**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 04 02:59:57 2009
Dec 04 03:00:04 <fredrin> DocScrutinizer51: you havent discovered any more fun things with it? 
Dec 04 03:01:59 <DocScrutinizer51> yep, just learnt it has gesture recognoition like in "face down mutes ringtone"
Dec 04 03:04:19 <DocScrutinizer51> idiots cramming the 256MB NAND / while 32GB iMMC are just -/MyDocuments
Dec 04 03:05:15 <DocScrutinizer51> bat down to... wait
Dec 04 03:06:08 <DocScrutinizer51> 8% after 20h of parially heavy usage
Dec 04 03:19:40 <fredrin> how heavy?
Dec 04 03:20:16 <fredrin> as i understand it, battery time is something that will be improved with software 
Dec 04 03:20:32 <fredrin> how many mA is the battery? 
Dec 04 03:20:40 <fredrin> can you use the FR bat, lol?
Dec 04 03:23:31 <DocScrutinizer51> heavy like 10h active use.
Dec 04 03:24:05 <DocScrutinizer51> that won't improve much with sw uppdates
Dec 04 03:25:02 <DocScrutinizer51> (heavy) 5 chan IRC and SIP all the time
Dec 04 03:26:15 <DocScrutinizer51> plus some GPS which I forgot to stop for an hour or two
Dec 04 03:26:50 <DocScrutinizer51> actually that's better than I ever expected
Dec 04 03:28:05 <DocScrutinizer51> the first 10h when it's been sitting 'idle' it used some 10%
Dec 04 03:41:23 <rozzin> I actually... like the FreeRunner's broad, flat, non-slip sides.
Dec 04 03:41:42 <fredrin> i like the freerunner too :) 
Dec 04 03:41:54 <fredrin> need to find a good use for it if i get a n900
Dec 04 03:42:02 <rozzin> I gather that I have large hands, though.
Dec 04 03:42:10 <fredrin> :)
Dec 04 03:42:20 <fredrin> sucks with the illume keyboard then
Dec 04 03:42:33 <fredrin> my index finger has gotten a longer nail now 
Dec 04 03:42:35 <rozzin> Nah, Illume's keyboard works great for me.
Dec 04 03:42:42 <rozzin> Actually, it's funny--
Dec 04 03:42:59 <fredrin> my body adapts
Dec 04 03:47:54 <rozzin> for typing English with the smart keyboard,
Dec 04 03:48:12 <rozzin> I often don't even need to look at it anymore.
Dec 04 03:49:06 <rozzin> It's just learned to correctly guess the words that I want based upon their `shapes'.
Dec 04 03:57:33 <fredrin> DocScrutinizer51: how long is the bat life if you turn off all the fancy stuff and just want to be availibel with gsm and sms, like say if you go out in the woods for some time, just want to be reachable nothing more 
Dec 04 03:58:51 <DocScrutinizer51> no idea
Dec 04 03:59:42 <DocScrutinizer51> prolly so long I impossibly could tell after 4 days
Dec 04 04:00:15 <fredrin> :) of course you havent tested that cenario yet, hehe
Dec 04 04:00:38 <DocScrutinizer51> got my 2 low bat warning ATM
Dec 04 04:04:50 <DocScrutinizer51> see: the first 10h of passive standby (with WLAN!) ate some 10%
Dec 04 04:07:35 <fredrin> DocScrutinizer51: how does the n900 stay connected all the time? even in suspend/ 0mhz? 
Dec 04 04:07:59 <fredrin> like if i'm connected to skype,msn,irc 
Dec 04 04:08:18 <fredrin> does it buffer? 
Dec 04 04:08:20 <fredrin> i dont get it
Dec 04 04:08:46 <DocScrutinizer51> goes out of 0clock on each inbound packet
Dec 04 04:09:52 <fredrin> but if you use like msn or irc, you get packets all the time
Dec 04 04:10:01 <fredrin> so it will never be 0clock for a long time? 
Dec 04 04:10:27 <DocScrutinizer51> FR goes out of suspend, but as that takes much longer and even lits backlight, I only got 16h of IRC standby
Dec 04 04:11:11 <fredrin> does the FR wake up if it gets gprs packets?
