**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 04 02:59:57 2009
Apr 04 03:02:42 <DocScrutinizer> mmontour: anyway what FSO is doing right now on my tweaked rootfs here (uSD-gsmflash-image) is NOT letting it drain to 98%. It just disables charging for 30sec every hour or two (at least that's what powerbutton LED is telling me)
Apr 04 03:09:22 <DocScrutinizer> mmontour: "max lifetime option" isn't actually my idea. I heard of (sony?) laptops that provide it, keeping bat charge at some 80% all the time (while powered externaly of course ;)
Apr 04 03:11:58 <DocScrutinizer> recommendations for storing LiIon are: "discharge to 75%, then store in frige at above 0°C in a bag preferably with some silicagel-bag)
Apr 04 03:12:38 <raster> mmmmm
Apr 04 03:12:40 <raster> silica gel
Apr 04 03:12:42 <raster> yum
Apr 04 03:12:47 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Apr 04 03:12:52 <raster> ok
Apr 04 03:13:00 <raster> now.. where is a good linux bootloader... for CE
Apr 04 03:13:18 <DocScrutinizer> raster: best of the asian snack bags ? ;)
Apr 04 03:14:10 <mmontour> My laptop is an iBook G4. I can't find any software way to disable charging when external power is connected. It might be possible to do it in hardware
Apr 04 03:15:33 <mmontour> My FR shows a blue LED most of the time. I think that means it's not charging, but I haven't been watching it closely
Apr 04 03:16:25 <DocScrutinizer> mine is "flashing" blue, then back to orange
Apr 04 03:17:01 <mmontour> Mine's solid blue. Dunno what flashing means
Apr 04 03:17:18 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  hahaha
Apr 04 03:17:19 <DocScrutinizer> blue periods extend a little when modem is off
Apr 04 03:17:48 <DocScrutinizer> flashing means some 30sec
Apr 04 03:18:04 <DocScrutinizer> then 2h of orange
Apr 04 04:26:36 <user1> hello guys
Apr 04 04:26:41 <user1> I need fast help
Apr 04 04:27:06 <KenYoung> user1, What help do you need?
Apr 04 04:28:10 <user1> I wanna install Debian on my FR, but it need buy miniSD card, and in shop they said me that some phone do not use for example miniSD more than 1GB and it depends of speed, so 
Apr 04 04:28:38 <user1> what about speed and capacity?
Apr 04 04:28:55 <KenYoung> user1, The Freerunner takes a *micro* SD card, not a miniSD.
Apr 04 04:29:29 <KenYoung> user1, The wiki pages have lists of microSD cards people have gotten to work on the Freerunner.
Apr 04 04:29:30 <user1> sorry, I mean microSD :)
Apr 04 04:30:34 <user1> oh, I see
Apr 04 04:30:38 <user1> pardon
Apr 04 04:30:54 <KenYoung> user1,  Check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards
Apr 04 04:32:22 <user1> I just found it, but do not know still wich is the best for me, it is some addition informations for me as u-boot
Apr 04 04:33:51 <KenYoung> user1, For what it's worth, I've been using two 8 Gig Sandisk microSDs, and have had no problems.
Apr 04 04:36:29 <user1> but need I buy  	 u-boot 1.1.6  or that last one
Apr 04 04:37:27 <user1> maybe I would buy Kingston 8GB
Apr 04 04:44:35 <slaxxin> hows the april 3 shr unstable look?
Apr 04 04:44:57 <slaxxin> a new uimage maybe?
Apr 04 04:45:44 <slaxxin> r3.1   wth
Apr 04 05:17:10 <Lukas__> i have problem. when i connect neo with computer by usb it can't make connection and dmesg shows:hub 1-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2
Apr 04 05:17:13 <Lukas__> usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 28
Apr 04 05:17:15 <slaxxin> what happened doc?
Apr 04 05:17:34 <Lukas__> what is the problem
Apr 04 05:17:39 <Lukas__> ?
Apr 04 05:17:53 <slaxxin> is it a new os?
Apr 04 05:18:00 <slaxxin>   default os?
Apr 04 05:18:31 <Lukas__> slaxxin: you are talking to me?
Apr 04 05:19:21 <slaxxin> yea
Apr 04 05:19:32 <Lukas__> on neo?
Apr 04 05:19:34 <Lukas__> i have shr
Apr 04 05:20:11 <Lukas__> but i tried older wersions which usb connection works
Apr 04 05:20:51 <slaxxin> do u have the april 1 or 2   os of shr?
Apr 04 05:21:05 <Lukas__> yes
Apr 04 05:21:34 <slaxxin> well they are broken
Apr 04 05:21:54 <slaxxin> i just installed todays to check it
Apr 04 05:21:57 <Lukas__> really?
Apr 04 05:22:20 <Lukas__> you have the same?
Apr 04 05:22:27 <slaxxin> looks like  there are 6-7 settings icons
Apr 04 05:22:48 <slaxxin> no i have todays
Apr 04 05:23:16 <slaxxin> when it boots i will tell u if usb works
Apr 04 05:23:30 <Lukas__> ok
Apr 04 05:24:01 <slaxxin> otherwise its the 03252009 image that works
Apr 04 05:24:20 <slaxxin> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/?C=M;O=D
Apr 04 05:26:16 <slaxxin> usb networking works
Apr 04 05:27:14 <Lukas__> ok. now i installing OM2008.12
Apr 04 05:28:03 <Lukas__> slaxxin:did you upgrade kernel?
Apr 04 05:28:31 <Lukas__> when y installed shr?
Apr 04 05:29:40 <slaxxin> theres a r-3.1 kernel that i used
Apr 04 05:32:20 <Lukas__> neo is flashing- this mean that neo hardware is ok
Apr 04 05:40:54 <Linkas> slaxxin:now works
Apr 04 05:41:27 <Linkas> the newest hernel from shr-unstable is guilty
Apr 04 05:41:34 <Linkas> kernel*
Apr 04 05:47:51 <slaxxin> dont think so
Apr 04 05:48:14 <slaxxin> is it r-4?
Apr 04 05:49:43 <Linkas> i don't know it is uImage-2.6.28-oe1+gitr119778+9c4451ff31b937a478f3d3eabef30b71cbe12b12-r3.1-om-gta02.bin
Apr 04 05:51:22 <mwester> did you reboot?  The usb network connection never works until the second boot.
Apr 04 05:52:01 <Linkas> i rebot it twice at least
Apr 04 06:20:01 <Psi> does anyone know how elementray-alarm works?
Apr 04 06:21:04 <Psi> i turned it on and now cant get it off, i dont see any entry in crontab so dunno how its alarming
Apr 04 07:06:44 <gmzhuo> anybody can help me with a2dp ?
Apr 04 07:31:31 <Inc_Vega1> kuku
Apr 04 07:31:33 <Inc_Vega1> Hi all
Apr 04 07:40:11 <Psi> is there an updated way to switch to qvga on gta01? the command in the wiki doesnt work
Apr 04 08:05:29 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 04 08:06:05 <beer_> hi
Apr 04 08:29:21 <munga> hello, I'm curious to use gsm cell information to get a fix with my gps. Is there a publicly available db that I can download ?
Apr 04 08:29:59 <munga> atm I've just seen a service that if you send them the cellid they will send you back the coordinates...
Apr 04 08:30:17 <munga> but I don't like the idea of letting somebody else know where I am all the time.
Apr 04 08:30:42 <munga> (I know my gsm provider already has this info...)
Apr 04 08:31:38 <dns53> i think they are trying to build up a database that you will be able to store on your phone and not contact anyone just get the aprox location from what cell towers you are on
Apr 04 08:31:55 <munga> !! opencellid !!
Apr 04 08:32:55 <Inc_Vega1> :)
Apr 04 08:33:00 <dns53> well i've been submitting to cellhunter, on the mailing list they brought up merging data
Apr 04 08:39:04 <beer_>  is there a nice kde tool sync my kontacts with my contacts on my Openmoko (running fyp)
Apr 04 08:44:17 <munga> ok, then I can get the cellhunter db... how do I feed gpsd with these info ? Is there a page where I can learn ?
Apr 04 08:45:03 <ndnihil> virtual serial port, and translate it to NMEA data
Apr 04 08:47:44 <munga> ok, I see, like if the coordinates were coming from a real satellite.
Apr 04 08:47:54 <ndnihil> or several real satellites
Apr 04 08:48:35 <munga> but this is not integrated at the moment with any existing sw ...
Apr 04 08:48:44 <SpeedEvil> what's wrong with the GPS?
Apr 04 08:48:46 <ndnihil> not that I'm aware of
Apr 04 08:48:55 <ndnihil> gps takes a while to get a fix
Apr 04 08:49:05 <SpeedEvil> ~30s it should be
Apr 04 08:49:10 <munga> I would expect a component of frameworkd should take care of this task
Apr 04 08:49:30 <ndnihil> you're looking at modding gpsd, not frameworkd
Apr 04 08:50:08 <ndnihil> have it poll the cellid source while it waits for gps fix
Apr 04 08:50:08 <munga> well, I need to get the cellid from the gsm and the feed gpsd 
Apr 04 08:50:11 <SpeedEvil> er - no
Apr 04 08:50:21 <SpeedEvil> you're looking at setting up GPSd to take input from another GPS
Apr 04 08:50:23 <ndnihil> then switch to the gps source
Apr 04 08:50:29 <SpeedEvil> In addition to this one
Apr 04 08:50:47 <ndnihil> speed: clients choose a single source no?
Apr 04 08:51:04 <SpeedEvil> I thought gpsd could pick between
Apr 04 08:51:12 <ndnihil> it's done with at commands
Apr 04 08:51:14 <SpeedEvil> I've never really gone into it that deeply
Apr 04 08:51:16 <ndnihil> s/at/AT/
Apr 04 08:51:17 <apt> ndnihil meant: it's done with AT commands
Apr 04 08:51:19 <munga> but as you said, if I feed gpsd via a serial connection this operation should be transparent ...
Apr 04 08:51:20 * ndnihil stabs apt
Apr 04 08:51:32 <SpeedEvil> you talk to gpsd with at commands?
Apr 04 08:51:39 <ndnihil> if you mod gpsd to handle the switching, it'll be seamless to client programs
Apr 04 08:51:58 <SpeedEvil> But the cell-site may be 10Km away of course, so there is that.
Apr 04 08:52:01 <ndnihil> speed: sorry, not AT commands, but similar text string commands
Apr 04 08:52:07 <munga> I undestand the bit about switching now...
Apr 04 08:52:30 <ndnihil> on your gta, telnet localhost 2947
Apr 04 08:52:59 <ndnihil> send it an 'r'
Apr 04 08:53:08 <ndnihil> and it will dump out raw data at intervals
Apr 04 08:53:23 <ndnihil> 'i' selects/displays the source
Apr 04 08:54:05 <ndnihil> http://gpsd.berlios.de/NMEA.txt
Apr 04 08:54:09 <ndnihil> ^a good read
Apr 04 08:54:22 <munga> maybe with gypsy ? (reading)
Apr 04 08:55:02 <SpeedEvil> You'd want to send GPGGA sentances with good fixes, but only 1 sat, and very high HDOP
Apr 04 08:55:10 <dns53> gypsy api is provided with fso-gpsd
Apr 04 08:55:34 <SpeedEvil> And then teach gpsd to pick the source in the last 10 seconds with the best HDOP and satellites perhaps
Apr 04 08:55:50 <SpeedEvil> Or something similar
Apr 04 08:56:00 <ndnihil> yep
Apr 04 08:56:09 <SpeedEvil> cell-sites can be 15km away from you in some terrain
Apr 04 08:56:09 <ndnihil> no fuss on the client end
Apr 04 08:56:36 <SpeedEvil> so you really want to only look at it after a few minutes even if you lose GPS
Apr 04 08:57:33 <munga> I've seen on commercial phone a big circle appearing on you position when the data is taken from a gsm cell rather then a satellite to signal that you could be anywhere aound that area...
Apr 04 08:57:38 <ndnihil> if you're out in the sticks like that, you've got the extra minute to spare to wait for gps fix, and you've got open sky for clean gps signal
Apr 04 09:04:19 <Psi> anyone know the current command to get gta01 to qvga and back? wiki one doesnt work any more, too old i think
Apr 04 09:05:03 <Psi> in shr i should add
Apr 04 09:05:11 <SpeedEvil> Psi: been a while since I tried it - ages.
Apr 04 09:05:43 <Psi> year
Apr 04 09:05:49 <Psi> *yeah
Apr 04 09:29:42 <munga> coming back to the gps problem. the story goes like : gps -> ogpsd -> fso-gpsd -> tangogps ... your suggestion before was to modify ogpsd to handle a second "fake" device to use the famous cellid database. Am I correct or still lost in space ?
Apr 04 09:30:46 <ndnihil> it goes: serial device-> (fso-)gpsd-> client(tango/navit/etc..)
Apr 04 09:32:11 <ndnihil> and yes, modify gpsd to read from both the cellid source (virtual serial port), and from the normal GPS source (/dev/ttySAC1 on the gta03), and pass the cellid source to the client while waiting for gps fix, and once the fix is obtained, switch to the gps source
Apr 04 09:32:42 <munga> http://kerneltrap.org/index.php?q=mailarchive/openmoko-community/2008/9/24/3395094
Apr 04 09:33:21 <munga> this is actually the old design ...
Apr 04 09:33:24 <munga> ?
Apr 04 09:33:50 <ndnihil> that link says nothing useful
Apr 04 09:34:16 <ndnihil> oh, expand the quotes...
Apr 04 09:34:36 <ndnihil> dont know what they're referring to
Apr 04 09:34:56 <munga> different distr use different subsytems  it seems ...
Apr 04 09:35:14 <ndnihil> every gps I've used under linux went either: 
Apr 04 09:35:22 <ndnihil> serial device-> gpsd-> client
Apr 04 09:35:26 <ndnihil> or
Apr 04 09:35:30 <ndnihil> serial device-> client
Apr 04 09:35:42 <munga> then ogpsd ?
Apr 04 09:35:47 <ndnihil> never heard of it
Apr 04 09:35:53 <ndnihil> probably just another implementation of gpsd
Apr 04 09:35:55 <munga> I'm missing why this brick in in frameworkd
Apr 04 09:36:15 <munga> nope, I think it's actually a kind of multiplexer...
Apr 04 09:36:18 <ndnihil> perhaps the fso-gpsd passes info to dbus/frameworkd as well as clients
Apr 04 09:36:36 <ndnihil> haven't looked at it in depth
Apr 04 09:38:05 <ndnihil> I'm running SHR testing btw
Apr 04 09:38:13 <Q-Master> Hi All!
Apr 04 09:38:17 <ndnihil> hi q
Apr 04 09:38:22 <ostehovel1> Hi Q-Master
Apr 04 09:38:49 <munga> I'm using SHR unstable
Apr 04 09:39:07 <Q-Master> Tried a FSO on my neo, somehow it was unable to connect to cell network
Apr 04 09:39:40 <ndnihil> q: I had odd gsm issues until I upgraded the firmware
Apr 04 09:40:13 <Q-Master> OM2008.12 and android works well, except that in android the lengh of the call is ~10sec
Apr 04 09:40:26 <Q-Master> ndnihil: I have the latest one
Apr 04 09:40:31 <ndnihil> moko11?
Apr 04 09:40:34 <Q-Master> yep
Apr 04 09:40:40 <ndnihil> I went from moko9 to 11
Apr 04 09:40:48 <ndnihil> cleaned things up nicely
Apr 04 09:43:33 <Q-Master> BTW, can paroli store contacts in some db, but not in sim-card?
Apr 04 09:43:47 <ndnihil> havent tried paroli
Apr 04 11:31:36 <plhardy> Hi all
Apr 04 11:32:25 <plhardy> i installed android on a internal micro sd, i works but when i want to get new apps it complains about missing SD card
Apr 04 11:33:05 <plhardy> i mount /sdcard on a vfat partition of the micro sd and i can see content of it, but it doesn't ssems to be detected by android
Apr 04 11:56:59 <Bish> where is my eth0 freaking!
Apr 04 11:58:30 <Bish> ou shit.. openmoko has stopped existing?
Apr 04 11:58:54 <Defiant> ?
Apr 04 11:59:17 <Defiant> Bish: wlan module loaded? Wlan interface powered?
Apr 04 11:59:23 <serdar1> hi
Apr 04 11:59:32 <Bish> Defiant: hm downloaded shr testing image, the newest
Apr 04 11:59:41 <max_posedon> Bish, don't forget do magic reboot
Apr 04 11:59:47 <max_posedon> 1st reboot is must
Apr 04 11:59:48 <Bish> max_posedon: i did
Apr 04 11:59:57 <serdar1> oh that's Bish
Apr 04 12:00:01 <Bish> yeah i hae done it already
Apr 04 12:00:08 <Bish> serdar1: Hi :
Apr 04 12:00:14 <Defiant> don't know about SHR, but on Debian eth0 doesn't exist until wlan is powered on
Apr 04 12:00:19 <max_posedon> Bish, do't you forgot flash new kernel also?
Apr 04 12:00:30 <Bish> max_posedon: no
Apr 04 12:00:37 <Bish> Defiant: until wlan is powered on?
Apr 04 12:00:57 <badcloud> Bish, openmoko not existing???
Apr 04 12:01:04 <Bish> @ url
Apr 04 12:01:09 <Bish> @ topic
Apr 04 12:01:21 <badcloud> thanks
Apr 04 12:02:00 <Defiant> aah the golem.de one
Apr 04 12:02:28 <badcloud> fuck that sucks
Apr 04 12:03:05 <Defiant> badcloud: read the community ML
Apr 04 12:03:27 <badcloud> Defiant, community what?
Apr 04 12:03:29 <Bish> thats fucking bad.
Apr 04 12:03:30 <Defiant> start here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-April/044915.html
Apr 04 12:03:39 <Defiant> MailingList
Apr 04 12:03:40 <Bish> i bought gta02 for much money :D and now its gone
Apr 04 12:03:52 <badcloud> ah
Apr 04 12:04:20 <Defiant> Bish: The GTA02 you bought is gone?
