**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 27 02:59:56 2009
Jun 27 05:35:02 <PaulFertser> sybren: anything special about your system? Is it the latest shr unstable?
Jun 27 05:35:20 <PaulFertser> sybren: is it only one file or it occures with any?
Jun 27 05:36:29 <PaulFertser> sybren: can you tell me how to reproduce it here?
Jun 27 07:20:08 <social> hmm I wonder
Jun 27 07:21:05 <social> is it mad enough to take moko on trip around the world? which distro would be most stable and least battery consuming while able to run gps from time to time?
Jun 27 08:33:17 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5226 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/INFO: componant info for ht110
Jun 27 08:40:55 <sybren> PaulFertser: it occurred with every file, I'll see how/if I can reproduce it. The problem went away after killing some DSP-hogging process, but can't remember which one
Jun 27 08:54:35 <PaulFertser> sybren: DSP?
Jun 27 08:58:04 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5227 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (io.sch lcm.sch): Bold sheet labels
Jun 27 09:22:39 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5228 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (gta02-core.lib sc32442.lib): move some pins on power module to more logically group function
Jun 27 09:39:40 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5229 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (gta02-core.lib sc32442.lib): further pin moves for position
Jun 27 09:39:46 <PBeck> hi
Jun 27 10:04:41 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5230 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (cpu_power.sch gta02-core.sch): CPU_POWER sheet
Jun 27 10:07:11 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: Hey :) Can you please recommend me some good book, entertaining, easy to understand for a non-native speaker and with examples of good English at the same time? (preferrably the one i can easily download from somewhere)
Jun 27 10:08:48 * SpeedEvil always recommends 'The Art of Electronics'.
Jun 27 10:09:02 <SpeedEvil> Which actually might fit, though can't be downloaded.
Jun 27 10:09:18 <SpeedEvil> well - legally
Jun 27 10:10:17 <SpeedEvil> I can't think off-hand of anything, mainly as I am quite accepting of stylistically poor english.
Jun 27 10:11:39 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i was hoping for some non-technical literature...
Jun 27 10:12:00 <PaulFertser> (legality of downloading books doesn't bother me)
Jun 27 10:13:04 <jonkristian> http://www.crazyontap.com/topic.php?TopicId=49725&Posts=8
Jun 27 10:13:08 <SpeedEvil> My problem is that though I read a lot (probably 5000-6000 books by now), I don't read for 'good english' - so I can't really recommend on that frontt.
Jun 27 10:15:06 <SpeedEvil> And I don't know what you mean by good english anyway - I don't think your english is particularly worse than random english persons.
Jun 27 10:15:33 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5231 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (components/gta02-core.lib components/gta02_power.lib pmu.sch): new power symbol - FLASH_1v8
Jun 27 10:16:46 <SpeedEvil> As to generally good, funny english, Terry Pratchett is always worth a look.
Jun 27 10:18:21 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: just saw a girl in the subway yesterday reading one of his book in english. Must be a sign.
Jun 27 10:19:33 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5232 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (cpu.sch cpu_power.sch): Use FLASH_1v8 where we should.
Jun 27 10:23:10 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5233 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (AUTHORS STATUS): status / authors update
Jun 27 10:23:35 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i'd like to obtain more "gut feeling" for the language. To feel when a particular grammar construct is appropriate and when not, to extend my vocabulary, to be able to use the language to express my thoughts in a funny way when i desire etc. Or just to have a good laugh. Hm, that's an idea, i gotta find a place to download some book by Jerome K. Jerome.
Jun 27 10:24:10 <SpeedEvil> For that, pratchett is good I'd say.
Jun 27 10:24:43 <PaulFertser> Ok, thanks a lot for the advice :)
Jun 27 10:33:14 * PaulFertser seem to be unable to find an easy way of downloading english e-books. For russian there're several well-known libraries with OCR'd books...
Jun 27 10:34:40 <tobii_> i need help. can somebody tell me the null of this function f(x)=-25/840x^3-240/840x^2+445/840x+3180/840
Jun 27 10:34:44 <tobii_> *g*
Jun 27 10:36:28 <SpeedEvil> 0=.... then subtract to move stuff over to the left, then simplify
Jun 27 10:36:43 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5234 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (gta02-core.lib ht110.lib): renumbering of ht110 to allow use of ht210's footprint.
Jun 27 10:39:01 <PaulFertser> tobii_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_function ?
Jun 27 10:39:52 <PaulFertser> tobii_: Cardano method
Jun 27 10:45:58 <PaulFertser> tobii_: i think this is the solution with GNU Octave: http://paste.debian.net/40384/
Jun 27 10:48:03 <PaulFertser> tobii_: Octave \o/
Jun 27 10:48:22 <tobii_> hehe
Jun 27 10:50:22 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rd45545405e59 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_messages_fso.py: opimd: SIM-Messages-FSO: add Source field with value 'SMS'
Jun 27 10:50:29 <tobii_> i can't use it at the test
Jun 27 10:50:31 <tobii_> :(
Jun 27 10:51:24 <PaulFertser> tobii_: can't you make a jabber bot somewhere and connect it to the octave prompt? ;)
Jun 27 10:51:55 <PaulFertser> tobii_: anyway, Cardano's method works too :)
Jun 27 10:58:18 <sybren> PaulFertser: Digital Signal Processor, a.k.a. sound card
Jun 27 10:59:22 <PaulFertser> tobii_: Also read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horner_scheme , comes quite useful in simple cases.
Jun 27 10:59:33 <PaulFertser> sybren: DSP != sound card
Jun 27 10:59:53 <PaulFertser> sybren: it'd be nice if you could reproduce the bug 
Jun 27 11:00:38 <sybren> PaulFertser: I'll reboot and see what happens
Jun 27 11:01:20 <PaulFertser> sybren: s/you/I/ 
Jun 27 11:02:39 <sybren> PaulFertser: I'll see if I can reproduce the bug first, then see if I can let you reproduce it ;-)
Jun 27 11:03:11 <PaulFertser> tobii_: enough maths for today?
Jun 27 11:03:55 <tobii_> PaulFertser: now i try to understand Regular falsi
Jun 27 11:03:57 <tobii_> :/
Jun 27 11:06:29 <PaulFertser> tobii_: do you need to prove some hard stuff about it? 
Jun 27 11:07:23 <PaulFertser> tobii_: like efficiency or computational complexity or that it works if the numbers are rounded (that is, suitable for implementation on digital computers)?
