**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 29 02:59:57 2009
Jul 29 03:41:27 <Undrwater> has anyone tried the 7/28 SHR(U)?
Jul 29 03:56:13 <Slaxxer> well how is it?
Jul 29 03:56:39 <Slaxxer> my replacement screen is comming
Jul 29 03:59:41 <Undrwater> oh...ophonekit didn't start for me...none of the settings responded
Jul 29 03:59:50 <Undrwater> usb networking didn't start either
Jul 29 04:00:06 <Undrwater> hoping someone else had a different experience
Jul 29 04:03:23 <Slaxxer> so which were u using before?
Jul 29 04:04:06 <Undrwater> an earlier shr...also tried qtopia, android, and OM2009
Jul 29 04:05:08 <Undrwater> shr was the only distro so far that's been a phone for me
Jul 29 04:19:21 <Slaxxer> neovento works
Jul 29 04:26:28 <Undrwater> haven't tried that one yet
Jul 29 04:54:46 <Fossi> hi
Jul 29 06:50:20 <daniel32708> Hello people!   I just reflashed my frerunner, 2008,  and cant longer see the "wi fi" in settings,    has anyone had that problem?
Jul 29 06:52:10 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: reflashed with OM2008?
Jul 29 06:52:21 <daniel32708> yes sir
Jul 29 06:52:28 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: nobody cares about OM2008.
Jul 29 06:52:51 <daniel32708> only 2009 now a days?
Jul 29 06:55:29 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: there's also SHR, Debian, Gentoo, H:1, QtMoko (qtopia on Debian with X support), Pyneo on Debian, android...
Jul 29 06:55:36 <methril|work> morning
Jul 29 06:56:13 <daniel32708> PaulFertser:  yeah i know... but those arent the official ones....  those arent openmoko
Jul 29 06:58:42 <daniel32708> what happened with openmoko then?   
Jul 29 07:00:38 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: don't you see the channel topic?
Jul 29 07:00:48 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: and in fact OM2008 was dead-born anyway.
Jul 29 07:03:07 <daniel32708> PaulFertser:  i knew that FIC had put on hold its new phones and limiting support,  but  OM2008-2009 are driven by the community..not FIC,  i dont see why they are "dead"
Jul 29 07:05:43 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: FIC didn't take part in development of FR at all, it was all Openmoko Inc.
Jul 29 07:05:52 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: Openmoko != FIC
Jul 29 07:06:11 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: OM2008 was never driven by community. And it was never a good idea in the first place.
Jul 29 07:06:22 <daniel32708> PaulFertser: how about om2009?
Jul 29 07:06:25 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: OM2009 is OE-based distro with FSO and Paroli preinstalled.
Jul 29 07:06:57 <daniel32708> PaulFertser:  but what do u think about  om2009?   should it be useD?
Jul 29 07:07:44 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: imho it'd be better to collaborate with SHR folks, they're more active and numerous. And if you want Paroli on SHR -- nothing prevents you from using that.
Jul 29 07:08:19 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: SHR uses FSO too, so Paroli should feel at home there.
Jul 29 07:09:11 <daniel32708> PaulFertser: are u currently using shr?
Jul 29 07:09:44 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: no, i'm using Debian with zhone :(
Jul 29 07:10:41 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: but i recommend you to try Paroli no matter which distro you choose (not sure it'll work on Debian as it probably lacks recent enough elementary).
Jul 29 07:11:14 <daniel32708> i will try SHR to se how it work
Jul 29 07:11:17 <daniel32708> works
Jul 29 07:11:26 <PaulFertser> daniel32708: you'll need SHR unstable, testing is too old.
Jul 29 07:11:33 <daniel32708> yep
Jul 29 07:15:30 <daniel32708> PaulFertser: thx 4 all ur help man
Jul 29 07:15:52 <daniel32708> PaulFertser: ill install shr and see how it goes
Jul 29 07:15:57 <daniel32708> PaulFertser: cya all later
Jul 29 08:01:34 <sybren> I'm running SHR Unstable on my Freerunner. frameworkd uses a continuous 7-15% CPU while the phone is doing nothing at all. Is this normal?
Jul 29 08:07:47 <lindi_> sybren: strace it
Jul 29 08:19:27 <Kamping_Kaiser> ffs. lend a freerunner to my mate and i cant get it booting now
Jul 29 08:21:25 <Kagee> Kamping_Kaiser: charge it?
Jul 29 08:21:43 <sybren> lindi_: may I then assume that the usage isn't expected?
Jul 29 08:22:00 <Kamping_Kaiser> Kagee: its not booting when i plug it into the laptop, but i'm otherwise working on it
Jul 29 08:22:06 <Kamping_Kaiser> s/it/charging
Jul 29 08:22:25 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: wall charger can do better
Jul 29 08:22:48 <tomcatek> maybye You have to change USB charging rate?
Jul 29 08:23:03 <Kamping_Kaiser> PaulFertser: ok, I'll dig one up
Jul 29 08:23:49 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: if you have a nokia bl-5c it'd be easier and faster to hotswap.
