**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 14 02:59:56 2009
Dec 14 03:20:47 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ping
Dec 14 03:20:48 <apt_> ~pong
Dec 14 03:21:33 <DocScrutinizer51> wow, 6 IRC channels and all are quiet since 1h
Dec 14 03:24:27 * naquan 's away
Dec 14 03:24:31 <naquan> :)
Dec 14 03:25:12 <SeligArkin> ~ding
Dec 14 03:25:14 <apt_> dong
Dec 14 03:25:22 <SeligArkin> :P
Dec 14 03:25:47 <DocScrutinizer51> heh SeligArkin :-)
Dec 14 03:26:00 <SeligArkin> The witch is dead!
Dec 14 03:28:04 <DocScrutinizer51> SeligArkin: hope *you* are fine though :-)
Dec 14 03:31:12 <SeligArkin> For the most part. :P
Dec 14 04:42:05 <gonzoism> phone keeps turning itself off
Dec 14 04:42:10 <gonzoism> instantly
Dec 14 04:42:12 <gonzoism> flashes off
Dec 14 04:42:25 <gonzoism> maybe zhone is messing stuff up
Dec 14 04:48:45 <Theshark> is this for voip?
Dec 14 05:13:51 <DocScrutinizer51> errrr w w wahat?
Dec 14 08:14:55 * naquan tried 2.6.31 kernel, see it boot really fast(2 or 3 times faster than 2.6.29), but the phone 's hang after first suspend. :(
Dec 14 08:18:36 <DocScrutinizer51> that sounds like a somewhat known issue
Dec 14 08:19:39 <DocScrutinizer51> what exactly means "hang" here?
Dec 14 08:24:43 <PaulFertser> naquan: yes, suspend/resume is broken in .31
Dec 14 08:26:36 <PaulFertser> :(
Dec 14 08:27:18 <naquan> DocScrutinizer51:  hang = a blank screen that's not response :)
Dec 14 08:27:54 <naquan> PaulFertser: thank you, i'm using the old 2.6.29 now :)
Dec 14 08:28:00 <DocScrutinizer51> naquan: that's probably fault of new xserver / videodriver
Dec 14 08:28:11 <naquan> PaulFertser: hope they'll release it soon
Dec 14 08:28:28 <DocScrutinizer51> ask Weiss abot that
Dec 14 08:28:42 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: nope, that's a kernel issue :(
Dec 14 08:29:12 <DocScrutinizer51> PaulFertser: ooh. even worse
Dec 14 08:29:12 <naquan> DocScrutinizer51:  :( it's ok with the 2.6.29
Dec 14 08:29:58 <naquan> DocScrutinizer51:  but i think you're right, they probably change some thing in the video driver.
Dec 14 08:30:41 <naquan> DocScrutinizer51:  2.6.30 added the DRM support to video
Dec 14 08:30:56 <DocScrutinizer51> naquan: 092842 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: nope, that's a kernel issue :(
Dec 14 08:57:55 <Weiss> naquan: are you getting WSoD on suspend? (not resume)
Dec 14 08:59:00 <naquan> Weiss: what's WSoD?
Dec 14 08:59:16 <Weiss> white screen of death
Dec 14 09:02:48 <naquan> i leave the phone for a while, it goes auto-suspend. when i look at it after that, the screen 's blank, back light's not off also. I try to resume with the power button but it doesn't response and holding the power button does not power off the phone.
Dec 14 09:03:53 <naquan> Weiss: i think i got the WSoD on suspend.
Dec 14 09:07:02 <Weiss> if you get WSoD on suspend with 2.6.31, add the MMC_UNSAFE_RESUME option (or similar.. don't have the exact name right now)
Dec 14 09:10:00 <naquan> Weiss: how should i add it in append-GTA02? i'm using qi.