Apr 04 12:05:27 <badcloud> has anyone come by this in shr?: not getting sms's received while the device was previously powered off
Apr 04 12:05:43 <Bish> Defiant: no... openmoko inc is gone
Apr 04 12:05:48 <Bish> there will be no gta03
Apr 04 12:05:49 <Bish> that sux
Apr 04 12:06:29 <badcloud> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Apr 04 12:07:20 <Defiant> Bish: I don't find it that bad if they will fix the 02
Apr 04 12:08:00 <Bish> what do u mean by saying fix?
Apr 04 12:08:01 <badcloud> what's still to fix, I'm curious, Defiant?
Apr 04 12:08:40 <Defiant> sorry, can't give a complete list, but something like glamo driver, buzz problem
Apr 04 12:09:13 <badcloud> I see
Apr 04 12:09:21 <badcloud> never experienced the buzz thing
Apr 04 12:09:33 <badcloud> how can I check the glamo driver?
Apr 04 12:10:42 <lindi-> badcloud: hmm? we just need to improve it a bit
Apr 04 12:13:28 <azaghal> Hm... What would be the best replacement battery? Would it be possible to obtain one that's 100% compatible with Freerunner?
Apr 04 12:13:31 <badcloud> ok, nevermind *blushes*
Apr 04 12:13:54 <lindi-> azaghal: from openmoko inc
Apr 04 12:13:57 <azaghal> I've seen the wiki, but it's all "Charge info reported" :)
Apr 04 12:14:11 <lindi-> actually if openmoko the company is going down we need to ensure we have enough spare parts :)
Apr 04 12:14:17 <azaghal> lindi-: Are they still selling them? (referring to the site listed in topic)
Apr 04 12:14:25 <azaghal> Yeah :)
Apr 04 12:14:36 <SpeedEvil> Reportedly it's much of the software side that's been sacked
Apr 04 12:14:50 <SpeedEvil> so, what that means for hardware is unclear
Apr 04 12:14:51 <azaghal> Damn, and what a pitty. I just don't trust Google.
Apr 04 12:15:25 <SpeedEvil> http://openmoko.com/opportunities-careers.html
Apr 04 12:16:44 <saracen> The neo now cheaper than ever? I should have waited one more week before buying.
Apr 04 12:16:46 <badcloud> azaghal, I don't think anyone of us does :)
Apr 04 12:16:48 <raster> i doubt that page is current or accurately reflects their current state of hiring
Apr 04 12:16:49 <raster> :)
Apr 04 12:17:00 <badcloud> how much cheaper? I got mine for 300 usd
Apr 04 12:17:06 <SpeedEvil> raster: Something is wrong on the internet! 
Apr 04 12:17:09 <azaghal> raster: lol
Apr 04 12:17:10 <SpeedEvil> Oh Noes!
Apr 04 12:17:32 <saracen> badcloud: Well, it's going for 299usd, so I dont think you'll mind :P
Apr 04 12:17:50 * SpeedEvil stabs the US-UK exchange rate
Apr 04 12:18:07 <SpeedEvil> 270 quid or so - once taxes hit.
Apr 04 12:18:14 <saracen> Yeah. I'm in the UK, bought mine from germany. Think it works out to about 410 USD
Apr 04 12:18:19 <azaghal> Hrm... Anyone ever ordered a battery only from OpenMoko?
Apr 04 12:18:20 <serdar1> http://openmoko.com/job-06.html that's sounds designed for me in the future :D
Apr 04 12:18:27 <Defiant> saracen: pulster?
Apr 04 12:18:31 <saracen> Defiant: Yeah
Apr 04 12:18:33 <saracen> Err
Apr 04 12:18:34 <saracen> wait
Apr 04 12:18:35 <saracen> no
Apr 04 12:18:41 <saracen> I couldnt get it from pulster, I wanted to
Apr 04 12:18:50 <raster> SpeedEvil: never! the internet is always correct!
Apr 04 12:18:50 <serdar1> I got it from pulster
Apr 04 12:18:53 <Defiant> pulster ist 250 Eur
Apr 04 12:18:58 <saracen> I got mine from Golden Delicious
Apr 04 12:19:13 <serdar1> Defiant: 249 EUR
Apr 04 12:19:33 <Defiant> serdar1: I always round that up. 1.99 is also 2 for me
Apr 04 12:19:34 <saracen> I couldnt get my bank to do the correct transfer (otherwise the fee was like 20 pound). It's a shame, as afterwards the guy that runs it said we could split the cost of a paypal transfer
Apr 04 12:19:37 <serdar1> 229 EUR if you order 10 iirc
Apr 04 12:19:42 <saracen> but I'd already bought it from Golden Del.
Apr 04 12:20:00 <serdar1> Defiant: but this isn't 0.01 EUR :P
Apr 04 12:20:26 <Defiant> serdar1: all relative
Apr 04 12:21:02 <Defiant> serdar1: Isn't it ore like 155 Eur anyway when adding shipping cost
Apr 04 12:21:18 <SpeedEvil> On spare parts.
Apr 04 12:21:24 <SpeedEvil> Going to the US openmoko store.
Apr 04 12:21:34 <SpeedEvil> The spares pack - and adding 999 to my basket
Apr 04 12:21:38 <azaghal> Hm... I might purchase debug board, and a battery or two :)
Apr 04 12:21:39 <SpeedEvil> shows that there are 177 left
Apr 04 12:21:50 <azaghal> Oh, noes!
Apr 04 12:21:56 <SpeedEvil> has 2 bats, headset, and pouch
Apr 04 12:22:27 <SpeedEvil> for $49
Apr 04 12:23:05 <SpeedEvil> and 28 solo batteries
Apr 04 12:23:12 <ndnihil>     *    177 x Spares Pack & Accessories - Spares Pack (Spares Pack )
Apr 04 12:23:13 <ndnihil> $8,673.00 USD 
Apr 04 12:23:25 <azaghal> rofl
Apr 04 12:23:26 <serdar1> hmm
Apr 04 12:23:56 <azaghal> Hm... Luckily I'll be coming over to USA in April, hopefully I can get one spares pack and two styluses ;0
Apr 04 12:23:59 <azaghal> *;)
Apr 04 12:24:00 <zedstar> hmm 299 from US is cheaper than european
Apr 04 12:24:06 <zedstar> opps
Apr 04 12:24:49 <SpeedEvil> and 116 850MHz FRs
Apr 04 12:25:02 <SpeedEvil> anyone want to lend me $35242.60?
Apr 04 12:25:04 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 04 12:25:37 <SpeedEvil> 1000% returns, at $1/mo.
Apr 04 12:25:43 <azaghal> Can anyone tell me how long they take to deliver it?
Apr 04 12:26:01 <azaghal> SpeedEvil: I'll give you role-played money :)
Apr 04 12:26:04 <SpeedEvil> Depends if they've sacked the packing monkeys.
Apr 04 12:27:37 <azaghal> Heheh
Apr 04 12:27:39 <zedstar> getting a US model in the UK shouldnt be much a probem right? most are 1800?
Apr 04 12:28:21 <azaghal> zedstar: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml - check this?
Apr 04 12:28:45 <azaghal> Basically, I just need 2-3 batteries -.-
Apr 04 12:28:55 <azaghal> Then I can run GPS for ~6-7 hours :)
Apr 04 12:29:32 <zedstar> the ac adapter u get does it have swapable plug pins in the pack?
Apr 04 12:31:37 <zedstar> and is it dual voltage?
Apr 04 12:34:49 * SpeedEvil got no adaptor.
Apr 04 12:35:05 <zedstar> seems to be dual voltage
Apr 04 12:35:17 <azaghal> zedstar: It says so on my adapter.
Apr 04 12:35:19 * zedstar didnt get one with the 1973 either
Apr 04 12:35:24 <azaghal> 100-240V
Apr 04 12:36:38 <zedstar> 200 quid is pretty good value even if the exchange rate is crap
Apr 04 12:36:57 <SpeedEvil> not 200
Apr 04 12:37:24 <serdar1> where's panicking If you want to kick his ass?
Apr 04 12:37:37 <zedstar> speedevil how u working it out?
Apr 04 12:37:37 <SpeedEvil> 201 - exchange rate alone
Apr 04 12:37:54 <SpeedEvil> 245 - import duty and VAT
Apr 04 12:38:03 <SpeedEvil> 280 or so inc shipping
Apr 04 12:38:27 <zedstar> i think i need to pay 200 plus local tax in US as im gonna ship it to someone in NY who can bring it to me
Apr 04 12:38:54 <zedstar> of course i would declare and pay import tax on it ;)
Apr 04 12:38:57 <badcloud> that's what I did :)
Apr 04 12:39:10 <zedstar> honest your magesty!
Apr 04 12:41:04 <zedstar> anyone know how long a online order takes to ship from direct store on average?
Apr 04 12:41:22 <SpeedEvil> It used to take weeks
Apr 04 12:41:24 <azaghal> Has anyone had any problems with the touchscreen, btw?
Apr 04 12:41:36 <SpeedEvil> but it had gotten better recently - to a week or so IIRC
Apr 04 12:42:38 <zedstar> hmm i would need it in about 10 days else my courier wont be there anymore.....risky!
Apr 04 12:43:21 <azaghal> zedstar: Heck, I'll order it to a hotel where couple of my collegues are atm :)
Apr 04 12:43:45 <zedstar> yeh probably worth the gamble
Apr 04 13:00:18 <hipitihop> I'm trying to follow the wiki instructions for flashing moko11 gsm from image, can someone help me with dding to my uSD
Apr 04 13:01:51 <hipitihop> the image readme says NO partion. When I insreted the card on pc, ubuntu mounted as /dev/sdf1 & /dev/sdf2 where should I 'dd' the image to ?
Apr 04 13:02:22 <hipitihop> I have umounted both already
Apr 04 13:04:46 <Dave> Hippityhop!
Apr 04 13:05:07 <saracen> hipitihop: I'd say /dev/sdf - Without any appended numbers, as thats when you're accessing the partitions.
Apr 04 13:07:18 <hipitihop> Dave: so in my case I "of=/dev/sdf" ??
Apr 04 13:08:01 <serdar1> does someone know what kind of other partition do I need for the new releases of android for openmoko?
Apr 04 13:08:06 <Dave> Oh man, that reminds me...
Apr 04 13:08:13 <Dave> I should update all my mokos to the latest :D
Apr 04 13:08:30 <Dave> I only did the moko10/11 upgrade on two phones
Apr 04 13:08:59 <azaghal> Dave: What's useful in the upgrade?
Apr 04 13:09:00 <saracen> How many phones do you own? ;x
Apr 04 13:09:22 <hipitihop> how long does the dd normaly take ?
Apr 04 13:10:08 <Dave> uhh, hopefully not long
Apr 04 13:10:15 <Dave> azaghal, fixes a bug or two
Apr 04 13:11:36 <hipitihop> ok, it's come back so seems to have copied something to somewhere ;-) ... now how do I flush the uSD
Apr 04 13:11:54 <azaghal> Dave: Anything _really_ useful? Less power consumed etc?
Apr 04 13:11:54 <hipitihop> <googles>
Apr 04 13:12:18 <Dave> uhh, phone calls work better now?
Apr 04 13:12:25 <Dave> isn't there a changelog somewhere? :)
Apr 04 13:12:29 <serdar1> how many mokos do you have? oO""
Apr 04 13:13:00 <azaghal> Dave: It is, but not much in it.
Apr 04 13:13:12 <azaghal> Dave: For that record, how do I identify what version I have on it? :/
Apr 04 13:13:18 <serdar1> hm what is moko11 anyway?
Apr 04 13:13:32 <badcloud> gsm firmware upgrade
Apr 04 13:14:10 <serdar1> how can I see which I have?
Apr 04 13:14:22 <Dave> What version you're currently using, or what version you're upgrading to?
Apr 04 13:14:27 <Dave> heh
Apr 04 13:14:38 <Dave> I think it can be identified via AT commands?
Apr 04 13:15:35 <serdar1> hmm my android says firmware-version 1.5 that's not the right firmware I guess
Apr 04 13:15:49 <Dave> Guess not :P
Apr 04 13:16:39 <hipitihop> what command do I need to flush the uSD car before I pull it out ? sorry for these noob questions
Apr 04 13:17:13 <azaghal> hipitihop: sync
Apr 04 13:17:17 <azaghal> I think.
Apr 04 13:17:53 <azaghal> Not sure if sync affects low-level copying, though.
Apr 04 13:18:29 <Dave> terve
Apr 04 13:18:54 <serdar1> where do I get this information about the gsm firmware?
Apr 04 13:19:15 <Dave> either wiki, or joerg's page ^^
Apr 04 13:19:46 <serdar1> I mean which ones is installed here, but I try on the wiki
Apr 04 13:20:06 <DocScrutinizer> basically both, depending on topic
Apr 04 13:20:24 <Dave> JOERG :D
Apr 04 13:20:44 <DocScrutinizer> serdar1: installed here??
Apr 04 13:21:13 <DocScrutinizer> moin Dave 
Apr 04 13:21:22 <serdar1> DocScrutinizer: I mean the firmware on my moko.
Apr 04 13:21:51 <DocScrutinizer> see wikipage to get version string
Apr 04 13:23:18 <badcloud> hey, Dave
Apr 04 13:23:26 <DocScrutinizer> though it's maybe more simple to use mickeyterm instead of those clumsy cat<tty etc cmds, to send the ATcmd to query version
Apr 04 13:23:42 <azaghal> serdar1: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM_network_registration (there's an AT command listed there)
Apr 04 13:23:50 <badcloud> have you experienced any missed sms's which were sent to the device while it was off?
Apr 04 13:23:54 <badcloud> or anyone for that matter
Apr 04 13:24:15 <azaghal> serdar1: There's also fso-specifis command there :)
Apr 04 13:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> serdar1: but honestly, you're probably not interested in actual version. I5äs not moko11 anyway, and flashing is really easy now to update to 11 which is recommended anyway
Apr 04 13:25:57 <serdar1> I don't need to know which version I have before flashing?
Apr 04 13:26:15 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Apr 04 13:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> create a uSD with "my" image, boot it and done
Apr 04 13:27:45 <DocScrutinizer> ((hehe, the andy-memoriam apostrophies around "my")
Apr 04 13:29:32 <badcloud> ha, Doc...
Apr 04 13:31:09 <DocScrutinizer> "doc" no buzzword. "joerg", "docsrutinizer" and "doc:" ate though. Hi badcloud ! :)
Apr 04 13:31:31 <DocScrutinizer> s/ate/are/
Apr 04 13:31:32 <apt> DocScrutinizer meant: "doc" no buzzword. "joerg", "docsrutinizer" and "doc:" are though. Hi badcloud ! :)
Apr 04 13:31:57 <hipitihop> hurah, gsm firmware upgrade appears to have worked
Apr 04 13:32:16 <DocScrutinizer> sure, why not :)
Apr 04 13:32:35 <hipitihop> :-) now, time to try a new distro while we are at it
Apr 04 13:32:57 <DocScrutinizer> yeah! :-))
Apr 04 13:34:37 <serdar1> I am interested in android and qt-extended-improved, bot there is no improve right now :(
Apr 04 13:35:18 <DocScrutinizer> ~android
Apr 04 13:35:19 <apt> android is, like, an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible
Apr 04 13:35:49 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Apr 04 13:36:31 <DocScrutinizer> ~android is not anything you want to install on your neo
Apr 04 13:36:32 <apt> ...but android is already something else...
Apr 04 13:36:48 <DocScrutinizer> apt, i know 
Apr 04 13:36:49 <apt> Smart ass
Apr 04 13:37:17 <serdar1> I use android right now, because the otheres are not improved like that :/
Apr 04 13:37:23 <hipitihop> is qt=extended-improved on .28 kernel already ?
Apr 04 13:37:44 <serdar1> I couldn't compile it
Apr 04 13:37:55 <badcloud> no wifi on latest shr-unstable????
Apr 04 13:38:01 <DocScrutinizer> Serdar: most ppl here seem to like SHR better
Apr 04 13:38:10 <serdar1> not Serdar, he is on work ;)
Apr 04 13:38:41 <DocScrutinizer> on saturdays?? ;D
Apr 04 13:38:46 <hipitihop> I would like something like extended but running on fso or x
Apr 04 13:38:52 <hipitihop> I think
Apr 04 13:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> poor Serdar 
Apr 04 13:39:05 <serdar1> DocScrutinizer: it'S not that I am against shr, but it's not like, that's much improved like android
Apr 04 13:39:12 <hipitihop> just want more then the standard qt does, so I can start do fiddle and maybe even dev something
Apr 04 13:39:15 <serdar1> and I hate illume
Apr 04 13:39:28 <azaghal> I liked the old GTK stack the most so far (the one on hackable:1). SHR is very nice as well, but scrolling the application list is a bit slow on it.
Apr 04 13:39:35 <serdar1> DocScrutinizer: I must work till 20 p.m.
Apr 04 13:39:36 <DocScrutinizer> whatever you like
Apr 04 13:39:40 <serdar1> remeaining 4h
Apr 04 13:39:40 <hipitihop> so how ready is the curretn android on the neo ?
Apr 04 13:40:35 <serdar1> hipitihop: I am able to phone, but I never tested other things, like installing an application
Apr 04 13:40:37 * hipitihop scrambles back to wiki so he stops asking anoying questions
Apr 04 13:41:02 <Q-Master> hipitihop: which i've installed is not able to phone. 8(
Apr 04 13:41:07 <serdar1> hipitihop: I guess, that wifi needs some improvement
Apr 04 13:41:17 <Q-Master> serdar1: which one have you installed?
Apr 04 13:41:19 <serdar1> Q-Master: which version do you have?
Apr 04 13:41:36 <hipitihop> is the paroli stuff worth looking at yet ?
Apr 04 13:41:43 <serdar1> Q-Master: the latest here http://serdar-dere.net/panicking
Apr 04 13:42:05 * DocScrutinizer wants a real linux on his FR if he ever baught one. Not some crippled java-only pseudo-linux
Apr 04 13:42:12 <serdar1> the cupcake
Apr 04 13:42:43 <serdar1> DocScrutinizer: you want gentoo, I guess :)
Apr 04 13:42:55 <Q-Master> serdar1: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/ this one
Apr 04 13:43:04 <serdar1> what's the idea of taking some parts of qt-extended?
Apr 04 13:43:05 <DocScrutinizer> muahahaaa. yeah native gentoo XD
Apr 04 13:43:21 <serdar1> Q-Master: cupcake?
