**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 14 02:59:57 2009 Sep 14 04:56:24 any advice for dealing with complaints about static on calls? Sep 14 05:09:19 put them in header files and expose the api calls cleanly then. Sep 14 05:11:37 heh Sep 14 05:21:10 * johnsu01 thinks raster thinks this is -cdevel Sep 14 05:42:34 johnsu01: coding should b a prerequisite of internet licenses. in order to get on the internt u have to b able to code. properly. no coding. no internet. :) Sep 14 05:46:36 but I'm talking about call quality! Sep 14 05:48:24 i know that! Sep 14 05:48:40 'i was taking the opportunity to have some fun and games :) Sep 14 05:52:37 well, header files it is then Sep 14 06:07:19 :-P~ Sep 14 06:07:20 :)_ Sep 14 07:02:10 raster, you're evil XD Sep 14 07:02:24 raster, just because you write e doesn't mean you get to lurk irc and brag people XD Sep 14 07:02:31 raster, I switched to e btw ^^ Sep 14 07:05:02 * cz_jc avoids static calls whenever possible though Sep 14 07:17:23 cz_jc: hahahahahahahah Sep 14 07:17:42 raster, whaaat now ? :D Sep 14 07:17:49 i dont brag. i just prefer to try and push the clue meter up a bit by encouraging people :) Sep 14 07:18:38 nb - static calls are good Sep 14 07:18:38 keeps your symbol table down and linking speeds up Sep 14 07:18:38 also avoids silly symbol conflicts Sep 14 07:18:42 Guys, news about BFS: Sep 14 07:18:45 CFS that is mainline has a knob that makes it behave as good as BFS: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=125260525104922&w=3 Sep 14 07:18:56 raster, and keeps your code huge :P Sep 14 07:19:01 I mean when compiled Sep 14 07:19:18 raster, on a thing like AVR, you don't get away with it easily Sep 14 07:20:45 raster, while we're at it.. I like illume.. but I like the filemanager module and its desktop way more.. Sep 14 07:20:45 PaulFertser: yay! knobs! Sep 14 07:20:56 raster, for example, flash drives show up there to be unmounted and such ^^ Sep 14 07:20:57 raster: the more the merrier :) Sep 14 07:21:23 raster, but when e starts on my fr, the illume launcher overlay 'gets over' the fm desktop Sep 14 07:21:42 raster, I solved this by removing all icons from /usr/share/applications and putting them to my ~/Desktop Sep 14 07:21:58 cz_jc: errr well if u are copying and pasting funcs all over - sure, but static involves it being private to that file which is normally good and desireable. if i ant it available outide i'll explicitly do api work to make it a subsystem and thus have it in .h's and available outside Sep 14 07:21:58 but I still have to reset filemanager after every start to make the icons clickable which is very annoying Sep 14 07:22:11 raster, any idea how to disable illume launcher ? Sep 14 07:22:20 i like -fvisibility=hidden. quite awesome in keeping you on the ball Sep 14 07:22:32 * cz_jc tried decompiling all the settings files and didn't find anything Sep 14 07:23:14 as for launcher4 - it wasnt designed to be "gotten around" like you do.. so... no - it cant be disabled. illume is a big single chunk of module Sep 14 07:23:21 its an all-or-nothing deal Sep 14 07:23:53 raster, aah.. too bad.. I really like filemanager Sep 14 07:23:58 :( Sep 14 07:24:12 i'm splitting illume - stealing some bits ofis codeand re-doing it in illume2 in svn Sep 14 07:24:16 but its useless for anyone atm Sep 14 07:24:22 raster, I have svn e :) Sep 14 07:24:24 and i'm busy on elementary right now Sep 14 07:25:24 raster, I think if there were official docs, elementary would be the thing of choice for doing guis on fr :) Sep 14 07:25:49 raster, unfortunately as it is, gtk with glade is just 'too easy' to ignore Sep 14 07:26:18 raster, anyway carry on, you do a great work :) Sep 14 07:28:40 there are Sep 14 07:28:44 have u tried "make doc" Sep 14 07:28:45 ? Sep 14 07:28:59 look in doc/html Sep 14 07:29:01 etc. Sep 14 07:29:12 sure - not all is documented but some chunk is Sep 14 07:29:14 and... Sep 14 07:29:34 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary Sep 14 07:33:45 raster, aah.. didn't.. thx Sep 14 07:35:26 again - not full docs, but it gts you started. as of this week there's an elementary gnerator in svn - it generates your initial code Sep 14 07:35:47 can be based from templates. it's not totally pretty right now, and needs work, but its started Sep 14 07:36:02 raster, can you skech up guis like with glade ? Sep 14 07:36:10 *sketch Sep 14 07:36:44 I think it'd be a killer feature.. in combination with python, that would allow complete amateurs write gui for about anything they can imagine Sep 14 07:38:54 no - just start u with a template Sep 14 07:39:08 it gets the autofoo and initial file up ala glade Sep 14 07:39:13 no gui building tho Sep 14 07:39:20 that might be a while Sep 14 07:39:53 it's not really an amateur thing - to be honest, i'd prefer to filter them out. Sep 14 07:40:12 but it's a matter of saving time and effort even if u know what u are doing Sep 14 