Dec 04 04:11:50 <DocScrutinizer51> yep sure
Dec 04 04:12:04 <fredrin> did not know that
Dec 04 04:25:56 <raster> rozzin: thats the main good bit about the illume kbd
Dec 04 04:26:09 <raster> it learns your habits and word usage and its guesses get better the more you use it
Dec 04 04:26:19 <raster> for terminal ist nothing fanncy - terminal mode does the job
Dec 04 04:26:28 <raster> but for "english" it should be good
Dec 04 04:28:02 <DocScrutinizer-8> raster!
Dec 04 04:33:12 <raster> docz!
Dec 04 04:35:19 <slaxxer> tell us what u can raster
Dec 04 04:36:32 <raster> my pants are on
Dec 04 04:37:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> great news :-P
Dec 04 04:39:53 <fredrin> thank good
Dec 04 04:39:54 <fredrin> god
Dec 04 04:41:34 <raster> i suspect the people around me  are thankful too
Dec 04 04:44:43 <DocScrutinizer-8> nice korean girls? taiwanese) or just your neighbours?
Dec 04 04:49:17 <raster> just neighbours
Dec 04 04:49:18 <raster> :)
Dec 04 04:51:19 <DocScrutinizer-8> actually your hemisphere is a better place to be ATM
Dec 04 04:54:16 <raster> it is?
Dec 04 04:54:20 <raster> which one are you in?
Dec 04 04:54:34 <DocScrutinizer-8> better climate
Dec 04 04:55:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> the cold one ;-D
Dec 04 05:11:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> raster: zero-clock definitely is the way to go. really awesome
Dec 04 05:11:50 <Q-Master> morning!
Dec 04 05:12:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> night
Dec 04 05:12:32 <KenYoung> Very early morning
Dec 04 05:16:28 <raster> DocScrutinizer-8: told ya :) zero clock is awesome
Dec 04 05:17:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> especially on a SoC with really some grunt
Dec 04 05:18:31 <rozzin> Very early.
Dec 04 05:51:49 <Undrwater> can someone explain the benefit of shr-today?
Dec 04 05:57:58 <gonzoism> Undrwater: high resource usage ?
Dec 04 05:58:19 <Undrwater> gonzoism: yeah...that could be a benefit ;)
Dec 04 05:59:52 <Undrwater> grr
Dec 04 06:00:06 <gonzoism> Undrwater: it locks the screen, shows you notifications about missed calls and sms messages, shows the time, date, battery status, network status, and has a pretty little picture.  that is kind of self evident, though.
Dec 04 06:01:50 <fredrin_> DocScrutinizer: can you use the FR battery on the n900?
Dec 04 06:01:55 <gonzoism> have a more specific question about it ?  i don't really understand why you are asking.
Dec 04 06:21:25 <gonzoism> if i want to print from the freerunner, i have to install cups, don't i ?
Dec 04 06:22:28 <gonzoism> i think so.  to print to a shared printer.
Dec 04 06:47:44 <PaulFertser> fredrin_: i doubt that.
Dec 04 06:47:54 <PaulFertser> gonzoism: cups would probably be an overkill i think
Dec 04 06:49:06 <PaulFertser> gonzoism: to print over the network to a sane network server you just need some very lightweight lpr implementation to send ps/pdf to the server, no need for the whole cups infrastracture unless you really need all that advanced stuff that comes with it.
Dec 04 06:50:56 <gonzoism> ok
Dec 04 06:52:41 <gonzoism> libxp-static - 1:1.0.0-r1.4 - X Printing Extension (Xprint) client library
Dec 04 06:52:56 <gonzoism> that probably isn't what i am looking for, is it ?
Dec 04 06:52:57 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: one possible downside of the 0-clock technology is that when you have some runaway process eating up cpu constantly you might not notice that until your battery is flat.
Dec 04 06:53:15 <PaulFertser> gonzoism: probably some x clients need it but it's not essential for printing in general.
