**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 02:59:57 2009
Oct 20 03:11:39 <slaxxer> the web browser on android shure works well
Oct 20 03:12:24 <slaxxer> cant watch the web cam at the hogsbreath in key west though
Oct 20 03:32:59 <slaxxer> KILLER
Oct 20 03:33:25 <slaxxer> so it can be done:)
Oct 20 03:40:14 <slaxxer> why is ther no usable web browser    for shr?
Oct 20 03:43:34 <raster> slaxxer: no one has worked on a good mini-screen webkit browser yet?
Oct 20 03:52:58 <Blu3> slaxxer, it's like MMS, it's a gui thing and nobody is interested
Oct 20 03:55:58 <raster> theres just no real gui coders
Oct 20 03:56:31 <raster> those that do do gui stuff.. are mostly doing it because its a must, not "i love doing guis and am good at it/have done it for years"
Oct 20 03:56:43 <raster> (no offence intended)
Oct 20 04:04:35 <Blu3> 'tis just most gui things are weakly attended :>
Oct 20 04:25:44 <UndrWater> what about eve?
Oct 20 05:08:46 <raster> KenYoung: ping
Oct 20 05:14:40 <UndrWater> what's the command to get the system actions dialog?
Oct 20 05:15:03 <UndrWater> power button doesn't seem to bring it up anymore
Oct 20 05:17:24 <UndrWater> raster: did you see the post re illume keyboard in landscape?
Oct 20 05:24:01 <raster> UndrWater:  syscon
Oct 20 05:24:12 <raster> and no - i havent been paying attention
Oct 20 05:24:17 <raster> but i know it doesnt switch nicely
Oct 20 05:24:19 <UndrWater> ahh :)
Oct 20 05:24:27 <raster> nor does it handle screen res changes too nicely
Oct 20 05:24:29 <raster> nothing new
Oct 20 05:24:42 <UndrWater> hmmm...syscon isn't available...wonder if it's a missing package
Oct 20 05:24:55 <UndrWater> any chance for a fix?
Oct 20 05:25:00 <UndrWater> (keyboard)
Oct 20 05:41:17 <KenYoung> raster ping
Oct 20 05:47:20 <mostly_useless> does anyone else have constant wifi issues? regardless of kernel, distro, whatever. like it's a 50/50 chance that it feels like working?
Oct 20 05:53:11 <KenYoung> raster: ping
Oct 20 05:59:06 <mostly_useless> cool. I'm the only one with this issue. 
Oct 20 05:59:22 <mostly_useless> I see ebay in its near future.
Oct 20 05:59:35 <KenYoung> mostly_useless, Sorry to hear that.
Oct 20 06:00:11 <KenYoung> For me, WiFi works very reliably with certain access points, and not at all with others.
Oct 20 06:00:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> wifi depends on particular AP quite a bit
Oct 20 06:01:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> also there have been patches by PaulFertser "recently"
Oct 20 06:01:37 <parmaster> my chipset is the acx100
Oct 20 06:01:52 <parmaster> and it dies after about 15 minutes.
Oct 20 06:02:55 <parmaster> but i'm running qtopia on an htc blueangel
Oct 20 06:08:39 <headrx> so, what are some cool programs for the moko?
Oct 20 06:09:07 <KenYoung> headrx, Orrery! (mine)
Oct 20 06:09:15 <PaulFertser> mostly_useless: do you know the maxperf trick?
Oct 20 06:09:35 <mostly_useless> PaulFertser: I've never heard of that.
Oct 20 06:09:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> moin PaulFertser 
Oct 20 06:09:50 <DocScrutinizer-8> :-/
Oct 20 06:10:12 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: hello
Oct 20 06:10:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> got up too early, and -even worse - due to read-error
Oct 20 06:12:11 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: otoh it's not the worst thing that can happen due to a read error
Oct 20 06:12:23 <DocScrutinizer-8> yup
Oct 20 06:12:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> other way round would be much worse
Oct 20 06:16:24 <headrx> will the moko work on 3g?
