**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 30 02:59:57 2009 Apr 30 07:17:19 good morning Apr 30 08:00:01 hi, I got a route 66 maxi PNA, which is S3C2412. What are my chances to get linux on it? as far as I understand, neo1973's S3C2410 is almost identical. any pointers? Apr 30 08:11:47 olegfink: do you have schematics? Information about other components? Serial console? JTAG? Apr 30 08:12:42 http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/Documentation/arm/Samsung-S3C24XX/S3C2412.txt looks like a good start Apr 30 08:13:42 hrm, seems ..10 and ..12 are quite different Apr 30 08:15:09 olegfink: do i understand it right that you're considering a vendor-unsupported port? The CPU itself is not a problem, the other components can be. Really, SoC should be ok. Take a look at gnufiish project to estimate the amount of effort porting requires. Apr 30 08:17:13 I think I have an idea about the effort such a port takes, I was asking more of what is already done. Apr 30 08:53:33 PaulFertser: maybe the question should be, are there linux ports to gps navigators? most of them use pretty much the same hardware. Apr 30 08:54:46 like the dash device that already is based on the same hardware? Apr 30 08:55:12 dash? Apr 30 08:55:45 tomtoms already run the leenooks Apr 30 08:56:13 tomtoms are the ones with different metal and silicon iirc. Apr 30 08:57:24 http://www.opentom.org/Microcontroller -- ah, not really that different Apr 30 11:22:38 whats up in the world of moko? Apr 30 11:23:59 whatever direction the accelerometers say Apr 30 11:24:21 thats always gonna be a disaster :-) Apr 30 11:24:43 fso seems to be getting there Apr 30 11:31:53 I see the kernel kinda stalled at 2.6.29 rc3 Apr 30 11:42:59 i'm trying to connect to my freerunner on debian lenny. when i do lsusb, the phone isn't listed. any help? Apr 30 11:44:53 have you turned the phone on, and connected it to the USB port with an appropriate working cable Apr 30 11:45:14 It won't show up as 'freerunner' typically Apr 30 11:45:28 but a usb ethernet device Apr 30 11:46:14 SpeedEvil: i have turned on the phone. i used to use Ubunty Hardy on which it was working. Apr 30 11:47:03 SpeedEvil: now i'm trying it out on Debian Lenny Apr 30 11:47:16 works for me on debian testing Apr 30 11:47:28 but as eth1 Apr 30 11:48:46 lord-carlos: ok... i have a very bare bones installation of lenny. so am i missing any packages? Apr 30 11:48:58 Ok - if it isn't showing up on lsusb - you have other problems Apr 30 11:49:17 it should show up on lsusb on any linux system with active USB at all Apr 30 11:49:24 you don't need any modules, or ... Apr 30 11:49:59 As long as usb works, you can enumerate all of the devices, you don't need any drivers for them. Apr 30 11:50:14 usbcore, uhci_hcd at least needed but they are loaded automatically Apr 30 11:50:15 SpeedEvil: hmmm i think i'll put out my dmesg out put on a pastebin Apr 30 11:50:24 hi lindi- :) Apr 30 11:50:37 Can somebody please test http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2278 for me? Apr 30 11:53:55 freesmartphone.org: 03dos 07framework * rbb58041dad66 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_contacts_fso.py: opimd: SIM_Contacts_FSO: fix unicode handling Apr 30 11:54:18 SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.ca/1408374 Apr 30 11:54:27 SpeedEvil: that's my dmesg o/p Apr 30 11:59:56 SpeedEvil: ? :) Apr 30 12:06:34 SpeedEvil: sorry i got d/c. u got any ideas? Apr 30 12:07:02 SpeedEvil: ok ... now it shows up... Apr 30 12:16:41 SpeedEvil: TADA!!! It works!!! :) Apr 30 12:30:34 :) Apr 30 12:40:31 freesmartphone.org: 03dos 07framework * rd8618a85a12a 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (docs/api_overview.txt pimd_contacts.py): opimd: fix possible ID conflict after deleting contact. Apr 30 13:29:46 XorA: kernel stall is by popular "request" (i.e. lynching was threatened if someone didn't get some of the very basic bugs out first) :-D Much progress is being made now that only selected bugfixes are being worked/accepted. Apr 30 13:30:18 mwester: ah cool Apr 30 13:30:29 mwester: I would have expected someone to choose 2.6.29 as a base though Apr 30 13:30:49 Catch-up can happen once we have a basic baseline with all the parts working at the same time.... but yes, stopping on an -rc was somewhat unfortunate. Apr 30 13:31:01 really messes up the package naming. Apr 30 13:31:16 plus some bugs we've already encountered (ext4 for example). Apr 30 13:31:43 mwester: if the WSOD issue can be fixed then I can see quite bright future for 2.6.29 if we just keep on fixing bugs without trying to do any major rewrites :) Apr 30 13:31:43 ext4 is taking over my machines :-) Apr 30 13:32:14 I fixed the fundamental bugs in OE so I could test that Xorg driver Apr 30 13:32:30 lindi-: and Werner is aware of the outstanding issue with the wifi driver... Apr 30 13:32:50 Its all tantalizingly close to working. Amazing. Apr 30 13:33:32 mwester: odd that I have not hit the wifi issue Apr 30 13:35:20 whats the wifi issue? Apr 30 13:36:02 I didn't think I did either, until I saw the updated trac bug report (moved from SHR to OM) -- my testing procedure side-stepped it. bug #2277 Apr 30 13:36:05 XorA: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/cgi-bin/openmoko-bugs.py?q=wifi Apr 30 13:36:46 thats pretty fundamental :-) Apr 30 13:38:08 The problem for me was that I was still using the ancient "unload the module to reset/power off" technique between tests, and that resets everything nicely... :) Apr 30 13:41:02 mwester: do you have a shell script that reproduces the bug? Apr 30 13:43:50 No shell script necessary; just associate with a WPA AP, then drop the connection (any way you like), and you'll find that iwlist scan no longer works, along with many other operations. Apr 30 13:50:26 does anyone know what the wifi module is called? Apr 30 13:51:37 mwester: lindi@ginger:~$ sudo ifconfig eth0 down Apr 30 13:51:37 [ 8814.565000] INFO: trying to register non-static key. Apr 30 13:51:37 [ 8814.565000] the code is fine but needs lockdep annotation. Apr 30 13:51:37 [ 8814.565000] turning off the locking correctness validator. Apr 30 13:51:49 I can't see eth0 when I do ifconfig anymore.. Ḯ'm thining the wifi module might not be loaded. Apr 30 13:51:54 mwester: ... BUG: spinlock lockup on CPU#0, ifconfig/2257, c7bcce64 Apr 30 13:51:59 mwester: err, are you seeing this? ;) Apr 30 13:53:44 staale: ar6000 Apr 30 13:54:21 XorA: thanks Apr 30 14:00:33 XorA: Are you sure it's called ar6000? I searched /lib/module/`uname -r`/kernel/net for ar6000 but it didn't find anything Apr 30 14:00:51 it is here Apr 30 14:00:59 no idea if random kernels rename it Apr 30 14:01:04 Hmm, strange Apr 30 14:01:26 staale: you probably don't have it as a module? Apr 30 14:01:49 lindi-: Maybe, I'm using the latest stable FSO Apr 30 14:02:02 It might just be compiled into the kernel, I dunno Apr 30 14:02:28 Very strange that the WiFi card doesn't get detected, though.. Apr 30 14:02:52 staale: well check for CONFIG_AR6000_WLAN=m Apr 30 14:04:07 lindi-: Damn, /usr/src is empty.. I'll download the source code Apr 30 14:04:32 staale: that won't help Apr 30 14:04:39 