Jul 29 08:24:09 <nullix> when it refuses to boot, i try following : remove battery, conenct USB, then maintain power button pressed while inserting the battery, cross fingers...
Jul 29 08:24:10 <Kamping_Kaiser> PaulFertser: I don't, but i've got two freerunners, so i can swap the batteries
Jul 29 08:24:32 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: so do it. Boot with "good" battery. Connect to laptop, hotswap the batteries.
Jul 29 08:24:45 <Kamping_Kaiser> PaulFertser: roger
Jul 29 08:25:19 <PaulFertser> nullix: i can boot to NOR u-boot without a battery (A6 here) but it looks like it depends on host. It works with my PC but not with my laptop iirc. 
Jul 29 08:25:52 <PaulFertser> When i have my battery run really flat i spent half an hour trying to boot using laptop only. Gave up, used the wallcharger. Worked immediately. 
Jul 29 08:26:02 <PaulFertser> s/have/had/
Jul 29 08:26:11 <nullix> should depends of how many amperes gives USB power
Jul 29 08:26:17 <PaulFertser> nullix: no
Jul 29 08:26:34 <PaulFertser> nullix: the problem is that you can't draw more than 100mA from a usb port until negotiated on more.
Jul 29 08:26:49 <PaulFertser> nullix: but the kernel turns on backlight and stuff earlier than it does USB negotiations.
Jul 29 08:26:53 <nullix> well, it depends on negotation then
Jul 29 08:27:21 <nullix> does the fact to insert battery will trigger negotation ?
Jul 29 08:27:22 <PaulFertser> nullix: wall charger is special, as it doesn't require usb negotiations, the kernel "feels" it and switches to 1A charging mode immediately.
Jul 29 08:27:29 <PaulFertser> No
Jul 29 08:27:51 <nullix> of course it is not working then it does nothing...
Jul 29 08:28:03 <PaulFertser> I think i'll try to cook a patch to Qi to allow booting without a battery from wall-charger.
Jul 29 08:28:38 <PaulFertser> nullix: the problem is that kernel does something power-consuming _before_ initializing usb. And PMU cuts off power to obey 100mA restriction.
Jul 29 08:29:32 <PaulFertser> nullix: i don't have a debugboard atm to see serial output so i can't give more clues to the reasons of violating 100mA restriction. Probably will do that later with my usb-uart converter...
Jul 29 08:54:51 <Darkas> #join #openmoko-cdevel
Jul 29 08:55:02 <Darkas> sorry ;)
Jul 29 08:55:15 <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
Jul 29 09:23:17 <Kamping_Kaiser> is the latest recommended/released uboot the one with Om2008.12
Jul 29 09:29:33 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: i'm not sure uboot is recommended ;)
Jul 29 09:29:47 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: Qi ftw ;)
Jul 29 09:30:44 <Kamping_Kaiser> PaulFertser: you qi hipster you. some of us need to be able to dual boot :)
Jul 29 09:30:59 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: i'm able to dual boot.
Jul 29 09:31:04 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: did it yesterday
Jul 29 09:31:15 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: needed to boot my NAND to fix uSD.
Jul 29 09:31:16 <Kagee> Kamping_Kaiser: you can still boot uboot fra ... NAND
Jul 29 09:31:20 <Kamping_Kaiser> PaulFertser: i thought Qi couldnt do that
Jul 29 09:31:42 <PaulFertser> Kamping_Kaiser: it can. Just press AUX at exactly the right time and it'll skip the boot possibility.
Jul 29 09:31:58 <Kamping_Kaiser> interesting
Jul 29 09:32:00 <PaulFertser> Kagee: booting from NOR u-boot is strongly discouraged.
Jul 29 09:32:12 <PaulFertser> Kagee: (i mean booting to use the device as a phone)
Jul 29 09:32:30 <Kagee> that i didn't know
Jul 29 09:33:02 <Kamping_Kaiser> neither
Jul 29 09:33:12 <PaulFertser> Kagee: obviously NOR u-boot is mad old and doesn't include all the fixes. And the kernel unfortunately doesn't ensure all GPIOs, PMU etc are initialized properly. So you might have all kinds of weird problems with NOR uboot.
Jul 29 09:33:29 <PaulFertser> Come on, it's obvious 
Jul 29 09:33:30 <PaulFertser> ;)
Jul 29 09:34:30 <Kamping_Kaiser> NOR is power+aux?
Jul 29 09:35:17 <Kamping_Kaiser> er, *aux+power
Jul 29 09:35:17 * lindi_ just had to binary patch Qi to make sure it does not pass conxole=tty0
Jul 29 09:43:46 <PaulFertser> lindi_: you have very special requirements after all. Qi is supposed to work for ordinary people out-of-the-box ;)
Jul 29 09:44:48 <lindi_> PaulFertser: i did this to reproduce a bug for enrico
Jul 29 10:43:29 <Darkas> could it be that the gps poweron "file" in /sys changed since it was listed in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs
Jul 29 10:43:30 <Darkas> ?