Oct 20 06:16:29 <headrx> att
Oct 20 06:16:43 <KenYoung> headrx, Not the current model.
Oct 20 06:17:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> not any model
Oct 20 06:17:43 <headrx> damn, i drool over the prospect of streaming all my media from server to phone via 3g
Oct 20 06:18:34 <KenYoung> headrx, If video media is important for you, you don't want the Freerunner.
Oct 20 06:18:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> plug in external usb-umts-stick ;-P
Oct 20 06:20:16 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/FR+UMTS.jpg
Oct 20 06:21:18 <KenYoung> Not just a cell phone, it's also a hammer!
Oct 20 06:21:35 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Oct 20 06:22:03 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I took that photo ;-)
Oct 20 06:22:51 <KenYoung> I smell all sorts of cross-promotion with the Leatherman Tools folks.
Oct 20 07:31:49 <beer> morning
Oct 20 11:08:40 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r4c1242a67e3c 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
Oct 20 11:08:40 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: create modem_qualcomm_htc plugin as modem abstraction for
Oct 20 11:08:40 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: Qualcomm MSM7 devices using a HTC firmware. Add also a special AT parser
Oct 20 11:08:40 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: for this modem (*sigh*)
Oct 20 11:30:29 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9e7e0982bb6d 10/fsogsmd/src/plugins/modem_qualcomm_htc/htcparser.vala: 
Oct 20 11:30:29 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: qualcomm_htc: adjust parser to cope with the bogus intermediate bracket responses, such as '[WCDMA] Current
Oct 20 11:30:29 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: RRC Status = 0'
Oct 20 11:30:54 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re58d726a34f7 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcommands.vala atmediators.vala mediator.vala): fsogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.ListProviders() done.
Oct 20 12:23:48 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rfec89f988de7 10/fsogsmd/src/ (lib/atparser.vala plugins/modem_qualcomm_htc/htcparser.vala): fsogsmd: modem_qualcomm_htc: adjust parser for the HTC firmware bug wrt. ATV1 error messages
Oct 20 12:35:21 <Ddorda> hello. is there a ipk package for neoqplayer?
Oct 20 12:37:16 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * r304e7df1fd11 10/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
Oct 20 12:37:16 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: opimd: add signal handler for UnreadMessages
Oct 20 12:37:16 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de>
Oct 20 12:37:17 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * r3f8f68b0d986 10/src/Makefile.am: 
Oct 20 12:37:17 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: define G_LOG_DOMAIN
Oct 20 12:37:20 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de>
Oct 20 12:43:06 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re2839b1a9737 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: fix +FCLASS
Oct 20 13:08:03 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rf7553cbe724d 10/tools/serial_forward/ (GNUmakefile forward.c forward.h pty_forward.c): 
Oct 20 13:08:03 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: tools: add serial_forward to forward device nodes via TCP
Oct 20 13:08:03 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: Originally courtesy Holger 'Zecke' Freyther from Openmoko SVN
Oct 20 13:11:50 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r65c1146533e7 10framework/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git.freesmartphone.org:framework into dos/opimd-tracking
Oct 20 13:15:55 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03tom 07framework * rd48bd43c4303 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_generic.py: 
Oct 20 13:15:55 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: opimd: Numbers are sometimes sent as 'unicode', changed the checks to conform to that.
Oct 20 13:15:55 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: This solves the numbers not resolving issue. There's probably a bug somewhere else, though in the meanwhile this solves the issue.
Oct 20 13:15:56 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <seba.dos1@gmail.com>
Oct 20 13:33:35 <d1b> goodle is evil but google is not ;)
Oct 20 13:33:55 <d1b> erh damn it WAY to high up on page up...
Oct 20 13:33:56 * d1b ignore
Oct 20 13:38:30 <stongo> hello
Oct 20 13:39:31 <stongo> can someone help me configure dropbear on shr-u so I can ssh into the FR while staying connected to wifi?