Jun 27 11:08:39 <tobii_> i need it for my mathtest at monday
Jun 27 11:08:40 <tobii_> :(
Jun 27 11:30:17 <sybren> PaulFertser: after a reboot "aplay /usr/share/sounds/GONG.wav" works just fine. After suspend/resume it doesn't. I then get "Playing WAVE 'GONG.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 44100 Hz, Mono
Jun 27 11:30:37 <PaulFertser> tobii_: if you're not that good at maths, probably you're good at guessing. Where's my portable music player? I had the player in my hands a week ago but couldn't find a special cable. Now i have cable but lack the player :-/
Jun 27 11:30:46 <sybren> PaulFertser: followed by "Suspended. Trying resume. Done." and a cursor on the next line - no sound and no shell prompt
Jun 27 11:31:10 <PaulFertser> sybren: ok, i'll try that. Probably not today, gtg soon :-/
Jun 27 11:31:12 <sybren> PaulFertser: and aplay is abortable by ^C
Jun 27 11:32:04 <sybren> PaulFertser: great, thanks. I get audio capabilities back when killing sd_espeak and sd_flite
Jun 27 11:32:40 <PaulFertser> sybren: what's that? I think i don't have anything like that here, so for me it won't be reproducible.
Jun 27 11:33:00 <sybren> PaulFertser: I think I'm experiencing http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1599
Jun 27 11:33:02 <PaulFertser> sybren: navit sound speech daemon or smth?
Jun 27 11:33:26 <sybren> PaulFertser: it came with the navit dependencies
Jun 27 11:36:26 <PaulFertser> sybren: i've no idea what speech dispatcher does and how it affects that. Does it use hardware alsa PCM device or dmix?
Jun 27 11:37:48 <sybren> PaulFertser: no idea - but lsof shows that both processes open /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p and /dev/snd/timer
Jun 27 11:38:29 <PaulFertser> sybren: it doesn't tell me much, unfortunately. Please check what alsa device is used by SD and how that is configurable.
Jun 27 11:38:31 <sybren> PaulFertser: and while they're running "aplay -D plughw:0,0 somefile.wav" gives me "aplay: main:546: audio open error: Device or resource busy"
Jun 27 11:39:40 <PaulFertser> sybren: i think for a good co-existance alsa apps should use dmix virtual device, not plughw:0,0
Jun 27 11:41:11 <sybren> PaulFertser: ok, I'll dive into the config files for SD and see if I can let the modules use dmix instead. Is there anywhere where I should post the diffs when I have a working version?
Jun 27 11:42:16 <PaulFertser> sybren: i think that would be maintainers of navit package. Also i'd posted to the community mailing list along with your experience of using navit (what works, what doesn't, what cards do you use etc).
Jun 27 11:44:16 <sybren> PaulFertser: I'll join their mailing list then.
Jun 27 11:44:41 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r5d6585d76d91 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: mdbus: improve object path conversion
Jun 27 11:56:09 <sybren> PaulFertser: running /etc/init.d/speech-dispatcher stop on suspend and "... start" on resume works as a workaround ;-)
Jun 27 11:56:48 <PaulFertser> sybren: heh, i'm glad you found it :) Probably if you don't use it you can disable it altogether.
Jun 27 11:57:17 <sybren> PaulFertser: well, I would like to use it for navit, at some point
Jun 27 12:00:33 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r43c7db87406f 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_messages_fso.py: opimd: SIM-Messages-FSO: handle message receipts (delivery reports)
Jun 27 12:00:34 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rdc05f6aeb987 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_messages_fso.py: opimd: SIM-Messages-FSO: Nack message when registering failed
Jun 27 12:14:24 <dos1> sybren: navit doesn't need speech-dispatcher...
Jun 27 12:14:30 <dos1> more, by default navit doesn't use speech-dispatcher
Jun 27 12:14:44 <dos1> and speech can work without speech-dispatcher
Jun 27 12:14:50 <dos1> even commented examples in navit config use speech without speech-dispatcher
Jun 27 12:14:51 <sybren> dos1: that's strange - why is it a dependency then?
Jun 27 12:15:16 <dos1> so you can safely remove it
Jun 27 12:15:32 <dos1> (opkg remove -force-depends speech-dispatcher)
Jun 27 12:16:10 <sybren> dos1: do you know what would be the advantage of speech-dispatcher?
Jun 27 12:16:25 <dos1> sybren: dunno. it should be removed.
Jun 27 12:17:02 <dos1> sybren: coexisting few apps which use text to speech?
Jun 27 12:17:17 <dos1> maybe
Jun 27 12:18:06 <dos1> or integrating few voice engines into one interface
Jun 27 12:18:10 <sybren> dos1: at least with speech-dispatcher I can find where to configure which alsa device espeek is going to use ;-)
Jun 27 12:18:36 <dos1> but i don't think we need it on freerunner
Jun 27 12:19:13 <dos1> sybren: with navit i'm using espeak writing to stdout and piping it to aplay - :P
Jun 27 12:19:32 <dos1> which is the fastest i've seen
Jun 27 12:20:09 <dos1> and with aplay you can configure which alsa device to use ;)
Jun 27 12:20:39 <sybren> dos1: what is the fastest you've seen?
Jun 27 12:22:49 <dos1> sybren: the fastest way to use espeak :P
Jun 27 12:23:05 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r2568477541bb 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/subsystem.vala: libfsoframework: canonicalize dbus object name before registering
Jun 27 12:23:08 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r4f2dadf05064 10/fsousaged/TODO: fsousaged: update TODO
Jun 27 12:23:09 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r50db6d2d7bdd 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel26_leds/plugin.vala: 
Jun 27 12:23:09 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: fsodeviced: kernel26_leds: register dbus objects by name, not by incremental counter
Jun 27 12:23:09 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Eventually we will get the incremental counter back, not now though since
Jun 27 12:23:11 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: registering an object under multiple paths does not work w/ dbus-glib atm.
Jun 27 12:25:19 <dos1> (about delays)
Jun 27 12:27:09 <sybren> A completely different question: is it possbile to import VCF files in shm-contacts (running SHM unstable)
Jun 27 12:27:13 <sybren> ?
Jun 27 12:38:54 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: HHGG
Jun 27 12:39:36 <SpeedEvil> No! Don't give him colour scheme ideas!
Jun 27 12:39:59 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Jun 27 12:45:45 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i've already bought a paper version of that, but it's too big and heavy to carry with me :D
Jun 27 12:45:54 <agg1n> where can i get libpurple-protocol-icq 2.5.5 or newer for shr-u?