Apr 04 13:43:26 <Q-Master> yep
Apr 04 13:43:31 <serdar1> it works here
Apr 04 13:43:40 <Q-Master> serdar1: 17th kernel?
Apr 04 13:43:47 <serdar1> yes
Apr 04 13:43:57 <serdar1> but it worked with 16 too
Apr 04 13:44:06 <hipitihop> so if I was to persist with qt-extended for now, where is the latest flash image with all patches and which kernel ?
Apr 04 13:44:28 <hipitihop> I mean qt-extended-improved
Apr 04 13:44:29 <serdar1> hipitihop: I guess there is no one you need to compile your own
Apr 04 13:44:46 <serdar1> http://git.karadog.net/qt-extended-improved.git
Apr 04 13:45:05 <hipitihop> serdar1: eek, never done that, I thought someone had built some
Apr 04 13:45:09 <Q-Master> serdar1: seems that mine is older
Apr 04 13:46:30 <hipitihop> does qt-extended-improved have a channel ?
Apr 04 13:46:56 <azaghal> Gentoo on Neo would be just plain torture :)
Apr 04 13:47:14 <azaghal> (I'm using Gentoo on my desktop, mind you, so I _do_ like it :)
Apr 04 13:48:43 <badcloud> how's debian for the fr?
Apr 04 13:49:01 <lindi-> badcloud: works
Apr 04 13:49:42 <hipitihop> I know android is considerbaly closed and java based garbage, and I knoq there are plenty of negatives again qt-extended but if that was the choice, which would it be for most reliable/functional
Apr 04 13:49:58 <azaghal> Is wmiconfig enable/disable wifi equivalent to powering it on/off?
Apr 04 13:50:14 <badcloud> took me a reboot :P
Apr 04 13:50:15 <azaghal> badcloud: Go for the hackable:1
Apr 04 13:50:34 <azaghal> You could try fyp as well (no idea how good it is, never tried it).
Apr 04 13:50:35 <badcloud> ah, you were talking about debian, not wifi on shr...
Apr 04 13:51:05 <badcloud> azaghal, what draws me to debian would be the repos
Apr 04 13:51:13 <azaghal> Exactly :)
Apr 04 13:51:28 <azaghal> I think that Debian might prove to be the most  useful thing out there for FR.
Apr 04 13:51:30 <badcloud> so why hackable:1?
Apr 04 13:51:56 <azaghal> I think it's the most useful one so far.
Apr 04 13:52:00 <badcloud> question, how long will debian stay relevant to the FR?
Apr 04 13:52:02 <azaghal> Plain Debian's not usable as a phone.
Apr 04 13:52:10 <badcloud> support I mean
Apr 04 13:52:17 <badcloud> really? nuts
Apr 04 13:52:42 <azaghal> Can't answer that, to be honest. I guess you could ask the same about all distros :)
Apr 04 13:52:53 <badcloud> true
Apr 04 13:52:53 <azaghal> Keep in mind that Debian arm is independent from Neo.
Apr 04 13:52:58 <hipitihop> azaghal: are you saying hackable:1 is most usable phone ?
Apr 04 13:53:05 <lindi-> badcloud: why would it not be relevant?
Apr 04 13:53:16 <azaghal> hipitihop: Well, it looks to me that way atm.
Apr 04 13:53:32 <serdar1> azaghal: Crosscompile via gentoo is no problem
Apr 04 13:53:36 <azaghal> hipitihop: What I'd like to see is illume on Debian as well, though.
Apr 04 13:53:52 <hipitihop> azaghal: you have run qt-extended ?
Apr 04 13:53:54 <azaghal> serdar1: Yeah, but it can still be annoying for keeping everything linked together :)
Apr 04 13:53:54 <badcloud> I'm guessing the device will become obsolete earlier, is all
Apr 04 13:54:08 <azaghal> hipitihop: Yes, but it's just got, well, phone abilities :)
Apr 04 13:54:13 <badcloud> so support would dwindle
Apr 04 13:54:18 <serdar1> azaghal: that's right, but hey that's the flavor of gentoo :)
Apr 04 13:54:39 <azaghal> hipitihop: Actually, you're probably right, qt-extended is the most complete phone distro atm.
Apr 04 13:54:58 <azaghal> Me and illume had some nasty fight over non-latin chars, though -.-
Apr 04 13:55:07 <badcloud> me too
Apr 04 13:55:18 <azaghal> I made a keyboard layout for Serbian, thought "woohoo", then went "oh, damn"
Apr 04 13:55:29 <serdar1> I don't like illume :/
Apr 04 13:55:29 <badcloud> I hear that
Apr 04 13:55:36 <badcloud> me neither
Apr 04 13:55:53 <hipitihop> azaghal: I'm not trying to suggest it is, it is more a question. I bought a FR gta02 for my GF last Jul, she has been almost exclusively using qt and is still ready to sell it
Apr 04 13:55:54 <azaghal> What hackable:1 misses atm is good keyboard, though (uses matchbox), and a better replacement for neod.
Apr 04 13:55:55 <badcloud> but qt-extended always gave me weird call problems
Apr 04 13:56:20 <azaghal> hipitihop: Well, it's the most polished thing out there for simple calls/messages.
Apr 04 13:56:42 <azaghal> And I don't think you should let her sell it :)
Apr 04 13:56:43 <serdar1> I hope that where will be a fusion of qt-extended-improved and shr
Apr 04 13:56:48 <hipitihop> yep, doubled up sms, received calls going to handset speaker, etc, etc
Apr 04 13:56:57 <badcloud> that sounds about right, serdar
Apr 04 13:57:20 <serdar1> serdar1, Serdar is my nick at home, but I am at work now :/
Apr 04 13:57:27 <azaghal> hipitihop: It has issues? I didn't know that. I just tested it for a short while since it wasn't really hackable :)
Apr 04 13:58:19 <Q-Master> serdar1: do you have a vcard contacts on android?
Apr 04 13:58:46 <azaghal> Main problem of using FR as a phone is battery lifetime - but considering it can work for ~8 hours with brightness at 30% (and no working GPS/wifi, of course), I think it's actually good. The only thing that's needed is better power-management daemon.
Apr 04 13:59:12 <azaghal> And a good screen-locking mechanism (pressing a button is a must - touchscreen pressing is bad because of its sensitiveness :)
Apr 04 13:59:29 <hipitihop> azaghal: understand, it is not very hackable and yes it still has some issues. usabl yes, but far from a commercial phone
Apr 04 13:59:35 <azaghal> Combination of button press + screen press could be interesting as well (that Z-locking app is great)
Apr 04 14:00:43 <serdar1> nope, improting contacts don't work right now
Apr 04 14:00:51 <serdar1> importing
Apr 04 14:01:11 <hipitihop> azaghal: sms is posisble but a complete pain with current keyboards. takes forever to type something out
Apr 04 14:01:19 <serdar1> azaghal: android and qt-extended do have nice lockings, why not taking that from qt-extended?
Apr 04 14:02:22 <serdar1> the locking of android is much complex than that from qt-extended but both are nice
Apr 04 14:02:31 <hipitihop> ok, well thanks for your input all. time for bed here, my search for a good distro can resume tomorrow sometime
Apr 04 14:02:43 <azaghal> serdar1: Currently I'm in a gtk+ stack mood :)
Apr 04 14:02:58 * hipitihop waves goodnight to the residents and Dave
Apr 04 14:03:09 <azaghal> hipitihop: As for keyboard, I've been having some thought about imlpementing a transparent keyboard where you could see what's being typed below it.
Apr 04 14:03:12 <serdar1> azaghal: than try to import that thing from qt-extended to gtk :)
Apr 04 14:03:17 <azaghal> Heheh
Apr 04 14:03:17 <serdar1> goodnight hipitihop
Apr 04 14:03:29 <azaghal> serdar1: Ah, it's the key thing, right?
Apr 04 14:03:35 <serdar1> azaghal: right
Apr 04 14:03:43 <azaghal> hackable:1 has a similar screen locker actually.
Apr 04 14:03:46 <hipitihop> azaghal: yes I thought I saw something on the list regarding that but not sure if that was you
Apr 04 14:03:52 <serdar1> it's nice, I fall from my chair after seeing it, but it's moce
Apr 04 14:03:55 <serdar1> nice
Apr 04 14:03:57 <azaghal> hipitihop: I don't think I posted it on the list :)
Apr 04 14:04:10 <azaghal> hipitihop: Maybe mentioned it on some #hackable1 and here.
Apr 04 14:04:17 <azaghal> s/some//
Apr 04 14:04:18 <apt> azaghal meant: hipitihop: Maybe mentioned it on  #hackable1 and here.
Apr 04 14:04:21 <hipitihop> serdar1: seeing what ?
Apr 04 14:04:29 <azaghal> lol, nice bot.
Apr 04 14:04:38 <serdar1> that keylogger from qt-extended
Apr 04 14:04:43 <serdar1> locker
Apr 04 14:05:20 <azaghal> In addition to it, though, it should be needed to click the aux button (for example) to actually be able to light-up the touch-screen and move the key, I think.
Apr 04 14:05:22 <hipitihop> serdar1: yes that work well and looks nice
Apr 04 14:05:30 <azaghal> (so it wouldn't get activated from bumps in a pocket)
Apr 04 14:05:36 <serdar1> hipitihop: you know that from android too?
Apr 04 14:06:18 <hipitihop> serdar1: no have not loaded android yet, waiting for it to be at least as usable for phone, sms, suspend and alarms as qtextended
Apr 04 14:06:51 <serdar1> hipitihop: phone and sms works well, but the voice are too low
Apr 04 14:06:52 <Q-Master> serdar1: is android able to autosuspend after some timeout?
Apr 04 14:07:03 <serdar1> Q-Master: yes
Apr 04 14:07:07 <hipitihop> once those are rock solid, comes pim
Apr 04 14:07:15 <Q-Master> serdar1: and seems that calendar app is not starting here. 8(
Apr 04 14:07:37 * hipitihop waves goodnight a second time, this time for real
Apr 04 14:07:42 <azaghal> Nighty ;)
Apr 04 14:07:50 <serdar1> Q-Master: also here
Apr 04 14:07:51 <badcloud> night
Apr 04 14:07:58 <serdar1> night hipitihop
Apr 04 14:08:12 <azaghal> irssi proxy is funtastic thing - I love it when I can jump around my desktop and laptop computers :)
Apr 04 14:08:16 <Q-Master> serdar1: how to set this suspending? 
Apr 04 14:08:44 <serdar1> wait I need to change it to english again
Apr 04 14:09:30 <Dave> :P
Apr 04 14:11:02 <badcloud> the thing that kills me about shr is that it's *near* usable as a phone
Apr 04 14:11:23 <badcloud> I'd drop it like a stone if it was sub par in the phone dep
Apr 04 14:11:49 <azaghal> badcloud: Doesn't like non-latin chars, though :)
Apr 04 14:11:50 <badcloud> but it's really small things like sms sender phonebook name instead of full num
Apr 04 14:11:53 <badcloud> also
Apr 04 14:12:40 <Mononoke> I wonder, is it good to move from uboot to qi? if yes, how?
Apr 04 14:12:55 <badcloud> speed
Apr 04 14:13:02 <serdar1> Q-Master: hmm. I only find screen timeout
Apr 04 14:13:59 <badcloud> I'm gonna shove off
Apr 04 14:14:07 <badcloud> laterz all around peopls
Apr 04 14:20:15 <max_posedon> Hi! Have anobody succsess story with pidgin on neo, and displaying russian?
Apr 04 14:27:45 <serdar1> how far is fyp? it looked nice iirc but gsm was bad
Apr 04 14:28:27 <azaghal> fyp uses zhone, iirc?
Apr 04 14:29:11 <serdar1> lxde an zhone
Apr 04 14:32:58 <slaxxin> i used 3.18
Apr 04 14:34:05 <slaxxin> 04032008 shr unstable works
Apr 04 14:34:23 <slaxxin> 04032009*
Apr 04 14:34:33 <plhardy> i get one step further with android but it seems that sockets fro dowload just timeout after 30seconds what prevent downloading apps with some lags between packet sending
Apr 04 14:37:00 <serdar1> shr-unstable starts, but working is something else.
Apr 04 14:37:17 <slaxxin> what dont work for u?
Apr 04 14:37:32 <slaxxin> usb networking?
Apr 04 14:37:40 <serdar1> bluetooth and wifi for example
Apr 04 14:37:45 <serdar1> gps aswell
Apr 04 14:37:57 <serdar1> but these are problems in every distribution I know
Apr 04 14:38:08 <slaxxin> u must have the april 1-2 image?
Apr 04 14:38:35 <serdar1> nope, I compile the unstable sources my own.
Apr 04 14:38:39 <slaxxin> oo
Apr 04 14:38:47 <azaghal> I'd avoid April 1st images just in case :)
Apr 04 14:38:59 <serdar1> hehe
Apr 04 14:39:00 <shellevil> The joke is it's the only one with itunes
Apr 04 14:39:02 <slaxxin> 3rd works
Apr 04 14:39:42 <slaxxin> except it has 7 different settings icons on the desktop:)
Apr 04 14:40:34 <slaxxin> 03252009 works well
Apr 04 14:40:40 <serdar1> the unstable had some problems with obexftp it fixed now, but I told, that this fix is a bad workaround.
Apr 04 14:40:55 <slaxxin> ok
Apr 04 14:41:37 <serdar1> hmm buying Nikon D40 or not buying...
Apr 04 15:32:47 <azaghal> Ok... After apt-get dist-upgrade wireless stopped working on hackable :)
Apr 04 15:33:46 <Defiant> azaghal: is it powered on?
Apr 04 15:34:05 <azaghal> Defiant: Yep. Actually, it could be some wpa_supplicant problem.
Apr 04 15:34:34 <azaghal> I can scan, I'll try getting it up manually somehow.
Apr 04 15:35:00 <Defiant> never used wpa
Apr 04 15:36:20 <azaghal> Well, it's using /etc/network/interfaces, but not sure what it calls.
Apr 04 15:38:44 <serdar1> hmm
Apr 04 15:40:29 <imrehg> the interfaces should just call the wpa_supplicant, iwconfig, dhcpd (or some variant of thereof)
Apr 04 15:40:38 <imrehg> everything it does you can do manually
Apr 04 15:43:18 <azaghal> iwconfig eth0 key s:password returns "    SET failed on device eth0 ; Input/output error."
Apr 04 15:45:39 <frojnd> Hello there.. I didn't find anywhere if open moko has the same usb port as a normal computer?
Apr 04 15:46:01 <frojnd> It just say: USB Host function with 500mA power, allowing you to power USB devices for short periods (will drain the FreeRunner battery faster) 
Apr 04 15:46:18 <Defiant> What do you mean with same?
Apr 04 15:46:18 <azaghal> frojnd: It's one of those smaller ports.
Apr 04 15:46:25 <azaghal> I guess size :)
Apr 04 15:46:30 <frojnd> azaghal: oh ok :)
Apr 04 15:46:40 <frojnd> is there any such UMTS modem'
Apr 04 15:47:01 <frojnd> that has that size of a connectop as o's usb port?
Apr 04 15:47:06 <Defiant> frojnd: to connect usb devices tot he freerunner as host you will need an adapter
Apr 04 15:47:36 <frojnd> Defiant: ok
Apr 04 15:47:52 <frojnd> Defiant: and when I have adapter, I can also connect my external disks on it?
Apr 04 15:47:59 <azaghal> lol
Apr 04 15:48:04 <frojnd> ..not at the same time..
Apr 04 15:48:12 <PBeck> ahoi
Apr 04 15:48:13 <azaghal> You know, you don't want to attach something that big :)
Apr 04 15:48:15 <Defiant> you can connect everything
Apr 04 15:48:23 <azaghal> Mostly because of power usage ;)
Apr 04 15:48:27 <Defiant> but it will only be usable if your kernel supports the hardware
Apr 04 15:48:49 <frojnd> azaghal: yes it has it's own power cable..
Apr 04 15:49:24 <azaghal> Ah, nice.
Apr 04 16:37:46 <serdar1> why it's so hard to get in nand flash?
Apr 04 16:37:58 <slaxxin> its not
Apr 04 16:38:16 <slaxxin> in?
Apr 04 16:38:21 <serdar1> everytime I try android starts booting
Apr 04 16:38:39 <slaxxin> u have qi
Apr 04 16:39:01 <serdar1> first power on than aux for nand and first aux than power on for nor, right?
Apr 04 16:39:03 <slaxxin> ?/
Apr 04 16:39:11 <serdar1> slaxxin: yes installed on nor
Apr 04 16:39:24 <serdar1> I want it install on nand, is that wrong?
Apr 04 16:39:38 <slaxxin> theres no nand menu when using Qi
Apr 04 16:39:49 <serdar1> ah
Apr 04 16:39:56 <slaxxin> Qi is installed to nor
Apr 04 16:40:34 <serdar1> the question is, should I install qi only on nor, or could it better to install it on nand?
Apr 04 16:40:42 <serdar1> hipitihop: you can't sleep?
Apr 04 16:40:58 <slaxxin> nor only afaik
Apr 04 16:41:29 <Dave> :o
Apr 04 16:41:32 <slaxxin> or as i should say  installed from nor
Apr 04 16:41:34 <Dave> KenYoung :)
Apr 04 16:41:56 <azaghal> Wait, you can still get that menu after adding qi?
Apr 04 16:41:57 <KenYoung> Hi Dave
Apr 04 16:42:27 <serdar1> hi KenYoung are you the qt-extended-improved guy?
Apr 04 16:42:36 <slaxxin> it appears that the community has now taken over :)!!!
Apr 04 16:42:46 <azaghal> slaxxin: Well, who else? :P
Apr 04 16:42:58 <azaghal> The _good_ thing is that it's all Free Software :)
Apr 04 16:43:03 <azaghal> And I mean really good.
Apr 04 16:43:05 <KenYoung> serdar1, Sorry, no.   I have no interest in qt-extended, improved or otherwise.
Apr 04 16:43:15 <azaghal> If it were proprietary, we'd all go "oh, fsck" right now :)
Apr 04 16:44:04 <serdar1> i see
Apr 04 16:44:36 <KenYoung> sedar1, I want X11...