Oct 20 13:42:26 <Ddorda> is there a rotate package for SHR?
Oct 20 13:44:04 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rcf64b68675bc 10/fsogsmd/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: call: add release cause in status update (if available)
Oct 20 14:09:22 <slaxxer> opkg.org?
Oct 20 14:10:39 <slaxxer> http://www.opkg.org/
Oct 20 14:12:19 <DocScrutinizer> or is that logrotate ;-)
Oct 20 14:13:02 <slaxxer> morning Doc
Oct 20 14:33:10 <beer> evening
Oct 20 14:33:28 <Ddorda> afternoon
Oct 20 14:42:51 <Ddorda> did anyone here tried the GBA app?
Oct 20 14:43:02 <Ddorda> on SHR
Oct 20 14:45:28 <d1b> GBA ?
Oct 20 14:45:43 <Ddorda> GameBoyAdvance
Oct 20 14:45:51 <d1b> OH
Oct 20 14:46:11 <Ddorda> i wanted to try it, but for some reason i just see a white screen...
Oct 20 15:07:56 <Ddorda> is it possible to edit the SHR launchers?
Oct 20 15:14:29 <slaxxer> http://dl.linuxphone.ru/openmoko/images/bytestore/screenshot_2009_01_11_112312_en/
Oct 20 15:14:51 <slaxxer> Ddorda  yes
Oct 20 15:16:00 <Ddorda> slaxxer: is there any guide for this? cause i didn't find anything in the wiki...
Oct 20 15:17:41 <slaxxer> do u mean eash icon?
Oct 20 15:17:55 <slaxxer> *each
Oct 20 15:22:09 <Ddorda> slaxxer: yes.. icons, text...
Oct 20 15:39:35 <tvmanukrishnan1> hi. does neo1973 has an external antenna for GPS reception? I am not receiving any signals in TangoGPS now
Oct 20 15:40:49 <lindi-> tvmanukrishnan1: neo1973 owner has not read the schematics? ;-)
Oct 20 15:41:00 <slaxxer> is there a small brass   hole in the side?
Oct 20 15:41:30 <tvmanukrishnan1> I got it from a friend. Just the moko. no other accessories with me.
Oct 20 15:42:06 <tvmanukrishnan1> slaxxer: ya there is a small brass hole. is there any external antenna to be connected there for better reception?
Oct 20 15:42:24 <slaxxer> the gta02 allows it
Oct 20 15:43:02 <pabs3> anyone remember the wiki page with the database of international/state phone number prefixes? 
Oct 20 15:43:14 * pabs3 can't find it any more
Oct 20 15:43:18 <PaulFertser> Same with gta01, it allows to connect an external antenna.
Oct 20 15:43:22 <slaxxer> i dont think theres an openmoko antenna
Oct 20 15:43:28 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: but i guess you have software problems
Oct 20 15:43:29 <tvmanukrishnan1> slaxxer: mine is gta01
Oct 20 15:43:46 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: is that stupid proprietary sucky daemon running?
Oct 20 15:44:00 <tvmanukrishnan1> the daemon is running
Oct 20 15:44:46 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: have you tried to get the signal outside waiting for at least 10 min?
Oct 20 15:44:49 <tvmanukrishnan1> I have TSR lite in the moko.
Oct 20 15:45:08 <slaxxer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/External_GPS_antennas#Arkon_External_GPS_Antenna_with_MMCX_connector
Oct 20 15:45:12 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: ya I tried
Oct 20 15:45:43 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: well, i'd suggest to right the evil daemon manually and check its output
Oct 20 15:45:58 <PaulFertser> s/right/run/
Oct 20 15:45:59 <apt> PaulFertser meant: tvmanukrishnan1: well, i'd suggest to run the evil daemon manually and check its output
Oct 20 15:46:28 <tvmanukrishnan1> apt: PaulFertser: how could I do it?
