**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 06 02:59:58 2009 Apr 06 03:03:33 dave, don't look at it! we need it. It'll break ;P Apr 06 03:04:09 ahahahahahahahahahahahaha Apr 06 03:04:13 :) Apr 06 03:05:02 Dave: as i siad.. need to do a better doc Apr 06 03:05:10 that is somethign that can be built on for ideas Apr 06 03:12:52 Yes :) Apr 06 03:13:06 And lets not just create a wiki ;) Apr 06 03:13:14 god no Apr 06 03:13:18 i hate wikis Apr 06 03:13:21 stupid things Apr 06 03:13:34 i mean, its a great idea for something like an encyclopedia Apr 06 03:13:43 a culmonation of all knowledge Apr 06 03:13:59 by hunderds of millions of people Apr 06 03:14:10 I mean, hey, we all see how well Openmoko did with that :D Apr 06 03:20:50 mail? Apr 06 03:25:55 clowns Apr 06 03:26:09 As threaten, I'm making my own distro :p Based upon Emdebian Grip. Apr 06 03:27:10 huh Apr 06 03:30:39 http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-distributions-5/why-is-there-no-forum-for-my-distro-513876/ Apr 06 03:31:11 heh, I can guess what it might say before I read it. Apr 06 03:31:20 * Chocky puts on irony hat first, then reads Apr 06 03:31:50 this would stop all the reasking an reanswering a multitude of questions an greatly streamline this process Apr 06 03:32:13 My question, however, is about SHR. its is e17 itself which provides the launcher buttons, or some sub thing? Apr 06 03:32:21 Gah. Apr 06 03:32:27 s/its/Is it/ Apr 06 06:15:35 so, what do you guys think about this news that openmoko is downsizing? Apr 06 06:19:55 MokoN00b: its the trandy thing to do Apr 06 06:19:58 trendy Apr 06 06:20:08 hahaha Apr 06 06:20:29 i just wondered if there were any interesting opinions on this channel Apr 06 06:21:03 since you guys are a little closer to the situation Apr 06 06:21:05 where one entities vision has burned to a crisp, another has (I hope) been born anew from the ashes. Apr 06 06:21:44 it doesnt sound like a complete breakdown to me Apr 06 06:21:51 but that might just be spin Apr 06 06:22:10 eh, they stopped development on the gta03, and fired a good portion of their development staff Apr 06 06:22:43 the question is: what does that leave for the future? Apr 06 06:23:08 businesses always have a plan to continue -- if theyre not in bankruptcy Apr 06 06:23:09 of? Apr 06 06:23:24 openmoko has apparently moved on to "project b" Apr 06 06:23:44 i think the plan _of_ the future was our plan -- not theirs Apr 06 06:23:47 :) Apr 06 06:24:03 but, in theory you can load FSO on the developer version of the g1 Apr 06 06:24:08 yeah, so, im kinda wondering what plan B is Apr 06 06:24:10 so that might be worth checking out Apr 06 06:24:54 ive had FSO running on the debian version -- once Apr 06 06:25:12 I'm talking about the google g1 phone Apr 06 06:25:17 that runs android by default Apr 06 06:25:23 oh Apr 06 06:25:25 yeah Apr 06 06:25:35 but ive been running android on the freerunner Apr 06 06:25:47 and i dont want to give HTC any of my limbs Apr 06 06:26:20 the G1 is something like twice the cost of the free runner Apr 06 06:26:25 then pick up a g1 off craigslist, dump the leaked bootloader to it, and they wont see a penny Apr 06 06:26:31 s/free runner/FreeRunner Apr 06 06:26:57 :) Apr 06 06:27:17 good idea Apr 06 06:27:56 I havent seen a g1 in person, but spec-wise it's superior hardware Apr 06 06:28:31 would it be possible to flash older HTC phones? Apr 06 06:28:49 possible to flash them, yes of course Apr 06 06:28:57 depends on what you want to flash them with I suppose :) Apr 06 06:29:01 hahahaha Apr 06 06:29:27 okay, would it be reasonably doable or would it be exceptionally difficult? Apr 06 06:29:32 no idea Apr 06 06:29:48 I know nothing of htc phones Apr 06 06:30:07 i figure their internal hardware is pretty uniform Apr 06 06:30:10 all my phone experience is motorola, with some nokia and oki thrown in, and now the FR Apr 06 06:30:32 before android, they only had windows mobile Apr 06 06:30:41 as much as I love motorola hardware, p2k pisses me the hell off Apr 06 06:31:18 p2k? Apr 06 06:31:34 protocol used to talk to moto Apr 06 06:31:45 oh Apr 06 06:31:54 you mean for syncing and stuff like that? Apr 06 06:32:09 that, and more low level stuff Apr 06 06:32:13 seem edits and the like Apr 06 06:32:19 yeah Apr 06 06:32:35 though I did all my transfer stuff in AT mode Apr 06 06:32:40 for contacts and whatnot Apr 06 06:32:51 i wish they were smart enough to just include a save personal data to SD card function Apr 06 06:33:05 wait Apr 06 06:33:09 you found a way to do that? Apr 06 06:33:14 where is the data stored Apr 06 06:33:18 i never could find it Apr 06 06:33:42 i can create a restorable backup, but the file is in some strange format Apr 06 06:34:00 it allows me to migrate, but not to transfer the data to any other system Apr 06 06:34:01 hrm, hang on I think I have some notes regarding it laying around Apr 06 06:34:07 kewl Apr 06 06:38:12 hang on a bit longer, work call Apr 06 06:38:26 okay Apr 06 06:38:33 whenever youre ready Apr 06 06:38:52 i will never complain when somebody is doing be a favor Apr 06 06:39:04 8-) Apr 06 06:41:33 hrm, have your moto connected and in AT mode? Apr 06 06:41:54 AT+MMGL="HEADER ONLY" Apr 06 06:41:59 will get a list of SMS messages Apr 06 06:42:18 interesting Apr 06 06:42:25 AT+MMGR=NNNN (index number) will read specific messages Apr 06 06:42:46 hrm, this dump has no contacts Apr 06 06:42:47 so, a script would have to be written to extract all of the messages, i assume Apr 06 06:42:50 * ndnihil searches some more Apr 06 06:42:56 yeah, I did mine in a perl script Apr 06 06:43:03 i was figuring Apr 06 06:43:14 because i have more than 800 messages on my phone Apr 06 06:43:15 :) Apr 06 06:43:22 and thats just the inbox Apr 06 06:43:47 i tell that to people who use nokia, and they have strokes Apr 06 06:44:14 * ndnihil checks the laptop Apr 06 06:44:16 :-P Apr 06 06:46:58 morning Apr 06 06:47:27 http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1406342 Apr 06 06:48:04 there's some more info about the phonebook Apr 06 06:48:14 cant find my notes regarding it Apr 06 06:49:00 well, dont kill yourself looking for it Apr 06 06:49:05 it was a casual inquiry Apr 06 06:49:21 eh you get the idea Apr 06 06:49:31 anyway, i agree with the syncing issue, although i rarely if ever use sync, anyway Apr 06 06:49:36 you can find the full AT command set for motorola on das interweb Apr 06 06:49:51 my first PDA was an iPAQ Apr 06 06:50:12 ipaq.... aaah memories Apr 06 06:50:13 mine was a tuPAC, then he got all famous and quit Apr 06 06:50:17 * raster remembers his 3660 Apr 06 06:50:23 and after using ActiveSync about once, i decided it was better to use the SD card reader Apr 06 06:50:39 mornin raster Apr 06 06:50:41 yeah, i still feel guilty about that Apr 06 06:50:50 i think thats the only time i willingly paid MS Apr 06 06:52:31 ndnihil: booyah! Apr 06 06:52:48 set on the GTA-killer design yet? Apr 06 06:52:57 hahahaha Apr 06 06:53:03 MokoN00b: my 3660 lasted about a day on pocketpc... and was reflashed Apr 06 06:53:16 ndnihil: i'm drawing up a nice "design" image Apr 06 06:53:24 at least there will be somethnig sexy to look at Apr 06 06:53:25 yeah, we need you to save us from openmokos apparent demise Apr 06 06:53:29 in y docs Apr 06 06:53:43 longitudinal clamshell with standard keypad on the outside I hope??? :) Apr 06 06:53:52 i reflashed my ipaq, too, but MS still got paid for the OS Apr 06 06:53:58 :'( Apr 06 06:54:12 it was a 3860 Apr 06 06:54:22 i bought it so i could reflash it Apr 06 06:54:35 ndnihil: no. Apr 06 06:54:44 right now.. no keypad Apr 06 06:55:13 i just dont want to deal with it atm Apr 06 06:55:36 even a standard 12 button numeric? Apr 06 06:55:53 soft keyboards are better Apr 06 06:55:55 :) Apr 06 06:56:03 nup Apr 06 06:56:11 right now.. zero buttons Apr 06 06:56:12 in some ways yes, but you cant use them by feel to make a simple phone call Apr 06 06:56:19 i'm gettign my shape right Apr 06 06:56:32 people call.. numbers? Apr 06 06:56:37 on occasion Apr 06 06:56:38 odd Apr 06 06:56:41 yes Apr 06 06:56:44 "occasion" Apr 06 06:56:52 thats the point :) you dont design for occasianal use Apr 06 06:56:56 you design for common use Apr 06 06:56:57 :) Apr 06 06:57:05 (and occasional use you make possible) Apr 06 06:57:06 :) Apr 06 06:57:20 most of my phone use is simple calls Apr 06 06:57:29 and sms Apr 06 06:58:13 but I guess that's because I'm not carrying the FR regularly Apr 06 06:58:38 well, my phone is my stereo, my video player, my library, and stores many of my new ideas Apr 06 06:58:48 everyone is different Apr 06 06:58:52 speaking of, recommendations for a simple IMAPS/POP3S mail client? Apr 06 06:59:07 i'm drawing up a design Apr 06 06:59:12 it is just a drawing Apr 06 06:59:14 it can be changed Apr 06 06:59:44 but i dont want to ruin the shiny curve of its front surface with a keypad Apr 06 06:59:51 dont get me wrong, a keypad is far from being a dealbreaker, but would come in handy walking through airports, driving a car, etc.. Apr 06 07:00:00 no need to devote full focus to the device Apr 06 07:00:20 maybe a detachable one might be nice Apr 06 07:00:33 eh, just one more thing to carry around Apr 06 07:00:42 the P800 had a removable keypad Apr 06 07:00:46 like the stylus with the FR Apr 06 07:00:53 it has no place to put the stylus Apr 06 07:01:00 that wouldnt have counted for weight Apr 06 07:01:03 and that's rather annoying when you just want to throw it in your pocket Apr 06 07:01:29 yeah, i like the moto phones stylus design Apr 06 07:01:45 not that the freerunner needs the stylus or anything Apr 06 07:02:38 i'm making this baby big Apr 06 07:02:38 it does Apr 06 07:02:46 130x50x15mm Apr 06 07:02:48 it desparately does need the stylus Apr 06 07:02:56 * ndnihil has large hands Apr 06 07:03:05 thinner than your iphone Apr 06 07:03:08 but taller Apr 06 07:03:12 and a bit thicker Apr 06 07:03:15 interesting idea Apr 06 07:03:21 so its "really tall" Apr 06 07:03:30 there is room for a keypad at the bottom Apr 06 07:03:37 not too far off the FR Apr 06 07:03:53 but i'm not using it for anyting atm, Apr 06 07:03:58 goign to keep it black and shiny Apr 06 07:04:08 FR is ~120x60x15 Apr 06 07:04:14 yeah, but the nice thing about the iphone -- as opposed to the FR -- is the fact that the screen is the whole unit Apr 06 07:04:18 the front surface is rcurved over the top of the screen Apr 06 07:04:21 a subtle curve Apr 06 07:04:51 only making it this tall to allow for a modular internal Apr 06 07:06:39 raster: you dont sleep much Apr 06 07:06:44 :) Apr 06 07:07:18 i definitely sleep... 