**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 30 02:59:57 2009 Jul 30 05:40:58 rooly Jul 30 05:41:19 my replacement screen is here tomorrow Jul 30 05:45:06 Slaxxer: nice. Where do you get it from? Jul 30 07:19:50 PaulFertser: sorry, no batlog for delayed charge-end detection Jul 30 07:58:36 morning Jul 30 08:19:31 Can the public buy openmoko's phone and is it read for normal users ? Jul 30 08:26:04 tarelerulz: Openmoko FreeRunner phone can be bought by public of course. But softwares are not ready to be use by anybody. Jul 30 08:28:39 I went to openmoko site and It said the phone comes with flickr and youtube . That sounds pretty close to me. From that I thought maybe it was readly Jul 30 08:29:07 to get software you need to connect to iMokoTunes ssite, register here with iMokoTunes program that works only under Linux. Then you will be able to buy upgrades each are a little more than 30 dollars... Jul 30 08:29:43 wtf ? Jul 30 08:30:20 no, ah sorry, openmoko was not yet bought by apple... Jul 30 08:30:25 LOL Jul 30 08:32:18 Can it make phone call and all the funtions that go along with that . like having contacts , texting Jul 30 08:32:40 in fact there is already a free store accessed with a wonderfull programs called 'ssh' and 'wget' Jul 30 08:34:47 nullix++ Jul 30 08:34:51 for me openmoko is not for abnormal users. Jul 30 08:35:39 perhaps for subnormal ones :-) Jul 30 08:35:54 Can it make phone calls ? Jul 30 08:36:13 yes it can. Jul 30 08:37:21 Can you have contacts and do texting ? Jul 30 08:37:30 if 'ssh'ing your phone doesn't trigger in your mind a lighting spot, then this phone is not for you. Jul 30 08:39:12 SSH is cool and all ,but it would be more inportant to make sure it can do what phone is made for first . Don't get me wrong I love Linux and the whole idea of it ,but I would like real phone too Jul 30 08:40:14 in your humble opinion ;) Jul 30 08:40:14 well, it took me four month to replace my normal phone with openmoko, i have to take care to not change the working system, but i have a sdcard and alternate thingies on it. Jul 30 08:40:51 then with it i can send and receive calls and send short messages Jul 30 08:41:29 i had to deactivate pin code on my sims since it was not working with. Jul 30 08:43:27 Kamping_Kaiser: i forgot to take my pills for humility todaysXXXXX this year. Jul 30 08:44:12 Nullix one you got it to where you could send and get phone calls and sent text , how relieable was it ? Did it crash doing that Jul 30 08:44:56 < lindi_> wrote a simple touchscreen locking program that does not let X turn the backlight on when it is locked thus saving energy: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/touchscreen-lock.c -- any comments? Jul 30 08:47:41 tarelerulz: i had quality voice problems and sound levels problems, but with my latest version and after debuzzing i don't have problems anymore. Jul 30 08:48:50 still i don't use normal om version, i use a hackable, anyway there are different distros for freerunner, each have different behavior, each stable version of each version allow to to basic phone usage. Jul 30 08:56:46 DocScrutinizer: but are you really sure that's the case? With the latest Qi it cuts off here at ~30mA and your log shows cut off at ~16mA, looks quite consistent and enough. With charger cut off and GSM inactive (idling waiting for call) average battery current is ~1-3mA, with GSM active ~70mA. Jul 30 08:58:34 tarelerulz: if you think that youtube is cool, FR is not for you imho. Jul 30 09:00:39 PaulFertser: I meant from the home page it looked like openmoko might be ready for normal users . Last time I looked into it you could not even make a phone call muchless have apps alonge with it . Jul 30 09:01:28 tarelerulz: if by normal users you mean those who is ok with all youtube limitations, then no. It will never be ready for them. Jul 30 09:01:58 PaulFertser: I'm puzzled by all your data. I've seen PMU to not stop chrg despite CC reporting a few (2..5) mA constantly. So logical conclusion was modem eats the rest of current. When I switched off GSM, chrg stopped same second Jul 