Oct 20 15:47:06 <Ddorda> slaxxer: well..?
Oct 20 15:47:23 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: well, there's a page on the wiki dedicated to the evil daemon.
Oct 20 15:47:47 <tvmanukrishnan1> let me look then
Oct 20 16:18:20 <tvmanukrishnan1> hi guys how can I check the GPS daemon is running in the moko? having a neo1973
Oct 20 16:21:22 <tvmanukrishnan1> hi, what will be the name of process for GPS daemon?
Oct 20 16:21:51 <lindi-> tvmanukrishnan1: there are multiple gps daemons you can choose from
Oct 20 16:22:02 <PaulFertser> lindi-: not really
Oct 20 16:22:19 <PaulFertser> lindi-: he's talking about the proprietary shit required on gta01
Oct 20 16:22:52 <tvmanukrishnan1> can someone tell me the name of it?
Oct 20 16:23:44 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: gllin
Oct 20 16:23:59 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: took me some googling to find, i've already forgot about it :)
Oct 20 16:25:35 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: I can't find it in the process list. Are you sure its the only one?
Oct 20 16:25:49 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: you told me it's running half an hour ago
Oct 20 16:25:56 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: you're supposed to install it separately
Oct 20 16:26:07 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: after you do that, it will be run automatically by the frameworkd.
Oct 20 16:26:18 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: if you use FSO-based distro, of course.
Oct 20 16:26:43 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: I am new to the deviice just 2 days with it. Installed TSR lite and nothing more
Oct 20 16:27:14 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: i think i don't know what TSR is
Oct 20 16:27:20 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: can you spare a link?
Oct 20 16:28:17 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: sorry it was SHR.. my mistake
Oct 20 16:28:18 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: to the best of my knowledge the best phone distro for gta01 is the latest SHR unstable.
Oct 20 16:28:21 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: ok
Oct 20 16:28:36 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: SHR doesn't distribute that proprietary daemon so you have to download it separately.
Oct 20 16:28:58 <sjd> PaulFertser: gpsd is proprietary?
Oct 20 16:29:30 <PaulFertser> sjd: of course not
Oct 20 16:30:20 <sjd> PaulFertser: so the device is not using gpsd? 
Oct 20 16:30:20 <PaulFertser> sjd: but gta01 has a chip that uses hammerhead (or smth like that) proprietary low-level protocol and a special user-space daemon to interpret it.
Oct 20 16:30:36 <sjd> PaulFertser: oh i get that. so tvmanukrishnan1 has to download the daemon seperately
Oct 20 16:30:40 <PaulFertser> sjd: exactly
Oct 20 16:30:45 <sjd> tvmanukrishnan1: did you spot the daemon?
Oct 20 16:30:56 <tvmanukrishnan1> ya... me looking for it
Oct 20 16:31:21 <PaulFertser> sjd: and then he can use gpsd, yes. But SHR by default uses FSO way to access gps, so no need for gpsd unless you really want it and know how to configure it.
Oct 20 16:31:23 <tvmanukrishnan1> me here now: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gpsd
Oct 20 16:32:01 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin
Oct 20 16:32:12 <tvmanukrishnan1> ya found it
Oct 20 16:32:15 <sjd> PaulFertser: okay.
Oct 20 16:33:16 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: download the latest 1.1 ipk
Oct 20 16:33:30 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: install it, turn off _all_ gps apps. 
Oct 20 16:33:40 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: probably you'll need to fully reboot, but i guess no.
Oct 20 16:33:51 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1:  then start any gps app and fso will start gllin automatically.
Oct 20 16:34:10 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: can I intall it manually. no network access yet on moko
Oct 20 16:34:40 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: yes, you can install with "opkg install ./blabla.ipk" just fine
Oct 20 16:35:11 <tvmanukrishnan1> thanks... let me try it out
Oct 20 16:47:51 <tvmanukrishnan1> can I directly access the SD card inside the moko from PC as a storage device?