Jun 27 12:46:30 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: duh, thought you live in Russia, home of the warez-servers
Jun 27 12:47:34 <agg1n> in shr feeds is 2.5.3 which doesnt work
Jun 27 12:47:49 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i do :) But i won't be reading anything from small FR's screen when i have a good properly typeset paper version :)
Jun 27 12:52:15 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r347cd249be9a 10/fsousaged/ (TODO src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala): fsousaged: send org.freesmartphone.Usage.ResourceChanged()
Jun 27 13:03:47 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb2144406c2a4 10/fsousaged/ (6 files in 4 dirs): fsousaged: release as 0.9.0
Jun 27 13:40:03 <xqo> Hi!
Jun 27 13:40:44 <xqo> I am on the latest unstable release of SHR, and i am having trouble using eth0. The device is not found 
Jun 27 13:41:06 <lindi-> xqo: lsmod|grep g_ether?
Jun 27 13:41:29 <lindi-> xqo: ah sorry, eth0 is wlan
Jun 27 13:41:37 <xqo> g_ether 39860 0
Jun 27 13:45:01 <xqo> am i missing something? It's a fresh install, the images were uploaded to http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ on June 24.
Jun 27 13:46:47 <PaulFertser> xqo: shr-unstable build is triggered manually
Jun 27 13:47:13 <PaulFertser> xqo: as to the wlan, you need to request WiFi resource first, then it appears.
Jun 27 13:47:30 <xqo> how do i do that?
Jun 27 13:47:44 <PaulFertser> xqo: since you're using shr, you can use shr settings for that
Jun 27 13:49:33 <xqo> oh, wicked
Jun 27 13:49:34 <xqo> thanks
Jun 27 13:50:01 <PaulFertser> xqo: what's wicked?
Jun 27 13:50:44 <xqo> think of it as "awesome!", "great!", or "nice!"
Jun 27 13:51:08 <xqo> Although the original meaning of the word is "evil" or "bad".
Jun 27 13:51:41 <PaulFertser> Yeah, http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Awicked doesn't suggest anything near the meaning you used ;)
Jun 27 13:52:03 <xqo> :-))
Jun 27 13:52:07 <xqo> oh yes,
Jun 27 13:52:18 <xqo> the Messages-application crashes whenever i try to open it
Jun 27 13:52:29 <PaulFertser> xqo: wait for the sim to get ready first
Jun 27 13:52:45 <xqo> oh yeah, it does say SOS Only..
Jun 27 13:53:04 <xqo> is there some way to try to restart the gsm-connection?
Jun 27 13:53:22 <PaulFertser> xqo: shr settings have a switch to disable/enable gsm afaik
Jun 27 13:53:47 <PaulFertser> xqo: btw, if you don't use the latest GSM firmware, upgrade!
Jun 27 13:54:15 <xqo> How do i check?
Jun 27 13:54:58 <xqo> i have flashed my freerunner to the June 24. kernel and rootfs, also the latest release of Qi. other than that i have done nothing
Jun 27 13:56:51 <PaulFertser> xqo: flash GSM firmware per instructions at OM wiki GSM/Flashing. Until you do that, i'd recommend to not complain about any GSM issues.
Jun 27 14:00:02 <xqo> okidoki, thank you
Jun 27 14:00:13 <xqo> is there any other firmware that should be upgraded aswell as GSM?
Jun 27 14:00:42 <xqo> i have never touched the firmware, so my phone should be pretty much like they are sold
Jun 27 14:01:29 <xqo> what is uSD?
Jun 27 14:02:30 <SpeedEvil> microSD
Jun 27 14:02:44 <SpeedEvil> you can't upgrade any of the other firmware
Jun 27 14:02:46 <PaulFertser> xqo: (other firmware) unfortunately, not. We'd like to see an update of WiFi firmware but it doesn't exist and we don't know a way to flash. And bluetooth chip firmware is in ROM.
Jun 27 14:03:00 <xqo> okay
Jun 27 14:14:34 <xqo> PaulFertser: Do i need to toggle the WiFI Radio on/off every time i boot?
Jun 27 14:24:21 <PaulFertser> xqo: no idea, probably yes. You can ask dos1 to implement a permanent switch if it's not already there.
Jun 27 14:25:36 <PaulFertser> xqo: or just add one mdbus call to your startup script (set resource policy to enabled).
Jun 27 14:26:35 <xqo> <PaulFertser> xqo: or just add one mdbus call to your startup script (set resource policy to enabled).
Jun 27 14:26:59 <xqo> i dont know how to do this, do you know any good links?
Jun 27 14:28:24 <PaulFertser> xqo: just type mdbus -s and you'll get the idea. Also read API documentation at docs.freesmartphone.org
Jun 27 14:29:08 <xqo> okidoki, thank you
Jun 27 14:31:50 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r6ca83f00f8a6 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/Makefile.am: fsoframework: fix EXTRA_DIST
Jun 27 14:31:52 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9c26aa8cb2d9 10/fsodeviced/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fsodeviced: inquire physical path and capabilities for every input node
Jun 27 14:49:10 <xqo> to flash GSM i need a package named task-base-smbfs according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing#uSD-card_Image_.28GTA02_only.29, where can i find this? 
Jun 27 15:30:45 <DocScrutinizer> xqo: why would you think you need that package?
Jun 27 15:30:55 <xqo> the wiki-page says so
Jun 27 15:31:40 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, maybe for the "create uSD without using your desktop PC" part
Jun 27 15:31:56 <DocScrutinizer> is this what you need to do?
Jun 27 15:33:09 <DocScrutinizer> xqo: for standard way (create uSD on your desktop/laptop PC) you don't need any package at all
Jun 27 15:33:20 <xqo_> oh sorry
Jun 27 15:33:33 <xqo_> it says so in the "if you dont have an sd-card reader..."-part
Jun 27 15:33:50 <xqo_> I dont have one, so ill try that method
Jun 27 15:33:55 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly what I expected
Jun 27 15:34:22 <xqo_> i think ive found it
Jun 27 15:34:43 <xqo_> waiting for the file to finish moving to the card from my pc
Jun 27 15:35:07 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, no support for this method here. I recommend to get a usb-uSD reader dongle for your desktop, which is ~4$
Jun 27 15:35:35 <xqo_> but now ive stumbled across another problem
Jun 27 15:36:20 <xqo_> i am trying to install http://www.opkg.org/packages/nethack_3.4.3-10.1-0.4_armv4t.ipk, but whenever i try, opkg holds for a couple of seconds, tells me: Terminated. then quits
Jun 27 15:37:25 <SpeedEvil> add swap
Jun 27 15:37:30 <SpeedEvil> you're possibly out  of RAM
Jun 27 15:37:42 <SpeedEvil> Or I'm not paying attention again, and am making a silly comment
Jun 27 15:38:10 <SpeedEvil> ####@&####
Jun 27 15:38:28 <xqo_> alright ill try that,thanks
Jun 27 15:38:43 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: sounds reasonable ;-)
Jun 27 15:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> has anybody ever tested if those metal-coated (violet transparent) plasticbags used to ESD-package electric components possibly make a nice RF-shielding to "enclose" GSM?