07:40:13 raster, I think amateurs should be able to make stupid gadgets, iphone style :) Sep 14 07:40:27 raster: is somewhere explained how alignment and with is working exactly? currently i'm making gui's with try and error ;) Sep 14 07:40:31 u just dont want to re-has the same old "boilerplate" code. Sep 14 07:40:54 raster: hey. I know you lived in Japan for some time. Can you possibly explain me why the hell my good buddy, an ordinary russian guy who studied maths and unix at our university moved to japan and doesn't want to look back? Sep 14 07:40:57 Heinervdm: its simple. align alins withint the available space if 0.0 -> 1.0 Sep 14 07:41:14 0.0 is left? Sep 14 07:41:14 if -1.0 it acts as a fill flag (fill the available space) Sep 14 07:41:18 left or top Sep 14 07:41:22 1.0 is right or bottom Sep 14 07:41:50 raster: ah -1.0 fills the screen, i thought it would be width 1.0 Sep 14 07:42:00 no Sep 14 07:42:07 good to know :) Sep 14 07:42:16 sine -1.0 is a "useless" value for align Sep 14 07:42:23 its piggybacked for fill flags Sep 14 07:42:24 :) Sep 14 07:42:37 wieght is used to determine if it expands and how much of the space it is allocated Sep 14 07:42:43 g 0.0 will have it not get allocated anything Sep 14 07:43:06 1.0 will have a weight of 1.0 expand, but differing weights will make different items expand different amounts Sep 14 07:43:50 cz_jc: i'd rather keep them doing their javascript/html gadgets that consume half your memory for one of them. Sep 14 07:44:01 until they get more clue Sep 14 07:44:03 raster: ok, thx for explanation Sep 14 07:44:24 PaulFertser: japan is a nice place. tho even i left :) Sep 14 07:44:34 raster, oh btw in the checkout I tried tray icon plugin for illume, doesn't work (it shows a bunch under the illume bar if I recall correctly Sep 14 07:45:00 its clean, safe, organised. fast internet. polite and friendly people. u can get anything you want there. Sep 14 07:45:01 raster, I got around that by creating a shelf with a tray icon plugin and moving it over illume bar Sep 14 07:45:09 raster: i've heard everybody is mad working there and having no real fun except some mad parties. That nobody cares about anybody etc... Sep 14 07:45:21 cz_jc: hver tested it Sep 14 07:45:40 cz_jc: not too surprised. tray icons are simply incompatible with efl Sep 14 07:45:53 as they are real windows u have to swallow/manage like apps Sep 14 07:45:58 i can go on. i won't Sep 14 07:46:16 raster, point is, they work in illume but they get shown in the wrong place :) Sep 14 07:46:41 cz_jc: hmm no. working varies wildly from person to person, company to company. people do care. depends on your friends Sep 14 07:46:44 you can even move the pluhin horizontally and the rectangle with tray icon below moves with it Sep 14 07:47:03 cz_jc: as i said. not surprising. Sep 14 07:49:26 raster, btw unfortunately, people can't hack up html/js gadgetry on fr very easily Sep 14 07:49:43 raster, so they stick with pygtk and glade which is really ugly Sep 14 07:50:26 raster, sometimes you get people who are very smart in terms of a subject that concerns an app they want to make but very dumb in terms of coding.. thats just the way it is Sep 14 07:50:53 raster, like I dunno, GUI designers on airliners Sep 14 07:51:35 raster, the programmers would never do the gui right and consider all human factors involved Sep 14 07:51:52 raster, the people who get to draw them up are psychologists and such Sep 14 07:52:11 raster, thats where pre-hacked tools come in for them.. Sep 14 08:04:44 Guys, i advice you to try this to improve interactivity: Sep 14 08:05:01 mkdir /debug; mount -t debugfs none /debug; echo NO_NEW_FAIR_SLEEPERS > /debug/sched_features Sep 14 08:05:12 It's reported it gives huge advantages, the same as BFS. Sep 14 08:14:58 but does it? Sep 14 08:16:16 raster: it does. Ingo even disabled it by default in his tree. Sep 14 08:17:54 describe how its better? Sep 14 08:18:28 indeed, how? Sep 14 08:19:36 raster: well, it's hard to paraphrase a long LKML thread in a few words... gimme 2 min. Sep 14 08:21:53 hmm i was hoping u'd tried it and have results Sep 14 08:21:54 I just tried it and haven't really noticed a difference Sep 14 08:21:58 eg "scrolling is much smoother" Sep 14 08:22:12 "sliders react more smoothly" Sep 14 08:22:12 raster: it's supposed that this switch solves all these problems: http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/9/6/230 Sep 14 08:22:18 "animations jerk much less" Sep 14 08:22:19 etc. Sep 14 08:22:47 ndnihil: noticed nothing? Sep 14 08:23:04 well, scrolling -might- be better Sep 14 08:23:09 I have animations disabled Sep 14 08:24:04 k Sep 14 08:24:07 hrm, xmahjongg seems to start a bit more quickly Sep 14 08:24:28 trying midori now Sep 14 08:24:33 it's usually pretty brutal Sep 14 08:24:35 souns like the policy chnagein cfs is much better Sep 14 08:24:43 smell;s to me like that should be the default for linux Sep 14 