**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 19 02:59:59 2009 Sep 19 03:04:11 AlexC: a lot of FR users are Europe TZ. it's Saturday morning 5AM here Sep 19 03:06:07 yap. it is Sep 19 03:06:28 * roh just came back from a illegal outdoor party in a public parc in berlin. Sep 19 03:06:28 lol... ROH! Sep 19 03:06:31 :-) Sep 19 03:07:08 atleast the police said it was illegal. luckily it wasnt the same police which sent us home in the other parc earlier Sep 19 03:07:17 * DocScrutinizer-8 starts to ponder moving to Berlin, just like he did so many times before Sep 19 03:07:24 too much 'schwabenpack' in berlin nowadays Sep 19 03:10:53 n8, have a date to """install""" a dsl-wlan-router in 4h Sep 19 03:11:30 in a pub ;-) Sep 19 03:12:01 what was the question you where asking? Sep 19 03:12:15 who? Sep 19 03:14:08 no idea, i just flipped back to this channel Sep 19 03:15:40 dns53: the question was: if I move to Berlin, do you pay my flat and have a nice job for me? Sep 19 03:16:14 i already got a flat ... got paid work? Sep 19 03:16:18 ;) Sep 19 03:16:19 aah Sep 19 03:51:01 * hipitihop noticed today shr-u upgrade still fails with "ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for fsousaged: * libfso-glib0 (>= 0.2.1+gitr47+7608c8d98bb65bb5beca6621eb86920b71df1bc9) Sep 19 06:04:38 holycrap Sep 19 06:04:51 for the first time ever, I got the FR connected to my home wifi Sep 19 06:04:58 had to open it up completely Sep 19 06:05:01 but it's connected Sep 19 07:30:34 WOOTFLAKES Sep 19 07:30:41 I'm not sure how Sep 19 07:30:43 or why Sep 19 07:30:57 but it's now connected to home wifi encrypted! Sep 19 07:31:17 I rebuilt the hostapd config, but all the relevant parts are the same as they were before Sep 19 07:31:23 has to be something small/simple Sep 19 07:31:29 that was keeping it from working Sep 19 07:45:44 Is it normal for QtMoko to be borked on the first boot? :( Sep 19 07:47:42 Having a working handheld Debian Linux computer + phone would be *so* cool! I will be able to run Vim on my phone! :D Sep 19 07:48:12 As usual, if you have to ask why, you are not part of the intended audience! :D Sep 19 07:50:13 ciao a tutti Sep 19 07:51:16 D3M0: You will be assimilated by the global hegemony of the English language! ;) Sep 19 09:07:09 brolin_: have you considered using Debian which already has FSO in the repos instead of qtmoko? Sep 19 09:15:52 Paul! Sep 19 09:16:01 I -finally- got this thing connected to my home wifi Sep 19 09:16:18 and vpn'd in now too Sep 19 09:16:29 getting some odd messages on the AP host Sep 19 09:16:43 ath_fatal_tasklet: Hardware error; resetting Sep 19 09:16:46 seems to work though Sep 19 09:18:46 PaulFertser: No. QtMoko uses Debian Linux 5.0, though. silvio (a German guy) is helping me in #qtmoko, though. Sep 19 09:19:27 brolin_: why don't you want plain Debian? Sep 19 09:19:46 ndnihil: congratulations :D Sep 19 09:19:57 PaulFertser: I decided to try QtMoko because it appeared to be popular on the Openmoko community mailing list and because the screenshots looked cool. :) Sep 19 09:20:24 And because the table on the QtMoko home page showed most things working. Sep 19 09:22:01 PaulFertser: What is the advantage of plain Debian over QtMoko? Sep 19 09:23:30 PaulFertser: My ssh connection from Cygwin on Windows Vista to QtMoko on my FR appears to work fine except for being unable to connect because the connection timed out the first time I ran ssh in Cygwin. The ssh connection from Cygwin on Windows Vista to SHR-U on my FR was very unresponsive. Sep 19 09:35:55 hi Sep 19 09:49:30 brolin_: probably that has something to do with the fact SHR unstable uses dropbear, not opensshd. I'm not sure what qtmoko uses. Sep 19 09:50:46 any