**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 25 02:59:57 2010
Jan 25 03:57:45 <slaxxer> i need a gps antenna
Jan 25 04:00:35 <SpeedEvil> you mean you have broken your existing one - or you need an external?
Jan 25 04:03:09 <slaxxer> i have broken the plug on the internel connection while i was replacing the screen
Jan 25 04:03:24 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jan 25 04:03:35 <SpeedEvil> Broken - or bent?
Jan 25 04:49:29 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxer: see #gta02-core chan
Jan 25 05:19:03 <d1b> hi what happened to koolu?
Jan 25 11:52:32 <ThibG> is it safe to upgrade SHR-u now?
Jan 25 12:17:35 <rosa> hi
Jan 25 15:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> what's wrong here?????
Jan 25 15:32:17 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxer: PING
Jan 25 15:55:17 <slaxxer> hey doc
Jan 25 15:55:41 <slaxxer> central usa   is where im at
Jan 25 15:57:38 <slaxxer> i was thinking of just buying a returned moko    for 75 us dollars    that way i get another replacement screen(maybe)    an some spare stuff:)
Jan 25 15:58:06 <slaxxer> they had 1 the mic was not working on
Jan 25 15:58:36 <slaxxer> i think it was sdg systems on the east coast
Jan 25 16:00:03 <slaxxer> "Doc"
Jan 25 16:12:51 <pva_theor> Hi. Anybody have problems with current shr testing? I've just upgraded phone and now X screen is just black. Also I guess not relevant, but mokomaze fails to upgrade: http://pastebin.ca/1765279
Jan 25 16:14:39 <JaMa> pva_theor: seems that you're upgrading shr-unstable not shr-testing
Jan 25 16:15:12 <pva_theor> JaMa: I've just checked and seems you are right.
Jan 25 16:15:30 <pva_theor> So, this is known issue, right? Any workarounds?
Jan 25 16:16:13 <Weiss> echo 150 >/sys/class/backlight/gta02-bl/brightness should work for now
Jan 25 16:16:54 <JaMa> pva_theor: if you have shr-t image and upgrading from shr-u feeds than it's not known issue
Jan 25 16:17:44 <JaMa> pva_theor: if you have shr-u image and asking about shr-t is just your error.. then it's "knonw"
Jan 25 16:20:49 <pva_theor> Weiss: that helped. Thanks.
Jan 25 16:24:57 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxer: aaah. Hi
Jan 25 16:25:47 <pva_theor> JaMa: I think first. At least /etc/shr-version mentions shr/testing2009-1rc1 and opkg downloads from unstable repositories. Thanks too.
Jan 25 16:26:04 <DocScrutinizer> slaxxer: as I elaborated in *core, you're welcome to send me IRC and SAE and you get a spare antenna
Jan 25 16:34:14 <SpeedEvil> If you don't use it mobile - you can also get a plugin antena that works just fine from dx for $5 or so
Jan 25 19:17:37 <Wonka> argh. how does one make mokonnect shutdown a connection?
Jan 25 19:18:00 <Wonka> it's not really funny to have usb networking, wifi and gprs running in parallel ;)
Jan 25 19:18:25 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 25 19:18:27 <mickeyl> why not?
Jan 25 19:18:39 <mickeyl> fallbacks
Jan 25 19:19:48 <Wonka> mmh. there's always something coming and going over a running gprs connection... i'd like to kill that one so it's not billed meanwhile.
Jan 25 19:20:09 <mickeyl> hmm
Jan 25 19:20:15 <mickeyl> even with proper routes set up?
Jan 25 19:20:24 <mickeyl> (you have a volume rate, right?)
Jan 25 19:20:45 <mickeyl> i'm working on adding some more high level support to fsonetworkd
Jan 25 19:20:50 <mickeyl> so you can chose preferred networks
Jan 25 19:20:54 <Wonka> 200M free per month, "billed" in 10k elements, at least every hour or so. 
Jan 25 19:20:54 <mickeyl> and it will autoconfigure the routes etc.
