**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 03 02:59:57 2010 Apr 03 05:39:44 brolin_empey: pong Apr 03 06:04:58 PaulFertser: Can you help me troubleshoot my RNDIS problem with Wireshark? Apr 03 06:40:59 brolin_empey: i can try Apr 03 06:43:49 This test message is sent via my WLAN at home. Apr 03 06:44:22 brolin_empey1: ok. Apr 03 06:44:59 brolin_empey1: do you mean wpa_supplicant started to work for you? Apr 03 06:45:13 I know it is very foolish, but I never even verified if Win7 can connect to my WLAN before trying to get QtMoko to connect to it. (fail) Apr 03 06:45:37 PaulFertser: No, I am using Pidgin on Win7. Apr 03 06:46:02 I see. Apr 03 06:46:51 brolin_empey1: so i guess you should start ping on FR (connected via rndis) and dump traffic on your win7 host to see what goes through the interfaces. Apr 03 06:47:26 * brolin_empey1 had to enable SSID broadcast, which I usually avoid because I dislike advertising my WLAN, because Win7 did not see any signal when the SSID broadcast was disabled. (fail) Apr 03 06:48:26 Can the FreeRunner even connect to WLANs which do not broadcast their SSID? Apr 03 06:48:36 Security experts say that "hidden ssid" is generally useless except for very specific cases. Apr 03 06:48:51 I have no idea, i've never tried it with hidden ssid. Apr 03 06:49:09 But i really recommend to use wpa_supplicant directly for any wlan troubleshooting. Apr 03 06:50:15 PaulFertser: That does not surprise me because even the iPhone OS on my colleague's iPhone listed our WLAN at work, which does not broadcast its SSID, as a hidden network. Apr 03 06:51:46 PaulFertser: I mean even before my colleague entered our WLAN's SSID. Apr 03 06:51:54 Curious Apr 03 06:54:07 * brolin_empey1 loves oldskool chiptunes. :) Apr 03 06:55:50 BRB, need to revert to a real (wired) LAN. ;) Apr 03 07:01:20 Win7 still says I am connected to my WLAN even after disconnecting from the WLAN, physically reconnecting the Ethernet cable, then pressing my laptop's hotkey to disable the WLAN hardware interface. (fail) Apr 03 07:10:39 PaulFertser: wpa_supplicant appears to work on QtMoko, but "udhcpc eth0" never gets a DHCP lease. Apr 03 07:12:34 PaulFertser: I suppose I could try dhclient if my QtMoko had an Internet connection to install it, but udhcpc should work too, right? We use udhcpc for wired Ethernet LANs on our Medallion ARM Linux computers at work. Apr 03 07:16:05 brolin_empey: try maxperf trick please if you want better chances of working wlan. Apr 03 07:20:45 * brolin_empey still needs a better mod player for Windows than Mikamp. I am curious to try GLX.EXE (Galaxy Music Player)'s PC speaker output in DOSBox. It is surprising how good some mods sound on the PC speaker (a real speaker, with a paper cone). :) Apr 03 07:25:54 * brolin_empey wanted to use TRAN.EXE to make FreeDOS on his bootable USB flash drive say "Welcome to FreeDOS" at the end of my AUTOEXEC.BAT, but FreeDOS hangs in the loader on brolin-V13 (my laptop); optiplex960 (my newest tower) appears to refuse to boot FreeDOS from my USB flash drive at all, even though it successfully boots FreeDOS from a floppy diskette (yes, I still use those sometimes.). :( Apr 03 07:27:12 * amarsh04 was surprised to see one person at a local library using a usb floppy drive provided by the library to save her work Apr 03 07:28:46 * brolin_empey wonders if TRAN.EXE still works on Windows 7 (32-bit). Thanks to WDDM on Windows Vista, I can no longer run Alley Cat with video on Windows Vista. I have not yet tried any software that old on Windows 7. Apr 03 07:34:39 amarsh04: Using floppy disk drives on public PCs is risky because the