idea where mokonnect keeps its config? Sep 19 09:50:56 lsof shows nothing Sep 19 09:51:03 so it's not kept open Sep 19 10:42:19 * ndnihil bangs his head against the wall Sep 19 10:42:25 all this Sep 19 10:42:28 to be stopped now Sep 19 10:42:40 hi all Sep 19 10:44:46 opened and reconfigured AP, got FR to connect, added crypto to AP, got FR to connect, set up VPN, and now it will only reach the internal network Sep 19 10:44:50 not public network Sep 19 10:45:01 laptop using exact same config can get anywhere fine Sep 19 10:45:57 no iptables rules on FR Sep 19 11:05:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r2a9c06af2b87 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/dbus.vala: fsoframework: bring back generic delegate storage class (fixed in Vala HEAD) Sep 19 11:13:30 PaulFertser: QtMoko v10 uses the Debian openssh-server package. Sep 19 11:51:44 mornin doc Sep 19 11:51:46 hows the head? Sep 19 11:53:09 hi all Sep 19 11:53:24 can anyone help me? ... Sep 19 11:53:33 perhaps Sep 19 11:53:33 possibly Sep 19 11:53:40 i have in a dir the expat-libs: Sep 19 11:53:47 zwielicht% ls ../rootfs/usr/lib/*expat* Sep 19 11:54:03 ../rootfs/usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 ../rootfs/usr/lib/libexpat.so.1.5.2 ../rootfs/usr/lib/libexpatw.so.1 ../rootfs/usr/lib/libexpatw.so.1.5.2 Sep 19 11:54:16 but i get with this line a not found: Sep 19 11:54:23 arm-linux-gcc -o conftest -g -O2 -L../rootfs/usr/lib conftest.c -lexpat Sep 19 11:54:39 the failure is: /opt/toolchains/arm920t-eabi/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lexpat Sep 19 11:54:42 what is wrong? Sep 19 11:54:52 probably wrong version, or missing link Sep 19 11:55:48 ie: it's expecting to find libexpat.so.1.5.2.123, but there are only links to libexpat.so.1.5.2 Sep 19 11:55:51 etc.. Sep 19 11:56:26 hmm, with -lexpat he should find all libexpat's or not? Sep 19 11:56:50 how can i select the expat-version? Sep 19 11:57:07 more general: how can i select a library version? Sep 19 11:57:35 well, to start, are you sure that ../rootfs/usr/lib/ is in the include path? Sep 19 11:57:49 (or whatever the relevant path is) Sep 19 11:59:24 with -L it is in the path, or not? Sep 19 12:00:29 isn't it -I? Sep 19 12:00:40 capital i Sep 19 12:01:09 i dont need -I to check up if exits the libs, or? Sep 19 12:02:22 my prog is very short, and i need no include: Sep 19 12:02:30 char XML_ParserCreate (); Sep 19 12:02:32 int Sep 19 12:02:34 main () Sep 19 12:02:36 { Sep 19 12:02:38 return XML_ParserCreate (); Sep 19 12:02:40 ; Sep 19 12:02:42 return 0; Sep 19 12:02:44 } Sep 19 12:02:46 i make a forward-deklaration Sep 19 12:04:24 ahhhh Sep 19 12:04:29 i use the wrong compiler Sep 19 12:04:33 shit Sep 19 12:04:36 sorry Sep 19 12:05:15 sorry for the noise Sep 19 12:06:09 pastebin.ubuntu.com (or another like service) Sep 19 12:21:02 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rb93602bb683e 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): catch up with Vala 0.7.6 Sep 19 12:22:47 what is the default crosstoolchain for the projects? /opt/toolchains/arm920t-eabi or /usr/local/openmoko/arm ? Sep 19 14:19:49 PaulFertser, Hi I read the emai about the rtc Sep 19 14:20:04 so the rtc can switch on the device when is power-off? Sep 19 14:20:15 I was thinking that it can only resume it Sep 19 14:20:17 panicking: yes. Sep 19 14:20:28 panicking: sure Sep 19 14:20:29 panicking: ah no Sep 19 14:20:34 panicking: i don't know about the last part Sep 19 14:20:35 panicking: ah, off? Sep 19 14:20:44 panicking: i'm not really sure, i need to check Sep 19 14:20:58 Where I can read the documentation Sep 19 14:20:59 about it Sep 19 14:21:00 ? Sep 19 14:21:15 I'm moving on the latest kernel