Apr 04 16:45:14 <serdar1> hmm X11 is overrated
Apr 04 16:45:34 <KenYoung> serdar1, but ubiquitous.
Apr 04 16:46:17 <slaxxin> maybe with a 1000 mhz arm  that uses 1/2 the power
Apr 04 16:46:29 <serdar1> hmm I am useing weechat for irc, there is no X11 needed :)
Apr 04 16:47:13 <lindi-> azaghal: there are still some parts with have only NDA-access
Apr 04 16:47:33 <KenYoung> serdar1, I have many work-related X11 aps that I can now run on my phone, and I'm as happy as can be about that.   The chances of them being re-written for qt are 0.000000000000000000000
Apr 04 16:48:25 <azaghal> KenYoung: You're using full-blown xorg or I missinterpreted here?
Apr 04 16:48:55 <lindi-> azaghal: i'm using full-blown xorg at least
Apr 04 16:48:57 <azaghal> lindi-: Yes, that's what worries me (like graphics, for example)
Apr 04 16:49:08 <KenYoung> azaghal, The default X11 available with 2008.12 is just fine for my work applications.
Apr 04 16:49:09 <lindi-> azaghal: the newest debian has to offer
Apr 04 16:49:15 <azaghal> lindi-: xorg-server?
Apr 04 16:49:18 <lindi-> azaghal: yep
Apr 04 16:49:24 <azaghal> It's not running slowly?
Apr 04 16:49:28 <slaxxin> can we see your work apps?
Apr 04 16:49:33 <lindi-> azaghal: no it's faster than Xglamo
Apr 04 16:49:39 <azaghal> It _is_?
Apr 04 16:49:45 <azaghal> And memory?
Apr 04 16:49:45 <lindi-> azaghal: when typing with xvkbd at least
Apr 04 16:49:55 <lindi-> azaghal: 13M memory
Apr 04 16:49:57 <lindi-> (rss)
Apr 04 16:50:08 <lindi-> azaghal: no sorry, 7M
Apr 04 16:50:17 <lindi-> 13M is virtual size, 7M is rss
Apr 04 16:50:19 <azaghal> Man...
Apr 04 16:50:23 <KenYoung> azaghal, It's *running*.   If I ran a stack without X11, it would not run at all.   The performance isn't spectacular, but I think the network is the bottleneck.
Apr 04 16:50:37 <lindi-> azaghal: if you have some benchmark I can run it
Apr 04 16:50:50 <azaghal> Ho-hum. No idea how I'd go creating one.
Apr 04 16:51:57 <lindi-> azaghal: x11perf?
Apr 04 16:53:26 <azaghal> Ok, just to install it on Neo here.
Apr 04 16:53:41 <azaghal> Why did they develop Xglamo then?
Apr 04 16:54:11 <azaghal> lindi-: You don't have the dpi bug when doing xrandr rotation?
Apr 04 16:54:17 <lindi-> azaghal: just started script -c 'x11perf -all'
Apr 04 16:54:32 <lindi-> azaghal: which one? bug number please
Apr 04 16:54:55 <lindi-> azaghal: did xorg exist back then?
Apr 04 16:55:27 <azaghal> I think so.
Apr 04 16:56:27 <CVirus> YUPPPPPPPPPPPPYYYY .. BREAKING NEWS .. GPS IS NOW LEGAL IN EGYPT
Apr 04 16:56:28 <CVirus> WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Apr 04 16:56:36 <CVirus> YES YES YES
Apr 04 16:56:36 <azaghal> lindi-: Ok, started it myself.
Apr 04 16:57:46 <KenYoung> CVirus, Wow - it was illegal to have a GPS unit in Egypt before this?
Apr 04 16:57:56 <CVirus> KenYoung: yup
Apr 04 16:57:57 <lindi-> azaghal: it'll start to appear to http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/xf86-video-glamo/x11perf1.txt
Apr 04 16:58:07 <azaghal> Good, good, thanks :)
Apr 04 16:58:13 <serdar1> what is with this neopwn stuff?
Apr 04 16:58:21 <KenYoung> CVirus, Then, there should be dancing in the streets there now.
Apr 04 16:58:27 <azaghal> In actuality I thought that xorg couldn't run well on FR and that they opted to create their own.
Apr 04 16:58:38 <CVirus> KenYoung: I'm going to do that .. hehe
Apr 04 16:58:39 <lindi-> azaghal: they probably thought that too
Apr 04 16:58:56 <azaghal> I wonder if they tested it, though?
Apr 04 16:59:03 <KenYoung> CVirus, Map the Nile!
Apr 04 16:59:29 <Dave> :D
Apr 04 16:59:30 <azaghal> And the crocodiles :)
Apr 04 16:59:35 <Dave> What's next, the AmazonM? :D
Apr 04 16:59:44 <CVirus> LOL
Apr 04 16:59:52 <azaghal> No idea, do we _have_ someone in Amazonia?
Apr 04 17:01:22 <serdar1> how's this poky stuff someone tested?
Apr 04 17:02:57 <lindi-> azaghal: how far are you with x11perf? ;)
Apr 04 17:11:28 <slaxxin> has anybody tried small strips of closed cell foam between the speakers to stop  echo on speakerphone?
Apr 04 17:11:44 <IvdSangen> connecting to AP with SHR testing gives me different results, i can connect to some open and WPA networks, while some never seem to connect (using Mofi)
Apr 04 17:12:49 <IvdSangen> also, does the stored passphrase get deleted when the AP has changed its passphrase?
Apr 04 17:16:27 <serdar1> CVirus: than begin to create some data for openstreetmap :)
Apr 04 17:17:24 <azaghal> lindi-: opaque stippled rectangle
Apr 04 17:17:47 <CVirus> serdar1: sure :-D
Apr 04 17:18:46 <lindi-> azaghal: 10x10 tiled rectangle now
Apr 04 17:20:11 <azaghal> lindi-: 5000000 reps @   0.0010 msec (985000.0/sec): Dot is my first entry.
Apr 04 17:20:33 <azaghal> Although, I think I'm using fbdev :)
Apr 04 17:20:41 <lindi-> azaghal: ah, no good to benchmark against that
Apr 04 17:20:45 <azaghal> Yep, I am.
Apr 04 17:20:47 <azaghal> Aborting.
Apr 04 17:21:08 <azaghal> Just change the device to Xglamo, right?
Apr 04 17:21:11 <azaghal> *driver
Apr 04 17:21:39 <lindi-> azaghal: isn't it separate binary?
Apr 04 17:21:52 <azaghal> It is, but I can select device driver.
Apr 04 17:21:56 <azaghal> I did use Xglamo, btw.
Apr 04 17:21:59 <azaghal> X symlinks to it.
Apr 04 17:22:30 <lindi-> azaghal: does Xglamo read configuratio files?
Apr 04 17:22:38 <azaghal> lindi-: I think so.
Apr 04 17:23:06 <azaghal> Yes, it does.
Apr 04 17:23:14 <lindi-> azaghal: really?
Apr 04 17:23:21 <azaghal> I'll double check now.
Apr 04 17:23:28 <azaghal> I _have_ something in xorg.conf
Apr 04 17:24:29 <azaghal> Let's see if it reads Composite from it.
Apr 04 17:53:42 <Zoup> why werner left openmoko?
Apr 04 17:53:46 <azaghal> lindi-: Can't find that dpi thing, but when doing rotation of screen the dpi is lost (i.e. if you set it to 96 dpi it gets reset to something ~200)
Apr 04 17:55:13 <lindi-> azaghal: here it is 61x81 or 81x61 depending on rotation :)
Apr 04 17:55:39 <azaghal> Good, because Xglamo has that bug :)
Apr 04 17:57:29 <SpeedEvil> slaxxin: speaker - if FR
Apr 04 17:58:07 <azaghal> Heck, now to figure out how to prevent wicd from shooting down the usb0 :)
Apr 04 18:04:45 <IvdSangen> is there a good agenda application for shr testing?
Apr 04 18:08:27 <Zorkman> gpe-calendar?
Apr 04 18:08:37 <Zorkman> (that was aimed toward IvdSangen)
Apr 04 18:10:52 <IvdSangen> Zorkman: thnx, will check it out
Apr 04 18:15:24 <serdar1> aaah
Apr 04 18:15:55 <serdar1> android don't work with swap?!
Apr 04 18:19:54 <naruto> hallo, where can i find the specific 2.6.29 for openmoko?
Apr 04 18:19:55 <naruto> tnx
Apr 04 18:20:52 <naruto> andy-tracking or pending-tracking??
Apr 04 18:46:31 <kW> Hi! How is it possible to use the headphones for calling in Om2008.12?
Apr 04 19:12:43 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07cornucopia * r43ace13adee4 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): fsoframework: clean up commons; revert custom vala change in glib-2.0.vapi
Apr 04 19:12:45 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb68c8b63cc01 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel26_leds/plugin.vala: 
Apr 04 19:12:45 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: fsodevice: honor 'sysfs_root' attribute in top level config and compute paths based on it
Apr 04 19:12:45 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: By using the sysfs_root attribute we can develop many parts of fsodevice that do their work
Apr 04 19:12:47 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: using sysfs on the PC. Simply mount your neo's / to your PC (e.g. via sshfs) to /mnt/neo
Apr 04 19:12:50 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: and then set
Apr 04 19:12:52 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: [cornucopia]
Apr 04 19:12:54 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: sysfs_root = /mnt/neo/sysfs
Apr 04 19:16:57 <PaulFertser> kW: (wired headset) I guess it is possible, but you probably won't like it because of the buzz.
Apr 04 19:17:39 <kW> PaulFertser: well, the buzz is not very nice
Apr 04 19:17:57 <kW> PaulFertser: but we want to try out how it works in general... is there a buzz also when just listening to mplayer...?
Apr 04 19:18:00 <Dave> ¬_¬
Apr 04 19:18:14 <Dave> no there is not the same buzz
Apr 04 19:18:19 <PaulFertser> kW: it will be picked up by the mic wire and will get very loud. And you won't hear it, it will be hard by the other party.
Apr 04 19:18:20 <Dave> mplayer works fine for me
Apr 04 19:18:37 <PaulFertser> s/hard/heard/
Apr 04 19:18:38 <apt> PaulFertser meant: kW: it will be picked up by the mic wire and will get very loud. And you won't hear it, it will be heard by the other party.
Apr 04 19:18:44 <PaulFertser> kW: afaik
Apr 04 19:18:48 <KenYoung> Dave has promised to tell us what Project B is.
Apr 04 19:19:10 <PaulFertser> KenYoung: It doesn't run Linux, why should we care? ;)
Apr 04 19:19:39 <KenYoung> PaulFertser, How do you know it doesn't run linux?   
Apr 04 19:20:32 <PaulFertser> KenYoung: somebody said it on irc. And moreover Raster've certainly said that we won't be interested in project B, i trust him.
Apr 04 19:20:43 <Dave> What what?
Apr 04 19:20:45 <Dave> Oh no
Apr 04 19:21:29 <KenYoung> PaulFertser, Oh, I knew nothing about it except the name, and I was hoping it was something cool (linux, of course).
Apr 04 19:21:33 <PaulFertser> kW: you might try nevertheless, for that go to Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem on the wiki and prepare tweaked alsa state file according to the "fancy" routing diagram. But i think you might have more success with the latest FSO and bluetooth headset.
Apr 04 19:21:51 <PaulFertser> KenYoung: something cool from OM-the-company? You must be kidding me!
Apr 04 19:22:27 <KenYoung> PaulFertser, I think the Freerunner is cool.
Apr 04 19:24:26 <PaulFertser> KenYoung: imho: gta01 and gta02 -- great initial idea, concept to make an open phone. Unfortunately fucked up. :( Freerunner technically is not cool: except that we mostly have specs, schematics and working kernel. Hardware itself is probably beyond the lower level of what can be considered reasonable in the industry.
Apr 04 19:25:10 <PaulFertser> KenYoung: both component selection (that one has a decent excuse: need for a non-NDA'd docs) and bad design quality (that has no excuse)... :-/
Apr 04 19:25:13 <PaulFertser> IMHO
Apr 04 19:25:58 <SpeedEvil> 'beyond the lower level' ?
Apr 04 19:26:43 <KenYoung> PaulFertser, I agree the hardware is obsolete, and there are some hardware fuckups.   But you can't expect state-of-the-art components for several well known reasons.   The fuckups are mostly fixable.   The hardware is plenty powerful enough to be a phone, but not a media phone.   I still think it is exciting, because you can do what you want with it.
Apr 04 19:26:47 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i can't spell and know no grammar, sorry :(
Apr 04 19:27:04 <SpeedEvil> paulproteus: I'm not nitpicking on grammar, I don't understand it.
Apr 04 19:27:07 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser:"
Apr 04 19:27:37 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: you better nitpick, it will give me a chance to improve ;)
Apr 04 19:27:49 <SpeedEvil> You mean the hardware isn't adequate for a phone of the proposed class?
Apr 04 19:28:20 <KenYoung> SpeedEvil, Right.   It will never, ever, ever do decent video IMO.
Apr 04 19:28:37 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i mean the hardware sucks in many ways, notably obsolete components and bad engineering.
Apr 04 19:28:41 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Apr 04 19:28:52 <SpeedEvil> In some ways GTA01 + wifi would have been a sensible step.
Apr 04 19:29:16 <SpeedEvil> Yes, it's slow. But look at this working kernel and power-saving, and it runs linux, and takes calls from suspend, and ...
Apr 04 19:29:27 <KenYoung> But you can't blame OM for using obsolete materials, I feel.   They can only be blamed for the screwups (glamo being the worst).
Apr 04 19:29:40 * SpeedEvil forgets when GTA01 was shipped
Apr 04 19:29:46 <SpeedEvil> Jul 2006?
Apr 04 19:29:50 * mirko-paroli wonders if this discussion will ever die off
Apr 04 19:29:59 <KenYoung> July 2007.
Apr 04 19:29:59 <SpeedEvil> mirko-paroli: of course not!
Apr 04 19:30:13 * SpeedEvil forgot the new year again.
Apr 04 19:30:15 <SpeedEvil> meh.
Apr 04 19:30:39 * mirko-paroli takes an extra big sip
Apr 04 19:31:13 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: you know, it's sad to see how this great opportunity (OM initiative) dies (not fulfilling initial goals) because of stupidity.
Apr 04 19:31:24 <azaghal> Heheh
Apr 04 19:31:25 * mirko-paroli knows
Apr 04 19:31:54 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: will you contribute to paroli without openmoko?
Apr 04 19:32:01 <SpeedEvil> The only way to pick the glamo I can see is A) Stupidity. B) Locking in a poor decision too early in an attempt to get hardware out the door ASAP, and not backing out and taking the months hit when it seemed to be dead.
Apr 04 19:32:01 <PaulFertser> That's why i discuss it again and again... Sometimes just can't forget and "move on".
Apr 04 19:32:20 <SpeedEvil> The only way to pick the glamo I can see is A) Stupidity. B) Locking in a poor decision too early in an attempt to get hardware out the door ASAP, and not backing out and taking the months hit when it seemed to be less good than hoped.
Apr 04 19:32:23 <SpeedEvil> I suspect B)
Apr 04 19:32:27 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: Om is still supporting paroli, just much much less than before
Apr 04 19:32:41 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: how much support before and now? :)
Apr 04 19:33:05 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: before there was 3 - 5 people working on it, well more or less anways, now it is me
Apr 04 19:33:14 <PBeck> uff :/
Apr 04 19:33:18 <mirko-paroli> yeah
Apr 04 19:33:28 <SpeedEvil> :/ indeed.
Apr 04 19:33:28 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: would "beyond the lowest quality level" be more correct/understandable? What's the correct way to say that?
Apr 04 19:34:17 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: and to answer the question a bit more dramatically, yes I will still contribute whatever I can to the idea of an open phone, regardless of the company selling them
Apr 04 19:34:17 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: beyond is usually applied to 'further, longer, higher, best' - postitive words. 
Apr 04 19:34:24 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: hum i think in five years we have a working gta02-software - but no more gta02s :>
Apr 04 19:34:27 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: meaning 'better than'
Apr 04 19:34:46 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: nice to hear
Apr 04 19:34:52 <azaghal> When using qi, does uImage-GTA0[1-3] mean which version of Neo is being used or I can put uImage-GTA01 even for FR?
Apr 04 19:34:59 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: I believe that the software being written these days can be hw independent
Apr 04 19:35:01 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: "this stupidity is beyond my level of understanding" will sound weird then?
Apr 04 19:35:10 <mirko-paroli> and most of it brought onto new devices
Apr 04 19:35:19 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: that works. 
Apr 04 19:35:27 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: yes of course
Apr 04 19:35:47 <PaulFertser> azaghal: Version of Neo, it won't magically make kernels compatible ;)
Apr 04 19:35:53 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: English is confusing! Especially to people not experts in the language that just speak it and don't have to analyse why something sounds wierd.
Apr 04 19:36:05 <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: English is confusing! Especially to people not experts in the language that just speak it and don't usually have to analyse why something sounds wierd.
Apr 04 19:36:12 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: there are so many software projects out there to get a stable telephone software - i'm curous about it, which will be the first ;)
Apr 04 19:36:21 <azaghal> PaulFertser: I meant more if I could put three kernels with names GTA01/02/03 (all for the FR), and use the button when booting for switching ;)
Apr 04 19:36:23 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: "better" stupidity ;)
Apr 04 19:36:45 <PaulFertser> azaghal: no, you can't do that.
Apr 04 19:36:47 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: I hope a combination of most of them, each has its strengths and weaknesses ...
Apr 04 19:36:57 <azaghal> Ok, so Qi functions depending on the name?
Apr 04 19:37:30 <PaulFertser> azaghal: it chooses the name of the file to load depending on the device it runs on.
Apr 04 19:37:32 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: yes of course
Apr 04 19:37:39 <azaghal> Ah
Apr 04 19:38:13 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: i'am curious about the new openmoko project :)
Apr 04 19:38:55 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: I believe that is what Sean intended :)
Apr 04 19:39:06 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: you know the project - can you say that it is the new geek-gadget? ;)
Apr 04 19:39:34 <PBeck> or mass-market gadget? :P
Apr 04 19:39:49 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: hmm these questions are hard to answer, but Sean talked of a mass market device ...
