**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 14 02:59:57 2010
Jan 14 04:34:29 <DocScrutinizer51> ~flashing
Jan 14 04:34:30 <infobot> from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jan 14 05:35:47 <brian_> ~flashed
Jan 14 06:02:50 <brian_> ahhhhhhh....   the growing pains
Jan 14 06:03:56 <Undrwater> brian_: ?
Jan 14 06:04:51 <brian_> just reading the kernel -dev lists
Jan 14 06:05:34 <Undrwater> ahh
Jan 14 07:14:29 <pabs3> anyone else having problems with shr-unstable? shr-settings can't seem to change any settings and also ffalarms isn't waking the FR up from suspend
Jan 14 07:18:43 <ThibG> pabs3, there are problems with elementary's slides, and lately, with alternatives using busybox for ps, init, and other things
Jan 14 07:19:16 <pabs3> sounds like I'm getting bitten by the first one for sure
Jan 14 07:22:37 <pabs3> are there any bugs/threads about these?
Jan 14 07:23:11 * pabs3 reminds self never to upgrade the day before a flight
Jan 14 07:32:26 <Kamping_Kaiser> heh.
Jan 14 07:32:37 <Kamping_Kaiser> if it helps your mood, I'm reinstalling mine today :/
Jan 14 07:33:20 <Kamping_Kaiser> ooooh shr-testing has a tux on bootup :O
Jan 14 07:39:03 * pabs3 tries shr-testing
Jan 14 07:39:22 <pabs3> does shr-testing work the same as Debian testing?
Jan 14 07:39:34 <ThibG> I guess not
Jan 14 07:40:29 <pabs3> hmm, so it is more shr-testing ~ Debian sid and shr-unstable ~ Debian experimental?
Jan 14 07:42:24 <pabs3> ouch, nasty pidgin vulnerability recently, hope it is fixed in SHR
Jan 14 07:44:57 <ThibG> pabs3, SHR unstable is more likely to be broken than debian unstable, but it's a full archive, unlike debian experimental
Jan 14 07:45:42 <ThibG> and I'm not a SHR dev, but I think SHR testing is the result of manual changes, and not an automatic distribution with clear rules like debian testing
Jan 14 07:47:26 <JaMa> yes shr-t is just based on few weeks old shr-u with manual cherry-pick of important fixes from shr-u
Jan 14 07:48:47 <ThibG> (oh, but that's my mentor :))
Jan 14 07:49:11 <pabs3> :)
Jan 14 07:51:04 <ThibG> by the way, does debian run great on FR?
Jan 14 07:51:24 <ThibG> I don't have a µSD yet, but when I'll have one, I would try for sure
Jan 14 07:52:27 <pabs3> it runs fine. e17 is available, but none of the SHR dialer/etc apps. there are also a couple of other Debian derivatives using alternative UIs; QtMoko, hackable1 and so on
Jan 14 07:52:58 <ThibG> ok
Jan 14 07:53:03 <pabs3> no Debian kernel will run on it though, you need one from pkg-fso or QtMoko or whatever
Jan 14 07:53:27 <pabs3> mokomaze and intone work nicely though and are in the repo :)
Jan 14 07:55:06 <ThibG> too bad there isn't anything to use it like a phone in the repo :/
Jan 14 07:56:08 <zeroedout> um, zhone? 
Jan 14 07:56:22 <ThibG> oh, yeah, forgot about it
Jan 14 07:57:31 <ThibG> well, maybe I'll buy a µSD today, and give it a try :)
Jan 14 07:58:02 * pabs3 plans to package qi and somehow get ffalarms and stuff in
Jan 14 07:59:30 <ThibG> last time I've tried to install zhone on my computer (that was before having the FR), EFL packages were all messed up
Jan 14 08:00:25 <ThibG> some parts of the EFL depending on -svn-3 packages, others on -svn-5, those two conflicting
Jan 14 08:43:24 <pabs3> hmm, I think I need puppet or something, setting up shr with my config changes from an image is kinda annoying
Jan 14 08:48:38 <pabs3> hmm, shr-testing has screen artifacts
Jan 14 08:49:25 <pabs3> and no on-screen keyboard, weirdness
Jan 14 09:01:38 <Kamping_Kaiser> hm, i see mokomaze filling in a lot of time at the airport tomorrow
Jan 14 10:17:37 <Kamping_Kaiser> sigh. i hate this bit of the process *pecks away with stylus to configure networking*
Jan 14 11:09:39 <Kamping_Kaiser> Can someone recommend an ogg/mp3 player for SHR testing? I'm about to check out the net, but a recommendation is always nice :)
Jan 14 11:10:14 <tomcatek> Kamping_Kaiser: intone?