Sep 19 14:21:27 take care to clean up the patches of openwrt Sep 19 14:21:31 is it possible Sep 19 14:21:33 to create Sep 19 14:21:41 a cleanup repository Sep 19 14:21:47 and a branch for openmok Sep 19 14:21:54 based to the latest linux kernel Sep 19 14:21:56 in openmoko Sep 19 14:21:57 ? Sep 19 14:22:26 panicking: read pcf50633 datasheet Sep 19 14:22:27 panicking: i understood that that's what openwrt has done and that's what larsc and weiss at least are working on with git.openmoko.org too? Sep 19 14:22:35 panicking: larsc is at it Sep 19 14:23:22 Maybe depend in how it is connected too Sep 19 14:23:23 the rtc Sep 19 14:23:46 Because the poweon depend if the rtc is a circuit connected to the power on of the gta02 Sep 19 14:23:53 is not only the datasheet Sep 19 14:24:47 panicking: schematics? Sep 19 14:25:09 Yes I will download, I ask just if somenthing know that Sep 19 14:25:12 in the irc channel Sep 19 14:25:24 I must go Sep 19 14:25:27 see you later Sep 19 14:32:14 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r74b069e327f8 10/org.freesmartphone.PIM/ (3 files): PIM: add Notes domain Sep 19 14:32:16 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * ra9ca54b71bdd 10/html/index.html: index.html: update opimd links Sep 19 14:34:41 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r4d85ea457f35 10/org.freesmartphone.PIM/Makefile: PIM: add Notes files to Makefile Sep 19 14:34:41 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r338df0ebc1f3 10/ (6 files in 2 dirs): regen Sep 19 14:41:27 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r91a6d7d468b5 10/ (9 files in 3 dirs): PIM: update Contacts domain Sep 19 14:47:18 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r13bd4018bc5a 10/ (13 files in 3 dirs): PIM: update Messages domain Sep 19 14:49:21 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libfso-glib * re8d776c18ae0 10/src/ (5 files): regen Sep 19 14:57:40 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * rb7cbc96263e1 10/ (6 files in 3 dirs): PIM: update Sources interface Sep 19 15:10:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * ra6fdd5a1e69f 10/ (20 files in 2 dirs): org.freesmartphone.GSM.*: all methods can also throw org.freesmartphone.* errors Sep 19 15:10:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r18763921d559 10/html/index.html: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call also handles data calls Sep 19 15:19:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r84773f9cf7de 10/ (20 files in 2 dirs): Sep 19 15:19:11 freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.GSM.*: reorder throw statements. throw statements will appear in the interfaces Sep 19 15:19:11 freesmartphone.org: in the same order as declared. Policy is to mention errors in the order of most specific to least specific. Sep 19 15:19:11 freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Almost all functions need to declare that they throw 'org.freesmartphone'. Throwing DBus.Error will Sep 19 15:19:15 freesmartphone.org: be added to the interface declaration implicitly by vala-dbus-binding-tool. Sep 19 15:22:36 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r75a8e587b4c7 10/ (9 files in 3 dirs): PIM: update Calls domain Sep 19 15:22:37 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * r83e652c8f38c 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): PIM: Messages: add GetUnreadMessages Sep 19 15:25:56 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r36f408e67103 10/fsogsmd/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: catch up with new error declarations in libfso-glib Sep 19 15:31:33 hi Sep 19 16:10:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rfdcd40b90376 