**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 16 02:59:57 2009
Apr 16 05:43:10 <pundiramit> hi.. is there opengl es library available for developers?
Apr 16 05:44:41 <pundiramit> do we have Clutter port (clutter-project) available for openmoko?
Apr 16 06:44:27 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * re904855e2ffd 10/ (10 files in 2 dirs): 
Apr 16 06:44:27 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: added signal handlers for NameOwnerChanged
Apr 16 06:44:27 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: added Ping for all DBus object every 5 mins
Apr 16 06:44:27 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: added first_ping to avoid ping floods on an object
Apr 16 06:44:28 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * rd8b959e786fb 10/.gitignore: Merge branch 'master' of git@git.freesmartphone.org:fso-monitord
Apr 16 06:44:31 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r4562f60656fa 10/src/ (8 files): 
Apr 16 06:44:32 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Corrected NameOwnerChanged behavior
Apr 16 06:44:34 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: add busname to System, which is needed for NameOwnerChanged
Apr 16 06:44:36 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: added missing try..catch in framework
Apr 16 06:44:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r4708250d22a9 10/.gitignore: added binary to .gitignore
Apr 16 06:57:36 <methril|work> morning
Apr 16 07:19:23 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r304a54cc073a 10/src/monitor.vala: Removed GetVersion call in Subsystem
Apr 16 08:40:32 <th0br0> rip openmoko ://// sad thing to hear.
Apr 16 08:41:13 <max_posedon> th0br0, earth is flat
Apr 16 08:41:25 <th0br0> well, i meant rip from the official side :D
Apr 16 08:41:28 <max_posedon> earth is in a middle of world
Apr 16 08:41:34 <th0br0> ?
Apr 16 08:46:47 <jc> pcfe: morning.
Apr 16 08:47:09 <pcfe> good morning
Apr 16 08:48:01 <jc> pcfe: this is ray, we meet in Berlin in ccc.
Apr 16 08:56:54 <DeosamoX> Hey where do i get a open phone on mexico?
Apr 16 08:57:24 <dns53> openmoko.com has the stores around the world
Apr 16 09:06:43 <Psi> is there a "Plan B" wiki page anywhere, containing what we know/or think plan B is?
Apr 16 09:09:38 <playya> Psi, no. plan b is top secret
Apr 16 09:09:49 <Psi> i know, but there must be rumors
Apr 16 09:09:58 <Psi> or alteast, thinks we know plan B is NOT
Apr 16 09:10:04 <Psi> *things
Apr 16 09:10:32 <Psi> i just noticed someone on the mailing list said "plan B (we already know
Apr 16 09:10:34 <Psi> that it is another device, not a mobile phone)"
Apr 16 09:10:52 <Psi> so was wondering if there was a page with all the info we do know so far
Apr 16 09:11:33 <jc> Psi: according Steve Mosher's interview, yes.  He addressed project B is not a telecom product.
Apr 16 09:11:48 <Psi> yeah, that kinda info
Apr 16 09:12:01 <Psi> i dont know anything about plan B so far
Apr 16 09:12:45 <dns53> my guess is a pda or gps device as they are similar enough but who knows
Apr 16 09:13:35 <Psi> yeah, if you remove all the phone stuff things get much simpler
Apr 16 09:14:05 <Psi> dont need to get it tested to comply with FCC etc..
Apr 16 09:14:23 <jc> Psi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ
Apr 16 09:14:38 <jc> Psi: about 1:50.
Apr 16 09:16:51 <Psi> be nice if they made a new device with no phone stuff but enough room inside and correct connector so we could buy an existing 3rd party prebuilt 3G gsm module and shove it inside :)
Apr 16 09:17:22 <Psi> that way the module would have already been tested etc.. so should be pretty easy to do
Apr 16 09:17:37 <CVirus> project B is a linux based Tamagotchi
Apr 16 09:17:38 <Psi> of course the module itself would be $$$
Apr 16 09:17:56 <Psi> i think a lot of people would buy it tho
Apr 16 09:18:12 <Psi> even if it was say $400 for device and $300 for 3G module
Apr 16 09:18:37 <CVirus> this company should be called Openmoko anymore ... just Moko is fine with it
Apr 16 09:18:50 <CVirus> shouldn't*
Apr 16 09:19:03 <pcfe> jc: ah, good morning Ray.