Jul 29 10:43:43 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jul 29 10:44:08 <SpeedEvil> The wiki documentation is kept up to date by a crack staff of dead monkeys.
Jul 29 10:49:48 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: who cares about wiki sysfs documentation when there's source easily available and understandable?
Jul 29 10:52:47 <lindi_> PaulFertser: not everyone knows C
Jul 29 10:53:53 <PaulFertser> lindi_: sysfs attributes have a very specific syntax
Jul 29 10:54:39 <PaulFertser> lindi_: i'm sure that even if you show a linux kernel driver to a man who did only Lisp for the whole life he'll be able to figure sysfs node names quite quickly. And that is an extreme case.
Jul 29 10:58:04 <Weiss> the name of a sysfs file is easy enough to find out, but the heirarchy is quite tricky if you don't vaguely know your way around the kernel source
Jul 29 11:00:58 <PaulFertser> Weiss: yes, but it's not really needed since you have /bin/find handy ;)
Jul 29 12:19:43 <jaj> hi, do you think that an active GPRS connection can seriously degrade the quality of the GPS signal?
Jul 29 12:21:00 <Kamping_Kaiser> interesting question. I hope theres an interesting answer. (I'm not sure what frequency GPS runs on, but I doubt it'll cop much interferance from GPRS)
Jul 29 12:22:16 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jul 29 12:22:22 <SpeedEvil> it can, and in some cases does.
Jul 29 12:22:37 <SpeedEvil> It depends on the quality of the filters on the GPS largely.
Jul 29 12:22:53 <jaj> I think I have less accurate GPS traces when I use GPRS at the same time
Jul 29 12:22:54 <SpeedEvil> GPRS is up to 2W transmitter.
Jul 29 12:23:07 <jaj> on the freerunner that is
Jul 29 12:23:07 <SpeedEvil> GPS is 50W - covering the whole hemisphere.
Jul 29 12:23:37 <SpeedEvil> If you have a transmitter running at several hundred billion times the signal that the GPS is emitting - filtering is hard.
Jul 29 12:23:46 <SpeedEvil> signal that the GPS is recieving
Jul 29 12:26:35 <Kamping_Kaiser> SpeedEvil: correct me if i misunderstood - are you saying the GPS in an FR puts out 50w?
Jul 29 12:26:50 <Kamping_Kaiser> and the GPRS is putting out 2w?
Jul 29 12:27:03 <SpeedEvil> No - the GPS satellite broadcasts 50W
Jul 29 12:27:09 <SpeedEvil> for an entire hemisphere of coverage
Jul 29 12:27:22 <SpeedEvil> the GPRS radio transmits at a power of under 2W
Jul 29 12:27:56 <SpeedEvil> And it's several hundred trillion
Jul 29 12:28:26 <Kamping_Kaiser> oh good. i was worried for a moment >.>
Jul 29 12:28:56 <Kamping_Kaiser> wonder what frequency GPS runs at.
Jul 29 12:29:20 <SpeedEvil> 1500some
Jul 29 12:29:22 <SpeedEvil> MHz
Jul 29 12:31:48 <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. 50W doesnt seem like much for that frequency, bu I guess you don't need to receive much to get a signal
Jul 29 12:32:30 <SpeedEvil> Kamping_Kaiser: You've also got between a factor of 1000, and 20000 coding gain - depending on how you measure stuff.
Jul 29 12:32:43 <SpeedEvil> Kamping_Kaiser: and the fundamental datarate is only 50bps
Jul 29 12:33:27 <Kamping_Kaiser> thats a big gain.
Jul 29 12:33:27 <SpeedEvil> the 50bps signal basically says what time it is on the satellite, and gives orbital info. 
Jul 29 13:44:38 <skamster> hello there.. i've a strange problem.. if i connect my brothers openmoko, then it doesn't show anything on the computer.. using kubuntu 9.04 and shr-unstable from yesterday.. the strange thing is: my openmoko is already updatet, but it works
Jul 29 13:45:18 <skamster> with dmesg on openmoko it show's me this: usb curlim to 100 mA
Jul 29 13:45:23 <skamster> when i connected it
Jul 29 13:45:41 <skamster> and usb curlim to 0 mA when i disconnectet it
Jul 29 13:45:59 <skamster> so, does someone know, where the problem is?
Jul 29 13:46:05 <SpeedEvil> what doesn't work?
Jul 29 13:46:37 <skamster> i couldn't connect the phone to my computer... it doesn't appear on the pc
Jul 29 13:46:39 <SpeedEvil> you can't connect to usb0?
Jul 29 13:46:46 <SpeedEvil> what do you mean by appear
Jul 29 13:46:52 <skamster> not usb0, normaly it's ethx
Jul 29 13:47:00 <skamster> but i could, with my openmoko
Jul 29 13:47:06 <SpeedEvil> and yes - now it's ethx - I was wondering if that was your issue
Jul 29 13:47:20 <skamster> now, i have the openmoko of my brother
Jul 29 13:47:22 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jul 29 13:47:23 <skamster> same software
Jul 29 13:47:28 <skamster> but it doesn't work
Jul 29 13:47:32 <SpeedEvil> same cable?