30 09:02:02 tarelerulz: and iirc phonecalls were always possible with public FR version. Jul 30 09:02:44 when you get your freerunner for the first time it is installed with a working phone software Jul 30 09:02:51 DocScrutinizer: hm, you know there're 4 different USB charging modes. Probably i've seen charger cutting off fast charge mode. And your batlog.txt.odf probably shows that too. Jul 30 09:03:05 DocScrutinizer: cut off current might be dependent on the mode currently active. Jul 30 09:04:00 cutoff happens in CV phase, and is triggered by Voltage and Current Jul 30 09:04:14 DocScrutinizer: "a few (2..5) mA" plus or minus? Jul 30 09:04:45 it's the only state transition from charging to not charging, except emergency (overvolt, overtemp, overtime) Jul 30 09:05:26 a few mA charge that should trigger chrg-end-cutout Jul 30 09:05:41 DocScrutinizer: was GPRS on? Jul 30 09:05:59 prolly yes. that's the point I guess Jul 30 09:06:22 Ok, anyway 30mA that i see looks reasonable enough. Jul 30 09:06:39 I have gotten it can do normal phone funtions . How would it compare to google's g1 ? Jul 30 09:07:03 not at all, tarelerulz Jul 30 09:07:05 tarelerulz: google's phone is closed. You don't get schematics Jul 30 09:07:11 tarelerulz: you don't get bootloader sources. Jul 30 09:07:28 tarelerulz: you don't get sources for some important userspace software parts. Jul 30 09:07:33 tarelerulz: compare apples with dragons Jul 30 09:07:45 tarelerulz: you have to unlock it with a special trick. Jul 30 09:08:15 tarelerulz: and truly free software phone stack can't be used on it (hopefully yet). Jul 30 09:08:21 tarelerulz: judge for yourself. Jul 30 09:08:46 tarelerulz: imho G1 sucks Jul 30 09:08:47 tarelerulz: you can eat both (once you killed the dragon), but usually apples are poisoned ;-) Jul 30 09:08:56 What I mean can do you do the same kinds of things like user google maps to find places , youtube , play songs and movies , surf the web Jul 30 09:09:11 tarelerulz: FR has no EDGE btw, only plain GPRS Jul 30 09:09:18 wooo! Qi booting. Guess I should Qify my 2nd FR so they match. Jul 30 09:10:31 tarelerulz: youtube probably requires some tweaking to automatically start youtube-dl+mplayer as youtube leaders are motherfuckers who don't want to do the right thing exposing embedded video in a sane way. Jul 30 09:10:48 Thanks all for telling me all this it is hard to tell from the vidoes out there and the site what it really can do . all the information I find seems to be old or not really telling what I want to know Jul 30 09:11:04 tarelerulz: how compares a mower to a ferrari? which one is better suited to drive to holiday at seaside? Jul 30 09:11:35 tarelerulz: seems it depends on your subjective rules to compare, no? Jul 30 09:11:36 DocScrutinizer: if you drive on russian roads i'd bet on a mower Jul 30 09:13:04 I have been studing android and the g1 alot . I have some good idea what it can do so I was wondering what the openmoko can do . See how it is really open I was think about getting one . Jul 30 09:15:56 tarelerulz: let me put it this way: FR doesn't need a desktop with iTunes to put it to work Jul 30 09:16:49 but you can't run any appstore as well Jul 30 09:17:21 otoh there's mutch beharted opkg ;-) Jul 30 09:17:42 So how is the media players for it ? Can you play movies and music ? can you organize you movies into movies , music videos and tvshows ? Jul 30 09:17:54 tarelerulz: mplayer Jul 30 09:17:58 tarelerulz: if you don't like to use linux ob desktop, you won't probably like Neo Jul 30 09:18:26 at least you can put a 8Gb microSD with videos in it. Jul 30 09:18:29 tarelerulz: and look at opkg.org for "Intone" screenshots. Jul 30 09:18:39 nullix: but most probably won't be able to play it :) Jul 30 09:18:47 tarelerulz: Neo is linux. Check linux to get an idea what you can do with Neo Jul 30 09:20:04 The fact it has mplayer is great. You don't have to have all you stuff in mp4 . Mplayer is one of the best media players I have used. That opens the door for .avi , mp4 , ogg , mkv Jul 30 09:21:03 tarelerulz: sure but playing videos is hard/slow because