**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 04 02:59:58 2009 Jun 04 05:23:13 . Jun 04 06:55:15 <|Ron|> The FR has a nice little empty compartment beside the battery, I like to use that space... What kind of sensors would be fun/handly to put in there (digital compass, temperature, humidity etc.)? Jun 04 06:56:55 get an all in one chip and put in there Jun 04 06:57:13 i'll caution you tho, humidity sensors tend to be a fair penny more than cheap temp sensors Jun 04 06:58:09 not sure you'll get a humidity sensor working inside the case unless you bore through the back of it Jun 04 06:58:11 temp and humidity is fairly useless there - closed compartment next to heating bat Jun 04 06:58:59 maybe just a digital compass chip? Jun 04 06:59:08 <|Ron|> would that be handy? Jun 04 06:59:26 i'm sure for some it would Jun 04 06:59:34 for those who are stationary Jun 04 06:59:50 if you're on the move, your gps data will tell you which direction you're headed Jun 04 07:00:18 not which heading your device is oriented to though Jun 04 07:00:43 it doesn't take a very astute person to calculate the relationship of the two.. Jun 04 07:01:19 still it's a completely different type of info Jun 04 07:02:17 if you say so. if i move north per the gps track, i can figure out that if i'm facing forward, i'm facing north. Jun 04 07:02:45 *YOU*, N_O_T freerunner Jun 04 07:03:07 pretty useless to orient a map on screen Jun 04 07:03:20 * Blu3 holds the freerunner at a 73deg angle in the X plane, 117deg in the Y plane Jun 04 07:03:46 like i said. it'd be handy for those who are stationary Jun 04 07:04:22 <|Ron|> for stationary us... hmmz... ok I'll think about it... Jun 04 07:04:33 if i *point* the FR in the direction i'm traveling, i'm pretty certain it's pointing in the same direction i'm traveling ... and as indicated by gps Jun 04 07:04:39 you like arguing, don't you Jun 04 07:05:09 i'd like a 3d gyro instead of one of the 3d accels Jun 04 07:05:21 seem it's you who doesnt like to see his assumption isn't exactly correct Jun 04 07:05:23 <|Ron|> why so? Jun 04 07:05:43 <|Ron|> Wonka: why so? Jun 04 07:05:56 it's more exact Jun 04 07:06:13 for rotation around any of the 3 axis Jun 04 07:06:48 more sensitive for slow rotational speeds Jun 04 07:06:48 nothing about what i said is an assumption. i don't need to aim the FR in -any- direction. if i follow the GPS due north, i can stuff the damned FR in my backpack, and align the map with the direction my feet are standing Jun 04 07:06:56 rotation around the axis passing through both accels cannot be sensed at all, atm, and the other two axes aren't exact either Jun 04 07:08:01 Blu3: *I* can do things you never would believe. Still *it's a completely different type of info* Jun 04 07:08:34 i have arrived at the precise set of info i wanted, "which direction is north" by different means Jun 04 07:09:09 the means i arrived at the exact same set of information is immaterial Jun 04 07:09:29 "which direction is north" is a null info, you have no related system defined Jun 04 07:10:25 the related system is completely different for FR and for you walking any direction. And yet another situation if you are at a boat or train e.g. Jun 04 07:10:36 i can hold up an apple and call it a fruit and you'll sit there and argue until you're blue in the face that it's organic material and my definition of 'fruit' is an incorrect assumption Jun 04 07:10:47 where you easily might lose sense of your absolute movement Jun 04 07:11:20 bah, get yourself a coffee Jun 04 07:11:23 bye Jun 04 07:11:48 still it would be nice to be able to point the FR and get told where north is, in relation to some defined pointer. Jun 04 07:13:03 for example in geocaching, where you cannot really run around in the wood until you have the luck to get low enough DOP