Jan 14 11:10:42 <Kamping_Kaiser> tomcatek: thats a thought. its probably stopped crashing by now
Jan 14 11:11:42 * Kamping_Kaiser tries it out, thanks
Jan 14 12:44:01 <Kamping_Kaiser> sigh. Intone is crashy as always :/
Jan 14 12:51:17 <alfatangoxt> http://www.mangler.org/
Jan 14 12:51:25 <alfatangoxt> :) sorry spam 
Jan 14 12:52:38 <Kamping_Kaiser> yay, music out of the freerunner! <3 to all
Jan 14 12:52:44 <pd_failure> hello all
Jan 14 12:53:39 <pd_failure> im guessing only but openmoko (shr or other) counld block incoming calls from specified numbers?
Jan 14 12:54:44 <mjr> don't know if there's code for that but surely you can do it ;)
Jan 14 12:57:53 <pd_failure> mjr: i dont remember but somewhere was an article about it ... damn i dont remember web site :(
Jan 14 13:09:00 <PaulFertser> lindi-: hi :)
Jan 14 13:09:36 <PaulFertser> lindi-: can you possibly explain me why the fuck did i need to waste like 3 hours debugging OpenOCD just to find out that http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=452977 is still not fixed? :(
Jan 14 13:16:41 <lindi-> PaulFertser: no idea, i haven't used mingw32 much :)
Jan 14 13:17:06 <PaulFertser> lindi-: nope, i'm asking you as the one who understands debian in deep, it's not mingw problem.
Jan 14 13:17:27 <lindi-> PaulFertser: each maintainer is the dictator of his/her own package :P
Jan 14 13:19:37 <PaulFertser> lindi-: yes but why the hell such a small and vital patch is not applied? :((
Jan 14 13:20:16 <lindi-> PaulFertser: that'd require me to read and understand the specific issue :)
Jan 14 13:20:25 <PaulFertser> lindi-: it's sad to spend so much time due to first microsoft fucking up their *snprintf versions, mingw providing a buggy replacement and debian shipping the version without the fix that was included 2 years ago :(
Jan 14 13:22:55 <lindi-> PaulFertser: 2 years is nothing :)
Jan 14 13:23:03 <PaulFertser> for debian probably yes 
Jan 14 13:27:54 * lindi- is drowning in C++ error messages at the moment..
Jan 14 13:29:54 <gena2x> PaulFertser: just kick maintainer, sometimes this helps.
Jan 14 13:30:44 <gena2x> PaulFertser: and stop using mingw32 stuff - it is evil :)
Jan 14 13:32:59 <gena2x> PaulFertser: because using mingw32 is always waste of your time ;)
Jan 14 13:43:07 <PaulFertser> gena2x: i was required to provide an openocd build with my patch (allows flashing eeprom via jtag) for windows, what else could i do...
Jan 14 13:44:21 <Defiant> grml who deprecated enlightenment_remote without a replacement...good idea. :(
Jan 14 15:13:07 <slaxxer> which kernel for shr has latest improvments?
Jan 14 15:22:08 <gena2x> slaxxer: you should use 2.6.29 from andy-tracking
Jan 14 15:22:35 <valos> slaxxer: or http://build.shr-project.org/tests/mrmoku/kms/images/om-gta02/
Jan 14 15:23:21 <gena2x> i think mrmoku kernels are still build with debug info
Jan 14 15:23:29 <gena2x> and .31 .32 still not working
Jan 14 15:25:41 <gena2x> so, best thing is to use some kernels from this thread http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2010-January/059102.html
Jan 14 15:26:05 <accu4> anyone on SHR-T and a tangogps user?
Jan 14 15:26:27 <accumulator> I have a much improved tangogps IPK ready for testing
Jan 14 15:27:21 <accumulator> it's now lightning fast :)
Jan 14 15:27:39 <valos> gena2x: where can I find andy-tracking kernel image and modules ?