08:25:20 ok wait Sep 14 08:25:25 that mail is about bfs bhavior Sep 14 08:25:35 not NO_NEW_FAIR_SLEEPERS Sep 14 08:25:39 raster: yes, bfs discussion brought life to a new testing tool Sep 14 08:25:51 raster: which in turn allowed to analise the performance about CFS Sep 14 08:25:51 sure Sep 14 08:26:14 raster: and bugginess of new fair sleepers was discovered. With them off, it's reported to be as good as BFS. Sep 14 08:26:15 tho i could have told u that userspace suffers from erratice kernel schedulinbg Sep 14 08:26:28 and theres fuck-all that can be done about it without kernel improvements Sep 14 08:26:43 anything that animates or does realtime audio is going to show it Sep 14 08:28:09 scrolling is still jumpy, but it's a more consistent/smooth jumpy Sep 14 08:28:13 if that makes any sense Sep 14 08:31:29 ok Sep 14 08:31:36 it's noticeable with numptyphysics Sep 14 08:31:41 definitely smoother Sep 14 08:33:47 nice tip PaulFertser Sep 14 08:34:04 one step closer to being usable :) Sep 14 08:56:38 ndnihil: hehe, reading that long thread wasn't complete waste of my working hours after all :) Sep 14 08:59:51 hi all. my FR no longer rings when receiving a call. i believe i read somewhere this can occur when a certain app is run which messes with the sound drivers? it's the shr-unstable distro i'm using. can somebody confirm that it is due to a certain app and where on the wiki the info is to correct the problem? i've been searching through the shr manual and other parts of the wiki but I'm blowed if i can find the info i' Sep 14 08:59:52 m sure i read! Sep 14 09:01:59 djp`: is it up-to-date unstable? Sep 14 09:02:16 djp`: probably it's speech-dispatcher or some shit like that Sep 14 09:02:35 PaulFertser, i installed it roughly a week ago Sep 14 09:03:02 PaulFertser: yes, i'm sure i've read somewhere that a certain app can cause it Sep 14 09:03:31 PaulFertser: i'm hunting bthrough the wiki right now, trying to locate the piece i read Sep 14 09:06:11 djp`: i guess it was speech-dispatcher or some other old oss app. Sep 14 09:08:12 PaulFertser: do you know how i get the received call to ring again? is it just a matter of editing the sound level settings again under /usr/share/scenarii/gsmhandset.state ? Sep 14 09:10:38 djp`: no, nothing should have changed it without your will. Sep 14 09:10:47 djp`: try aplay some wav, does it work? Sep 14 09:12:33 PaulFertser: let me try Sep 14 09:17:08 PaulFertser: i'll need to throw a sound file onto the FR. by the way, i found the piece i read on the wiki by doing a search. it is something about there being no sound after installing navit. Sep 14 09:17:28 djp`: yes, due to the speech-dispatcher as i've told you several times already. Sep 14 09:17:35 PaulFertser: however it appears that the entry has been removed from the shr user manual. Sep 14 09:18:04 PaulFertser: ah, sorry Paul. didn't know the two were connected. apologies. Sep 14 09:18:57 djp`: np Sep 14 09:32:58 openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5640 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (docs/ecn/STATUS wlan.sch): Apply ECN0035, and fix C8004,C8005 footprint Sep 14 09:33:24 PaulFertser: i've found the piece on speech-dispatcher and run the command update-rc.d -f speech-dispatcher remove. however, how do i edit /usr/bin/navit? it says i need to edit this file but when i open it. it's unreadable? Sep 14 09:33:56 djp`: no, do not edit it. Sep 14 09:34:13 djp`: who says you need to edit it? Sep 14 09:35:20 PaulFertser: zappi mentions that "... so i add to the navit start script at /usr/bin/mnavit two things. at the top of the file i'd add..." Sep 14 09:36:00 PaulFertser: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit#Speech Sep 14 09:37:04 PaulFertser: Quote from above link, "And then edit /usr/bin/navit, so that it starts speech-dispatcher befoere navit, and stops it afterwards." Sep 14 09:37:32 djp`: do not use speech-dispatcher at all Sep 14 09:38:49 PaulFertser: i see. so by running the command "update-rc.d -f speech-dispatcher remove" will that have stopped speech-dispatcher? Sep 14 09:39:17 djp`: wait for some other guys who know more about navit or read about that stuff in mailing list archives or the like. Sep 14 09:39:43 PaulFertser: ok. thanks. Sep 14 09:52:32 PaulFertser: thanks for your help. for now, after running the "update-rc.d -f speech-dispatcher remove" command and restarting my FR, sound is now working properly again. Sep 14 09:53:28 djp`: welcome Sep 14 10:47:39 just got a freerunner (won from magazine, so not sure which revision, or how much the played/tested/reviewed it). i put in uSD, SIM and battery, plugged into USB, and now it have been showing an openmoko splash screen for about 5 mins. what should i do now? Sep 14 10:48:03 rejoice! Sep 14 10:48:14 Or alternatively, you might try flashing a new OS on it Sep 14 10:48:33 so that means it has no OS? Sep 14 10:48:36 After first turning it off, and