**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 13 02:59:57 2009 Nov 13 05:16:00 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r4f27d0c4c4fc 10/.gitignore: merge Nov 13 07:18:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rc8006fcbe7a0 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Nov 13 07:18:40 freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: install dbus configuration files and iso-3166-1 datafile Nov 13 07:18:40 freesmartphone.org: iso-3166-1 has been downloaded from http://www.iso.org/iso Nov 13 07:32:22 hi,all.who uses qtextend Distributions? I want to know how to set fonts config though shell. Nov 13 08:03:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r0742707f0fbe 10/fsogsmd/ (configure.ac src/lib/mbpi.vala): fsogsmd: compute PACKAGE_DATADIR Nov 13 08:04:40 Psi: (leave me phone running and on charge next to the PC) this doesn't guarantee a full battery. I'm afraid it's the opposite, especially for gta01. I think as soon as the battery reaches "full" state, the charger will be disabled (or switched to ~40mA) and probably your device will draw ~100mA from the battery until it completely discharges and then the device will shut down. Nov 13 08:05:10 pcf50606 is really fucked up comparing to pcf50633 Nov 13 08:06:52 PaulFertser: works fine for me Nov 13 08:06:56 infact, i have to do it Nov 13 08:07:07 if i let the phone suspend i end up with a totally flat battery Nov 13 08:07:20 *suspended Nov 13 08:07:35 Psi: i think it'd be nice if you explained why it works the way you say :) Nov 13 08:07:57 ive just always left it running next to me pc Nov 13 08:08:02 me=my Nov 13 08:08:30 i dunno why it works for me, it just always has Nov 13 08:10:36 i always get the yellow charging icon when the phone is pluged in Nov 13 08:10:56 never seen it go away except when i unplug it from the pc Nov 13 08:15:49 Psi: hm, this is interesting, that would explain it. Nov 13 08:15:57 Psi: and shorten the battery life at the same time Nov 13 08:16:57 just took the back off my phone and put the battery to my face (to check temp) Nov 13 08:17:12 not even warm Nov 13 08:17:19 just above body temp Nov 13 08:17:23 Psi: btw, i compiled an experimental Qi version that enables fast charge on boot unconditionally, i think that should allow to boot even with an almost completely flat battery. Nov 13 08:17:34 Psi: have you read Battery Questions and Answers wikipage? Nov 13 08:17:48 dont think i have Nov 13 08:20:25 Psi: i'd advice to do that Nov 13 08:20:52 i might not like what it says though :P Nov 13 08:20:56 Psi: also looking at pcf50606 mbc state transitions diagram i think i can understand why you end up with flat battery while suspended. Nov 13 08:22:10 Psi: all in all, it looks like combination of pcf50606 and unreliable current metering in gta01 makes gentle battery handling impossible so the only good way to go is to modify gta01 (change one R) to accept native nokia batteries. Nov 13 08:22:37 So you just can have a spare any time you need it. Nov 13 08:26:28 Psi: btw, i now see that some gta01 info in there is incorrect, will fix it soon. Nov 13 08:28:28 PaulFertser: it enables fast charge and then boots linux? Nov 13 08:29:02 PaulFertser: how about adding a mode where it enables fast charge and sleeps until the battery has charged to, say, 5%? Nov 13 08:29:03 lindi-: yes Nov 13 08:29:45 lindi-: but what for? 500mA is enough to boot linux and then userspace and then you can do whatever you want. Nov 13 08:29:55 PaulFertser: is it enough to boot linux if gsm is used? Nov 13 08:29:57 lindi-: it's also only for gta01. Nov 13 08:30:51 lindi-: it's assumed you have gsm turned off when the phone is off. And