Oct 20 16:49:25 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: i'm afraid no, since udc driver seems to have problems with that :((
Oct 20 16:49:36 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: i haven't tried on gta01 but on gta02 it doesn't work with modern PCs.
Oct 20 16:49:52 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: why do not you use usb networking and scp the file?
Oct 20 16:50:44 <tvmanukrishnan1> I am having problems with firefall.. its not getting connected
Oct 20 16:50:58 <tvmanukrishnan1> I can't do ssh to it
Oct 20 16:51:25 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: disable firewall temporarily then.
Oct 20 16:52:10 <tvmanukrishnan1> I haven't installed any firewall. :( 
Oct 20 16:52:15 <tvmanukrishnan1> still says port 22 blocked
Oct 20 16:52:34 <tvmanukrishnan1> let me try once more
Oct 20 16:52:59 <PaulFertser> tvmanukrishnan1: modern distros always configure Linux kernel with iptables enabled so i doubt that.
Oct 20 16:53:25 <tvmanukrishnan1> I am not much familiar with it..
Oct 20 16:53:27 <panicking> Hi PaulFertser , Buenos Dia, good morning :)
Oct 20 16:53:51 <PaulFertser> panicking: hey hey :)
Oct 20 16:56:09 <Ddorda> what are phoneuid phonefsod libphoneui?
Oct 20 17:18:48 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: failed in usb networking
Oct 20 17:19:21 <tvmanukrishnan1> PaulFertser: will try installing by copying to SD card tomorrow. Thanks for the help
Oct 20 17:34:40 <Ddorda> did anyone here ever tried to install DOOM on the OM?
Oct 20 17:41:17 <panicking> PaulFertser, #1024 people on android ask me how to test it. But I don't have idea
Oct 20 17:41:21 <panicking> I'm fixed it
Oct 20 17:41:38 <panicking> with the same hack of shr
Oct 20 17:44:37 <vanous123> panicking: what would be useful is optional settings for those, who have the 1024 fix done
Oct 20 17:52:25 <panicking> vanous123, why we need an option
Oct 20 17:52:37 <panicking> if the hardware is fixed the
Oct 20 17:52:45 <panicking> recamping function is never called
Oct 20 17:52:53 <panicking> I use a slide window of 4 minute
Oct 20 17:53:13 <panicking> The only think that remains to fix is the use of flowcontrolled
Oct 20 17:53:15 <vanous123> to check?
Oct 20 17:53:40 <vanous123> i see
Oct 20 17:53:56 <panicking> Now is fixed the calendar too
Oct 20 17:54:01 <panicking> so we can use the google calendar
Oct 20 17:54:04 <panicking> very nice
Oct 20 17:55:04 <vanous123> great
Oct 20 17:55:12 <CIA-44> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra41cae9df1af 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/openmoko_powercontrol/plugin.vala: fsodeviced: openmoko_powercontrol: add UsbHost resource
Oct 20 18:31:09 <j_14> Hello.  Does the Neo Freerunner have a connector for an external WiFi antenna?  Please excuse me if this is not the correct channel for that subject.
Oct 20 18:31:36 <mjr> does not (and yes it is)
Oct 20 18:32:35 <PaulFertser> mjr: are you sure?
Oct 20 18:32:48 <mjr> well, not an external connector anyway
Oct 20 18:34:51 <PaulFertser> mjr: what is the RF connector near wlan for?
Oct 20 18:35:21 <PaulFertser> mjr: ah, it's for GSM, sorry.
Oct 20 18:35:50 <PaulFertser> mjr: but isn't there a connector on WLAN card itself?
Oct 20 18:37:06 <PaulFertser> j_14: iirc there's a connector on WLAN board.
Oct 20 18:38:05 <j_14> PaulFertser: Thats what I'm guessing because the Wifi module's datasheet does'nt say anything about an antenna, so I assume its extenal to the module.