leaving it charging for an hourish to see if that fixes it Sep 14 10:48:49 low battery can do odd stuff. Sep 14 10:49:06 how do i turn it off? (feel like a noob) Sep 14 10:49:14 Npo - if you've got a splash - there is something on there - but debugging what it's doing and why it's doing it - may be more complex Sep 14 10:49:29 If the power button doesn't work - pull the USB, pull the battery Sep 14 10:49:48 It could for example have been setup to boot from SD Sep 14 10:50:00 i tried the power button. i'll try removing usb and bat. thanks. Sep 14 10:50:33 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release Sep 14 10:51:39 i when i put the bat and usb back it started booting :-) Sep 14 10:52:15 ssam: what do you want to do? Sep 14 10:52:18 reflash Sep 14 10:52:22 or sth else? Sep 14 10:52:49 well - see what's there ATM Sep 14 10:52:53 yeah, i put SHR on it. i think i can follow the wiki for that. thanks Sep 14 10:53:24 Also - #openmoko-cdevel Sep 14 11:02:34 Revision:0360, that is A6, pre buzfix right? Sep 14 11:03:13 /etc/issue says angstrom, Openmoko P1-Snapshot-20080418 Sep 14 11:03:28 Linux om-gta02 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Thu Apr 24 08:23:36 CST 2008 armv4tl unknown Sep 14 11:39:15 ssam: revision can't tell you bout buzzfix Sep 14 11:40:02 ssam: .24 really is outdated Sep 14 11:40:50 ssam: get shr-U, image of 2009-08-08 (or newer) Sep 14 11:41:05 i am flashing shr now :-) Sep 14 11:41:11 ssam: get matching uImage (kernel) Sep 14 11:41:43 i'm following the wiki Sep 14 12:33:54 hi Sep 14 14:00:03 does anyone know how i could exclude files without extension in git so that they are ignored? i have some unwanted extensions in my .gitignore but how do i exclude files when there is no extension and the name varies :) Sep 14 15:28:39 Hi everyone Sep 14 15:28:43 how are you? Sep 14 15:34:04 I'm using SHR Unstable version 08-08-09, I did opkg upgrade two days ago and after a while, the ringtones doesn't sound anymore Sep 14 15:34:20 and I can't get any sound either in intone Sep 14 15:35:07 someone has experienced this before, now how to solve this? I was looking on alsamixer and there isn't muted channels Sep 14 15:36:22 Cristianpark: no speech-dispatcher running i hope? Sep 14 15:40:01 Cristianpark: insert and remove headset Sep 14 15:40:54 Paul: I can't understand your question, I'm not english speaker, let me search about speech-dispatcher, there is a easy way to know if it is running? Sep 14 15:41:12 ps ax Sep 14 15:41:46 Cristianpark: you installed navit? Sep 14 15:42:26 DocScrutinizer: Yes, I run the post-installation script that recommends in the Wiki Sep 14 15:42:57 that invokes speech-dispatcher, which in turn breaks audio Sep 14 15:43:01 Cristianpark: ensure the fucking speech-dispatcher is not running Sep 14 15:43:35 real mature Sep 14 15:43:48 someone got out of bed the wrong side? Sep 14 15:45:00 I'm going to uninstall navit and see if it solves the Issue, thanks Sep 14 15:47:27 Cristianpark: please use direct piping of navit audio into aplay, instead of speech-dispatcher. (speech-dispatcher and) ESD are deprecated and completely useless Sep 14 15:47:43 Cristianpark: just do "opkg remove speech-dispatcher -force-depends", no need for removing navit Sep 14 15:49:19 dos1: should i still boot shr twice after first flashing? Sep 14 15:49:23 Guys you're awesome, that worked inmediatly, I have sound again :D Sep 14 15:49:38 PaulFertser: dunno, probably yes Sep 14 15:49:41 :( Sep 14 15:50:16 DocScrutinizer: how can i do the piping of navit audio into aplay? sorry if very noob question Sep 14 15:50:56 Cristianpark: you had sound before as well. Just only of navit which via ESD and /dev/dsp occupied your complete audio system exclusively ;-) Sep 14 15:55:17 dos1 sybren: with navit i'm using espeak writing to stdout and piping it to aplay - :P Sep 14 15:55:36 DocScrutinizer: just as me ;) Sep 14 15:55:57 well, i think i was first with that configuration on freerunner :D Sep 14 15:55:59 dos1: will you help? lazy dog ;-) Sep 14 15:56:07 DocScrutinizer: nah, i'm too lazy Sep 14 15:56:08 ;) Sep 14 15:56:28 http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:7WLQYIuAFZ4J:ibot.rikers.org/%2523openmoko/20090627.html.gz+navit+esd+aplay+shr&cd=4&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de Sep 14 15:56:50 Sep 14 15:56:59 Cristianpark: ^^^^ Sep 14 15:57:05 Cristianpark: change pl to your language Sep 14 15:57:22 Cristianpark: I'd think about the -v pl part ;-) Sep 14 15:57:26 hehe Sep 14 15:57:55 dos1: Thanks for the page Sep 14 15:58:11 DocsScrutinizer: I'll think about it Sep 14 15:58:23 loƱ Sep 14 15:58:33 => lol Sep 14 15:59:15 maybe someone should fix that darn wiki Sep 14 16:03:13 DocScrutinizer: I totally agree with you. I'm a noob with the FR, i only played with the USBNetworking, installed SHR, do opkg upgrade and run the post-installation script Sep 14 16:03:26 I've found difficult to find reliable