Dec 14 09:10:39 <Weiss> ah.. no, you have to recompile :S
Dec 14 09:10:51 <DocScrutinizer51> eeek
Dec 14 09:12:00 <Weiss> according to larsc it's an intrinsic problem with the MMC stack at this time
Dec 14 09:12:07 <Weiss> for some reason, it doesn't affect everyone
Dec 14 09:14:37 <naquan> Weiss: how can i cross-compile for armv4? do you know a good tutorial of this?
Dec 14 09:15:22 <Weiss> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Building_the_andy-tracking_branch is good, but you need to copy the compile script across from andy-tracking, and check out the 2.6.31 source instead of 2.6.29
Dec 14 09:18:17 <naquan> Weiss: thank you, i'll try it :)
Dec 14 09:19:08 <Weiss> no problem.. let us know if it works
Dec 14 10:47:02 <DocScrutinizer51> gals/guys you're really an exceptionally nice club. Thank god we're not #maemo :-))
Dec 14 10:51:46 <naquan> DocScrutinizer51: what happened in #maemo?
Dec 14 10:52:13 <DocScrutinizer51> quite ordinary flamewars
Dec 14 10:54:49 <naquan> :)
Dec 14 11:49:21 <beers> what did the flame about?
Dec 14 11:52:30 <PaulFertser> beers: nokia's decision to use PA and not plain alsa.
Dec 14 11:53:30 <PaulFertser> beers: i asked about PA benefits and possible usage scenarios and got severly bashed by a webbrowser developer timeless_mbp who likes to speak for the whole community.
Dec 14 11:54:25 <ndnihil> PA?
Dec 14 11:54:42 <ndnihil> proprietary audio?
Dec 14 11:54:47 <PaulFertser> ndnihil: pulseaudio
Dec 14 11:54:50 <ndnihil> ah
Dec 14 11:55:01 <mjr> well
Dec 14 11:55:21 <mjr> pa seemed like a good idea at the time here too at some point ;]
Dec 14 11:55:51 <lindi-> PaulFertser: not sure if #maemo is the best place to get answers to nokia design decisions really
Dec 14 11:56:28 <PaulFertser> mjr: i'd trade seamless rerouting between different sound cards for more cpu cycles and less problems. Also zero-clock feature of omap SoCs used in n900 would benefit for less power consumption.
Dec 14 11:57:15 <PaulFertser> lindi-: "what does PA bring to a portable device that is not available  in plain ALSA?" is exactly how the argument started.
Dec 14 12:01:23 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: [2009-12-14 12:53:32] <PaulFertser> beers: i asked about PA benefits and possible usage scenarios
Dec 14 12:03:20 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: ALSA could output to concurrent sinks. So no need for any seamless switching
Dec 14 12:03:59 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: hm, interesting. Probably wouldn't work with hot-pluggable devices like A2DP though.
Dec 14 12:04:00 <DocScrutinizer> just mute the output(s) you don't need
Dec 14 12:04:14 <DocScrutinizer> hmm probably, yes
Dec 14 12:06:03 <DocScrutinizer> but honestly... realtime on the fly switching to/from A2DP? Feels like you should prohibit it even
Dec 14 12:08:54 <DocScrutinizer> like: doing a phonecall via BT headset, phone placed on table with people sitting around it. Now I walk to kitchen for a beer and BT RF connection stalls.
Dec 14 12:09:34 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: the guy proposed RT switching to caraudio.
Dec 14 12:09:53 <DocScrutinizer> do I want the phone to inadvertedly eavesdrop into the discussion of the people on the table then?