8hrs/day Apr 06 07:07:24 or i get uber-grumpy Apr 06 07:07:51 i need 10 Apr 06 07:08:05 but can go on less for a periode Apr 06 07:15:24 so, raster, how are we going to see your cool sketch? Apr 06 07:16:34 ummm.. when i'm done with it? Apr 06 07:17:03 Noo, we want to see it now, not in the future! *stomps with one foot, and clenched fists* ;) Apr 06 07:17:17 i'm in the middle of it in inkscape Apr 06 07:17:26 you cant see it unless u stare over my shoulder Apr 06 07:17:27 well, at least thats good Apr 06 07:17:33 *giggles* :) Apr 06 07:17:49 so, is there a way we can virutally stare over your shoulder? Apr 06 07:18:33 no Apr 06 07:18:53 MokoN00b: You know, there's an easy way to see it faster... Stop pestering him so he gets done faster ;) Apr 06 07:19:01 Radical concept, i know ;) Apr 06 07:19:13 i know Apr 06 07:19:27 but i like the idea of virtually looking over someones shoulder Apr 06 07:19:36 ustream :) Apr 06 07:19:42 screenshot Apr 06 07:19:59 MokoN00b: If you mean webcam, then I really don't want to see. Apr 06 07:20:25 no Apr 06 07:20:41 virtually seeing his applicate is all the virtual i want Apr 06 07:20:45 180° wrong direction Apr 06 07:20:48 application Apr 06 07:20:56 vnc guest? Apr 06 07:21:11 yeah, but he cant share that with the whole channel Apr 06 07:21:35 250 odd VNC clients would definitely crash his sytem Apr 06 07:21:46 no Apr 06 07:21:49 wouldnt crash Apr 06 07:21:55 u'd just be sharing my adsl outbound Apr 06 07:22:14 and u'd basically be waiting forever for the tiniest updates Apr 06 07:22:17 That's what ustream does :) Apr 06 07:24:20 as in, you send stuff to ustream, and then everybody else views the video on the website, so you use /their/ bandwidth in stead :) Apr 06 07:25:55 i'm not bothering.. as i'm busy drawing Apr 06 07:26:03 *nods* Good plan :) Apr 06 07:26:29 Just telling people that that's what you can do (where "you" is the common denominator, not specifically raster ;) ) Apr 06 07:38:15 * fredrin likes intone mp3 player Apr 06 07:38:40 got screenshots? :) Apr 06 07:42:43 http://folk.uio.no/fredrin/intone.png Apr 06 07:43:08 :) Apr 06 07:43:20 simple and nice Apr 06 07:43:44 true Apr 06 07:44:12 Not bad :) Apr 06 07:46:46 hmmm Apr 06 07:46:57 i think i should curve the sides too.. a bit Apr 06 07:47:51 methinks... yes Apr 06 08:02:24 raster what did you do Apr 06 08:02:27 "since rasters perception has Apr 06 08:02:28 a bit of color added to it." Apr 06 08:06:10 gta03 put on hold + let go 50% of your staff (which is pretty much all the linux/software staff) Apr 06 08:06:16 does not just mean a gelay in gta03 Apr 06 08:06:19 it means cancel Apr 06 08:06:22 wont be doing it Apr 06 08:06:39 you no longer have the staff to work on it on the software side Apr 06 08:06:42 not matter the spin? heh Apr 06 08:06:44 no* Apr 06 08:06:59 raster, So what do you think OM will do, after the mysterios "Project B"? Apr 06 08:07:04 you can dress it up in wording all you like that its "on hold" Apr 06 08:07:15 but to me thats just playing politic Apr 06 08:07:24 its effectively cancelled from om's point of view Apr 06 08:07:32 thats my take/color of it Apr 06 08:07:42 ie interpreting the facts in their context Apr 06 08:07:44 shame :| Apr 06 08:07:55 KenYoung: i know what it is. but i wont be telling you :) Apr 06 08:08:24 only been waiting a bit over two years for this device :( Apr 06 08:08:44 raster, I'm not asking what Project B is, I'm asking if you have an opinion on what OM will do after Project B. Apr 06 08:09:25 Project C?) Apr 06 08:09:32 Good one Apr 06 08:12:00 hehe well at least i'll always have my neo 1973 Apr 06 08:12:45 You've got 1/3000 of the entire world's supply! Apr 06 08:14:09 * xcasex huggles his raster mantoy Apr 06 08:14:30 you guys want to see something fucking horrifying? Apr 06 08:14:46 ndnihil, Of course. Apr 06 08:14:52 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=99a_1238990729 Apr 06 08:15:11 it gets better as it goes on Apr 06 08:15:20 like a friggen soft-serve machine Apr 06 08:15:45 KenYoung: i dont think i can comment on that as it means i will be saying too much of project-b Apr 06 08:15:46 :) Apr 06 08:15:51 ndnihil, Jeez - I thought you were going to point us to some uncommented code, of something. Apr 06 08:16:05 bah, that's lightweight stuff Apr 06 08:16:07 im going to have to continue this discussion later Apr 06 08:16:11 raster, OK Apr 06 08:16:17 freaks of nature is where it's at Apr 06 08:16:22 see you guys later Apr 06 08:16:58 I couldnt look away Apr 06 08:18:05 raster, In Sean's video, he actually holds up something that he claims is Project B. Twice. Apr 06 08:18:59 KenYoung: i know what it is, and its utterly uninteresting to me... or i bet 90% of people here Apr 06 08:19:02 If this were "24", I could "clean up the image" to read the labels on the device's components. Apr 06 08:19:03 is runs neither linux Apr 06 08:19:14 nor is it a phone of any sort shape size or demeanor Apr 06 08:19:40 It looks like a tasty square of Belgian chocolate. Apr 06 08:19:51 link to seans video? Apr 06 08:20:31 http://i.cmpnet.com/techonline/uth/pmiPhone_boardtopBIG.jpg Apr 06 08:20:36 http://i.cmpnet.com/techonline/uth/pmiPhone_boardbottomBIG.jpg Apr 06 08:20:41 interesting Apr 06 08:20:41 ndnihil, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFuwhPXYxxI&feature=PlayList&p=96FB31DA6E4012DA&index=1 Apr 06 08:20:46 haven't seen that before Apr 06 08:20:51 thanks Apr 06 08:24:35 raster - look at all that empty space - room for loads more features :) Apr 06 08:26:18 hmm Apr 06 08:26:18 ok Apr 06 08:26:20 54mm wide Apr 06 08:26:27 added 2mm to make it more rounded Apr 06 08:26:30 or subtley Apr 06 08:29:47 actually Apr 06 08:29:48 no Apr 06 08:29:57 it looks like a bloated carcas Apr 06 08:29:59 this is bad Apr 06 08:40:53 hrm, project b looks nothing like a phone Apr 06 08:41:07 looks more like a gps Apr 06 08:42:23 ndnihil, If so, it had better have some pretty amazing new feature, if it is to succeed in the mature, dying market of non-phone GPS units. Apr 06 08:42:34 yeah no doubt Apr 06 08:43:53 * ndnihil waits for the rasterola to come out Apr 06 08:44:44 The R1 ! Apr 06 08:45:46 both times he pulled it out of his pocket so far, it looks like a slimline version of the gf's tomtom Apr 06 08:47:35 project b? Apr 06 08:49:34 from how he's talking it sounds like they're going to continue development for the gta02 Apr 06 09:06:19 * hipitihop waves to the residents Apr 06 09:07:24 * raster wobbles back Apr 06 09:08:19 anyone here used qt-extended and android for a decent amount of time ? Apr 06 09:08:24 he raster Apr 06 09:09:10 Buy OpenSky for $20 and turn any SIP device into a Skype-compatible device to dial and receive Skype calls. LOL, "open"sky Apr 06 09:10:12 hipitihop: I've used qt extended for long periods of time, not andriod though. why do you ask? Apr 06 09:10:21 hi , any one here? Apr 06 09:10:33 no Apr 06 09:10:47 I read the news regarding closing down open moko , does this mean the concept proved wrong? Apr 06 09:10:58 will we never get to run a turly open cellular? Apr 06 09:11:10 or was it another issue? Apr 06 09:11:11 It's not closing down, gta02 is about as open as it's gonna get Apr 06 09:11:25 I am pretty happy with android, I can surf, check my email, receive and send sms and phonecalls without any problems. Kinda miss tangogps though. Apr 06 09:11:55 and tbh, the email application on android is pretty awesome, if you got gmail you be up in no time. Apr 06 09:11:58 I'd miss numpty physics more Apr 06 09:12:04 aah yeah Apr 06 09:12:08 are there any gps navigation apps for andriod? Apr 06 09:12:16 jonkristian: what gsm ril do you use? Apr 06 09:12:25 I'm up to the asteroid field level Apr 06 09:12:39 zeroedout: I (well my gf) has used extended almost exclusively as she needed something reliable... have not yet gone to -improved. Trying to see what I should put on next before she tosses it out the window Apr 06 09:12:49 well yes, but i haven't tested any of them much yet. Apr 06 09:13:00 PaulFertser: ril? Apr 06 09:13:12 jonkristian: oh however interface library is called. Apr 06 09:13:23 I really like hackable1, think om 2007.2 on debian Apr 06 09:13:27 but as far as I understood android is not that open? Apr 06 09:13:45 can you freely misrate software to it? Apr 06 09:14:10 zeroedout: but gsmd does not let you use gprs and send sms at the same time? Apr 06 09:14:16 zeroedout: do you think hackable is comparable to qt-extended ? - improved ? Apr 06 09:14:30 so does it mean no further development will be made by FIC for the phone? Apr 06 09:14:36 It's been many months since I've played with my FR, I might checkout SHR aswell. Apr 06 09:14:41 jonkristian: so, what gsm RIL do you use? Apr 06 09:14:53 jonkristian: the one panicking wrote or some other? Apr 06 09:15:26 yes, the one from panicking along with his v13 kernel. Apr 06 09:15:41 hipitihop: as long as I have a swap partition, it never freezes and no suspend issues. Some things are broken depending on the kernel you use so it might take some experimenting, but with all the debian apps avaliable I find it much better Apr 06 09:15:50 i think, if i recall correctly, also latest u-boot, Qi doesn't work. Apr 06 09:16:29 jonkristian: so you use android daily ? Apr 06 09:17:17 hipitihop: I have used it for a week. Apr 06 09:18:22 jonkristian: which build, and you say phone call/receive is fine and sms in/out is fine. suspend/resume and battery time ? Apr 06 09:18:25 PaulFertser: I am not sure what you mean with ril, I'm using Telenor GSM in Norway. Apr 06 09:19:02 hipitihop: batterytime is a bit poor by my opinion, suspend/resume works fine but something wlan fails to re-connect. Apr 06 09:19:10 zeroedout: same questions as for jonkristian Apr 06 09:19:23 jonkristian: i guess it's acronym for radio interface library. Some android-specific terminology. Basically, a layer that communicates with the hardware. Apr 06 09:19:51 jonkristian: resume from suspend on call and sms ? and how long does th ebattery last if in suspend ? Apr 06 09:21:30 if I was to flash android, afaik, I need to prep a uSD with fat + ext3 also. I assume if I don't like it, I can flash back ok ? or do I need Qi and then other issues Apr 06 09:21:58 hipitihop: I have no problem with that as far as I've tested it. Battery time in suspend, i haven't measured, but i think it's pretty well. Apr 06 09:22:47 hipitihop: do not use Qi, use the latest u-boot. You'd need to prep. SD though. Yes you can flash back to whatever you'd like to use:) Apr 06 09:23:26 so will the cost of the freerunner drop? Apr 06 09:23:37 it already has Apr 06 09:23:53 like 2 days after I ordered mine it went from $400 US to $300 US Apr 06 09:24:34 hipitihop: Use v13 and the non cupcake image, http://serdar-dere.net/panicking/ Apr 06 09:24:39 jonkristian: sorry for all the questions... what install instructions did you follow ? I assume just a kernel and image flash or do I need to build my own Apr 06 09:25:23 ndnihil: does it work ok now, or do you expirience issues which prevent you from using it? Apr 06 09:25:59 it has its quirks, but stick qt on it and it's a perfectly functional phone Apr 06 09:26:13 I'm using SHR-testing at the moment Apr 06 09:26:37 ndnihil: comparing it to android - is it worth 300$ today? Apr 06 09:26:48 can't say, I've not used android at all Apr 06 09:27:16 