10/mickeydbus/ (TODO mdbus): Sep 19 16:10:48 freesmartphone.org: mdbus: show actual dbus error message, not just the error name Sep 19 16:10:48 freesmartphone.org: Release as 1.0.0 (yay!) Sep 19 16:13:09 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rcc3a1016c779 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/modem.vala: fsogsmd: modem: raise internal errors (marshalled back to dbus client) when a mediator or an at command is not found Sep 19 17:00:16 hi again Sep 19 17:01:59 the developers at my company are thinking about using the freerunner board as the base for a mobile device Sep 19 17:02:35 it would be nice to get a couple (about 50) PCBs for development Sep 19 17:02:35 o.o Sep 19 17:02:45 mactschi: It'll be Free? Sep 19 17:02:58 the pcbs alone are probably cheaper than the full devices, right? Sep 19 17:03:16 azaghal, what part exactly do you mean? Sep 19 17:03:35 As in being able to run Free Software on top of it without proprietary parts? Sep 19 17:03:42 the electronics that we add directly to the design - there is no way around that, isn't there? Sep 19 17:05:04 well, we have some proprietary python code that would have to stay proprietary - but that's application code Sep 19 17:06:09 we would need to develop (or more likely: port) some drivers for usb devices, that stuff would probably have to be free, right? Sep 19 17:06:41 mactschi: no Sep 19 17:07:04 azaghal: at the moment it's just in idea. the alternative are the toradex (www.toradex.com) boards, combined with some gsm module (e.g. telit) Sep 19 17:07:32 Defiant: no to what? Sep 19 17:08:17 mactschi: you can do what you want with it. Your USB driver can be closed source Sep 19 17:09:12 openmoko: 03rehar * r5648 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/ (INFO STATUS mkloe sot23-5.fpd): added SOT23-5 footprint Sep 19 17:09:14 ok :-) Sep 19 17:10:14 although there's probably no reason to keep this driver closed source - if more people look at it, more things get fixed. Sep 19 17:10:16 mactschi: It'll run GNU/Linux, right? Sep 19 17:10:39 Actually... Sep 19 17:10:53 No, USB cannot be proprietary if it's linking against the kernel :) Sep 19 17:10:53 azaghal: that's the plan. win ce would also be interesting, but probably too much hazzle to port it Sep 19 17:11:14 Some might say NVidia does that, but they're bullying it out. Sep 19 17:11:38 mactschi: Best to contact an expert on the question regarding the legal things, of course :) Sep 19 17:11:57 @ usb non-proprietary: ok, as i said, doesn't matter. i don't see a reason to keep that part closed source anyway. Sep 19 17:12:09 mactschi: Will it be a cell phone or something else? Sep 19 17:12:32 you just can't use a few kernel functions with non-free software. But everything can be written Sep 19 17:12:33 as long as we can keep our python app closed. having to open source that stuff would ruin the idea. Sep 19 17:12:55 how do you keep a python app closed? Is that even possible? Sep 19 17:13:09 azaghal: not really a cell phone, but using most functions of the freerunner Sep 19 17:13:34 Defiant: Licensing and ability to read code are not the same things :) Sep 19 17:13:36 Defiant: obfuscate. it works better than i thought Sep 19 17:14:35 azaghal: that's true, but in this case it's "closed source" (no access to the source) an licensed for money Sep 19 17:14:45 ok - what about the hardware? Sep 19 17:15:17 I think OpenMoko spec's are released under some Freeish license, but you should check on wiki if you can download them and see what's the exact license. Sep 19 17:15:27 if we modify the pcb (add or remove features, change the layout, etc.), do we have to release the schematics? Sep 19 17:15:36 ok, i'll