to estimate where north is... Jun 04 07:13:22 atm i'd carry an extra compass for that Jun 04 07:13:43 tell that Blu3, seems he thinks you don't need Jun 04 07:14:03 i never said that, i said the opposite Jun 04 07:14:22 or maybe you are even below par wrt "astute person" Jun 04 07:15:23 you sure like twisting things Jun 04 07:23:25 Wonka: there are a few nice gyro (usually used in cameras for picture stabilization). Not exactly cheap, but really accurate and sensitive Jun 04 07:24:08 I checked them for GTA04 some time ago Jun 04 07:24:41 hi Jun 04 07:24:58 too bad there's no chance for gta04 anytime in the next three years... :/ Jun 04 07:25:06 It's a pitty (and not completely clear why) there's no laser gyros yet, for embedded Jun 04 07:27:16 btw a magnetic compas is rather hard to put to decent operation inside a phone, as there are relatively high currents flowing nearby Jun 04 07:27:38 and metal cans too Jun 04 07:27:57 and - worse - those are never constant, so you could not even calibrate the compass to compensate for it Jun 04 07:30:30 the metal cans could be compensated, if you find a location for the compass component not too close to them Jun 04 07:30:54 vibrator motor even MUUUCH worse ;-) Jun 04 07:30:58 and speakers Jun 04 07:33:46 still all this could taken care of by calibration (which btw has to be done for any decent nautic compass as well) - not so the changing high currents. You need a tricky scheme to read out compass only in mments where you know exactly about amount of currents flowing to display LEDs, GSM etc Jun 04 07:35:35 this might even mean "suspend whole device, just compass stays alive - then read out after resume" Jun 04 07:37:14 as magnetic compass is rather affordable component, we planned to get one in GTA04 nevertheless. If it's of limited use - so what? Jun 04 07:41:21 hi all Jun 04 07:42:27 i am trying to join Daniel Willmann for Aux button fix since his website goes wrong, does anybody know how to contact him ? Jun 04 07:43:15 his site is http://projects.totalueberwachung.de/buzz-mailin/ Jun 04 08:02:57 good morning Jun 04 08:06:15 nullix: sorry I was offline for 20min. Did you find Daniel meanwhile? Jun 04 08:07:12 [2009-06-04 09:44:23] nullix: look for alphaone Jun 04 08:10:27 DocScrutinizer: thanks Jun 04 08:11:19 ah, found a quirk with Neovento Jun 04 08:11:35 put it into suspend, and wake it up a few minutes later Jun 04 08:11:52 the clock on the main page is still on the time at which it went into suspend Jun 04 08:11:57 and will be until you reboot it Jun 04 08:12:09 the actual time on the phone is correct Jun 04 08:12:55 oh wait Jun 04 08:13:01 nevermind Jun 04 08:13:09 I was looking at a clock that's 3 minutes fast Jun 04 08:13:21 neovento is still perfect Jun 04 08:19:44 Rabbit, how is your suspend battery time? Jun 04 08:19:52 time/life Jun 04 08:20:26 * badcloud wants to be a doctor too Jun 04 11:31:05 hi guys... Jun 04 11:31:52 i have regular headphones plugged in neo freerunner, but sound is only from right phone...is possible to switch mono output to both? Jun 04 11:38:28 mihairu: please check wiki for pin assignment of 2.5mm-4pole on FR. Sstandard headphones" won't work without adapter Jun 04 11:38:53 s/Ss/"S/ Jun 04 11:38:54 DocScrutinizer meant: mihairu: please check wiki for pin assignment of 2.5mm-4pole on FR. "Standard headphones" won't work without adapter Jun 04 11:40:52 standard 3pole: left-right-(gnd)-gnd; FR-4pole: mic-left-right-gnd Jun 04 11:43:44 DocScrutinizer: ok thx Jun 04 11:45:16 mihairu: you may get away with retracting plug of "standard hp" by one click Jun 04 11:45:33 of xourse a botch Jun 04 11:46:17 hm, this is might be a reason for bad sound for me. Jun 04 11:46:32 or without adapter I'll don't hear sound at all? Jun 04 11:48:24 max_posedon: the result is you get audio