Oct 20 19:22:12 <PaulFertser> j_14: no, it has an internal antenna and a connector for external.
Oct 20 19:22:34 <PaulFertser> j_14: take a look at upper left corner of http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/thumb/f/f6/Can_opened.jpg/800px-Can_opened.jpg
Oct 20 19:22:49 <PaulFertser> j_14: the large block with "X" is the internal antenna.
Oct 20 19:22:58 <PaulFertser> j_14: and to the left of it is the connector.
Oct 20 19:23:05 <PaulFertser> mjr: you see?
Oct 20 19:27:03 <j_14> PaulFertser: Is the wireless module under the antenna?
Oct 20 19:27:22 <PaulFertser> j_14: no
Oct 20 19:27:52 <PaulFertser> j_14: the wireless module is the additional board glued to the shield on the left.
Oct 20 19:32:58 <j_14> PaulFertser: what model is that? A6? (sorry, i'm not familiar with this hardware)
Oct 20 19:33:38 <PaulFertser> j_14: A6 is in the photo, yes. Why do you ask? The wifi module is idential on all gta02 models afaik.
Oct 20 19:40:15 <j_14> http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/a/af/Gta02a5_pcba_cs.JPG Take a look at that picture.  Is the antenna in a board that is missing on that picture?
Oct 20 19:44:41 <PaulFertser> j_14: the whole wifi module is missing. You can see the connector for it in the lower right part of the photo (white stuff to the left of big golden ring).
Oct 20 19:56:10 <j_14> PaulFertser: Thanks. You've been very helpful.
Oct 20 19:56:50 <PaulFertser> j_14: you're welcome
Oct 20 20:08:19 <henry-nicolas> Hello everybody, I did just buy a freerunner (and it's really very great), I installed qtmoko. I'v got a simple question : where do I need to put my mp3 files in order to get them recognized by the media player ?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 20:16:14 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 22:16:15 2009
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 22:56:54 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 23:36:15 2009
Oct 20 23:50:48 <CIA-44> openmoko: 03werner * r5698 10/trunk/eda/fped/fped.c: 
Oct 20 23:50:48 <CIA-44> openmoko: For future extensions.
Oct 20 23:50:48 <CIA-44> openmoko: - fped.c: added cpp-like command-line options -D, -U, and -I
Oct 21 01:06:47 <mostly_useless> has anyone played around with solar cells with the freerunner?
Oct 21 01:07:13 <mostly_useless> I'm thinking about finding some small enough and making a replacement back panel.
Oct 21 01:09:50 <raster> mostly_useless: very unlikely to be able to power it
Oct 21 01:09:59 <raster> just act as an extra small source of power - sure.
Oct 21 01:11:29 <mostly_useless> raster: I disagree. some of the tiny cells I've seen for garden lamps generate almost 100ma/h at 2vdc. a few of them in the correct series, and  think you may be able to get a nice trickle charge.
Oct 21 01:11:58 <SpeedEvil> The back panel has an area of approximately 5cm*5cm free.
Oct 21 01:12:24 <mostly_useless> it'd be a neat idea to cope with the discharged battery issue.
Oct 21 01:12:34 <SpeedEvil> Sunlight is 1KW/m^2 ish - and 150W/m^2 once you get past a relatively efficient solar cell.
Oct 21 01:12:42 <raster> u'd need about 2w to safely fully pwoer the gta02
Oct 21 01:12:50 <raster> maybe 1.5
Oct 21 01:13:04 <raster> more if u want to charge it
Oct 21 01:13:35 <SpeedEvil> 5cm*5cm is 1/400th of a square meter, or perhaps .35W - in desert sun, pointed at the sun.
Oct 21 01:13:50 <SpeedEvil> Call it .2W - in normal conditions in sunlight. 
