**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 07 02:59:58 2010 Feb 07 05:44:04 opkg upgrade blew up on me for shr-u Feb 07 05:45:20 is it the kernel or what Feb 07 06:03:19 needs swap Feb 07 11:05:46 hi Feb 07 13:17:32 larsc, Are you in Fosdem? Feb 07 13:18:53 I;m looking for you Feb 07 13:18:57 but I don't find Feb 07 13:32:12 yes I'm Feb 07 13:46:11 Hi, Feb 07 13:47:04 Is it normal in Qtmoko>system_info>storage, to have a "home"parition and a "prefix" one? Feb 07 13:47:39 that have exactly the same folders and the same size? Feb 07 14:17:40 cosmos: you will need to format your sd card so that first partition is fat Feb 07 14:25:57 panicking: yes, I'm Feb 07 14:26:08 panicking: in the hacker room in the main building Feb 07 14:29:44 We are at bar 2 Feb 07 14:30:01 near the main building Feb 07 14:30:08 if you have time can you came here Feb 07 14:30:09 ? Feb 07 14:30:13 So finally Feb 07 14:30:16 I can join the new Feb 07 14:30:23 manteiner of the kernel Feb 07 14:30:42 I have problem to go there Feb 07 14:30:46 because I need to check Feb 07 14:30:50 my friend Feb 07 14:30:51 bag Feb 07 14:30:54 and computer Feb 07 14:45:57 where is bar two? Feb 07 14:48:47 behind the main bulding Feb 07 14:48:55 on the right Feb 07 15:00:59 panicking: what should I look for, if I'm looking for you? Feb 07 15:06:10 Ok Feb 07 15:06:14 I'm looking for you Feb 07 15:06:15 now Feb 07 15:06:21 anyway, i'm comming over now. look for a guy with long hair and dark clothes Feb 07 15:06:28 ok Feb 07 15:12:30 Goth meeting ;) Feb 07 15:28:27 goth moaning :-) Feb 07 15:30:37 * PaulFertser should really read the whole article about Goths, the tribe, seems to be interesting Feb 07 15:32:04 damn shame that the "new" goths have ruined it Feb 07 15:32:46 ndnihil: same with nazis Feb 07 15:32:53 * ndnihil puts on some eyeliner and twirly dances around the channel Feb 07 15:33:46 * Weiss wonders if long hair and dark clothes is useful identifying information at an OSS conference Feb 07 15:34:36 most likely not Feb 07 15:38:06 * PaulFertser prefers light colored clothes -- _much_ beter for his mood. Also for the road safety. Feb 07 15:39:43 DocScrutinizer: did you have long hair before? For how long? Feb 07 15:40:33 I had ugly thin long hair until I was age of 21 Feb 07 15:41:15 well "long" Feb 07 15:41:26 * PaulFertser didn't grow up enough to abandon his yet Feb 07 15:41:27 like to the shoulders Feb 07 15:41:50 yours is worth keeping. It looks good enough Feb 07 15:42:02 Thanks :D Feb 07 15:42:31 (blushes) Feb 07 15:43:31 In fact that's much of a hassle, long hair is definetely counter-productional, but it helps me to keep my "non-conformist" identity. Feb 07 15:57:17 * gnufs is playing with his newly arrived freerunner a7+ Feb 07 15:57:19 http://omploader.org/vM2g2dA Feb 07 16:09:49 heh, congrats Feb 07 16:10:03 who's offering A7+ ? Feb 07 16:12:08 Golden Delicious is, at least. Feb 07 16:13:13 whats the + for? Feb 07 16:13:29 Nik is incredible Feb 07 16:13:59 http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg57594.html Feb 07 16:14:04 ndnihil: 1024 basically Feb 07 16:14:21 I thought that was fixed in normal a7 release Feb 07 16:14:35 dunno if they also include the bassfix, the 1uF-0R Feb 07 16:14:59 s/release/revision/ Feb 07 16:14:59 ndnihil meant: I thought that was fixed in normal a7 revision Feb 07 16:15:02 * ndnihil stabs apt Feb 07 16:15:02 nah, #1024 isn't fixed on any off the shelf