drive can make the disk unreadable if the drive is misaligned (or maybe dirty too?). I lost some projects in high school because of the floppy disk drive in one of my school's PCs. I should have used a USB flash drive, but that was a hassle because my school was still using Lose98 Second Failure which does not include a USB mass storage driver. Apr 03 07:36:17 yes, I agree... even when booting from my w95osr2 partition I can read usb drives though - it's a manual update to add support for usb drives Apr 03 07:37:01 amarsh04: from Nathan Lineback? Apr 03 07:37:41 forget what I added to provide support for usb drives on w95osr2 Apr 03 07:38:37 the last seamonkey that worked on w95osr2 was released about september 2009... definitely trailing edge legacy Apr 03 07:38:39 amarsh04: I know there are USB Mass Storage drivers available for Lose98, but the ones provided by USB flash driver vendors are usually not generic: they work only with that vendor's drives. Apr 03 07:38:49 ah ok Apr 03 07:44:54 amarsh04: Windows (not Windows NT) can be locked up simply by executing the CLI instruction in an infinite loop: I used to have the DEBUG sequence to assemble and write 0xFAEBFE to a .COM file memorised so I could lock up public Windows PCs. :) Apr 03 07:45:22 hehe Apr 03 07:49:02 There is a bug in Windows Explorer on Win95 without IE4 or higher which allows the Start button to be closed. That was always fun to do in libraries, then watch the next person who walks up to the PC try to use it. :) Apr 03 07:51:54 I think I actually wrote a C program using the Windows API to hide and show the Start button and other parts of the taskbar, which would work for versions of Windows where the close-Start-menu bug is fixed, but then I need permission to execute programs from removable media. Apr 03 07:53:26 Infinite alert loops are fun in Web browsers too: javascript:while(1){alert("pwned!!1");} Apr 03 07:54:44 Fork bombs should be possible too by e.g., opening new windows/tabs in an infinite loop. Apr 03 07:55:45 fork bomb in a shell script: Apr 03 07:55:54 :s Apr 03 07:55:57 start %0 Apr 03 07:55:59 goto s Apr 03 07:57:39 Wonka: that is a batch file, not a (*nix) shell script. ;) Apr 03 07:58:10 well, the Win/DOS equivalent ;) Apr 03 08:01:52 Wonka: "net send" in an infinite loop was fun for spamming people before Microsoft disabled the Messenger service on Windows by default. :( Apr 03 08:08:13 PaulFertser: I already used Wireshark on Win7 to monitor the traffic to/from my FR, including while running ping on the FR, but I could not find anything which looked incorrect to me. Apr 03 08:12:17 My brain did not refresh its DRAM fast enough because I forgot what I was doing again. :( Apr 03 08:14:36 Oh right, I was searching for the maxperf trick to see if I can get WLAN working on QtMoko. Apr 03 08:34:50 PaulFertser: ping. Apr 03 08:36:07 PaulFertser: My QtMoko lacks wmiconfig so I cannot try your maxperf trick. :( Apr 03 08:36:55 * brolin_empey should probably go to bed soon to avoid borking his sleep cycle Yet Again. (fail) Apr 03 08:41:02 Hmm, /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rfc1337 ? :) Apr 03 10:11:13 Is SHR safe to be upgraded using opkg upgrade? Apr 03 10:12:24 hm... speaking of which... how can i boot the fr if i think i've OOD'd my flash? will i have to install debian on usd and boot that? Apr 03 10:13:19 brolin_empey: sorry, felt asleep in the middle of the day Apr 03 10:13:43 Also, are there C++ binding to the e17 libs? Apr 03 10:15:09 brolin_empey: just download wmiconfig binary from anywhere Apr 03 10:15:18 brolin_empey: and ask radekp to include it in the distro. Apr 03 