have a look Sep 19 17:18:32 is it possible to buy some PCBs somewhere? Sep 19 17:18:43 only the pcbs, without plastics Sep 19 17:19:09 Isn't that the debug board? Or am I wrong? Sep 19 17:19:24 because - maybe we could just build a simple 2-layer pcb with addon electronics, and use the same pcb as in the freerunner Sep 19 17:19:34 that would reduce prices for everyone Sep 19 17:19:58 azaghal: i mean the PCB of the freerunner phone itself Sep 19 17:26:20 is there anyone i can ask about the pcbs? or sales@openmoko.com directly? Sep 19 17:27:26 Hm... Sep 19 17:27:28 DocScrutinizer may be good for duch questions Sep 19 17:27:46 mactschi: Maybe you could have luck contacting some of the distributors instead? Since Openmoko Inc. is defunct? Sep 19 17:28:10 they are defunct? O_o Sep 19 17:28:29 as for sales... I think useless, project closed.. but you can buy a6 model for 250$ low price I think Sep 19 17:28:33 ok... so no more phones are produced? Sep 19 17:28:55 blog Sep 19 17:29:21 No new phones are being produced - the existing one is still in production Sep 19 17:29:27 they have much in stock Sep 19 17:29:27 a6 and maybe a7 Sep 19 17:29:27 no problem yo buy Sep 19 17:30:36 ok Sep 19 17:33:23 "having to open source that stuff would ruin the idea." <-- wtf? Sep 19 17:35:13 samgee: well, we have a very specialized proprietary app, with lots of development hours in it... Sep 19 17:35:27 so? Sep 19 17:35:43 Some things open source just doesn't work for. Sep 19 17:35:51 i don't have any problem with open sourcing _some_ of our stuff - just nothing that would give our competitors an edge ;-) Sep 19 17:36:22 SpeedEvil: exactly. Sep 19 17:36:31 free software is about the users having freedom, not development resources Sep 19 17:37:26 Free software doesn't always work very well if you need paid for it to eat Sep 19 17:38:16 you may not get rich, but if people want it, they'll pay for it Sep 19 17:39:23 if we would make money only with hardware, we'd be bankrupt within a few months Sep 19 17:39:42 people out of jobs, no more hw or sw getting developed Sep 19 17:40:14 if that software is only non-free, then there's no loss Sep 19 17:40:17 there are other jobs Sep 19 17:41:17 there is a loss for the users, the developers, and the company owners. Sep 19 17:41:42 how would the users lose? Sep 19 17:42:08 Not having the software. Sep 19 17:42:10 they wouldn't have _any_ software in this area Sep 19 17:42:13 As it wouldn't get developed. Sep 19 17:42:46 if the software is so important then it can also be developed as free software Sep 19 17:43:02 samgee: some software simply isn't though Sep 19 17:43:26 samgee: Please point to one continuous speech recognition package for linux that's open-source. Sep 19 17:43:54 I'd be quite happy to pay for a closed-source app. There also isn't one of those. Sep 19 17:44:26 hire someone to write it for you Sep 19 17:44:30 or write it yourself Sep 19 17:45:38 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb67e4a0b2494 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/ (7 files in 7 dirs): fsodeviced: s/linux26/linux/ Sep 19 17:47:39 samgee: A continuous speech recognition engine is man-decades of work. Sep 19 17:47:48 Or more. Sep 19 17:48:30 all the more reason to have such a big project be free Sep 19 17:48:44 I wouldn't like to see that go to waste because the company goes bankrupt Sep 19 17:50:08 And who funds a couple of dozen coders for a year? Sep 19 17:50:19 And the research team? Sep 19 17:50:31 The company that goes bankrupt in the end nevertheless :) Sep 19 17:50:40 you and other people/companies who want the software? Sep 19 17:51:08 Stuff like the linux kernel in many ways is easy. It is easily compartmentalisable, and