Dec 14 12:10:32 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: I've read it
Dec 14 12:10:49 <DocScrutinizer> sounds insane to me as well
Dec 14 12:11:37 <mjr> IMAO it should be possible, but not necessarily at the PA cost
Dec 14 12:12:21 <DocScrutinizer> I should do a "mute call" (audiodev gets freed), then (pair and) connect/enable car-BT and set up volume etc correctly. Then and just then unmute call
Dec 14 12:12:23 <SeligArkin> Yeah, any time you walk close to your car, your phone call will be transfered to the car, even though you're not actualy in it. (Note: I am rather ill-informed on these matters, so excuse any stupidity)
Dec 14 12:12:51 <DocScrutinizer> SeligArkin: exactly
Dec 14 12:13:18 <SeligArkin> For all I know, the car could turn off the BT thing completely when it's not running, though
Dec 14 12:13:38 <DocScrutinizer> unsolicited A2DP switchover is *no* good idea
Dec 14 12:14:08 <SeligArkin> but even then, cold days, turning the car on to warm up, get a call, and you can't talk unless you run out through the cold to your car
Dec 14 12:14:16 <mjr> unsolicited perhaps
Dec 14 12:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> for all usage schemes involving user action on the phone to confirm the switch we don't need PA
Dec 14 12:15:17 <SeligArkin> But yeah, maybe a option for it, and a per-device setting for wether to switch to that or not (But a global on/off for this to prevent people on both sides from complaining about having to turn it on/off for each device manualy)
Dec 14 12:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> as the app should handle the audio device switch then
Dec 14 12:15:25 <DocScrutinizer> or at least support it
Dec 14 12:19:44 <DocScrutinizer> well now after claiming "dmix is broken" and "PA is the future and works flawlessly" now those guys on #maemo started to realize PA actually eats CPU like it's the only app on a device with own atomic plant, and they found a bug even in PA that freezes half the device on something silly simple like two apps playback sound concurrently and then one tries to close
Dec 14 12:19:54 <DocScrutinizer> chrrrhrrhrrhrrrrrr >:-)
Dec 14 12:34:44 <Bert_2> anyone got a fix for the openmoko-icon-theme-standard2 error on first boot and upgrade (shr-unstable, 13december lite jffs2)
Dec 14 12:50:14 <Bert_2> no one ?
Dec 14 13:58:30 * DocScrutinizer waves and does shutdown -r after 22d uptime ;-S  friggin kernel update
Dec 14 14:01:56 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: in fact i've always read Lennart's posts with big interest, i think he is a very talented guy.
Dec 14 14:02:21 <DocScrutinizer51> PaulFertser: err?
Dec 14 14:02:38 <DocScrutinizer51> who,s lennart?
Dec 14 14:02:49 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: he's the PA author, also he's the main developer behind rdesktop and avahi.
Dec 14 14:03:30 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh. so he maintains even two of my favourite projects ;-P
Dec 14 14:05:38 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: yep, avahi is a strange thing. Never seen it used for something good but seen enough problems from it being enabled by default.
Dec 14 14:06:00 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Dec 14 14:13:20 <pbaxter> hi all
Dec 14 14:54:43 <Sup3rkiddo> hey guys, just wondering. how long does the battery last if I have SHR + gps but withouth GSM
Dec 14 14:55:04 <Sup3rkiddo> any tips to increase battery life?
Dec 14 14:56:43 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah. shutdown GPS for any period longer than 30 sec
Dec 14 14:56:53 <Sup3rkiddo> heh :|
Dec 14 14:57:06 <Sup3rkiddo> i was hoping to use it for my roadtrip
Dec 14 14:57:29 <Sup3rkiddo> atleast logging will do..
Dec 14 14:57:43 <DocScrutinizer51> so what? do you need a fix every 10 sec?
Dec 14 14:59:12 <Sup3rkiddo> hmmm no
Dec 14 14:59:42 <panicking> try to use cpufreq scaling
Dec 14 14:59:44 <panicking> too
Dec 14 14:59:50 <DocScrutinizer51> shut down 45sec. 10sec power up and init. 5sec for fix. power down to 25%
Dec 14 15:00:22 <SeligArkin> I wonder how much power it takes to get a fix compaired to holding the fix
Dec 14 15:00:57 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm. good question. but a wild guess would be its all the same
Dec 14 15:01:02 <Sup3rkiddo> hmmm.... no use eh/?.. I wanted to just log the trip... I know the route.. so am not going to use it as a map thing..