FR has very limited graphics hardware performance. Probably it will be somewhat changed soon when (some part of) glamo acceleration for media playback will be employed. Jul 30 09:22:40 FR is the only phone that gets better each month even without hardware upgrade... Jul 30 09:23:43 tarelerulz: anyway, despite what paul says, there's a patched version of mplayer that can playback video if coded correctly (no rotate or scaling while playback). So now you got the right idea how to ask right question, which is e.g. "is there a working mplayer for om-linux?" Jul 30 09:23:50 So , Paulfertser I look like it will be getting beter soon. The the main reason I have not gotten g1 or any other android phone was the lack of real good media players . If they could get something like mplayer working on it good. Jul 30 09:24:06 tarelerulz: how come? Jul 30 09:24:20 tarelerulz: i thought mplayer can be used on G1 as well? Jul 30 09:24:28 tarelerulz: what's the problem with it? Jul 30 09:24:41 nullix: easy enough ;-P Jul 30 09:26:30 from all I have read there is ok player for g1 now . I am sure you could hack g1 and get some mplayer on it ,but that is not that cool of thing to me. The whole point of Linux phone is something you dont' need to hack . Jul 30 09:26:49 tarelerulz: google thinks different :( Jul 30 09:27:18 he whole point of Linux phone is something you -are able to hack without crack- Jul 30 09:28:39 nullix: yeah, you're right again. Jul 30 09:28:45 "jailbreak? LOL! on myPhone I'm ROOT" ;-) Jul 30 09:28:46 don't get me wrong I like google ,but they are lacking few things . Media player being the bigest one for me. I would have thought they would had all the main functions worked out . Not waiting for dev to fill the gap months later Jul 30 09:29:17 We don't like google, go away Jul 30 09:29:20 ;) Jul 30 09:29:24 ;-) Jul 30 09:29:34 bah, spit Jul 30 09:30:26 tarelerulz: well android can run on FreeRunner if you really want that... Jul 30 09:31:12 How long do you all thing it will take before openmoko's phone are readly for the main stream public ? Jul 30 09:32:05 tarelerulz: never Jul 30 09:32:12 imho Jul 30 09:33:13 tarelerulz: mainstream public likes shit Jul 30 09:33:36 tarelerulz: look at top music charts for example Jul 30 09:33:59 PaulFertser: ++ :D Jul 30 09:34:18 tarelerulz: va voir sur #freerunner-android Jul 30 09:34:51 i'm happy with my Freerunner now. if it would be "user friendly" at begining, i would be bored with it :P Jul 30 09:35:33 i think that's nice there is some phone with different target than "main stream public" Jul 30 09:35:54 dos1: wish i was happy with my FR too :/ Jul 30 09:37:11 well, now if something doesn't work, then it's probably my fault :P (opimd and others, except GPS :P) Jul 30 09:37:37 If I ever get one I would love something that would let me play more then just mp4 . MP4 is not that great of container at all . MKV can do so much more . When they get mplayer working great I am there Jul 30 09:38:19 dos1: i want fast and comfortable phone application on debian. With support for incremental search in contacts, unlimited smses etc. Jul 30 09:38:32 i already have unlimited smses :P Jul 30 09:38:42 hello there.. ehm, is the mailinglist stop working? i didn't send something, but the last mails from the mailinglist are from thuesday Jul 30 09:38:51 and incremental search is coming ;) Jul 30 09:39:10 dos1: also i want to have a bug fixed that improperly shows me E keyboard when i switch to another E workspace. Jul 30 09:39:20 What is incrmental searchs mean ? like an example of it Jul 30 09:40:05 tarelerulz: type C-r in your bash prompt and start typing some command you used earlier. Jul 30 09:41:00 fsck! :-/ I hate the inadverted close of chan on xchat accidentally hitting the "x" Jul 30 09:48:27 [Do Jul 30 2009] [11:32:05] tarelerulz: never --- +1 !!! :-D Jul 30 10:36:59 hi! quick SHR question.. There used to be some line in /etc/frameworkd-phonegui.conf that specified which contry code it was using, but that line isn't there after reflashing.. My sim card reports the wrong code, and thus all my contacts are unresolved