then after you boot it's up to the userspace to enable gsm (you can add a check to the startup scripts). Nov 13 08:31:24 lindi-: with the latest kernel it's possible to fully boot gta02 a6 without battery. Nov 13 08:31:35 (i've not tried it myself yet) Nov 13 08:32:07 PaulFertser: what's latest kernel? Nov 13 08:32:15 PaulFertser: here I don't even get to boot loader Nov 13 08:32:21 PaulFertser: but this is a5 Nov 13 08:32:24 lindi-: a5 :( Nov 13 08:32:32 Lack of capacitor, as usual :) Nov 13 08:33:03 ah, fortunately I have this other phone too, just haven't had time to do anything with it yet Nov 13 08:33:51 Reading pcf50606 manual makes me sad Nov 13 08:33:54 And demotivated Nov 13 08:34:40 And i should still try to push its driver upstream, probably reworking it a bit so it fits the latest driver-writing guidelines :( Nov 13 08:35:03 I can't see how to use pcf50606 in a sane way... Nov 13 08:41:24 DocScrutinizer: hey :) Do you by any chance know why the hell OM kernel devs didn't properly collaborate with upstream right from the start? Nov 13 09:01:39 morning Nov 13 09:32:43 beer: morning Nov 13 09:32:49 beer: you've just reminded me of something .... Nov 13 09:56:49 * Weiss enjoys the latest XKCD Nov 13 09:57:31 particularly relevant here I think :) Nov 13 10:02:18 * lindi- used openmoko yesterday to share gprs with wifi and then calypso crashed :( Nov 13 10:04:06 Good day everyone , Which Bluetooth headphone works fine with FR ? Nov 13 10:05:48 lindi-: share via bluetooth ... ? Nov 13 10:06:18 PaulFertser: hi Nov 13 10:06:42 alabd: hey :) Nov 13 10:07:01 how are you ok ? Paulf Nov 13 10:07:32 anyone used bluetooth headphone with FR ? Nov 13 10:08:02 alabd: there's info on the wiki about supported headsets. Nov 13 10:08:08 alabd: i'm ok, how're you? Nov 13 10:08:29 thanks god Nov 13 10:09:28 alabd: wiki.openmoko.org Nov 13 10:09:30 alabd: Hey, it turns out my friend just saw the price on openmoko.net, which I guess might ship from the US (what you were looking at already) Nov 13 10:09:56 Rakhun: it's important to get 900MHz version and not US-specific 850. Nov 13 10:10:02 PaulFertser: would you tell exactly which electronical parts you have changed here to see if they are not in iran be got from foreign Nov 13 10:10:34 Rakhun: hi what was price? Nov 13 10:10:37 alabd: buzzfix: 0402 or 0603 2.2k R and 100uF tantalum or ceramic cap "size C" or smaller. Nov 13 10:10:54 alabd: 1024 fix: quality ceramic cap 22uF 0805 6.3V Nov 13 10:11:05 alabd: 250$ Nov 13 10:11:34 where Rakhun Nov 13 10:11:42 PaulFertser: prefect thanks Nov 13 10:12:13 alabd: http://openmoko.net Nov 13 10:13:55 Rakhun: which one http://openmoko.net/distributors.html ? Nov 13 10:15:08 alabd: I'd guess he just clicked the big sales link.. he didn't have any more detailed directions Nov 13 10:16:12 Rakhun: http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner this ?yes that is 250$ Nov 13 10:16:34 but post it to sweden will be 100$ or more ... Nov 13 10:20:30 yeah, I guess he did not consider that Nov 13 10:21:03 (nor the GSM frequency thing) Nov 13 10:23:14 .c Nov 13 10:23:14 yes Nov 13 10:23:30 anyone used bluetooth headphone with FR ? Nov 13 10:24:22 alabd: the wiki Nov 13 10:24:38 alabd: has list of nick names of people who have Nov 13 10:28:27 lindi-: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=support+headset&go=Go Nov 13 10:40:30 alabd: yes there in the "list .." Nov 13 11:01:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards here in that page which one of Supp. Nov 13 11:01:19 Wear- Nov 13 11:01:19 level. Supp. Nov 13 11:01:19 ECC u-boot 1.1.6 linux 2.6.17.14-fic5 u-boot 1.2.0-moko8 svn1915 u-boot 1.3.2-moko12 linux 2.6.24+git75969 (2008.8 kernel as of Sept. 4, 2008) OM2008.9's kernel are important to memory supports it .. Nov 13 11:07:31 In this page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards which one of these : Nov 13 11:07:31 Supp.Wear-level. Supp.ECC u-boot 1.1.6 linux 2.6.17.14-fic5 u-boot 1.2.0-moko8 svn1915 u-boot 1.3.2-moko12 linux 2.6.24+git75969 (2008.8 kernel as of Sept. 4, 2008) OM2008.9's kernel Is better to memory supports ? Nov 13 11:28:59 lindi-: would you give it's link (has list of nick names of people who have) Nov 13 11:40:51 which parts buzz will be omitt after c-rework fix ? Nov 13 11:41:15 which parts buzz will be omited after c-rework fix Nov 13 11:47:00 alabd: what? Nov 13 11:47:30 lindi-: Does buzz remain with BT headset ... Nov 13 11:51:44 alabd: i have not been able to test myself :) Nov 13 11:52:56 alabd: my bluetooth headset does not work with FR Nov 13 12:13:53 why it does no work with FR ? Nov 13 12:17:30 and where is list of nick names of people who have bluetooth that you mentioned .? Nov 13 12:20:19 where are those Bluetooth headsets that wroked with FR listed ? Nov 13 12:22:43 alabd: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/List_of_bluetooth_headsets Nov 13 13:52:17 PaulFertser: that's a question for Werner, or Andi, or maybe Mickey Nov 13 15:09:22 hello Nov 13 15:16:40 Good day everyone , Is anyone here from pulster.de ? Nov 13 15:24:54 what happened to tuxbrain and pulster prices today ? Nov 13 15:46:13 199 at tux Nov 13 15:47:00 229 at pultser Nov 13 15:52:12 slaxxer: no tux is 441 USD (299 EUR) .... why you say 199 ? Nov 13 15:56:12 where does it say it's 299? Nov 13 15:57:25 yes it was surpriser maybe today prices have been changed see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributors Nov 13 15:57:33 oh, A7 is 299 Nov 13 15:58:07 Bane^: yes does tux have A6 ? Nov 13 15:59:37 * DocScrutinizer-8 is amazed how much of a difference his buzzfix is worth Nov 13 16:00:56 you could have made millions ;) Nov 13 16:01:42 I *should* :-P Nov 13 16:02:11 rather they decided to set me free Nov 13 16:02:31 though I wasn't the only one... Nov 13 16:03:40 Nobody is actually employed ATM in any aspect of phones from OM-corporate? Nov 13 16:04:04 not afaik Nov 13 16:05:15 seems atm OM is ~1..5 guys/gals Nov 13 16:05:34 I wonder how many actual units the wikireader thing is moving Nov 13 16:05:46 yeah Nov 13 16:06:08 though honestly I probably couldn't care less Nov 13 16:07:34 which shop sales A6 cheaper ? Nov 13 16:08:44 alabd: isn't it simple enough to check by yourself? Nov 13 16:09:31 it's not exact DocScrutinizer Nov 13 16:10:53 DocScrutinizer-8: some prices has been changed perhaps .. Nov 13 16:12:27 alabd: there's quite a number of resellers, and nobody here has any means better than yours to find out their current pricing Nov 13 16:13:26 and I don't think prices changed recently Nov 13 16:15:21 damn, my Konversation client has constant relogin habit today :-S Nov 13 16:15:47 DocScrutinizer-8: try irssi :) Nov 13 16:16:16 to rule out it's a client caused issue? Nov 13 16:17:06 I'm more concerned sth with my whole system might be fishy Nov 13 16:17:09 no :) Nov 13 16:17:20 because irssi is nice Nov 13 16:18:23 hm... "17:13 -!