what are your expectations? Apr 06 09:27:38 gps, voip, cellular, pim, contacts Apr 06 09:28:07 gps - means road navagation Apr 06 09:28:24 so you want a device that works out of the box? Apr 06 09:28:30 no Apr 06 09:28:33 as of now, it seems more of a tinkerers platform Apr 06 09:28:55 jonkristian: do you also have a latest uboot link pls Apr 06 09:28:59 I haven't replaced either of my phones with it just yet Apr 06 09:29:06 but if fic is cutting its suppprt - how will fix open bugs and develop it? Apr 06 09:29:10 though I did swipe the SIM from the brokeberry Apr 06 09:29:45 according to the speech I just watched, OM is still going to develop for the gta02 Apr 06 09:29:53 they've just dropped the gta03 project Apr 06 09:29:57 hipitihop: just sent you what you'd need, also you might have to do this, setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} ${mtdparts}; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel; bootm 0x32000000 Apr 06 09:30:05 and are hoping a "plan b" will pull them out of the hole Apr 06 09:31:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFuwhPXYxxI&feature=PlayList&p=96FB31DA6E4012DA&index=1 Apr 06 09:31:22 ^watch that Apr 06 09:32:27 thanks mate Apr 06 09:32:32 np Apr 06 09:33:07 so the reason google sucseeded with android while open moko didnt was a hardware choise? Apr 06 09:33:14 choice Apr 06 09:33:28 not really, though the g1 is superior spec-wise Apr 06 09:33:46 they succeeded because they have a huge development team, and the $$ to pull it off Apr 06 09:34:06 jonkristian: sorry not with you, what do you mean "you just sent me" Apr 06 09:34:13 OM is a small company, and a good portion of the development seems to happen by way of non-OM resources Apr 06 09:34:21 [11:27] hipitihop: Use v13 and the non cupcake image, http://serdar-dere.net/panicking/​ Apr 06 09:34:28 k Apr 06 09:35:27 its like linux, not for the average consumer just yet, but great for tinkerers, and getting better(more "consumer ready") as time passes Apr 06 09:38:44 ndnihil: annoying not to see the entire screen in the vid. Apr 06 09:38:50 yeah it is Apr 06 09:39:12 not as annoying as angstroms package browser Apr 06 09:39:37 Hehe Apr 06 09:40:44 trying to find a simple email client Apr 06 09:41:05 claws needs much newer libs Apr 06 09:43:45 well, bye for now Apr 06 10:06:40 ndnihil: thanks for sharing, it was interesting. Apr 06 10:07:16 no problem, thank KenYoung, he dumped the link for me earlier Apr 06 10:07:21 ok Apr 06 10:07:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ Apr 06 10:17:38 the only video I should be thanked for was the 5 gallons of puss that came out of that cow Apr 06 10:17:49 literally, they filled a 5 gallon bucket Apr 06 10:18:44 uhm Apr 06 10:20:48 woot, got claws from OM unstable installed and appears to be working Apr 06 10:20:57 sending works, still waiting for inbox to load Apr 06 10:22:35 ndnihil: what are you running, SHR? Apr 06 10:22:41 yeah, shr testing Apr 06 10:23:25 how far has it come in useability these past 4 months? Apr 06 10:23:48 well, I've only had mine for maybe 1.5 weeks now Apr 06 10:24:01 ordered it a couple days before they dropped the price by $100 Apr 06 10:24:08 ouch Apr 06 10:24:10 fucking figures Apr 06 10:24:13 yeah Apr 06 10:24:15 that sucks Apr 06 10:24:53 on the first day I ran OM2007, OM2008, FDOM (horrid), qt, and SHR Apr 06 10:24:57 stuck with SHR Apr 06 10:25:14 after updating the GSM firmware, I haven't had too many problems Apr 06 10:28:29 oh, isn't that dangerous:D ? Apr 06 10:29:17 jonkristian: not a bit Apr 06 10:29:43 jonkristian: gsm modem is unbrickable, it has a ROM bootloader. Apr 06 10:29:59 I used the uSD card update image Apr 06 10:30:02 worked fine Apr 06 10:30:08 :) Apr 06 10:30:13 went from moko9 to moko11 Apr 06 10:30:22 okee Apr 06 10:30:49 Maybe I'll do that aswell as test shr, and on and on it goes, and never stops. Apr 06 10:35:31 i recommend the GSM firmware upgrade Apr 06 10:38:41 Everybody does :D Apr 06 10:40:44 [ ] asterisk_1.4.17-r1_armv4t.ipk 10-Feb-2009 01:04 2.0M Apr 06 10:40:48 seriously? Apr 06 10:41:01 do people -really- need a handheld pbx? Apr 06 10:41:19 why not? Apr 06 10:41:20 I do now :) Apr 06 10:41:46 that's just silly Apr 06 10:41:56 some people even use neo as samba AD server Apr 06 10:48:30 ndnihil: not necessarily... a pbx is good wherever you have an internet connection. you can be reached via a not-mobile phone number and perhaps even make calls without charge, depending on your provider. or it can make phone calls to another country a lot cheaper... Apr 06 10:48:56 eh, a lightweight voip client would suffice Apr 06 10:49:48 depends on what you want to do... Apr 06 10:50:22 well, if you've got a mobile phone, chances are you've got voicemail that comes with it Apr 06 10:50:39 ndnihil: isn't configurable Apr 06 10:50:48 ndnihil: true. but chances are that you have to pay a lot for a call from switzerland to germany e.g. Apr 06 10:51:06 every voicemail I've ever had was configurable to a point Apr 06 10:51:20 voicemailbox rather Apr 06 10:51:38 ndnihil: now if you have a sip number in germany and one in switzerland and your mobile may call swiss numbers without charge you can make that call a lot cheaper by routing it to germany yourself... Apr 06 10:51:39 and a voip client would work to call germany from switzerland Apr 06 10:51:40 ndnihil: to a point yes. You can't have custom greetings for different callers, have some ring through direct, ... Apr 06 10:52:55 hm, can't boot the sd Apr 06 10:53:21 jonkristian: are you trying from NOR and NAND uBoot? Apr 06 10:53:31 s/and/or/ Apr 06 10:53:35 tried both Apr 06 10:53:36 ndnihil: but that aside: the freerunner is not the only device running arm4... Apr 06 10:53:52 henk: true, but I'm looking at the OM repository at the moment :) Apr 06 10:54:30 http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/ Apr 06 10:54:49 picking through packages to install on SHR Apr 06 10:54:57 downloading firefox at the moment Apr 06 10:55:32 sad that my phone will be able to run a newer firefox than my workstation(debian sarge) and laptop(debian etch) Apr 06 10:55:37 ndnihil: he ok... otoh the openmoko is a really powersaving device (compared to a server) and powerful enough to run an asterisk for SOHO-needs. Apr 06 10:56:04 ndnihil: uhm... if you install debian sarge or etch on the phone, it won't. Apr 06 10:56:13 fifefox will probably need swap added Apr 06 10:56:30 been thinking about adding swap anyway Apr 06 10:57:08 ndnihil: and the sad thing about it is imho that you are still running sarge and etch ;) Apr 06 10:57:18 That said - I was for quite a while recently (~1 year) riunning FF on a PII/300 with 64M RAM - which is of the same order of magnitude of speed. Apr 06 10:57:19 etch isnt that old Apr 06 10:57:24 FF1.5 Apr 06 10:57:25 ndnihil: did you boot from nand? Apr 06 10:57:28 but yeah, I sorely need to update this workstation Apr 06 10:57:45 Worked well, even with ~10 tabs open Apr 06 10:57:49 jonkristian: I beleive I booted it from NOR Apr 06 10:57:56 ndnihil: it is for a laptop... most people run testing on their desktop/laptop machines and use stable only for servers... Apr 06 10:58:11 when I installed the laptop, etch was "new" Apr 06 10:58:17 hehe ok Apr 06 10:58:23 BTDT. Apr 06 10:58:25 same when I installed sarge on this thing Apr 06 10:58:59 back then, a dual 2.4GHz with 1G of RAM was hot shit Apr 06 10:59:14 This desktop is quite recent - instaled beginning 2008. Apr 06 11:00:48 been holding off on a clean install until I pick up another video card and a couple more monitors Apr 06 11:01:04 dual head at the moment, want to go 3-4 heads Apr 06 11:01:13 ndnihil: which uboot version did you use? Apr 06 11:01:16 * SpeedEvil realises ndnihil is a hydra. Apr 06 11:01:24 if I remember right, it was 1.3.2 Apr 06 11:01:30 a wha? Apr 06 11:01:51 oh Apr 06 11:01:52 doh Apr 06 11:02:30 ive got two mismatched monitors on here now, one badass 20.1" sony, and some LG widescreen, 19" I think Apr 06 11:03:01 sony was $1200 when I got it, and you can get them now for $400'ish Apr 06 11:03:13 * ndnihil shakes his head Apr 06 11:03:15 just get unable to read uimage error, wrong image format for bootm command Apr 06 11:03:29 jonkristian: did the image dd over correctly? Apr 06 11:03:59 I had no errors, i just did it a second time Apr 06 11:04:23 i chose Boot from microSD (FAT+ext2) Apr 06 11:04:59 jonkristian: and your 1. partition is fat? or ext? Apr 06 11:05:48 hm, i had two partitions, so i did a fdisk and removed all and created a new one, i didn't do mkfs though, just dd after that. Apr 06 11:05:55 anyone, I'm about to take up the freerunner again, and would like to know which distribution is preferred when it comes to standard phone functionality. I was considering trying out FDOM, but seems the latest release is nearly half a year old. (ftp://ftp.tuxbrain.com/openmoko/fdom/releases/) any suggestions? Apr 06 11:05:59 jonkristian: dd what? Apr 06 11:06:10 dont touch FDOM with a stick Apr 06 11:06:10 sudo dd if=flash-moko11-2.image of=/dev/mmcblk0p1 Apr 06 11:06:27 qt is the most user friendly it seems, with SHR being more for the tinkerer types Apr 06 11:06:31 poco, shr or qtextended Apr 06 11:07:02 jon: dd just the device, without partition label Apr 06 11:07:23 ah Apr 06 11:07:24 dd if=flash-moko11-2.image of=/dev/mmcblk0 Apr 06 11:07:47 max_posedon: never heard of poco. what's that? Apr 06 11:08:08 +1 for never heard of poco Apr 06 11:08:26 :-/ Apr 06 11:08:30 jonkristian: there is also a README... Apr 06 11:09:01 oh,... soorry Apr 06 11:09:16 pooze, I want say it to you Apr 06 11:09:28 and poc-o is another guy here) Apr 06 11:09:35 ah, ok.. :) Apr 06 11:09:43 parillo? Apr 06 11:09:46 henk: ofcourse i've read the README, i thought that #this is NO partition meant that people should fill in whatever was correct, not litterally. Apr 06 11:10:05 jonkristian: for a transcend microSD reader USB dongle this is /dev/sdb on my system Apr 06 11:10:19 pooze: I prefer Qt Extended community Apr 06 11:10:26 henk: it looks like he's doing it on the phone itself Apr 06 11:10:34 henk: yeah, i know where the device is;) Apr 06 11:10:52 some of my friends prefer andriod and another shr Apr 06 11:11:02 and fyp is also nice Apr 06 11:11:02 i just didn't get that i had to dd the device, not the specific partition. Apr 06 11:11:30 so I get SHR or QtExtended are the two to test out? 2008.x is out of the question? Apr 06 11:11:43 poco is the best distrib i guess Apr 06 11:11:52 hehe Apr 06 11:12:03 an i use shr Apr 06 11:12:25 however since last update i got the white screen again (the frozing one) Apr 06 11:13:17 I never had the white-screen issue before. did they ever find out what was causing it? is it hardware (revision) dependent? Apr 06 11:13:37 well i had it before, but not with shr Apr 06 11:19:13 ndnihil: it does. but that doesn't matter at all... Apr 06 11:19:38 jonkristian: you could have read the readme in the first place :-p Apr 