Apr 16 09:19:23 <CVirus> 4th quarter == in 2 years
Apr 16 09:19:38 <CVirus> trust me
Apr 16 09:20:37 <jc> CVirus: may be a toaster.
Apr 16 09:20:46 <CVirus> probably
Apr 16 09:21:43 <jc> pcfe: haven't chat with you since back from CCC. how's going there?
Apr 16 09:24:11 <pcfe> jc: it's goig good. Spring hast started here, that is always good. OM wise still playing a lot with it, got myself a debug board at Fosdem to be able to let myself back in in case of massive bootloader flashing fubar
Apr 16 09:24:16 <Psi> heh @ toaster
Apr 16 09:24:33 <pcfe> jc: and yourself, how are you?
Apr 16 09:24:34 <Psi> openmoko starts the first cylon war
Apr 16 09:28:32 <jc> CVirus: According to Steve, project B will have more info next month.
Apr 16 10:01:49 <yan> anybody try buld fennec?
Apr 16 10:01:55 <yan> i build failed
Apr 16 10:02:11 <yan> log is configure: error: Compiler cannot compile macros used in autoconf tests.
Apr 16 10:52:15 * PaulFertser wonders if anyone can tell him maximum and minimum for pulldowns required for USB host. The idea is to use the same cable both for wall-charger-powered and FR-powered cases.
Apr 16 10:52:20 <PaulFertser> Will 30k pulldown be ok (for the external power case, for FR-powered it'd be 10k effectively)?
Apr 16 10:56:56 * shellevil drops the USB2 spec  on PaulFertser.
Apr 16 10:57:11 * shellevil has no real clue
Apr 16 10:57:43 <shellevil> I think it's 14k +-few% - but ...
Apr 16 10:58:05 <shellevil> what works in practice - who knows.
Apr 16 11:00:02 * PaulFertser should have grabbed ~30k Rs from work for a test.
Apr 16 11:01:38 <PaulFertser> And we even have some unused gpio's on SoC, too bad they're not used to selectively enable/disable those pulldowns.
Apr 16 11:09:50 <schasch> Hello, i successfulle made a "make fso-gta02-milestone5-image"...but the patched sources are deletetd...how can I bitbake tell to keep the compiled sources?
Apr 16 11:11:38 <PaulFertser> schasch: try to use an appropriate -c switch (manual is at http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ch04s02.html#id870093 )
Apr 16 11:12:45 <schasch> Paulferster:::I do not understand "appropriate -c" but I will search it in your link
Apr 16 11:14:56 * max_posedon summons DocScrutinizer
Apr 16 11:15:45 <PaulFertser> schasch: there's in example "-c clean", "-c build" etc. I guess there's also "unpack" or something like that.
Apr 16 11:16:50 <schasch> wich config/fsomakefile doe have to be edited?
Apr 16 11:17:27 <PaulFertser> schasch: none. You just do "bitbake -c build soft-you-need"
Apr 16 11:18:25 <schasch> Paulfertser:::thanks.....In wich directory?
Apr 16 11:19:05 <schasch> I build it with fsomakefile
Apr 16 11:19:45 <PaulFertser> schasch: in the directory to where OE git repo was cloned. I've never read fsomakefile, should be easy to find out.
Apr 16 11:22:17 <PaulFertser> lindi-: backlight 11 problem is easily reproducible here with xglamo and latest kernel. So i'd say it's confirmed and is still present.