in one channel only Jun 04 11:55:50 wow, /me wants Fiio+E5 Jun 04 11:56:01 small, exactly what I need, ~20h Jun 04 12:04:15 slightly on-topic. Jun 04 12:04:31 Do any of the USB 3G modules support voice through USB? Jun 04 12:05:40 i've been wondering that myself, i don't know enough about phone hardware but my guess is that it might work but i have no real idea Jun 04 12:06:30 I've been thinking about that as well Jun 04 12:06:36 haven't bothered to find out Jun 04 12:06:55 i'm wondering if you could atleast get cell tower strength so we can find your coords with it Jun 04 12:07:07 theoretically could provide usb audio device or digital transfer via a tty Jun 04 12:07:32 * SpeedEvil has a 14k4 modem that does that. Jun 04 12:07:40 voice over serial Jun 04 12:17:08 how do I configure booting om2009 from one sd ext2 partition? Jun 04 12:17:18 rootfs is already populated Jun 04 12:17:21 I'm using qi Jun 04 12:17:51 so, in terms of what to place in the /sd/part_dir/boot dir and such Jun 04 12:17:52 put your kernel in /boot/ i can't remember the required file name, check the wiki Jun 04 12:18:17 Appendgta02 or something, right? Jun 04 12:19:30 /boot/uImage-GTA2.bin i think Jun 04 12:19:59 is there a need to make a symlink of the kernel somewhere? Jun 04 12:21:10 you can make a symlink to that file name but it's up to you, just check the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi#Files Jun 04 12:21:56 so you could just have the one kernel image and have the symlinks so it will boot on a gta1, gta2 or gta3 device Jun 04 12:22:43 the append is for kernel command line arguments if you want to specify them Jun 04 12:24:11 thanks Jun 04 12:29:42 hmmm, qi didn't boot it... Jun 04 12:29:54 http://pastebin.com/m10383afb <--- fdisk -l output Jun 04 12:30:04 om2009 is on last part Jun 04 12:30:25 I tried specifying it using bootator Jun 04 12:33:18 could someone take a peek at it and tell me if it's hopeless booting from the last partition Jun 04 12:33:21 ? Jun 04 12:35:21 it may be hopeless booting from the last partition of 4, works fine off the first or second partition Jun 04 12:36:41 you can still use uboot if all else fails Jun 04 12:37:10 I think I'll just move it to the third Jun 04 12:37:21 I remember reading that qi checks the first three Jun 04 12:37:43 i would have expected that to be enough Jun 04 12:39:59 true Jun 04 12:40:13 probably made a mistake putting h1 on fat+ext2 Jun 04 12:40:33 but then I wouldn't be able to choose which memory to boot from without having to reboot Jun 04 12:41:35 NOR really comes in handy with many sd partitions Jun 04 14:25:51 can someone explain me how to compile omgps? the INSTALL-instructions obviously don't work since there's no configure script... Jun 04 14:26:33 Tanuva: is there an autogen.sh? Jun 04 14:26:50 nope Jun 04 14:28:20 configure.ac and Makefile.am are there, that's somehow all... Jun 04 14:29:23 configure.ac can be turned into a ./configure with autoconf Jun 04 14:29:47 am can be turned into a make file with automake Jun 04 14:31:17 hmm... doesn't look like a streamlined build process :/ Jun 04 14:33:33 it's what most linux applications use they have just run autoconf and automake and included the results in the source Jun 04 14:37:51 dns53: yep that's how you should release software with autofoo Jun 04 14:40:56 Tanuva: if you fetch a developers snapshot you're supposed to be able to run "autoreconf -i" yourself. Jun 04 14:41:48 aaaah! Jun 04 14:41:59 that's what the code was waiting for Jun 04 14:54:36 any channel about FSO help? Jun 04 15:06:35 i have /dev/mtnblock6 and /de/mtnblock7, but mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock7 /mnt doesn't work and gives an error: mount: /dev/mtdblock7: can't read superblock Jun 04 15:06:53 Zorkman_, it's not formatted. Jun 04 15:06:59 is