staale: you want the configuration of yout current Apr 30 14:04:44 staale: your current kernel Apr 30 14:05:07 lindi-: Err, right, of course Apr 30 14:05:46 lindi-: Any idea where to look for the kernel config file? Apr 30 14:06:32 /proc/config.gz or something like that. Apr 30 14:07:02 mwester: Alright, thanks :) Apr 30 14:07:06 lindi-: I didn't look at anything beyond confirming that the bug report could be duplicated here. :) Apr 30 14:53:07 Does anyone have recommendations for 2.5" headphones? Apr 30 14:53:24 The metal cap keeps coming off the plastic on the ones I got with the neo Apr 30 14:55:41 wurp2|working: i can say that somehow sound is bad with my Koss the plug 16\Ohm, but is ok with AKG-K55 with 32\Ohm. Apr 30 14:56:29 wurp2|working: Hm, 2.5" what? Apr 30 14:58:10 i am able to ssh to my freerunner. but my freerunner isn't able to get online. any reason? Apr 30 14:58:26 trupheenix1, routing Apr 30 14:59:05 PaulFertser: must be large headphones; much current draw. ;) Apr 30 14:59:43 PaulFertser, hm... will I able hear good sound with my Sennheiser HD555 ? I afraid of they are to big... Apr 30 14:59:53 ahoi Apr 30 15:00:07 mwester: AKG are larger then Koss plugs :) I'm not sure, i haven't done any measurements yet (and i haven't tried to short useless 16\Ohm R's too). Apr 30 15:00:22 max_posedon: Well, first of all you need a bass fix. Apr 30 15:00:28 large phones may use less urrent Apr 30 15:00:38 I susspect noise cancelling headphones won't need a bass fix Apr 30 15:00:42 max_posedon: then it all depends on the sensitivity and resistance. Apr 30 15:00:54 (as they are inherently high impedence) Apr 30 15:01:03 max_posedon: ok Apr 30 15:01:32 applying the sound fix party? 8) Apr 30 15:01:54 PaulFertser, 50ohms ( http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productspecs.asp?transid=newHD-2 ) Apr 30 15:02:27 SpeedEvil: i've read that even very high impedance amp will not help in our case, can't remember the exact reason... Apr 30 15:03:28 Don't see how - if going to bigger caps works. Apr 30 15:03:40 But I haven't looked at the circuitry to justify that Apr 30 15:04:15 max_posedon: i once tried to find out how to find a headphones that fit particular device. I ultimately failed. First, output power of the device doesn't tell much and often other parameters are unknown. Second, everybody measures sensitivity in some non-transparent non-standard way (they even use different units for that)... Apr 30 15:04:23 max_posedon: routing?!? Apr 30 15:04:39 trupheenix1, yep. man route ) Apr 30 15:05:32 PaulFertser, I just thinking about trying connect them to neo, 2.5mm->3.5mm->7mm jacks converters looks funny) Apr 30 15:05:56 or try find some bluetooth receiver that will provide me 3.5mm/7mm jack Apr 30 15:06:27 7mm? Apr 30 15:06:34 SpeedEvil: you'll be surprised to see R4116, R4117 1k that are connected _after_ the caps to the ground... Apr 30 15:06:42 6.25 - metric standard Apr 30 15:06:55 sorry, I don't know exact value) Apr 30 15:07:01 s/7/6.25 ) Apr 30 15:07:05 max_posedon: do you have problems soldering any adapter you might need for that? Apr 30 15:07:32 yep, very ugly hands Apr 30 15:07:36 PaulFertser: I've thought. There was a scheme with 2 small capacitors. Their capacity might be made 2x wiring them in parallel. 8) Apr 30 15:07:39 PaulFertser: yes - that's 30 times lower than 32R phones tho. So if phones have corner freq at 300Hz, a 10K impedence amp will have corner at around 10Hz Apr 30 15:08:11 (assuming output caps fuynctiona s a simple CR lowpass with the resistors in parallel with the phones) Apr 30 15:08:34 SpeedEvil: btw, there're other 33k R in series with every phone channel. And 300Hz is too optimistic iirc. Apr 30 15:09:26 What's the stock cap? Apr 30 15:10:03 SpeedEvil: The line is like that: wolfson output - 1u - 1k to the ground - 33k - headphone to the ground. Apr 30 15:10:20 s/33k/33/ Apr 30 15:10:21 PaulFertser meant: SpeedEvil: The line is like that: wolfson output - 1u - 1k to the ground - 33 - headphone to the ground. Apr 30 15:10:25 max_posedon: u mean i need to see the route on my freerunner? Apr 30 15:11:00 trupheenix1: you need to configure your host to be a good gateway! Apr 30 15:12:57 PaulFertser: ok i followed the ubuntu instructions Apr 30 15:14:01 trupheenix1: you might also like to follow ubuntuforums, a very valuable source of information and troubleshooting advices. Apr 30 15:14:45 1u? wow Apr 30 15:14:48 (similar to "reinstall the system 3 times, that solved all my problems") Apr 30 15:15:20 PaulFertser wurp2|working -- thanks! Apr 30 15:15:58 Q-Master: 1u is nowhere near 100u that is needed. Apr 30 15:16:03 PaulFertser: 10Khz corner? Hmm. I'm sure it sounded lots better Apr 30 15:16:17 * SpeedEvil scribbles on his abacus. Apr 30 15:16:24 SpeedEvil: and yes, 1u in stock :-/ 4.7u in A7. Apr 30 15:16:25 PaulFertser: that's true. Apr 30 15:16:37 ow. Apr 30 15:16:41 In 01 too? Apr 30 15:17:04 because I seem to recall music sounding OK, and that'd be a complete joke Apr 30 15:18:01 PaulFertser: er, mm ;-) Apr 30 15:18:54 maybe I was imagining it. Apr 30 15:19:27 SpeedEvil: 01 had much nicer sounds than 02 Apr 30 15:20:05 PaulFertser, btw, haven't you seen such bluetooth receivers with 3.5mm in Moscow? Apr 30 15:21:09 SpeedEvil: 01 doesn't have 1k to ground it seems. Apr 30 15:21:48 max_posedon: never payed attention. Feel free to find one and contact me to transfer it to you by train conductors or by other means. Apr 30 15:22:39 PaulFertser: the 1k should make no difference at all Apr 30 15:22:45 XorA: BTW, Hi, nice to see you again here! :) Apr 30 15:22:46 PaulFertser: at least with normal phones Apr 30 15:23:20 PaulFertser: I pop in on occasion to see if anything changed Apr 30 15:23:38 max_posedon: jabra bt320s Apr 30 15:23:43 SpeedEvil: yeah, with normal it can't make any difference, but with hi-Z amp they might make things worse, i guess. Apr 30 15:25:05 PaulFertser: I'm pretty sure I've listened to music on the phones on GTA01, and it's not got a 1u in series with the phones. Apr 30 15:25:43 If I'm recalling things right. Apr 30 15:25:57 SpeedEvil: well, what is the cutoff freq if we assume 1u _is_ there? Apr 30 15:26:13 10KHz or so Apr 30 15:26:51 essentially no bass at all, and very little mid-range Apr 30 15:27:07 SpeedEvil: Anyway, i suggest you take a look at the schem when you'll be able to see pdfs :) Apr 30 15:27:11 yeah Apr 30 15:27:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r0e1969a8edff 10/framework/patterns/asyncworker.py: asyncworker: add synchronized version of AsyncWorkerQueue Apr 30 15:27:41 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * reaaecee6ae80 10/framework/resource.py: resource: use SynchronizedAsyncWorker as worker queue Apr 30 15:29:08 * PaulFertser is afraid that trupheenix1 really believed ubuntuforums can be of any help to anybody... Apr 30 15:31:07 Q-Master, thanks, this is smth like I want, except may be 6h... Apr 30 15:31:22 with my "big" headphones 6h may become 3h Apr 30 15:33:15 SpeedEvil: can it be that you had some bass equalization in wolfson? Apr 30 15:34:21 max_posedon: it works playing sound about 4h. I have big headphones too Apr 