Dec 14 15:01:30 <SeligArkin> Why not get a car charger, Sup3rkiddo
Dec 14 15:01:46 <Sup3rkiddo> SeligArkin, hehe, its a motor bike
Dec 14 15:01:54 <SeligArkin> Ohh
Dec 14 15:02:01 <DocScrutinizer51> the easiest solution for sure
Dec 14 15:02:18 <SeligArkin> no car lighters for a motor bike? :P
Dec 14 15:02:24 <Sup3rkiddo> :P
Dec 14 15:02:30 <SeligArkin> Just duct-tape the moko to the bike
Dec 14 15:02:36 <Sup3rkiddo> DocScrutinizer-8, yes?
Dec 14 15:02:41 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm. this bike doesn,t have a power plug?
Dec 14 15:02:56 <Sup3rkiddo> DocScrutinizer-8, :|
Dec 14 15:04:01 <Sup3rkiddo> I was planning something like... cat the nmea data or something into some file and load it in OSM's app... and show off!
Dec 14 15:04:28 <DocScrutinizer51> no 12V battery to hook up a female plug and a carcharger
Dec 14 15:05:39 <Sup3rkiddo> DocScrutinizer-8, its also raining a bit, so the freerunner will most likely be in my saddle
Dec 14 15:06:06 <DocScrutinizer51> well anyway I think when suspending, themGPS should power off as well.
Dec 14 15:06:25 <Sup3rkiddo> yeah, it dos
Dec 14 15:06:26 <Sup3rkiddo> es
Dec 14 15:06:37 <DocScrutinizer51> for the saddle thing you,d need an external gps antenna then
Dec 14 15:07:46 <Sup3rkiddo> DocScrutinizer51, aw shucks.. I did a test ride keeping the device in my backpack (not that deep though).. worked without problems.. but as you said, power came down quite fast
Dec 14 15:07:59 <DocScrutinizer51> for the power it should work to let device suspend, and wake up after some minutes by e.g. ffalarms or similar
Dec 14 15:08:35 <Sup3rkiddo> I was of the impression that its the initial fix that draws the maximum power
Dec 14 15:08:57 <DocScrutinizer51> or prepare a script for that RTC alarm thingie to wake device cyclic
Dec 14 15:11:20 <DocScrutinizer51> I have to admit I never tested the power consumption of GPS in different situations. nor did I test resume of GPS while app is using it
Dec 14 15:14:27 <DocScrutinizer51> the easiest thing is to wrap two cables around the bat poles and mount a ciglighter plug. then plug a *good* car adapter to that
Dec 14 15:15:40 <DocScrutinizer51> and maybe avoid having FR plugged when operating starter. Just to be sure...
Dec 14 15:15:50 <Sup3rkiddo> DocScrutinizer51, thats the thing, I will have to source long cables at that..... The battery is way down.... will be difficult to reach it. (dang, should have thought about it earlier)
Dec 14 15:15:51 <Sup3rkiddo> hehe
Dec 14 15:18:05 <DocScrutinizer51> I have a FR here "declared dead 14,11,2008. Killed by scooter starter. RIP" So be warned
Dec 14 15:19:34 <Sup3rkiddo> rofl
Dec 14 15:21:45 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe the frontlight is easier to wiretap. also has advantage you can easily switch off (for start and during parking) and usually is on while driving
Dec 14 19:53:03 <badcloud1> is wyrd usable on the GTA02?
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 14 23:57:06 2009
Dec 15 01:00:17 <slaxxer> so does opkg upgrade work on testing now?
Dec 15 01:06:42 <thegreen4me> is there an easy way to tether in shr?
Dec 15 01:09:54 <thegreen4me> somebody must know
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