when recieving SMS or calls.. Any idea on how to fix that? Jul 30 10:39:17 tordo: it's in phonegui-utils.conf now Jul 30 10:39:28 or something like that, can't recall the exact name Jul 30 10:39:55 thanks a bunch! Jul 30 10:40:00 You're welcome Jul 30 10:47:41 tordo, hmm, my i got the same problem Jul 30 10:49:00 fredrin: Edit the line in /etc/phonegui-utils.conf Jul 30 10:49:04 works wonders Jul 30 10:49:40 sweet, maybe i'll stop mixing up sms's now Jul 30 10:51:23 why is that seting not set automaticaliy? Jul 30 10:52:03 fredrin: my sim card reports the wrong country code, so i don't blame anyone Jul 30 10:52:36 but the GSM network should report right or some other source Jul 30 10:53:32 or have a list and use gps to find out what country you're in Jul 30 10:53:42 for ultimate solution Jul 30 10:53:51 but then, what if you go roaming? Jul 30 10:53:59 the idea of CC from SIM is insane by design. Jul 30 10:54:12 tordo: exactly Jul 30 10:54:42 ooor what about letting user select country on first boot? Jul 30 10:55:27 there must be some way the phone knows where it's home contry is Jul 30 10:55:28 an automatism that works for 95% but introduces *loads* of moaning and confusion for the remaining 5% is absolutely counterproductive Jul 30 10:55:46 tordo: (user select) exactly Jul 30 10:58:02 DocScrutinizer, eh, no Jul 30 10:58:12 nothing is 100% Jul 30 10:58:58 gah, why is it so hard to get fokus in the Name or Number field when you make a new contact in shr-unstable Jul 30 11:00:00 i wonder why i keep doing this.. when i finally get everything working, i opkg upgrade Jul 30 11:00:10 i wonder what will be broken now \o/ Jul 30 12:26:15 hmm, does a GPRS connection survive a suspend / resume? Jul 30 12:28:44 jaj, in my experience it does Jul 30 12:29:13 perhaps I'm just being unlucky then :) Jul 30 12:35:22 jaj: it certainly does Jul 30 12:35:38 jaj: in fact FR resumes on incoming message on irc. Jul 30 12:35:53 _that_ is cool. Jul 30 12:36:21 Kamping_Kaiser: various "somebody's quit" wake it too :( Jul 30 12:36:29 perhaps it's my provider who disconnects me after a certain time Jul 30 12:36:35 I look forward to the local telcos stop being ****s and give me a phone account which does gprs. Jul 30 12:37:12 the Connectivity dialog shows "connected", however the connection is dead. and it stays "connected" in the dialog no matter how often I hit disconnect Jul 30 12:37:13 PaulFertser: :( is it a specially patched IRC client thats used? Jul 30 12:38:12 Kamping_Kaiser: I'm looking forward to a UMTS/HSDPA freerunner ;0 Jul 30 12:38:38 jaj: I hope my wait ends first ;) Jul 30 12:38:44 Kamping_Kaiser: where are you? Jul 30 12:38:44 Kamping_Kaiser: no Jul 30 12:38:54 SpeedEvil: AU Jul 30 12:39:00 Ah. Jul 30 12:39:11 Kamping_Kaiser: I've heard it's not the best country internet wise. Jul 30 12:39:41 SpeedEvil: it is ... poor. (Obviously theres worse. much worse. but not in the west) Jul 30 12:40:00 s/not in/not many in/ Jul 30 12:40:01 Kamping_Kaiser meant: SpeedEvil: it is ... poor. (Obviously theres worse. much worse. but not many in the west) Jul 30 12:40:06 BTW, guys, here same assholes in telcos round traffic _up_ to 100k every hour, so even irc is not that cheap. Jul 30 12:40:09 * Kamping_Kaiser slaps apt Jul 30 12:40:37 PaulFertser: thats ... rude. Jul 30 12:41:00 * SpeedEvil is somewhat glad he's in scotland. Jul 30 12:41:29 (GPRS capped at a pound a day, and no payment at all if I don't use it Jul 30 12:41:35 Kamping_Kaiser: we usually use more strong expressions to describe such behaviour ;) Jul 30 12:42:14 hehe Jul 30 12:43:56 oh I have another question, what would be the best way to make the raw GSM modem available to a connected computer Jul 30 12:44:24 jaj: i'd say socat Jul 30 12:44:30 on the wiki they talk about pppd but I'm not sure how that should work, I'm not aware of any forwarding/proxy feature in ppd Jul 30 12:45:20 jaj: why do you want to forward the serial port? Jul 30 12:45:47 jaj: but i tell you, i used socat successfully to expose serial port via tcp socket. Jul 30 12:46:13 PaulFertser: just to play around with it Jul 30 13:02:38 