Apr 04 19:40:34 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: yes mass-market device - but thats not mean that the end user will buy it ^^
Apr 04 19:40:36 <KenYoung> OM used to talk about "when the neo1973 is a mass market device..."
Apr 04 19:40:51 <mirko-paroli> PBeck: true a gamble every comp has to take
Apr 04 19:40:52 <PBeck> mirko-paroli:  perhaps a mp3 player with rockbox as native os? :D
Apr 04 19:41:11 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: problem is...
Apr 04 19:41:27 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: you can't - sensibly - have a microprocessor running linux doing the decoding
Apr 04 19:41:30 <PBeck> SpeedEvil: openmoko has problems with audio? :P
Apr 04 19:41:30 <KenYoung> Perhaps a workstation to solder surface mount capacitors.
Apr 04 19:41:34 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: it eats too much power
Apr 04 19:41:42 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: or it costs too much, or both
Apr 04 19:41:51 * SpeedEvil wants an openmoko wirebonder.
Apr 04 19:42:15 <PBeck> SpeedEvil: why software decoding?
Apr 04 19:42:17 <KenYoung> I want an OM radiation therapy device.
Apr 04 19:42:40 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: I mean - to run linux, you have to have a moderately large processor.
Apr 04 19:42:42 * mirko-paroli wants an OM peace, love and happiness device
Apr 04 19:42:59 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: but, unless this is quite a fast processor, it can't decode MP3.  
Apr 04 19:43:02 <PBeck> mirko-paroli: peace on earth? that will be expensive ;)
Apr 04 19:43:13 <SpeedEvil> PBeck: mp3 decoding is done at rather lower power with ASICs
Apr 04 19:43:21 <PBeck> SpeedEvil: why linux?
Apr 04 19:43:33 <PBeck> should the new device run linux?
Apr 04 19:43:39 <PBeck> or only be open hardware?
Apr 04 19:44:02 <SpeedEvil> Oh - right - sorry - you said rockbox, I read linux.
Apr 04 19:44:49 <azaghal> Argh. I keep getting:
Apr 04 19:44:52 <azaghal> Error for wireless request "Set Encode" (8B2A) :
Apr 04 19:44:52 <SpeedEvil> That said, I want linux in _everything_ that it can be put in.
Apr 04 19:44:52 <azaghal>     SET failed on device eth0 ; Input/output error.
Apr 04 19:45:01 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: i thought peace, love and happiness can be brought through the art (music/paintings/cinema/etc), not devices... Looks like this approached failed too...
Apr 04 19:45:02 <SpeedEvil> A camera with embedded 'motion' software for example.
Apr 04 19:45:06 <azaghal> For iwconfig eth0 key s:password
Apr 04 19:45:37 <PBeck> SpeedEvil: :)
Apr 04 19:46:18 <mirko-paroli> PaulFertser: I just figured since the natural approach failed, we need a machine to do that for us ... best bet I guess
Apr 04 19:46:36 <PaulFertser> BTW, i'm too young to know, but did many people really believed back then that music can really "give piece a chance" to become a better place?
Apr 04 19:47:16 <KenYoung> PaulFertser, I'm of that age group, and we believe a lot of stuff stupider than that.
Apr 04 19:47:29 <fredrin_> lol
Apr 04 19:47:30 <KenYoung> s/believe/believed/
Apr 04 19:47:30 <apt> KenYoung meant: PaulFertser, I'm of that age group, and we believed a lot of stuff stupider than that.
Apr 04 19:47:46 <KenYoung> apt, Yup, exactly right.
Apr 04 19:47:50 <PBeck> KenYoung: rofl
Apr 04 19:47:50 <PaulFertser> KenYoung: i guess it's much better to believe in stupid dreams about piece than in "no future" slogan.
Apr 04 19:48:06 <PaulFertser> s/piece/peace/
Apr 04 19:48:07 <apt> PaulFertser meant: KenYoung: i guess it's much better to believe in stupid dreams about peace than in "no future" slogan.
Apr 04 19:48:13 <PBeck> we have a feature? then openmoko too :D
Apr 04 19:48:17 <PBeck> *future :)
Apr 04 19:48:25 <KenYoung> PaulFertser, We boomers have been a DISASTER.
Apr 04 19:48:43 <PBeck> so i will go offline now - good weekend to all :) bye bye
Apr 04 19:48:51 <mirko-paroli> night PBeck
Apr 04 19:51:07 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: heh, how many people can understand and see some ethics in "The Story of Mel"? I.e. i guess some Miyazaki films can really influence more people.
Apr 04 19:53:37 <fredrin> mirko-paroli: done moving? 
Apr 04 19:53:55 <mirko-paroli> fredrin: yepp, homeless once again :)
Apr 04 19:54:13 <Dave> :]
Apr 04 19:54:14 <fredrin> homeless is good
Apr 04 19:54:16 <Dave> aw
Apr 04 19:54:19 <fredrin> then you can have many homes 
Apr 04 19:54:19 <Dave> not good :P
Apr 04 19:54:29 <Dave> many cardboard boxes to live in ¬_¬
Apr 04 19:54:34 <Dave> or corners to live on :P
Apr 04 19:54:41 <fredrin> nah, couch surfing 
Apr 04 19:54:47 <mirko-paroli> Dave: nope, only 2 suitcases and a backpack,which was the plan
Apr 04 19:54:50 <fredrin> hostels, temp apts
Apr 04 19:54:59 <mirko-paroli> I am mobile ;)
Apr 04 19:55:02 <fredrin> I've been living like that for 2 years
Apr 04 19:55:08 <Dave> :O
Apr 04 19:55:15 <Dave> o_O
Apr 04 19:55:15 <fredrin> my home is on teh internets 
Apr 04 19:55:20 <Dave> -_-
Apr 04 19:55:20 <mirko-paroli> fredrin: I have been doing this for almost 5 now ;)
Apr 04 19:55:26 <fredrin> or on my computer
Apr 04 19:55:27 <mirko-paroli> had the flat for 8 weeks
Apr 04 19:55:27 <Dave> wtf?
Apr 04 19:55:32 <fredrin> mirko-paroli: nice 
Apr 04 19:55:41 <mirko-paroli> 4 of them I wasn't even on the continent ;)
Apr 04 19:55:44 <fredrin> /home/
Apr 04 19:55:57 <fredrin> come to Uruguay and Argentina 
Apr 04 19:56:06 <fredrin> nice places to be, just a bit unstable internet
Apr 04 19:56:10 <mirko-paroli> hehe
Apr 04 19:56:44 <fredrin> but you can pick up girls with showing off the FR, since it's very low tech here in south america 
Apr 04 19:56:50 <fredrin> lol
Apr 04 19:56:55 <fredrin> people think I'm Neo 
Apr 04 19:56:58 <mirko-paroli> LOL
Apr 04 19:57:00 <Dave> :P
Apr 04 19:57:05 <Dave> THE ONE
Apr 04 19:57:28 <mirko-paroli> fredrin: good there was a quesition that always bothered me
Apr 04 19:57:33 <mirko-paroli> I couldn't get it out of my head
Apr 04 19:57:43 <fredrin> what
Apr 04 19:57:50 <mirko-paroli> can you switch the color of the writing that you see flowing around everywhere?
Apr 04 19:57:57 <mirko-paroli> or is it always that green?
Apr 04 19:58:03 <Dave> O_o
Apr 04 19:58:16 <fredrin> just get drunk and it changes or LSD
Apr 04 19:58:24 <Dave> -_-
Apr 04 19:58:35 * mirko-paroli notes the advice for alter
Apr 04 19:58:41 <fredrin> lol
Apr 04 19:59:51 <mirko-paroli> actually I'll take the advice now and have a real beer
Apr 04 20:02:37 <fredrin> skål
Apr 04 20:02:44 <mirko-paroli> tack
Apr 04 20:03:28 * fredrin takes a sigg
Apr 04 20:03:44 <Dave> :o
Apr 04 20:03:59 <Sargi> Hi, im trying to install an emulation env for openmoko on my Ubuntu hardy system, I'm following the instructions on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu. But during compiling, it stops with the following error message: http://pastebin.com/d45410b0 . This Problem ist described in the article too, but there is no solution. Can anyone help me please?
Apr 04 20:04:13 <mirko-paroli> detsamma
Apr 04 20:04:21 <fredrin> lol
Apr 04 20:04:43 <Dave> ¬_¬
Apr 04 20:07:21 <mirko-paroli> so, fredrin what brought you to Argentina or are you from there?
Apr 04 20:08:32 <fredrin> no, from norway, but i wanted to try a different way of life, for one year, now it has been two years :)
Apr 04 20:08:34 <Dave> haha
Apr 04 20:08:46 <Dave> en?
Apr 04 20:08:49 <fredrin> and I've always liked argentina
Apr 04 20:09:02 <mirko-paroli> got exciting work down there ?
Apr 04 20:09:06 <fredrin> but i go back to norway during the summer
Apr 04 20:09:10 <Dave> :o
Apr 04 20:09:28 <fredrin> because it winter here when it's summer in norway :)
Apr 04 20:09:32 <Dave> ja :p
Apr 04 20:09:36 <Dave> hva jobber du med?
Apr 04 20:09:37 <mirko-paroli> "summer" ;)
Apr 04 20:09:45 <fredrin> nah, make money on the stock market. Making money of the financial crisis 
Apr 04 20:09:53 <Dave> ¬_¬
Apr 04 20:09:53 <fredrin> somebody got to do that aswell :D
Apr 04 20:09:55 <mirko-paroli> du glömde ett d eller ?
Apr 04 20:09:58 <Dave> bastard!
Apr 04 20:10:08 <mirko-paroli> fredrin: smart
Apr 04 20:10:36 <fredrin> Dave: har jobbet som sysadmin i et lite oppstaarts firma i norge. www.kikora.no 
Apr 04 20:10:43 <Dave> Ah :]
Apr 04 20:10:46 <Dave> cool
Apr 04 20:10:48 <fredrin> og hjulpet til å lage en matematikk motor i maude
Apr 04 20:10:55 <Dave> argentina hmm
Apr 04 20:11:03 <Dave> hvordan er været??
Apr 04 20:11:15 <fredrin> stabilt og varmt, men ikke for varmt 
Apr 04 20:11:27 <Dave> :D
Apr 04 20:11:29 <fredrin> men du finner alt slags vær i argentina
Apr 04 20:11:31 <Dave> nice
Apr 04 20:11:40 <fredrin> men buenos aires har bra vær
Apr 04 20:11:54 <fredrin> montevideo, uruguay også 
Apr 04 20:12:01 <Dave> så... er du singel? ;p
Apr 04 20:12:03 <fredrin> kun tre timer med båt fra buenos aires
Apr 04 20:12:07 <fredrin> ja
Apr 04 20:12:19 <fredrin> har vel noen damer litt her og der.... 
Apr 04 20:12:20 <Dave> jeg forstår :P
Apr 04 20:12:37 <mirko-paroli> Dave: nice shift of topics ;)
Apr 04 20:12:49 <Dave> :P
Apr 04 20:12:50 <PaulFertser> And languages
Apr 04 20:12:55 <Dave> I had to know ;)
Apr 04 20:13:01 <fredrin> it always comes down to women and the weather 
Apr 04 20:13:08 <Dave> ja
Apr 04 20:13:14 <Dave> what else is there to talk about? openmoko?
Apr 04 20:13:15 <Dave> hah!
Apr 04 20:13:18 <Dave> ¬_¬
Apr 04 20:13:21 <fredrin> the global common multiplier 
Apr 04 20:13:26 <Dave> :]
Apr 04 20:13:31 <Dave> stemmer det!
Apr 04 20:13:34 <mirko-paroli> bra fråga var bara liten överraskad
Apr 04 20:13:35 <fredrin> lol
Apr 04 20:15:21 <Dave> sååååååååååååååå..... er du stein eller idag? :]
Apr 04 20:15:55 <fredrin> stein? fjern? 
Apr 04 20:16:03 <fredrin> :P
Apr 04 20:16:42 <Dave> hehehe
Apr 04 20:17:01 <Dave> hey, I don't know what you do down there!?
Apr 04 20:17:08 <Dave> ¬_¬
Apr 04 20:19:33 <fredrin> http://webehigh.com/ <-- Uruguay is the place to be :) 
Apr 04 20:19:51 <fredrin> lol
Apr 04 20:19:59 <Dave> o_O
Apr 04 20:20:07 <Dave> crazy
Apr 04 21:30:17 <DocScrutinizer> so pupils, now for our english lesson. Open your books at  page...
Apr 04 21:30:52 <DocScrutinizer> ge0lenen gefaxenen
Apr 04 21:31:26 <Wonka> what?
Apr 04 21:31:52 <DocScrutinizer> [22:15] <Dave> sååååååååååååååå..... er du stein eller idag? :]
Apr 04 21:32:08 <Wonka> that was at least not entirely, but quite unlike german
Apr 04 21:32:12 <fredrin> translate.google.com
Apr 04 21:33:25 <DocScrutinizer> fredrin: google dransleid koo mer amool an buggl noorudschn, host mi?
Apr 04 21:34:16 <rhkfin_> I'm running 2008.12 with updated e17 (from http://downloads.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb/openmoko/ incl. elementary). I get message: 'error while loading shared libraries: libelementary.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory'. How to get over this?
Apr 04 21:35:17 <rhkfin_> I'm trying to run the app with ELM_ENGINE=x16 (no idea what's that for)
Apr 04 21:36:23 <fredrin> DocScrutinizer: google.translate failed me :( 
Apr 04 21:38:48 <rhkfin_> ah, this was needed: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/e17/lib
Apr 04 22:13:37 <MadTBone> Can anyone get sound from the alarm w/ SHR unstable
Apr 04 22:14:25 <IvdSangen> is there work going on to get a good mail client working?
Apr 04 22:15:14 <fredrin> someone shuld make this work on the FR http://www.tinymail.org/trac/tmut
Apr 04 22:15:15 <macros> MadTBone: Install ffalarms, it works well
Apr 04 22:15:21 <fredrin> nice mail client
Apr 04 22:15:43 <Serdar> fredrin, that's not german
Apr 04 22:15:54 <fredrin> Serdar: eh?
Apr 04 22:16:22 <Serdar> nope, it isn't
Apr 04 22:16:45 <Serdar> oh it was Wonka who mentioned it
Apr 04 22:17:27 <IvdSangen> fredrin: i will take a look at it :)
Apr 04 22:17:27 <fredrin> someone did, not sure who 
Apr 04 22:17:37 <fredrin> but i should be posible to translate it
Apr 04 22:18:00 <fredrin> it
Apr 04 22:18:02 <fredrin> gah
Apr 04 22:18:22 <fredrin> i don't know german, just learn it at school for 4 years...
Apr 04 22:18:23 <Serdar> nope there is: he you stone and something I cannot translate. but nethertheless "he you stone" makes no sense
Apr 04 22:19:00 <fredrin> stone could be stoned ;) 
Apr 04 22:19:21 <shellevil> Maybe he said jehova?
Apr 04 22:19:46 <Serdar> jehova makes no sense eigher
Apr 04 22:20:16 <fredrin> "sooooooo... are you stoned or today? :]" 
Apr 04 22:20:35 <fredrin> but the sentence don't make fullysense in true norwegian 
Apr 04 22:21:19 <shellevil> sorry - Python reference.
Apr 04 22:21:21 <fredrin> but what ever 
Apr 04 22:21:24 <shellevil> Life of Brian
Apr 04 22:21:35 <Serdar> to be stoned is not timely.
Apr 04 22:21:38 <fredrin> eh?
Apr 04 22:21:49 <Serdar> I killed me, I like puns :)
Apr 04 22:21:53 <fredrin> Serdar: if you smoke wee
Apr 04 22:21:57 <fredrin> d
Apr 04 22:22:07 <fredrin> it is
Apr 04 22:22:15 <Serdar> smoking a wii sound's much expensive
Apr 04 22:22:35 <Serdar> s/sound's/sounds
Apr 04 22:23:13 <fredrin> true, but make a Wii smoke is more fun 
Apr 04 22:24:05 <Wonka> are there any wimmin around here todaaay?
Apr 04 22:24:42 <Toaster`> Is there a description of the idle/lock/idle prelock/idle dim anywhere?  Some of them are self-explainatory but I'm confused about what some o fthem do.
Apr 04 22:28:29 <Dave> Hewo Wonka :)
Apr 04 22:30:17 <Wonka> i was told danish and norsk was the same language, but the danes can't speak and the norsk can't write
Apr 04 22:31:17 <fredrin> true
Apr 04 22:31:44 <fredrin> and the sweeds don't understand anything :) 
Apr 04 22:31:53 <rhkfin_> and the finns understand you all :)
Apr 04 22:32:20 <fredrin> :) 
Apr 04 22:32:59 <Dave> :P
Apr 04 22:34:28 <OsteHovel> Norsk
Apr 04 22:34:30 <OsteHovel> :P
Apr 04 22:34:34 <TeLLuS> Svenskar förstår inte finska..
Apr 04 22:34:40 <OsteHovel> Norwegian: Drikker du Øl?
Apr 04 22:35:02 * rhkfin_ hits you all with lutfisk :)
Apr 04 22:35:09 <OsteHovel> :P
Apr 04 22:36:12 <fredrin> OsteHovel: alltid 
Apr 04 22:36:44 <Toaster`> Any of you guys know anything about the timeouts in SHR?
Apr 04 22:36:45 <fredrin> the vikings are the best comunicators 
Apr 04 22:36:46 <fredrin> lol
Apr 04 22:37:36 <rhkfin_> Toaster`: nope, sorry..
Apr 04 22:39:23 <Toaster`> hrm..
Apr 04 22:39:28 <TeLLuS> Toaster`: Just that there are timeouts.. try change and wait and see
Apr 04 22:40:04 <Toaster`> Well, that's the issue.  My FR suspends fine, but doesn't dim
Apr 04 22:40:40 <Toaster`> and since I don't know what some of the timeouts are for exactly, I can't be sure they are actually firing, or even how to check.
Apr 04 22:41:04 <slaxxin> tried settings/power?
Apr 04 22:41:17 <Toaster`> slaxxin: yes
Apr 04 22:41:38 <slaxxin> cant change the values?
Apr 04 22:42:22 <Toaster`> slaxxin: I can change the values, but nothing blanks.  Though reading through the SHR commit logs, they may have tweaked somethings that broke it. 