Jan 25 19:21:13 <mickeyl> giving you a top level view over all "connectivity" options
Jan 25 19:21:22 <Wonka> working resolvconf would be fine too...
Jan 25 19:21:38 <mickeyl> yes, that's part of the deal
Jan 25 19:22:05 <Wonka> and I think the ppp-off scripts do a "rm -f /etc/resolv.conf ; echo nameserver 127.0.0.1 > /etc/resolv.conf", which is absolutely stupid
Jan 25 19:22:19 <Wonka> even with resolvconf installed
Jan 25 19:22:20 <mickeyl> that's gone already
Jan 25 19:22:23 <mickeyl> (in fso2)
Jan 25 19:22:24 <Wonka> cool
Jan 25 19:22:28 <Wonka> in shr-u too?
Jan 25 19:22:31 <mickeyl> no
Jan 25 19:22:39 <mickeyl> as it's part of the new fsogsmd
Jan 25 19:22:44 <Wonka> ah
Jan 25 19:22:48 <mickeyl> and this is missing some more calypso goodness
Jan 25 19:22:50 <Serdar1> is there any port of webos?
Jan 25 19:23:01 <mickeyl> "of" or "to"?
Jan 25 19:23:05 <mickeyl> if you really mean, "of"
Jan 25 19:23:07 <mickeyl> how could there
Jan 25 19:23:07 <Wonka> I'd so like to try some of the newer stuff...
Jan 25 19:23:08 <mickeyl> it's all closed
Jan 25 19:23:40 <mickeyl> Wonka: i don't have much time these days, but i'll try to finish fsogsmd as much as possible and then will do a blog posting for folks eager to try. hopefully next month
Jan 25 19:23:56 <Wonka> can't await it ;)
Jan 25 19:24:25 <Wonka> failed finding Moblin or Maemo for FR... :/
Jan 25 19:24:40 <SpeedEvil> maemo for anything doesn't exist.
Jan 25 19:24:42 <Wonka> interface of hackable:1 is so OM2008...
Jan 25 19:24:54 <mickeyl> yeah
Jan 25 19:24:59 <mickeyl> i need to kick the guys to help me more
Jan 25 19:25:02 <Wonka> SpeedEvil: for Nokia N900 it did exist, I thought?
Jan 25 19:25:05 <SpeedEvil> maemo is - basically - mer + nokia proprietory binary elements
Jan 25 19:25:07 <mickeyl> so we can progress w/ fso2 faster ;)
Jan 25 19:25:16 <SpeedEvil> I mean - for anything - it exists for the n900
Jan 25 19:25:22 <SpeedEvil> Manyt components do not have source.
Jan 25 19:25:24 <Wonka> mer for FR is nonexistend too
Jan 25 19:25:42 <mickeyl> many people underestimate the amount of system integration
Jan 25 19:25:47 <mickeyl> they start w/ enthusiasm
Jan 25 19:25:52 <mickeyl> get pretty far in short time
Jan 25 19:25:55 <mickeyl> then hit the walls
Jan 25 19:25:56 <Wonka> »If the file were available, this is how it would be installed to a sd-card.«
Jan 25 19:25:57 <mickeyl> and give up
Jan 25 19:26:15 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: yeah. There are _so_many_ 'last 10%' 's to get usability.
Jan 25 19:26:24 <mickeyl> *nod*
Jan 25 19:26:25 <Wonka> »The latest release 0.15 cannot be downloaded from [...]«
Jan 25 19:26:44 <Wonka> mer is there for everything _but_ the FR
Jan 25 19:26:47 <Wonka> *sigh*
Jan 25 19:26:58 <mickeyl> well
Jan 25 19:27:02 <mickeyl> sooner or later we have good middleware
Jan 25 19:27:06 <mickeyl> but that's only 1/2 of it
Jan 25 19:27:13 <mickeyl> then we seriously need to find a UI
Jan 25 19:27:31 <mickeyl> i, for one, would love to see WebOS
Jan 25 19:27:38 <mickeyl> but with that being superclosed... :/
Jan 25 19:27:49 <Wonka> I would like to see a browser with finger scrolling...