Jul 29 13:47:35 <skamster> yes
Jul 29 13:47:36 <skamster> 2
Jul 29 13:47:55 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I don't have any immediate insights.
Jul 29 13:47:55 <skamster> both cables work with my moko, both doesn't work with the other one
Jul 29 13:48:04 <SpeedEvil> Umm
Jul 29 13:48:24 <skamster> so i maked a dmesg on the moko of my brother.. it detect something, but not the right thing..
Jul 29 13:48:25 <SpeedEvil> does the ethernet module say anything?
Jul 29 13:48:36 <skamster> usb curlim to 100 mA
Jul 29 13:48:38 <skamster> just this
Jul 29 13:48:54 <SpeedEvil> Is the OM charged and on?
Jul 29 13:49:03 <skamster> yes
Jul 29 13:49:14 <SpeedEvil> And is it plugged into a motherboard port directly, or a powered hub?
Jul 29 13:50:13 <skamster> on a normal usb-connector on my laptop.. nothing with peripherie, but i didn't open my laptop ;)
Jul 29 13:51:05 <skamster> mmh, there is one diffrent, but i don't know, if this is important.. the phone of my brother had no simcard for now
Jul 29 13:51:35 <SpeedEvil> Shouldn't be
Jul 29 13:51:41 <SpeedEvil> can you pastebin the dmesg?
Jul 29 13:52:17 <skamster> it's a little bit difficult, because i hadn't a wireless-programm on the moko
Jul 29 13:52:34 <skamster> and without shell on the computer.. mmh.. :s
Jul 29 13:52:45 <alfatangoxt> ave
Jul 29 13:52:56 <SpeedEvil> err
Jul 29 13:53:07 <SpeedEvil> you don't have access to the computer?
Jul 29 13:53:19 <SpeedEvil> that you're plugging it into?
Jul 29 13:53:34 <skamster> i have access to the computer, but the computer doesn't reconize anything
Jul 29 13:53:41 <skamster> just the moko does
Jul 29 13:54:03 <SpeedEvil> There is no mention at all of any USB peripheral being plugged into the host computer?
Jul 29 13:54:28 <SpeedEvil> (in syslog/dmesg)
Jul 29 13:56:26 <skamster> no
Jul 29 13:57:44 <skamster> it just reconize the other moko
Jul 29 13:57:45 <skamster> :s
Jul 29 13:57:54 <skamster> there's nothing 
Jul 29 13:58:33 <skamster> mh
Jul 29 13:58:39 <SpeedEvil> I would first try seeing what happens when I plug the 'dead' OM in and reboot it
Jul 29 13:58:42 <SpeedEvil> while connected
Jul 29 13:58:56 <skamster> i reflash it with a older version..
Jul 29 13:59:08 <skamster> i does it, but it's the same
Jul 29 13:59:16 <SpeedEvil> It can be reflashed?
Jul 29 13:59:30 <skamster> yeah, flashing is possible
Jul 29 13:59:55 <SpeedEvil> If it's not showing up in when you plug it in - it's certainly not reflashable - on that computer - as I understnad it.
Jul 29 14:00:05 <skamster> but it's strange, because i'm also on the newest version.. so i have the same software
Jul 29 14:02:41 <skamster> mmh.. ok, i just looked for things like usb0/ethx
Jul 29 14:03:10 <skamster> and i think, on u-boot isn't something like that
Jul 29 14:06:04 <SpeedEvil> I mean - what shows up in syslog when you plug the OM in. 
Jul 29 14:06:46 <lindi_> skamster: boot loader does not matter but the kernel parameters do
Jul 29 14:07:15 <lindi_> skamster: Qi is hardcoded to pass some parameters to kernel that change that
Jul 29 14:13:14 <skamster> SpeedEvil: when i plug in the om, nothing
Jul 29 14:14:00 <skamster> mh, ah, yeah, by flashing, there is something, but on the mainsys was nothing
Jul 29 14:14:44 <skamster> lindi_: i didn't change something in kerel parameters..
Jul 29 14:15:11 <skamster> i've just build in a "jumper" for qi
Jul 29 14:15:43 <skamster> because i want to start shr from internal flash, with a secondary sys on the memorycard
Jul 29 14:15:51 <lindi_> skamster: but the boot loader is hardcoded to change it
Jul 29 16:05:25 <sid> hi, how can i export the phonebook to a file in shr-testing?
Jul 29 16:07:32 <sid>  echo at+cpbr=1 |mickeyterm does not work well
Jul 29 16:08:00 <sid> it only gives me a output after 2/3 runs
Jul 29 16:08:06 <lindi_> sid: why do you expect it to work? ;)
Jul 29 16:09:52 <sid> lindi_: syntax or what?
