**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 06 02:59:56 2010 May 06 04:08:35 alarm-clock in Hackable:1 require up to 20MB :( May 06 06:20:01 naquan: wtf? May 06 06:48:04 blindcoder: I'm just expecting its size 's smaller, it's a small utility anyway. May 06 06:50:09 naquan: same here, that's why it suprises me May 06 06:50:23 naquan: is that 20 MB filesystem or memory-when-running? May 06 06:54:21 blindcoder: It's a sum cost of filesystem that apt-get gave me, other apps like xpdf and mplayer got similar amount of disk space 10~20MB :( May 06 06:55:29 it's app+needed libs only for it? May 06 06:55:49 like poppler for xpdf if there is no other app installed using poppler too? May 06 07:00:47 JaMa: but the alarm-clock shouldn't cost that much disk space :( May 06 07:02:52 well I don't know alarm-clock and don't use H:1, but if that count size as I said (no idea), and if it's written ie in different UI lib than rest of system, then it's sort of expected.. May 06 07:10:52 JaMa: is there some control of dependencies in other distributions (like SHR) in order to keep their size small? May 06 07:13:48 I don't understand, in SHR and all OE based distributions control runtime dependencies based on what is specified in recipe and what's linked to resulting binaries, so you cannot make it smaller ie in case of different UI May 06 07:15:09 the best approach is to use consistent UI lib across whole image (sharing installed .so) and use fine grained libs (to install only ie qt-core+qt-gui for app which don't care about qt-webkit) May 06 11:58:56 hmm was mich ein wenig nervt am shr (hab gestern auf unstable added) is einfach der fakt das es kleine finger vorraussetzt May 06 11:59:13 added = updated... May 06 11:59:27 oh sorry... man i am really not awake yet :D May 06 11:59:34 wanted to send to the -de channel May 06 14:06:46 hello openmoko hackers May 06 14:07:03 anyone here that are experienced in changing USB descriptors in uboot source code? May 06 15:15:11 PaulFertser, please help, debian on free runner not registering to gsm network, here is frameworkd.log http://pastebin.com/B1yNnXpP May 06 15:38:00 sola: are you sure you're not releasing the gsm resource too early? May 06 15:40:44 PaulFertser, how to check whether we are releasing gsm resource early? May 06 15:40:55 sola: what are you using to request it? May 06 15:41:57 PaulFertser, i am running zhone on lxde/illume window manager, internally dunno what is happening May 06 15:43:59 sola: if you run zhone from the terminal, you'll get some output, probably there're hints there. May 06 15:45:16 PaulFertser, here is zhone log..http://pastebin.com/B5NrmNdd May 06 15:49:18 sola: can you enable more debug for the frameworkd? Specifically, ousaged debug? May 06 15:51:29 PaulFertser, in /etc/frameworkd.conf, disable=0 for ousaged right? May 06 15:51:48 sola: aha, so you're using fsousaged? May 06 15:52:32 sola: i mean what are you using, ousaged or fsousaged? May 06 15:53:07 PaulFertser, fsousaged...found from ps output May 06 15:54:29 sola: ok, so do you have something interesting in its log? May 06 15:54:49 sola: if not, try to enable debug in /etc/freesmartphone/fsousaged.conf and restart fsousaged. May 06 15:55:16 sola: probably you might also want to use this utility to check what's going on: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/461 May 06 15:55:49 PaulFertser, ok, May 06 15:56:42 PaulFertser, found a message "Resource GSM can't be enabled: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.. Trying to disable instead May 06 15:56:42 " May 06 15:59:24 sola: hm, so that looks like ogsmd was too slow for fsousaged... May 06 16:00:12 PaulFertser, switching to ousaged can be a solution, or to fix ogsmd? May 06 16:01:53 sola: yes, ousaged should work. But probably it's debug for ogsmd that makes it that slow? May 06 16:03:29 PaulFertser, will try to disable ogsmd debug and try May 06 16:09:04 PaulFertser, how can i switch to ousaged, some change in any conf file? May 06 16:09:45 sola: disable dbus activation for fsousaged and disable=0 in /etc/frameworkd.conf May 06 16:10:02 PaulFertser, ok May 06 16:11:10 JaMa: thanks for the mdbus2 advice. what I meant is that issuing mdbus2 commands is not within my abilities May 06 16:11:28 (we talked yesterday) May 06 16:16:21 Upon request NoMachine will deliver all the relative third-party source May 06 16:16:22 code, consistent with the licensing terms of the original software, and May 06 16:16:22 documentation at the cost of the postage charges incurred. May 06 16:16:42 whoops.. paste error May 06 18:36:54 Quick question, how do I right click without plugging in a USB mouse? May 06 18:37:30 I've got a bluetooth keyboard and an old version of SHR. May 06 18:37:44 So, I've tried alt-click but itr doesn't seem to work. May 06 18:41:28 hackerb9: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR_User_Manual#Illume_desktop May 06 18:43:12 hackerb9: http://www.