improvements in one subsystem does not affect the other. Goals are clear, metrics are easy. Sep 19 17:51:27 Voice recognition - it's not clear where your metrics are, what performance is, ... Sep 19 17:51:56 Going from 1-2% accuracy doesn't help and may be counterproductive to building on this and getting 98-99% Sep 19 17:52:37 I don't see how that is a reason to take away a user's freedom Sep 19 17:53:42 ... Sep 19 18:19:21 solderside of the pcb is really nice Sep 19 18:19:38 lots of testpoints, everything labelled Sep 19 18:19:51 a developer's dream indeed :-) Sep 19 18:20:14 the "anti-nokia" Sep 19 18:21:00 "CONSOLE_RXD", "CONSOLE_TXD", i want that on my E71 :-D Sep 19 18:22:20 oh, typo Sep 19 18:22:30 "USB_DN" sould be "USB_DM" Sep 19 18:22:33 +h Sep 19 18:24:33 the board manufacturing technology is 8 layer with microvia, isn't it? :-/ Sep 19 18:24:44 (==expensive) Sep 19 18:25:57 mactschi: probably it's the only way with modern uBGA chips... Sep 19 18:28:50 PaulFertser: at least if you want a compact board Sep 19 18:29:35 i've seen some really ugly stuff with a PXA320 xscale on a 4 layer board once Sep 19 18:30:16 works surprizingly well, if the size of the board is not an issue, and have a metal case Sep 19 18:30:41 cheap, and still works - if size doesn't matter Sep 19 18:33:40 btw, is it possible to run maemo on the phone? Sep 19 18:35:27 mactschi: it is Sep 19 18:35:54 mactschi: but the problem is that maemo is not free and Mer which is supposed to be a full replacement is not really ready. Sep 19 18:36:17 a thought that maemo was gpl? Sep 19 18:36:31 maemo itself - yes Sep 19 18:36:37 ok Sep 19 18:36:50 (I think lgpl) Sep 19 18:37:05 but some programs written on it - fully proprietary Sep 19 18:37:21 ok Sep 19 18:39:31 mactschi: there're some problems with maemo, it is not usable without proprietary components. Take a look at Mer. Sep 19 18:41:58 hi all :) Sep 19 18:42:22 hi Mortak Sep 19 18:43:08 PaulFertser: do Mer apps run on Maemo and vice versa? Sep 19 18:44:02 mactschi: i guess so Sep 19 18:46:28 nice Sep 19 18:47:11 so... if nokia moves to Maemo completely in a few years... the entry barrier into the smartphone market will be hugely reduced Sep 19 18:47:59 which is why nokia is probably going to delay that step as far as possible... Sep 19 19:04:14 mactschi: And implement a lovely piece of core proprietary system :) Sep 19 19:04:57 openmoko: 03rehar * r5649 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/ (INFO STATUS mkloe tdfn34-16.fpd): added TDFN34-16 footprint Sep 19 19:05:24 azaghal, maybe, yes Sep 19 19:40:01 openmoko: 03rehar * r5650 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/ (dfbm-cs320.fpd sc70-5.fpd vssop8.fpd): added measurements to SC70-5, VSSOP8 and DFBM-CS320 footprints Sep 19 19:48:21 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra72993081c69 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fsodeviced: fix remaining references to Linux26 Sep 19 19:52:04 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07specs * rc5ecb98a63bf 10/ (11 files in 3 dirs): PIM: add Dates domain Sep 19 20:00:04 is it possible to use more than just one phonenumber for one person in shr concacts? i would like to add home, mobile, work, etc numbers to one contact without creating multiple concatct entries. :) Sep 19 20:02:36 this is one of the more important features missing at the moment for me Sep 19 20:03:00 Fox_Muldr: shr contacts are deprecated Sep 19 20:03:11 ehm ok Sep 19 20:03:21 so what is the replacement? :) Sep 19 20:03:28 Fox_Muldr: you can use Litephone or c_c dialer or opimd-utils (test app). Sep 19 20:03:51 ok than i will try opimd-utils first. thanks for the hint Sep 19 20:04:23 ~opimd-utils Sep 19 20:04:26 shr messages and shr dialer are also deprecated? Sep 19 20:04:50 Fox_Muldr: yes but SHR doesn't provide decent replacement yet, opimd-utils is just testing apps mostly. Sep 19 20:05:59 can i install the deprecated shr programs and maybe opimd-utils at the same time without interfering each other? Sep 19 20:06:20 Fox_Muldr: well Sep 19 20:06:33 Fox_Muldr: if you use opimd for SMSes you'll lose compatibility with shr messages. Sep 19 20:08:47 ok than i will deinstall all old shr apps and try opimd-utils alone. if this is not what i hope for than i will try litephone or c_c dialer. at least something to do again with my neo :) Sep 19 20:10:00 Fox_Muldr: no need to deinstall really Sep 19 20:10:30 you just need to make a patchwork Sep 19 20:10:50 to receive SMSes through opimd-messages Sep 19 20:11:04 dos1 can help Sep 19 20:12:45 Fox_Muldr: Sep 19 20:12:46 [22:12] ~opimd-utils Sep 19 20:12:48 [22:12] somebody said opimd-utils was not phone suite, it's only set of test scripts for developers. You can use it as phone apps, but without any warranty. Many things are not implemented, *AND THEY PROBABLY WON'T BE*. That's what dos1 said. Sep 19 20:12:49 [22:12] ~opimd-messages Sep 19 20:12:51 [22:12] it has been said that opimd-messages is crap, and that won't change soon Sep 19 20:13:09 keep it in mind when you want to use it ;) Sep 19 20:13:17 no problem. i still does not use it as my primary phone so i can live with that if something doesn't work. but so i can test what the current status of the phone aps is at the moment Sep 19 20:13:51 8))) Sep 19 20:13:58 maybe i should first try litephone ;) Sep 19 20:14:41 Fox_Muldr: dont be afraid. opimd-utils are quite good. Sep 19 20:15:14 hehe Sep 19 20:16:03 I'm using them rather long time already Sep 19 20:16:24 * Q-Master just reimported my vcards to opimd Sep 19 20:27:24 mactschi: Btw, ever considered BeagleBoard? Sep 19 20:28:56 azaghal: yes. Sep 19 20:29:18 too big, no gsm, no wlan, no bluetooth. otherwise great. Sep 19 20:29:29 Heheh, true. Sep 19 20:29:45 Actually, I never thought about it, but OpenMoko is really well packed. Sep 19 20:29:55 exactly :-) Sep 19 20:30:11 the BUG boards are also nice: http://www.buglabs.net/ (+) Sep 19 20:30:58 In fact, I wonder why they haven't tried to make a compact board and sell that as well? Sep 19 20:33:10 do you mean OM, beagle, or buglabs? Sep 19 20:34:38 OM Sep 19 20:34:50 Although, I don't know how many USB etc controllers it has. Sep 19 20:35:24 one device, one host Sep 19 20:35:29 seems ok Sep 19 20:36:31 mactschi: OM hoped to target very wide geek-market closer to end-users spectrum. Sep 19 20:39:15 PaulFertser: makes sense (on first thought) Sep 19 20:40:57 mactschi: i guess if they were smart enough to be able to actually sell enough FRs, they'd produce something like a devboard for custom projects too. But alas... Sep 19 20:42:35 well, why use a dev board, if the device is already there? Sep 19 20:43:12 i don't see the advantage, besides slightly better access to the non-wireless interfaces Sep 19 20:43:58 mactschi: at least they could have produced different versions for different needs by taking out unnecessary components and selling it cheaper. Sep 19 20:44:30 I'd have been quite happy with a spare parts store Sep 19 20:45:07 PaulFertser: it's called "capturing the consumer surplus" Sep 19 20:45:13 Sep 19 20:45:14 For example, not many people would need accelerometer. Not many would need GSM as well. Sep 19 20:45:18 Sep 19 20:45:31 mactschi: You know the sales guy just went to that site which generates phrases for him :) Sep 19 20:45:38 accelerometer is perhaps $1 Sep 19 20:45:40 lol Sep 19 20:45:47 yes, accelerometer is