06 11:22:29 henk: and what makes you think i didn't read it? Apr 06 11:23:25 I'm guessing it was the "you missed the dd to device and not partion" part ;) Apr 06 11:23:35 jonkristian: note the ':-p'. it was just a joke, i know you read it, but didn't understand it obviously... Apr 06 11:24:55 hehe, yeah i found it strange to not write it to the partition. Apr 06 11:25:06 either way, not a big deal, and you should be able to upgrade the GSM firmware now Apr 06 11:25:16 it's already done;) thanks Apr 06 11:25:21 woot, good deal Apr 06 11:25:26 :) Apr 06 11:25:35 you are using shr testing? Apr 06 11:25:39 yep Apr 06 11:26:49 nice, are you using Qi aswell? probably won't matter though. Apr 06 11:26:53 oh man, firefox is slowwwww Apr 06 11:26:57 on this phone Apr 06 11:26:58 lol Apr 06 11:27:04 nope, using uboot Apr 06 11:27:09 firefox on the phone, crap Apr 06 11:27:24 isn't there a midori or something more lightweight? Apr 06 11:28:00 it is Apr 06 11:28:14 but that "you're running this as root!" bar is annoying Apr 06 11:28:25 and I saw no option to turn it off Apr 06 11:28:55 Dillo is very fast and lightweight but has it's issues on some pages Apr 06 11:29:28 afaik some pages have issues. it's not dillo having the issues. Apr 06 11:29:29 at home I'm using opera, via ssh -X -Y Apr 06 11:29:58 and speaking about rendering to 480x640, it is the best Apr 06 11:30:07 no any horizontal scrolls Apr 06 11:30:20 maybe chromium will be available:) Apr 06 11:31:31 opkg remove firefox Apr 06 11:31:56 too much browser for a mere phone Apr 06 11:32:27 try ff1.5 Apr 06 11:32:29 if you can Apr 06 11:32:55 not seeing any packages for it Apr 06 11:33:07 just 3.0 Apr 06 11:33:13 ndnihil: I quite like the eWWW demo app at opkg.org for browsing Apr 06 11:33:20 3 is IMO too much. Apr 06 11:33:25 1.5 should run well. Apr 06 11:33:43 where can I find the serial number of my fr? Apr 06 11:33:52 I can't wait to see if wlan works now, only time i've gotte wlan to work is with that android from panicking. Apr 06 11:33:53 Sharwin_F: IIRC under the battery Apr 06 11:34:13 SpeedEvil, yeah, bu there are lots of strings there :P= Apr 06 11:34:29 IMEI? S/N? P/N? Apr 06 11:34:36 s/n Apr 06 11:34:43 may be a subtle hint Apr 06 11:34:46 ok thanks Apr 06 11:35:23 * SpeedEvil wonders how S/N is related to production line - if they are all in sequence. Apr 06 11:35:24 SpeedEvil: is 1.5 still maintained? Apr 06 11:35:48 My neo is s/n 8B7600121 Apr 06 11:36:02 kennyz: or even 2, which wasn't much if any slower IIRC Apr 06 11:38:03 henk: Apr 06 11:38:48 yes? Apr 06 11:42:45 oof, is there a way to make a subfolder for illume? Apr 06 11:43:04 Sharwin_F: datecode might be more interesting sometimes Apr 06 11:43:14 I just installed a puzzle game package, and it flooded the "desktop" with blank icons/text Apr 06 11:43:17 what's a 'subfolder'? Apr 06 11:43:23 * ndnihil stabs henk Apr 06 11:43:26 you know what I meant Apr 06 11:44:25 ndnihil: i'm not sure actually... but i guess you want some way to group the 'desktop' icons... Apr 06 11:44:33 yes Apr 06 11:44:44 DocScrutinizer, I've already sent the S/N to my provider, who's organising the fix it party on barcelona the 18th of April Apr 06 11:45:02 if he needs other info I suppouse we'll answer telling what he needs :P Apr 06 11:45:14 hmm, sounds like you'll get a buzzfree device eventually Apr 06 11:45:24 mkdir /usr/share/applications/Games Apr 06 11:45:26 isn't doing it Apr 06 11:46:38 Sharwin_F: your reseller doesn't need anything basically, but probably wants to know you bought the device from him. or Steve needs the s/n for business balance purposes Apr 06 11:47:35 Sharwin_F: so your reseller can tell to OM "well these are the S/N, so refund me for that please" Apr 06 11:48:10 DocScrutinizer, yes, I think so, he needs the serial number of each gadget to be repaired and the bill number if you bought from him Apr 06 11:48:28 yup that's the deal Apr 06 11:48:35 also to know in advanced how many gadgets are going to be repaired and the time needed for it Apr 06 11:48:47 exactly Apr 06 11:49:17 k, cya. have to run now, meet rwhitby Apr 06 11:49:29 :) Apr 06 11:52:40 hello guys Apr 06 11:53:08 hi gramps Apr 06 11:53:10 rtl still not supported in enlightment ? Apr 06 11:57:36 ndnihil: still around? Apr 06 11:58:02 hai Apr 06 11:58:05 i get a can't connect to dbus in shr, i've tried restarting the dbus daemon, still. any ideas? Apr 06 11:58:16 when doing what? Apr 06 11:58:27 Settings->Internet Apr 06 11:58:42 oh, I haven't gotten wifi to work yet Apr 06 11:58:48 I dont get that error Apr 06 11:58:51 and I get the device Apr 06 11:58:54 and it will scan Apr 06 11:58:59 but no love when connecting Apr 06 11:59:42 uhm Apr 06 12:00:14 when you turn the wifi device on, do you get an eth0? Apr 06 12:00:37 hrm Apr 06 12:00:47 * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for dillo-ssl: Apr 06 12:00:47 * libcrypto0.9.7 (>= 0.9.7g) * libssl0.9.7 (>= 0.9.7g) * Apr 06 12:00:47 root@phone /usr/share/applications $ opkg list_installed |grep -i libssl Apr 06 12:00:47 libssl0.9.8 - 0.9.8j-r1 - Apr 06 12:00:59 * ndnihil stabs dillo Apr 06 12:01:34 guess I'll be going back to android pretty soon Apr 06 12:01:46 or maybe something else exotic Apr 06 12:01:58 you give up too easily Apr 06 12:03:07 ndnihil: Hehe Apr 06 12:03:45 * ndnihil is trying to figure out why task-shr-gtk depends on vagalume Apr 06 12:03:48 I see there are two images for SHR, shr-lite-image-om-gta02.jffs2 and shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2. Anybody knows what the difference is? the non-lite version adds some 20 megs. Apr 06 12:04:00 i used the light one Apr 06 12:04:07 I used full Apr 06 12:04:11 hm, this is interesting Apr 06 12:04:12 non-light have addition apps included Apr 06 12:04:34 settings have a new menu for me after opkg update/upgrade Apr 06 12:04:55 ok, dbus error is gone aswell:) Apr 06 12:05:04 max_posedon: do you know which applications, or some webpage where I can see the differences? Apr 06 12:05:27 I don Apr 06 12:05:47 I don't remember, but suggest non-light, if 20mb isn't a problem for you Apr 06 12:06:06 it's not, so I'll go for that one then. thanks. :) Apr 06 12:07:49 ndnihil: are you using some sort of wlan gui? Apr 06 12:07:56 I tried mofi Apr 06 12:08:02 but for testing I use cli Apr 06 12:08:15 pooze: either go for full, or take lite and install what you need. Apr 06 12:08:34 ndnihil: ok, ill run some tests now, see if i can get a connection. Apr 06 12:09:02 jonkristian: I'll go for the full then to see what's there. I guess it's pretty easy to uninstall programs I don't like/need. Apr 06 12:09:25 pooze: yeah, i like to do it the other way around, but that's me;) Apr 06 12:09:30 :) Apr 06 12:09:57 be a man, 20M isn't shit these days :) Apr 06 12:10:40 ndnihil, using gprs from my provider 20M can be 5$) Apr 06 12:11:02 eh, $5 isn't shit these days either Apr 06 12:12:52 I got wifi Apr 06 12:14:29 ndnihil: what about minimo or dillo, tried either? Apr 06 12:15:12 tried to install dillo, but it complained about libcrypto0.9.7 (>= 0.9.7g) Apr 06 12:15:19 then I have 0.9.8 installed... Apr 06 12:15:22 s/then/when/ Apr 06 12:16:18 i'm curious for fennec... Apr 06 12:16:41 ah Apr 06 12:19:58 strange, on second connect, the AP that was previously connected to is gone in the list. Apr 06 12:35:18 jonkristian: the reception on the wifi antenna is not what one could call long range Apr 06 12:36:15 density of granite Apr 06 12:36:16 meh Apr 06 12:36:17 sitting here in the same spot, I get ~6 or so with the laptops built in antenna, 8 or more with the pcmcia card, and just one with the FR (the one that is running in the same room) Apr 06 12:36:39 jonkristian :D Apr 06 12:37:15 Hello Dave Apr 06 12:39:05 :) Apr 06 12:46:59 * jonkristian jumps back to android:D Apr 06 12:47:16 is android nice? Apr 06 12:47:19 stable? Apr 06 12:47:41 it's nice and stable as far as i've tested. Apr 06 12:48:23 with panicking non cupcake image and v13 kernel. Im testing the koolu release, beta3 Apr 06 12:48:27 do you have a terminal? Apr 06 12:48:30 1. release-beta3 can't load contacts from my sim 2. problems with many input areas 3. no go from dev point of view Apr 06 12:48:45 max_posedon: good to know Apr 06 12:49:00 max_posedon: have you tried panicking image? Apr 06 12:49:43 no, only koolu's Apr 06 12:50:37 the one i mentioned above seems to work fairly well for me, i had no issues in the short time i tried it. Apr 06 12:51:12 you even can input wifi wep keys? or essid in wifi settings? Apr 06 12:51:25 yes Apr 06 12:51:50 wifi worked very well on several networks, but not my home network. I've tested with wep too Apr 06 12:52:11 fine, I'll test it someday, just for experiments. Apr 06 12:52:26 but I dislike android anyway Apr 06 12:56:17 can someone please link me to the latest uboot version for download, wiki here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader doesn't appear to have a link Apr 06 12:56:47 hipitihop: you shouldn't run uboot unless you have a very good reason not to use qi. Apr 06 12:57:41 * max_posedon don't see any reason to use qi Apr 06 12:57:58 henk: I'm currently running qt-extended and contempating trying android...someone else here said use latest uboot Apr 06 12:58:10 yes, that's true Apr 06 12:58:23 hipitihop: afaik qi can boot android as well. Apr 06 12:58:29 Don't use Qi with android Apr 06 12:58:42 indeed it was ^^^ that said that :-) Apr 06 12:58:53 henk: depends on which image you are using i think, but with panicking, Qi doesn't work. Apr 06 12:59:32 max_posedon: it's actively developed, uboot isn't. it's very easy to use, can do about the same stuff as uboot, ... enough? Apr 06 12:59:55 jonkristian: sorry, only just got back to trying.. still trying to find latest uboot, mine is "Neo1973 Bootloader U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12" Apr 06 13:00:07 jonkristian: then i guess he should repair his image. Apr 06 13:00:17 henk, enough, but I don't know any feature except "fast-boot" Apr 06 13:00:26 hipitihop: leave it be Apr 06 13:00:41 henk: maybe you should repair it for him;) Apr 06 13:01:03 max_posedon: it's 'the better software'[tm]. that's reason enough to use it. uboot isn't developed anymore. that's reason enough not to use it. Apr 06 13:01:21 jonkristian: i would try, if i cared about android Apr 06 13:01:22 bah Apr 06 13:01:33 they dont make the B6 platform A4 anymore, but I still drive mine Apr 06 13:02:08 this is a stupid discussion, if you want something that works, use software that works together, doesn't have anything to do if it's actively developed or not. Apr 06 13:02:33 jonkristian: sorry to be a pain, but you also mentione I may need "setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} ${mtdparts}; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel; bootm 0x32000000" how do I know, and when Apr 06 13:03:30 jonkristian: not true. uboot is broken. so if everybody keeps working with uboot it can never be