Apr 16 11:30:46 <thrashold> Are the writes getting to the SD card delayed? My phone just crashed, and e2fsck reported a vim swp file damaged. I was editing the file in question like some minutes before the crash, and I had closed it. I was editing another file at that same moment, but the swp file was nowhere to be found. As if the crash made my filesystem go back 2 minutes in time. 
Apr 16 11:40:53 <PaulFertser> lindi-: in fact i know the reason. Will try to cook a patch.
Apr 16 11:48:25 <schasch> I can not find the directory for ". ../setup-env ; bitbake glibc in moko_fso
Apr 16 11:48:25 <schasch> "...alway bitbake error....but it works in my moko(om_2007)....
Apr 16 11:49:25 <shellevil> PaulFertser: yeah - GPIOs should all be brought out on a little bit of internal veroboard :)
Apr 16 11:49:53 <PaulFertser> shellevil: in fact sometimes not all bga pins could be routed at all.
Apr 16 11:50:08 <shellevil> I know
Apr 16 11:50:23 <shellevil> unless you put in more layerss, or go to more aggressive spacings
Apr 16 11:50:28 <shellevil> neither of which are cheap alas.
Apr 16 11:50:57 * shellevil is currently trying to avoid 6 layers on a teeny design.
Apr 16 11:52:00 <PaulFertser> shellevil: i've seen a guy yesterday at some exhibition who talked about tricky routing techniques including uVia's (vias going only from the topmost layer to the next, not through the whole board). And with all his tricks combined he showed that it's possible to route some huge (>700 iirc) bga in 4 layers.
Apr 16 11:54:08 <shellevil> yep
Apr 16 11:54:24 <shellevil> find a vendor that'll do em cheap...
Apr 16 11:54:41 <shellevil> It'll come
Apr 16 11:54:57 <shellevil> mobile phone densities and volumes demand it. 
Apr 16 11:55:08 <shellevil> And it'll  trickle down into more normal stuff
Apr 16 12:06:37 <PaulFertser> lindi-: please see the kernel ML and close #2262.
Apr 16 12:11:19 <PaulFertser> BTW, for all those who is using the latest SHR unstable or OM2009 unstable (that is, using the HEAD of andy-tracking branch) and can and wish to report kernel bugs/regressions, it's about the time to do it as Nelson is going to tag a stable release soon. Feel free to discuss issues on IRC or add a ticket to OM trac. Please refrain from senseless/non-reproducible/undebuggable/not-kernel-bugs reports! Thanks in advance.
Apr 16 12:35:38 <lindi-> PaulFertser: No handler matched request to /2262
Apr 16 12:35:56 <lindi-> PaulFertser: ah sorry, trac is not debbugs :)
Apr 16 12:46:27 <PaulFertser> lindi-: easy fix, isn't it? ;)
Apr 16 13:08:21 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * re40725779c90 10/tests/dtest/ (fsotest.py tests/usage.py): dtest: Add DBus interface and object caching
Apr 16 13:45:48 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r3e23ca2a7003 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_messages.py: opimd: remove unnecessary syslog line
Apr 16 13:45:49 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rf1360f7fbd20 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_messages.py: opimd: fix incorrect variable name
Apr 16 13:45:50 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r542c7e13e021 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_messages.py: 
Apr 16 13:45:50 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: opimd: fix inconsistence with Messages and Contacts API
Apr 16 13:45:51 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Since now opimd Messages should work :)
Apr 16 13:51:12 <PaulFertser> lindi-: btw, are you sure that your ramconsole patch should be applied to official OM tree? I guess any dev can apply it himself, isn't it too much to expect from ordinary users to adjust boot environment (ram and watchdog setting) anyway? I mean, should #2135 really be a blocker for "stable" kernel release?
Apr 16 14:09:27 <bernt> When I  try to compile git://git.freesmartphone.org/libgsm0710mux.git, there is no "#include <errno.h>" in channel.c and transport.c. But in multiplexer.c it is. How do I get this into the other files too?