30 15:34:25 I listen to music on the gta01 with the stock headphones and it sounds fine to me. I'm no audiophile, but I would notice a 10khz cutoff Apr 30 15:34:27 PaulFertser: not really Apr 30 15:34:47 max_posedon: I don't like it, but haven't seen anything better. Apr 30 15:34:55 PaulFertser: it's 3dB/octave roll-off Apr 30 15:35:01 bad... but thanks.. Apr 30 15:36:11 PaulFertser: so at 6 octaves down (200Hz) it'd be some 18dB down. Apr 30 15:36:41 SpeedEvil: well, i understand that it sounds impossible considering the sound was "ok", but... Everybody says it's 1u and only 4.7 in A7. Ask DocScrutinizer if you don't trust me ;) Apr 30 15:37:43 Not saying that - just that 01 did not sound like it had a 1u cap in Apr 30 15:38:01 err Apr 30 15:38:20 diddn't 01 have a seperate headphone amp Apr 30 15:38:28 I would say 01 music sounds better than OK, assuming you're not cpu starving the audio rendering Apr 30 15:38:29 actually ignore this - I need to look at schematics Apr 30 15:38:55 SpeedEvil: LM4857, yes Apr 30 15:39:48 SpeedEvil: LHP, RHP are connected to 1u caps then through the 33Rs to the headphone receptable. Apr 30 15:40:38 I'm not doubting that's what the schematic says. Apr 30 15:41:11 You better do ;) you shouldn't trust my readings of any schem :) Apr 30 15:47:09 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-March/001996.html Apr 30 15:47:39 GTA01 same IIRC, except the 1k maybe Apr 30 15:50:16 GTA01 had LM4853 stereo amp, whereas GTA02 had LM4857 stereo-hs/mono-speaker amp (or maybe it was other way round) Apr 30 15:50:49 i.e swap 57/53 Apr 30 15:51:23 * SpeedEvil wonders if he's dropped some zeros Apr 30 15:52:07 SpeedEvil: as you can see from above posting, -3dB point for infinite Impedance load is 160Hz, with 1k-load it's 320Hz then Apr 30 15:53:16 for GTA01 you might have semi-decent audio with 600Ohm headphones, if you equalize in Wolfson Apr 30 15:54:17 * SpeedEvil finishes washing mouse crap off food :/ Apr 30 15:54:33 (Mice got into jars cupboard, and crapped all over place) Apr 30 15:56:25 SpeedEvil: i think the Old Testament says that one must destroy any vessel that mouse got into. Apr 30 15:56:45 Just got onto - not into. Apr 30 15:57:31 SpeedEvil: for onto it says that you need to place vessel in water till evening, after that it will be considered clean. Apr 30 15:57:42 sealed jars - washed twice with change of water Apr 30 15:58:03 SpeedEvil: ;) Apr 30 15:58:05 Yes - but it also says I can't eat pork. Apr 30 15:58:33 SpeedEvil: sure, i don't see anything wrong with it. Apr 30 15:58:40 This is one of the reasons I'm not a member of one of the abrahamic religions. Apr 30 15:58:44 SpeedEvil: with not eating pork. Apr 30 15:58:50 They might change their mind on the pork thing. Apr 30 15:58:53 nom nom nom. Apr 30 15:59:20 SpeedEvil: btw, for some unknown reason russian orthodox church doesn't consider eating pork to be a sin :( Apr 30 16:01:16 port is good food, orthodox church can't change it) Apr 30 16:01:34 * PaulFertser always wondered why people can eat pork despite the fact that pigs are very smart creatures. Apr 30 16:02:10 Pig can catch me and eat me - fine, I have no problem with thaat. Apr 30 16:02:43 If man couldn't eat anything that's smarter than himself, 99% of mankind would die Apr 30 16:02:53 No, it's by no means a fair competition. You don't try to catch a wild pig do you? Apr 30 16:03:11 PaulFertser: I could. Apr 30 16:03:24 PaulFertser: if there were any around - and I was properly armed Apr 30 16:03:24 DocScrutinizer: :))) you doesn't seem to be very proud of humanity Apr 30 16:03:36 boar-spear isn't quite properly armed Apr 30 16:03:43 Earth's virus infection Apr 30 16:04:13 PaulFertser, May be some day genetics will create some animal, that will be very smart, and will understand that they will be eaten, and will be very lucky with this Apr 30 16:04:37 "The hichhakers guide to the galaxy" describes one such animal) Apr 30 16:04:38 max_posedon: they're called germans. Apr 30 16:04:49 max_posedon: well - at least one of them. Apr 30 16:04:56 SpeedEvil: are you sure you won't consider cruel the way pigs you eat were treated? I suspect that most businessmen will do anything, no matter how immoral, to earn more money. Apr 30 16:05:30 PaulFertser: I do - and I would like to be in a position to afford pork from the better welfare class standards, Apr 30 16:05:44 max_posedon: eating such an animal will harm you, not it... Apr 30 16:06:10 harm me? why?! Apr 30 16:06:13 But - so tasty - cooked right. Apr 30 16:07:50 * DocScrutinizer got his misantropic foul-mood day Apr 30 16:07:52 max_posedon: there was a news story recently about how one sysadmin ate other sysadmin who was happy to be killed and eaten. Judge by yourself. Apr 30 16:09:21 PaulFertser, your know, pork is food, people aren't food(just may be because taste). Apr 30 16:09:23 SpeedEvil: the more i thought about these things, the less attractive pork seemed to me... Apr 30 16:09:46 I understand that I'm animal, and many animals eats others animals, it is ok, and normal. Apr 30 16:09:57 max_posedon: pork is flesh of a pig. And pig is a living animal, not food inherently. Apr 30 16:10:46 max_posedon: it's normal in a competitive environment. Modern society is not a competitive enviroment for other animals :( It's not a competition, it's a massacre. Apr 30 16:11:25 I disagree if speak about pigs Apr 30 16:11:39 why Apr 30 16:11:52 pigs != wild boar, they was "created" for eating Apr 30 16:11:58 max_posedon: speak about dogs then? Or horses? Or sysadmins that want to be eaten? Apr 30 16:12:02 people "create" such animal Apr 30 16:12:34 max_posedon: people "create" other people. Can they eat babies then? Apr 30 16:12:46 horseflesh btw can be find in shops Apr 30 16:13:57 PaulFertser, don't compare birth, and "developing" new animals Apr 30 16:14:04 it just little bit different things Apr 30 16:14:07 SpeedEvil: btw, i'm not a believer, it just seemed funny to me that the old testament has an exact recipe for your problem. Apr 30 16:15:49 max_posedon: different, but it highlights the idea: you don't have an authority to do anything with what you created. Apr 30 16:16:33 PaulFertser: unless you've licensed it appropriately. Apr 30 16:16:44 hm... yep, may be, but I must do it for survive Apr 30 16:16:53 max_posedon: e.g. slaves were "developed" for slavery. I guess some of them didn't see anything wrong with it. Apr 30 16:17:11 SpeedEvil: i'm not talking about laws, i'm talking about ethics. Apr 30 16:17:20 so, If I must, I don't want argue with Nature, and just do it. Apr 30 16:17:49 Belarus may be isn't country where people can think much about ethics. Apr 30 16:18:16 max_posedon: What exactly you must do? Apr 30 16:18:29 I must eat food Apr 30 16:18:43 Is there any way to reboot Neo 1973 without taking the battery out? I don't want to wait several hours the next time my phone has crashed with an exhausted battery :( Apr 30 16:18:44 max_posedon: food!