Jan 25 19:28:04 <Wonka> midori sucks.
Jan 25 19:28:18 <fredrin> true
Jan 25 19:28:26 <Wonka> I type one letter into the address bar and there's a combo box popdown all over the keyboard
Jan 25 19:28:27 <fredrin> FR is epic fail, but fun in a strange way
Jan 25 19:28:33 <fredrin> it lives it own life
Jan 25 19:28:48 <Wonka> so the next tap hits not a letter but a history element
Jan 25 19:28:51 <fredrin> in 4 days i got a n900
Jan 25 19:29:30 <fredrin> after almost two years with only FR as my phone, it will be good to be online again and I can call with confidence 
Jan 25 19:30:36 <mickeyl> ya
Jan 25 19:30:40 <mickeyl> sad for the freedom part
Jan 25 19:30:41 <mickeyl> but good for you
Jan 25 19:30:56 <Wonka> I use my FR for IRC on the bus and for mapping stuff - finding locations by GPS and maps, recording GPS tracks
Jan 25 19:31:15 <fredrin> i am a much more pragatic guy now
Jan 25 19:31:24 <Wonka> by the way, I tried adding a new contact in shr-contacts...
Jan 25 19:31:29 <Wonka> it didn't show up
Jan 25 19:31:39 <Wonka> I added it again, a little different.
Jan 25 19:31:42 <Wonka> still not
Jan 25 19:31:44 <Serdar1> webos is closed? it supposed to be gpl3
Jan 25 19:31:46 <Wonka> i closed contacts
Jan 25 19:31:49 <Wonka> reopened it
Jan 25 19:31:52 <Wonka> there were both
Jan 25 19:32:08 <Wonka> seems the list is not updated after adding a new contact
Jan 25 19:32:14 <mickeyl> Serdar1: really? where did you see that?
Jan 25 19:32:39 <Heinervdm> then we can ask for the sources :D
Jan 25 19:32:49 <mickeyl> as far as i can see, everything except the actual apps (html, hence free) and webkit itself and the kernel seems closed
Jan 25 19:32:58 <Serdar1> oh this is strange
Jan 25 19:33:02 <Serdar1> the german wiki says gpl
Jan 25 19:33:03 <Serdar1> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_webOS
Jan 25 19:33:32 <mickeyl> ya, that's completely wrong
Jan 25 19:33:34 <mickeyl> always the same
Jan 25 19:33:39 <mickeyl> "we have an open source OS"
Jan 25 19:33:44 <mickeyl> "cool, where's the source?"
Jan 25 19:33:48 <mickeyl> "oh... here's the kernel"
Jan 25 19:33:54 <mickeyl> "err... is that everything?"
Jan 25 19:33:57 <mickeyl> "yes, sorry..."
Jan 25 19:34:01 <mickeyl> "but we have an open source OS"
Jan 25 19:34:04 <mickeyl> ...
Jan 25 19:34:17 <mickeyl> *shrug*
Jan 25 19:34:30 <mickeyl> if the OS is a kernel
Jan 25 19:34:34 <mickeyl> then they're probably right
Jan 25 19:34:37 <groszek> that sounds like motorola's ezx platform
Jan 25 19:34:38 <mickeyl> linux is indeed GPL
Jan 25 19:34:43 <mickeyl> groszek: yep
Jan 25 19:35:29 <Serdar> test
Jan 25 19:35:38 <Serdar> fweh
Jan 25 19:36:16 <Serdar> nobody could read, what I wrote, right?
Jan 25 19:36:33 <matze|> no
Jan 25 19:36:38 <Serdar> I see.
Jan 25 19:37:06 <Serdar> I needed to close 3 channels to be able change my nick...
Jan 25 19:37:42 <Serdar> so, webos is a closed source system above a linux kernel, right?