Jan 14 15:28:34 <gena2x> valos: people built it, i posted link with letter where is link.
Jan 14 15:29:13 <gena2x> valos: check link above
Jan 14 15:29:31 <accumulator> anyone?
Jan 14 15:29:34 <gena2x> valos: also radek built one, follow that thread
Jan 14 15:30:11 <valos> gena2x: ok
Jan 14 15:32:52 <gena2x> gena2x: btw, i meant not plain andy tracking, but with removed debug info/preemption.
Jan 14 15:35:44 <babamelone> Hi, I just broke SHR on my freerunner by performing an update. To keep the contacts I copied the current image to my pc. But it cannot mount it with mount -t jffs2 image directory
Jan 14 15:36:35 <gena2x> you should add -o loop as a bare minimum
Jan 14 15:36:50 <gena2x> dunno if it'll be really mounted after that
Jan 14 15:38:15 <babamelone> gena2x: Is jffs2 really a loop device. Anyway, it still wont mount
Jan 14 15:38:52 <babamelone> Nevertheless with -o loop dmesg outputs at least MTD: Attempt to mount non-MTD device "/dev/loop0"
Jan 14 15:39:26 <mickeyl> you need mtdblock
Jan 14 15:39:27 <accumulator> anyone care to test a new faster tangogps?
Jan 14 15:39:31 <mickeyl> then dd it into an mtdblock
Jan 14 15:39:34 <gena2x> babamelone:http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/jffs2.html#L_loopback
Jan 14 15:39:40 <mickeyl> and then mount /dev/mtd/0
Jan 14 15:47:05 <babamelone> thanks, now it works
Jan 14 15:48:09 <babamelone> can anyone tell me what files I have keep containing the contacts and the receive/transceived messages?
Jan 14 15:49:15 <babamelone> Im using SHR btw
Jan 14 15:56:26 <babamelone> The SHR blog says, opimd saves the messages and contacts by default on a SQLite database in the flash memory. So where can I find this
Jan 14 16:04:27 <groszek> hm, what would be better, android cupcake or eclair?
Jan 14 16:05:11 <ThibG> babamelone, /etc/freesmartphone/opim/
Jan 14 16:05:58 <elopio> hello people.
Jan 14 16:07:49 <elopio> I would love to have a menu in shr, like the one in android. This menu will show all the installed applications. And the desktop will show only the ones I use the most.
Jan 14 16:08:05 <elopio> have you received this feature request before?
Jan 14 16:08:24 <elopio> was it rejected? :)
Jan 14 16:26:01 <KoFish> is there any good reason why there isn't a piemenu based system on openmoko yet?
Jan 14 18:14:24 <accumulator> anyone here willing to test an improved tangogps?
Jan 14 18:17:39 <tomcatek> accumulator: what wos improved?
Jan 14 18:18:08 <accumulator> speed
Jan 14 18:18:34 <accumulator> and a bunch of bugs
Jan 14 18:23:48 <accumulator> anyway, IPK is here : http://3v8.net/~sander/openmoko/tangogps/tangogps_0.99.2-r2.4_armv4t.ipk
Jan 14 18:23:59 <accumulator> for SHR-T
Jan 14 19:57:30 <groszek> is it possible to drain battery when FR is flashing? Or is it charged at that time?
Jan 14 19:58:11 <m4lvin> it's not charged, i think
Jan 14 19:58:19 <m4lvin> so u have battery drain
Jan 14 19:58:35 <groszek> hmh :F
Jan 14 19:58:40 <groszek> I hope it'll survive the process
Jan 14 19:58:54 <groszek> and btw, it's much longer than the wiki says, it's around 3 hours for ~90 mb image
Jan 14 19:59:07 <m4lvin> wow, that's too slow
Jan 14 19:59:16 <m4lvin> are you sure the flashing is still running?
Jan 14 19:59:21 <groszek> yes
Jan 14 19:59:28 <groszek> well I just started it, it's just how it was before
Jan 14 19:59:31 <groszek> ## for now ;]
Jan 14 19:59:36 <m4lvin> u r using dfu-util?