replaced by proper, not-broken software like qi. and many errors in android which are compensated by uboot being broken will never be discovered or even get 'improved' (but actually become more broken)... Apr 06 13:04:10 what could be the problem when I'm not able to ping websites or even IPs in the same local network but are connected to my home wifi network. My Routers IP is in the resolv.conf and iwconfig looks fine, too. :( Apr 06 13:04:15 henk: I am talking about end users, not developers. Apr 06 13:04:38 can you ping your wifi router? Apr 06 13:04:40 muxe Apr 06 13:04:45 no Apr 06 13:04:46 jonkristian: did you forget in which channel we are? Apr 06 13:04:58 jonkristian: there are no end-users here! Apr 06 13:05:03 muxe: bad password, encryption, or it just doesn't like you. Apr 06 13:05:41 I thought about the encryption thing too so I tried without any encryption, but that didn't help Apr 06 13:05:48 :/ Apr 06 13:07:34 hipitihop: yes, you need to modify uboot Apr 06 13:07:53 ah ok! I had to do a "ifconfig usb0 down" first Apr 06 13:26:26 muxe: taking care about your default routes would have been enough. Apr 06 13:27:49 anyone know if FSO milestone 5.5 is still being worked on? Apr 06 13:28:30 badcloud: yep, see mickey's post on planet.openmoko Apr 06 13:28:36 anyone know if there is an easy way to export qt-exteneded contacts, even if only to txt. I want to flash android and lose them Apr 06 13:30:17 thanks, toggles_w Apr 06 13:31:19 hipitihop: you can do a sendj-all operation from the contacts manager via sms and back them up to another phone Apr 06 13:31:32 or a computer, if you have emails working Apr 06 13:32:00 and even windows mobile can read vcard format Apr 06 13:33:58 rooly: no do not have emails working... can I create a vcard for each contact automatically or do I have to do one by one ? Apr 06 13:34:42 go into contacts and hit options and then 'send' Apr 06 13:35:04 and select either bluetooth or sms Apr 06 13:35:37 yo rooly :) Apr 06 13:36:29 yo dave Apr 06 13:36:48 rooly: if I choose sms, won't that send one sms per contact ? Apr 06 13:37:12 iunno, never had to do it Apr 06 13:39:29 henk : I'm not that advanced. Where do I configure the "default routes"? Apr 06 13:40:32 dave Apr 06 13:41:20 muxe: with 'route add default gw ...' and 'route del default gw ...' Apr 06 13:41:37 muxe: there should be only one default route. Apr 06 13:41:38 hei badcloud :] Apr 06 13:41:54 how's your FR juggling coming along? Apr 06 13:42:07 I'll let you know later, gotta go now :] Apr 06 13:42:09 snakkes Apr 06 13:42:18 det skal vi Apr 06 13:42:21 :) Apr 06 13:42:27 has anyone tried android on their FR? Apr 06 13:42:39 i did Apr 06 13:42:42 the first release Apr 06 13:42:55 how did it run? Apr 06 13:43:00 like shit Apr 06 13:43:06 but that was months ago Apr 06 13:43:10 hmmm Apr 06 13:43:14 uSD or flash? Apr 06 13:43:21 i havent, but one of my mates has the freerunner to help hacking Apr 06 13:43:22 android takes both Apr 06 13:43:37 ah, right Apr 06 13:43:39 forgot Apr 06 13:43:47 didn't even cut it as a phone? Apr 06 13:43:55 back when i tried? Apr 06 13:43:59 no Apr 06 13:44:03 that was months ago tho Apr 06 13:44:11 i mean literally right when the source came out Apr 06 13:44:18 it works now Apr 06 13:44:21 supposedly Apr 06 13:44:27 a few weeks ago it still wasnt working reliably Apr 06 13:44:50 really? Apr 06 13:44:54 that settles it for me Apr 06 13:45:13 god, what an utterly useless device for an end user... Apr 06 13:45:37 its not FOR an end user Apr 06 13:45:48 it was advertised as such Apr 06 13:45:59 in addition to being for devs Apr 06 13:46:18 it was advertised as being for devs and advanced users Apr 06 13:46:33 I'm an advanced user Apr 06 13:46:37 then use it Apr 06 13:46:38 still doesn't cut it Apr 06 13:46:53 i'm an advanced user and it performs exactly as i expect Apr 06 13:46:53 for what? having rootfs flashing contests? Apr 06 13:47:04 *cough*troll Apr 06 13:47:37 what does that mean, Kamping? Apr 06 13:48:01 and rooly, what do you use it for that it so wonderfully lives up to your expectations Apr 06 13:48:02 ? Apr 06 13:48:03 badcloud, if it doesnt work for you, sigh, and leave. dont try and start flamewars and troll Apr 06 13:48:22 I'm not trying to flame or troll, only discuss Apr 06 13:48:28 who said anything about wonderfully living up to them Apr 06 13:48:37 i said it works exactly as i expect Apr 06 13:48:45 opposing opinions should not always be interpreted as a threat Apr 06 13:48:51 what i expect is buggy software and an imperfect device Apr 06 13:48:52 your tone does not indicate 'only discuss'ion Apr 06 13:49:13 words are never without emotions Apr 06 13:49:24 and it works exactly as such Apr 06 13:49:30 its not intended for end users Apr 06 13:49:39 only people willing to fight with it Apr 06 13:49:44 people expecting a hassle[ Apr 06 13:49:52 I see Apr 06 13:49:55 words without emotion are reasoned Apr 06 13:50:15 *that's* what they should have put on the .com page Apr 06 13:50:23 no Apr 06 13:50:24 "for users who expect a hassel" Apr 06 13:50:26 advanced user Apr 06 13:50:34 * Kamping_Kaiser wanders off Apr 06 13:50:34 words without emotion are sterile Apr 06 13:50:36 because an advanced user can deal with the device Apr 06 13:50:37 said my bit Apr 06 13:50:56 *that's* what advance user means?? Apr 06 13:51:05 it sure does Apr 06 13:51:15 news to me Apr 06 13:51:40 300 dollars and this to teach me not to buy "advanced user" equipment Apr 06 13:52:15 are you keen on going inside of your system and mucking around with things to try and get, say a font, displaying correctly? Apr 06 13:52:20 rooly: an advanced user is still a user... and close to nothing works (worked) telephone-wise half a year ago. however advanced a user maybe: it wasn't "usable" Apr 06 13:52:30 rooly, no Apr 06 13:52:49 rooly, (i'd suggest leaving it alone, dont think it'll go anyware) Apr 06 13:53:05 kamping's right Apr 06 13:53:11 but the bitterness lingers Apr 06 13:53:15 oh of course Apr 06 13:53:59 and henk's proof to the fact that I'm not a lone wolf on the subject Apr 06 13:55:56 funny that people say that Freerunner is not usable. I have been using that device as a phone nearly since it wa released (2 months after to exact) Apr 06 13:56:18 Not funny at all. Apr 06 13:56:19 i myself used it as my sole phone Apr 06 13:56:24 "usable" is a subjective term. Apr 06 13:56:37 and I am not even advance user, just a normal user that want to play with different phone os Apr 06 13:56:51 i only recently stopped because i wanted to experiment Apr 06 13:57:29 and I know other people who has used it for a nice GPS device Apr 06 13:57:51 If one expects the phone to ring each time it is called, and one expects to be able to answer the phone each time it rings, and one expects the other party to hear you each time you answer, etc, etc, -- one gets a string of expectations that are not very reliable for the FR. That's all. Apr 06 13:57:57 so the people that say it cannot be used should try to use it Apr 06 13:57:59 i use it as a gps/media player/map Apr 06 13:58:29 beer_: I think the ones who say it cannot be used HAVE tried it, and have found it does not meet their expectations. Apr 06 13:58:43 mwester: s/time you answer/time you answer without a buzz/ Apr 06 13:58:57 The problem here is that there are some on this channel who push THEIR expectations for the device upon everyone else. Apr 06 13:59:24 And some who say it cannot be used haven't happened to hit on a stable image Apr 06 13:59:33 THe FR is a very fine device for certain people, and a terrible mistake for others. That's the long and the short of it. Apr 06 13:59:57 mwester: if they have problem with the hardware I can understand the problem, but if it was with the software they should help with improve the software where it lacs Apr 06 14:00:18 * hipitihop managed to grab the qt database file, now has all contacts etc backed up Apr 06 14:00:27 * raster shakes his fist @ glamo Apr 06 14:01:00 beer_: I have both problems with hardware and software, and have invested two years trying to fix it. Please don't insult people with your assumptions. Apr 06 14:01:08 at this moment there is not other phone on the market I know of that fits my need as good as a freerunner Apr 06 14:01:37 mwester: what software problem do you have? Apr 06 14:01:46 beer_: that's what i meant about 'advanced users'. i am (in my eyes) an advanced user. i USE stuff. and i was prepared that the freerunners hardware and software are not PERFECT (like a commercial phone). but i was expecting a bit^Wgigabit more Apr 06 14:01:55 beer_: very good for you. But again, YOUR personal expectations are not MINE, nor others on this channel. I'm glad it works for you, but the device utterly fails for others' needs. Apr 06 14:01:56 i still carry my Siemens S65 because that one doesn't just lock up randomly... Apr 06 14:01:57 * hipitihop is now hoping someone will point to him basic howto to set uboot environment Apr 06 14:02:27 beer_: I'm not about to go into a pissing match with you about the problems -- read the wiki; the issues are documented and well known! Apr 06 14:02:43 Wonka: it has been a long time since I have experince that my freerunner lock up Apr 06 14:03:06 sometimes, my FR was completely locked up after three days of just lying around, hanging on the charger, since booting Apr 06 14:03:49 mwester: the only problem I have seen at the wiki is only hardware problems Apr 06 14:03:57 rofl Apr 06 14:04:07 as in: 1. plug charger int powered-off FR, 2. watch it boot, 3. let lie for 3 days, 4. experience no reaction to anything short of removing battery Apr 06 14:04:49 * mwester wonders if beer_ knows of the existence of the bug tracking database Apr 06 14:05:27 Wonka: I have never let it lied around for 3 days. Normal I turn it off before I go to sleep and start/boot it in the morning Apr 06 14:05:54 beer_: :-O Apr 06 14:06:02 beer_: i never do that with any "normal" phone Apr 06 14:06:04 Now that's a perfect example, isnt' it!? Apr 06 14:06:06 can someone please tell this noob how to set uboot env variables Apr 06 14:06:25 beer_: my S65 is my alarm clock... Apr 06 14:06:43 Wonka: I would since I dont want people to call me when I am asleep Apr 06 14:06:45 .oO( ok, it would still ring even if "powered off"... but I still don't ) Apr 06 14:06:49 be which distribution ar eyou using? Apr 06 14:06:50 11~. Apr 06 14:06:53 I expect a phone to be on over night, so that it will wake me when I set my alarm, and so that I can get a phone call should someone in my family need to call me for some emergency or other important reason. Apr 06 14:07:04 beer_: _if_ i dont want that, i'd just switch it to silent mode Apr 06 14:07:34 * nio__ agrees with mwester Apr 06 14:07:34 hipitihop: uboot is not worse worrying about it. try qi. Apr 06 14:07:41 a phone that cannot cope with being always-on is worthless Apr 06 14:07:54 beer_: which distribution are you running? Apr 06 14:08:45 Qt Extended