Jan 25 19:38:17 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: It's not _quite_ that bad. The kernel is open - much of the rest - other than the UI elements are open. So - provide your own WM, and all the drivers are already there. 
Jan 25 19:38:21 <mickeyl> Serdar: pretty much, yes
Jan 25 19:38:26 <Serdar> I was interested after reading gpl, but if it's only kernel, the excitement is broken.
Jan 25 19:38:40 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: sounds better than it is
Jan 25 19:38:43 <mickeyl> did you check the modem?
Jan 25 19:38:44 <SpeedEvil> (n900)
Jan 25 19:38:51 <mickeyl> oh, you mean the n900
Jan 25 19:38:56 <mickeyl> sorry, was thinking palm
Jan 25 19:39:00 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: yes - sorry.
Jan 25 19:39:25 <mickeyl> yes, the n900 might be good. Alas, Nokia kind of pissed me off, that's why I'm having a hard time liking it
Jan 25 19:39:34 <mickeyl> plus, it's a brick. personally i prefer a smaller form factor
Jan 25 19:39:41 <mickeyl> although i'd love to have a keyboard
Jan 25 19:40:09 <mickeyl> besides
Jan 25 19:40:11 <SpeedEvil> I don't think you're getting much smaller withhwkbd
Jan 25 19:40:12 <mickeyl> it's not quite that good
Jan 25 19:40:12 <Serdar> yeah keyboard's nice.
Jan 25 19:40:31 <mickeyl> according to the architecture picture, there's a ton of closed stuff in the n900
Jan 25 19:40:36 <mickeyl> like... power management
Jan 25 19:40:37 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: After 2 months - pretty much my only complaint is that tehy only included one stylus.
Jan 25 19:40:48 <mickeyl> hehe
Jan 25 19:40:51 <Serdar> http://pulster.de/index.htm?d__btkeyboard__Openmoko_Freerunner_Bluetooth_Mini_Keyboard1049.htm how's this?
Jan 25 19:40:52 <mickeyl> they used to ship one spare with it
Jan 25 19:41:31 <Wonka> mickeyl: not in summer 2008
Jan 25 19:41:38 <Wonka> eh, 2007
Jan 25 19:41:49 <mickeyl> hmm, i have a 770 and a 810
Jan 25 19:41:50 <Wonka> or was it 2008?
Jan 25 19:41:52 <Wonka> <- confused
Jan 25 19:41:52 <mickeyl> both came with extra stylus
Jan 25 19:41:58 <Wonka> I have only one
Jan 25 19:42:11 <Serdar> okay paul-trigger is a bot and dislike urls, right?
Jan 25 19:42:12 <Wonka> and a packet of gummy bears
Jan 25 19:42:32 <mickeyl> Serdar: yes, we had some attacks these days
Jan 25 19:42:43 <Wonka> Serdar: spammer urls at least. we had some spambot problems on freenode the last days.
Jan 25 19:42:55 * SpeedEvil needs to get his neo1973 up and running as a microwave controller.
Jan 25 19:42:55 <Serdar> pulster sent me gummy bears too after I ordered 3 debug boards :)
Jan 25 19:43:20 <Serdar> mickeyl, how's white and blacklists?
Jan 25 19:43:48 <Serdar> how are
Jan 25 19:44:07 <mickeyl> dunno whether that works against botnets
Jan 25 19:44:17 <Wonka> I just had a FR and a debug board
Jan 25 19:44:25 <SeligArkin> Hrm, I need to find that keyboard somewhere else o the tubes, cause it looks like its just the right size for what I want
Jan 25 19:45:07 <SpeedEvil> Someone clicks a link. It opens a site with a form. They press the form submit. Hidden fields in the form do the join/... commands - and the IRC server ignores the POSt line
Jan 25 19:45:37 <Wonka> SeligArkin: just read the website... there's a link to http://www.freedominput.com/freedom-accessories/slim-keypad
Jan 25 19:45:49 <Wonka> SeligArkin: and that has a "buy now" button
Jan 25 19:46:04 * SeligArkin can't read dutch. :P
Jan 25 19:46:06 <Serdar> hihi.