ok, I just found out that the matchbox terminal keyboard doesn't have an escape button Jul 30 13:02:52 now how and I supposed to save and quit in vi... :) Jul 30 13:03:07 jaj: no esc? Jul 30 13:03:09 yes it does Jul 30 13:03:12 bottom right iirc Jul 30 13:03:12 jaj: i'm sure i used it before Jul 30 13:03:54 PaulFertser: oh indeed, thanks, little small button bottom right labeled 'es' Jul 30 13:04:26 At first i thought that i don't need no espaniol keyboard too ;) Jul 30 13:05:28 yeah :) Jul 30 13:06:01 i'm quite ignorant of uSD spec - is it expected that it writes 1/3rd the speed it reads at? Jul 30 13:06:40 yes Jul 30 13:06:41 often Jul 30 13:06:53 ok, I wont worry. thanks :) Jul 30 13:06:54 Flash in general has slower write than reads Jul 30 13:14:14 is it possible to stop the keyboard making the keys bigger as you type them? Its driving me spare ;( Jul 30 13:16:39 Kamping_Kaiser: only by editing the theme (edje_decc, edit, build.sh...) Jul 30 13:17:22 PaulFertser: hm... I'm almost at that point, but not quite. Jul 30 13:22:53 hey all Jul 30 13:23:12 is there some place to keep tabs on shr unstable's current status? Jul 30 13:24:16 so that I know whether or not it's "safe" to run opkg upgrade Jul 30 13:30:43 so, i have read the wiki, looking for opinions on the current om2009 ui Jul 30 14:11:29 openmoko: 03werner * r5341 10/developers/werner/fped/ (14 files): Jul 30 14:11:29 openmoko: - added limit for loop iterations Jul 30 14:11:29 openmoko: - added structures for marking active instances Jul 30 14:11:29 openmoko: - added selection and the corresponding markup (on-going) Jul 30 14:11:29 openmoko: - lines were drawn with the wrong y0 coordinate Jul 30 14:11:31 openmoko: - reorganized gui_style and changed color scheme Jul 30 14:11:33 openmoko: - changed qfp.fpd to generate objects only once Jul 30 14:17:10 hello Jul 30 14:17:15 hey there Jul 30 14:32:19 Hello, world. Jul 30 14:32:40 * SpeedEvil answers for the whole world, and says hello. Jul 30 14:56:50 anyone using shr-unstable? Jul 30 14:59:16 yep Jul 30 15:05:04 hi Jul 30 15:12:18 stongo: I use SHR-U. Jul 30 15:12:54 So why has no-one built xkill for the FR yet?? :'( Jul 30 15:17:04 Digital_Pioneer: debian built that ages ago :) Jul 30 15:17:18 lindi_: Gimme a binary! :P Jul 30 15:17:31 Digital_Pioneer: i thought you wanted to build it Jul 30 15:17:47 I can't build stuff for FR. Jul 30 15:18:06 Digital_Pioneer: ok, i don't really want to start sending binaries Jul 30 15:18:23 *Sigh* OK. Jul 30 15:18:23 unless there's a really good reason :) Jul 30 15:18:35 you can get it from ftp.debian.org Jul 30 15:18:39 That'll work Jul 30 15:22:53 I can't get wifi to work on shr-unstable to save my life Jul 30 15:23:07 i'm using the july 21 image Jul 30 15:23:15 stongo: It's difficult. First things first, make sure wifi is on in shr-settings. :) Jul 30 15:23:22 yes, I did that Jul 30 15:23:26 I Jul 30 15:23:31 I'm using mokoconnect Jul 30 15:23:35 it just times out Jul 30 15:23:48 I tried an older version (july 10) with mofi and it didn't work either Jul 30 15:24:14 not sure if I need to put a wpa_supplicant.conf file in /etc/wpa_supplicant or not Jul 30 15:24:18 theren's not one there now Jul 30 15:24:30 stongo: what kernel? Jul 30 15:24:42 the latest unstable kernel Jul 30 15:24:58 stongo: sorry that does not tell me much Jul 30 15:25:04 one sec Jul 30 15:25:18 stongo: git hash or link to source would Jul 30 15:25:38 uImage-2.6.29-oe10+gitr119823+d1c828aa7073b356207b967e394defb26ab4da82-r3.5-om-gta02.bin Jul 30 15:26:02 I just saw there's a new kernel that came out on the 28th.. haven't tried that yet. Jul 30 15:26:16 stongo: ok, you need http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/attachment/ticket/2277/wifi_ifupdown.patch Jul 30 15:27:29 lindi: thanks, i appreciate it!!! Jul 30 15:40:48 I've noticed the FR's DHCP client sucks. It almost never works. Jul 30 15:42:47 lindi: do you know where the ar6000 drivers are mentioned in that wifi_updown.patch? i don't have access to my desktop and need to just apply the patch manually through FR terminal Jul 30 15:43:26 "find" isn't finding