Apr 04 22:43:01 <Toaster`> Found the issue when my FR drained whilst doing some gps mapping this morning
Apr 04 22:44:51 <Toaster`> though no changes other then visual changes to the timeouts module
Apr 04 22:45:34 <Toaster`> looking more and more like a frameworkd issue.  SHR-Settings seems to be updating frameworkd.conf properly
Apr 04 22:53:35 <slaxxin> nmmmmm   "free hardware"
Apr 04 22:54:12 <simoo> i just read slashdot, i am a little sad
Apr 04 22:54:25 <simoo> I only just got my freerunner
Apr 04 22:55:06 <slaxxin> no worries   
Apr 04 22:55:29 <simoo> no?
Apr 04 22:56:02 <IvdSangen> simoo: hacking will go on!
Apr 04 22:57:45 <simoo> yeah, that's true :) but it is a shame that the project failed
Apr 04 22:58:21 <simoo> wanted an open source phone, found one and was really glad for that
Apr 04 22:58:34 <IvdSangen> well, the specs are there for another noble soul to pick them up
Apr 04 22:59:21 <simoo> yeah I suppose because ot was all open source, the progress is not lost
Apr 04 23:00:08 <rhkfin_> Hmm.. not good.. can't get a ssh in my debian any more and I have no keyboard -> can't do anything.. dmesg on the host doesn't notice the connectiong..
Apr 04 23:00:24 <azaghal> Load average 5.04... Oh my...
Apr 04 23:00:34 <rhkfin_> ah, now it did - it just took a loong time
Apr 04 23:02:01 <fredrin> i can't connect over ssh aswell, think it got something to do with new kernel modules 
Apr 04 23:02:05 <fredrin> not sure what to do
Apr 04 23:02:19 <fredrin> have keyboard though :) 
Apr 04 23:02:32 <rhkfin_> fredrin: debian?
Apr 04 23:02:43 <fredrin> shr-unstable
Apr 04 23:02:45 <rhkfin_> ok
Apr 04 23:02:48 <azaghal> fredrin: Type in ifdown usb0; ifup usb0 ?
Apr 04 23:02:58 <fredrin> tried
Apr 04 23:03:00 <azaghal> Oh, nvm.
Apr 04 23:03:12 <azaghal> SHR died on me as well after some update :)
Apr 04 23:03:27 <azaghal> Heck, I was struggling to get Debian working with wifi the whole afternoon.
Apr 04 23:03:45 <fredrin> wifi don't work either
Apr 04 23:04:02 <simoo> does debian use the freerunners 2d acceleration?
Apr 04 23:07:00 <fredrin> hum lsmod gives me just one module
Apr 04 23:07:02 <fredrin> can't be right
Apr 04 23:09:03 <simoo> are openmoko still going to sell the phone?
Apr 04 23:09:45 <fredrin> puh, back in on the phone
Apr 04 23:09:50 <fredrin> depmod + reboot helped
Apr 04 23:10:33 <Wonka> simoo: http://www.openmoko.com/ says yes
Apr 04 23:10:41 <Wonka> damn. he fled.
Apr 04 23:12:11 <IvdSangen> huh, how do i get a C compiler on SHR testing?
Apr 04 23:12:50 <IvdSangen> opkg install gcc does something, but it appears not to drop some gcc binary in my default PATH
Apr 04 23:34:45 <toggles_w> ouch, the dot slashers aren't very nice..
Apr 04 23:35:14 <fredrin> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240
Apr 04 23:35:16 <husku> toggles_w: surprise.
Apr 04 23:35:24 <toggles_w> husku: lol ;-)
Apr 04 23:42:55 <IvdSangen> okay, apart from gcc it needed gcc-symlinks
Apr 04 23:43:42 <IvdSangen> but now I still do not have an assembler
Apr 04 23:46:39 <ColdFyre> RIP openmoko :(:(
Apr 04 23:47:32 <KenYoung> ColdFyre, Sadly, yes.
Apr 04 23:50:31 <doc|laptop> hey, does that mean our phones could increase in value?
Apr 04 23:50:45 <doc|laptop> admittedly, right now they're worthless given they don't fucking work, but that's beside the point :(
Apr 04 23:52:49 <KenYoung> Edsels are quite pricey cars these days.
Apr 04 23:53:39 <doc|laptop> :)
Apr 04 23:54:42 <doc|laptop> still, they're not dead yet, just not working on the freerunner :/
Apr 05 00:01:10 <DocScrutinizer> OM is still producing and selling FR
Apr 05 00:03:19 <KenYoung> doc|laptop, Well, I doubt project B will be a success.   The purchasers of Openmoko phones have been relatively forgiving of the hardware and software problems, because the communitiy was truly excited about the potential of the phone.   But if Project B is actually supposed to be a product for non-geeks, I doubt OM can pull it off.   They have not demonstrated the ability to produce commercial quality hardware or software.   End users won't be placated b
Apr 05 00:03:20 <fredrin> i like the idea of GTA2.5 
Apr 05 00:03:20 <KenYoung> y an eastern philosophy quote tucked in with the box, or suggestions to have a party to fix the unit, if OM ships defective Project B units.
Apr 05 00:04:13 <fredrin> and openmoko could maybe whore out for a phone company? 
Apr 05 00:04:18 <doc|laptop> KenYoung: aye, I won't be a guinea pig again. Either it works well enough on shipping (nothing's perfect :/) or I'll be buying nothing :/
Apr 05 00:04:54 * mwester rather agrees with KenYoung 
Apr 05 00:05:50 <mwester> And Sean's presentation where he listed the Dash in the "mistake" category does not signal an attitude likely to make a "plan b" suddenly be "not" a mistake.
Apr 05 00:05:58 <KenYoung> doc|laptop, I'd actually buy a phone from OM again.   I'm a fanboi.   I think the Freerunner, dispite its problems, is fun and neat.   But I doubt they'll ever get to make another phone.
Apr 05 00:06:33 <mwester> Not to mention that he ascribes part of the blame for the problems Openmoko has to the community for, apparently, failing to deliver on a working software stack for the GTA02.  Puleeeeze!
Apr 05 00:06:39 * toggles_w is a fanboi too, i love the idea
Apr 05 00:07:04 <doc|laptop> KenYoung: as would I, but I'd expect more to be working out of the box. I'm a bit tired of having a useless (and expensive then but much cheaper now) brick
Apr 05 00:07:09 * mwester expects the fanbois will grow up some day ;-)
Apr 05 00:07:12 <mwester> :p
Apr 05 00:07:15 <toggles_w> lol
Apr 05 00:07:21 <doc|laptop> mwester: got an alternative? :/
Apr 05 00:07:31 <mwester> doc|laptop:  to what?
Apr 05 00:07:35 * toggles_w hates talking on the phone too, so my neo is a perfect fit
Apr 05 00:07:36 <eolson> mwester, while plan B might be simpler, I agree with your dash analysis.  Openmoko switches gears too often.
Apr 05 00:08:15 <KenYoung> mwester, Well, things actually might have worked out better if OM had dedicated their software effort exclusively to the aspects for which access to the NDA documents was required, and had explicitly left the PIM stack to the community.   Had that been the plan from day 1,  it could have worked.
Apr 05 00:08:33 <KenYoung> Unfortunately, every few months, there was a new plan, it seemed.
Apr 05 00:08:59 <doc|laptop> for what us "fanbois" want :)
Apr 05 00:09:05 <mwester> KenYoung:  yep -- if they had stuck to the role of "enablers", with a community liason/manager, I think it would have ended differently.
Apr 05 00:09:56 <mwester> doc|laptop:  No, I know of no alternative -- which is why I am somewhat bitter about what Openmoko and Sean have done -- I see that they have squandered an opportunity after it was almost handed to them on a plate.
Apr 05 00:10:06 <doc|laptop> mwester: :/
Apr 05 00:10:49 <johnsu01> well, TBF their lunch kind of got eaten by Google
Apr 05 00:11:21 <johnsu01> hard to compete with a basically working nearly-as-free subsidized phone
Apr 05 00:11:26 <mwester> I guess that's sort of true, but I still think there's room for a _real_ open phone, in the sense of one that can run standard Linux apps.
Apr 05 00:11:54 <KenYoung> johnsu01, THere was plenty of room for them in the market, I think, even in a post-Android world.
Apr 05 00:11:57 * husku thinks openness is the product he bought. not a phone.
Apr 05 00:12:03 <d-b> mwester: its called an android
Apr 05 00:12:35 <johnsu01> d-b: depends what you call really open, I don't call having proprietary software shipped on the phone open or free, and that's even with the dev model
Apr 05 00:12:39 <d-b> i for one respect our new masters.
Apr 05 00:12:56 <d-b> johnsu01: what's proprietary on the android atm ?
Apr 05 00:13:01 <johnsu01> the point to me is not to be in the situation yet again where I have to buy a device and then wipe it again
Apr 05 00:13:06 <d-b> if it runs debian /me doesn't care
Apr 05 00:13:17 <doc|laptop> husku: yeah, but there'll just be one. No more after the freerunner :/
Apr 05 00:13:31 <d-b> yay for collectorz item.
Apr 05 00:13:34 <johnsu01> d-b: all the google apps, the market app, more of the firmware iirc
Apr 05 00:13:57 <d-b> johnsu01: there are blobs in the linux kernel oh noes !
Apr 05 00:14:02 <johnsu01> obviously with the tmobile version there is much more
Apr 05 00:14:36 <husku> doc|laptop: i know. but, my point was this: i bought open phone and that way i support the idea of openness in general. in future (from any maker) i'll be using my money to buy open stuff (even if its partly shit).
Apr 05 00:14:36 <KenYoung> johnsu01, If you remove all the fart apps, the celebrity quote aps, the walpaer apps and the flashlights from the Android market, Freerunners might actually have more apps than Andriod.
Apr 05 00:14:38 <johnsu01> d-b: I do care about that, yes
Apr 05 00:14:45 <d-b> johnsu01: go use openbsd then
Apr 05 00:15:02 <johnsu01> d-b: I'd rather help get the linux kernel free, which with linux-libre is making some progress
Apr 05 00:15:25 <d-b> johnsu01: 'help'. 
Apr 05 00:15:42 <doc|laptop> husku: *nod*
Apr 05 00:16:01 <johnsu01> d-b: I understand if you don't care as much about it, but no need to disparage those who do I don't think, it's at least an interesting project to make as much of the functionality as free as possible
Apr 05 00:16:26 <d-b> johnsu01: my point is that whats the diff between helping on android and helping in the linux kernel
Apr 05 00:16:29 <johnsu01> and my primary concern with the G1 is the actual userspace application software and DRM
Apr 05 00:17:07 <johnsu01> KenYoung: for sure, and I'm hoping to have a buzz-fixed FR on Monday :) 
Apr 05 00:17:26 <d-b> johnsu01: i agree openmoko is cool. but lacked a lot in the v2 like graphics and people to actually sit down from the community and write ONE good gui and ONE good framework. fso is good sure. but wherez the gui ?
Apr 05 00:17:37 <d-b> get gui -> win
Apr 05 00:17:45 <johnsu01> d-b: the diff is that I personally don't want to contribute to a platform that permits my contributions to be licensed under proprietary licenses
Apr 05 00:18:02 <johnsu01> d-b: which strikes me as a particularly bad idea in the phone world
Apr 05 00:18:07 <d-b> johnsu01: the linux kernel is abused enough as it is.
Apr 05 00:18:14 <johnsu01> d-b: I fully agree with all of that
Apr 05 00:19:05 <d-b> johnsu01: its nearly impossible to approach vendors like dlink and go look you have possible gpl viol, got an answer ?
Apr 05 00:19:18 <johnsu01> d-b: well, we're suing cisco right now, so sure
Apr 05 00:19:30 <d-b> johnsu01: isn't that a different issue?
Apr 05 00:19:40 <johnsu01> and gpl-violations won against dlink, no?
Apr 05 00:19:48 <johnsu01> verizon settled
Apr 05 00:19:54 <johnsu01> against SFLC
Apr 05 00:19:59 <d-b> johnsu01: no. there are still products in the market NO SOURCE available
Apr 05 00:20:12 <d-b> i can point out a number from dlink.
Apr 05 00:20:25 <johnsu01> d-b: I'm not saying there aren't a lot of violations out there, and if you know ones that involve FSF copyrighted software then you should let us know :)
Apr 05 00:20:52 <johnsu01> but the point is I don't want to contribute as much to a platform that explicitly markets itself based on the ability of people to add proprietary extensions and ship it binary-only
Apr 05 00:21:37 <d-b> johnsu01: i know you want linux to win vs the other oses. so let me put it this way, joe blogs doesn't care.
Apr 05 00:22:09 <d-b> smarty panty joe uses apple, normal joe uses windowz
Apr 05 00:22:16 <johnsu01> d-b: I'm finding that that's changing, I know very many people who have complained about DRM and Vista and other facets of proprietary software, and they are looking for alternatives
Apr 05 00:22:36 <d-b> johnsu01: they complain, but they don't do anything about it.
Apr 05 00:22:37 <johnsu01> it's to the point where acquaintances have gone and purchased GNU/Linux machines without me ever saying anything to them
Apr 05 00:22:57 <d-b> johnsu01: mm interesting haven't seen that over drm.
Apr 05 00:23:07 <johnsu01> I know a number of people who bought those Dell machines, and eee pcs
Apr 05 00:23:34 <d-b> i see people who buy those eee's too cuz they hate microsoft and others because it was cheap. they don't know its linux maybe maybe they do.
Apr 05 00:23:36 <johnsu01> it's hard for people to do something about it, and that's a disincentive, but as it gets a bit easier more and more people find it worthwhile to care
Apr 05 00:23:58 <johnsu01> it's a mix I'm sure
Apr 05 00:24:13 <johnsu01> but people really are tired of being yelled at about activating things IME
Apr 05 00:24:20 <d-b> johnsu01:  i love that the eee's have an antivirus scanner
Apr 05 00:24:27 <husku> johnsu01: any info on this? (http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnsu01/3169121053/)
Apr 05 00:24:36 * d-b loled so hard when it start scanning EVERY thing not just /home
Apr 05 00:24:58 <johnsu01> d-b: hah, well, people think there's something wrong if there isn't a virus scanner that is making their machine run like crap I guess :)
Apr 05 00:25:00 <d-b> its clam av
Apr 05 00:25:43 <johnsu01> husku: heh, http://wjsullivan.net/Pepperoni Pizza Soup.html
Apr 05 00:26:55 <husku> johnsu01: vegan pepperoni? :)
Apr 05 00:27:23 <johnsu01> and that's on topic because I used my FR in the kitchen with the recipe on the screen :)
Apr 05 00:27:46 <johnsu01> husku: yeah, that brand is only so-so, I'd rather find a different way
Apr 05 00:28:25 <sirkha_top> umm, article on slashdot says that hardware development is no more, but i didn't see anything on openmoko.com or the wiki...
Apr 05 00:28:28 <doc|laptop> I feel dirty
Apr 05 00:28:38 <husku> doc|laptop: shower, perhaps?
Apr 05 00:28:39 <doc|laptop> rogers are selling samsung blackjacks for $150
Apr 05 00:28:46 <doc|laptop> husku: perhaps :(
Apr 05 00:28:52 <doc|laptop> I was considering getting one
Apr 05 00:29:26 <husku> johnsu01: ok, i was having troubles with the concept of vegan pepperoni, and the pictures made it look like real pepperoni :)
Apr 05 00:30:01 <husku> doc|laptop: you should, any decent human inhabitat has showering facilities :p
Apr 05 00:30:14 <doc|laptop> brb
Apr 05 00:30:35 <SeligArkin> husku: or a nearby lake
Apr 05 00:30:37 <zeroedout> sirkha_top: On the ml it was sated that gta03 is essentially no more, they're working on another project, and alot of staff is gone to devel has been reduced
Apr 05 00:31:19 <Dave> Selig!
Apr 05 00:31:23 <SeligArkin> Dave!
Apr 05 00:31:27 <KenYoung> sirkha_top, There's some info on the "planet" page of openmoko.org too.
Apr 05 00:31:31 <fredrin> what about gta2.5
Apr 05 00:31:38 <sirkha_top> ok, thanks, i'll look at that
Apr 05 00:32:30 <SM2k> So... will the gta02 still be mass produced?
Apr 05 00:33:03 <KenYoung> fredrin, gta2.5 seems VERY unlikely.   They've as much as said OM is out of the phone market for a while.
Apr 05 00:33:31 <SeligArkin> eep
Apr 05 00:34:25 <SeligArkin> How are yo today, Dave?
Apr 05 00:35:28 <KenYoung> Dave, I guess instead of a buzz-fix "party", we should now organize a buzz-fix "wake".
Apr 05 00:41:08 <Dave> Ken :)
Apr 05 00:41:17 <Dave> Selig, yeah alright
Apr 05 00:41:23 <Dave> My soldering job et al went well
Apr 05 00:41:36 <Dave> about to stress test the wattage though, just to make sure :p
Apr 05 00:41:42 <SeligArkin> heh
Apr 05 00:41:57 <Dave> The real test is ALWAYS whether it melts and/or explodes me after the repair is made ;D
Apr 05 00:42:05 <DocScrutinizer> SM2k: yes
Apr 05 00:42:06 <Dave> So if you don't hear back... that's probably what happened
Apr 05 00:42:16 <SeligArkin> eep
Apr 05 00:42:20 <SeligArkin> try not to explode
Apr 05 00:42:31 <Dave> yeah
Apr 05 00:42:35 <Dave> admit it, you'd miss me :P
Apr 05 00:42:48 <Dave> one sec, before I test I was captivated by something
Apr 05 00:42:59 <SeligArkin> hehe
Apr 05 00:43:00 <Dave> I'm performing a frankenstein mod on a supermulti drive
Apr 05 00:43:28 <SM2k> DocScrutinizer: glad to hear!
Apr 05 00:44:06 <DocScrutinizer> afaik there are "just enough" GTA02 on stock waiting to ship
Apr 05 00:44:34 <SM2k> DocScrutinizer: "just enough" that the manufacturer is willing to make more? :-)
Apr 05 00:44:55 <SM2k> or "just enough" to meet current demand?