Improved Apr 06 14:09:02 that explains a lot... Apr 06 14:09:06 why? Apr 06 14:09:09 henk: but jonkristian clearly said the android image I intend to try will not work qith qi Apr 06 14:09:28 hipitihop: and who is jonkristian? Apr 06 14:10:12 I have tried many other distros like android, shr, fyp etc but Qt_Extended_Improved seemd to be the best at this moment Apr 06 14:10:39 but I still try others from time to time, just to see how they improve Apr 06 14:11:03 beer_: because that is probably the most stable and working software you can find for the freerunner. so no wonder you don't know about software problems. Apr 06 14:11:12 henk: no idea, he jumped in earlier, no offence but I now neither he or you :-) Apr 06 14:11:29 beer_: otoh it's probably the least compatible one as they don't use X11 (if i got that right) Apr 06 14:12:19 hipitihop: i'd just try with qi and if it doesn't work you can still go back to uboot... Apr 06 14:12:52 henk: happy if it is easy. so is there simple link and steps to install ? Apr 06 14:13:05 hipitihop: the qi page in the wiki? Apr 06 14:13:13 I need some automated phone number that I can call and tells me how much buzz/echo is on the line so I don't have to call other people all the time..) Apr 06 14:14:35 My mother apparently isn't trust worthy on that. She said there was no echo while there was.. :) Apr 06 14:16:48 henk: can I use neotool to install ? Apr 06 14:17:12 hipitihop: i have no idea. i don't know neotool, i'm not interested in android. Apr 06 14:18:15 henk: fyi, neotool is not related to android afaik, simply allows flashing uboot, images, kernel etc via dfutil Apr 06 14:19:07 i knew it was a frontend. and i don't like frontends since cdrecord... Apr 06 14:20:19 hipitihop: looks like you get your chance to ask ;) Apr 06 14:21:26 Soo, Project B huh? :) Apr 06 14:21:42 henk: :-) Apr 06 14:22:24 panicking: someone suggested to try the non cupcake image here http://serdar-dere.net/panicking/ can I use Qi with that ? Apr 06 14:23:31 hipitihop: if everything working ok with using plain dfu-util, AND you have installed the adiitionally needed libs/tools: yes then you may use neotool for convenience ;-) Apr 06 14:24:24 does enyone know what plan B is? Apr 06 14:24:37 hipitihop: anyway notice neotool is a mere convenience wrapper Apr 06 14:25:10 beer_: nothing we need to discuss here in this channel. no phone anyway Apr 06 14:25:42 DocScrutinizer: indeed, everything that helps this linux noob that knows enough to be dangerous but gettting more and more comfortable in the cli :-) Apr 06 14:26:40 hipitihop: :) Apr 06 14:27:31 hipitihop: actually installing neotool might be more demanding then using plain vanila cmds like dfu-utiil Apr 06 14:33:13 DocScrutinizer: , henk, seems like qi flashed worked fine, booting qt-extended again now Apr 06 14:43:33 * hipitihop bids thanks and goodnight to all. Will resume flashing more stuff tomorrow Apr 06 14:43:50 hmm, you might find qi doesn't play nice with qt wrt to gsm-tty Apr 06 15:01:55 wow Apr 06 15:01:59 that was amazingly simple to setup Apr 06 15:02:05 how in god's name could someone be confused by that Apr 06 15:06:03 rooly: what are you talking about? Apr 06 15:06:43 configuring netbeanss for mingw Apr 06 15:06:56 some people i know are having a helluva time getting it working Apr 06 16:05:29 muhahhahaha Apr 06 16:05:33 it lives Apr 06 16:12:14 raster: it is a beauty :) Apr 06 16:13:11 :) Apr 06 16:13:21 my work for the day is done Apr 06 16:13:59 raster, looks good :) Apr 06 16:14:13 http://www.rasterman.com/files/openphone-mk2.png Apr 06 16:16:36 what it is?) Apr 06 16:16:51 It's porn. Apr 06 16:16:54 Phone porn. Apr 06 16:17:52 raster: can i preorder? Apr 06 16:18:17 The chromed rim round the side - that is a locator for the dock? Apr 06 16:18:24 toggles_w: as long as you are happy with a 100 years delivery time :) Apr 06 16:18:30 raster: with a matching slot in the dock? Apr 06 16:18:44 SpeedEvil: 1. just looks nice. Apr 06 16:18:58 raster: sure, i'll will it to someone ;-) Apr 06 16:19:00 raster: Is the lcd screen supposed to be curved on the picture? Apr 06 16:19:02 2. is part of an actual metal frame on the inside to provide a rigid solid frame Apr 06 16:19:29 3. also a ridge to guide into the dock - yes.. the dock slide area will have a ridge for that to make sure ti slides in straight every time Apr 06 16:19:42 nielsle: yes. Apr 06 16:19:46 intended Apr 06 16:19:56 makes it w bit more "organic" Apr 06 16:19:59 raster: if you make it a bit larger on the top, it could be used to open bottles. Apr 06 16:20:04 :) Apr 06 16:20:09 Cool. Apr 06 16:20:21 more natural as fingers always prescribe curved paths when slid/dragged around Apr 06 16:20:31 SpeedEvil: ahhahahahah Apr 06 16:20:37 raster: good luck sourcing curved LCDs. :) Apr 06 16:20:51 SpeedEvil: but i noted the "frangile plugs for cradles" thing and used the ridge for that Apr 06 16:20:56 SpeedEvil: ooh not Apr 06 16:21:00 the lcd is under the case Apr 06 16:21:10 the curvew is a dark tinted shiny plastic case Apr 06 16:21:14 http://www.atwoodknives.com/home/spindex.php - inspiration Apr 06 16:21:22 lcd is 1mm under the casing Apr 06 16:21:29 the lcd is flat Apr 06 16:21:45 it's a flip? Apr 06 16:21:52 (just like iphone has the lcd under the glass ts cover) Apr 06 16:21:55 no Apr 06 16:22:00 justa blob Apr 06 16:22:07 ah Apr 06 16:22:41 I'm really unsure as to how that'll work optically Apr 06 16:23:03 the touchscreen is somehow on the top of this? Apr 06 16:23:06 Capacitive? Apr 06 16:23:21 yes Apr 06 16:23:23 And you've made screen protectors impossible. Apr 06 16:23:36 as i understand it a capactive ts can be applied to any surface Apr 06 16:23:39 flat or curved Apr 06 16:23:45 if you just have the right materials Apr 06 16:23:50 bah Apr 06 16:23:53 scrrew protectors Apr 06 16:23:58 thats what you buy a new one for! Apr 06 16:23:58 :) Apr 06 16:24:42 This means - as I understand current tech - you'll have to have an outer plastic layer - with the capacitive screen on the inside - with the blob inside that. Probably optically siliconed to the LCD. Apr 06 16:25:18 or maybe I'm wrong, and it'll work adequately at 5mm distance Apr 06 16:26:34 Also - it might be worth going with an approximately size-matched robust, easy-to-dock connector on the bottom. Have you considered DB-25? Apr 06 16:28:46 HAHHAHAHHAHA Apr 06 16:28:48 db25 Apr 06 16:28:48 :) Apr 06 16:29:13 well i was tyring to keep the on-phone connectors standa-lone "useful" Apr 06 16:29:22 and just re-use them on the dock simply Apr 06 16:29:25 Yeah - I see where you're going. Apr 06 16:29:33 the only bizarre connector is the thing next to the microsd slot Apr 06 16:29:57 that is basically the wires of an hdmi connector crammed into something about the size od a microsd slot Apr 06 16:30:01 so a custom connector Apr 06 16:30:10 the cradle breaks that out to a full hdmi plug Apr 06 16:30:16 (but that uses dvi signalling) Apr 06 16:30:26 so a hdmi->dvi cable just plugs into your monitor Apr 06 16:30:32 those are readily available Apr 06 16:30:39 but yeah Apr 06 16:30:48 a 100% custom connector for it all would make sense Apr 06 16:30:57 except then when not at the cradle u need adaptors for everything Apr 06 16:31:04 Good day, Raster :) Apr 06 16:31:04 ot need to break out headphone etc. in addition Apr 06 16:31:08 was avoidng that Apr 06 16:31:48 Or give it up and say 'a2dp' Apr 06 16:32:35 I see you've been busy :) Apr 06 16:32:49 Also. Apr 06 16:33:08 From a purely practical point of view, in some ways that 8mm or so bulge is 'wasted' space Apr 06 16:33:24 Though I do agree it's a great structural asset. Apr 06 16:35:23 what is the name of program which shr provides for creating screenshots? Apr 06 16:35:56 SpeedEvil: well actually the bulg is only 2mm above the lcd at its highest point Apr 06 16:36:03 it is below the lcd at the top and bottom Apr 06 16:36:32 Dave: yes. been busy :) Apr 06 16:41:02 raster: ah Apr 06 16:41:24 i had a detailed internal structure drawing :) Apr 06 16:41:27 well not 1005देतािलेद Apr 06 16:41:42 ेरर नोत १००ञ देतािलेद Apr 06 16:41:50 बुत ि लािद ोुत ा पचद टितह रोोम ्ोर सुर्ाचे चोमपोनेनतस Apr 06 16:41:54 ooh poo Apr 06 16:42:02 not 100% detailed Apr 06 16:42:12 but enough to have a pcb with room fro surface components Apr 06 16:42:14 lcd mounted Apr 06 16:42:18 battery etc. etc. Apr 06 16:42:28 so i made sure it all fit with room to spare Apr 06 16:42:41 and the pcd was very much near the front Apr 06 16:42:50 with lcd surface mounted on it pretty much Apr 06 16:42:57 anyway Apr 06 16:43:00 time to run! Apr 06 16:43:02 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Apr 06 17:00:15 need some people working for some mfg's to cause the process to be geared closer to linux specs u need that way maybe just putting your os on it will open up the eyes that need to see Apr 06 17:01:00 which hardware were u just talking about? Apr 06 17:02:16 http://www.rasterman.com/files/openphone-mk2.png ? Apr 06 17:03:22 slaxxin: that's rasters pipe dre^h^h^h^h^h^h^hnew project Apr 06 17:03:38 :D Apr 06 17:03:39 ??? Apr 06 17:03:40 wtf Apr 06 17:03:46 SpeedEvil: what did you just say Apr 06 17:04:07 i got "slaxxin: that's rasters pipe dre^h^h^h^h^h^h^hnew project Apr 06 17:04:20 * SpeedEvil sighs at the newbs. Apr 06 17:06:04 well Apr 06 17:06:15 any pcb for it? Apr 06 17:06:32 or is it just another case? Apr 06 17:06:53 DREAM Apr 06 17:07:01 He's currently trying to design it Apr 06 17:07:10 it's not anywhere close to reality. Apr 06 17:07:11 intresting dock Apr 06 17:07:32 Rock 'N Dock! Apr 06 17:07:34 looks fradgile Apr 06 17:07:40 -d Apr 06 17:08:34 well i think the gta03 project is the most viable plan Apr 06 17:08:59 since the case is already designed Apr 06 17:09:01 ... Apr 06 17:09:03 *cough* ? Apr 06 17:09:11 being what it may be Apr 06 17:09:59 just need better pcb from what im hearing from all u guys iss correct Apr 06 17:10:09 hahaha Apr 06 17:10:28 i like the case we have there was a lot of thought went into it Apr 06 17:11:08 except the mic being between the speakers syndrome Apr 06 17:11:52 dave did u try closed cell foam strips between the speakers? Apr 06 17:12:14 which speakers? Apr 06 17:12:21 om freerunner Apr 06 17:12:29 nope I didn't Apr 06 17:12:36 as a buzz solution? Apr 06 17:12:36 has anybody? Apr 06 17:12:51 echo on speaker phone Apr 06 17:14:25 as far as the bezel is concerned its not a show stopper like the inability to use speaker phone Apr 06 17:15:51 with no money its going to be very hard to make anything "else" happen Apr 06 17:16:08 OM is dead. Apr 06 17:16:20 if u borrow money well that just drives up the price Apr 06 17:16:21 s/is dead/has failed/ Apr 06 17:16:36 Dave == nietzsche Apr 06 17:16:39 :P Apr 06 17:16:42 Yes :] Apr 06 17:16:45 what failed the case or the pcb Apr 06 17:17:02 existentialmoko? Apr 06 17:17:18 ahhh so what Apr 06 17:17:23 neolism Apr 06 17:17:48 ;o Apr 06 17:18:17 i have a sticker that will cover up open moko