the mentioned file to patch Jul 30 15:47:53 I'm really wondering why the freerunner is so slow. I mean opening a vte based terminal would probably be 10 times faster on a 133 MHz Pentium I. Is it really a performance problem? Jul 30 15:48:28 or is it an optimisation limit? perhaps gtk does a lot of floating point or something Jul 30 15:48:40 jaj: Pretty much everything on the FR is in Python these days. That acrues overhead. Jul 30 15:48:57 IDK how much overhead it accounts for, but it'll definitely make some. Jul 30 15:48:58 yeah Jul 30 15:51:33 perhaps I can write a user interface in a mixture of ruby and java :) Jul 30 15:52:39 I don't see why you couldn't, though I don't think ruby or java are in any distros by default... Maybe Java. Jul 30 15:53:46 no I was being ironical Jul 30 15:54:13 by chosing the only 2 languages I could think of that would be even slower than python :) Jul 30 15:54:32 Hahahahah Jul 30 15:55:59 IDK how slow Python is, really, but at least it can be compiled to a bytecode. Jul 30 16:09:09 So... I can't get Mokonnect to show any wireless networks at all. If I SSH in and iwlist eth0 scan, I see 2. Jul 30 16:09:31 I assume any that are found should show up in the "Scan Complete" window in Mokonnect... Jul 30 16:16:25 personally I would write a dialer in ncurses, it would be beautiful, it would be very easy to write in C Jul 30 16:18:01 but of course I will not criticize the great work that has been done, especially since I didn't contribute any code Jul 30 16:19:44 a minimalistic tiling window manager would be great, especially for dividing the screen when the keyboard pops up and so on Jul 30 16:20:09 a clean xterm with ncurses applications, it would be fantastic Jul 30 16:24:17 someone did that Jul 30 16:24:48 I forget his nick, and his name, but he has a horse. Jul 30 16:25:00 Ah. Pavel Machek (sp?) Jul 30 16:25:22 he has a horse? :) Jul 30 16:26:26 http://pavelmachek.livejournal.com/ Jul 30 16:29:21 horse as in motorbike? :o Jul 30 16:29:45 No. Jul 30 18:06:48 hi Jul 30 18:17:24 hi all, is there someone who know where to get the kernel source of a certain kernel ( f19f259d3c1afde8eae53983fd19f61831927413-r3-om-gta02.bin ) ? Jul 30 18:18:04 [ i would like to change some kernel parameters] Jul 30 18:18:12 edje, go to the kernel's git repo Jul 30 18:18:26 and get this commit? :) Jul 30 18:19:00 so it seems. any idea on how to get this commit ? Jul 30 18:22:06 edje: are you familiar with git? Jul 30 18:23:06 no, not really Jul 30 18:23:36 edje: i'm afraid you need to learn it Jul 30 18:24:11 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git <-- kernel's git repo Jul 30 18:24:13 have fun. Jul 30 18:24:46 thanks ! Jul 30 18:27:57 hmm. i am not sure which part of the filename i need. if you look at http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/testing/NeoFreerunner, what would the url bee for this particular kernel? Jul 30 18:28:25 i tried f19f259d3c1afde8eae53983fd19f61831927413 but that doesn;t work Jul 30 18:47:24 bitches Jul 30 18:48:00 anyway, phone back from buzzfix repair, but volume of person of FR end is very low, even after adjusting mic volumes. hm. Jul 30 19:34:22 hmm, how do you compile stuff on the freerunner in SHR? Jul 30 19:34:47 do you specify CC=/usr/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc AS=/usr/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-as and all the other stuff by hand? Jul 30 19:34:51 or is there some magic? Jul 30 19:37:16 jaj, depend on what you trying to compile Jul 30 19:37:22 usually no any CC required Jul 30 19:37:38 and AS and similar really never required Jul 30 19:38:09 configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH Jul 30 19:40:07 may be you don't installed some important packages Jul 30 19:40:15 I suggest start from simole hello.c Jul 30 19:40:23 and compile it with gcc Jul 30 19:41:09 max_posedon: gcc probably works fine, the configure script just doesn't find it because it has a strange name Jul 30 19:42:00 jaj: you need gcc-symlinks Jul 30 19:42:02 install gcc-symlinks Jul 30 19:42:13 but I really suggest hello.c with