Jan 25 19:46:18 <Serdar> dutch?
Jan 25 19:46:36 <Serdar> my link wasn't dutch and his is english.
Jan 25 19:46:40 <Wonka> SeligArkin: *slap* it's german
Jan 25 19:47:08 <Serdar> slap him twice, I can't reach him :p
Jan 25 19:47:08 <SeligArkin> Sorry
Jan 25 19:47:50 <SeligArkin> "Sorry but the Produce you've requested wasn't found!"
Jan 25 19:49:21 <Serdar> SeligArkin, where are you from?
Jan 25 19:50:19 <SeligArkin> US, which explains my ignorance for the rest of the world. :P
Jan 25 19:51:08 <Serdar> hmm it will cost you 59 EUR + 30 EUR shipping.
Jan 25 19:51:23 <Serdar> mabe you will get it cheaper, no idea.
Jan 25 19:51:32 <Serdar> look at pulster.eu it's in english
Jan 25 19:56:17 <SeligArkin> Eep, now if only I had 125$ to spend
Jan 25 22:49:32 <kstar> Thanks for SHR! The new one looks really cool ^:-)^
Jan 25 22:50:20 <kstar> A question: Is there a package for pygsmd (or whatever the python bindings for the GSM stack are called)
Jan 25 22:58:59 <JaMa> kstar: frameworkd (which provides ogsmd) is written in python
Jan 25 23:11:37 <DocScrutinizer> please everybody with a FR: can you do the following test: check hw clock settings with command "hwclock" in terminal. (make sure it's not like 01.01.1970 or sth, a reasonable time would be fine). Then power down device and remove battery for 5 minutes. Reinsert battery, boot up to a state without internet connectivity and without using GPS, and check again with "hwclock". Then report here if time is roundabout the same it was before 
Jan 25 23:11:39 <DocScrutinizer> battery removal, or if it's been reset by that procedure
Jan 25 23:12:23 <DocScrutinizer> Thanks a lot. This will help us building better devices (if we ever get to do such enterprise)
Jan 25 23:13:28 <JaMa> DocScrutinizer: does it sync time also through GSM? or having SIM in slot is ok?
Jan 25 23:13:39 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: hey! shr users should not mess with command line, shouldn't you use frameworkd to read rtc?
Jan 25 23:13:43 * lindi- hides
Jan 25 23:14:14 <DocScrutinizer> JaMa: good point. you probably should remove SIM
Jan 25 23:14:22 <lindi-> JaMa: i have never heard that anybody would have managed to get time from gsm on freerunner
Jan 25 23:14:33 <lindi-> JaMa: i would be really happy to be proven wrong on this one :)
Jan 25 23:14:34 <cz_jc> GPS provides time
Jan 25 23:15:07 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: you can *read* whatever you want, anytime and any way you like. You need to know to read the results though
Jan 25 23:15:14 <JaMa> lindi-: but I have fsotdld running (not so common on freerunners).. so maybe it works :)
Jan 25 23:15:53 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: good :)
Jan 25 23:16:05 <JaMa> cz_jc: but it needs fix no? so running it indoors and checking it few mins after boot shouldn't get time soon enough..
Jan 25 23:16:27 <cz_jc> JaMa, mine gets a fix indoors in about a minute
Jan 25 23:16:47 <JaMa> well my neo is already down, ping me back in 4 mins :)
Jan 25 23:17:47 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: (time over GSM) not in Europe. Allegedly some US carriers provision a working service
Jan 25 23:19:40 <gena2x> may be better it's better to call this via maillist?
Jan 25 23:20:59 <DocScrutinizer> PS re "please everybody": while you fremove your bat, you have 5 minutes to copy the datecode under the battery. Please post this datecode together with your result of "time reset" / "time kept correct"
Jan 25 23:23:45 <kstar> JaMa: But does it have bindings to, for instance, send SMS?