Apr 05 00:45:20 <DocScrutinizer> I think stock will last for some time, then OM might ramp up A7 MP again
Apr 05 00:45:38 <fredrin_> a7 mp?
Apr 05 00:45:41 <SM2k> that's fair. thanks for the info
Apr 05 00:45:57 <DocScrutinizer> np
Apr 05 00:46:02 <doc|laptop> husku: hehehe
Apr 05 00:56:29 <FFForever2> is there any way to run open moko on the htc dream?
Apr 05 01:19:25 <doc|laptop> you know what sucks?
Apr 05 01:19:28 <doc|laptop> the iphone won :(
Apr 05 01:19:40 <FFForever2> won what?
Apr 05 01:20:17 <doc|laptop> just in general :/
Apr 05 01:20:32 <FFForever2> yeah, anyways can i run open moko on the htc dream?
Apr 05 01:26:33 <raster> doc|laptop:  who says the game is over?
Apr 05 01:27:03 <DocScrutinizer> not for me anyways
Apr 05 01:27:46 <doc|laptop> raster: not much reason to think otherwise right now
Apr 05 01:28:18 <DocScrutinizer> though honestly gta02 never was meant to compete against iphone
Apr 05 01:28:31 <doc|laptop> sure, but it was better than nothing
Apr 05 01:28:36 <Dave> :)
Apr 05 01:29:02 <doc|laptop> I saw it as a stepping stone for them to make some cash to fund the next phone, but it looks (at least right now) like that's not likely
Apr 05 01:29:25 <doc|laptop> obviously most of us don't know what b product is
Apr 05 01:29:43 <FFForever2> so i cant???
Apr 05 01:30:13 <doc|laptop> FFForever2: if no one has replied it's possibly because no one awake right now knows. Check wiki.openmoko.org.
Apr 05 01:32:38 <raster> doc|laptop: the game.. is NOT over
Apr 05 01:32:46 <raster> opemoko gave up
Apr 05 01:32:51 <raster> that doesnt mean the game is over
Apr 05 01:33:13 <Dave> rasterman!
Apr 05 01:33:14 <raster> if u havent noticed the dearth of ex-om and interested parties all babbling about how to do this now?
Apr 05 01:33:15 <raster> :)
Apr 05 01:33:19 <raster> Dave:  moo!
Apr 05 01:33:20 <Dave> Tell that to the pandora ;)
Apr 05 01:33:23 <raster> Dave:  i owe you some docs
Apr 05 01:33:24 <Dave> teehee
Apr 05 01:33:26 <doc|laptop> raster: sure, but in this economy how many people do you expect will take up the ball? :/
Apr 05 01:33:28 <Dave> Yes please.
Apr 05 01:33:31 <Dave> At your leisure
Apr 05 01:33:32 <raster> Dave:  i have swapped emails with craig
Apr 05 01:33:38 <Dave> ah
Apr 05 01:33:41 <raster> but it seems for now he was interested in "i can sell you pandora borads"
Apr 05 01:33:42 <Dave> :)
Apr 05 01:33:44 <raster> whihc isnt much use
Apr 05 01:33:46 <raster> at all
Apr 05 01:33:50 <Dave> meh
Apr 05 01:33:51 <Dave> yeah
Apr 05 01:34:04 <doc|laptop> raster: will any of them be willing/capable of getting as open, or ideally even more open, access to good, up-to-date hardware than OM couldn't? :/
Apr 05 01:34:14 <doc|laptop> *that
Apr 05 01:35:28 * doc|laptop would love to see that happen of course
Apr 05 01:36:00 <raster> doc|laptop: its possible.
Apr 05 01:36:11 <raster> eg - openpandora have gotten a sparkling top-of-the-line cpu
Apr 05 01:36:17 <slaxxin> what would be wrong with just electronics updates to the same phone desigh
Apr 05 01:36:18 <raster> and their production run is 3000 units
Apr 05 01:36:24 <raster> thats < 1/3rd what om made of the gta02
Apr 05 01:36:34 <raster> it is possible to do
Apr 05 01:36:39 <doc|laptop> raster: and decent GSM hardware?
Apr 05 01:36:40 <raster> you may have to accept a high cost though
Apr 05 01:36:51 <raster> doc|laptop:  possible. but tont expect it to be cheap
Apr 05 01:36:54 <doc|laptop> exactly
Apr 05 01:37:03 <raster> as i said
Apr 05 01:37:05 <raster> its not over
Apr 05 01:37:11 <raster> you just will need to accept to pay more
Apr 05 01:37:14 <SeligArkin> money is holding back development, thats my opinion.
Apr 05 01:37:53 <DocScrutinizer> SeligArkin: NO money does ;-)
Apr 05 01:39:30 * SeligArkin likes to beleive humanity would be much farther than it is now if money wasn't such a good motivator, and people worked for the common good rather than finantial gain
Apr 05 01:39:32 <DocScrutinizer> even not development, but mainly MP
Apr 05 01:39:48 <raster> SeligArkin:  money.. or lack thereof?
Apr 05 01:39:52 <DocScrutinizer> MEEH
Apr 05 01:40:41 <fredrin> money == time 
Apr 05 01:41:01 * SeligArkin shrugs and wanders off
Apr 05 01:41:21 <eolson> fredrin, not always, sometimes money == power  (and someone else's time)
Apr 05 01:42:06 <shellevil> dash
Apr 05 01:42:07 <fredrin> eolson: true, with money you can buy other peoples time, and have power over them 
Apr 05 01:42:48 <Dave> :)
Apr 05 01:43:04 <fredrin> money is i someway compressed time :) 
Apr 05 01:43:12 <eolson> fredrin, yeah, unfortunately, a lot of times that's not so good for the other people.  :/
Apr 05 01:44:44 <fredrin> but ultimately you decide what to do with your money/time unless your a slave or in prison 
Apr 05 01:44:46 <fredrin> :)
Apr 05 01:45:33 <slaxxin> i wonder if hans reiser is wrighting code
Apr 05 01:45:42 <fredrin> lol
Apr 05 01:45:55 <mwester> reiser is too busy just staying alive.
Apr 05 01:45:57 <slaxxin> -g
Apr 05 01:46:11 <fredrin> but he can't check the code in for like 50 years to git or svn 
Apr 05 01:46:35 <raster> allowing him to write code would make prison to much fun
Apr 05 01:46:39 <raster> prison is meant to punsih
Apr 05 01:46:46 * mwester is a fan of "hard labor"
Apr 05 01:46:47 <slaxxin> maybe he can smuggle the code
Apr 05 01:46:53 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 01:46:53 <mwester> and pink underwear.
Apr 05 01:46:55 <Dave> haha
Apr 05 01:47:03 <raster> not as a holiday resort for coders to get infinite free time to hack
Apr 05 01:47:03 <raster> :)
Apr 05 01:47:14 <Dave> CRUISE!
Apr 05 01:47:36 * mwester is a fan of Sheriff Joe.
Apr 05 01:47:52 <eolson> fredrin, re: "you decide what to do with your money/time" -- maybe for us, and "technically" for all people, but that's not so true if you don't have basic things and they are only dangerous jobs available.
Apr 05 01:47:54 <mwester> http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/
Apr 05 01:47:55 <DocScrutinizer> oops, your soap ;-)
Apr 05 01:48:06 <raster> Dave:  hmm. actually give me some time
Apr 05 01:48:12 <raster> i really should draw a mockup design
Apr 05 01:48:31 <eolson> I pretty much agree with SeligArkin
Apr 05 01:51:08 <fredrin> reiser could use http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt maybe :D
Apr 05 01:52:03 <doc|laptop> SeligArkin: money means nothing on its own. It's just a proxy for barter.
Apr 05 01:52:31 <doc|laptop> SeligArkin: remove money from the equation and you just kill off what it is that makes demand measurable
Apr 05 01:52:38 <fredrin> doc|laptop: true
Apr 05 01:52:55 <fredrin> a from of comunication tool to make agreements 
Apr 05 01:54:01 <fredrin> but the current centralized global money System is b0rked, make a distributed one and people on the earth would benefit. 
Apr 05 01:54:03 * mwester finds such a succinct summation refreshing,
Apr 05 01:54:06 <eolson> doc|laptop, it's more about selfishness than money per se
Apr 05 01:54:10 <doc|laptop> fredrin: that's a contract 
Apr 05 01:54:22 <doc|laptop> fredrin: money is just what's used to settle the contract :)
Apr 05 01:54:25 <fredrin> it's actualy a paradox that there 'is not enough money' 
Apr 05 01:54:45 <fredrin> eolson: de design of the monetarysystem is to flow in to the center
Apr 05 01:54:56 <fredrin> banks and sentral banks 
Apr 05 01:54:58 <doc|laptop> fredrin: not at all, the world has limited resources (time and materials). Unlimited money would lead to unlimited prices.
Apr 05 01:55:16 <doc|laptop> fredrin: that's not because of markets but because of politics.
Apr 05 01:55:26 <doc|laptop> fredrin: the markets want to break out of that but the politicians prevent it
Apr 05 01:55:28 <mwester> Ok, you've both demonstrated that you are better qualified to fix the US economy than Obama and Geitner.  : p  :D
Apr 05 01:55:36 <doc|laptop> sweet
Apr 05 01:55:43 <doc|laptop> I'd demand their job but fuck that shit.
Apr 05 01:55:44 <fredrin> nah, the current system is about 300 years old, started by the goldsmiths 
Apr 05 01:55:44 <doc|laptop> :)
Apr 05 01:55:56 * doc|laptop does not want to have to play that deck of cards
Apr 05 01:56:02 <doc|laptop> fredrin: nope, not at all
Apr 05 01:56:19 <mwester> doc|laptop:  I think that's the general problem -- the people that CAN do the job don't want anything to do with it.
Apr 05 01:56:32 <mwester> Which leaves the lawyers.
Apr 05 01:56:41 <doc|laptop> fredrin: the current system is a bastardised version of the system of old, but the market limits have been taken off and now everything's propped up on fake money (and therefore happy thoughts)
Apr 05 01:57:25 <fredrin> doc|laptop: i can agree with that more or less
Apr 05 01:57:44 <eolson> doc|laptop, so are you in favor of stock markets?
Apr 05 01:58:07 <doc|laptop> fredrin: the only reason that happened is because politicians made it law that that was how it must work. "You will use X currency for taxes and you must accept it for payment of debts" which basically gives them a monopoly over the currency.
Apr 05 01:58:12 <doc|laptop> eolson: absolutely
Apr 05 01:58:24 <DocScrutinizer> sure Bayer (for aspirin)
Apr 05 01:59:00 <doc|laptop> eolson: but also of proper deregulation of them. The SEC does a terrible job, but it's thought that they can regulate them properly. They can't and they have enough power (via the government) to try to fix things.
Apr 05 01:59:17 <doc|laptop> but in "fixing" things they're screwing them up even worse
Apr 05 01:59:31 <eolson> doc|laptop, ah yes, deregulation is the key! /sarcasm
Apr 05 01:59:33 <husku> hehe. like it would matter what you think :)
Apr 05 01:59:38 <fredrin> doc|laptop: true, but the evil thing is that it's illegal to make a competing system. 
Apr 05 01:59:41 <doc|laptop> they (with the treasury, fed etc) are keeping bad businesses alive
Apr 05 02:00:01 <doc|laptop> eolson: erm, the government is the only thing keeping most of these assholes in jobs
Apr 05 02:00:14 <fredrin> stock market is more a riged game
Apr 05 02:00:17 <fredrin> like a casino 
Apr 05 02:00:20 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:00:23 <doc|laptop> eolson: the financial industry is the most regulated industry existence. You still think regulation works?
Apr 05 02:00:36 <fredrin> the house wins, but the consept of stocks is not stupid 
Apr 05 02:00:41 <doc|laptop> eolson: look into history and you'll see that there was more competition before the regulation we have now
Apr 05 02:00:57 <eolson> doc|laptop, I'm going with: finance industry is a casino
Apr 05 02:01:00 <doc|laptop> eolson: and what's more, small banks were growing their market share at the expense of bigger ones
Apr 05 02:01:06 <eolson> doc|laptop, who has the money is in charge
Apr 05 02:01:15 <doc|laptop> eolson: this one is, but it's that because the government is pulling the strings
Apr 05 02:01:27 <fredrin> and bankers 
Apr 05 02:01:35 <fredrin> that pulls governments 
Apr 05 02:01:36 <eolson> doc|laptop, nope, money will be in charge if you don't have regulations too.
Apr 05 02:02:11 <doc|laptop> eolson: they (the government) recently suspended mark to market, which means the bankers can price things at what they think they should be worth rather than what they're actually worth. So all you'll see now is better results based on phoney numbers.
Apr 05 02:02:31 <doc|laptop> eolson: yeah, but without the regulations the banks don't get bailouts
Apr 05 02:02:51 <doc|laptop> eolson: they have to stand on their own two feet. Bad banks go bust, good ones get their business.
Apr 05 02:02:51 <fredrin> om should get a bailout lol
Apr 05 02:03:00 <fredrin> just 10% of a AIG bonus 
Apr 05 02:03:31 <Dave> :p
Apr 05 02:03:32 <Dave> wtf
Apr 05 02:03:34 <eolson> doc|laptop, it's not one or the other --> bailouts or regulation.  I agree, banks should have to stand up by themselves.  The problem now is they're so big, they're linked to the economy
Apr 05 02:03:36 <Dave> OM BAILOUT?
Apr 05 02:03:45 <doc|laptop> eolson: sure, but why is that?
Apr 05 02:04:07 <doc|laptop> eolson: what other business is so important that if it fails the entire economy of countries can fall apart? Why is that?
Apr 05 02:04:08 <eolson> doc|laptop, because money controls the government
Apr 05 02:04:09 <fredrin> lol too big to fail
Apr 05 02:04:21 <doc|laptop> eolson: nope, because they work on leverage. legally mandated leverage.
Apr 05 02:04:24 <fredrin> that was the logic of dinosaurus too 
Apr 05 02:04:47 <KenYoung> I;m eating more candy.   I'll be too big to fail soon.
Apr 05 02:05:03 <eolson> one good thing, bad economy --> good for open source :)
Apr 05 02:05:08 <DocScrutinizer> wtf?! *I* should get a bailout
Apr 05 02:05:19 <doc|laptop> no one should get a bailout
Apr 05 02:05:24 <doc|laptop> stand on your own two feet :)
Apr 05 02:05:28 <doc|laptop> stop spending my money
Apr 05 02:05:47 <doc|laptop> bad businesses must fail, otherwise it's just wasted money
Apr 05 02:05:56 * doc|laptop realises where he's saying that :)
Apr 05 02:06:12 <rooly1> okay
Apr 05 02:06:19 <tessier> So...WTF? :P
Apr 05 02:06:25 <Dave> rooly :D
Apr 05 02:06:28 <Dave> Heh, Ken :P
Apr 05 02:06:39 <rooly1> wtf
Apr 05 02:06:39 <fredrin> true, the governments should just do nothing and let things implode by it self, but of course governemnts always must do somethings
Apr 05 02:06:43 * DocScrutinizer a bad business???  :)
Apr 05 02:06:53 <rooly1> i sorta just found out about this discontinuation thing
Apr 05 02:07:00 <rooly1> and like i said
Apr 05 02:07:00 <doc|laptop> fredrin: they've spent trillions of your money and your kids money, nothing has changed.
Apr 05 02:07:01 <rooly1> wtf
Apr 05 02:07:09 <slaxxin> i say let em fry
Apr 05 02:07:23 <doc|laptop> fredrin: things are not improving, in fact, they're just devaluing savings of those who didn't get into debt. It's all a scam. :(
Apr 05 02:07:25 <fredrin> doc|laptop: the governemnt of norway don't get my money 
Apr 05 02:07:43 <doc|laptop> fredrin: if you have savings they do. Look up the "inflation tax"
Apr 05 02:07:46 <KenYoung> doc|laptop, Look on the bright side.   By the end of the Obama administration, we'll all be millionaires.
Apr 05 02:07:55 <rooly1> ...
Apr 05 02:07:57 <doc|laptop> KenYoung: :D
Apr 05 02:08:04 <eolson> doc|laptop, actually, i think they're reducing the budget deficiet -- but I don't like big company bailouts either
Apr 05 02:08:09 <doc|laptop> KenYoung: zimbabwe stylee!
Apr 05 02:08:18 <KenYoung> You betcha
Apr 05 02:08:21 <doc|laptop> eolson: hahahaahahah, and if you believe that I've got a bridge for sale
Apr 05 02:08:24 <doc|laptop> ;)
Apr 05 02:08:41 <tessier> I bought an OLPC laptop and a Freerunner wanting to support the cause. I guess I've gambled and lost on both.
Apr 05 02:08:41 <Dave> :P
Apr 05 02:08:57 <doc|laptop> tessier: I'm beginning to think I'm the kiss of death for stuff :)
Apr 05 02:09:05 * doc|laptop should buy a WM6 phone
Apr 05 02:09:49 <DocScrutinizer> doc|laptop: have a lot of fun with it! XD
Apr 05 02:10:03 <doc|laptop> :(
Apr 05 02:10:13 <Dave> :(
Apr 05 02:11:32 <mjr> the aux button should do something on the om2008, yes?
Apr 05 02:11:32 <DocScrutinizer> wm6 makes me want to use my microwave ;-)
Apr 05 02:11:38 <doc|laptop> DocScrutinizer: haha
Apr 05 02:11:45 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:11:48 <Dave> bBzzzzzzzzzzzzzzap
Apr 05 02:11:54 <Dave> *arc* *arc* *sizzle*
Apr 05 02:12:02 <doc|laptop> DocScrutinizer: there are samsung blackjacks here for 149. I'm kinda tempted. At least those would work :( 
Apr 05 02:12:04 <Dave> sounds much like my laptop last week :D
Apr 05 02:12:22 <Dave> Btw, my fix seems to have gone over without a hitch :D
Apr 05 02:12:23 <fredrin> no, beer time 
Apr 05 02:12:25 <eolson> doc|laptop, what's wronger with your freerunner?
Apr 05 02:12:55 <doc|laptop> eolson: even with shr it's far from ideal. I mean, I use my phone mostly for texts, but the messaging app doesn't even match numbers against my contacts.
Apr 05 02:13:10 <slaxxin> what no frying?