information Sep 14 16:09:42 and I don't like to join to IRC because sometimes you find yourself with people upset and that answer like if you're a stupid just because you don't know something Sep 14 16:10:55 Cristianpark: take it easy dude Sep 14 16:11:07 All: I doesn't mean this channel Sep 14 16:12:43 PaulFertser: Don't get confused, I'm only giving my opinion in what DocScrutinizer said Sep 14 16:14:01 naeg: hey Sep 14 16:14:08 naeg: any news about testing results? Sep 14 16:14:23 Chocky: i don't mean only this channel too Sep 14 16:14:28 Cristianpark: ^^ Sep 14 16:14:29 :o Sep 14 16:14:44 Chocky: how many FR's do you have? Sep 14 16:16:04 just one Sep 14 16:18:02 PaulFertser: hey Sep 14 16:18:52 PaulFertser: well i got my new laptop today, so i am actually not testing anything. but booting from nand(with initrd which union mounts) is 10 secs faster than booting from sd(no X, just base sys) Sep 14 16:19:32 PaulFertser: do you know any good fs benchmark suite? Sep 14 16:20:18 hdparm Sep 14 16:21:41 Chocky: :) Sep 14 16:21:45 naeg: not really Sep 14 16:21:54 naeg: and it's known that sd is mad slow on FR Sep 14 16:38:18 is there a way to tape the sdcard hold?er-card in a way to stop the interference Sep 14 16:38:30 -? Sep 14 16:39:03 tate it in the open position then close ti? Sep 14 16:39:10 tape- Sep 14 16:51:21 slaxxer: interference from what to where? Sep 14 17:10:48 Thank You guys for your help, I'll try the configuration on Navit and let you know the results Sep 14 17:10:55 see you Sep 14 17:30:41 hi Sep 14 18:11:00 * [Rui] waves Sep 14 18:28:52 does the Neo work with sprintpcs? Sep 14 18:29:24 There is a list of providers it works with on the wiki. Sep 14 18:29:33 wow, i've spent hours on the wiki and never found it Sep 14 18:29:34 In short - is it a GSM phone - or CDMA? Sep 14 18:29:54 my current sprintpcs phone is cdma, but i dont know if sprint also has GSM support Sep 14 18:29:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers Sep 14 18:30:20 ty Sep 14 18:33:07 sprint/Verizon are CDMA only Sep 14 19:21:59 good day everybody ,what is the lastest version of openmoko phone A7 Sep 14 19:27:27 good day everybody ,what is the lastest version of openmoko phone? A7? Sep 14 19:28:20 dehqan_: yes Sep 14 19:28:31 dehqan_: there's A8 but it wasn't mass produced. Sep 14 19:30:47 thanks is openmoko phone good choice for a person that does not want to pay time each for fixing bugs ?just he want use for sms call music ...is it stable enoughe for him ? Sep 14 19:32:49 heh Sep 14 19:33:17 dehqan_: my opinion is that FR is not ready for an ordinary end-user. Sep 14 19:33:54 would tell more? do you mean for this needs sms call music is not stable? Sep 14 19:34:06 I want to "sms call music" too. Sep 14 19:34:12 dehqan_: music requires bass fix, please read GTA02_bass_fix on the wiki Sep 14 19:34:34 do you mean c work ? Sep 14 19:34:42 dehqan_: yes, hardware fix Sep 14 19:34:56 ok except that Sep 14 19:35:09 e.g A7 for this needs sms call music is not stable? Sep 14 19:35:26 You keep saying "sms call music" as if it means something. Sep 14 19:36:20 dehqan_: anyway software is not quite stable. Sep 14 19:36:39 even for needs like sms call and music ? Sep 14 19:37:06 * Chocky wonders how ways the question can be phrased Sep 14 19:37:09 +many Sep 14 19:38:30 dehqan_: yes Sep 14 19:39:35 why would you tell which reasons cause this unstablity ?would give an example Sep 14 19:39:42 to the wiki ! Sep 14 19:40:13 and you are IRCing as root? tsk. Sep 14 19:40:17 Chocky: isn't it bad to make fun of miserable foreigners? Sep 14 19:40:18 Chocky: ;) Sep 14 19:40:30 * Chocky is a miserable foreigner Sep 14 19:43:57 e.g for a user that just wants call sms and listen music which problems will happen ?will those problems cache his time ? Sep 14 19:44:21 dehqan_: read the wiki first, before you ask your question for the 10th time. Sep 14 19:44:35 Listening to music over the phone connection can't really be done Sep 14 19:44:37 it's too slow Sep 14 19:44:46 dehqan_: does that hypothetical user knows how to use command line interface of *nix systems? Sep 14 19:45:12 SpeedEvil: maybe hold musaz Sep 14 19:45:17 he knows *unix enoughe Sep 14 19:45:18 er, musac Sep 14 19:46:04 but he does not want to pay more time for fixing bug Sep 14 19:46:12 you used FR Sep 14 19:46:25 or spend any time reading the wiki? Sep 14 19:47:18 as a FR user you say for calling sms and ... will he faces problems that cache his time ? Sep 14 19:48:00 yes, yes, and yes. Do you want to ask your question a 12th time? Sep 14 19:48:02 he is not developer and just wants to use FR cause of it is open Sep 14 19:48:31 And I don't think that "cache his time" means what you think it means. Sep 14 19:49:01 cache = catch ! Sep 14 19:49:17 hi, any1 knows where can i get kernel config used for building SHR kernel & modules? Sep 14 19:50:45 yes in wiki is written but realy for a person that know debian ,will Fr