Jun 27 15:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> i.e does a cellphone lose GSM when placed in such a bag?
Jun 27 15:47:59 <DocScrutinizer> of course assuming you tightly close the bag with cellphone inside
Jun 27 15:49:21 <arkarin> can anyone tell me, which is the best distibtuion for running gps (geocaching), i do not have to be able to do some calls, the biggest point for me is to get a working gps at this moment..
Jun 27 15:49:46 <rhaeder> paroli does a good job here :)
Jun 27 15:50:14 <rhaeder> but it is a very solid system and you need to change the profile in Settings->display to the next one
Jun 27 15:50:29 <DocScrutinizer> shr works quite nice for gps as well
Jun 27 15:51:06 <DocScrutinizer> both in shr-settings-gps and with apps like tangogps (tested here)
Jun 27 15:51:42 <arkarin> paroli with om2009 ?
Jun 27 15:51:53 <DocScrutinizer> SHR-unstable comes with tangoGPS preinstalled
Jun 27 15:52:28 <DocScrutinizer> arkarin: so I'd say it works for your usecase "out of the box"
Jun 27 15:52:40 <arkarin> great
Jun 27 15:52:48 <arkarin> so i will first give shr a try :)
Jun 27 15:54:06 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: they don't
Jun 27 15:54:14 <DocScrutinizer> arkarin: very first fix for GPS after installing SHR might take a while, and even might need a second boot and "delete AGPS data" in settings
Jun 27 15:54:15 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: though I haven't tried it.
Jun 27 15:54:48 <DocScrutinizer> arkarin: after that it works like a charm
Jun 27 15:54:53 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: essentially every ntistatic thing has a carefully controlled resistance, so not to make things worse - in the range of hundreds of K to ten M or so per square
Jun 27 15:55:14 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ack
Jun 27 15:55:28 <SpeedEvil> several layers of aluminium foil should work fine
Jun 27 15:56:06 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: not that easy to watch the screen then, though
Jun 27 15:56:38 <SpeedEvil> Place in front of your head, get someone to wrap you and phone in foil.
Jun 27 15:56:58 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 27 16:08:30 <pieterc> hi
Jun 27 16:11:57 <Q-Master> Hi All!
Jun 27 16:18:00 <pieterc> hi
Jun 27 16:27:10 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07framework * r41092c2b0cfd 10/framework/subsystems/otimed/alarm.py: otimed.alarm: Fix a little typo. Clears the timer properly
Jun 27 16:32:34 <CIA-47> openmoko: 03daveb * r5235 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (5 files in 2 dirs): add debug connector, more CPU parts to I/O sheet. Not yet complete.
Jun 27 17:29:06 <PBeck> ahoi
Jun 27 17:33:46 <Blu3> 'lo
Jun 27 17:36:02 <asia> hi. who boring is in room his??
Jun 27 17:36:35 <asia> i have empty room
Jun 27 17:36:47 <asia> but i have a bud xD
Jun 27 17:36:58 <asia> eeeeee
Jun 27 17:37:07 <asia> i want talk with somebody
Jun 27 17:37:16 <asia> because i am in cementary
Jun 27 17:37:26 <asia> elementary
Jun 27 17:37:30 <asia> loo-ol
Jun 27 17:37:43 <asia> why nobody is in room his??
Jun 27 17:38:03 <asia> eeee. somebody is know mean what i??\
Jun 27 17:38:11 <asia> i dont english know
Jun 27 17:38:14 <asia> because
Jun 27 17:38:16 <asia> im poland
Jun 27 17:38:20 <asia> and
Jun 27 17:38:22 <asia> sweden
Jun 27 17:38:27 <asia> and i dont know
Jun 27 17:38:30 <asia> what country
Jun 27 17:38:32 <asia> i am
Jun 27 17:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> asia:  I suggest you shut down computer and find a guy/gal next room to share your bud with
Jun 27 17:39:25 <asia> why??
Jun 27 17:39:32 <asia> im stupid for uyou??
Jun 27 17:39:35 <asia> i have flu
Jun 27 17:39:37 <asia> and
Jun 27 17:39:41 <asia> okey
Jun 27 17:39:44 <asia> i shut
Jun 27 17:39:46 <asia> down
Jun 27 17:39:47 <asia> my 
Jun 27 17:39:49 <asia> but
Jun 27 17:39:52 <asia> no computer
Jun 27 17:39:56 <asia> but okey
Jun 27 17:40:02 <asia> i dont know what i mean
Jun 27 17:40:04 <asia> bye bye
Jun 27 17:40:11 * doc|home stabs himself in the eyes
Jun 27 17:40:11 <asia> i find a friend
Jun 27 17:42:34 <asia> oops, sorry for him. he drunk too much and he found my computer :/ sorry again
Jun 27 17:45:31 <DocScrutinizer> asia: take his cellphone and send a "quit"-SMS to his GF (so he has any) ;-) This way he might learn
Jun 27 17:51:42 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07cornucopia * r5cde6575777c 10/fsotimed/src/ (bin/main.vala plugins/alarm/plugin.vala): Initial implementation of set_alarm and clear_alarm completed
Jun 27 17:53:21 <pieterc> asia: ssh root@friend, rm -rf /
Jun 27 17:57:45 <sabrod> Hello! :)
Jun 27 17:59:28 <pieterc> hi
Jun 27 17:59:46 <sabrod> ( I openned the nokia 3220 accelerometers optional board, there is a led controler, and so much stuff in it... ) 
Jun 27 18:00:08 <SpeedEvil> so?
Jun 27 18:00:16 <SpeedEvil> what are you trying to do?