printf Jul 30 19:42:18 nd binutils-symlinks Jul 30 19:42:20 and* Jul 30 19:42:39 oh great -symlinks, that's what I was looking for, thanks Jul 30 19:42:43 and libc-dev may be, many stuff to test Jul 30 19:45:04 max_posedon: yeah but I'll find that out very soon from the error messages :) Jul 30 19:45:59 configure still will continue same exactly same error message with many errors Jul 30 19:46:58 max_posedon: compiling hello world works Jul 30 19:47:22 nice), ok Jul 30 19:49:09 I come from an OS that comes with a ready to use toolchain by default and doesn't seperate packages into main and -dev so I take the ability to build stuff for granted, I'm not used to setting up this kind of stuff :) Jul 30 19:50:01 Yes, but try fitting a full blown Fedora on FR. Jul 30 19:50:03 well you might find hackable:1 a more accessible development environment if you're wanting to do on-device development Jul 30 19:50:15 anyway, RPM blows goats Jul 30 19:50:25 which is basically debian with most common dev stuff already installed Jul 30 19:50:42 jaj, I suggest just cross compile in this case) Jul 30 19:50:42 jaj: then you want to hack on Gentoo for FR. Jul 30 19:50:46 Elleo: I'll take a look at it Jul 30 19:50:49 or many be even swith to Gentoo) Jul 30 19:50:51 max_posedon: knows how to do that ;) Jul 30 19:51:03 h:1 wasn't being developed much a few months ago. has it been picked up again? Jul 30 19:51:21 PaulFertser: no, gentoo is waste in resources Jul 30 19:51:22 dunno, I haven't really followed it much Jul 30 19:51:46 jaj: it looked like your OS description. Jul 30 19:51:47 jaj, this is why I say, `crosscompile` Jul 30 19:52:05 compilation on Freerunner is a PITA anyway Jul 30 19:52:13 yea olde newbie-wants-to-native-compile argument Jul 30 19:52:34 max_posedon: yeah but I just wanted to compile that tiny little program which doesn't have any dependencies on the FR :) Jul 30 19:52:43 PaulFertser: I'm an openbsd user actually Jul 30 19:52:54 All programs have dependencies, unless you're writing pure assembler Jul 30 19:53:06 and not making system calls Jul 30 19:53:24 jaj: :D Jul 30 19:53:29 Chocky: you know what I meant ;) Jul 30 19:53:47 Chocky, simple calc without input and/or output?) Jul 30 19:54:14 well, not really. The sitution is probably a lot more complication than you think, it's just that you don't usually have to think about these things Jul 30 19:54:20 max_posedon: what about it? Jul 30 19:54:33 socat should "just build" with a working toolchain an glibc-dev Jul 30 19:54:40 just example of program on C, which doesn't have deps Jul 30 19:55:01 max_posedon: I think you should think harder about that. Jul 30 19:55:04 int main() { int a = 10; a *= 3; return a; } Jul 30 19:55:20 max_posedon: needs libc Jul 30 19:55:41 jaj, nope Jul 30 19:55:57 only crt.o which comes from gcc Jul 30 19:56:39 that's not a "calculator", that's a program that returns the value 30. Jul 30 19:56:48 which is pretty pointless when I could do "return 30" in bash Jul 30 19:56:52 s/bash/sh/ Jul 30 19:56:53 Chocky meant: which is pretty pointless when I could do "return 30" in sh Jul 30 19:56:56 max_posedon: that's a purely functional program :) Jul 30 19:57:23 Chocky, you can add not so easy actions Jul 30 19:57:52 you can't do anything meaningful without libc Jul 30 19:58:09 or that wouldn't be highly contrived and easier in shell Jul 30 19:58:29 Chocky: you can reimplement libc in your program Jul 30 19:58:47 so yes, like I said, there are such examples, but almost all of them are highly contrived, and almost entirely irrelevant to the discussion Jul 30 19:59:00 to argue like that ad nasuem is not very clever Jul 30 19:59:14 Chocky: you actually started the discussion Jul 30 19:59:22 no, I didn't Jul 30 19:59:34 but that's a pretty childish response Jul 30 20:02:05 but backing up, cross compiling is much better - at least in theory. It's a shame that OE can make it so tedious sometimes. Jul 30 20:02:46 any every freaking program has its own build system, which may or may not need patching so it understands cross compiling properly. Jul 30 20:03:45 Chocky: can you cross-compile