Apr 16 14:40:56 <lindi-> PaulFertser: the patch should be improved so that changing boot loader options is not necessary
Apr 16 14:41:29 <lindi-> PaulFertser: i didn't set it as a blocker but imho it's really help kernel developers
Apr 16 15:37:27 <eolson> interesting that it's not just openmoko who had difficulty selling things in 2009:  Nokia's profits drop 90% in Q1 2009  http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/16/nokias-profits-drop-90-in-q1-2009/
Apr 16 15:39:28 <playya> eolson, they only had to pay some additional buisness fees in ungary ;)
Apr 16 16:32:09 <alephnull> When I boot om2009 (paroli), I get a bunch of 'no space left on device' errors and then it stop at a login prompt.
Apr 16 16:33:55 <slaxxer> installed to nand?
Apr 16 16:34:45 <PBeck> ahoi
Apr 16 16:37:59 <alephnull> slaxxer: yes.
Apr 16 16:38:22 <alephnull> via dfu-util.
Apr 16 16:42:18 <Digital_Pioneer> For some reason, none of the accelerometer based apps work on my SHR-unstable.
Apr 16 16:42:40 <ndnihil> accels work on shr testing
Apr 16 16:42:57 <Digital_Pioneer> hexdump /dev/input/event{2,3} shows data correctly, but (for instance) mokomaze will never respond to tilting the phone.
Apr 16 16:49:28 <slaxxer> did u use that paroli  jffs2 file or the latest fso-unstable or what?
Apr 16 16:50:12 <slaxxer> ive found the fso of late to be fairly useable
Apr 16 17:01:35 <DocScrutinizer> Digital_Pioneer: absolute vs relative coords issue?
Apr 16 17:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> Digital_Pioneer: just wild guessing
Apr 16 17:02:23 <Digital_Pioneer> DocScrutinizer: No clue what that means, but would it cause the ball in mokomaze to remain entirely immobile?
Apr 16 17:04:50 <DocScrutinizer> Digital_Pioneer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_data_retrieval#Event_types
Apr 16 17:05:23 <DocScrutinizer> somewhere I seem to remember to have read about event type changing from 2 to 3 or sth like that
Apr 16 17:05:40 <Digital_Pioneer> Hmm, that would probably do it.
Apr 16 17:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> maybe that's very ld stuff
Apr 16 17:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> old
Apr 16 17:05:54 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
Apr 16 17:06:09 <DocScrutinizer> Digital_Pioneer: just wild guessing
Apr 16 17:12:14 <mwester> Yeah, the accels was another of those  "let's make the kernel do the right thing but not worry about userspace at all" changes.
Apr 16 17:12:18 <mwester> Sigh.
Apr 16 17:12:39 <slaxxer> switch your feeds to testing, or flash the new testing image when it'll be out, as we're probably going to break unstable in the next few days.
Apr 16 17:12:44 <slaxxer> quote
Apr 16 17:12:47 <mwester> You know, I want for the electric company to show up at every kernel dev's home this afternoon:
Apr 16 17:12:52 <slaxxer> unquote
Apr 16 17:13:04 <mwester> And I want them to change EVERY electrical outlet to something they've never seen before.
Apr 16 17:13:07 <mwester> Then just leave.
Apr 16 17:13:38 <mwester> And when they call to complain, they'll all be told "well, now the outlets are correct, just change every cord in your house. no problem."
Apr 16 17:14:07 <slaxxer> mechanics nightmare
Apr 16 17:14:26 <slaxxer> engineers do suck 
Apr 16 17:15:37 <slaxxer> most all things are designed to work  an then quit working
Apr 16 17:15:52 <mwester> no, not all.
Apr 16 17:16:10 <slaxxer> name 1
Apr 16 17:16:53 <slaxxer> besides a refrigerator that was designed before the first great depression
Apr 16 17:17:16 <slaxxer> o an debian
Apr 16 17:17:16 <alephnull> slaxxer: The testing images http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/testing/
Apr 16 17:18:18 <alephnull> slaxxer: I tried both paroli and fso-image jffs2.