Jun 27 18:00:19 <sabrod> http://picasaweb.google.com/frederi1/Accelerometer# 
Jun 27 18:00:19 <sabrod> No way I will upgrade my neo1973 with this :( 
Jun 27 18:00:25 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 27 18:00:33 <SpeedEvil> there are I2C accels, which are perfect
Jun 27 18:00:54 <sabrod> Hehe, I was suggested to do, I would never have had te idea!! :)
Jun 27 18:01:02 <SpeedEvil> digikey.com
Jun 27 18:01:12 <SpeedEvil> look for I2C triaxial accellerometers.
Jun 27 18:01:29 <sabrod> Ok... but still a lot too much complicated for my benefits... imo...
Jun 27 18:01:48 <sabrod> Ok, maybe simpler to do ;) 
Jun 27 18:01:53 <SpeedEvil> it's basically a teeny bit of soldering, and some coding.
Jun 27 18:03:49 <sabrod> Hehe... this could be cool! 
Jun 27 18:12:37 <pieterc> anyone knows which app added categories to the illume launcher?
Jun 27 18:16:28 <lindi-> PaulFertser: > ACL data: handle 42 flags 0x01 dlen 1     L2CAP(d): cid 0x0041 len 14 [psm 3]       RFCOMM(d): UIH: cr 0 dlci 2 pf 1 ilen 9 fcs 0x5c credits 2       0000: 41 54 2b 42 54 52 48 3f  0d                       AT+BTRH?.
Jun 27 18:16:39 <lindi-> PaulFertser: any idea which one here is the rfcomm channel number?
Jun 27 18:18:55 <lindi-> PaulFertser: i guess it is 1, sudo test/hstest record a.wav 00:02:76:d0:d6:f9 1 manages to connect
Jun 27 18:19:31 <lindi-> PaulFertser: 'Voice setting: 0x0060 RFCOMM channel connected SCO audio channel connected (handle 45, mtu 64) AT+BRSF=24' however it does not seem to record anything
Jun 27 18:20:14 <pieterc> Just reveived my contract of my student job in my mailbox
Jun 27 18:20:16 <pieterc> in .doc
Jun 27 18:20:20 <pieterc> -kills himself-
Jun 27 18:48:43 <pieterc> HM... I noticed something weired
Jun 27 18:48:59 <pieterc> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/b1c18698e1f14ca237b05ea1cceb4a95.png
Jun 27 18:49:13 <pieterc> the illume bar appears 2 times
Jun 27 18:51:12 <Q-Master> pieterc: is launcher updating now? I have some old version
Jun 27 18:52:02 <pieterc> i got 0.21 i think
Jun 27 18:52:06 <pieterc> so i guess yes
Jun 27 18:54:21 <Q-Master> pieterc: from where?
Jun 27 18:54:32 <pieterc> opkg.org
Jun 27 18:54:44 <pieterc> package 220 i think
Jun 27 18:54:46 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r0b3d3f98ae75 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
Jun 27 18:54:46 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: fsodeviced: kernel_input: Allow skipping individual input objects by product Id substring or by physical Path substring.
Jun 27 18:54:46 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Example1: If you want to skip the accelerometers in the GTA02, add to [fsodevice.kernel_input]:
Jun 27 18:54:46 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: ignore_by_id = lis302
Jun 27 18:54:48 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Example2: If you want to skip all USB input devices, add to [fsodevice.kernel_input]:
Jun 27 18:54:50 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: ignore_by_path = usb
Jun 27 18:55:01 <Q-Master> hm
Jun 27 19:07:01 <Q-Master> pieterc: how do you start it? in shr unstable it says "uncher: error while loading shared libraries: libelementary.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
Jun 27 19:09:05 <pieterc> I use shr-unstable and i remember a problem like that, let me think ;)
Jun 27 19:11:28 <pieterc> http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-f1958
Jun 27 19:11:30 <pieterc> check this topic
Jun 27 19:12:28 <pieterc> I think it's a version problem
Jun 27 19:12:38 <pieterc> or you should link something
Jun 27 19:13:39 <pieterc> ln -s libelementary-ver-svn-02.so.0.5.0 libelementary.so.0
Jun 27 19:13:57 <pieterc> then it should work
Jun 27 19:19:28 <Q-Master> I've made a number of sucha linkd
Jun 27 19:19:31 <Q-Master> -d+s
Jun 27 19:19:43 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r69589203e300 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fsodeviced: kernel_idle: honor 'ignore_by_id' and 'ignore_by_path' as well
Jun 27 19:21:27 <pieterc> does it work now Q-Master ?
Jun 27 19:21:52 <Q-Master> yep, but no icons on the wb
Jun 27 19:22:08 <pieterc> check configure
Jun 27 19:22:13 <pieterc> you should add them manually
Jun 27 19:22:37 <pieterc> or Edit Cat
Jun 27 19:22:49 <pieterc> i found out there is a 0.22 version
Jun 27 19:23:07 <pieterc> http://n2.nabble.com/file/n3034171/launcher_0.22_arm.ipk
Jun 27 19:24:52 <Q-Master> is it possible to scroll through a categories when adding a file to them?
Jun 27 19:25:26 <pieterc> what do you mean?
Jun 27 19:26:11 <Q-Master> just don't really understand how to play with it
Jun 27 19:26:39 <pieterc> you've added some apps to categories?
Jun 27 19:27:28 <Q-Master> trying to
Jun 27 19:27:48 <Q-Master> I have more categories then could be listed on screen
Jun 27 19:28:01 <pieterc> scroll left and right on it
Jun 27 19:28:10 <pieterc> or what ever
Jun 27 19:28:12 <pieterc> but i got to go
Jun 27 19:30:03 <pieterc> bye!
Jun 27 19:47:40 <PaulFertser> lindi-: are you trying recording on FR
Jun 27 19:50:30 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r95262abe2fbb 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: fix syntax error in actions; don't bail out, if opreferences is not existing
Jun 27 19:54:40 <plhardy> Hi
Jun 27 19:55:27 <plhardy> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing is missing one information about usd : this one should be compatiblie with normal boot , mine is 4Gb and works well but i doesn't in that specific case, i had to use another 1Gb
Jun 27 19:56:06 <plhardy> ie it boot only with Qi not with NOR-boot
Jun 27 19:58:20 <lindi-> PaulFertser: yep
Jun 27 20:11:18 <PaulFertser> lindi-: are sure you did the switch in eeprom?