Oct 21 01:13:52 <raster> yup
Oct 21 01:13:56 <raster> as i said. unlikely to power it
Oct 21 01:14:08 <raster> mmight provide a little extra juice
Oct 21 01:14:11 <SpeedEvil> In short - an AA cell and a boost circuit is going to be _lots_ better
Oct 21 01:14:14 <raster> but it wont charge the batteries if the gta02 is on
Oct 21 01:14:20 <raster> it'll just reduce drain rate a little
Oct 21 01:14:52 <SpeedEvil> And .05W or so if you leave it out in a sunny location all the time
Oct 21 01:15:02 <mostly_useless> raster: trickle charge. simply to extend the battery life, and also enough to boot in the event of a dead battery for ac charging purposes. what else is the back used for? dead space.
Oct 21 01:15:34 <raster> mostly_useless: sure... as i said., u cant POWER the gta02. u can get a little extra juice.
Oct 21 01:15:49 <raster> and i doubt its enough to boot.
Oct 21 01:15:52 <SpeedEvil> mostly_useless: unfortunately, in order to not have the solar cell shatter, you're going to need maybe another 3-4mm or so.
Oct 21 01:15:56 <raster> to boot u'd need 0.5w
Oct 21 01:16:09 <SpeedEvil> So it's going to be quite a lot deeper
Oct 21 01:16:16 <raster> once u turn on wifi, gsm, etc. etc. and have the cpu fully up u'll be sucking much more
Oct 21 01:17:30 <mostly_useless> well, thank you for the mathematical pessimism, but I may in fact make that a sunday project of mine. :-)
Oct 21 01:17:49 <SpeedEvil> Fair enough - it's not a 100% bad idea
Oct 21 01:18:04 <SpeedEvil> Oh - if you can get the better solar cells double those numbers. 
Oct 21 01:18:15 <SpeedEvil> You can get double that efficiency - but you can't get them. 
Oct 21 01:18:23 <SpeedEvil> Triple junction goodness.
Oct 21 01:20:01 <mostly_useless> I've heard about that. I haven't began the solar cell hunt yet though. just an idea I felt like pinging off of this channel. I think it'd be a nice little addition to the phone. definitely get some extra looks of astonishment from people.
Oct 21 01:20:59 <raster> mostly_useless:  just beware that u'll still need batteries. no removing them and just running off solar
Oct 21 01:21:14 <raster> not sure if solar will charge while gta02 is suspended
Oct 21 01:21:28 <mostly_useless> I've also thought about finding a usb camera small enough that I could embed into the case and put the phone into host mode. that'll take a lot of extra researching
Oct 21 01:21:30 <raster> not sure what the power measurements are these days ith suspend, and just gsm unit on
Oct 21 01:22:07 <SpeedEvil> What I want to know is why is there no solar hat, with a gimballed 20cm*20cm solar panel that auto-tracks the sun.
Oct 21 01:22:19 <mjr> recall that the cam would need to be able to operate with usb full speed
Oct 21 01:22:39 <mjr> (some may require hi speed)
Oct 21 01:23:05 <SpeedEvil> http://www.sei.ie/images_upload/Schools/Primary_Schools/Energy_in_Action/Energy_Fancy_Dress/Wood%20pellet%20Solar%20Fairy_.jpg Is close.
Oct 21 01:23:18 <SpeedEvil> But I have doubts as to the efficiency of the solar panel
Oct 21 01:23:23 <mostly_useless> mjr: that's a project that is a little out of my technical knowledge at the moment, but again; a fun project.
Oct 21 01:23:52 <SpeedEvil> mjr: many cameras work just fine on 1.1
Oct 21 01:25:11 <mostly_useless> by bypassing the usb port, and charging the battery directly, it shouldn't matter the wattage. it's still going to prolong the drain.
Oct 21 01:25:32 <raster> mostly_useless: if you do that... how do you intend to charge?
Oct 21 01:26:01 <raster> or do u plan to have an unpluggable cable poking out the side of the gta02 that u unplug when charging?