10:15:30 brolin_empey: but you can use the ready-made binary regardless, for the time being. Apr 03 10:29:57 PaulFertser: It now seems very foolish, but I have never tried using a different subnet for my FR than for the rest of my LAN. (epic fail) Apr 03 10:30:19 brolin_empey: for bridging it sounds ok though. Apr 03 10:30:34 brolin_empey: if win7 bridge is the same as "normal" bridge. Apr 03 11:43:49 Any suggestions on how to prevent finger-scrolling (in SHR) to trigger application startup? Apr 03 11:46:47 PaulFertser: I finally solved my problem: ARP on QtMoko could not resolve my LAN's Internet gateway's IP address (192.168.0.2) to a MAC address, which is what caused the "Destination Host Unreachable" errors when pinging. I should have checked ARP days ago because I learned about it years ago, but I think this is one of, if not the, first time(s) I have needed to manually add an ARP entry. Oh well, lessons learned from first-hand Apr 03 11:49:12 azaghal: Why are you using SHR instead of QtMoko? ;) Apr 03 11:49:31 brolin_empey: Better integration with X apps. Apr 03 11:49:57 QtMoko is nice, though. Feels a bit faster, although SHR has progressed very well since the last time I used it. Apr 03 11:50:02 (with the exception of slow scrolling) Apr 03 11:52:41 brolin_empey: but why arp didn't pass through the bridge? Apr 03 11:52:50 brolin_empey: probably that's something special about win7 bridges? Apr 03 11:54:12 brolin_empey: btw, i guess wiresharking could have shown you that arp problem. Apr 03 12:47:55 PaulFertser: I did use Wireshark, but I never noticed ARP was not working. I have learned an important lesson, though, even if it literally took days, which only means I will be more likely to remember to always check ARP. :) Apr 03 12:48:49 brolin_empey: win Apr 03 12:50:34 PaulFertser: %WINDIR%\WIN.COM ? I hope not! ;) Apr 03 12:52:21 * brolin_empey feels so pleased and accomplished to have finally solved his problem. :) Apr 03 12:53:29 brolin_empey: i remember a funny program called runme.com that's advertised as some kind of quiz. It had only "lea dx, $stupid_msg; mov ax, 9; int 21h; jmp $" (print string, dead loop) or something like that in the beginning, and then plenty of explanation in plain text discussing what it means if you first disassembled it before running. Apr 03 12:54:49 * brolin_empey used to have similar feelings when he finally got one of his own programs working after struggling for hours or even days. Apr 03 12:58:08 PaulFertser: dead loop = infinite loop? Apr 03 12:59:13 dFence: brolin_empey yeah Apr 03 12:59:49 PaulFertser: dFence? Apr 03 13:02:21 brolin_empey: sorry, typo from another chan Apr 03 13:03:31 brolin_empey: and yes, it hanged any win9x box, just as you outlined :) Apr 03 13:38:41 http://xkcd.com/unixkcd/ :D I missed this on 2010-04-01 because I have not visited xkcd for weeks. Apr 03 13:40:08 I missed emacs-like keybindings there Apr 03 13:43:26 PaulFertser: Did you notice GRUB 2 (at least on Ubuntu 9.10) uses emacs-like keybindings instead of the vi-style keybindings used by GRUB Legacy? Apr 03 13:50:39 PaulFertser: I executed "sudo rm -rf /", now I cannot run any commands, not even "help". :) Apr 03 13:51:08 * Kamping_Kaiser whips out a trout Apr 03 13:52:03 Kamping_Kaiser: Your trouser trout? Or Khaled's? ;) Apr 03 13:52:54 brolin_empey: its a PG13 channel ;) Apr 03 13:53:03 Writing of trout-slapping, is Pidgin the new mIRC? :) Apr 03 13:53:37 brolin_empey: LOL Apr 03 13:54:24 Kamping_Kaiser: Shouldn't that be PC-13, like Wolf3D? :) Apr 03 13:55:10 * brolin_empey Gets Psyched! Apr 03 13:56:56 I mean: Get(s) Psyched. C:\> EDIT CONFIG.SYS; SET