Jun 27 20:15:51 <lindi-> PaulFertser: I added a printf() after the write
Jun 27 20:16:03 <lindi-> PaulFertser: so i'm pretty confident that the line you pasted was executed
Jun 27 20:18:01 <PaulFertser> lindi-: so, does it show SCO: HCI now? have you powercycled the chip?
Jun 27 20:18:37 <lindi-> PaulFertser: ah sorry, i did not powercycle
Jun 27 20:21:37 <lindi-> PaulFertser: can't test now, i'm running a test to see how long the headset battery lasts
Jun 27 20:25:50 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i _like_ your testing experiments
Jun 27 20:26:52 <lindi-> PaulFertser: well I have not figured out a way to ask the headset for the battery charge level so I need to have some sort of way to estimate when it is going to be empty
Jun 27 20:27:06 <lindi-> i think there's a command to ask this over the rfcomm protocol
Jun 27 20:40:53 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: honestly? Never seen that
Jun 27 20:42:23 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i'm just guessing since I saw the text batchg
Jun 27 20:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> yo, sounds promising
Jun 27 22:00:44 <beniwtv> hmm... I haven't heard anything in a long time wrt the ReMoko application. Anyone knows if it's working on OM2009?
Jun 27 22:12:59 <arkarin> I've just installed shr-unstable can anyone tell me how to start using gps now?
Jun 27 22:15:36 <sybren> arkarin: I installed Navit and some maps from OpenStreetMap
Jun 27 22:16:08 <arkarin> and you did not had to configure anything ?
Jun 27 22:16:14 <sybren> heh yeah I did
Jun 27 22:16:36 <sybren> 'mkdir ~/.navit; cp /usr/share/navit/navit.xml ~/.navit', then edit ~/.navit/navit.xml
Jun 27 22:16:54 <sybren> at least you have to store some maps, and let Navit know where you stored them
Jun 27 22:17:47 <arkarin> ok, but no gps configuration ?
Jun 27 22:18:26 <sybren> nope. you can configure a GPS source per vehicle type, but the default just works out of the box. With the GPS daemon in SHR unstable you don't even have to turn the GPS on/off, it happens automagically
Jun 27 22:18:52 <sybren> there is a bug, though, in one of the navit dependencies. If you do "opkg remove -force-depends speech-dispatcher" it's solved.
Jun 27 22:19:31 <arkarin> great ! thanks for this help
Jun 27 22:20:22 <sybren> you're welcome - I'm writing a bug report for Navit about speech-dispatcher as we speak
Jun 27 22:22:58 <sybren> arkarin: http://trac.navit-project.org/ticket/393 ;-)
Jun 27 22:29:11 <DocScrutinizer> arkarin: it's highly annoying I tried two times to answer your PM-query wrt GPS, and always you logged out immediately after posting your request for help
Jun 27 22:30:59 <SpeedEvil> memoserv! (in theory)
Jun 27 22:32:19 <arkarin> DocScrutinizer: oh I am so sry about this, of course it wasn't my wish to do so but I had to shut down my pc... So I realy like to thank you for your effort to help me !
Jun 27 22:38:55 <DocScrutinizer> arkarin: well, finally a low-effort c&p repost did it. HTH ;-)
Jun 27 22:44:04 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: maybe you want to add to your ticket #393: "ESD and OSS strongly deprecated (at least on FR). Using alsa audio devices, or (deprecated) use aoss wrapper for OSS-style /dev/dsp audio is madatory"output
Jun 27 22:45:16 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: maybe you want to add to your ticket #393: "ESD and OSS strongly deprecated (at least on FR). Using alsa audio devices, or (deprecated) use aoss wrapper for OSS-style /dev/dsp audio output is madatory"
Jun 27 22:45:38 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, no idea how prev line got messed up :-/
Jun 27 22:51:26 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: no worries, people have done worse things to me than repeating a friendly suggestion ;-)
Jun 27 22:52:48 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: do you have a URL? There are so many tockets #393 in the world
Jun 27 22:53:40 <DocScrutinizer> [2009-06-28 00:20:22] <sybren> you're welcome - I'm writing a bug report for Navit about speech-dispatcher as we speak
Jun 27 22:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> [2009-06-28 00:22:58] <sybren> arkarin: http://trac.navit-project.org/ticket/393 ;-)
Jun 27 22:53:43 <DocScrutinizer> [
Jun 27 22:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: so I understod it's been "your" ticket, no?
Jun 27 22:57:00 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: yup
Jun 27 22:57:53 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: the problem is (AFAIK) navit is using speech-dispatcher (ESD, enlightenment sound daemon) which in turn uses /dev/dsp and never even closes it. Thus all audio on FR is blocked as /dev/dsp exclusively allocates the D/A-converter
Jun 27 22:59:59 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: ALSA recommended way to handle this kind of sharing audio-resource is by dmix-plugin. Dmix does almost same thing speech-dispatcher/ESD is supposed to do, though in a way conforming to a ALSA based system
Jun 27 23:00:00 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: I don't know about /dev/dsp, but the processes I wrote about have /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p  and /dev/snd/timer open
Jun 27 23:00:20 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: I've reconfigured speech-dispatcher to use plug:dmix, but to no avail
Jun 27 23:00:34 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p is ALSA aequivalent to /dev/dsp
Jun 27 23:01:45 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: plug:dmix should work, though you actually could use "default" as it's mapped to dmix on FR
Jun 27 23:02:08 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: it works for playing audio, but using it doesn't solve this bug
Jun 27 23:02:19 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: anyway your approach is correct. If it doesn't work, we need to tweak it a little ;-)
Jun 27 23:02:42 <sybren> if it doesn't work, it needs fixing :)
Jun 27 23:03:02 <sybren> I've just uninstalled speech-dispatcher by force, and used espeak directly. Works like a charm
Jun 27 23:03:07 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: maybe the /dev/snd/timer is the problem then
Jun 27 23:04:38 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: (just uninstalled...) It might have problems only to show up if e.g a ringtone tries to start while navit is concurently outputing sth to audio device
Jun 27 23:05:25 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: I've used a small shell script that lets espeak output to stdout, then aplay to play its stdin to plug:dmix
Jun 27 23:05:35 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: that should work properly, right?
Jun 27 23:06:13 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: and omitting "-D plug:dmix" for aplay doesn't work?
Jun 27 23:06:47 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: it does, but when writing the script I didn't know that dmix was the default anyway ;-)
Jun 27 23:07:37 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: anyway you know a lot more about nature of the bug and how to correctly fix it, than you wrote on #393 ;-D
Jun 27 23:08:01 <sybren> I do?