Jul 29 16:13:39 <lindi_> sid: reading from stdin
Jul 29 16:26:22 <sid> lindi_: should work...     cat test|mickeyterm         works... test is filled with at+cpbr=1-99
Jul 29 16:55:03 <fredrin> FAIL: Start GPRS with SHR-Setings, get connected, disconnect and now I can't ssh into the phone, FIX restart networking
Jul 29 16:55:43 <fredrin> FAIL: Start GPRS use pidgin, disconnect, now suspend dosent work 
Jul 29 17:04:33 <Meomer> hmm, i don't get a wireless connection anymore, there's no eth0 device even after unloading and reloading the ar6000 module
Jul 29 17:24:00 * poz is elsewhere - Automagically set away at Wed Jul 29 10:24:00 2009 -
Jul 29 18:34:31 <Meomer> hmm, what is the exact use of the split button in the track logging tab ov tangogps?
Jul 29 18:34:53 <SpeedEvil> it is to split a track
Jul 29 18:35:03 <SpeedEvil> For example, you have driven up to a cliff in your car.
Jul 29 18:35:17 <SpeedEvil> You split the track, and jump off by a parachute.
Jul 29 18:35:36 <Kagee> Meomer: It starts a new log-file with a new timestamp, from the time you press the button
Jul 29 18:35:37 <SpeedEvil> You then land, split the track again, and ride back a mountain bike trail to your car.
Jul 29 18:36:10 <SpeedEvil> You don't want the three tracks to be in one, as they are different modes of transport, and require different tagging - if uploading to openstreetmap.
Jul 29 18:36:37 <Meomer> so, how would you go on about getting villages "marked" for instance to add to OSM?
Jul 29 18:37:11 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_Guide
Jul 29 18:37:21 <SpeedEvil> you basically take your track, upload it, and annotate it.
Jul 29 18:41:11 <SpeedEvil> Also - #osm on irc.oftc.net is elpful.
Jul 29 18:41:12 <SpeedEvil> ^h
Jul 29 18:41:36 <Meomer> i'm gonna kill my GF's brother for giving me his freerunner
Jul 29 18:41:59 <Meomer> before that i had a quiet and peaceful irc life which only needed shortcuts for 20 windows ;)
Jul 29 18:53:16 <Weiss> hehe
Jul 29 18:55:26 <Meomer> i was just wondering if using split on a bus journey might be a good way of saving where i am when the bus stops in a little village for instance :)
Jul 29 18:56:59 <SpeedEvil> ideally there'd also be a little button to take voice notes too. Or if you have a camera, you sync it to gps time (take a pic of the screen at the start of the day) - and then take pics of signs/... which are ayutoamticlaly taggable with the location.
Jul 29 18:57:02 <SpeedEvil> Meomer: where are you?
Jul 29 18:57:40 <Meomer> Zurich
Jul 29 18:58:51 <SpeedEvil> Statistically, four other mappers on the bus will also be mappers :)
Jul 29 18:59:21 <Meomer> i don't bother for zurich :)
Jul 29 18:59:23 <SpeedEvil> the germans are expanding their mapping now they've finished germany! :)
Jul 29 18:59:30 <CIA-54> openmoko: 03werner * r5336 10/developers/werner/fped/ (10 files): 
Jul 29 18:59:30 <CIA-54> openmoko: - slight Makefile cleanup
Jul 29 18:59:30 <CIA-54> openmoko: - cleaned up variable display (on-going)
Jul 29 18:59:40 <Meomer> they should have some nice holidays in the south of switzerland
Jul 29 19:01:42 <PaulFertser> Heh, switching to report charger state directly proved to be more difficult than i first appreciated :D Having no debug board i used some stupid software hack (not lindi_'s ramconsole as i didn't want to bother with it) to find out that "BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context... irqs_disabled"...
Jul 29 19:07:18 <CIA-54> openmoko: 03werner * r5337 10/developers/werner/fped/ (gui_canvas.c qfn.fpd): 
Jul 29 19:07:18 <CIA-54> openmoko: - fixed syntax error in qfn.fpd
Jul 29 19:07:18 <CIA-54> openmoko: - coordinate display now looks more like KiCad's
Jul 29 19:41:05 <fredrin> any good examples if i want to play with python and bluetooth the FSO way? 
Jul 29 19:42:09 <Kagee> fredrin: as far as i know, the fso part of bluetooth on the fr is only to turn it on
Jul 29 19:42:31 <Kagee> after that the bluez4 (linuz bluetooth framework) waktes over the job
Jul 29 19:42:44 <fredrin> Kagee, ah, ok
Jul 29 19:42:45 <Kagee> s/wakes/takes/g
Jul 29 19:44:05 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r937201bc7bbf 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_ogsmd_calls.py: opimd: ogsmd-Calls: fix error when loading entries
Jul 29 19:59:51 <fredrin> Kagee, cant find any example doc on how to turn bluetooth on and off at the freesmartphone.org site, weak 
Jul 29 20:00:57 <Meomer> oh, i still haven't found a way to get my eth0 back :)
Jul 29 20:01:00 <fredrin> tried to use mdbus with os.system but that gave lots of warnings, guess that is not the Right Way to do ti 
Jul 29 20:01:25 <fredrin> Meomer, restart network service? 
