**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 15 02:59:57 2010
Jan 15 03:16:21 <naquan> no one? :( i guess i must try it myseft.
Jan 15 03:17:10 <DocScrutinizerFZ> guess U should ask T+8h
Jan 15 03:18:16 <DocScrutinizerFZ> even +12
Jan 15 03:23:14 <naquan> DocScrutinizerFZ, what's "T+8h"?
Jan 15 03:24:16 <DocScrutinizerFZ> roundabout 11:30 UTC aka GMT
Jan 15 03:36:14 <naquan> I got "xserver-xorg-core: Conflicts: xserver-xorg-input-4" message and the installer won't continue, it's on fso stage. :(
Jan 15 03:36:42 <naquan> is there some thing wrong with the repositories?
Jan 15 11:09:29 <Psi> hey, whats the biggest nokia battery i can stick in a gta01?
Jan 15 11:09:34 <Psi> bl-6c ?
Jan 15 11:11:02 <PaulFertser> Psi: yes
Jan 15 11:11:11 <PaulFertser> Psi: but charging is complicated :(
Jan 15 11:11:16 <Psi> ah
Jan 15 11:11:17 <PaulFertser> Psi: need more details?
Jan 15 11:11:26 <Psi> ok, is there any nokia battery that it will charge fine?
Jan 15 11:11:34 <PaulFertser> Psi: well it depends
Jan 15 11:12:56 <PaulFertser> Psi: the problem is thermo-sensor used. Some stupid blindly copied an example from the pcf50606 datasheet to have 10k as a reference. So the battery thermistor should be 10k in the middle point. There're several ways to workaround this.
Jan 15 11:14:34 <PaulFertser> Psi: one option would be to solder some 12k in parallel to the ID pin somewhere near the battery terminals on the device itself. Changing the thermistor inside battery is more complicated, i tried disassmbling it once, it's uncool.
Jan 15 11:14:44 <Psi> hm..
Jan 15 11:15:00 <Psi> do you happen to know what voltage gta01 will stop working at?
Jan 15 11:15:07 <Psi> battery voltage
Jan 15 11:15:44 <PaulFertser> Psi: the other option would be to tweak one pcf50606 register and it'll allow you to charge any battery without hardware mods with 200mA maximum, but that current is also going to run the system, so you do not have much left. If you suspend to ram it'd be more, so probably that's an option.
Jan 15 11:16:17 <Psi> just wondering if i should slap 3x AA's on the back of the phone
Jan 15 11:16:17 <PaulFertser> Psi: the third way is to boot the device, connect it to USB and then "poweroff". This allows full 500mA charging for the reasons unknown.
Jan 15 11:17:03 <PaulFertser> Psi: battery voltage shouldn't exceed 5V but as soon as it's more than 3V you should be ok. The lower limit is mandated by Calypso and i do not remember it exactly.
Jan 15 11:17:56 <Psi> ok, that sounds like a plan then
Jan 15 11:18:12 <PaulFertser> Psi: i think i'd go with option 1. BTW, it would be nice to change the reference R on gta01 to match nokia's batteries but it's under that can that is soldered :(
Jan 15 11:18:50 <PaulFertser> Psi: we never controlled battery temperature on gta02 and nothing bad happened.
Jan 15 11:21:10 <Psi> im thinking i will make a backpack that holds 3x 2500mAh AA's
Jan 15 11:33:29 <Psi> so why do you say 12k in parallel?
Jan 15 11:41:37 <PaulFertser> Psi: well, nokia battery has ~70k, connected in parallel with 12k it would be withing limits.
Jan 15 11:42:25 <Psi> 12k in parallel is 6k
Jan 15 11:43:06 <PaulFertser> Psi: the battery has ~70k
Jan 15 11:43:18 <PaulFertser> Psi: the idea is to connect 12k in parallel to the battery id pin.
Jan 15 11:43:46 <Psi> ah, ok, i mean for using AA's
Jan 15 11:43:59 <Psi> to fool the neo into thinking it has a temp sensor and its within limit
Jan 15 11:44:47 <PaulFertser> Psi: then 10k will exactly suit.
Jan 15 11:45:00 <Psi> is it to + or - ?  
Jan 15 11:45:19 <Psi> NTC/PTC
Jan 15 12:17:54 <SpeedEvil> A fixed resistor of 12K 
Jan 15 12:21:35 <Psi> yeah, but its got to be from the id pin to gnd or plus
Jan 15 12:21:59 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jan 15 12:22:12 <SpeedEvil> easy enough to measure if you have an existing bat
Jan 15 12:22:19 <Psi> yeah
Jan 15 12:22:22 <SpeedEvil> measure voltage from + to T and - to t
Jan 15 12:22:25 <SpeedEvil> one way should be 0v
Jan 15 12:22:40 <SpeedEvil> that is the way of the resistor.