Jun 27 23:08:21 <sybren> well, I did add some details to a comment
Jun 27 23:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> sure, pipe to aplay is the correct fix to this issue
Jun 27 23:08:55 <sybren> I tried configuring the pipe in the navit.xml file, but that crashed Navit :(
Jun 27 23:09:18 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: I dunno nuttin about navit. sorry
Jun 27 23:09:19 <sybren> I haven't tried yet with output on a terminal though, so I wouldn't know the error message
Jun 27 23:09:39 <sybren> perhaps I'll post another ticket about that then
Jun 27 23:10:30 <DocScrutinizer> And I should add another small remark about recommended way to do audio, to the wiki
Jun 27 23:10:38 <sybren> ;-)
Jun 27 23:16:59 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: the pipe now works, I made the mistake of inserting "%s" twice in the command line ("%s" is replaced by the text to say)
Jun 27 23:17:21 <DocScrutinizer> aah. fine then
Jun 27 23:18:05 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: do you know anything about shr-contacts?
Jun 27 23:18:42 <DocScrutinizer> very few
Jun 27 23:18:48 <sybren> I'm looking for a way to import my contact list, preferrably by importing a VCF file
Jun 27 23:19:33 <SeligArk1n> Into what front-end. ;)
Jun 27 23:19:49 <SeligArk1n> There is a patch for zhone if I recall correctly
Jun 27 23:19:55 <DocScrutinizer> there's no VCF support recently, despite all my nagging (dos1 always says "doc, write a backend!" ;-P )
Jun 27 23:20:39 <sybren> SeligArk1n: any contact frontend that's usable - as long as I can select a name to call/SMS, and see the name of who's calling/called, I'm happy
Jun 27 23:21:01 <SeligArk1n> I decided I will just write my own front-end, it'll probably never be done. >.>
Jun 27 23:21:04 <DocScrutinizer> anyway opimd has a csv-backend, and it should be rather simple to write a VCF->csv converter script
Jun 27 23:21:13 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: there are options for SIM or sqlite backends for the contacts in SHM - I was hoping that I could import my contact list into that
Jun 27 23:21:24 <sybren> preferrably sqlite
Jun 27 23:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: there's csv backend as well. so you should be able to somehow transfer csv-contacts to sql-backend
Jun 27 23:22:41 <DocScrutinizer> SeligArk1n: Hi, long time no see :)
Jun 27 23:22:43 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: do you know how? Or where to find the files those backends store their data into?
Jun 27 23:22:56 <SeligArk1n> hey doc, been off exploring other areas of the internet
Jun 27 23:23:22 <DocScrutinizer> sybren: I suggest to /join #openmoko-cdevel and ask dos1
Jun 27 23:23:32 <sybren> fair enough, will do
Jun 27 23:23:58 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: if he were online ;-)
Jun 27 23:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, maybe later on. Though there might be others around savvy to answer your questions
Jun 28 02:14:17 <raster> DocScrutinizer: 
Jun 28 02:14:24 <raster> 12:13PM ~ > esd -h
Jun 28 02:14:26 <raster> ...
Jun 28 02:14:35 <raster>   -r RATE       run server at sample rate of RATE
Jun 28 02:14:35 <raster>   -as SECS      free audio device after SECS of inactivity
Jun 28 02:14:35 <raster>   -unix         use unix domain sockets instead of tcp/ip
Jun 28 02:14:47 <raster> somone is just not using the options properly
Jun 28 02:20:36 <DocScrutinizer> raster: errr?
Jun 28 02:30:23 <raster> <DocScrutinizer> sybren: the problem is (AFAIK) navit is using speech-dispatcher (ESD, enlightenment sound daemon) which in turn uses /dev/dsp and never even closes it. Thus all audio on FR is blocked as /dev/dsp exclusively allocates the D/A-converter
Jun 28 02:31:04 <DocScrutinizer> raster: no idea if someone is using wrong parameters somewhere. It's just mandatory every app uses either decent alsa audio devices (including dmix somewhere in the path) directly, or if the app is _so_ obsolete wrt audio that it knows only about /dev/pcm (etc) then it MUST use aoss wrapper to map this to a alsa device again
Jun 28 02:32:00 <raster> sure - dmix helps. in fact dmix means /dev/dsp can be opened multiple times
Jun 28 02:32:08 <raster> and used by multiple apps - if u have oss emulation
Jun 28 02:32:11 <DocScrutinizer> nope, wrong
Jun 28 02:33:30 <DocScrutinizer> aiui you may map /dev/dsp to a alsa path (like aoss does), but still it isn't sharable
Jun 28 02:34:07 <raster> i've had several apps using /dev/dsp
Jun 28 02:34:09 <raster> at once
Jun 28 02:34:25 <DocScrutinizer> even *if* it is, it's a simple fact OSS emu is deprecated for years now
Jun 28 02:35:23 <DocScrutinizer> and you can handle this correctly via aoss.