Jul 29 20:01:59 <Meomer> i just tried unloading and reloading the ar6000 module
Jul 29 20:03:11 <lindi_> Meomer: why?
Jul 29 20:03:19 <Meomer> the iface just doesn't show up in ifconfig -a anymore
Jul 29 20:03:29 <fredrin> epic fail 
Jul 29 20:03:31 <Meomer> and i'm at a loss finding serious logs :)
Jul 29 20:03:31 <lindi_> Meomer: bind it?
Jul 29 20:03:49 <CIA-54> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r24c16346bc05 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (pimd_calls.py pimd_contacts.py pimd_messages.py): opimd: make merging a little faster and fix bug with duplicates
Jul 29 20:04:11 <PaulFertser> Meomer: what distro are you using?
Jul 29 20:04:25 <PaulFertser> Meomer: if it's FSO-based i suggest fsoraw.
Jul 29 20:04:26 <Meomer> shr unstable
Jul 29 20:04:53 <PaulFertser> Meomer: fsoraw -r WiFi -- wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -Dwext -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf 
Jul 29 20:04:58 <PaulFertser> Meomer: is what you want.
Jul 29 20:05:41 <Meomer> i haven't used wpa_supplicant, just iwconfig
Jul 29 20:07:12 <PaulFertser> Meomer: i suggest you use wpa_supplicant for all networks
Jul 29 20:07:21 <Meomer> even unprotected?
Jul 29 20:07:28 <PaulFertser> Meomer: using ifconfig up/down can expose wlan driver bugs.
Jul 29 20:07:41 <PaulFertser> Meomer: yes, even unprotected. It automatically scans and connects to the one available.
Jul 29 20:07:52 <PaulFertser> Meomer: (and present in its config)
Jul 29 20:08:05 <Meomer> well, using ifconfig is out of the question so far anyway since i don't have an iface to work on :)
Jul 29 20:08:48 <PaulFertser> Meomer: fsoraw is the answer
Jul 29 20:09:17 <PaulFertser> . o O ( shit, it's _really_ time to write a wikipage about FSO resources, everyday the same questions ... )
Jul 29 20:10:59 <CIA-54> openmoko: 03daveb * r5338 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (cpu.sch gta02-core.sch): AMP_SHUT and HP_IN signals aren't needed - ecn0010
Jul 29 20:11:13 <lindi_> PaulFertser: does fsoraw have a manual page?
Jul 29 20:11:31 <PaulFertser> lindi_: i'm afraid no.
Jul 29 20:11:45 <PaulFertser> lindi_: though you know a good method to generate it.
Jul 29 20:11:52 <Kagee> fredrin: usageiface.RequestResource('Bluetooth')
Jul 29 20:12:14 <lindi_> PaulFertser: nope, i'd need to run it :)
Jul 29 20:12:15 <Kagee> and usageiface.ReleaseResource('Bluetooth') - that's on of - in cli-framework
Jul 29 20:13:22 <PaulFertser> lindi_: i can run it for you ;)
Jul 29 20:13:51 <lindi_> sorry, not interested :)
Jul 29 20:14:03 <lindi_> i'll stick to iwconfig
Jul 29 20:14:06 <lindi_> and ifup
Jul 29 20:14:47 <ndnihil_> wow
Jul 29 20:15:03 <ndnihil> work just sent me a samsung sph-i700
Jul 29 20:15:08 <ndnihil> thing is huge
Jul 29 20:15:11 <ndnihil> even compared to the FR
Jul 29 20:29:03 <fredrin> why do i get this warning:         obj = dbus.SystemBus().get_object('org.freesmartphone.ousaged', '/org/freesmartphone/Usage')
Jul 29 20:29:04 <fredrin>         request = dbus.Interface(obj, 'org.freesmartphone.Usage').RequestResource('GPS')
Jul 29 20:29:07 <Meomer> paulfertser: i guess my mistake was that i never even thought that this is handled by the fso
Jul 29 20:29:11 <fredrin> ups
Jul 29 20:29:16 <fredrin> wrong buffer
Jul 29 20:29:39 <fredrin> Using **pending_return in dbus_connection_send_with_reply_setup() without pending_setup is deprecated and strongly discouraged
Jul 29 20:29:56 <fredrin> ^^
Jul 29 20:30:09 <ndnihil> the utility you are using calls a function that will soon be unavailable in that lib
Jul 29 20:30:30 <ndnihil> mdbus ?