- DocScrutinizer [n=jr@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]" doesn't that mean it is not your client? Nov 13 16:18:25 as it's not a simple connectivity issue, as I can tell from this device here using same modem-router Nov 13 16:18:48 and no relogins here Nov 13 16:19:53 Archimedes: no, that's Konversation ghosting my previous login on reconnect Nov 13 16:20:39 ah, ok, fist it ghosts, and then it joins again^^ Nov 13 16:21:10 Archimedes: yep, basically Nov 13 16:21:46 the disconnect happened some 3 min earlier though Nov 13 16:24:22 [2009-11-13 17:13:22] [Fehler] Verbindung zu Server irc.freenode.org abgebrochen: Kein Fehler. Nov 13 16:24:26 [2009-11-13 17:13:35] [Willkommen] Welcome to the freenode IRC Network DocScrutinizer2 Nov 13 16:24:36 [2009-11-13 17:13:42] *** Das Kanalthema lautet: "Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join Nov 13 16:25:37 [2009-11-13 17:13:33] [Spitzname] Spitzname wird bereits benutzt. Versuche DocScrutinizer2. Nov 13 16:25:42 [2009-11-13 17:13:36] [Notice] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . Nov 13 16:25:42 [2009-11-13 17:13:37] [Notice] -NickServ- You are now identified for jOERG_rw. Nov 13 16:25:42 [2009-11-13 17:13:37] [901] jOERG_rw n=jr 200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net You are now logged in. (id jOERG_rw, username n=jr, hostname 200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) Nov 13 16:25:43 [2009-11-13 17:13:38] [Notice] -NickServ- DocScrutinizer has been ghosted. Nov 13 17:31:25 panicking: hi Nov 13 17:31:31 hi Nov 13 17:34:42 DocScrutinizer-8, are you there? Nov 13 17:37:28 Q-Master, what is your real name? Nov 13 17:39:07 panicking: Vladimir Nov 13 18:41:34 hallo, does anyone know an easy way to count gprs traffic on the freerunner? Nov 13 18:54:57 is there a way to know the telephone number from mdbus? Nov 13 19:15:41 hmm i plan to buy a openmoko but someone told me that the microphone suckz and the battery runtime is very low? can someone tell me something about it? Nov 13 19:17:48 thomas_sch: I know of "proper" phones with shorter battery life, and by "microphone", you probably mean the buzz problem which is fixed as long as you take care to buy version A7 (or later) Nov 13 19:20:36 i think he ment the issue that the battery discharges when fully charged Nov 13 19:21:27 I *think* that one's fixed already. I certainly haven't heard complaints about it for a long tim Nov 13 19:21:30 time* Nov 13 19:21:42 (the problem where you can, e.g. charge up overnight yet wake up to a flat battery) Nov 13 19:23:26 thomas_sch: this is a no-issue - a misperception Nov 13 19:24:59 Weiss: (or later) ;-D Nov 13 19:34:18 obey: ifconfig? Nov 13 19:38:30 one question, is openmoko compatible with moto droid? Nov 13 19:39:46 or another android devices Nov 13 19:41:05 and even windows mobile, symbian or blackberries, or etc Nov 13 19:41:06 yes, Freerunner is a device with Android that's actually mostly compatible with OM Nov 13 19:42:32 wasn't originally freerunner designed to run with openmoko? Nov 13 19:43:00 nicfer: can you install a win-mobile of e.g. samsung on even any other brand winmoob hardware? Nov 13 19:43:11 you can't Nov 13 19:45:01 for same reason not any OS is "compatible" with a particular platform. You might ask if there's someone working on a port of OM to any platform other than Neo. The answer for moto droid is: I dunno Nov 13 19:48:30 I mean, installing it on other phones that weren't designed to run with OM (at least as the merchasing says) Nov 13 19:49:07 like when you install linux on dell or hp machines that came with vista Nov 13 19:49:37 OM has to essentially be completely customised per phone it runs on Nov 13 19:49:42 nicfer: dell and hp ***X86** machines, no? Nov 13 19:49:44 PCs are largely the same internally Nov 13 19:49:57 Mobile phones differ - sometimes a bit - sometimes drastically Nov 13 19:50:08 And there are often few or no duocuments on the components. Nov 13 19:50:09 mostly drastically Nov 13 19:50:19 meaning that it can be really, really hard to port. Nov 13 19:50:49 and there will be no compatibility out of the box anyway Nov 13 19:51:15 