=pork Apr 30 16:19:15 yep, but I should eat meat, and pork one kind of this Apr 30 16:19:33 gonna get me a decent filet steak now :-) those talks made me hungry Apr 30 16:19:40 max_posedon: various studies and real life experience suggest that meat is not mandatory for humans. Apr 30 16:20:34 thrashold: if you can connect via ssh, then shutdown -r now should do the trick. If not and your battery is already flat, well, you have to charge it somehow anyway. Apr 30 16:20:48 Crashed during fsck on boot :) Apr 30 16:20:49 not mandatory, but really recommended Apr 30 16:21:07 maybe it's not mandatory. But recent theories claim it caused rise of man from neanderthaler. Apr 30 16:21:25 Hm, well, I just discovered I'm dumb. Disregard the last question. :) Apr 30 16:22:09 DocScrutinizer: well, i'm already a homo sapiens :) Apr 30 16:22:13 DocScrutinizer, you trust famous "British sciences"? Apr 30 16:22:50 thrashold: then your battery is not flat probably, i don't see a problem in rebooting by replugging it. Apr 30 16:23:51 I'm sreiously starving from bad eating discipline and beef is an excellent source of proteine. So cya, off for dinner :-) Apr 30 16:24:04 max_posedon: i'm not sure it's really recommended. It's just part of many traditional diets, but that doesn't mean much. Apr 30 16:24:10 PaulFertser: No, actually the phone was rebooting after the fsck and it did like 100 times while I was out (which exhausted the battery). I wanted a boot menu to fix it, and I absolutely forgot I can press the AUX after the reboot... Instead, I took the battery out, and it's not booting. (It's exhausted -- boots with another battery). Apr 30 16:24:52 thrashold: ah, i know that hot-plugging batteries can be dangerous on neo1973 :-/ Apr 30 16:26:22 I did like million times when the phone was in a crashed state, didn't have any trouble so far. And the phone is OK, because it boots with another one. Is it possible to actually kill the battery? Apr 30 16:26:54 thrashold: it has enough internal protection afaik, so no. Do you have a voltmeter to test? Apr 30 16:27:59 gta01? Apr 30 16:28:04 DocScrutinizer: yes Apr 30 16:28:51 PaulFertser, I don't trust any diets, and even more Apr 30 16:28:56 make sure charging has STOPPED before swapping bat. Otherwise scream of death -> pcf50606 fries Apr 30 16:29:12 And by "dangerous" you mean that the pins can "touch" something they shouldn't? Apr 30 16:29:12 want kill any parents who disallow their childrens to eat meat Apr 30 16:29:14 max_posedon: "In nutrition, the diet is the sum of food consumed by a person or other organism." Apr 30 16:29:37 thrashold: see last line Apr 30 16:29:41 I see Apr 30 16:30:06 thrashold: no, not pins -- the PMU chip will release its magic smoke. Apr 30 16:30:31 Does it happen instantly? Apr 30 16:30:48 PaulFertser, girls usualy eat ~4 times less food than mans, but it didn't change anything Apr 30 16:30:53 no statistic material to answer this Q Apr 30 16:31:02 ;) not in my experience -- but I only let it do that for as long as it took for me to grab the usb cable and yank it out. Apr 30 16:31:17 and online calc I found says 2.5KHz corner with 1uF and 68R. /me forgot a pie or two. Apr 30 16:31:23 I am reluctant to repeat the experience. Apr 30 16:32:14 SpeedEvil: 1/(2PI R C) Apr 30 16:32:58 And if pcf50606 (or whatever) fries, what stops to work? Charging or everything? Apr 30 16:33:10 everything Apr 30 16:34:38 Because I've experienced the "scream of death" twice. And my phone works, but I suspect that charging is not working (I will be certain in an hour or two). Apr 30 16:35:09 I can certainly boot it with my second battery which is charged. Apr 30 16:35:41 well there's no guarantee it won't just break batchrg Apr 30 16:36:11 max_posedon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism#Health_benefits_and_concerns Apr 30 16:36:42 but you should check PMU 50606 is set up correctly to enable charging at all Apr 30 16:37:35 PaulFertser, sorry I don't trust wikipedia, only doctors Apr 30 16:37:38 Shouldn't it charge at 100 mA when the phone is off? Apr 30 16:37:45 I'm confused Apr 30 16:38:19 max_posedon: yeah trust me, I know what I'm doing ;-D Apr 30 16:38:43 thrashold: that's a complicated topic Apr 30 16:39:30 max_posedon: find some sane scientific article then, i'm ready to discuss it (on another channel where it'll be less OT). Apr 30 16:39:50 depends on state of PMU, and this in turn on previous settings and shutdown and state of backup bat Apr 30 16:40:06 Actually, my question would be: "If my phone doesn't boot with this seemgly empty battery after hour or two, should I buy a Freerunner already, or find someone to charge it once?" Apr 30 16:40:13 (OT) hehe Apr 30 16:40:53 find someone to charge it Apr 30 16:40:53 thrashold: try to remove battery, plug it again and boot into NOR Apr 30 16:41:22 yup, also a good idea Apr 30 16:42:11 PaulFertser, hm... may be, but another day Apr 30 16:42:19 then select power down in nor menu and let it sit for 30min. should boot after that Apr 30 16:42:46 hiciu: It doesn't even try to boot at the moment. Apr 30 16:42:54 but probably thrashold can't boot to nor even Apr 30 16:43:18 gta01 Apr 30 16:43:34 I have a perverted idea. The Nokia phones don't work with the Neo batteries, but can they charge them? Apr 30 16:43:34 thrashold: you should check if it's charging the spare correctly Apr 30 16:44:18 thrashold: nope, if it doesn't work, it won't charge either I guess Apr 30 16:46:17 thrashold: you can charge bat by applying voltage of a 5V 500..700mA nokia charger directly for a few minutes Apr 30 16:46:36 the old ones with barrel connector Apr 30 16:46:49 plus to plus ;-) Apr 30 16:48:12 few minutes is the output of the charger is 5.7. Is that too much? Apr 30 16:48:36 5.7 V Apr 30 16:48:43 it will drop to correct voltage when current is taken Apr 30 16:49:46 Thanks, I'll try that, but I'm now almost certain that the charging of my phone is fried. Apr 30 16:49:57 so it's important it's a nokia charger and it says sth like "550mA" Apr 30 16:50:12 800mA Apr 30 16:50:28 will work as well Apr 30 16:51:26 if bat gets hot, immediately stop the process! Apr 30 16:59:28 that got me to the menu Apr 30 17:00:46 I'm currently in the menu, from the serial console, and it says that fast charging is enabled Apr 30 17:02:05 so check if bat is slowly warming up a little Apr 30 17:02:17 if it does it's charging Apr 30 17:02:51 so far, no. But it didn't with the nokia charger, either. Apr 30 17:03:09 themp going up ~15°C during fastcharge Apr 30 17:03:15 So i'll wait Apr 30 17:03:54 `neo1973 charger status' says `pre' Apr 30 17:04:07 cool Apr 30 17:04:24 What is `pre'? Apr 30 17:04:45 'pre'pare to throw your phone in to a bucket of sand and run for cover Apr 30 17:04:52 that's meaning bat voltage is very low and it started gentle precharge to ramp up voltage to sane level Apr 30 17:05:29 then start fastcharge eventually Apr 30 17:06:11 So i'll just wait and if it doesn't charge I'm getting a freerunner. Thank you for the assistance :) Apr 30 17:06:21 thrashold: you could touch the contacts with a pair of probes and check actual volatge at battery while being charged Apr 30 17:06:47 I don't have a voltmeter :) Apr 30 17:06:59 should slowly ramp up to ~4V Apr 30 17:07:04 :-/ Apr 30 17:07:55 (actually I have, but last week I discovered it is fried, too.... :) ) Apr 30 17:08:57 hehe - probed current of a battery? (instead of voltage) Apr 30 17:11:32 "please get a ampere-meter and check there's no leakage current inside your mains power outlet wallsockets" XD Apr 30 17:11:41 yup :) But it is older than I am, so I guess it was time for it to die :) Apr 30 17:12:55 That's a cool idea, someone will try to connect both poles of the amperemeter to the wall socket directly. :D Apr 30 17:15:07 Nope, the charger is dead. Instead of charging, it exhausted the battery again. Apr 30 17:15:34 "oh, so there actually was magic smoke in your wallsocket? it moved to the ampmeter and choked it" Apr 30 17:16:56 thrashold: please elaborate Apr 30 17:17:20 The phone shut down, and doesn't start again. :) Apr 30 17:17:48 while connected to usb-charger the phone shutdown??? Apr 30 17:17:57 yes Apr 30 17:18:19 so seems your wall socket is really dead :D Apr 30 17:18:37 something of that sort :) Apr 30 17:19:06 first test if the usb-charger is delivering voltage of 5V Apr 30 17:19:31 I'm charging on a PC, not a USB charger :) Apr 30 17:19:43 duh, silly Apr 30 17:22:49 you don't want to worry about what your usb-host is doing if you desperately need to charge bat Apr 30 17:24:23 With gta02 doesn't have this problem with taking the battery out while charing? Apr 30 17:24:36 no Apr 30 17:25:26 And it doesn't turn off when I take the battery out with 500mA available on the USB? Apr 30 17:25:55 now you have a Neo shutting down while hooked up to USB and you don't know is it due to Neo is broken or is it due to your host did silly things Apr 30 17:26:13 nope, it doesn't Apr 30 17:27:20 but IIRC the gsm is unpowered while the battery is out on gta02 Apr 30 17:27:35 as well as on gta01 Apr 30 17:28:13 DocScrutinizer: Yeah, but on gta01, if it's plugged in w/ no battery, no power to gsm is least of your problems Apr 30 17:28:19 gsm is powered directly from bat Apr 30 17:28:39 hmm, why? Apr 30 17:29:01 My idea was to use my future Freerunner as a charger for the 1973 bat, and I just wantered if I could easily swap batteries. Apr 30 17:29:09 well, probably it won't boot Apr 30 17:29:10 I thought the buzzing sound was some part of the charger system going crazy Apr 30 17:29:33 There is a high pitched unpleasant noise if you disconnect battery while gta01 is on usb power Apr 30 17:29:39 thrashold: thats perfectly feasible Apr 30 17:30:09 and I have been informed that the noise is some part of the charger system cycling power on & off rapidly, and that it is likely to fubar your charging system Apr 30 17:30:23 wurp2|working: that's if you disconnect bat, not if you apply usb without bat Apr 30 17:30:42 afaik Apr 30 17:30:48 Ah, I wasn't aware it made any difference Apr 30 17:31:07 wurp2|working: It's what we're discussing actually. My charging system seems to be FUBAR because of the same thing. :) Apr 30 17:31:28 I never have it plugged into usb while no battery regardless of order since I was told it could break my neo :-) Apr 30 17:31:38 i'm not entirely convinced of that yet Apr 30 17:31:41 thrashold: Yeah, I had figured that Apr 30 17:32:03 I have had mine plugged in like that several times, and I always got the noise but never had a breakage Apr 30 17:32:13 wurp2|working: rather sensible. keep this ahbit! Apr 30 17:32:33 But I don't recall if I ever plugged it in with the battery already out Apr 30 17:32:40 i probably have asked this before but are there any test recordings that should be used when evaluating call quality? Apr 30 17:32:55 nope, lindy Apr 30 17:33:07 it should have variable volume and pauses Apr 30 17:33:13 told ya to be your own test generator ;-) Apr 30 17:33:34 Is there an alaw or ulaw hardware compression available from the high level (for arbitrary audio sources) on neo? Apr 30 17:33:44 wurp2|working: afaik not Apr 30 17:33:46 nope Apr 30 17:33:52 k, :-( Apr 30 17:34:14 tho a-law isn't any compression at all afaik Apr 30 17:34:41 itäs plain linear signed 16bit afaik Apr 30 17:34:45 DocScrutinizer: I'm pretty sure I was getting major compression with alaw in my iphone app Apr 30 17:34:51 apologies for using the i-word Apr 30 17:35:06 Let me make sure I'm using alaw, but I sure thought I was Apr 30 17:35:13 don't get it. sorry Apr 30 17:35:35 * mjr guesses you were seeing downsampling/converting savings :] Apr 30 17:35:50 uLaw/aLaw are us/european ISDN data formats Apr 30 17:36:41 one is a little logaritmic to get less distortion Apr 30 17:36:47 and sometimes default to 8kHz 8bit (happens to be ISDN throughput), hence savings Apr 30 17:37:13 hmm, maybe 8bit even, not sure Apr 30 17:37:29 they're certainly 8 bit as used in ISDN Apr 30 17:37:47 yup Apr 30 17:37:50 and in legacy Sun .au files :] Apr 30 17:38:04 (though apparently they have higher options as well) Apr 30 17:38:12 ISDN is 64k, with makes for 8bit@8k Apr 30 17:38:24 mjr: Maybe that's it. The savings looked too big to be only that, but maybe I just looked wrong Apr 30 17:39:11 I don't see what Iphone has to do with that at all Apr 30 17:40:03 also I don't see why you'd need a hw-codec for that on FR Apr 30 17:40:29 sox will happily convert to and fro Apr 30 17:40:52 DocScrutinizer: I wrote an iphone app that uses alaw on the audio before I send it to a server Apr 30 17:41:04 * mjr guesses it has an api for conversions Apr 30 17:41:37 I was gonna use it just for minimizing cpu usage, but if it's just sampling it's too low an impact to care Apr 30 17:47:50 One more question. Is it normal that I heard the scream of death even when I took out a battery that wasn't charging? (Nokia one) Apr 30 17:47:52 uLaw is a non-linear (logaritmic) 8bit streaming format. no problem at all to convert to / from 16bit linear Apr 30 17:48:17 nope, it was charging then Apr 30 17:49:51 I assume blender doesn't work? Apr 30 17:49:51 err Apr 30 17:54:21 where's DAVE? Apr 30 17:57:20 ~seen dave Apr 30 17:57:23 dave was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 14d 16h 16m 8s ago, saying: 'hahaa'. Apr 30 17:58:52 lol Apr 30 18:08:27 ~seen fredrin Apr 30 18:08:29 fredrin is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 9m 37s, last said: 'lol'. Apr 30 18:08:35 hahaa Apr 30 18:09:08 wurp2|working: sox --help: -s/-u/-U/-A/ sample encoding: signed/unsigned/u-law/A-law Apr 30 18:11:25 DocScrutinizer: Thansk Apr 30 18:11:36 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulaw Apr 30 18:11:58 I didn't look at Ulaw, but I did read on a-law Apr 30 18:12:20 It looks as if it's a way of prepping the data for low bitrate sampling so it doesn't sound like shit Apr 30 18:12:37 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-law Apr 30 18:13:01 it's simply non-linear coding Apr 30 18:13:01 That's the one I read, although not via the de host Apr 30 18:15:07 fredrin: we suspect he is dead... Apr 30 18:15:17 It is a non-linear coding which preps the data for low bitrate sampling... Apr 30 18:16:39 wurp2|working: u/a-law has no relation to sampling rate at all Apr 30 18:17:16 it's simply reducing quatisation noise resp distortion Apr 30 18:18:24 so it basically makes your 8bit stream sound like it had 12bit linear Apr 30 18:19:26 Zorkman: why? Apr 30 18:23:00 DocScrutinizer: The wikipedia disagrees