BUGS=OFF; SET TYPOS=OFF Apr 03 13:57:40 * brolin_empey Get(s) Psyched. Apr 03 13:57:54 get: command not found Apr 03 13:57:55 :( Apr 03 14:00:24 Kamping_Kaiser: Try wget. :) Apr 03 14:00:59 :) Apr 03 14:02:24 * brolin_empey tried "wget http://www.microsoft.com/", expecting a joke response, but actually opened Microsoft's Web site! :) Apr 03 14:03:05 be glad you didn't -c -m it ;D Apr 03 14:04:39 Kamping_Kaiser: -c for continue partial download and -m for mirror? Apr 03 14:04:55 brolin_empey: yup Apr 03 14:05:36 I mean "(c)ontinue partial download" and "(m)irror". Apr 03 14:34:25 Kamping_Kaiser: "irc" works. :) Apr 03 14:35:15 :) Apr 03 14:39:43 rather have a pengy Apr 03 15:57:46 hello everyone :) Apr 03 15:58:39 Has there been just as much reporting of the infamous 'buzz' issue lately? Or is this much less of an issue now?... Apr 03 15:59:16 I was reading through the wiki, and the buzz page seems to not have much action lately: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_or_not Apr 03 15:59:35 swoody: depends on which hardware you have Apr 03 16:00:03 more specifically, I'm interested in knowing about how the A6 would do on a 1900 Mhz network in the USA (T-mobile) Apr 03 16:01:02 d1b: well I know the newer A7 units have the fix, but has the A6 issue still been prevelant as of late? Apr 03 16:02:10 no idea Apr 03 16:02:15 i still have an a5 Apr 03 16:03:19 there's only one report of a 1900 network on that wiki page, but it's listed as 850/1900, so it could be possible that the user was on 850 when the buzz was occuring? Apr 03 16:03:45 has this issue been attributed to certain network frequencies, or is it strictly a hardware issue? Apr 03 16:03:51 no idea im on gsm 1900 iirc Apr 03 16:04:19 d1b: and do you have any buzz? Or did the A5 not have this issue? Apr 03 16:04:42 well there is something audio quality was always subpar but i don't think i had real bug Apr 03 16:04:46 buzz* Apr 03 16:04:52 i now use an android g1 htc phone as a phone tho Apr 03 16:05:09 ah, ok. Apr 03 16:05:35 i wanted a phone that worked as a phone Apr 03 16:05:37 I'd really love to pull the trigger on the A6, but this has gotten me thinking twice :/ Apr 03 16:05:46 oh? Apr 03 16:05:57 if i was you i would go for the a7 maybe Apr 03 16:06:00 d1b: what wasn't working for you with the A5? Just the quality of the calls? Apr 03 16:06:04 it really depends on the use case Apr 03 16:06:11 like shr was better. Apr 03 16:06:24 try talking to some one else i guess. like in the end i did like my moko Apr 03 16:07:55 swoody: funny thing: there're reports A7 are sometimes defective too Apr 03 16:08:03 swoody: and require a bit of resoldering Apr 03 16:08:29 PaulFertser: well that's not good to hear, lol Apr 03 16:08:35 swoody: and anyway, why not just do the buzzfix?! Apr 03 16:08:38 and I take it, this is less common than the A6? Apr 03 16:08:45 I think i'm not the only one sick of all this talk Apr 03 16:08:51 lol, /me isn't too handy with a soldering iron ;) Apr 03 16:09:14 swoody: all unfixed A6 might have buzz, it doesn't depend on the unit, it depends on operating conditions. Apr 03 16:09:34 swoody: and some A7s are apparently not soldered right at the factory. There's at least one definitive report. Apr 03 16:10:26 you would think an issue like this would be top-priority for OpenMoko :/ Apr 03 16:10:30 swoody: i'd recommend: just buy an A6 (they're cheap nowdays) and you start getting complains, perform the buzzfix at your uni or at work. Apr 03 16:10:36 I mean not knowing if/when it'll pop up on you Apr 03 16:11:09 Heh, some words are missing in my sentences, gotta do some bugfixing :) Apr 03 