emacs? OE folks failed to do that :( Jul 30 20:04:03 Chocky: automagician is needed to make it possible... Jul 30 20:04:13 paulproteus: I don't know. I tried many years ago, but I don't recall the problems except that it was very complicated Jul 30 20:04:24 gah s/pp/pf/ Jul 30 20:04:50 socat built and installed :) Jul 30 20:04:52 I did the ARM port of OpenOffice 1.1 years ago. That most certainly didn't cross compile. But those are both notable exceptions. Jul 30 20:05:18 Chocky: the problem is bootstrapping. You need to build native bootstrap emacs first, then with that you need to compile some .el's and then you need to build native "real" emacs, recompile all .el's again and then build cross-executable finally. Jul 30 20:05:44 PaulFertser: right, I'm sure. Not entirely unusual, but a PITA. Jul 30 20:05:59 Like building a native GCC Jul 30 20:06:57 Chocky: i don't have an idea how to do that with autofoo :( Crosscompiling gcc is easier as it has quite limited set of C files that must be compiled on host, so they just use some prefix for native ones and specify everything explicitely. Jul 30 20:07:02 Probably about 10% of programs require a native equivalent first, but you can normally rely on the native -dev packages for that. Jul 30 20:08:16 PaulFertser: I would expect to run autoconf first natively, save the binary, then run autconf with cross options. But it might be more complex for eamcs. Jul 30 20:08:43 Chocky: hm, haven't thought of that yet. Jul 30 20:08:57 Chocky: probably if i have enough time and motivation one day... Jul 30 20:09:06 Chocky, wrong way Jul 30 20:09:18 I think I'd prefer to use nano on the whole. Went off emacs a while ago. Jul 30 20:09:18 OE and Gentoo use different way Jul 30 20:09:24 Chocky: to me it looks like emacs is one of the most promising environments for the FR so i need to have it easily accessible for everybody. Jul 30 20:09:34 thay don't run configure nativly Jul 30 20:09:38 Chocky: nano! No fucking way ever! Jul 30 20:09:53 but already provide many checks already Jul 30 20:10:03 max_posedon: I think you're misunderstanding some of the details. Jul 30 20:10:05 so packages can respect them Jul 30 20:10:47 "native configure" in my context means the host system. So you can e.g. build x86 binaries first. Jul 30 20:10:48 I - understanding, I maintaining Gentoo Openmoko overlay, and know how to cross compile most apps) Jul 30 20:11:03 max_posedon++ Jul 30 20:11:04 bully for you. Jul 30 20:11:35 yes, I know that sometimes it required. but `autoconf natively` wrong way to go. Jul 30 20:11:42 max_posedon: but that's cheating too. It's supposed that proper cross-compile can be done with pure autotools (given proper configuration). Jul 30 20:11:47 look at OE, and their site-config Jul 30 20:11:49 I was an early OE developer, and former boss was a project lead for it. About the same time, I started a cross system for another ARM OS. Jul 30 20:11:59 max_posedon: as I say, you are completely misunderstanding. Jul 30 20:12:11 may be, I bet I'll re-read your messages) Jul 30 20:12:37 * Chocky is well aware of what OE does. It's also exactly what my system does. Jul 30 20:16:07 * Chocky waits forever for opkg upgrade. Jul 30 20:16:31 or more to the point, opkg upgrade on individual packages, so opkg everything doesn't bomb out Jul 30 20:16:50 and why does the SHR build have -dev packages in it? Jul 30 20:24:08 good grief, 26 openmoko Facebook pages Jul 30 20:24:41 openmoko: 03werner * r5342 10/developers/werner/fped/ (12 files): (log message trimmed) Jul 30 20:24:41 openmoko: - added commit/revert logic for instantiation Jul 30 20:24:41 openmoko: - obj.c: renamed "res" to more specific "ok" Jul 30 20:24:41 openmoko: - display parameters of selected object Jul 30 20:24:41 openmoko: - converted frame list from GtkTreeView to GtkScrolledWindow with vbox Jul 30 20:24:44 openmoko: - corrected logic of setting an instance active Jul 30 20:24:46 openmoko: - adjusted colors for better contrast Jul 30 20:25:48 Chocky, I suggest add swap file during opkg update Jul 30 20:25:57 and don't run update per/package Jul 30 20:26:03