device Feb 07 16:15:09 ah Feb 07 17:23:33 how to Make a partition in Ext3 on the microSD? Feb 07 17:24:02 use fdisk Feb 07 17:27:37 is ther a tutorial with fdisk for the swapfile and the rootfs+uImage? Feb 07 17:28:00 I'm a little bit lost with fat ext2 and ext3 Feb 07 17:34:22 My microSd cart is inserted in the FR, recognized by the file manager on Qtmoko, but I havn't any /dev/mmcblk0p2 Feb 07 17:35:57 did you create two partitions? Feb 07 17:37:56 printf "p\rq\r" |fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 07 17:48:04 I'm actually on osx, I've lost my connection with the FR. I have to reboot. Come back in 2 minutes Feb 07 17:50:00 hi Feb 07 18:02:37 so... Feb 07 18:02:44 the output is: Feb 07 18:02:48 /dev/mmcblk0p1 1 1950 15659008 c W95 FAT32 (LBA) Feb 07 18:03:54 use fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 07 18:05:50 cosmos: if you consider to boot from uSD, you'll want a 4MB (or more) FVAT partiton, a large ext3 partition, and maybe you also want to have 512MB of swap Feb 07 18:06:17 s/VFAT/FAT32 Feb 07 18:07:07 use fdisk plus the appropriate mkfs.ext3, mkfs.vfat etc commands for that Feb 07 18:07:18 mkswap as well Feb 07 18:08:12 cosmos: you probably want to umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 prior to that Feb 07 18:08:47 umounted Feb 07 18:08:50 then? Feb 07 18:08:55 fdisk Feb 07 18:09:03 create the partitions you want Feb 07 18:09:41 fdisk /dev/mmcb1k0p1? Feb 07 18:09:47 4MB fat32 + xx GB ext3 + 0.5GB swap Feb 07 18:09:59 [2010-02-07 19:03:54] use fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 07 18:10:55 maybe make that 16MB rather than 4MB Feb 07 18:10:55 Unable to open /dev/mmcb1k0 Feb 07 18:11:17 [2010-02-07 19:03:54] use fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 07 18:11:31 thats an l Feb 07 18:11:32 not a 1 Feb 07 18:11:52 ok Feb 07 18:13:03 helps if you try to decode the name: MMC block number 0 Feb 07 18:13:23 tab expansion also helps ;-) Feb 07 18:14:49 fdisk /dem... Feb 07 18:15:16 ok I've deleted all partitions on the microsd card Feb 07 18:15:37 now I have to create 2 partitions? Feb 07 18:15:41 3 Feb 07 18:15:46 or 4 Feb 07 18:15:54 whatever you like Feb 07 18:15:55 ? Feb 07 18:17:29 -> /boot(fat32, 16MB), / or Feb 07 18:18:22 ok so I need a swap one (dos?) and a ext 3 one (for qtmoko), right? Feb 07 18:18:58 -> /boot(fat32, 16MB), / let's try the first alternative.. but why to create a 16Mb fat32 partition on /boot? Feb 07 18:22:58 you need a fat partiton to hold the kernel Feb 07 18:23:13 if you want to boot from that uSD Feb 07 18:23:18 ok Feb 07 18:25:05 so how to start now that the uSD is empty? "n"command (add a new partition) or "o" (create a new empty DOS partiton table...for FAT32?) ? Feb 07 18:27:15 n I'd guess Feb 07 18:27:33 (I prefer cfdisk) Feb 07 18:27:45 What I do, commands: n, p (first cylinder1)...? Feb 07 18:29:18 so /boot is on the primary partition (command n then p)? Feb 07 18:30:15 n Feb 07 18:30:16 p Feb 07 18:30:18 +16M Feb 07 18:30:45 repeat for the rest and substitute the appropriate sizes Feb 07 18:30:49 as doc laid out above Feb 07 18:31:07 when you're done, w Feb 07 18:31:21 actually you'll need to change the type on the swap partition Feb 07 18:31:29 before exiting Feb 07 18:32:26 t, then L to list codes Feb 07 18:32:30 pick linux swap Feb 07 18:32:54 cosmos, have a look at this http://www.hackable1.org/wiki/Installation it showing everything with snapshots Feb 