there a way for me to repartition it then? Jun 04 15:07:18 i want to merge the partitions into the original 256MB Jun 04 15:07:22 formatting != partitioning Jun 04 15:07:33 Zorkman_: if you don't know it, probably you shouldn't try it because you'll be unaware of consequencies. Jun 04 15:07:44 i don't need any of the data left on it... Jun 04 15:07:50 (Does a FR have mtdblock7 by default?) Jun 04 15:07:54 how did that happen? Jun 04 15:08:04 I thought 6 was the rootfs. Jun 04 15:08:06 i think it's due to a previousl android installation Jun 04 15:08:10 Oh. Jun 04 15:08:17 Then you need to clean that crap off. Jun 04 15:08:35 and i'm on a windows pc, and he won't recognize the FR when booted into the NOR-menu (i have qi) Jun 04 15:08:46 so i can't reflash the internal nand with dfu-util Jun 04 15:08:53 Android is like wallpaper -- damned difficult to get off, but if you don't get it off the wall completely, you'll be sorry later. Jun 04 15:09:08 i want to clean the nand, and then i'll just untar shr on it Jun 04 15:09:15 but i don't know how to do it when booted from SD Jun 04 15:09:51 Zorkman_, you need to get to the uboot menu to fix it up. Jun 04 15:10:38 in that case ill have to do that at home...; no linux available atm (and i don't understand why it won't recognize my fr when booted into NOR... used to work...) Jun 04 15:13:11 That's a good question - I wonder if the NOR env presents itself with a different USB ID than NAND -- if so, that would be a bug, but very difficult to fix... Jun 04 15:13:34 or rather, easy to fix but difficult to install :-) Jun 04 15:14:33 * mwester thinks the image of the FR on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page needs to change so that one of the animations it cycles through is a cracked broken screen. Jun 04 15:14:45 or perhaps a tombstone. Jun 04 15:17:02 Zorkman_: no, quantity of nand partitions is fully determined by a bootloader. Jun 04 15:17:07 Zorkman_: nothing to do with Android Jun 04 15:21:14 mwester: lol :) Jun 04 15:21:35 PaulFertser: but do you know a way to fix it when booted from SD? Jun 04 15:25:34 Zorkman_: "cat /proc/cmdline" Jun 04 15:26:07 PaulFertser: loglevel=4 console=tty0 console=ttySAC2,115200 init=/sbin/init ro mtdparts=physmap-flash:-(nor);neo1973-nand:0x00040000(qi),0x00040000(depr-ub-env),0x00800000(kernel),0x000a0000(depr),0x00040000(identity-ext2),0x04000000(system),0x0b6a0000(userdata) g_ether.host_addr=00:1F:11:01:08:10 g_ether.dev_addr=00:1F:11:01:08:10 root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 rootdelay=1 loglevel=0 quiet splash Jun 04 15:27:26 Zorkman_: where's your Qi from? Jun 04 15:27:56 PaulFertser: i got it some time ago from a link in the wiki Jun 04 15:28:09 it's been a month or more since i upgraded it Jun 04 15:29:45 Zorkman_: then install Qi from openmoko Jun 04 15:29:55 adn that will help Jun 04 15:29:56 ? Jun 04 15:30:30 Zorkman_: that will change cmdline passed to the kernel. So it will assume NAND is partitioned differently. Jun 04 15:30:41 ok, thanks for your time and help Jun 04 15:32:12 PaulFertser: which do you recommend? from http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/testing, unstable or experimental, or is there no difference? Jun 04 15:32:45 (anyway, i will need acces with dfu-util..) Jun 04 15:34:24 Zorkman_: let me recheck Jun 04 15:35:34 Zorkman_: yes, the latest (from experimental) should work Jun 04 15:36:01 Zorkman_: i can't see where that 7th partition comes from :-/ Jun 04 15:36:21 me neither... but i'm pretty sure it wasn't there before i installed android on it... Jun 04 15:36:49 Zorkman_: means you have some strange android-qi version installed probably. Jun 04 15:36:59 but i just recieved my Fr back from debuzzing, and i had to miss it some weeks, only tested android for about 15min before I