Dec 04 06:55:33 <gonzoism> thanks
Dec 04 07:05:21 <PaulFertser> gonzoism: another idea: http://impressive.net/archives/fogo/3B775FDB.DA121DDE@w3.org
Dec 04 07:16:58 <PaulFertser> gonzoism: hey, i found something that is easy to use and compatible with cups out of the box: http://www.pykota.com/software/pkipplib/
Dec 04 07:22:12 <gonzoism> thanks !  i didn't like the other one.   printing has always been a weak subject for me
Dec 04 12:08:27 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: correct. Have a loadmeter installed (btw on nearly any device with a cpu I own) to stop that - 5h after I opened the box ;-)
Dec 04 12:46:18 <pbaxter> hi all
Dec 04 12:47:59 <tomcatek> ho
Dec 04 12:48:02 <tomcatek> hi
Dec 04 17:41:06 <PBeck> hi
Dec 04 17:41:34 <DocScrutinizer51> hi
Dec 04 19:07:47 <spacepluk> hi, which shr image do you recommend for stability? I've just flashed one but if seems that the touchscreen is not working.
Dec 04 19:16:47 <tomcatek> spacepluk: best is unstable :) if You know thing or two about linux, You can manage the unstability (which is rather rare)
Dec 04 19:23:01 <spacepluk> tomcatek: thanks tomcatek, I can handle a debian sid but there is a lot of different stuff here :P
Dec 04 19:24:52 <tomcatek> spacepluk: there is wiki,
Dec 04 19:24:58 <tomcatek> helpful developers
Dec 04 19:25:18 <tomcatek> if I can manage, so can You :]
Dec 04 19:26:34 <spacepluk> I'm downloading these:
Dec 04 19:26:40 <spacepluk> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/full-om-gta02.jffs2
Dec 04 19:26:50 <spacepluk> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-2.6.29-oe11+gitr119860+b90406de472c1aa5371ab593a2bb79136d5de658-r6-om-gta02.bin
Dec 04 19:27:05 <spacepluk> do you know if it's ok?
Dec 04 19:27:16 <tomcatek> should be
Dec 04 19:27:25 <tomcatek> but I prefer lite
Dec 04 19:27:33 <tomcatek> less apps
Dec 04 19:27:36 <Ddorda> spacepluk: i heard it's the best SHR ever released
Dec 04 19:27:48 <spacepluk> cool :P
Dec 04 19:27:48 <Ddorda> the best version
Dec 04 19:28:11 <tomcatek> spacepluk: i like to have installed only thise stuff I'm using :]
Dec 04 19:29:16 <spacepluk> I'd like to test everything first :) Then I'll decide if It's worth installing debian on the SD :)
Dec 04 19:31:59 <Ddorda> i'm about to install the latest SHR now
Dec 04 19:32:13 <Ddorda> or more right is that i'm going to flash it :P
Dec 04 19:33:30 <Ddorda> so i'll tell you how it is in about half hour
Dec 04 19:34:14 <spacepluk> I'm flashing too :)
Dec 04 19:34:47 <Ddorda> btw, the ubifs file is the rootfs and the uimage is the kernel? i can't remember :\
Dec 04 19:34:54 <Ddorda> my last flashing was long time ago
Dec 04 19:35:26 <tomcatek> Ddorda: You are right about those files
Dec 04 19:35:47 <Ddorda> i see. thanks :D
Dec 04 19:36:14 <Ddorda> SHR uses a new bootloader or splash? so i'll flash these too in the same time
Dec 04 19:36:28 <spacepluk> ubifs? I'm flashing te jffs2 file, are they different?
Dec 04 19:37:17 <Ddorda> i guess it's a different file system, but i'ts only a guess
Dec 04 20:06:31 <spacepluk> wow, much better than the last time I checked
Dec 04 20:07:49 <spacepluk> the scroll is still slow
Dec 04 20:17:39 <spacepluk> is there any way to improve rendering speed?
Dec 04 20:22:58 <mwester> change the theme
Dec 04 20:26:00 <spacepluk> mwester: any suggestion?
Dec 04 20:26:26 <mwester> nope.  I didn't follow the emails closely enough to know with themes it was.  Check the shr mailing list archives.
Dec 04 20:26:52 <spacepluk> mwester: thanks
Dec 04 21:08:16 <spacepluk> I guess that iphone like scrolling speed is not possible
Dec 04 21:13:21 <Weiss> spacepluk: with full acceleration, it could easily go that faster
Dec 04 21:13:38 <Weiss> it's a question of whether people are willing to put in so much platform specific code to enable that
Dec 04 21:13:47 <Weiss> that fast*
Dec 04 21:22:03 <spacepluk> platform specific?