16:11:14 PaulFertser: that was my idea, too. But my current phone is now borked, and I would need to have a working phone ASAP Apr 03 16:12:05 swoody: well... I'd say FR is a cool device but if you need something reliable you can count on every day, better get nokia 1100 or the like. I guess you can get that even for free. Apr 03 16:12:30 swoody: FR is cool for developers and tinkerers. It's still not "ready" for "general public". Apr 03 16:13:05 well, I'm a bit of a tinkerer, but it's mostly with software and OS'es, not soldering :/ Apr 03 16:13:22 I have no problem working through buggy software :) Apr 03 16:13:26 swoody: is it really that hard to find someone who can solder nearby? Apr 03 16:13:48 swoody: because buzzfix is not really involving and doesn't require any special equipment or skills, just a bit of experience. Apr 03 16:14:26 well, I can definitely look into it. I'm sure I can find someone, I just don't know anybody offhand that would be able to do it Apr 03 16:14:56 but alas, I have to run for a bit. Will be back on later :) Apr 03 16:14:58 swoody: i'd say that steady hand and not that big soldering iron is enough. Apr 03 16:15:19 hmmm... maybe this will be a good chance for me to give it a try even ;) Apr 03 16:15:30 swoody: and if you can get some defective video card or something for practice, that'd be of help to the soldering guy too. Apr 03 16:15:37 I'm mechanically apt, but just haven't put in any time with an iron Apr 03 16:16:00 Then practice on something already broken with small parts first. Apr 03 16:16:51 swoody: anyway, welcome to the club and good luck with your adventures ;) Apr 03 16:23:00 thanks PaulFertser :) Apr 03 16:23:08 will talk to you all later, take care Apr 03 17:04:37 hi Apr 03 18:44:32 ha ha very funny, i see the april fools made it into shr-t Apr 03 18:50:27 http://www.timwise.co.uk/om/april.png Apr 03 18:54:04 huehue Apr 03 18:54:53 i expect a few people will ask me if i've given up on linux next time i see them Apr 03 18:55:23 hehehe Apr 03 18:55:51 You can tell them, that You managed to run windows mobile under wine :) Apr 03 19:00:14 lol, shortly before shooting it Apr 03 19:00:36 hehe Apr 03 20:04:42 what qtmoko to try? v18 which is newer or v19 which has bigger version number? :> Apr 03 20:06:47 v18 is with newer 2.6.32 kernel, but with few more bugs Apr 03 20:09:19 so better try v19? Apr 03 20:29:53 any news on the volume slider issue for shr-t? http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-user/2010-April/004401.html Apr 03 20:30:18 i don't seem to have the fix yet Apr 03 23:03:45 Can I interest anyone (.eu) in a nice ~100-150 EUR OMAP3 hackable phone [/looking for kernel monkeys]? Apr 03 23:21:25 I don't do much kernel, but I'm interested in such a device Apr 03 23:39:04 ndnihil: The Samsung H1 ships with a LiMo-based OS in quite a few European countries (Vodafone branded). Because the software side of things isn't much of a hit, it's available cheap on $localCraigslist. Apr 03 23:41:02 The hardware however, is really nice. I'm currently working on porting as much stuff as I can over to a decent kernel, but am looking for a helping hand. Some guys (two or so) familiar with OpenMoko wanted to help out, but they're rather busy, which pretty much leaves me (not specifically targeting OpenMoko) Apr 03 23:43:32 I'm sure there's still plenty of people around interesed, I just don't know how to find 'em ;) Apr 03 23:44:56 ius: try ask also on #openmoko-cdevel or mailing lists Apr 03 23:46:14 Sounds like a plan Apr 04 01:23:06 window new hide next **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 04 02:59:58 2010