sent it with the mail, so i'm not that sure at all Jun 04 15:37:35 Zorkman_: anyway you got some wrong cmdline and it comes from the BL you use. Jun 04 15:38:16 ok, i'll fix it when i'm able to Jun 04 15:41:30 ahoi Jun 04 15:54:51 how to turn on wifi on FSO? Jun 04 15:56:15 walkie: SHR settings Jun 04 15:56:36 walkie: or grab fsoraw from somewhere to request WiFi resource. Jun 04 15:56:59 walkie: or use mdbus to set ousaged WiFi resource policy to "enabled" Jun 04 15:57:42 what is SHR? sorry a little newbie, just found no eth0 and not working ifconfig eth0 up Jun 04 15:58:19 walkie: SHR is a distro that uses FSO reference implementation. Jun 04 15:58:25 walkie: what distro are you using? Jun 04 15:58:43 FSO, milestone 5 i think Jun 04 15:59:15 walkie: you better don't. It's an old image made for FSO testing purposes, nothing more. Jun 04 15:59:28 walkie: either OM2009 or SHR testing is what you probably want. Jun 04 16:00:32 not shure about milestone number, image openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk--20090223-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.bz2 Jun 04 16:02:54 walkie: there's no FSO distro. There were some images for developers purposes. Jun 04 16:03:07 i did try it for openBmap requirement, and found it working good for the fist look except blank screen times Jun 04 16:03:32 and there is wifi surprise now Jun 04 16:09:47 walkie: i guess i've already gave you enough information how to get wifi. And i think you can use SHR testing distro, it is including FSO 5.1 already. Jun 04 16:14:51 shr -unstable is great Jun 04 16:15:09 june 2 Jun 04 16:16:14 slackware64 is out woohoo Jun 04 16:35:06 thanks, PaulFertser, will try SHR Jun 04 16:39:42 ciao a tuuti Jun 04 16:51:07 has anyone tried this under shr? http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=us&lp=fr_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fopenmoko-fr.org%2fwiki%2findex.php%2fImporter_un_carnet_d%2527adresses#Pour_Hackable:1 Jun 04 16:53:50 badcloud, it's impossbole I think Jun 04 16:54:17 hackable:1 and shr exclude each other, speaking about telephone framework/PIM/etc Jun 04 16:57:08 max, thanks Jun 04 17:16:01 I have http://download.navit-project.org/navit/openmoko/svn/ as repository in opkg, everytime navit gets upgraded the process terminates with message "Killed". uninstalling old navit and reinstalling the manually downloaded new one works. what might cause that? Jun 04 17:16:45 Tanuva: dmesg Jun 04 17:17:46 can someone help me? I can't boot om2009 from the third part (ext2) of my sd Jun 04 17:20:42 lindi-: ah. thanks. seems like it went out of memory. Jun 04 17:50:53 love the om2009 interface Jun 04 17:50:58 (boot worked, duh) Jun 04 17:51:15 especially the aux-->profile switch Jun 04 17:51:20 nicely done! Jun 04 17:59:02 i like it too. Jun 04 17:59:21 just trying to get my sound quality good enough that the gf no longer refuses to speak to me on it Jun 04 18:00:28 tim_abell: do you have buzz fix applied? Jun 04 18:00:42 uh, don't think so Jun 04 18:00:57 i've just installed om2009 from scratch Jun 04 18:00:58 tim_abell: then you're out of luck in some conditions anyway. Jun 04 18:01:03 tim_abell: buzz fix is hardware fix Jun 04 18:01:14 is that the capacitor thing Jun 04 18:01:17 tim_abell: yes Jun 04 18:01:49 i'm rather out of my depth with all this Jun 04 18:02:00 tim_abell: are you in Europe? Jun 04 18:02:04 uk Jun 04 18:02:25 berkshire Jun 04 18:02:27 tim_abell: you can send your FR to one distri that does buzz fixing Jun 04 18:03:13 In The Name of God I'll be so thankfull if you guide ; 1-Is openmoko firmware protected and should be hacked like motorola phones to read mpkg files ? Jun 04 18:03:38 dehqan: sure not! Jun 04 18:11:51 There is almost no other phone as open as the openmoko. Jun 04 18:12:00 And that one