07 18:41:14 cosmos: i recommend to recreate the partition table "o" Feb 07 18:41:23 cosmos: and then create partions the way you like Feb 07 18:41:39 cosmos: some cards might come with a borked table, so better to create it from scratch. Feb 07 18:43:16 ok so I start with "o" Feb 07 18:50:14 now on the "t" command for the partition 1 (/boot): what hex code do I have to choose, the "4" (fat16) or the "c" (W95FAT32), what you advise me (fat32) is different than the tutorial (fat16)? Feb 07 18:51:00 cosmos: for small boot partition i'd recommend fat16 Feb 07 18:51:15 cosmos: in fact i prefer Qi bootloader, it doesn't need any boot partition whatsoever. Feb 07 19:00:39 problem with the swap partition: cannot define 0.5Gb with the numbers of cylinders Feb 07 19:00:58 cosmos: define it like 500Mb Feb 07 19:01:01 Is it ok if the swap file comes on partition 2? Feb 07 19:01:02 500M Feb 07 19:01:29 nah, you want it on the outside of the platters Feb 07 19:01:39 so your filesystem access doesnt suffer :) Feb 07 19:01:43 ok Feb 07 19:02:12 (that was a joke, there's no platters in uSD cards) Feb 07 19:03:44 so swap on partition 2 is ok then? That's more easy to deal with the mysterious cylinders capacity Feb 07 19:04:35 I always make mine as the last partition Feb 07 19:04:47 but that's more out of habit than anything Feb 07 19:05:48 it shouldn't make a difference, but /boot should be the first Feb 07 19:05:57 whichever way you order the rest Feb 07 19:11:45 after "w" It looks that no partition table was written Feb 07 19:12:14 because the mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1 command gives me : Feb 07 19:12:35 /dev/mmcblk1: No such file or directory Feb 07 19:12:35 /dev/mmcblk1: No such file or directory Feb 07 19:12:35 /dev/mmcblk1: No such file or directory Feb 07 19:12:39 oups Feb 07 19:13:43 cosmos: do you have sdcard reader in your pc? You could do the partitioning using gparted then Feb 07 19:13:49 again, that's an l Feb 07 19:13:50 not a 1 Feb 07 19:13:57 oh wait Feb 07 19:14:00 cosmos, you really need to THINK about the device naming!! Feb 07 19:14:20 needs to think about that tab key Feb 07 19:14:25 MMC type, block device number 0, partition 1 : /dev/mmcblk0p1 Feb 07 19:15:01 mmcblk0 mmcblk0p1 mmcblk0p2 mmcblk0p3 Feb 07 19:15:11 mmcblk0 = the card itself, raw block device Feb 07 19:15:20 mmcblk0p1 = partition 1 on that device Feb 07 19:15:27 p2 = partition 2 Feb 07 19:15:28 etc... Feb 07 19:20:42 ok that's done Feb 07 19:21:25 wait a minute...qtmoko needs an ext3 partition not an ext2 one? Feb 07 19:21:40 ext2 is fine Feb 07 19:22:01 mtd's dont need journaling like spinning drives do Feb 07 19:22:48 ok Feb 07 19:23:56 so now I have my /boot partition (fat16), swap in the middle (500M) and the remaining space for the ext2 Feb 07 19:33:33 ndnihil: i think data loss doesn't depend much on spinning, to me it seems that using a journalling FS is beneficial for removable flash-based storage as well. Feb 07 19:34:22 yeah, but devices with moving parts fail far more often than those without Feb 07 19:34:56 and there is a performance hit on an already slow device Feb 07 19:41:07 I suppose that the "swap" partition is flashed more oten than the others isn't it? Feb 07 19:41:30 it has more frequent reads/writes yes Feb 07 19:42:07 so it's mabe better to place it at the end finally... Feb 07 19:42:13 *maybe Feb 07 19:42:36 doesnt matter on a memory based block device Feb 07 