Apr 16 17:19:56 * shellevil gives slaxxer icy balls.
Apr 16 17:20:13 <slaxxer> ouch
Apr 16 17:20:21 <alephnull> hmmm, and now the phone refuses to boot.
Apr 16 17:20:32 <shellevil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icyball
Apr 16 17:20:59 <slaxxer> http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/
Apr 16 17:21:10 <toggles_w> crikey, what a ripper
Apr 16 17:21:19 <slaxxer> i used daily
Apr 16 17:22:33 <slaxxer> paroli an zhone together working
Apr 16 17:23:10 <alephnull> slaxxer: Which kernel ? Qi is already up to date.
Apr 16 17:23:28 <slaxxer> paroli is fast on this image coming from suspend
Apr 16 17:23:31 <The-Butch> hi@all
Apr 16 17:23:38 <slaxxer> i use uboot
Apr 16 17:24:19 <slaxxer> before the phone rings at primary end the phone is out of suspend
Apr 16 17:24:27 <The-Butch> is someone here who can help me with dbus?
Apr 16 17:25:17 <DocScrutinizer> The-Butch: #openmoko-cdevel
Apr 16 17:48:00 <slaxxer> does intone work on the new shr-testing?
Apr 16 17:50:39 <slaxxer> 2.6.29 rc-2
Apr 16 18:04:30 <mmontour> mwester: it's not fair to say that the accel change was a "not worry about userspace at all". See http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-March/005081.html
Apr 16 18:05:27 <bumbl> ~spank Dave 
Apr 16 18:05:28 * apt bends Dave over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on Dave's pasty white buttocks.
Apr 16 18:05:56 <ndnihil> ~stab apt
Apr 16 18:05:57 * apt runs at apt with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.
Apr 16 18:06:17 <dos1> ~spank Dave
Apr 16 18:06:18 * apt bends Dave over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on Dave's pasty white buttocks.
Apr 16 18:06:35 <bumbl> ~help
Apr 16 18:07:31 <bumbl> ~slap Dave 
Apr 16 18:07:32 * apt slaps Dave, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Apr 16 18:07:38 <bumbl> ;)
Apr 16 18:07:46 <bumbl> we should have apt in cdevel
Apr 16 18:09:53 <mwester> mmontour:  Yeah, ok.  So we have to say that the accel change was a deliberate "tough luck, userspace!"
Apr 16 18:09:57 <mwester> Not sure that's any better.
Apr 16 18:10:05 <dos1> because he can spank Dave!
Apr 16 18:10:06 <dos1> ;D
Apr 16 18:16:24 <bumbl> dos1: because apt = navy seal trained buzzbot ;)
Apr 16 18:34:21 <alephnull> If I get errors in jffs_do_read_inode_internal about truncating an inode, is that because the jffs2 I flashed was corrupted or that my NAND is corrupted ?
Apr 16 18:35:05 <alephnull> I've tried today's and the testing image of om2009 (paroli) and I get the same error.
Apr 16 19:03:11 <Digital_Pioneer> mwester: So there was a change in the accelerometers?
Apr 16 19:08:17 <dos1> Digital_Pioneer: yes, there was
Apr 16 19:08:41 <Digital_Pioneer> IC. So that would explain why accelerometer-aware apps have ceased to function.
Apr 16 19:09:12 <Digital_Pioneer> I hope it was an upgrade. :P
Apr 16 19:09:34 <dos1> OpenMooCow works ;)
Apr 16 19:10:00 <Digital_Pioneer> Ahh, OK, well that's all the software I need. :D
Apr 16 19:11:29 <Think-Free> Hi ! Can somebody tell me how to add my blog to planet.openmoko.org ? I can find it anywhere :/
Apr 16 19:12:14 <Think-Free> found :)
Apr 16 20:05:56 <s_p> i am trying to build qemu-emulator and after running make get this error http://pastebin.com/d39d25d29
Apr 16 22:56:27 <badcloud> hello everybawdy
Apr 16 23:01:51 <badcloud> what's the status of gsm not working after a few hours in 2008.12?