Jun 28 02:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> the bug report seems to prove it's blocking all other audio apps though if one app opens /dev/dsp
Jun 28 02:36:23 <mjr> (last I checked dmix quite spesifically didn't mean /dev/dsp being shareable, aoss is another can of worms of course since it maps it to alsa in userspace)
Jun 28 02:36:49 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Jun 28 02:37:22 <mjr> basically the alsa people are a bunch of wankers who didn't want to put mixing in the kernel _or_ make a non-broken oss emulation layer
Jun 28 02:37:24 <raster> and esd doesnt keep /dev/dsp open - if you allow it to free it when not used. the point was that it was written in the days when /dev/dsp was all u had (or /dev/audio - the sun one) and if u were playing music - nothing else could make sound. esd made that easy by providing a socket that worked almost like /dev/dsp, a ld_preload that could catch dsp opens and it kept dsp to avoid non--friendly apps from stealing it. if u didnt mind that 
Jun 28 02:37:24 <raster> possibility - you could have it release
Jun 28 02:37:38 <mjr> and thus we have battles with dsp-using apps
Jun 28 02:37:49 <raster> mjr:  actually the kernel devs didnt want mixing in the kernel
Jun 28 02:37:53 <raster> and they have a point
Jun 28 02:38:06 <raster> as within the kernel, scheduling is co-operative
Jun 28 02:38:14 <raster> and as long as  are mixing - u are hogging the cpu
Jun 28 02:38:45 <mjr> okay, fair enough, but the oss emulation layer should wrap back through userspace then per default
Jun 28 02:38:52 <raster> yes
Jun 28 02:39:00 <raster> correct
Jun 28 02:39:42 <DocScrutinizer> raster: freeing /dev/dsp is a botch and a nonsense. It's no replacement for multiplexing
Jun 28 02:39:54 <DocScrutinizer> or mixing
Jun 28 02:40:07 <raster> esd already multiplexes and mixes
Jun 28 02:40:10 <raster> that was the whole point
Jun 28 02:40:27 <DocScrutinizer> yup, as does alsa
Jun 28 02:42:13 <DocScrutinizer> and I really don't want to see alsa aware apps using a adapter to ESD so ESD can do the mixing and then needs to use alsa anyway for output, as afaik there are no ESD soundcard drivers and thus we have a alsa-based system inevitably
Jun 28 02:42:44 <raster> but navit isnt alsa-aware
Jun 28 02:42:50 <raster> otherwise it wouldnt use esd
Jun 28 02:42:58 <DocScrutinizer> so use aoss for it
Jun 28 02:43:09 <raster> but it isnt aware
Jun 28 02:43:13 <raster> so it doesnt
Jun 28 02:43:57 <DocScrutinizer> or just pipe audostream to aplay like sybren suggested
Jun 28 02:44:27 <raster> or add "-as 1" to the exec line of esd
Jun 28 02:44:39 <raster> which is the simplest thing to do
Jun 28 02:44:52 <raster> and it will behave like any /dev/dsp using app
Jun 28 02:45:13 <DocScrutinizer> won't help as /dev/dsp will vanish shortly, and it doesn't do mixing evidentally
Jun 28 02:45:23 <raster> or fix alsa on om's kernel to also dmix /dev/dsp
Jun 28 02:45:27 <raster> ad dynamically allocate a channel
Jun 28 02:45:39 <raster> i suspect i have used patched kernels before that do that
Jun 28 02:45:41 <DocScrutinizer> /dev/dsp using apps are deprecated for FR
Jun 28 02:45:50 <raster> then stop using navit
Jun 28 02:45:54 <raster> its deprecated
Jun 28 02:45:55 <raster> :)
Jun 28 02:46:11 <mjr> (hell, they're deprecated for linux period, doesn't seem to mean they're going away...)
Jun 28 02:46:19 <raster> correct
Jun 28 02:46:26 * SpeedEvil wishes sound on linux diddn't suck.
Jun 28 02:46:31 <raster> how you treat deprecated is the issue
Jun 28 02:46:42 <raster> if u treat it as "no longer able to be used at all"
Jun 28 02:46:45 <SpeedEvil> A nice replacement for /dev/dsp that just worked, and had auto-mixing.
Jun 28 02:46:50 <raster> then u can remove navit
Jun 28 02:46:59 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you got a free performance on the reasons why it does
Jun 28 02:47:14 <raster> SpeedEvil: what sound needed is an audo-system - like x, but for sound
Jun 28 02:47:14 <SpeedEvil> ?
Jun 28 02:47:25 <raster> the problem is that has existed ever since called "nas"
Jun 28 02:47:30 <SuN> Never mind the latency :D
Jun 28 02:47:30 * SpeedEvil remembers one in 1996?
Jun 28 02:47:33 <raster> but no one wanted to use it
Jun 28 02:48:07 <raster> SuN:  latency is a factor of the size of your mixing buffer
Jun 28 02:48:10 <SpeedEvil> And yes, auto-mixing isn't really simple.
Jun 28 02:48:26 <raster> andf that in turn is driven by kernel scheduling latencies
Jun 28 02:48:47 <raster> ie buffer needs to be long enough to cover most (if not all) scheduling latencies
Jun 28 02:48:55 <raster> to skip "blips"
Jun 28 02:49:00 <SpeedEvil> and userspace schedduling issues
Jun 28 02:49:34 <SuN> But short enough to not introduce a too long delay, in case of low-latency applications.
Jun 28 02:49:38 <SpeedEvil> however - I'd be happy with something that just worked with one application playing at once.
Jun 28 02:49:55 <raster> http://www.radscan.com/nas.html
Jun 28 02:49:56 <SpeedEvil> Even if a second application playing sound at once would occasionally skip.
Jun 28 02:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> (buffer) that's why you are better off with a decent device than with a /dev/dsp 
Jun 28 02:50:13 <raster> SuN: bingo
Jun 28 02:50:37 <raster> but as scheduling latencies pretty much are the deciding factor - have it shorter than that and u'll get blips sometimes or often
Jun 28 02:50:57 <raster> SpeedEvil:  thats why u need a manager
Jun 28 02:51:05 <raster> it can decide to mix, or block
Jun 28 02:51:08 <SpeedEvil> There is no reason for one buffer latency
Jun 28 02:51:13 <raster> or mix and vary volume of existing streams
Jun 28 02:51:28 <raster> (eg ha,lve volume of existing music and play ring sound at full volume)
Jun 28 02:51:29 <raster> etc.
Jun 28 02:51:37 <raster> the problem is scheduling
Jun 28 02:51:49 <raster> that actually got fixed a while ago with realtime scheduling
Jun 28 02:52:01 <raster> at least to an extent
Jun 28 02:52:04 <SuN> Which introduced all sorts of other issues :D
Jun 28 02:52:09 <SpeedEvil> then you've got the rt/power thin
Jun 28 02:52:10 <SpeedEvil> g
Jun 28 02:52:19 <DocScrutinizer> raster: all that is already there in ALSA. 
Jun 28 02:52:33 <DocScrutinizer> and /me off now
Jun 28 02:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> as this discussion lingers on for 4 years now
Jun 28 02:53:07 <raster> DocScrutinizer: not the abstract logic of being able to prioritise streams, have variable policies on what happens if priority 5 is playing then priority 3 wants to play
Jun 28 02:53:07 <DocScrutinizer> really tedious
Jun 28 02:53:09 <raster> or priority 1
Jun 28 02:53:12 <raster> etc.
Jun 28 02:53:13 <SuN> Alsa isn't very intelligent when it comes to mixed hardware/software mix situations, though.
Jun 28 02:53:43 <DocScrutinizer> raster: that's what I'm about to implement
Jun 28 02:53:49 <DocScrutinizer> bye
Jun 28 02:54:01 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer will save us!
Jun 28 02:54:03 <raster> aha! - as i said. doesnt exist :)
Jun 28 02:54:20 <raster> (and once you implement it.. it will)
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