19:43:50 wouldn't a journal affect a flash device in a bad way wrt to long term usability? Feb 07 19:44:35 anything that increases reads/writes will shorten its lifespan Feb 07 19:44:47 I thought it was only writes Feb 07 19:45:01 could be Feb 07 19:45:10 me too Feb 07 19:45:24 been a while since I read up on it Feb 07 19:45:30 and from reading around(if I remember) operations are atomic on the flash devices and a journal doesn't really help much Feb 07 19:47:29 well wikipedia mentions that ext2 gets used on flash devices due to lack of a journal Feb 07 19:49:05 depending on what "operations" and "flash device" specifically mean. Feb 07 19:51:04 Plenty of consumer flash-memory devices have done wear-levelling internally for several years at this point, Feb 07 19:53:30 and you basically get enough write-cycles overall that you don't need to worry about it; Feb 07 20:01:40 people get way too caught-up in this `any writes you do to flash-memory decreases its lifespan', Feb 07 20:02:08 same for neurons Feb 07 20:03:08 which is technically *true*, but it's a *vacuous* truth until you have actual numbers to compare. Feb 07 20:03:44 Like, it's technically true that 9 years and 300 days is less than 10 years. Feb 07 20:04:04 And it's technically true that 10 years is less than 100 years. Feb 07 20:04:34 Would it really matter if you reduced the lifespan of your flash-memory from 100 to 10 years, though? ;) Feb 07 20:23:11 ok what are the next steps? Feb 07 20:24:22 cd into /dev/mmcblk0? Feb 07 20:25:00 untar the rootfs into part 3 (for me) and uImage on part 1? Feb 07 20:26:36 I follow the instructions here: Feb 07 20:26:39 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_FreeRunner Feb 07 20:27:33 exept for those ones, because I do not understand at all what I'm doing: Feb 07 20:28:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image#Mounting_the_JFFS2_image_on_a_loop_back_device_.28Block_Memory_MTD_Emulation.29 Feb 07 20:30:13 where to untar qtmoko-debian-v19.tar.gz? Feb 07 20:32:56 on /media/mmcblk0p3? Feb 07 20:34:56 and uImage-v19-nodebug.bin on /media/card/boot? Feb 07 20:37:52 oups, it was there...: Feb 07 20:37:53 http://www.hackable1.org/wiki/Installation Feb 07 21:00:37 cannot untar qtmoko-debian-v19.tar.gz Feb 07 21:03:04 ...Cannot mknod: operation not permitted Feb 07 21:09:57 You need to be root, to do that. Feb 07 21:10:46 Which is, of course, dangerous :) Feb 07 22:32:18 anyone know if opkg update is safe on shr-u now? Feb 07 22:42:20 badcloud: wrt need for swap? Feb 07 23:35:32 DocScrutinizer: wrt meaning? Feb 07 23:35:44 in the end I just flashed a newer image Feb 07 23:35:45 btw Feb 07 23:35:52 ~wtf wrt Feb 07 23:35:54 WRT: with respect to Feb 07 23:36:33 ok, Doc. still don't understand what you were asking Feb 07 23:36:40 hi, btw Feb 07 23:37:14 you asked "is it safe now to opkg upgrade?" IIRC yesterday you said opkg borked for you Feb 07 23:37:23 hihi Feb 07 23:37:46 guess my memory is shoddy Feb 07 23:37:52 but last time it worked ok Feb 07 23:38:10 prolly my memory then Feb 08 00:37:08 no idea how to send files to fr Feb 08 00:37:17 \trough usb Feb 08 00:38:05 why the fr cannot be detected like an external hd, or a usb key? Feb 08 00:38:42 I can browse the folders on the fr from pc but not to send files! Feb 08 00:47:16 cosmos, you can use ssh Feb 08 00:47:23 samba, nfs, ftp Feb 08 00:48:10 fr can be detected as external hd but its different option Feb 08 