Apr 16 23:04:04 <rooly> known
Apr 16 23:04:15 <alphaone> badcloud: My status is it works for days in FSO
Apr 16 23:09:27 <badcloud> same for me in shr, alphaone
Apr 16 23:10:26 <badcloud> but I'm still edgy about not being able to get sms's that are sent to me while the device is off
Apr 16 23:10:55 <badcloud> which doesn't happen in 2008.12
Apr 16 23:11:05 <badcloud> have you tested this in FSO?
Apr 16 23:11:13 <alphaone> badcloud: Huh?
Apr 16 23:11:21 <alphaone> Oh, they should be there
Apr 16 23:11:29 <badcloud> say someone sends you an sms while your phone is off
Apr 16 23:11:37 <badcloud> what happens when you turn it on?
Apr 16 23:11:44 <badcloud> to you get that sms?
Apr 16 23:11:45 <alphaone> I get the messages
Apr 16 23:11:47 <alphaone> yes
Apr 16 23:11:49 <badcloud> I see
Apr 16 23:11:55 <badcloud> I'll give fso a try
Apr 16 23:12:06 <badcloud> any kernel you recommend?
Apr 16 23:12:07 <alphaone> Though if I get more than one only the last one is shown..
Apr 16 23:12:15 <badcloud> blast
Apr 16 23:12:18 <badcloud> I give up
Apr 16 23:12:30 <alphaone> So you'd have to look through the message list yourself
Apr 16 23:12:46 <alphaone> (kernel) nothing out of the ordinary
Apr 16 23:13:16 <badcloud> wait, but does that mean that all of them show up in the inbox?
Apr 16 23:13:41 <badcloud> that's not half terrible
Apr 16 23:14:08 <badcloud> so do you actually receive all of them?
Apr 16 23:15:58 <badcloud> alphaone?
Apr 16 23:18:56 <alphaone> badcloud: YEah, they do
Apr 16 23:19:09 <alphaone> FSO uses SIM memory so your space might be limited
Apr 16 23:19:57 <badcloud> thanks
Apr 16 23:20:27 <alphaone> np
Apr 16 23:20:56 <alphaone> FSO meaning FSO + zhone in my case
Apr 17 02:21:25 <[_pablomino_]_> Hello folks !!
Apr 17 02:21:49 <[_pablomino_]_>  I would like to know a few things I was unable to find by my self about the qt my neo is running
Apr 17 02:22:10 <[_pablomino_]_> like where are the ringtones located? I found a few wav files so I put the new wav into the same directory but it was not recognized. any idea?
Apr 17 02:22:34 <[_pablomino_]_> and the second thing is how are the contacts stored? apart from the SIM card, on the device I mean. Which file? Because I removed the SIM card and started the neo without it and the contacts are still there... I could be nice to make a backup script or something...
Apr 17 02:22:54 <[_pablomino_]_> any clue?
Apr 17 02:38:31 <Digital_Pioneer> Anyone here know much about setting up bluetooth? :\
Apr 17 02:38:59 <rooly> its a pain in the ass is all i can say
Apr 17 02:39:06 <rooly> except in qtopia
Apr 17 02:39:13 <rooly> thats just annoying
Apr 17 02:41:41 <Digital_Pioneer> The FSO dbus bluetooth interfaces have disappeared...
Apr 17 02:47:00 <playya> Digital_Pioneer, what about:  mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/Bluetooth org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerControl.SetPower true
Apr 17 02:48:37 <Digital_Pioneer> playya: It's on.
Apr 17 02:49:21 <Digital_Pioneer> Ahh, there they are. Weird.
Apr 17 02:51:14 <Digital_Pioneer> Huh, weird.
Apr 17 02:51:22 <Digital_Pioneer> It says they aren't found...
Apr 17 02:51:26 <Digital_Pioneer> Even though it lists them.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 17 02:59:57 2009