problems catch his time ? Sep 14 19:51:05 dehqan_: how many times do you want us to answer, and waste our time? Sep 14 19:51:14 * Chocky gives up on lazy noob. Sep 14 19:51:47 chocky dont you think in this way to reply more and more will wast you time more? Sep 14 19:52:15 dehqan_: we already answered it 10 times. what you're inisting is that we waste our time on your behalf, instead of you doing some actual research. Sep 14 19:52:49 go on, ask your question again. Make it 15 times. Sep 14 19:52:55 this research that needs FR users idea Sep 14 19:53:07 not wiki writtens Sep 14 19:53:20 it is an experimental issue ok ? Sep 14 19:53:53 please dont wast me and yourself time more .. Sep 14 19:54:12 radekp: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=blob;f=arch/arm/configs/gta02_packaging_defconfig;h=15defd288410970c0b4df0cc9220a2e6d94a3669;hb=andy-tracking Sep 14 19:54:55 radekp: yes Sep 14 19:55:19 so that's the one from openmoko kernel git? Sep 14 19:55:23 radekp: it's almost (or probably fully) identical to packaging_defconfig in andy-tracking. Sep 14 19:56:06 and do you know how are modules built for the resulting image? Sep 14 19:56:31 if i do ./build GTA02 dummy it builds about 30MB of modules Sep 14 19:56:47 PaulFertser he knows unix enoughe he uses debian on his pc desktop ,but he does not want pay houres of his time on phone ,so for those uses you told problems will happen but fixing them by him will catch much time ? Sep 14 19:56:55 in SHR image the size of modules is just about 6MB Sep 14 19:57:50 radekp: yes, it does. Sorry, ask at #openmoko-cdevel, mrmoku should know OE kernel build details. Sep 14 19:58:11 dehqan_: if he's not ready to spend hours most probably FR is not for him. Sep 14 19:58:33 radekp: i'm having 23 mb of packages for kernel+modules Sep 14 19:58:50 PaulFertser hours in day ?or for example for a month ? Sep 14 19:59:18 dehqan_: i prefer to think about FR as a fancy dev board, that might give you an idea. Sep 14 19:59:48 PaulFertser: oki, i'll try, thanks Sep 14 20:00:47 PaulFertser you a Fr user do you think how many hours will it catch his time for just those uses call sms music ... ? Sep 14 20:01:16 dehqan_: i can't give a reasonable estimate, sorry. Sep 14 20:03:15 to play devil's advocate: i haven't spent a significant amount of time making calls and SMS work. it needs a bit of patience with the fiddly keyboard, sometimes things crashing or misbehaving, but it's not (for me) as bad as the situation with desktop Linux circa 2001 (recompile your kernel to get sound or ACPI on your laptop, etc) Sep 14 20:03:47 however, my phone use is usually light Sep 14 20:03:54 dont mention it ,but this is question yet for call and sending sms which software problems will happen Sep 14 20:04:46 really each some time user faces problems in calling and sending sms ? Sep 14 20:09:08 dehqan_: for me, the fiddliness of the keyboard is the main problem. i don't personally have any major complaints Sep 14 20:09:49 thanks weiss do you have A7 ? Sep 14 20:10:43 no, i have a non-buzzfixed A6. i haven't yet had significant problems with call quality (but it can depend on network, cell etc (apparently)) Sep 14 20:11:21 would you tell your GSM ? Sep 14 20:12:25 would i tell them what? Sep 14 20:13:50 here in iran GSM is 900 1800 Sep 14 20:14:24 dehqan_: ah, so you need just "european" version, the same as Weiss has. Sep 14 20:14:32 * [Rui] has an A5+bluzzfix and now people complain that they hear things too loud Sep 14 20:14:42 <[Rui]> any suggestions for SHR-U files? Sep 14 20:14:55 * Chocky has A5+buzzfix, and I don't think the volume works at all now Sep 14 20:15:39 <[Rui]> well... a colleague asked me to speak lower Sep 14 20:15:45 <[Rui]> and I wasn't speaking loud :) Sep 14 20:15:50 you can turn down your mic volume Sep 14 20:16:06 [Rui]: i guess Laslo even pushed some cool app to shr that can help to fine-tune your state files. Sep 14 20:16:40 <[Rui]> PaulFertser: hms... do you happen to remember the name? Sep 14 20:16:49 * do you mean maybe "european" for someone would be good sound for some mighte be bad sound ? Sep 14 20:16:52 <[Rui]> it's control.49 right? Sep 14 20:17:05 <[Rui]> it's control.48 (I mean) right? Sep 14 20:17:15 <[Rui]> I have "value 2" Sep 14 20:17:17 By European, he means someone who doesn't shave his armpits and spends Euros Sep 14 20:18:07 [Rui]: to answer that i'd need to look at the "pretty" diagram again and think about GSM mic path etc... Sep 14 20:18:11 <[Rui]> Chocky: shaving armipits is gay (not that there's anything wrong about it -- Jerry Seinfeld) Sep 14 20:18:19 and speaks English more fluently than the English Sep 14 20:19:37 <[Rui]> Chocky: and we have portuguese women (the best ;)) Sep 14 20:20:11 <[Rui]> PaulFertser: I think I read in the wiki that's one of the most important ones, but I'd guess it's the noise filter that should probably be stronger Sep 14 20:21:26 [Rui]: not sure, i guess we