Jan 15 12:23:43 <Psi> or measure the resistance
Jan 15 12:24:01 <Psi> should be inf to one side and ~70k to the other
Jan 15 12:24:10 <SpeedEvil> well - that way is a bit complex as you don't know what teh multimeter wuill do when voltage is applied to it
Jan 15 12:24:31 <SpeedEvil> you also have the battery in there - which one way round is in series 
Jan 15 12:25:08 <Psi> yeah, but only one side of the resistor is connected to the battery
Jan 15 12:25:14 <Psi> so it shouldnt effect the meter
Jan 15 12:25:59 <SpeedEvil> If you connect it one way - you get a true reading. If you connect it the other, you are measuring it with teh battery in series
Jan 15 12:26:12 <Psi> yep
Jan 15 12:26:12 <SpeedEvil> which will not give an accurate reading on any multimeter
Jan 15 12:26:31 <Psi> you're right, wasnt thinking 
Jan 15 12:26:41 <Psi> getting abit late here, 1:26am
Jan 15 12:27:16 <SpeedEvil> I'm contemplating getting out of bed here.
Jan 15 12:27:27 <SpeedEvil> Just past noon.
Jan 15 12:27:38 <SpeedEvil> And a balmy 4.8C inside.
Jan 15 12:40:40 <PaulFertser> Psi: to GND
Jan 15 12:40:47 <Psi> thanks
Jan 15 12:41:01 <PaulFertser> Psi: if you hilighted me i'd have answered faster :)
Jan 15 12:41:29 <Psi> is that the sensor is to ground or the added resistor should be to ground
Jan 15 12:42:09 <SpeedEvil> If you're creating a new battery - the resistor is in place of the sensor. to ground.
Jan 15 12:42:12 <PaulFertser> Psi: the thermistor inside the battery is ID<->thermistor<->GND. So you connect a fixed R in parallel, i.e. between ID and GND terminals.
Jan 15 12:42:18 <SpeedEvil> It's to fake that there is a sensor tehre, and it's in range.
Jan 15 12:42:26 <SpeedEvil> OItherwise you need a proper thermistor
Jan 15 12:42:34 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i'm suggesting to shunt nokia's battery thermistor with something that will make gta01 think the temperature's in range.
Jan 15 12:42:54 <Psi> ahh
Jan 15 12:43:03 <Psi> really need to sleep
Jan 15 12:43:05 <Psi> mind isnt working
Jan 15 12:43:15 <SpeedEvil> yes - that's what I was trying to explain.
Jan 15 12:44:00 <Wonka> mmh... isn't there some communication between battery and FR too?
Jan 15 12:44:08 <Wonka> is that over the ID pin or where?
Jan 15 12:44:35 <PaulFertser> Wonka: on FR yes
Jan 15 12:48:18 <Psi> Wonka: gta01 doesnt have a smart battery like gta02
Jan 15 12:49:40 <Wonka> ah
Jan 15 12:52:33 <KenYoung> Does anyone know if http://projects.openmoko.org/ is down forever?
Jan 15 13:19:13 <pbaxter> hi all
Jan 15 17:27:40 <groszek> is there some kind of phone/sms indicator that I could put on top bar of illume (shr) ?
Jan 15 17:27:48 <groszek> unread/missed calls, that is
Jan 15 17:28:09 <groszek> there is an indicator on screenlock which is so annoying it's the first thing to remove 
Jan 15 17:34:32 <Serdar1> hi guys
Jan 15 18:03:47 <badcloud_> hey all
Jan 15 18:04:12 <badcloud_> is there a command line mail client for shr/openmoko?
Jan 15 18:04:37 <badcloud_> claws is cluttered to say the least
Jan 15 18:04:45 <groszek> mutt? :]
Jan 15 18:05:05 <badcloud_> hmmm, didn't seem to be in opkg's list
Jan 15 18:05:09 <badcloud_> do you have a link?
Jan 15 18:06:19 <groszek> well no, but it shouldn't be hard to compile
Jan 15 18:06:49 <badcloud_> I can't get my assembler to work on the fr
Jan 15 18:06:54 <badcloud_> ¤%&/
Jan 15 18:07:03 <groszek> I'd compile it on normal computer, you know :)
Jan 15 18:07:48 <badcloud_> I think I might do that
Jan 15 18:15:16 <badcloud_> how tricky is that for someone who has never cross-compiled before?
Jan 15 18:16:36 <groszek> not really, just installing precompiled toolchain and you're set
Jan 15 18:19:51 <Weiss> possibly some faff with libraries
Jan 15 18:20:00 * Weiss checks his mail on the FR with Mutt+SSH
Jan 15 18:20:15 <spoodel> Can anyone recommend a keyboard that I can use with my neo?  I am guessing it would be Bluetooth.  But can I plug in a wired keyboard?  If so I will need some sort of unusual USB connector... 