Dec 04 21:25:40 <Weiss> yeah.. it'd mean writing code to directly talk to the hardware. the framework is all there, but the problem is that the acceleration provided by X and the toolkits isn't enough (in fact, it slows things down)
Dec 04 21:26:28 <spacepluk> so by platform spec
Dec 04 21:26:35 <spacepluk> s/spec/specific/
Dec 04 21:26:35 <apt> spacepluk meant: so by platform specific
Dec 04 21:26:54 <spacepluk> you mean X drivers?
Dec 04 21:30:29 <spacepluk> or you mean that current acceleration is the best we can get with X
Dec 04 21:30:44 <Weiss> more than that. The toolkits need to pass commands to the X driver that make sense when accelerating. Currently, amongst other things, they try to accelerate far too much
Dec 04 21:30:52 <Weiss> (or far too little)
Dec 04 21:35:13 <spacepluk> So the lowlevel layer is covered? It's just a matter of proper integration with the toolkits?
Dec 04 21:39:20 <Weiss> kind of. take scrolling, for example. E ends up redrawing the whole screen (almost) every frame. GTK would send loads of tiny copies and fills to draw the different bits of the thing being scrolled
Dec 04 21:39:46 <Weiss> if instead we uploaded the thing to scroll in advance (to the GPU) and told it to redraw at different positions, it'd go at more than 100fps
Dec 04 21:40:07 <spacepluk> hmm
Dec 04 21:40:18 <spacepluk> I'd like to try that
Dec 04 21:40:32 <Weiss> so would I :) .. I have a demo of it in the pipeline
Dec 04 21:40:53 <spacepluk> :)
Dec 04 21:41:24 <spacepluk> I've done some work on settopboxes with qt and directfb
Dec 04 21:42:19 <spacepluk> I was surprised with the phone being that slow
Dec 04 21:43:05 <Weiss> yeah. for our hardware, redrawing everything isn't great. redrawing little tiny bits GTK-style is worse, though
Dec 04 21:43:08 <spacepluk> I guess that there're ways to impe
Dec 04 21:43:11 <spacepluk> sorry
Dec 04 21:43:20 <spacepluk> s/impe/implement/
Dec 04 21:43:28 <spacepluk> proper scroll through the toolkits
Dec 04 21:43:54 <spacepluk> at least with Qt you can
Dec 04 21:44:03 <Weiss> I find scrolling actually pretty smooth with the latest DRM stack
Dec 04 21:45:00 <spacepluk> Where can I get it?
Dec 04 21:45:23 <spacepluk> here the launcher scrolls at barely 2fps
Dec 04 21:45:56 <spacepluk> some menus and smaller scroll areas are pretty smooth though
Dec 04 21:46:28 <Weiss> hmm.. I haven't tried scrolling the launcher. scrolling in Contacts is nice, though
Dec 04 21:47:18 <Weiss> probably around 10fps
Dec 04 21:48:48 <spacepluk> that's much better :P
Dec 04 21:55:48 <spacepluk> what are the .ubi and ubifs images?
Dec 04 21:57:23 <PaulFertser> spacepluk: cool new fast filesystem. Doesn't work yet :)
Dec 04 21:58:23 <spacepluk> PaulFertser: cool :P
Dec 04 22:01:54 <spacepluk> is it also faster on smaller chips?
Dec 04 22:04:07 <max_posedon> spacepluk, its mainly designed for nand's
Dec 04 23:52:39 <gonzoism> if you rm /usr/share/webkit-1.0/resources/error.html you can then install eve  (enlightenment web browser)
Dec 04 23:53:29 <gonzoism> i want edbus-ehal so I can install paroli.
Dec 05 02:24:14 <naquan> hi everyone, I tried the debian install.sh script but the "tar" calls return many errors, could you please share with me some experience of installing debian on freerunner? I don't know if SHR is sufficient as host OS on flash or not.
Dec 05 02:33:22 <naquan> i'm sorry, don't bother it now. I found that the script use other tar version than the host OS's.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 05 02:59:57 2009