Apr 05 02:13:24 <doc|laptop> eolson: hopefully things will improve with the upcoming release
Apr 05 02:13:35 <doc|laptop> but apparently that's not high on their list :/
Apr 05 02:13:46 <eolson> doc|laptop, ok, I don't sms much and I'm using FSO until SHR is released, so I can't help you much there.
Apr 05 02:14:03 <slaxxin> i have seen a lot of misdirection
Apr 05 02:14:13 <doc|laptop> slaxxin: hmm?
Apr 05 02:14:18 * rooly sighs
Apr 05 02:14:46 * Dave pats rooly on the back
Apr 05 02:14:48 <fredrin> om lacks a dictator 
Apr 05 02:14:48 <DocScrutinizer> joerg sighs too
Apr 05 02:14:52 <Dave> there, there... man
Apr 05 02:14:56 <fredrin> Dave: step up to the job
Apr 05 02:14:58 <slaxxin> saying 1 thing then doing the  something completely different
Apr 05 02:14:59 <doc|laptop> DocScrutinizer: pm?
Apr 05 02:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> huh? joerg@om?
Apr 05 02:15:21 * XorA guessed the topic of conversation from the /. ing :-)
Apr 05 02:16:01 <doc|laptop> actually, nevermind
Apr 05 02:16:05 * rooly read it, went to the blogs, and figured, "eh, what the hell"
Apr 05 02:16:27 <rooly> so
Apr 05 02:16:32 <rooly> i'll be going to bed soon
Apr 05 02:16:40 <rooly> because nobody is onat all
Apr 05 02:17:08 <rooly> and by nobody i of course mean the people i want to talk to
Apr 05 02:17:17 <DocScrutinizer> rooly: :))
Apr 05 02:17:36 <DocScrutinizer> bah
Apr 05 02:17:46 <XorA> hey DocScrutinizer did you never finish that reading?
Apr 05 02:17:59 <rooly> has anyone tested qtei?
Apr 05 02:18:03 <DocScrutinizer> XorA: reading?
Apr 05 02:18:12 <XorA> Scrutinizing
Apr 05 02:18:26 <DocScrutinizer> nope, it's a tick
Apr 05 02:18:46 <rooly> so nobody
Apr 05 02:18:56 <DocScrutinizer> others read books, me reads schem
Apr 05 02:20:51 <DocScrutinizer> good schem or datasheet I even might read again after some time, for the mere fun, despite knowing them by heart ;-)
Apr 05 02:25:20 <DocScrutinizer> but sometimes I'm playing pinball for leisure
Apr 05 02:25:58 <DocScrutinizer> or read schem of the pinball machine ;D
Apr 05 02:26:46 * SeligArkin wanders back in
Apr 05 02:27:07 <Dave> SELIG
Apr 05 02:27:14 <SeligArkin> DAVE
Apr 05 02:27:20 * Dave bombards Seligarkin with malfunctioning freerunners
Apr 05 02:27:25 <SeligArkin> eep
Apr 05 02:28:58 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:29:39 * SeligArkin counters with... defective software!
Apr 05 02:29:45 <Dave> AAAAAAAAAH :D
Apr 05 02:29:48 <Dave> kinky :p
Apr 05 02:29:53 <SeligArkin> :p
Apr 05 02:30:07 <SeligArkin> you look at a wall and think 'kinky' don't you? :P
Apr 05 02:30:16 <Dave> Nah
Apr 05 02:30:20 <eolson> you mean mirror
Apr 05 02:30:21 <Dave> maybe your basement lair though ;p
Apr 05 02:30:43 <SeligArkin> I have a basement lair?
Apr 05 02:31:05 <SeligArkin> Oh well I have a small section of basement with lots of electronic stuff I got, but thats hardly kinky
Apr 05 02:31:23 <Dave> :]
Apr 05 02:31:25 <Dave> says you :p
Apr 05 02:31:44 <SeligArkin> heh
Apr 05 02:32:00 * DocScrutinizer triggers the big gdb
Apr 05 02:33:25 * SeligArkin ponders
Apr 05 02:33:27 <DocScrutinizer> and an EMP to intercept stray FR
Apr 05 02:33:34 <Dave> fuck my freerunner needs more memory
Apr 05 02:33:41 <SeligArkin> MOAr MEMOrY!
Apr 05 02:33:48 <Dave> something like that, yeah
Apr 05 02:33:58 <doc|laptop> and a faster proc :)
Apr 05 02:33:59 * rooly question marks to dave
Apr 05 02:34:05 <doc|laptop> and a better gsm chip :)
Apr 05 02:34:10 <SeligArkin> That reminds me
Apr 05 02:34:13 * doc|laptop unhappy
Apr 05 02:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> fsck gsm chip. laser uplink
Apr 05 02:34:45 * SeligArkin questioning universe for giving her this complex mind
Apr 05 02:34:45 <doc|laptop> does that need line of sight? :)
Apr 05 02:35:15 * rooly slaps SeligArkin
Apr 05 02:35:17 <rooly> go get me a beer
Apr 05 02:35:25 <DocScrutinizer> doc|laptop: has enough power - always line of sight ;P
Apr 05 02:35:29 * SeligArkin stabs rooly with a conceiled knife
Apr 05 02:35:43 <doc|laptop> DocScrutinizer: haha
Apr 05 02:35:48 <doc|laptop> touche
Apr 05 02:35:48 * rooly dodges like jesus
Apr 05 02:35:53 <doc|laptop> haha
Apr 05 02:36:44 <SeligArkin> I hope there isn't a 'God' Because if there is, he is evil. >:(
Apr 05 02:37:29 <rooly> why would 'god' be evil?
Apr 05 02:37:39 <KenYoung> God isn't dead.   He's just out of ammo.
Apr 05 02:38:02 * rooly gets a flash of the 'reload-reload' screen on area51 arcade games
Apr 05 02:38:07 <SeligArkin> for giving me this confusing mind, I am not in the mood to explain what it is to random people today. :P
Apr 05 02:38:09 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:38:25 <rooly> okay
Apr 05 02:38:26 <Dave> reload reload!
Apr 05 02:38:28 <rooly> how about unrooly people
Apr 05 02:38:34 <Dave> heh heh
Apr 05 02:38:38 <Dave> that's what I always say ;)
Apr 05 02:39:02 * SeligArkin flails at the 'vi' implementation SHR has
Apr 05 02:39:02 <DocScrutinizer> KenYoung: lol
Apr 05 02:39:05 <rooly> somebody recently, chocks i think, came up with a crap load of good ones
Apr 05 02:39:08 <doc|laptop> rooly: god is the one who wiped out most of the population with a giant flood. You think he's not evil? :)
Apr 05 02:39:49 <rooly> what makes human death particularly evil?
Apr 05 02:39:53 <rooly> i mean, we die anyway
Apr 05 02:40:03 <rooly> it just happened to streamline the process
Apr 05 02:40:10 <rooly> and by stream i really mean ocean
Apr 05 02:40:24 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:40:28 <SeligArkin> rooly: out of curiosity, what is your view on murder, then? :P
Apr 05 02:40:43 <SeligArkin> if it's alright for god to do it, I can do it, too, can't I?
Apr 05 02:40:51 <doc|laptop> rooly: haha
Apr 05 02:40:57 <rooly> my personal opinion? i find murder most distasteful
Apr 05 02:41:02 <rooly> i'm just presenting counterpoints
Apr 05 02:41:04 <rooly> its what i do
Apr 05 02:41:06 <doc|laptop> not to mention, impolite
Apr 05 02:41:07 <SeligArkin> ah
Apr 05 02:41:20 <rooly> but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do
Apr 05 02:41:36 * SeligArkin flails some more at the SHR image
Apr 05 02:41:43 <SeligArkin> striped down utilitys == FAIL
Apr 05 02:41:46 <rooly> i murdered a few billion microbes recently
Apr 05 02:42:19 <DocScrutinizer> when god built this testset he introduced elements of local negative entropy. he had been warned it would end like this
Apr 05 02:42:21 <doc|laptop> rooly: we don't really need to know what you do when you close your bedroom curtains
Apr 05 02:43:49 <rooly1> yeah...
Apr 05 02:44:22 <rooly> so what were we talking about before i was so rudely interupted by a disconnect?
Apr 05 02:44:43 <SeligArkin> how you killed a few billion babys recently
Apr 05 02:44:48 <doc|laptop> potential babies
Apr 05 02:44:58 <SeligArkin> sorry, potiental babys
Apr 05 02:45:01 <doc|laptop> :)
Apr 05 02:45:04 <rooly> microbes
Apr 05 02:45:28 <Dave> Hey Selig, want to come over tomorrow, get some freerunner action going? :P
Apr 05 02:45:35 <Dave> We'll terrorize the neighborhood :p
Apr 05 02:45:40 <rooly> ooo...bow chicka bow-wow
Apr 05 02:45:43 <rooly> hmm
Apr 05 02:45:47 <Dave> hah
Apr 05 02:45:47 * rooly has an idea
Apr 05 02:45:48 <doc|laptop> hahaha
Apr 05 02:45:50 <Dave> uh oh
Apr 05 02:45:52 <SeligArkin> Dave: heh
Apr 05 02:45:53 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:46:01 <rooly> cantenna for the FR
Apr 05 02:46:11 <Dave> I have a large antenna
Apr 05 02:46:18 <Dave> but yeah rooly, that's pretty badass
Apr 05 02:46:22 <rooly> ...
Apr 05 02:46:22 <rooly> bow chicka bow-wow?
Apr 05 02:46:28 <Dave> HAHAHAHAHA
Apr 05 02:46:29 <Dave> oh gawd :P
Apr 05 02:46:30 <rooly> fix in merely split seconds
Apr 05 02:46:32 <SeligArkin> It's true, I have seen it!
Apr 05 02:46:36 <rooly> !?
Apr 05 02:46:36 <Dave> :O
Apr 05 02:46:41 <SeligArkin> :O
Apr 05 02:46:41 <Dave> sssssssh!
Apr 05 02:46:49 <rooly> no, its just sh
Apr 05 02:46:54 <rooly> and in cygwin, sh.exe
Apr 05 02:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> hualp
Apr 05 02:47:10 <SeligArkin> ... I should replace sh with a shell script
Apr 05 02:47:25 <DocScrutinizer> hehehehehe
Apr 05 02:47:30 <SeligArkin> I wonder how bad that would break stuff
Apr 05 02:47:53 <rooly> very very much
Apr 05 02:47:58 <rooly> since sh has specific formatting
Apr 05 02:48:06 <rooly> each terminal has specific formatting
Apr 05 02:48:11 <DocScrutinizer> like a dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sda ?
Apr 05 02:48:14 * rooly 'duhs' but still
Apr 05 02:48:31 <SeligArkin> I know that replaceing cat with a shell script breaks ubuntu's login. >.>
Apr 05 02:48:40 <SeligArkin> and it breaks uname also, I think
Apr 05 02:48:42 <rooly> orly?
Apr 05 02:48:49 <SeligArkin> yes
Apr 05 02:48:52 <rooly> neato
Apr 05 02:49:00 <DocScrutinizer> replacing cat by mouse even worse
Apr 05 02:49:01 * doc|laptop stabs canadian telcos
Apr 05 02:49:13 <rooly> what if i replace cat with a shell script that calls catto which is simply cat renamed
Apr 05 02:49:14 <SeligArkin> I replaced it with a shell script consisting of 'echo Meow'
Apr 05 02:49:19 <Dave> ;D
Apr 05 02:49:26 <mjr> mmh, what to use on a gta01 that'd somewhat work as a phone?
Apr 05 02:49:35 <doc|laptop> $25+$6.95 "access fee" for 500mb
Apr 05 02:49:40 <Dave> ouch!
Apr 05 02:49:47 <Dave> I was just about to ask, doc :)
Apr 05 02:50:03 <SeligArkin> it went to console login, with 'Meow' as the computer name, iirc
Apr 05 02:50:06 * rooly got into a 'fight' with his dramatic roomate today
Apr 05 02:50:06 <Dave> I was talking with someone else here the other night about data rates and canuck carriers :]
Apr 05 02:50:14 <Dave> uh oh ¬_¬
Apr 05 02:50:22 <doc|laptop> Dave: stupid canadian regulators :(
Apr 05 02:50:28 <SeligArkin> rooly: did you catch them wearing your makeup again?
Apr 05 02:50:37 <doc|laptop> "let's limit competition! yey!"
Apr 05 02:50:46 <rooly> little bitch got upset that i forgot an empty plate and plastic bottle on the coffee table and didn't pick it up before he got back from work
Apr 05 02:50:53 <rooly> which was about 2 hours before me
Apr 05 02:50:58 <rooly> so he went a threw it in my room
Apr 05 02:51:24 <rooly> so i went and told him, "you really didn't have to do that, you know."
Apr 05 02:51:25 <Dave> :\
Apr 05 02:51:29 <rooly> calmly, simply
Apr 05 02:51:35 <Dave> hey, it's the canadian way! ;D
Apr 05 02:51:37 <rooly> he instantly got definsive and accusing
Apr 05 02:51:51 <rooly> so i responded, "okay, we'll play that game if you really want"
Apr 05 02:51:59 <Dave> OH SNAP
Apr 05 02:52:05 <Dave> No he di'int!
Apr 05 02:52:10 <rooly> so tomorrow i'm gonna throw all his dirty clothes that he leaves in the goddam bathroom back on his bed
Apr 05 02:52:18 <rooly> which is a pile about 2 ft high
Apr 05 02:52:20 <Dave> rooly
Apr 05 02:52:23 <Dave> you need a new roommate
Apr 05 02:52:26 <rooly> i know
Apr 05 02:52:31 <rooly> but i don't get one til he gets fired
Apr 05 02:52:35 <DocScrutinizer> a new flat
Apr 05 02:52:36 <rooly> which can't be much longer
Apr 05 02:52:42 <doc|laptop> rooly: why not move out?
Apr 05 02:52:51 <Dave> uhhh
Apr 05 02:52:55 <rooly> cause i'm a tenant at a work appartment
Apr 05 02:52:58 <doc|laptop> wait, are you my housemate? don't move out :(
Apr 05 02:53:02 * doc|laptop jokes
Apr 05 02:53:10 <Dave> oh :\
Apr 05 02:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Apr 05 02:53:21 <rooly> and its stay here or in my car
Apr 05 02:53:26 <doc|laptop> hmmm
Apr 05 02:53:29 <doc|laptop> how big is the car?
Apr 05 02:53:31 <rooly> and my car isn't very comfortable to sleep in
Apr 05 02:53:34 <doc|laptop> ;)
Apr 05 02:53:35 <DocScrutinizer> wasn't there a movie called "email"?
Apr 05 02:53:37 <rooly> its a 99 honda accord 2-door
Apr 05 02:53:41 <doc|laptop> fair enough
Apr 05 02:53:49 <rooly> DocScrutinizer: "You've got mail"
Apr 05 02:54:12 <rooly> with whats-his-name from the dan brown movie
Apr 05 02:54:19 <ndnihil> yayyyyy, ive got mail, ive got mail, ive got mail, yayyyyyy
Apr 05 02:54:19 <DocScrutinizer> that's the one
Apr 05 02:54:47 <rooly> and whats her name from the lawyer-chick-sues-chemical-company-that-poisened-population-of-town
Apr 05 02:55:09 <eolson> brokovich
Apr 05 02:55:12 <rooly> yeah
Apr 05 02:55:28 * DocScrutinizer is alway mombling "eeeww, another mail. eek still another one" ;)
Apr 05 02:55:42 * rooly just glances at them now
Apr 05 02:55:45 <Dave> poor rooly
Apr 05 02:55:48 <rooly> i don't even 'mark all as read' anymore
Apr 05 02:55:52 <rooly> poor me?
Apr 05 02:55:57 <rooly> why poorme
Apr 05 02:56:04 <rooly> i'm going to exact vengeance
Apr 05 02:56:11 <SeligArkin> because you are about to get fired
Apr 05 02:56:11 <rooly> if a game is going to be played, i will win
Apr 05 02:56:22 <rooly> me?
Apr 05 02:56:22 <Dave> take pictures
Apr 05 02:56:23 <rooly> no
Apr 05 02:56:25 <rooly> impossible
Apr 05 02:56:27 <Dave> post online
Apr 05 02:56:32 <rooly> i won't get fired unless i cuss out my boss
Apr 05 02:56:34 <Dave> rooly can't get fired
Apr 05 02:56:36 <Dave> he's too awesome
Apr 05 02:56:37 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:56:39 <rooly> nope
Apr 05 02:56:47 <rooly> that and...me dad owns j00
Apr 05 02:56:57 <rooly> please slap me if i ever say that again
Apr 05 02:57:02 <SeligArkin> your dad is my pimp?
Apr 05 02:57:13 <rooly> sure sure
Apr 05 02:57:22 <Dave> :D
Apr 05 02:57:25 <rooly> more specifically tho, he's the owner of the company
Apr 05 02:57:30 <Dave> OH
Apr 05 02:57:32 <Dave> hahahahahaha
Apr 05 02:57:34 <rooly> so me getting fired? not gonna happen unless i cuss him out
Apr 05 02:57:51 <rooly> plus i do my job
Apr 05 02:58:03 <rooly> and show up on time about 98% of the time
Apr 05 02:58:08 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf j00
Apr 05 02:58:09 <SeligArkin> or so you say
Apr 05 02:58:10 <apt> Gee...  I don't know what j00 means... 
Apr 05 02:58:39 <SeligArkin> junction 00?
Apr 05 02:58:55 <Dave> hope it pays
Apr 05 02:58:57 <rooly> i think its a dot-product between racists, anti-semites, and script kidies, all wrapped up into a nice bit of 'leet-speak'
Apr 05 02:58:59 <doc|laptop> I think he's being anti-semitic
Apr 05 02:59:04 <Dave> hope it's worth staying with an asshat roommate
Apr 05 02:59:10 <Dave> cute
Apr 05 02:59:10 <rooly> dave, its not
Apr 05 02:59:21 <Dave> :|
Apr 05 02:59:50 <eolson> rooly, you could live with your boss
Apr 05 02:59:54 <rooly> but i either sink into the lappy, stay out of the apt all evening until he's gone to bed, and more usually, he just doesn't stay in here because there's nobody to bitch at
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 05 02:59:57 2009