Oct 21 01:26:10 <raster> 2442 only has 1 usb conn
Oct 21 01:26:58 <SpeedEvil> Aha!
Oct 21 01:27:08 <mostly_useless> raster: some sort of switch which disables the cells, and reestablishes the usb connection.
Oct 21 01:27:14 <SpeedEvil> http://www.suntrek.org/images/hinode-hat.jpg The clear solution. now _that_'ll power a freerunner.
Oct 21 01:27:42 <mjr> is it a nuclear reactor?
Oct 21 01:28:18 <SpeedEvil> Solar panel
Oct 21 01:28:35 <SpeedEvil> With convenient wearability.
Oct 21 01:29:14 <mjr> this would probably provide useful amounts of power on the run, were it still not unavailable to the public; http://www.potenco.com/products/pcg1/
Oct 21 01:29:17 <raster> mostly_useless:  ok.
Oct 21 01:29:43 <raster> thats going to be fun - u'll have to desolder the usb connnector and somehow put it bhack in places with something stuck in between
Oct 21 01:30:38 <raster> mjr:  much better. actually might get you to do some exercise too
Oct 21 01:30:38 <raster> :)
Oct 21 01:30:38 <SpeedEvil> raster: I investigated making a jig to solder to the back of the connector
Oct 21 01:30:38 <SpeedEvil> raster: It's not impossible
Oct 21 01:30:38 <SpeedEvil> raster: but...
Oct 21 01:30:56 <raster> aaah. the but
Oct 21 01:30:58 <raster> :)
Oct 21 01:31:53 <SpeedEvil> I got a relatively easy design with flex-pcb stuff. But sourcing in small volumes is almost impossible
Oct 21 01:32:08 <SpeedEvil> I have the actual film - but I can't shear it accurately in wierd shapes
Oct 21 01:33:17 <raster> so basically.. cant do it unless u want to do it a lot of times
Oct 21 01:33:21 <raster> :)
Oct 21 01:33:39 <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
Oct 21 01:34:00 <raster> i like that pcg1 thing
Oct 21 01:34:10 <SpeedEvil> Yes. I've pondered something similar.
Oct 21 01:34:12 <raster> tho i'm not away from power enough to bother with it
Oct 21 01:34:14 <SpeedEvil> 1*A123 cell
Oct 21 01:34:24 <SpeedEvil> A little foot-pump type thing
Oct 21 01:34:46 <SpeedEvil> And charge the cell at ~100W or so 
Oct 21 01:34:54 <SpeedEvil> (in pulses, average 25W)
Oct 21 01:35:37 <SpeedEvil> (a123 = company making LiFeP04 cells - that can be charged very fast)
Oct 21 01:36:13 <raster> aah ok
Oct 21 01:37:04 <SpeedEvil> One of the few sorts of cells you can charge fully in ~10 min
Oct 21 01:38:26 <SpeedEvil> http://bunniestudios.com/blog/images/ntw_october_2009.jpg
Oct 21 01:38:37 <SpeedEvil> Source _that_ sort of stuff in small volumes :)
Oct 21 01:40:09 <raster> mmmm
Oct 21 01:40:20 <raster> for a board... thats pretty simple
Oct 21 01:40:24 <raster> :)
Oct 21 01:41:13 <SpeedEvil> yeah - but the flex-pcb in the middle adds wackiness.
Oct 21 01:41:41 <raster> sure
Oct 21 01:43:09 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't seem very complex - I think there is probably hidden stuff on the back of the board otherwise there are too many traces
Oct 21 02:34:52 <slaxxer> how about some solar cell paint
Oct 21 02:36:29 <slaxxer> power film
Oct 21 02:42:06 <slaxxer> i found it   "nanotube solar cells
Oct 21 02:42:10 <slaxxer> "
Oct 21 02:43:13 <slaxxer> http://www.edn.com/blog/1470000147/post/890049689.html
Oct 21 02:43:35 <slaxxer> Doc can build it for us
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 21 02:59:59 2009