don't use any noise filter inside wm8753, we hope that calypso does the right thing on its own. Sep 14 20:21:57 <[Rui]> PaulFertser: oh, I thought that would be something done at alsa level (proves my ignorance, it seems) Sep 14 20:22:59 <[Rui]> "Audio Path Theory" in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Alsa_state_a7 Sep 14 20:23:36 <[Rui]> PaulFertser: I'll try to fiddle with that Sep 14 20:24:37 [Rui]: yeah, semi-decent page, worth reading :) Sep 14 20:26:43 weiss your network gsm is 900 ? Sep 14 20:30:53 dehqan_: no idea which frequency. i use O2 (UK), if it's any help Sep 14 20:31:55 wiess so your problem is just sometime craching yes ? Sep 14 20:35:01 weiss your music sound is good ?is FR crashing alot ? Sep 14 20:35:21 * Chocky cries Sep 14 20:35:47 the noob! it burns my eyes! Sep 14 20:36:41 dehqan_: i don't use my FR for music. almost all of the crashing i experience is my own fault, as well (i'm working on graphics drivers) Sep 14 20:37:48 ok sound in calls is ok ?and loud anoughe ? Sep 14 20:38:06 dont you have that buzz? Sep 14 20:38:11 dehqan_: clue: Put the question mark directly after the word, and put a space _after_ it. Sep 14 20:38:21 clue 2: "alot" is not a word Sep 14 20:38:58 dehqan_: i had to tweak the volume up a little, but now it's good. people have said that there's a slight buzz at their end, but only when i asked them directly Sep 14 20:39:18 dehqan_: but remember that call quality (a) is subjective, (b) depends on circumstances Sep 14 20:40:06 phone circumstances ? Sep 14 20:41:00 GSM network circumstances. different cells and networks can have different settings Sep 14 20:41:53 ohum if gsm network be the same it is probable there will not be a problem Sep 14 20:42:24 so i understand Sep 14 20:43:13 what is your distirbution ? Sep 14 20:44:14 i use SHR-unstable Sep 14 20:45:17 do you know if it support persian language (farsi) for sms ? Sep 14 20:47:08 no idea, sorry Sep 14 20:47:47 wiess would tell how did you buy FR from uk ? Sep 14 20:48:06 Farsi in SMS. good grief. Sep 14 20:49:30 dehqan_: i bought mine from Pulster. it worked out cheaper at the time to buy from elsewhere in Europe and have it sent to the UK than to buy from the UK distributor Sep 14 20:51:09 yes also now is cheaper 280 $ ... Sep 14 20:51:28 did you order pen and other free things ? Sep 14 20:54:08 the pen was included, and i also ordered a pouch (but i don't use it any more - makes the whole thing too big, and it hasn't been harmed by being kept in my pocket) Sep 14 20:54:39 wiess what did your package include ? Sep 14 20:56:21 it included: the phone, a battery, a microSD card (512M), a microSD->full size SD adaptor, a USB cable, the stylus (with batteries), and the mains charger (with adaptors for US, UK or Europe) Sep 14 20:57:29 about 5 thing is listed in their site for free ,did not you get them ? Sep 14 20:58:12 what needs to be done before openmoko is ready for the general public? Sep 14 20:58:28 made into a version with a keyboard and no glamo Sep 14 20:58:32 dehqan_: which five things? Sep 14 20:59:09 Display protection , OpenMoko Bondage Sep 14 20:59:22 <[Rui]> anyone knows if I'll get a working SHR-u if I do an opkg upgrade now? Sep 14 21:00:16 I did upgrade and ewerything works Sep 14 21:00:36 <[Rui]> tomcatek: more or less about now? and you use it as a phone? :) Sep 14 21:00:55 [Rui]: upgrade done about 1h ago Sep 14 21:01:09 [Rui]: I use neo as my daily phone Sep 14 21:01:11 is now a good time to buy the hardware or is there a major milestone excepted within a month or two? Sep 14 21:01:32 kermit: hardware won't change Sep 14 21:01:41 <[Rui]> tomcatek: I guess I'll risk it, then Sep 14 21:01:55 why risk? Sep 14 21:02:15 it's just a matter of downgrading fso if something went wrong ;) Sep 14 21:03:03 <[Rui]> tomcatek: hehe Sep 14 21:06:57 hi there :) Sep 14 21:07:04 is there a ipk of ghostscript around? Sep 14 21:09:36 weiss Display protection , OpenMoko Bondage ...did not you get them yes ? Sep 14 21:10:52 dehqan_: nope, neither of those.. Sep 14 21:11:32 ok how much does it cost for post ir from german to uk ? Sep 14 21:11:48 weiss ,ok how much does it cost for post it from german to uk ? Sep 14 21:12:48 weiss , would you give your email ? Sep 14 21:12:54 EUR 14.90 Sep 14 21:13:23 is that 512 Mg enoughe ? Sep 14 21:13:45 email correspondence will not be entered into :) - if you have further sensible questions, it's best to ask them where others can see the answers Sep 14 21:14:09 512 Mb: depends what you want to do. i use it to store maps and occasional backups, and it's plenty for that Sep 14 21:17:45 wiess so that buzz is alittle on other talk side yes ?is not loud ?can person who talk with you hear your speech VIVID Sep 14 21:18:04 and are you in mailing list also ? Sep 14 21:19:28 dehqan_: i must admit we're a bit tired of you Sep 14 21:20:36 PaulFertser dont you think this should be said from weiss ? Sep 14 21:20:41 