cheap Sep 19 20:45:52 gsm is more expensive Sep 19 20:46:03 Screen I suspect is $50, and GSM maybe half that? Sep 19 20:46:13 (in volume) Sep 19 20:46:13 SpeedEvil, but _that's_ what consumer surplus is about ;-) Sep 19 20:46:22 yeah. Sep 19 20:46:32 taking out the accellerometer, and selling it for 20 usd less ;-) Sep 19 20:46:34 But doing multiple versions isn't free. Sep 19 20:46:38 as a "low end" model Sep 19 20:46:42 Hm... Could a DVI be put on OM? Sep 19 20:46:56 However - I said at the beginning that they should sell it on ebay. Sep 19 20:47:11 doing multiple versions often brings in more money than the extra costs for marketing Sep 19 20:47:24 ...unless you confuse the customers Sep 19 20:47:43 (which is unlikely with the smarter-than-average geek crowd) Sep 19 20:48:03 Doing everything as if you're going to hit mass consumer volumes on wedensday is silly. Sep 19 20:48:04 :/ Sep 19 20:48:17 agreed Sep 19 20:48:24 -a Sep 19 20:48:28 jk ;-) Sep 19 20:49:27 PaulFertser: I've commented on other channels that a xmas 2007 release of neo1973 with a bugfixed 2007.3 stack would have been plausible. - a slowish basic phone running linux. Do you think this is unreasonable? Sep 19 20:51:34 SpeedEvil: tbh i'm not following the development since 2007, i started a year later. Sep 19 20:52:09 k. Sep 19 20:52:49 SpeedEvil: it would be reasonable to use qualified EE from the beginning, that's first and the main flaw of OM it seems. Sep 19 20:53:13 Because too many people got over-frustrated by the stupid hardware bugs. Sep 19 20:53:47 I think people concentrated too much on the stupid hardware bugs. Sep 19 20:54:05 And overlooked the stupid software bugs. Sep 19 20:54:20 Hardware bugs are much harder to exterminate, though. Sep 19 20:54:29 but wasn't even gta02 still titled as a "developer" version and only the successor gta02 should be for the mass market and therefore (mostly) hardware-bug free? Sep 19 20:54:41 ehm gta03 i mean as successor Sep 19 20:55:21 Always Innovating learnt from this and decided to mark their TouchBook as final when it comes down to hardware, as an example. Sep 19 20:55:27 gta03 is only dream now Sep 19 20:55:31 Although, they had a much easier platform to put together. Sep 19 20:55:47 azaghal, touchbook much more simplier device than phone Sep 19 20:55:49 max_posedon: How about that Sao Paolo University (?) deal? Sep 19 20:55:50 its bigger Sep 19 20:55:54 SpeedEvil: it looks like most people who bought gta02 can't solder even a little bit so no wonder they're afraid of hardware bugs. And some of them might be nasty enough to not be practically solvable. Sep 19 20:56:11 Agreed, I've said that. But I think they noticed general frustration with hardware changes related to OM project. Sep 19 20:56:29 azaghal, same as gta02-core, sometimes dream become real, but it doesn't change anything Sep 19 20:56:33 i think that too many users bought the gta02 which thought that it was a final version like any other cellphone which was not the intended purpose. Sep 19 20:56:44 Fox_Muldr: indeed Sep 19 20:56:47 * azaghal thought that too Sep 19 20:57:11 Actually, I thought that GTA01 was really a prototype, and that hardware problems were ironed out in GTA02. Sep 19 20:57:26 and they all get the reputation of openmoko real bad as a result Sep 19 20:57:50 I'm coming from the perspective that 01 works OK as a phone with recent software. Sep 19 20:58:05 I still believe that the main problem was switching to another GUI environment. Sep 19 20:58:08 PaulFertser: fixing smd parts in that size is not that easy for the usual person Sep 19 20:58:14 ...but I guess you already know that Sep 19 20:58:39 these arnt usual people Sep 19 20:58:59 ' Sep 19 20:59:17