Yes. Nov 13 19:51:23 like "is macintosh compatible to windows" Nov 13 19:51:32 You can't put OM on a random phone, and have it sort of work, but some drivers not be there. Nov 13 19:51:50 It's like you have to do considerable work to get to the point where it doesn't boot properly. Nov 13 19:52:47 then why does android work correctly on freerunner being this not android compatible? Nov 13 19:53:14 someone ported android for freerunner Nov 13 19:53:50 and it was a hell of work and isn't really finished yet Nov 13 19:55:10 the inverse way should work for OM on other phones, but there are hundreds of them and will be hundred times harder Nov 13 19:55:11 it's like asking "is a VW Golf motor compatible to Daihatsu cars?" Nov 13 19:55:37 nicfer: now you got it :-) Nov 13 20:00:39 Porting anything to OM hardware is lots, lots, lots eeasier as you have docs Nov 13 20:00:41 and porting android to freerunner isn't against OM's goal? Nov 13 20:00:43 nicfer: actually OM has been ported to a few other devices Nov 13 20:00:47 OM has no goal. Nov 13 20:01:17 nicfer: OM the Inc is selling HW Nov 13 20:01:51 OM is out of the phone buisness ATM Nov 13 20:02:21 and encouraged community to do whatever they like with it - even port Android to it ;-) Nov 13 20:02:34 SpeedEvil: not entirely Nov 13 20:02:50 OM still selling FR Nov 13 20:06:57 Speaking of which, has Sean or anyone high up there said anything about whether they plan to remain in the FR business now they appear to have sold out their existing stock of older A6 units? The Buy Now link now only says to buy from local distributor. Are they planning to make more someday? Is anybody or any community group actually going anything with the freed wiring diagrams CAD files etc? Nov 13 20:08:05 Well - yes. Nov 13 20:08:09 Not quite entirely. Nov 13 20:08:33 idarwin: A community group can't do anything with the diagrams directly. Nov 13 20:08:56 idarwin: It would need a substantial slice of $100K to do a small run of phones at a sane price. Nov 13 20:09:14 idarwin: there's plenty of A7 on stock at OM Nov 13 20:09:18 idarwin: As some parts are not available. Nov 13 20:10:17 Speedevil yes, understood, a community group would therefore need to pre-sell ~400 units, which aint gonna happen anytime soon. Nov 13 20:10:29 AIUI world won't run short of new FR ever Nov 13 20:12:25 And, are there any distros today on which current phones (say, A7) never ever ever get the 'totally dead battery' symptom that requires you to either use non-std charging or take the battery out and charge it ext. or pop in a battery from a Nokia to bootstrap the charging? Nov 13 20:12:45 GTA02-core has the horrible problem that it's too late. Nov 13 20:12:45 A large fraction of the potential users will get a n900. Nov 13 20:12:49 * Rakhun is curious about how far you can get with those cads and a reprap Nov 13 20:13:00 Another fraction will only not get the n900 as they can't afford it. Which means you're competing on price. Nov 13 20:13:07 Which is utterly horrible. Nov 13 20:13:09 idarwin: A7 has no such problem with bat Nov 13 20:13:11 Rakhun: you can make the case. Nov 13 20:13:23 Rakhun: you cannot make a 8 (?) layer PCB at home. Nov 13 20:13:33 ok Nov 13 20:13:52 Rakhun: and populating a mobile phone class board at home - while in principle is possible - is _damn_ hard, and your yields will be shit. Nov 13 20:14:20 hehe, I can imagine :) Nov 13 20:14:24 Does everyone agree with DocScrutinizer about the A7 never ever having the horrible battery problem? Nov 13 20:14:48 In other words, re: build your own, "Don't try this at home, kids" :-) Nov 13 20:14:48 ~docscrutinizer Nov 13 20:14:53 docscrutinizer is probably jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Nov 13 20:14:58 Adding the fact that you cannot buy easily many of the components Nov 13 20:21:59 SpeedEvil: plus the fact gta02-core is about implementing the process, not about building a device with any practical use or even attractivity Nov 13 20:25:47 idarwin: so I think you can take my word. A7 has my buzzfix applied, and a large capacitor on Vsys so it always starts even without battery Nov 13 20:30:31 iirc uboot refused to continue though :) haven't tried the scenario with Qi yet Nov 13 20:32:35 Rakhun: there've been borked uBoot versions, that's true. But that's a sw-problem, as the hw actually is up and running when uBoot is starting Nov 13 20:33:04 yep, I didn't mean anything was wrong with the hardware :) Nov 13 20:37:43 I did a test with A7 this very moment. Without bat, FR A7 doesn't boot from arbitrary charger, but it boots fine from NOR uBoot with original OM charger Nov 13 20:40:55 so official OM recommendation whenever you're facing flat bat problem is: hold AUX button, plug OM charger (press power button if needed), release buttons on uboot menu. Select "boot" from NOR bootmenu with AUX and press power then Nov 13 20:42:38 also works for most A6 Nov 13 21:42:34 how do you guys like your freerunner? anyone install andriod? Nov 13 21:44:16 i like my freerunners, but i've not played with android Nov 13 21:44:34 JayPro: check #android-on-freerunner Nov 13 21:45:09 I've tried to install it, but apparently it doesn't work the way I wanted it (only on sd card or only in flash) Nov 13 21:46:00 ahh... pretty easy to use right out of the box, or was there some customization that needed to be done before it was good to go? Nov 13 21:46:46 for pure phone-stuff it worked right out of the box Nov 13 21:47:19 but to get a terminal you had to connect it to a computer first and set up a virtual network through which you SSH into the phone to install a terminal Nov 13 21:47:56 at least on mine, but different distributors might prepare them differently I suppose :) Nov 13 21:50:08 ohhh okay...cool... thats all i need to know! thanks! Nov 13 22:44:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r638ca85dee20 10/fsogsmd/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: parse iso3361 list and augment countrylist w/ real name Nov 13 22:47:29 do you guys know where to buy a freerunner in san diego? Nov 13 22:48:02 i wanted to buy the A7, but when i click on "distributors" on the openmoko website, i find out that the link is broken Nov 13 22:48:30 Ah - don't you love designers that improve websites. Nov 13 22:48:43 I would look for a distributor list on the wiki Nov 13 22:52:45 freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07specs * rc5741bcd22a5 10/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Add errors for MusicPlayer and MusicPlayer.Playlist Nov 13 22:52:47 freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07specs * r2a41332618f0 10/org.freesmartphone.MusicPlayer/ (2 files): Fixed copy and paste error for MusicPlayer.* Nov 13 22:52:48 freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07specs * rce7204d30ca9 10/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of fso:specs Nov 13 22:52:50 freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07specs * r41cc73bdd9cf 10/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Nov 13 22:52:50 freesmartphone.org: Add MusicPlayer.Playlist.JumpTo method Nov 13 22:52:51 freesmartphone.org: Fix some typos Nov 14 00:13:23 freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07libfso-glib * rb744699ff3da 10/src/ (6 files): regen **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 14 02:59:56 2009