00:53:29 cosmos: enter sftp://root@192.168.0.202 to Konqueror (or other filemanager of your choice). Feb 08 00:54:39 mass storage mode is rather hard to implement for non-vfat filesystems, and still then we need to umount the partition we want to expose to USB for mass-storage Feb 08 00:54:55 ok could you give me a simple terminal command for install qtmoko-v19-tar.gz on my fresh formatted uSD card? Feb 08 00:55:19 I've tryied several ways but no success Feb 08 00:55:22 unmount or mount ro Feb 08 00:56:06 umount what mount what Feb 08 00:56:19 nvm Feb 08 00:56:30 sorry - that wasn't to you Feb 08 00:59:18 insert card to PC cardreader, mount ext*-partiton. extract qtmoko-v19-tar.gz to that partition. I'd guess that's about all Feb 08 00:59:32 ok I get it with nautilus: Feb 08 00:59:55 nautilus sftp://root@192.168.0.202 on a root tewrminal Feb 08 01:01:06 I've already extracted (on root mode) qtmoko-v19-tar.gz....on my home folder Feb 08 01:01:28 now I have to manually copy all the folders on the uSD Feb 08 01:02:41 ...or to copy the .tar file on the fr and to extract it inside Feb 08 01:04:15 I am looking for a picture of this openmoko+beagleboard+angstroem Feb 08 01:04:27 I saw in the presentation of openmoko today. Feb 08 01:14:17 cd /media/mmcblk0p3, and then, tar xzmof /media/mmcblk0p3/qtmoko-debian-v19..tar.gz (present in ~/media/mmcblk0p3), doesn't seems to work Feb 08 01:22:13 I've though formatting and preparing well my uSD card Feb 08 01:22:50 .... Feb 08 01:22:55 but not Feb 08 01:26:40 I ve mess up the links between the fr and the uSD card Feb 08 01:27:00 Very bad tutorials I've found on the net Feb 08 01:27:07 ...pffff Feb 08 01:28:07 only the /boot parition (15.23MB) is detected on the FR Feb 08 01:28:28 not the mmcblk0p3 paertition Feb 08 01:29:44 I follow the instructions there: Feb 08 01:29:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_FreeRunner Feb 08 01:30:39 this tutorial says: Feb 08 01:31:16 "mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card Feb 08 01:31:16 mkdir /media/card/boot Feb 08 01:31:16 mkdir /media/mmcblk0p2 Feb 08 01:31:16 mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /media/mmcblk0p2" Feb 08 01:31:40 but Feb 08 01:32:37 I confirm that only the boot partition on /media/card/boot is detected by the FR Feb 08 01:33:24 so what is the sense of that messy /media/mmcblk0pX folder? Feb 08 01:35:13 now I have to reflas entirely my FR because my last unsuccessfull untaring operation tooks all the space on the FR, and no way to locate these new files on. Feb 08 01:35:22 ... Feb 08 01:36:13 If somebody could make a workable, simple and step by step tutorial for a noob like me that could be great Feb 08 01:38:57 more I read on forums and official documentaions about FR and usb connections, uSD card install,etc, and more i have the impression that no one is able to give a complete solution for a basic installation on both the FR and the uSD card Feb 08 01:46:18 ok I can flash a distribution, for example qtmoko on the FR Feb 08 01:46:51 but installing on uSD is a mess for me Feb 08 01:48:23 and even if I can correctly, I suppose partition the uSD card, I don't find some reliable information to install someting on it Feb 08 01:50:13 ok Feb 08 01:50:29 I start again from 0 Feb 08 02:52:12 yea the docs need more explaining for mee to Feb 08 02:52:29 but im just a lowly user **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 08 02:59:57 2010