doesn't really count Jun 04 18:13:45 i'm looking at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WM8753 and the svn link is broken. Jun 04 18:13:45 I've found http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=tree;f=sound/soc/s3c24xx;hb=HEAD but am not sure what to link to Jun 04 18:14:37 dehqan: I replied to your e-mail about that. Jun 04 18:15:01 or shall I just link to that Jun 04 18:15:04 tim_abell: what do you want to find? Jun 04 18:15:18 i was just following my curiosity really Jun 04 18:15:40 was just going to update the svn link to something non-broken Jun 04 18:15:53 wanted to check whether i've found the right thing first Jun 04 18:16:13 don't want to mislead people, and I wouldn't know a kernel driver if it bit me on the arse Jun 04 18:16:31 :) Jun 04 18:17:15 Actually, they don't tend to bite arses. Jun 04 18:17:39 i heard it was full featured :) Jun 04 18:17:47 So it's safe to say that if something _does_ bite one, it was not, in fact, a kernel module at all -- it was just pretending! Jun 04 18:17:56 lol Jun 04 18:18:05 i'll go with the git link then Jun 04 18:18:09 * mwester ponders the evolution of the rattlesnake... Jun 04 18:18:20 seeing as noone screamed at me Jun 04 18:28:32 ummm, where are the apps I installed on om2009? I restarted xserver Jun 04 18:45:00 ummm, (help)? Jun 04 18:46:37 i don't use 2009, but desktop app files are in /usr/share/applications/ for shr Jun 04 18:48:10 they're all there Jun 04 18:48:25 but I can't figure out for the life of me how to reach 'em via x Jun 04 18:48:31 badcloud: change profile to illume-paroli in settings Jun 04 18:48:45 (settings -> press aux long) Jun 04 18:49:08 Thanks alot PaulFertser ,SpeedEvil,Digital_Pioneer ;so openmoko firmware is not protected at all yes ? Jun 04 18:49:21 aaaaaaaah Jun 04 18:49:24 thanks dos1 Jun 04 18:49:38 dehqan: that's the point of openmoko Jun 04 18:49:46 dehqan: with protection it won't make any sense :) Jun 04 18:49:56 s/won't/wouldn't/ Jun 04 18:49:56 dos1 meant: dehqan: with protection it wouldn't make any sense :) Jun 04 18:50:21 ohum ,tanx .. another question Jun 04 18:52:23 for me ,is openmoko only one that has open firmware ? Jun 04 18:53:26 (note that the openmoko phones do have closed firmware on several peripheral chips, but this is unavoidable; the system running on the SoC is fully free, however, on the FreeRunner) Jun 04 18:53:45 and so far it is the only one to claim that Jun 04 18:54:20 android on dev version of g1 is not light years away, but nevertheless not there Jun 04 18:56:00 i can not understand what you mean , see Jun 04 18:56:27 mjr: no, it's not Jun 04 18:56:29 in motorolla phones we need hacking to have reading mpkg files from firmwares ... Jun 04 18:56:37 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8929 Jun 04 18:56:42 now now Jun 04 18:56:46 (but - this is not a comparable phone) Jun 04 18:56:59 how is openmoko firmware ? Jun 04 18:57:11 dehqan, the wifi chip, bluetooth chip, gsm chip etc have proprietary firmware. There are no free options for these. The GNU/Linux system that uses these as peripherals is what is fully free. Jun 04 18:57:40 Openmoko is firmware in the sense that any OS for an embedded system is firmware. The term is fuzzy, yes. Jun 04 18:57:42 There are actually free options for the BT stack - but practically, it's a lot mor emoney. Jun 04 18:58:05 mjr: in fact it'd be nice if we used a wifi chip which is dumber to have softmac running on host probably. Jun 04 18:58:16 SpeedEvil, okay; theoretically interesting Jun 04 18:58:27 PaulFertser, quite likely, yes Jun 04 18:58:29 * SpeedEvil should probably stop nitpicking :) Jun 04 18:58:41 firmware is just software that's intended to stay firmly put in the flash/*rom of the device, but it's still just software that originated from elsewhere :) Jun 04 18:58:45 SpeedEvil, nah, you manage it well Jun 04 18:58:58 It'd be nice if the wifi chip was smart enough to do wake-on-wlan - for example - at low power. Jun 04 18:59:08 SpeedEvil, by the way, how's that project with the aerial photographer? Jun 04 18:59:28 Blu3: there are versions of the CSR bluetooth chips which you can basically program from scratch. Jun 04 18:59:38 nifty Jun 04 18:59:39 mjr: stalled ATM - doing garden. Jun 04 19:00:32 http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ - garden - too much to do. Jun 04 19:00:44 SpeedEvil: (program from scratch CSR) is there some free BT stack for that available? Jun 04 19:02:06 PaulFertser: I was neglecting the slight matter of porting routines from bluez/... and writing your own firmware. Jun 04 19:02:36 As it's a SMOP. :) Jun 04 19:03:31 see in fact i can not understand your argue well , but this is question , in motorolla phones we need hacking , to have reading mpkg files then using applications ,now ,how about openmoko ?is it protected ?or not ? Jun 04 19:03:45 no Jun 04 19:03:49 not at all Jun 04 19:03:50 dehqan: are you a troll? Jun 04 19:03:53 you can simply flash it. Jun 04 19:08:38 PaulFertser: if he was, he wouldn't know I guess Jun 04 19:10:01 Tanuva: no, most people are doing that stuff on purpose. You see, he keeps asking the same question. How does it make sense? Jun 04 19:11:03 thanks alot , is it probable to find neo 1973 ?in europe or asia ? Jun 04 19:11:21 dehqan: only used Jun 04 19:11:28 dehqan, any user-space software (or kernel-space for that matter) that you want to run on the phone's GNU/Linux/ARM system, you can. Jun 04 19:12:03 * mjr trying to make things more clear, he doesn't seem to speak good english Jun 04 19:12:33 tanx 2 all ,,yes my engilish is not so good tanx Jun 04 19:12:42 mjr: but the phone has two ARM systems if you want to nitpick :) Jun 04 19:13:05 freerunner? Jun 04 19:13:12 slaxxer: yep Jun 04 19:14:58 so what is minium price of neo freeruner in world ? Jun 04 19:15:27 dehqan: do you understand that neo1973!=neo freerunner? Jun 04 19:15:50 dehqan: new? Jun 04 19:15:52 I always thought fr was gta02 Jun 04 19:16:12 yes i know paul ... Jun 04 19:16:34 badcloud: true Jun 04 19:16:35 you said just neo 1973 that are used we can find ... Jun 04 19:16:53 so i shoudl find neo freeruner ... Jun 04 19:17:01 21:15 < PaulFertser> dehqan: do you understand that neo1973!=neo freerunner? Jun 04 19:17:08 that negates it then Jun 04 19:17:23 i told yes badcloud .. Jun 04 19:17:26 badcloud: why? Jun 04 19:17:37 dehqan: yes. I think some distributor just offered very good price for freerunners, i don't remember exactly what is it. Jun 04 19:17:49 (Freerunner == GTA02) != 1973 Jun 04 19:18:04 I don't get it Jun 04 19:18:07 0 != 1973 Jun 04 19:18:10 maybe the '!' through me off Jun 04 19:18:12 what is min price in world ? Jun 04 19:18:16 forget it Jun 04 19:18:26 lindi-: :p Jun 04 19:18:40 I think 300 usd Jun 04 19:18:45 can we find neo freeruner 250$ ??? Jun 04 19:18:48 not sure though Jun 04 19:20:21 does anyone esle know the min price ? Jun 04 19:21:00 dehqan: just buy a used freerunner, it'd be cheaper than new anyway. Jun 04 19:21:09 buy a thousand - maybe $200? Jun 04 19:21:45 :D Jun 04 19:22:16 can we trust on a used one paul ? Jun 04 19:22:21 PaulFertser: i did what you suggested, and reflashed qi, but i still have the same problem Jun 04 19:22:36 anyway ...in wiki is written :>The software available on the phone makes it suitable for power users and developers only -- it is not yet ready for the general consumer Jun 04 19:22:39 (only I don't have a /dev/mtdblock7 anymore, so that's good, but i still can't boot it) Jun 04 19:22:42 Zorkman: cat cmdline gives the same crap? Jun 04 19:22:56 dehqan: it's not ready for non power-users, that's true