dehqan_: yep, the GSM buzz is on the other side of the call. i haven't heard any complaints from people i've spoken to on my FR. other people have not been so lucky, and have had buzz that's loud enough to make it unusable Sep 14 21:21:03 dehqan_: Weiss is too polite probably Sep 14 21:21:18 dehqan_: or i am too rude Sep 14 21:22:27 paul you are polite too thank you Sep 14 21:23:08 dehqan_: what is the reason you want to get what is essentially a developer platform, not a real phone/smartphone? Sep 14 21:23:32 paul cause of open firmware Sep 14 21:24:14 dehqan_: not all firmware on FR is open. GSM, bluetooth and wifi are closed. Sep 14 21:24:24 dehqan_: and hardware is suboptimal to say the least. Sep 14 21:24:33 weiss those other pepole were in a network like your network that had loud buzz Sep 14 21:25:00 dehqan_: buzz comes and goes Sep 14 21:25:11 suboptimal? Sep 14 21:25:32 dehqan_: you shouldn't hope it won't be there. If you face it you will be disappointed. A7 is buzz-free from the factory btw. Sep 14 21:27:27 paul here we can fix it if we faced can not ? Sep 14 21:28:07 weiss those other pepole were in a network like your network ?those that had loud buzz Sep 14 21:28:33 dehqan_: of course it's easy to fix buzz for a one who can solder smd parts. Sep 14 21:29:03 yes but if we can find parts in iran Sep 14 21:29:45 dehqan_: A7 comes with buzzfix already. And parts can be sent by snail mail from Europe, no problem with that. Sep 14 21:31:01 yes but it may cost a lot Sep 14 21:32:18 paul do you know exactly what parts should be bought for c work ? Sep 14 21:32:21 dehqan_: no, it can't Sep 14 21:32:24 dehqan_: sure Sep 14 21:32:49 dehqan_: one 0402 2.2kOhm resistor and one small (the smaller the better) 100uF capacitor. Sep 14 21:34:06 just these 2 part any ic ? Sep 14 21:34:10 dehqan_: no Sep 14 21:34:17 dehqan_: buzzfix is relatively simple Sep 14 21:34:55 thanks paul yes really simple and for this simple fix there is about 40 eur diffreneces ? Sep 14 21:35:19 dehqan_: well, yes Sep 14 21:35:20 between A6 A7 prices Sep 14 21:35:32 ! Sep 14 21:35:32 dehqan_: not everybody can and not afraid to solder 0402 R Sep 14 21:36:07 maybe here someone that have solder do this for you for 3 $ Sep 14 21:37:52 now paul you are so tired from me yes ? Sep 14 21:37:58 thanks alot Sep 14 21:41:21 so paul at the end ,wiess said that does not have problem with A6 in uk ,do you think in iran it will not have loud buzz too Sep 14 21:42:23 dehqan_: it's easy to find somebody who can solder for $3 in Iran, not that hard to find somebody who'll do that for $30 or less in russia, probably harder in Europe, no idea. Many guys complained. Sep 14 21:43:05 dehqan_: (buzz in iran) i guess you'll have high chances to get loud buzz if you're moving along the country, especially relatively far from base stations. Sep 14 21:44:03 you are right Sep 14 21:44:12 thanks alot Sep 14 21:44:37 i applogize from all persons who complained from me ... Sep 14 21:44:39 dehqan_: welcome Sep 14 21:44:50 dehqan_: i hope you'll try to search the mailing list archives next time though Sep 14 22:18:47 anybody printing from his/her neo so far? I can print ps but as long as there's no ghostscript I dunno how to print pdf.. lp just prints them in plaintext.. Sep 14 22:19:42 Graf_Ithaka: i have ghostscript Sep 14 22:20:01 lindi-: do you have an ipk? where did you get it? Sep 14 22:20:17 Graf_Ithaka: no, debian Sep 14 22:20:28 argh ;D Sep 14 22:31:15 hi! has anybody managed to install latest AndNav on Koolo beta 7? Sep 14 22:31:29 I get a Failure [-12] Sep 14 22:41:53 openmoko: 03werner * r5641 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/GETTING-STARTED: Sep 14 22:41:53 openmoko: - docs/GETTING-STARTED: added section on editing and viewing the layout Sep 14 22:41:53 openmoko: - modules/mkloe: if fped fails, print on which files it failed Sep 14 22:47:00 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * rf7dcc12e2e61 10/src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala: catch up with new 'async' keyword for methods. replaces 'yields' Sep 14 22:50:42 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r1c1b485b2b6b 10/src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala: fix position of async qualifier Sep 14 23:08:51 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9f97aa0006e9 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/ (fsoframework-2.0.vapi subsystem.vala): libfsoframework: interfaces: add well-known paths for org.freesmartphone.GSM Sep 14 23:08:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb64b4de07cb6 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Sep 14 23:08:53 freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: first async dbus method implemented! Sep 14 23:08:53 freesmartphone.org: disable libfso-glib for now as it doesn't compile Sep 14 23:46:04 cu@all **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 15 02:59:57 2009