with you: "A-law encoding effectively reduces the dynamic range of the signal, thereby increasing the coding efficiency and resulting in a signal-to-distortion ratio that is superior to that obtained by linear encoding for a given number of bits." Apr 30 18:23:28 Assuming the signals are distributed about zero. Apr 30 18:23:36 wurp2|working: no, it doesn't Apr 30 18:24:32 wurp2|working: that's actually confirming my statement Apr 30 18:27:01 wurp2|working: well, low bitrate is correct as well Apr 30 18:27:16 as you get less bits per sample Apr 30 18:27:42 for same quality of audio Apr 30 18:28:45 still a/u-law has no relation to sample rate Apr 30 18:29:30 I can't see how that can be true... if the sample rate is "infinite" then any algorithm applied to the signal before sampling is by definition a loss of quality Apr 30 18:30:06 So it seems that there must be some sample rate range in which alaw/ulaw makes sense, and otherwise not Apr 30 18:30:13 No Apr 30 18:30:19 It improves any sample rate Apr 30 18:30:28 (for some value of improve) Apr 30 18:30:45 it gives you better dynamic range at 8 bits and 8KHz, or 8 bits and 44KHz Apr 30 18:31:13 It trades quantisation noise for some distortion Apr 30 18:31:41 (quantisation noise that you;d otherwise get badly bitten by due to not having enough bits) Apr 30 18:32:59 not even that - it trades somewhat higher distortion an high levels for lower distortion at low levels, ideally equalling the amount of distortion over all dynamic range Apr 30 18:34:07 by introducing kinda 1/2/5 scheme rather than a linear coding Apr 30 18:34:43 Yeah. Apr 30 18:34:46 There are alternatives. Apr 30 18:34:56 * SpeedEvil points at Nicam728 Apr 30 18:35:22 12 bit audio, with a 4 bit 'volume' word every 1ms frame Apr 30 18:35:29 IIRC Apr 30 18:36:39 scoopman had 12bit logaritmic, which gives a distortion better than CD-16bit linear Apr 30 18:36:41 OK, I'm seeing now that it's simply a way of adjusting volume before quantizing, and is independent of bitrate Apr 30 18:37:12 It would be if the quantization resolution was "infinite" that alaw/ulaw would be pure distortion Apr 30 18:37:32 nevertheless it operated at 28kHz samplerate which limited upper freq to 14kHz Apr 30 18:39:16 If you have enough bits, u-law or a-law doesn't matter, as the quantisation noise drops below the system noise floor Apr 30 18:39:32 which gives a pure tone distortion lower better than Apr 30 18:39:39 intermodulation distortion is higher Apr 30 18:39:48 I don't understand why the wiki chart shows -20dB input signal not quite equaling -20dB output signal for no companding... the chart has to be in error Apr 30 18:40:16 No! Wikipedia in error? Apr 30 18:40:20 Inform 4chan! Apr 30 18:41:45 roh: are you aware of the docs.openmoko.org SSL certificate having just expired? Apr 30 18:42:17 SpeedEvil: right, intermodulation is higher. amazing, never considered that :) Apr 30 18:44:16 anyway really time for dinner now Apr 30 18:44:40 cya Apr 30 18:48:39 roh: (ticket filed - i have to go out for a bit) Apr 30 18:55:52 iirc roh is no longer being employed by Openmoko, but they have another admin which will hopefully cares about the ticket Apr 30 18:56:13 mickeyl: That is getting to be a familiar refrain Apr 30 18:56:37 yo Apr 30 18:58:20 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r48eb5af70ee9 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/device.py: ogsmd: do not try to suspend or resume a modem that doesn't exist (read: has never been used before) Apr 30 18:58:23 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r44c30d80af0d 10/framework/resource.py: Apr 30 18:58:23 So, it's just Steve and Sean now? Apr 30 18:58:25 freesmartphone.org: resource: do not enqueue suspend or resume commands, if a resource is disabled Apr 30 18:58:27 freesmartphone.org: this should bring the resource handling back on track Apr 30 18:58:32 nah, there's 20 people left Apr 30 18:59:01 IIRC 3-4 working on telephony to some extent Apr 30 18:59:07 the rest on different projects Apr 30 18:59:11 ok Apr 30 18:59:39 "ok" ;) Apr 30 19:00:47 Yeah, I'm being politically correct, and not commenting or inquiring further. ;-) Apr 30 19:01:04 same here Apr 30 19:01:10 nothing left but disappointment. Apr 30 19:01:21 good way to put it. Apr 30 19:01:23 I had a disappintment once. Apr 30 19:01:29 +o Apr 30 19:02:16 at least I have some open hardware now to demo my ideas. it doesn't look like any of the other current hardware manfuacturers are able to provide that Apr 30 19:03:40 i got my hands on a GTA01 phone and flashed it with latest shr-testing, but can't get wifi going... Apr 30 19:03:53 Well, I just meant "Jim doesn't work there anymore", not so much "no one works there any more" Apr 30 19:04:04 fredrin: GTA01 has no wifi Apr 30 19:04:05 fredrin: might be because GTA01 has no wifi Apr 30 19:04:13 aaaaah Apr 30 19:04:40 fredrin: Also no video acceleration or accelerometers Apr 30 19:05:32 and you probably will encounter difficulties when accessing modem Apr 30 19:05:33 k Apr 30 19:05:45 DocScrutinizer: ? Apr 30 19:05:49 as an advantage gta01 has no video deccellerator either :-) Apr 30 19:05:51 I haven't noticed any Apr 30 19:05:52 that sucks Apr 30 19:06:07 DocScrutinizer: you can't upgrade the modem either? Apr 30 19:06:10 there's areason for different images for gta01 and 02 Apr 30 19:06:19 i know Apr 30 19:06:31 XorA: Yeah, and no gps being fubared by sd card, either Apr 30 19:06:53 wurp2|working: anyone ever finish reverse engineering that sucker though? Apr 30 19:07:03 DocScrutinizer: The SHR image for gta01 still has settings for wifi, so he can have the right image and still think wifi should work Apr 30 19:07:13 XorA: Video acceleration? Apr 30 19:07:15 * saracen wishes opengl was supported Apr 30 19:07:21 wurp2|working: gps Apr 30 19:07:29 XorA: Oh, not afaik Apr 30 19:07:40 But I've been pretty much out of the game for 6 months or more Apr 30 19:07:47 How is it going on the video acceleration side of things? =( Apr 30 19:07:47 wurp2|working: same here Apr 30 19:07:55 wurp2|working: cooler toys to play with Apr 30 19:08:08 saracen: the Xorg driver is running but buggy Apr 30 19:08:19 saracen: afaik same place it was 6 months ago - there is an accelerated mplayer, but I'm not sure it had sound Apr 30 19:08:26 saracen: mem bandwidth is still the problem Apr 30 19:08:39 maybe someone could come up with some insane hacks Apr 30 19:08:46 all gllin reverse engineering processes were dropped when Om announced that 02 has an open chip Apr 30 19:08:50 "open" Apr 30 19:08:52 I thought the problem was that the video acceleration interface was proprietary and hadn't been reverse engineered Apr 30 19:08:58 More interested in some opengl driver =) Apr 30 19:09:07 wurp2|working: NDA signers have the docs Apr 30 19:09:11 Yeah, thats the problems I've hard, the NDA Apr 30 19:09:14 heard* Apr 30 19:09:23 XorA: Yeah, but they're not doing anything with them afaik Apr 30 19:09:35 wurp2|working: well two of them are working on Xorg driver Apr 30 19:09:37 ceasarb was, iirc Apr 30 19:09:40 wurp2|working: after I left it Apr 30 19:09:45 XorA: Oh! That's news to me Apr 30 19:09:59 wurp2|working: only 2 days since last git checkins on Xorg driver Apr 30 19:10:07 wow, very cool Apr 30 19:10:12 for people with FR, not for me ;-) Apr 30 19:10:15 you can tell I spent yesterday fixing OE so I could actually use gta02 Apr 30 19:10:18 I think they should do really, rather than concentrates on other aspects of the phone that the community *can* actually work on. But then again, I'm a hypocrite, without contributed anything to anything. Apr 30 19:10:59 saracen: glamo sucks Apr 30 19:11:14 there will be no decent acceleration Apr 30 19:11:17 Why was it chosen? Apr 30 19:11:25 ~glamo Apr 30 19:11:26 hmm... glamo is http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.openmoko.org+glamo+raster Apr 30 19:11:31 because we didn't knew Apr 30 19:11:37 that it would perform so bad in VGA Apr 30 19:11:47 s/knew/know/ Apr 30 19:11:57 only when the driver has been written things became obvious Apr 30 19:12:04 by that time, silicon existed and no way back Apr 30 19:12:15 Ah =( Apr 30 19:12:27 my question is, why were significant changes (rather than just additions) made to gta01 hardware when it was the prototype, and FR supposed to be the finished product ;-) Apr 30 19:12:34 are they gonna change it when they make a new phone? Apr 30 19:12:37 is the kind of things that happen when software guys need to design hardware because the hardware guys dropped the ball Apr 30 19:12:54 wurp2|working: 01 hardware was broken in various areas Apr 30 19:13:01 and some chips were EOL Apr 30 19:13:06 mickeyl: In the areas that were changed? Apr 30 19:13:07 so there had to be a major redo anyways Apr 30 19:13:14 wurp2|working: yes, of course Apr 30 19:13:22 current leaks Apr 30 19:13:23 gllin Apr 30 19:13:32 bt/wolfson Apr 30 19:14:32 But the big gta02 problems seemed to be related to the sd bus usage and glamo... although I guess changing the gps to one supporting a more open driver was part of that Apr 30 19:16:08 correct. the chip that we thought was the saviour of gfx performance turned out to be the killler Apr 30 19:16:13 in a negative sense Apr 30 19:16:37 and we wanted to add wifi Apr 30 19:16:43 so had to find something with an SDIO port Apr 30 19:16:51 So even if opengl were written for it, the glamo wouldnt be of much use? Apr 30 19:16:56 opengl drivers* Apr 30 19:16:57 correct Apr 30 19:17:04 it's not about the drivers Apr 30 19:17:08 it's about the hardware Apr 30 19:17:21 it's pretty much maxxed out Apr 30 19:17:50 Where do I get my refund? =) Apr 30 19:18:07 ah well Apr 30 19:18:13 you have a unique device Apr 30 19:18:15 some parts suck Apr 30 19:18:17 some parts rock Apr 30 19:18:21 nothing else comes close Apr 30 19:18:35 it definitely brought the movement forward Apr 30 19:18:39 despite all its weaknesses Apr 30 19:18:51 haha :), yeah, I don't regret too much. Just the price I paid for it. =( Apr 30 19:18:59 But oh well Apr 30 19:22:57 I like my gta01 quite a lot, even with all the trouble Apr 30 19:23:25 * XorA must give his gta01 the gta02 treatment now Apr 30 19:23:55 I have a nice music player, usable video player, remote terminal, internet access (although browsing generally sucks), and gps with no monthly fee Apr 30 19:24:27 And on a device that I can stomach owning (not proprietary piece of crap preventing me from doing perfectly reasonable things) Apr 30 19:24:47 right Apr 30 19:25:12 and now that the middleware basically works, i expect much more development in UI sector Apr 30 19:25:16 Oh, and being able to connect a bt keyboard and have a tiny laptop is nice too Apr 30 19:25:49 or it would be nice, if bt kbd would still work on bluez4 Apr 30 19:25:57 Yeah, I was expecting the software to be further along than it is (and didnt consider the hardware problems), but when I think about spending equal money on a phone with similar features that is tied to a monthly contract (iPhone, G1), I'm happy. Apr 30 19:27:05 And then to make myself even happier, I think of the people that purchased this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8289 Apr 30 19:28:10 Could just buy a load of openmokos for asset tracking, and it'd work out cheaper =) Apr 30 19:28:18 freerunners* Apr 30 19:28:19 ;o Apr 30 19:29:21 saracen: wow, no kidding Apr 30 19:29:55 So yeah, will be a good use for when I finally do upgrade my phone =) Apr 30 19:33:24 gah, flashed to latest shr testing on gta02 and can't get usb0 networking going.... Apr 30 19:35:39 depmod -a && ifdown usb0 && ifup usb0 dont work Apr 30 19:35:44 what else should i try? Apr 30 19:36:19 flash new kernel? Apr 30 19:36:27 yes Apr 30 19:36:32 compare uname -a Apr 30 19:36:50 and ls /lib/modules Apr 30 19:36:57 .29-rc3 Apr 30 19:37:37 are you sure that they same? Apr 30 19:37:40 yes Apr 30 19:37:43 hrm Apr 30 19:37:50 I just did the latest shr testing on mine the other night Apr 30 19:37:51 works great Apr 30 19:37:59 gah Apr 30 19:38:33 not sure how they did it, but sound quality on calls is seriously improved Apr 30 19:38:41 like they found a software fix for the buzz issue Apr 30 19:39:35 Isn't it the person on the other end that receives a fair amount of buzz? Apr 30 19:39:38 http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 Apr 30 19:39:53 It is in my case, but I dont know if thats just the freerunner performly badly under a weaker signal than my older mobile phone Apr 30 19:39:53 ndnihil: is that the version you used? Apr 30 19:39:54 saracen: yep, and I called myself, it's much improved Apr 30 19:40:09 fredrin: the 04/22 version Apr 30 19:40:14 yeah Apr 30 19:40:29 openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20090422-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Apr 30 19:40:33 gitr81c61a7d1abb03aecd13f5395aba355e996a1641-r3.4-om-gta02.bin Apr 30 19:40:37 is what I flashed mine with Apr 30 19:40:44 er Apr 30 19:40:51 uImage-2.6.29-oe10+gitr81c61a7d1abb03aecd13f5395aba355e996a1641-r3.4-om-gta02.bin Apr 30 19:42:30 ndnihil: strange Apr 30 19:42:42 fredrin: see http://lists.projects.openmoko.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2009-April/001671.html Apr 30 19:44:13 is the usbN interface coming up on your workstation/laptop? Apr 30 19:47:43 k, got it working by changing usb0 --> eth1 in /etc/network/interfaces :) now ifup eth1 works Apr 30 19:47:47 phew Apr 30 19:48:21 fredrin: On the PC, yes? Apr 30 19:48:28 yes Apr 30 19:48:34 nothing changed on the FR Apr 30 19:48:51 Yeah, that was intentional - it's supposed to make autoconnection work better on most linuxes Apr 30 19:48:58 I guess it didn't work out that way for you ;-) Apr 30 19:49:13 nope, since i had old config and did not know about new config Apr 30 19:49:31 now i know and will reley the info to other people Apr 30 20:01:50 should be documented on the wiki Apr 30 20:10:29 hi guys, i've gotten my new openmoko freerunner today, and now i have my first problems, i want to install openmoko-terminal2 and i get the following errors: Apr 30 20:10:30 * Package libgobject-2.0-0 wants to install file /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 Apr 30 20:10:30 But that file is already provided by package * libglib-2.0-0 Apr 30 20:10:41 anyone know what to do? Apr 30 20:10:50 hmph, is anyone using