Apr 06 17:18:44 :O Apr 06 17:18:50 sure a new case design will be better Apr 06 17:18:51 THAT'S WHAT THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW! Apr 06 17:19:29 but what it really comes down to is the choice in hardware Apr 06 17:20:26 since the case r&d is well on its way, why not go with it Apr 06 17:21:21 What it really comes down to is, will raster, joerg, and I change the world? Apr 06 17:21:27 :D Apr 06 17:21:34 u have already Apr 06 17:21:50 an will much more im sure Apr 06 17:21:56 :) Apr 06 17:22:21 i guess if u have the money to do it thats even better Apr 06 17:22:46 i guess im just not om bias Apr 06 17:23:35 the problem i see is that borrowing money is backing up Apr 06 17:23:52 i step forward a 3 back Apr 06 17:25:15 Right Apr 06 17:27:53 if u get past that then everybody wants to use the thing to make money an thats the next problem Apr 06 17:29:06 subsidies somehow tackle this problem9 but i dont know exactly how Apr 06 17:29:28 this is how the deficet goes up i think Apr 06 17:30:51 att writes down a figure on paper an thats what it is just a figure Apr 06 17:31:13 but to anybody else its cash Apr 06 17:31:46 our cash Apr 06 17:32:29 im so poor that this recession is a relief Apr 06 17:34:03 ahoi Apr 06 18:35:47 good morning vietnam Apr 06 18:36:38 :D Apr 06 18:36:44 skjera? Apr 06 18:41:21 same same, but different Apr 06 18:57:05 rooly Apr 06 19:43:45 intone works well Apr 06 19:46:57 slaxxin: yup Apr 06 19:47:19 comes back to like when coming out of suspend Apr 06 19:47:55 it should prevent suspending though and just turn off the screen Apr 06 19:49:03 yes that would be great Apr 06 19:56:41 Hmm Apr 06 19:56:49 Will software development for the gta02 (freerunner) continue? /. made it sound like the whole openmoko project was dead. Apr 06 19:57:13 I'm sure it will continue in one form or another since it's Free software. But will it slow? And do we ever expect to have a user friendly phone out of it? Apr 06 19:57:13 tessier_: looks lit it Apr 06 19:57:15 like Apr 06 20:00:02 slaxxin: intone? Apr 06 20:00:24 tessier_: Has it been fast so far? ;) Apr 06 20:01:34 azaghal: Has what been fast so far? The pace of development? Depends on how you look at it. A lot has been done. But I still don't have an iPhone replacement. :) Apr 06 20:01:49 It's been months since I've used my phone. I need to flash it up to current and see how it does. Apr 06 20:02:21 tessier_: Heck, who wants to turn Neo Freerunner into a closed proprietary phone anyway? :) It'll never be an iPhone replacement :D Apr 06 20:03:10 azaghal: You don't have to be closed/proprietary to replace it. Apr 06 20:03:13 Just be functional. Apr 06 20:03:21 I was being ironic. Apr 06 20:03:23 Joking ;) Apr 06 20:03:25 ok :) Apr 06 20:04:41 03252009 shrunstable is good with the rc-3 kernel Apr 06 20:04:49 - Apr 06 20:05:56 it was suspended for 20 minuits an still unsuspended back into the same spot in the song:) Apr 06 20:06:42 very nice app Apr 06 20:06:57 Yeah, how's the power saving stuff working these days? Before it would never sleep and my battery was done in hours. Apr 06 20:07:44 29 hours although u must reboot each morning unless u shut it off overnite Apr 06 20:09:29 check the distros page Apr 06 20:09:31 slaxxin, why do you have to reboot? Apr 06 20:09:48 gsm quits i think Apr 06 20:10:05 just read that Apr 06 20:10:25 hmm, i don't have that problem, but I have a gta01, I wonder if other people have to reboot Apr 06 20:10:28 i dont know Apr 06 20:10:59 im using unstable to Apr 06 20:10:59 slaxxin, have you a link maybe? Apr 06 20:11:09 whaty/ Apr 06 20:11:18 shr unstAabl? Apr 06 20:11:29 about reboot, yes Apr 06 20:11:45 i cant remember where it was Apr 06 20:12:01 let me think stand back Apr 06 20:12:08 :) Apr 06 20:12:50 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Apr 06 20:12:58 at the bottom Apr 06 20:13:07 maybe outdated Apr 06 20:13:32 thanks Apr 06 20:26:08 damn.. according to dot slash google + tmobile are going to trounce da moko's plan b.. Apr 06 20:31:20 http://tech.yahoo.com/news/afp/20090406/tc_afp/usittelecominternettmobilegoogle Apr 06 21:28:21 http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/06/openmoko-freerunner-canceled-staff-slashed/ Apr 06 21:28:26 whats this news about ? Apr 06 21:28:48 no more openmoko Apr 06 21:29:06 :( Apr 06 21:29:24 gfather: relax Apr 06 21:29:58 the comunity lives on Apr 06 21:30:03 the phones are out there Apr 06 21:30:25 and worst case is that we need to hack android phones Apr 06 21:31:43 but all the work on the disto's Apr 06 21:31:52 *distros Apr 06 21:33:22 i was happy today that at last i will be able to get rtl support and localize it Apr 06 21:33:29 the comments on the article were not so bad though Apr 06 21:33:41 now im sad Apr 06 21:33:44 gfather, this news is only about gta03 Apr 06 21:34:03 gfather: todo bien Apr 06 21:34:05 openmoko as company not dead, and they continue work on gta02 Apr 06 21:34:33 they will release gta02v07 soon (with all hardware bug/buzz fixes) Apr 06 21:34:50 and have some internel "project B" Apr 06 21:35:55 they could still fire all their staff and just keep the comunity going and produce gta02v07, just keep bying it, it gets more value relative every day :D Apr 06 21:37:50 and now you can use it as a phone even :D Apr 06 21:39:01 :) well i need to sleep Apr 06 21:39:35 but i hope the comunity still , and i hope they release a new devise somehow in project b Apr 06 21:40:48 ce ya later guys Apr 06 21:41:21 later Apr 06 21:44:38 hey, OM did a really bad job (once again) to communicate this. Basically with GTA02A8 we reached end of hw-enum (3 pins ;) and anyway there's no further bugfix anywhere on the horizon that would create need for a GTA02A9 (except low-bass maybe). So think of GTA02 as finalized (hw-side). It's only reasonable to reduce R&D effort for this product, and start to *sell* Apr 06 21:46:04 true Apr 06 21:46:48 sorry, why *bad job*? Apr 06 21:47:39 somehow it came down like "OM is stopping to produce FR" and actually many papers are writing this FUD Apr 06 21:48:13 finalized gta02 isn't so bad), btw, DocScrutinizer how many gta02 selled already? Apr 06 21:48:34 DocScrutinizer: raster said the software side got - largely - sacked - is this incorrect? Apr 06 21:48:34 papers say 10k. Think this is about right Apr 06 21:48:45 yup Apr 06 21:48:57 ah. Apr 06 21:49:40 hm... I thought, it was only about july's part Apr 06 21:49:47 so GTA02 & openmoko(the kernel/distri) is getting closer to become a veritable community project ;-) Apr 06 21:49:49 DocScrutinizer: well - OM is at fault too - note the lack of news on the website. Apr 06 21:50:03 DocScrutinizer: I'm currently thinking about and working on test and then writing up a blog post and mails to clear up the myths surrounding GTA02 Apr 06 21:50:13 dont underestimaete communities with a commuity device lol Apr 06 21:50:13 OM is abysmal wrt Apr 06 21:50:27 s/ wrt// Apr 06 21:50:33 Even Sean stated at the OpenExpo that the FR misses calls Apr 06 21:51:01 I am using it for 6 months now and it has been stable in that regard for over three Apr 06 21:51:55 Sean doesn't know his own product. that's no problem as long as he doesn't speak or take decisions :-) Apr 06 21:52:18 So there really is work to be done wrt FR myths Apr 06 21:52:33 yup, a big deal of work Apr 06 21:52:38 Hi, I was just at a talk by a guy from mozilla he was talking about fennec. It will eventually be ff for the mobile Apr 06 21:52:53 I herd FR lieks mudkips. Apr 06 21:53:05 ugh, I tried FF on the FR last night, brutally slow Apr 06 21:53:06 anttna: Large and slow? SCNR Apr 06 21:53:18 fenec != FF Apr 06 21:53:46 and again. I note that I have run FF - 1.5/2 on a comparable platform in recent times - PII/300/64M RAM Apr 06 21:53:53 and it was quite acceptable. Apr 06 21:54:31 pII-300 is about twice as fast as 2442 I'd say Apr 06 21:55:05 alphaone: he wasn't too keen to talk about memory footprint, right enough he admitted it depended on the platform . So I guess it could be a problem Apr 06 21:55:09 Anyone knows about Maemo Mer? Apr 06 21:55:12 and probably you had a decent swap partition to support your 64MB Apr 06 21:55:20 as for me, I hope opera will be released some day Apr 06 21:55:40 Midori's not so bad. Apr 06 21:55:51 midoris is bad if speak about rendering Apr 06 21:56:09 for me main problem isn't speed, but horizontal scrolls Apr 06 21:56:15 shellevil: maybe even 133MHz RAM Apr 06 21:56:38 They are primarily developing on nokia tablet Apr 06 21:57:00 shellevil: there were PII300 boards/chipsets that could do 133 Apr 06 21:57:07 DocScrutinizer: well - I actually was running AES swap - 5M/s, and 100MHz SDRAM Apr 06 21:58:17 anttna: Still, some cooperation might be possible? Apr 06 21:58:35 They've managed to build quite a nice stable distro with Maemo. Apr 06 21:58:46 who? Apr 06 21:59:05 (not for Freerunner) Apr 06 21:59:17 azaghal: They have used fr but didn't like the fact that they needed hw fixes Apr 06 21:59:19 DocScrutinizer: yes - and it's got oodles more cache, ... I'm not saying it's the same speed - I'm saying it's of a comparable order of magnitude. Apr 06 21:59:32 azaghal: stop talking bout maemo >:-( boots every day for no reason here Apr 06 21:59:55 boots? Apr 06 22:00:03 DocScrutinizer: meaning I was attempting to put FF1.5 on GTA01 - until life got in the way and my time available plummeted Apr 06 22:00:13 yup.. klingklangklong booot Apr 06 22:00:22 compiled but diddn't start beyond the profile screen Apr 06 22:00:32 reboot Apr 06 22:00:33 DocScrutinizer, one more question to insider, how many gta02v07 OM planning to sell? Apr 06 22:00:41 All of them! Apr 06 22:00:56 * hipitihop bids good morning from aus Apr 06 22:01:25 max_posedon: lol, as much as possible I'd guess :P Apr 06 22:01:43 but I think they have some plan) Apr 06 22:02:03 Given that 'project B' isn't a phone - reportedly - then GTA02 is it Apr 06 22:02:08 I don't think that gta02v07 created for selling say 500devices Apr 06 22:02:12 If you want a OM phone Apr 06 22:02:23 max_posedon: 07 is a trivil mod of GTA02 Apr 06 22:02:40 because as I know, many non-main-shops still have gta02 in stocks Apr 06 22:02:45 max_posedon: it wasn't 'created' it was just 'ooops' - better fix revisions. Apr 06 22:02:46 max_posedon: I know for sure there are more than that already built at fab Apr 06 22:02:55 hipitihop: Gah, enough with the mornings, I have a lot of work tomorrow, let me sleep at least :P Apr 06 22:03:56 * shellevil wishes some of the silly dreams at the start would emerge as reality. Apr 06 22:04:01 shellevil, I understand it, I just preparing slides for one linux conf about neo, and want brake many myths) Apr 06 22:04:01 Parts store forex. Apr 06 22:07:41 There are myths on both sides - FR isn't stable phone, and it isn't useless. Apr 06 22:07:57 or ratehr - stable user-ready phone Apr 06 22:08:00 as some imply Apr 06 22:08:15 (for average, not deeply knowledgable users) Apr 06 