Jan 15 18:21:33 <groszek> just usb hub connected to microsd port, and any keyboard. however it would look hilarious if you'd get normal keyboard in a bus or whatever, to type sms ;-)
Jan 15 18:22:34 <badcloud_> Weiss, faff?
Jan 15 18:23:36 <badcloud_> nm, gotta go
Jan 15 18:23:45 <badcloud_> thanks for all the fish/info
Jan 15 18:27:00 <spoodel> Does anyone know of a mini USB male to male cable for sale?  Or would I have to solder one up?
Jan 15 18:27:46 <spoodel> I'm just asking because I would like to do some development work on this device, and it takes about 10 minutes to do a single bash command using the on-screen keyboard
Jan 15 18:28:42 <spoodel>  I think I need a keyboard just to get to the point where I could tunnel in via ssh from a laptop
Jan 15 18:30:17 <PaulFertser> spoodel: usb networking should work out-of-the box with any sane distro on freerunner.
Jan 15 18:33:42 <spoodel> PaulFertser: I know that this always leads to arguments, but could you recommend a distro, so that I can get it running in virtual box in xp, and do development work this way?
Jan 15 18:34:31 <groszek> gentoo is fastest to install and play
Jan 15 18:34:38 <groszek> and easiest to manage those tools
Jan 15 18:34:48 <groszek> there is probably ebuild for FR toolchain :)
Jan 15 18:34:51 <PaulFertser> spoodel: distro for a desktop PC?
Jan 15 18:35:27 <spoodel> I am using a netbook - eeepc 901 xp
Jan 15 18:35:38 <PaulFertser> spoodel: if you're going to develop with OE it doesn't matter much which GNU/Linux distro you use.
Jan 15 18:35:59 * DocScrutinizer51 yawns violently
Jan 15 18:36:15 <DocScrutinizer51> (no comment though ;)
Jan 15 18:36:17 <PaulFertser> I do not think using "om toolchain" is any fun, too many problems with getting dependencies while OE does that for you automatically. Another option is to go pure debian way: qemubuilder
Jan 15 18:36:23 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: hey :)
Jan 15 18:36:25 <brian_> i will turn the burner on  ---U need Slackware
Jan 15 18:36:43 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer51: is it getting any better in DE weather-wise? Here it's damn warm, > -10C.
Jan 15 18:37:22 <DocScrutinizer51> here even sorta snow melting away - yesterday
Jan 15 18:37:23 <PaulFertser> spoodel: btw, if you going to use Python, you do not need anything at all, you can easily develop and test on both FR and your PC without compilation.
Jan 15 18:38:45 <spoodel> are there are any devs close to London in the channel?  I would be very happy to pay someone to tutor me.
Jan 15 18:39:35 <DocScrutinizer51> andy is :-P
Jan 15 18:40:11 <DocScrutinizer51> I doubt he has the time or is even willing to do that though
Jan 15 18:41:36 <spoodel> I know that you wonderful people are dispensing gems for free online, but I'm not fluent around Linux, and together with RSI I'm not sure if I am ever going to break the surface on my own
Jan 15 18:44:46 <PBeck> hi
Jan 15 18:49:00 * PaulFertser wished he was near London :(((
Jan 15 18:50:00 <PaulFertser> spoodel: i've read somewhere that using Dvorak layout makes RSI somewhat less of an issue.
Jan 15 18:50:50 <spoodel> I wonder if anyone has ever contemplated this as a feature for fr: when you connect via USB the computer sees a thumb drive.  So you could put some programs on the thumb drive that let you tap into it from pretty much any computer.  
Jan 15 18:51:24 <PaulFertser> spoodel: there's a possibility to do that, the resulting "usb mass storage device" is quite slow (usb1.1) but works ok.
Jan 15 18:51:56 <PaulFertser> spoodel: rmmod g_ether; modprobe g_file_storage file=/root/slax.image stall=0
Jan 15 18:54:29 <mmontour> spoodel: I do that - I run images from the uSD card, and have a small rootfs in NAND that exports the uSD card as a mass-storage device. It means I never have to physically take the card out of the FR.
Jan 15 18:55:02 <spoodel> !! coooooool
Jan 15 18:55:34 <spoodel> gtg
Jan 15 18:55:38 <spoodel> thxall :)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 15 22:39:35 2010
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 15 23:09:17 2010
Jan 15 23:17:00 <cosmos__> SpeedEvil: the FR catch radio bands?
Jan 15 23:17:00 <cosmos__> SppedEvil: I mean AM and FM?
Jan 15 23:23:24 <brian_> installed the 6.1 kernel   now i have no sound for phone
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 16 02:59:56 2010