Jan 14 19:59:40 <groszek> yes
Jan 14 19:59:42 <gena2x> groszek: seem too long
Jan 14 19:59:49 <gena2x> restart
Jan 14 19:59:51 <gena2x> it
Jan 14 19:59:54 <groszek> it's always like that
Jan 14 19:59:55 <m4lvin> more than one hour is definetly to long
Jan 14 19:59:56 <m4lvin> yes
Jan 14 20:00:02 <groszek> for now it's just 5 minutes
Jan 14 20:00:23 <m4lvin> so how fast does it go to the two ## ?
Jan 14 20:00:36 <groszek> a little over 5 minutes, I'd say :P
Jan 14 20:00:55 <groszek> but whole process takes around 3 hours
Jan 14 20:00:56 <gena2x> just terminate it and start again
Jan 14 20:01:07 <groszek> but it _always_ was that slow
Jan 14 20:01:20 <groszek> I flashed it several times already, different images etc
Jan 14 20:01:28 <m4lvin> hm, what pc do you use to flash it? what linux?
Jan 14 20:01:34 <groszek> it's windows
Jan 14 20:01:39 <gena2x> :)
Jan 14 20:02:03 <groszek> hm, might try on linux box, why not... 
Jan 14 20:02:18 <m4lvin> argh, ok
Jan 14 20:02:25 <m4lvin> definetly
Jan 14 20:02:28 <m4lvin> use linux
Jan 14 20:02:47 <m4lvin> or at least a vmware with linux and attach the neo while the vm is running
Jan 14 20:03:19 <groszek> no, I have another computer here ;)
Jan 14 20:03:36 <m4lvin> ok
Jan 14 20:04:29 <m4lvin> another way is transfering the image and some os on a sd-card, bott from it and let the neo flash itself with dd
Jan 14 20:04:54 <groszek> hm, android installs from sdcard, it all takes 2 minutes or so
Jan 14 20:06:31 <groszek> hm. I'll install android from sdcard I still have there and full charge it
Jan 14 20:06:43 <groszek> that might be best thing for now
Jan 14 20:07:11 <m4lvin> well, ok
Jan 14 20:07:19 <m4lvin> and really: use linux ;-)
Jan 14 20:07:53 <groszek> I refuse to start another holy war ;-)
Jan 14 20:09:38 <gena2x> cool, xpdf is FAST.
Jan 14 20:14:13 <lindi-> gena2x: mupdf is lot faster
Jan 14 20:15:49 <groszek> btw, can someone 'grep -i bogomips /proc/cpuinfo' on FR ?
Jan 14 20:21:02 <tomcatek> groszek: root@moskito ~ $ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep ogo
Jan 14 20:21:02 <tomcatek> BogoMIPS: 198.65
Jan 14 20:21:06 <tomcatek> root@moskito ~ $
Jan 14 20:34:28 <groszek> hm, this is slower than my other phone with 312mhz cpu which gets up to 300 bogomips
Jan 14 20:34:39 <groszek> strange
Jan 14 20:35:01 * groszek would buy freerunner with atom/snapdragon ;-)
Jan 14 20:35:12 <tomcatek> or mine is slow
Jan 14 20:35:31 <groszek> no, I wanted to see if mine is slow, and it's the same
Jan 14 20:36:06 <tomcatek> maybye some overclocking? :]
Jan 14 20:36:28 <groszek> and get stationary phone? :]
Jan 14 20:37:01 <tomcatek> with cpu scalling :P
Jan 14 20:37:05 <gena2x> lindi-: wth, not in debian!? oh... totally true console app. supports page down, and rotation, no search, no menu, no page number. pure pdf viewer
Jan 14 20:37:41 <kirun> Yeah... a phone with atom, with the battery to keep it running all day you'd do weight training when you lifted it up to talk
Jan 14 20:37:50 <groszek> *pure* pdf viewer? ***PURE*** ? Try 'file' ;-)
Jan 14 20:37:59 <groszek> or ls
Jan 14 20:38:33 <groszek> kirun, well, it'd be suspended most of the time, like FR
Jan 14 20:38:59 <groszek> the cpu is very power efficient, and netbooks get 7+ hours battery life on 9cells
Jan 14 20:39:03 <groszek> not so heavy 
Jan 14 20:39:12 <groszek> well, when it comes to dual-xeon in cellphone...