Jan 25 23:26:22 <JaMa> DocScrutinizer: 20080725 - time reset to 1.1.2000
Jan 25 23:27:39 <gena2x> dont forget to remove usb power too, btw :)
Jan 25 23:28:32 <JaMa> DocScrutinizer: I hope that booting .32 kernel instead of previous .29-rc3 cannot change that..
Jan 25 23:28:55 <DocScrutinizer> JaMa: quite probably unrelated
Jan 25 23:29:21 <JaMa> rebooting again to .29-rc3 + SIM
Jan 25 23:30:17 <DocScrutinizer> well, many thanks JaMa. now we got some 160 users here with pending reports
Jan 25 23:30:50 <DocScrutinizer> please everybody. this is intended to be a mass test for statistics
Jan 25 23:31:02 * SpeedEvil has no FR alas.
Jan 25 23:33:02 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, even when Europe might be asleep right now, I still expect quite a number of US and Asian users in here
Jan 25 23:33:27 <JaMa> hehe Europe never sleeps
Jan 25 23:33:53 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, there'S always this one guy around... :-P
Jan 25 23:42:43 <Weiss> DocScrutinizer: sleepy time now, but will do the test tomorrow when I'm bored for 5 mins
Jan 25 23:43:00 <DocScrutinizer> Weiss: many thanks
Jan 25 23:49:25 <JaMa> DocScrutinizer: rebooted again with same kernel and it time did reset again
Jan 25 23:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> JaMa: good (?). So obviously your backup battery doesn't perform too decent
Jan 25 23:51:59 <DocScrutinizer> JaMa: actually I'm less concerned about fals "positives" (time reset). Rather I expect to see false negatives where the time gets synced via GPS, GSM, or NTPD without user even noticing
Jan 25 23:52:05 <JaMa> yeah :/ just wanted to retest to see that different kernel really wasn't the reason.. but crappy bbat was
Jan 25 23:53:45 <DocScrutinizer> JaMa: enjoy it. You'll never see a PMU lockup due to wrong MBC register setup kept during main bat removal or drainage
Jan 25 23:54:47 * JaMa feels better now, thanks DocS, now I can go to bed :)
Jan 25 23:57:17 <DocScrutinizer> JaMa: night. And thanks again
Jan 25 23:57:27 <JaMa> you're welcome
Jan 25 23:57:42 <JaMa> gl with other testers :/
Jan 25 23:57:55 <DocScrutinizer> yup  :-S
Jan 26 00:18:48 <BillK> DocScrutinizer: FR loses time after about 1m of battery out.  Sometimes less :(
Jan 26 00:19:18 <DocScrutinizer> BillK: many thanks
Jan 26 00:19:36 <DocScrutinizer> BillK: would you by any incidence know your datecode?
Jan 26 00:20:33 <BillK> can I get it via software? - its a first release batch v5 (old ...)
Jan 26 00:21:04 <DocScrutinizer> BillK: that's good enough info
Jan 26 00:21:21 <BillK> k
Jan 26 00:21:33 <DocScrutinizer> BillK: and no, I don't think it can be retrieved via sw
Jan 26 00:22:02 <BillK> backups finished so its shutting down so I can see under battery ...
Jan 26 00:23:56 <DocScrutinizer> BillK: really not needed. A5 is so old we know enough about age of backup bat without any datecode
Jan 26 00:24:41 <DocScrutinizer> sheeesh netsplit
Jan 26 00:26:04 <DocScrutinizer> please everybody reporting: feel free to update topic. thanks
Jan 26 00:31:27 <BillK> DocScrutinizer: date code 20080703.  Sorry bout delay - typed "halt" on my gateway and not FR :(
Jan 26 00:31:54 <DocScrutinizer> BillK: thanks a lot
Jan 26 00:32:48 <lindi-> thanks for the netsplit :)
Jan 26 00:33:02 <BillK> :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 26 02:59:56 2010