Jun 04 19:22:59 dehqan: yes Jun 04 19:23:21 PaulFertser: root@om-gta02 /dev $ cat /proc/cmdline Jun 04 19:23:21 dehqan: i would buy a used one, yes. I guess i'd trust the seller enough. Jun 04 19:23:21 loglevel=4 console=tty0 console=ttySAC2,115200 init=/sbin/init ro mtdparts=physmap-flash:-(nor);neo1973-nand:0x00040000(qi),0x00040000(depr-ub-env),0x00800000(kernel),0x000a0000(depr),0x00040000(identity-ext2),0x0f6a0000(rootfs) g_ether.dev_addr=00:1F:11:01:08:10 g_ether.host_addr=00:1F:11:01:08:11 root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 rootdelay=1 loglevel=1 quiet splash Jun 04 19:23:29 what are power users ? Jun 04 19:23:32 Zorkman: now it's correct. Jun 04 19:23:39 dehqan: are you into bash scripting? Jun 04 19:23:54 no alot Jun 04 19:23:59 PaulFertser: but when i flash shr to my NAND, and try to boot it, i get the koolu splashscreen and nothing else happens Jun 04 19:24:03 alittle Jun 04 19:24:25 Zorkman: are you sure you don't have some kernel/rootfs on SD? Jun 04 19:24:29 om2009 got stuck on freeing init mem Jun 04 19:24:32 arggggg Jun 04 19:24:45 no blinking cursor Jun 04 19:24:48 just froze Jun 04 19:24:59 dehqan: if you feel comfortable with command line, if you won't complain after lousing some calls etc, FR is a good hacking toy. Jun 04 19:25:05 you mean power user = users know bash ? Jun 04 19:25:20 dehqan: that's a good approximation afaict. Jun 04 19:26:10 PaulFertser: I only have kernel and rootfs on SD from SHR, nothing google related ever touched that SD-card Jun 04 19:26:23 see i'm not programmer or developer ...i just have one phone that is more free than other ,hence what do u advice ? Jun 04 19:26:31 crappety crap crap Jun 04 19:26:45 anyone know how to even *start* to debug this? Jun 04 19:26:50 dehqan: i wouldn't advice buying a freerunner if you don't want to develop something for it. Jun 04 19:27:49 so is in the world phone as free as FR ? Jun 04 19:28:11 Zorkman: so, you have now reflashed via dfu-util Qi, NAND kernel, NAND rootfs and now trying to boot from NAND with your uSD ejected? Jun 04 19:28:18 dehqan: no Jun 04 19:28:59 so if i want just use FR is there any problem ? Jun 04 19:29:00 PaulFertser: no SD is still inserted, but I a) use NOR menu to boot, or b) press AUX during normal (qi) boot to chose the NAND Jun 04 19:29:25 dehqan: yes Jun 04 19:29:34 dehqan: it's _NOT_ usable by ordinary users. Jun 04 19:29:47 why ? Jun 04 19:29:49 dehqan: in that what functionality is there is often buggy Jun 04 19:30:20 Zorkman: do you see anything android when you boot with Qi from NAND? Jun 04 19:30:41 PaulFertser: yes, the koolu splash screen Jun 04 19:30:57 ok om is buggy cannot we use android Jun 04 19:31:02 ? Jun 04 19:32:05 we can use androide instead ,what is your opinion ? Jun 04 19:32:10 Zorkman: i fail to explain that Jun 04 19:32:21 PaulFertser: me too :D Jun 04 19:32:37 why fail ? Jun 04 19:32:43 bad question ? Jun 04 19:33:03 mistake ok Jun 04 19:33:06 dehqan: yep, i can't explain magic Jun 04 19:33:39 paul someone said FR is buggy ... Jun 04 19:34:02 so we use qtopia ? Jun 04 19:34:04 ? Jun 04 19:34:34 dehqan: so we dump qtopia, dump android and go on developing proper stuff (trying to fix hardware bugs during breaks). Jun 04 19:35:14 paul i dont have that time ... Jun 04 19:35:41 dehqan: i'd recommend you to buy a simple nokia dumb cellphone. And some netbook. Jun 04 19:36:00 why ? Jun 04 19:37:03 on pc i use jus debian ... Jun 04 19:37:12 so i know debian ...linux .. Jun 04 19:37:58 i can have a FR with om+andoid +qtopis flashed on ? Jun 04 19:38:23 what is the problem ? Jun 04 19:38:36 dehqan: you'll lose calls because of software bugs. Jun 04 19:38:58 alot or a few .. ? Jun 04 19:39:04 how many percent ? Jun 04 19:39:22 10% calls lose? Jun 04 19:39:27 20% ? Jun 04 19:39:29 50%? Jun 04 19:39:38