Jul 29 20:30:46 <ndnihil> I get it with that a lot
Jul 29 20:32:19 <fredrin> objBluetooth = dbus.SystemBus().get_object('org.freesmartphone.ousaged', '/org/freesmartphone/Usage')
Jul 29 20:32:19 <fredrin> requestBluetooth = dbus.Interface(objBluetooth, 'org.freesmartphone.Usage').RequestResource('Bluetooth')
Jul 29 20:32:32 <fredrin> this is the way I try to request it
Jul 29 20:37:00 <PaulFertser> E's battery gadget still doesn't like my gta01 battery driver. Shit :(
Jul 29 20:42:18 * mwester summons raster to the White House for a beer, in order to explain the battery gadget's apparent prejudice to the gta01.
Jul 29 20:43:10 <Meomer> is fso documentation hard to come by in general? :)
Jul 29 20:44:15 <PaulFertser> Meomer: docs.freesmartphone.org
Jul 29 20:45:33 <Kagee> Meomer: fso *examples might be hard to come by, except i.e zhone or cli-framework.
Jul 29 20:45:42 <fredrin> Meomer, it's just very weak, lacks examples 
Jul 29 20:46:01 <fredrin> medium fail 
Jul 29 20:46:03 <Kagee> *docs are where PaulFertser pointed you
Jul 29 20:46:24 <Meomer> it lacks a keyword for me, which would be wifi
Jul 29 20:47:50 <fredrin> Kagee, been reading there, but could not find examples
Jul 29 20:48:15 <fredrin> now i just looked at how openBmap get's it resources, but then i got the warnings
Jul 29 20:48:53 <PaulFertser> mwester: he expects to deal with smart enough batteries...
Jul 29 20:49:03 <fredrin> i could do it with mdbus, but want to learn how to do it the FSO way
Jul 29 20:49:51 <PaulFertser> mwester: his code looks for either charge_now or energy_now or voltage_now and then does some weird calculation...
Jul 29 20:50:05 <PaulFertser> mwester: and we need it to simple show what "capacity" node has.
Jul 29 20:50:32 <PaulFertser> simply
Jul 29 20:51:04 <mwester> The gta01 dumb battery driver can't expose the *_now sysfs vars?
Jul 29 20:51:20 <mwester> (it's been a very long time since I looked at that, sorry)
Jul 29 20:53:07 <PaulFertser> mwester: i do expose only voltage_now. Obviously lack other values, just nowhere to get those from.
Jul 29 20:53:58 <mwester> How does the driver get capacity, if it does not know the current?
Jul 29 20:54:15 <mwester> Or does it simply guess from the voltage?
Jul 29 20:54:28 <PaulFertser> mwester: and i expose an estimated capacity, based on approximation, yes, guess from the voltage.
Jul 29 20:54:39 <mwester> Hmm.
Jul 29 20:54:51 <PaulFertser> mwester: unfortunately, current readings are impossible on gta02 and useless due to noise on gta01.
Jul 29 20:54:52 <mwester> Well, not very accurate, but I guess it's better than nothing. :D
Jul 29 20:55:03 <PaulFertser> That's what i'm talking about.
Jul 29 20:55:15 <mwester> (current readings) ah, ok.  I recall that discussion now. 
Jul 29 20:55:34 <PaulFertser> And now when i finally fixed a couple of nasty bugs (including race conditions etc) along the way, batget fails to use the driver :(
Jul 29 20:55:48 <mwester> So basically, any attempt by the E gadget to compute capacity on its own is going to be worse than what the driver comes up with, in reality.
Jul 29 20:57:00 <PaulFertser> mwester: funny thing that if i switch battery monitor to HAL method it will use it ok but will be fooled by "usb" and "ac" sysfs nodes as it finds a mean of capacities expressed in percentages (utter nonsense!)
Jul 29 20:57:51 <mwester> BTW, it did occur to me a long time ago when we first discussed the voltage-to-capacity conversion function that it would be nice it there was a sysfs node one could write a table into, in order to load a custom table for a specific battery, or battery type.  Assuming, for example, that the voltage vs capacity for a Nokia battery is different than that of the moko gta01 battery...
Jul 29 20:58:02 <PaulFertser> mwester: raster says that it's bug in HAL that it shows USB as a battery. But how does it matter, as battery is the only device actually providing necessary nodes...
Jul 29 20:58:30 <Wonka> tobii_: http://blog.koehntopp.de/archives/2516-Wardriving-fuer-Maenner.html
Jul 29 20:58:45 <PaulFertser> mwester: yes, i thought about that too. Doable but not very useable. Folks say that basically all LiIon batteries are the same.
Jul 29 20:59:00 <mwester> Well, it's a bug in HAL that it computes the number of batteries based on bogus sysfs dirs, instead of on the specific content of the sysfs files that could tell it which are bats and which are not.
Jul 29 20:59:29 <Wonka> USB is more like AC than like a Battery, nor?
Jul 29 20:59:46 <PaulFertser> mwester: it provides 3 batteries: one real, one apm emulated and one USB. It considers USB to be a battery on purpose (unknown to me, but there's a specific commit).
Jul 29 21:00:12 <mwester> Agreed on the doable but not very usable part -- especially since it really doesn't matter how accurate it is, except at the "nearly dead" end of the scale (where we need to take action; all else is just to light up bars for the user on the UI)
Jul 29 21:00:13 <PaulFertser> mwester: but averaging percentages doesn't make any sense too! If raster did the right thing those bogus batteries would be simply ignored.