22:08:51 isn't stable, but it is ready to use for people, if they don't need phone for everday-work. Apr 06 22:09:08 but only for geeks, yes. Apr 06 22:09:43 I haven't missed any calls, (just can't sometimes answer, but no problem to recall) Apr 06 22:10:20 sometimes have problem with shr and sms's, but always can read them manually from dbus. Apr 06 22:10:26 And GTA01 is about the same state of hardware readyness as GTA02v07 as I understand it. Apr 06 22:10:45 so, I'm optimistic in this point of view. Apr 06 22:12:43 If the SW side was as polished as the hardware - ... Apr 06 22:12:52 * mwester decides that a bit of reality in this channel might go over about as well as a bucket of ice water, and decides to leave the rose-colored glasses and optimism be Apr 06 22:15:01 ah, kernel hackers Apr 06 22:15:02 mwester: i called it a week after i got my neo. i dont think it'd go over worse than it did then Apr 06 22:16:39 It'll get worse; it won't be long before people will start blaming the "community who didn't come up with software" for the failure. Apr 06 22:16:42 mwester, ))) I'm using gta02 from september, and you know, I have to say for all developers who do smth for gta02 "Thanks, greate work!". Because it really, *really* better. and even usable as phone. Apr 06 22:17:17 right now, I think that pda's part is problem. Apr 06 22:17:32 just no software that are ready. Apr 06 22:21:00 max_posedon: pda? please can you explain this Apr 06 22:21:53 I now have Qi flashed. Anyone know if Android can be booted from uSD or must it be flashed Apr 06 22:22:32 anttna, web browser, IM clients, audio/video players Apr 06 22:22:33 * hipitihop scrambles back to wiki in case he missed something Apr 06 22:22:52 now what we have is smth like prof-of-concept Apr 06 22:28:31 hey all Apr 06 22:37:35 anyone here getting segfaults with vagalume? Apr 06 22:37:44 me Apr 06 22:38:01 mwester: In many ways they are. But is the community to blame for that failure - I'd say not. Apr 06 22:38:02 and when I try to uninstall it, tast-shr-gtk sepends on it for some reason Apr 06 22:38:06 found a workaround/solution? Apr 06 22:38:49 yes, but it involves not using vagalume Apr 06 22:39:34 also, I can't seem to run mokometeo even after copying question.png to ~/.mokometeo/img/ Apr 06 22:40:48 ndnihil, so what's the workaround? Apr 06 22:46:08 badcloud: I call it "don't use vagalume" Apr 06 22:46:29 good one Apr 06 22:47:00 not helpful, but slightly amusing anyway Apr 06 23:23:55 can anyone tell me if a 512mg uSD is sufficient to try Adnroid ? Apr 06 23:36:49 is there a list of stuff that made it to vanilla kernel ? Apr 06 23:37:55 none Apr 06 23:38:06 think they're working on it Apr 06 23:38:15 getting things upstream Apr 06 23:38:21 hipitihop: plentyy Apr 06 23:38:30 I thought there are things that went upstream already ? Apr 06 23:38:47 check the kernel mailinglist Apr 06 23:39:46 CVirus: nothing that will stand on its own at this time. Apr 06 23:40:02 mwester: thanks... flashing 'panicking' shortly, hope it works with Qi Apr 06 23:41:26 mwester: not a single line of code went upstream ? Apr 06 23:42:25 I didn't say that. Apr 06 23:43:08 Some of the bits and pieces went up, IIRC. But not enough that you can take the virgin kernel git repo, enable "GTA02" in the defconfig, and get anything that will boot. Apr 06 23:43:42 yeah I get it Apr 06 23:44:02 CVirus: some alsa/wm8753 stuff went upstream Apr 06 23:44:18 mmontour: cool .. thanks for the info Apr 06 23:44:30 is the WSOD gone ? Apr 06 23:44:39 I haven't been following up lately Apr 06 23:44:44 depends of the kernel Apr 06 23:45:11 and the bootloader, but with Qi and latest shr-unstable kernel I'm happy Apr 06 23:45:19 is there a kernel/distro combination that would render my phone usable for more than 24 hours ? Apr 06 23:47:00 CVirus: qt-extended Apr 06 23:47:10 nice Apr 06 23:48:02 CVirus: there is now qt-extended-improved but I have not yet tried... currently flashing android to see if it is comparable Apr 06 23:48:08 :) SHR is pretty good too, at this point. Apr 06 23:48:53 Whats the battery life like when using qt extended? Apr 06 23:49:02 mwester: any recent screenshots about of shr ? Apr 06 23:50:07 CVirus: go with shr Apr 06 23:50:18 fredrin: cool Apr 06 23:50:24 or shr-unstable that i guess soon will be testing Apr 06 23:50:35 it's nice living on the edge Apr 06 23:50:37 :) Apr 06 23:50:40 saracen: obviously depends on your level of usage, but in suspend it feels like near 48 hours is possible, but have not measured Apr 06 23:51:42 hipitihop: ty :) Apr 06 23:56:35 gta03 mailinglist is up :) Apr 07 00:03:35 just in time for it to be cancelled Apr 07 00:07:08 I have GTA03s for sale. Only $100. Apr 07 00:07:24 * SpeedEvil puts away the pile of housebricks and marker. Apr 07 00:07:43 eh, no wifi, cant be bothered Apr 07 00:07:44 :) Apr 07 00:07:44 hurah, android panicking seems to boot fine with Qi Apr 07 00:12:39 * mwester fishes some old paper from the trash bin, tears it up into pound-size pieces, fetches a few colored markers, and asks SpeedEvil where to send the $100 for the GTA03. Apr 07 00:24:30 * fredrin is streaming mp3 and playing music at the same time with the FR :D Apr 07 00:24:44 now try making a phone call. Apr 07 00:24:59 i can call you, hehe Apr 07 00:25:14 BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!! Apr 07 00:29:33 hmmm, seems android can't read contacts off the sim :-( Apr 07 00:41:01 * fredrin likes the thought of mwester dollars, backed by mwester himself Apr 07 00:41:35 'Promise to pay the bearer on demand - one pound of mwester' Apr 07 00:41:50 how many hours do that translate into? Apr 07 00:42:11 or the international currency beer Apr 07 00:43:35 we should have moko credits Apr 07 00:59:37 well, given android a few minutes and although some nice features, I think I'm ready to reflash to something else Apr 07 01:00:57 psst shr Apr 07 01:02:36 unstable Apr 07 01:03:45 psychopathic Apr 07 01:05:28 fredrin: I assume from here : http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ Apr 07 01:06:19 or unstable http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ Apr 07 01:06:31 that i think soon is going to be testing Apr 07 01:06:37 http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ Apr 07 01:06:57 fredrin: I see, sorry. Do I need all the modules-*.tgz also ? Apr 07 01:07:10 intone rocks Apr 07 01:08:15 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Apr 07 01:08:24 http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin Apr 07 01:08:53 intone is sweet Apr 07 01:10:34 kernel-module-whiteheat_2.6.28 Apr 07 01:10:43 what the hell Apr 07 01:10:54 opkg upgraded Apr 07 01:11:36 i guess i will see Apr 07 01:25:58 hipitihop: done? Apr 07 01:26:20 hey, does this link work for anyone? Apr 07 01:26:27 http://www.darkspace.net Apr 07 01:26:42 fail Apr 07 01:27:05 damnit Apr 07 01:28:09 looks like opkg upgrade just changed everything on me phone Apr 07 01:29:47 like what? Apr 07 01:30:07 every frikin thing Apr 07 01:30:23 does it look differently? Apr 07 01:30:57 i have to reboot Apr 07 01:32:27 added pCalc Apr 07 01:32:35 calculator Apr 07 01:32:59 i was checking to see if things worked before reboot Apr 07 01:34:12 http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2009/04/wile-e-reality-catches-up-to-freerunner.html lol Apr 07 01:37:09 fredrin: still downloading image Apr 07 01:40:53 How can I view missed calls in SHR? Apr 07 01:41:06 lymeca: phonelog Apr 07 01:43:36 looks like shr opkg upgraded just fine:) Apr 07 01:43:45 unstable Apr 07 01:44:22 no sound Apr 07 01:44:36 have you run depmod ? Apr 07 01:44:42 How are you gentlemen? Apr 07 01:44:49 if lots of modules got upgaded Apr 07 01:44:51 nope Apr 07 01:44:56 alt bra Apr 07 01:45:04 damn...phonelog crashes every time I try to open it Apr 07 01:45:52 alt dot crash Apr 07 01:46:11 "stopped running unexpectedly" "code of 1 was returned fro python /usr/bin/python..." "there was no error messa... Apr 07 01:46:12 crash Apr 07 01:46:32 A series of badly placed windows Apr 07 01:46:56 lymeca which os? Apr 07 01:49:03 shr unstable or testing? Apr 07 01:52:13 who is modifying the shr kernels? Apr 07 01:52:41 testing Apr 07 01:52:42 fredrin: seems to be a slow server, only getting 12kb/sec Apr 07 01:56:07 $ opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/pong_0.1_armv4t.ipk Apr 07 01:56:08 Downloading http://www.opkg.org/packages/pong_0.1_armv4t.ipk Apr 07 01:56:08 Terminated Apr 07 01:56:15 any ideas what would cause that? Apr 07 01:56:18 seen it on a few packages Apr 07 01:56:54 wget'ing the file works fine Apr 07 01:57:19 but then Apr 07 01:57:19 <:P Apr 07 01:57:20 $ opkg install pong_0.1_armv4t.ipk Apr 07 01:57:20 Terminated Apr 07 01:58:28 ndnihil: OOM killer Apr 07 01:59:04 * ndnihil googles Apr 07 01:59:28 short of memory eh Apr 07 01:59:33 Check if you have something filling up /var/volatile (which is where /tmp redirects) Apr 07 02:00:02 volatile 60400 8460 51940 14% /var/volatile Apr 07 02:00:07 shoudl be plenty of space Apr 07 02:00:13 s/shoudl/should/ Apr 07 02:00:13 ndnihil meant: should be plenty of space Apr 07 02:00:14 You may not be short of memory, opkg is just one of the most horribly-written apps ever created, and it trips the OOM killer when you have plenty left. Apr 07 02:00:29 gotcha Apr 07 02:01:26 strange that it only does it on specific packages Apr 07 02:02:54 hey! the wiki talks about Android for the FreeRunner. Has it been ported to the Neo? Thanks. Apr 07 02:03:50 Pong? :p Apr 07 02:04:32 yes pong Apr 07 02:04:38 it was my first video game Apr 07 02:04:39 I loved it Apr 07 02:06:56 wow, omnewrotate actually works pretty well Apr 07 02:10:28 hah, this is great Apr 07 02:10:33 http://www.opkg.org/package_138.html Apr 07 02:10:37 "look what I wrote honey?" Apr 07 02:10:41 er Apr 07 02:10:45 s/?/! Apr 07 02:10:47 / Apr 07 02:10:56 I bet that went over well Apr 07 02:11:20 "oh look, phone says its time for you to stfu" Apr 07 02:13:33 oh my Apr 07 02:15:42 I'm tempted to break it out next time girl starts screeching about something Apr 07 02:16:02 I bet the response will be worth it Apr 07 02:16:51 ha Apr 07 02:17:18 DukeOfURL: yes running it on my gta02 at the moment but fair bit still broken Apr 07 02:17:21 * mwester suspects that it could be worse; the shape of the neo would make it easier as she shoves it down one's throat. Apr 07 02:17:26 booting todays shr unstable Apr 07 02:21:19 well the selection menu at first boot sucks since it doesnt work correctly Apr 07 02:23:44 me likes opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/OptimSMS_1.1_armv4t.opk and opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/illume-keyboards-numbers-alt_0.3_all.opk Apr 07 02:31:22 does anyone else get random defunct xset processes? Apr 07 02:44:40 -_- Apr 07 02:50:10 DAVE Apr 07 02:50:30 broken anythings? Apr 07 02:55:37 intone fails on latest shr -unstasble **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 07 02:59:58 2009