the andy-tracking 15ca3dafb2662db4 kernel? it seems to not recognize the battery Apr 30 20:11:01 and is vomiting lots of HDQ errors in the logs Apr 30 20:11:04 then spontaneously shutting down Apr 30 20:18:24 selke: what distro are you running? Apr 30 20:18:37 om2008.8 as far as i know Apr 30 20:18:58 I suggest you forget bout OM* and go for SHR (or possible something else) Apr 30 20:20:27 http://shr-project.org/ Apr 30 20:20:35 okay thanks well i try it Apr 30 20:21:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * rde8be494f448 10/src/opimd/frameworkd-glib-opimd-contacts.c: Apr 30 20:21:48 freesmartphone.org: opimd: use the async callback for deleting contacts Apr 30 20:21:48 freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann Apr 30 20:28:56 nah, SHR is the word Apr 30 20:35:41 <|Marco|> yeah.. Apr 30 20:51:31 Failed to download http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/ipk//all/Packages.gz, error 404 Apr 30 20:51:31 :( Apr 30 20:51:35 opkg update is not happy Apr 30 20:52:03 <|Marco|> fredrin: that's been happening in every distro I've tryd Apr 30 20:52:23 <|Marco|> what I've been told is to just /ignore it Apr 30 20:52:37 |Marco|: it cant download the package list Apr 30 20:52:55 <|Marco|> "ipk//al" Apr 30 20:53:09 <|Marco|> try setting it ti ONE slash Apr 30 20:53:53 <|Marco|> s/ti/to Apr 30 20:55:50 |Marco|: did not make a difference Apr 30 20:56:03 <|Marco|> is the package there ? Apr 30 20:56:28 on the shr server? Apr 30 20:56:35 <|Marco|> mm Apr 30 20:56:40 <|Marco|> mhm Apr 30 20:58:11 <|Marco|> aka, can you wget the package ? Apr 30 20:59:41 |Marco|: maybe this is the problem http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing-bad/ <-- Apr 30 21:04:13 how long does it take to flash shr? Apr 30 21:04:35 i took the image from shr-testing-bad is that "bad"?? Apr 30 21:04:51 selke: It is Apr 30 21:05:12 omg it's flashing... Apr 30 21:05:28 Well, you can just flash another image afterwards Apr 30 21:05:35 okay Apr 30 21:06:00 heh we should implement one time flashing :-) Apr 30 21:09:32 freesmartphone.org: 03ptitjes 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r7417ea86f9c9 10/src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala: Apr 30 21:09:32 freesmartphone.org: [#417 - Part 2] Use fso:type to reference string enumerations Apr 30 21:09:32 freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Didier 'Ptitjes Apr 30 21:14:05 <|Marco|> wurp2|working: "bad"? what's up ? Apr 30 21:14:46 There was some issue that may or may not have polluted the build Apr 30 21:14:58 I think mrmoku is checking into it Apr 30 21:15:12 <|Marco|> okiday Apr 30 21:15:54 Unfortunately I think you either have to find someone with the most recent good testing build, or wait. He is looking at it now, though Apr 30 21:16:21 I don't understand why the last build would be gone... or maybe it is there, just under the funny "bad" URL Apr 30 21:16:32 <|Marco|> hehe Apr 30 21:18:22 selke: Which image did you get? Apr 30 21:18:46 Per mrmoku the images Apr 22 or earlier are fine; just the feed is busted for now Apr 30 21:19:00 So I think I was wrong when I told you -bad was bad :-) Apr 30 21:19:33 |Marco|: see what I said to selke Apr 30 21:20:50 its running now :D Apr 30 21:21:00 DID SOME FILES GET REPLACED? Apr 30 21:21:07 ouch Apr 30 21:21:07 i got testing-bad Apr 30 21:21:33 selke: cool Apr 30 21:21:41 yeah :D Apr 30 21:22:12 there still the same date Apr 30 21:22:12 its really cool Apr 30 21:22:26 but i can't find any keyboard in the terminal application Apr 30 21:22:39 selke: Tap the word terminal Apr 30 21:22:44 Then querty Apr 30 21:23:01 ahh thanks :D Apr 30 21:23:02 upper rigght dropdown Apr 30 21:23:07 wow its so nice Apr 30 21:23:09 Then the icon on the upper right of the kbd, and pick terminal Apr 30 21:23:27 'cause the default keyboard sucks IMO Apr 30 21:23:53 pcal numbers are too small Apr 30 21:24:07 pcal? Apr 30 21:24:08 yeah got it :D Apr 30 21:24:11 Oh, the app Apr 30 21:24:14 wow Apr 30 21:25:03 selke: Yeah, lots of cool stuff. Enjoy the initial thrill; you'll find stuff to get frustrated with soon enough :-) Apr 30 21:25:10 still way too slow though Apr 30 21:25:43 But SHR is the best release afaik... unless debian has been updating Apr 30 21:26:04 slaxxer: pcalc buttons too small? I don't really see how they could be bigger Apr 30 21:28:56 the letters an numbers not the buttons Apr 30 21:29:54 us old people need bigger fonts on a calculator Apr 30 21:30:07 Oh, I see. I agre Apr 30 21:30:11 e Apr 30 21:35:17 Anyone here from Cuba? Apr 30 21:40:06 so has the usb networking section been updated Apr 30 21:44:19 is there any standard application to connect to wlan on shr? Apr 30 21:59:40 freesmartphone.org: 03ptitjes 07specs * rf714b36bae1f 10/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: Apr 30 21:59:40 freesmartphone.org: Example of dbus enumeration specification Apr 30 21:59:44 freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Didier 'Ptitjes Apr 30 22:10:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3d98cdb43703 10/framework/resource.py: Apr 30 22:10:49 freesmartphone.org: resource: ran into the same logic error as last time. We can only check the resource status Apr 30 22:10:49 freesmartphone.org: at the time the command is actually being performed. Apr 30 22:16:37 here my first official contribution : a very simple drawing to sumarize audio connector description : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Analog_wired_Headset#Neo_1973, i hope it is right. ( i have been told when i was young that a good picture replace all possible explanations ). Apr 30 22:18:17 i wonder why there are FreeRunner & Neo 1973 since it seems to be same pin order... Apr 30 23:32:47 Is it safe to add the fso-testing feeds to opkg when running shr-testing? May 01 00:46:46 <_sEBAs_> hello! :D May 01 00:46:55 <_sEBAs_> somebody there? May 01 00:47:45 no May 01 00:48:12 I'm certainly not. May 01 00:49:25 <_sEBAs_> i just wanted to ask what OS do you all prefer ? May 01 00:50:04 Linux May 01 00:50:27 debian May 01 00:51:18 <_sEBAs_> ok a think a have to ask what distribution May 01 00:51:28 :) SHR May 01 00:51:39 <_sEBAs_> why ? May 01 00:52:31 <_sEBAs_> it's more stable ? May 01 00:53:02 <_sEBAs_> than the current om version May 01 00:53:03 it has a prayer of actually going somewhere in the future. May 01 00:54:09 <_sEBAs_> do you use on your normal day? May 01 00:55:01 No. May 01 00:55:24 <_sEBAs_> too many bugs? May 01 00:55:44 It has a LOOOOONG way to go before it will match my Treo650 in functionality and more importantly in reliability. And it's not just the software; it's the hardware as well. May 01 00:56:45 Hey, it's a fun hobby phone. Great to learn and experiment with. And I think SHR will be good enough to use for friends and family sorts of things at some point fairly soon. May 01 00:58:24 <_sEBAs_> great! i'm going to experience with the SHR, i already try the current om version and it's has more bugs than the others versions :P May 01 01:00:35 <_sEBAs_> thanks man! :) May 01 02:23:34 mwester: prayer is the word :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 01 02:59:57 2009