Jan 14 20:39:58 <kirun> You could get one of those 80s phones and mod it
Jan 14 20:40:22 <tomcatek> i have some very old siemens cell :)
Jan 14 20:40:52 <kirun> If you have a battery belt pack, change the cells for modern ones and you're away
Jan 14 20:43:06 <lindi-> gena2x: not in debian yet
Jan 14 20:43:23 <lindi-> gena2x: i have unofficial packaging for it though
Jan 14 20:44:07 <lindi-> gena2x: rotation in mupdf is also not limited to 90 degree steps :)
Jan 14 20:44:55 <gena2x> lindi-: yes, i noticed. do you like to view pdfs 5 degree rotated?
Jan 14 20:45:22 <groszek> integrate it with accelerometer
Jan 14 20:45:27 <groszek> and it's cool rotation possibility
Jan 14 20:45:32 <groszek> always straight horizontal
Jan 14 20:45:43 <gena2x> lindi-: i am always using xpdf - it is lacking only utf-8 search for me
Jan 14 20:46:43 <lindi-> gena2x: xpdf also lacks zooming at 120%?
Jan 14 20:49:14 <gena2x> lindi-: need 120? i'm happy with 125 ;)
Jan 14 20:49:33 <gena2x> lindi-: xpdf uses motif
Jan 14 20:50:08 <lindi-> gena2x: 450 would be nice
Jan 14 20:50:34 <lindi-> gena2x: have you read "The X Windows Disaster"? ;)
Jan 14 20:51:59 <gena2x> lindi-: btw, only program which kills me with such kind of features (like 5° rotation) was old true version of imagemagick, which only program in earth did true cuts.
Jan 14 20:52:38 <lindi-> gena2x: true cuts?
Jan 14 20:52:53 <lindi-> lossless jpeg cuts?
Jan 14 20:53:22 <gena2x> lindi-: not jpeg. yes. then you press 'cut', you see nice rectangular hole in window
Jan 14 20:54:04 <gena2x> lindi-: new versions lack this feature :(((
Jan 14 20:54:43 <groszek> http://code.google.com/p/inferno-openmoko/
Jan 14 20:54:45 <groszek> huhuh
Jan 14 21:03:24 <gena2x> groszek: hm. never saw working inferno or plan9
Jan 14 21:03:45 <groszek> I saw it only under windows, but it's pretty cool
Jan 14 21:03:53 <groszek> (it can even work as activex in IE ;-))
Jan 14 21:04:41 <groszek> I see there is even nintendo-ds version of it
Jan 14 21:05:02 <gena2x> groszek: working as activex in IE seems disadvantage for me ;)
Jan 14 21:05:33 <groszek> it's aim is to work everywhere in the same manner, no matter if it's real hardware or some weird environment like activex object
Jan 14 21:05:47 <groszek> however the language used is a little mindfuck for me :)
Jan 14 21:06:36 <groszek> if you never tried inferno, do, it's cool.
Jan 14 21:07:00 <gena2x> groszek: i'm for 1 week on openmoko irc, but now have things to digest for 2 months.
Jan 14 21:07:46 <groszek> hrhr.
Jan 14 21:30:41 <DocScrutinizer51> inferno? sounds tempting like sniffing pattex
Jan 14 21:31:35 <DocScrutinizer51> well on maemo you have to flash fiasko images. Not a jota better name
Jan 14 21:32:26 <DocScrutinizer51> and even OM had asassin
Jan 14 21:33:04 <DocScrutinizer51> which I fail to associate to a special function or app til today - wonder why
Jan 14 21:38:22 <groszek> inferno, it's protocol called styx, programming language limbo and virtual machine Dis
Jan 14 21:38:31 <groszek> :]
Jan 14 23:27:43 <groszek> has anyone seen a problem where booting of SHR stops on "freeing unused kernel memory" ?
Jan 14 23:28:22 <groszek> if I connect/disconnect usb, it shows messages regarding charging
Jan 14 23:28:54 <groszek> this image worked before, and even today, before I turned it off and on... then I even reinstalled, but problem is still there...
Jan 14 23:30:37 <groszek> hm. I think I know the problem, android test installed Qi, and when I boot from aux+power it gives me penguin logo
Jan 14 23:30:49 <groszek> just to note :F
Jan 15 02:54:51 <naquan> Hi everyone. Is it ok to mount /mnt/debian to an ext3 partition and run Debian install.sh script ignoring all the partitioning stages? did anyone try to install debian on ext3 partion yet?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 15 02:59:57 2010