Jul 29 21:00:58 <mwester> (averaging percentages) good point.  Mathematically silly.
Jul 29 21:01:33 <PaulFertser> I even talked him to agree that that's wrong and we agreed on a different (sane) stratagy of dealing with multiple batteries. But he's no time for that.
Jul 29 21:01:34 <mwester> Wonka,  I would agree that USB is more like AC, at least for the OM devices.
Jul 29 21:01:36 <PaulFertser> ATM
Jul 29 21:06:53 <CIA-54> openmoko: 03daveb * r5339 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (cpu.sch docs/ecn/ecn0009.txt docs/ecn/ecn0025.txt io.sch): review ecn0009 and ecn0025, impliment ecn0025
Jul 29 21:07:27 <PaulFertser> I think i need to foul his batget for the driver to be actually useable. :(
Jul 29 21:11:51 <PaulFertser> s/foul/fool/
Jul 29 21:11:51 <apt> PaulFertser meant: I think i need to fool his batget for the driver to be actually useable. :(
Jul 29 21:18:25 <PaulFertser> Yay, seem to work as expected now!
Jul 29 21:24:07 * PaulFertser has only 2 easy bugs in bq27000 left and i will declare battery management on FR as proper and complete :D 
Jul 29 21:29:01 <Weiss> :D
Jul 29 21:30:45 <Weiss> PaulFertser: ^
Jul 29 21:31:01 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: do you have any log that proves that initially charging current threshold was set too low? Your batlog.txt.odf looks ok in this regard.
Jul 29 21:32:03 <PaulFertser> Weiss: funny how many things you go through (including races, workqueues, mutexes, irqs and other "hardcore" stuff) just to make a really dumb battery driver...
Jul 29 21:32:22 <Weiss> yeah
Jul 29 21:33:50 <lindi_> Weiss: any comments on http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2302 ?
Jul 29 21:34:24 <PaulFertser> lindi_: again?
Jul 29 21:34:56 <PaulFertser> lindi_: there's a specific commit in OM (and only here) that turns off the proper behaviour (to disable trigger when brightness is set to 0).
Jul 29 21:35:16 <Weiss> definitely outside my (limited) area of knowledge..
Jul 29 21:35:17 <PaulFertser> lindi_: i can't see why do you care that much about it.
Jul 29 21:35:57 <lindi_> PaulFertser: because it affects my utility :)
Jul 29 21:36:11 <PaulFertser> lindi_: i can revert that commit in now time, i just can't see how we benefit from it since we'll drop all the crap anyway really soon.
Jul 29 21:36:20 <PaulFertser> s/now time/no time/
Jul 29 21:36:21 <apt> PaulFertser meant: lindi_: i can revert that commit in no time, i just can't see how we benefit from it since we'll drop all the crap anyway really soon.
Jul 29 21:36:31 <lindi_> PaulFertser: how about dropping it one small piece at a time?
Jul 29 21:36:43 <PaulFertser> lindi_: come on, you've already implemented a decent workaround in your utility ;)
Jul 29 21:38:06 <PaulFertser> lindi_: it looks like you didn't read the kernel ML for long enough... We're going to stop developing andy-tracking altogether. Get 2.6.31 and topic branches for pushing drivers upstream. This is inevitable and we'll drop all the crap (like that Sean's commit) like a side-effect.
Jul 29 21:38:41 <PaulFertser> s/like a/as a/
Jul 29 21:38:41 <apt> PaulFertser meant: lindi_: it looks like you didn't read the kernel ML for long enough... We're going to stop developing andy-tracking altogether. Get 2.6.31 and topic branches for pushing drivers upstream. This is inevitable and we'll drop all the crap (like that Sean's co...
Jul 29 21:38:54 * PaulFertser should really go to sleep now
Jul 29 21:41:17 <PaulFertser> And i really don't like how FSO informs me of the charging/battery state :( The battery is still not full obviously because charger is active. But the voltage is already near the upper limit, so the driver reports 100% capacity. And FSO turns on the blue led...
Jul 29 21:41:49 <PaulFertser> Moreover when the charge will be over and the battery will start to discharge on GSM modem it won't give me any clue, the led will still be blue.
Jul 29 21:42:57 <PaulFertser> And it will discharge to 76% before the charger will kick in again. It's correct behaviour but i want to be noticed properly about that.
Jul 29 21:46:15 <PaulFertser> Ok, really away now. See you :)
Jul 29 22:27:03 <CIA-54> openmoko: 03daveb * r5340 10/trunk/gta02-core/io.sch: vibrator cleanup from Rask Ingemann Lambertsen <ccc94453@vip.cybercity.dk>
Jul 29 22:31:09 <Slaxxer> latest os news?
Jul 29 23:24:21 <steack2> pini where r u?
Jul 30 01:54:09 <marex> hi, is qt-extended-improved still being maintained or is it dead ?
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