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/1064 May 06 18:47:20 The copy/paste table isn't cool :/ May 06 18:48:49 Thanks, Paul. May 06 18:49:17 My SHR is too old and doesn't have the L button, but that xinput command should do the trick, as soon as I find the pkg for it. May 06 18:51:17 hackerb9: if you already use xorg an alternative would be to remap keys with xmodmap. Let me dig out the trick i used. May 06 18:51:57 hackerb9: http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg34294.html May 06 18:55:00 I tried xmodmap first and was surprised it didn't work. May 06 18:55:31 hackerb9: probably your SHR is so old that it uses xglamo. May 06 18:58:16 Yeah, it's using xglamo. May 06 19:00:01 Installed xinput; fails to work. No touchscreen device and telling it to use "pointer" throws X BadDevice errors. May 06 19:01:14 Is the new xserver faster than xglamo? May 06 19:01:15 hackerb9: heh, time to update? May 06 19:01:40 Yeah, I tried upgrading recently (April 1st). The "testing" version of SHR was unusable as a phone. May 06 19:01:43 hackerb9: nobody's using xglamo, i guess there's a reason for that :) May 06 19:03:48 Do you have any recommendations for what would be good version of SHR (or any distribution) to upgrade to to use as a phone? May 06 19:04:13 I've been meaning to try Debian, but the install process failed for me. May 06 19:05:46 hackerb9: i used debian for more than 1.5 years as my only phone... And currently i'm running self-compiled bleeding edge FSO on debian with my emacs UI. May 06 19:06:00 That sounds perfect. May 06 19:06:21 Are there instructions for doing that on the wiki? May 06 19:09:21 Google is giving me no joy for "emacs UI". May 06 19:10:00 hackerb9: hm, i guess it's right the time i publish my steps. Are you interested? My code is here: http://wiki.github.com/paulfertser/fso-el/ May 06 19:10:27 hackerb9: i just finished basic support for everything i wanted today and was going to write an e-mail to the community ML. May 06 19:11:39 (everything i wanted to do before the first "public" release) May 06 19:12:38 I'm totally interested. May 06 19:13:47 fso.el looks great. May 06 19:13:47 hackerb9: i have no instructions for installing debian itself, as i did it semi-manually being guided by install.sh (it didn't support Qi at the time, and i wanted Qi). But i am going to publish a tarball allowing for easy HEAD following for FSO components. May 06 19:15:07 hackerb9: btw, it's my first experience with "FP" (yes, i know elisp is not a good example) and elisp in particular, so i'm very open to any feedback code-wise (and of course UI-wise too). May 06 19:15:18 I guess I'll just give the Debian install another go. I think the script failed because I was setting environment variables so it wouldn't wipe out the distributions I already had on the SD card. May 06 19:15:26 hackerb9, you may try qtmoko that is build on top of debian. It is really fast and the only distribution I can use as my daily phone May 06 19:16:03 Qtmoko is debian? I had no idea. May 06 19:16:27 yes, it is May 06 19:16:53 Nifty, sounds like with Qtmoko + Ferster's emacs script I'll be in heaven. May 06 19:17:28 Does QtMoko use the standard apt repositories? May 06 19:17:40 yes May 06 19:17:53 hackerb9: no, my UI is only for FSO, the APIs are totally different. May 06 19:17:57 Sorry May 06 19:17:59 but it uses framebuffer I think May 06 19:18:11 and not fso May 06 19:18:28 Oh, I had assumed I'd be able to apt-get install FSO. May 06 19:19:19 hackerb9, there's a hack to use X applications but that's not the primary applications of this distribution May 06 19:19:32 hackerb9: if you want FSO, just use plain debian. May 06 19:19:41 But does FSO require X? May 06 19:19:59 hackerb9: and you can use the method of native compilation + distcc which allows me to upgrade to the HEAD of fsogsmd in less than 30 minutes. May 06 19:20:00 I had thought of FSO as a DBUS api. May 06 19:20:07 hackerb9, I don't think so May 06 19:20:52 hackerb9, but you'll need some way to use the screen May 06 19:21:10 I don't know distcc; is that what you're writing the howto on today? May 06 19:21:10 hackerb9, framebuffer or X May 06 19:21:31 I see. So QtMoko only runs Qt apps? May 06 19:21:41 hackerb9: FSO is middleware exposed over dbus, yes. It doesn't need X. May 06 19:22:11 hackerb9, If you wan't debian and fso, qtmoko is no need May 06 19:23:02 hackerb9: distcc is trivial: you do ``export CC="distcc arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'' on your device before "./configure", install arm cross-compiler on your host, add your host to ~/.distcc/..something.. , start distccd --allow on host. That's it, a big speedup for the native compilation. May 06 19:24:17 Ah, nice. Can distcc send commands over SSH or will I have to change the IP in the config file all the time? (Dynamic IP) May 06 19:24:59 PaulFertser, that's something I didn't know, is all that in a wiki or is it just simple distcc use and any tutorial would give that process ? May 06 19:25:08 dvermd, If QtMoko is so easy to install, I might just try it first anyway since plain Debian gave me guff. May 06 19:25:49 hackerb9: i think distcc is using direct connection to the host and port you specify. You can use SSH's port forwarding feature and configure distcc to use localhost:1234 i guess. May 06 19:26:03 dvermd: i think the latter May 06 19:26:37 Yeah, portforwarding should be easy to automate. May 06 19:27:00 Although, I suppose I could automate scp'ing the config file. May 06 19:27:31 Damn easy as well if you use ssh keys. May 06 19:28:13 hackerb9: are you using Debian on your host right atm? Can you check if debian's emacs23 build supports D-bus? May 06 19:28:16 Please :) May 06 19:28:44 My host? I'm logged in on my freerunner running SHR> May 06 19:28:49 hackerb9: your PC May 06 19:28:57 I'm nowhere near a PC. May 06 19:29:06 Sorry. May 06 19:29:08 np :) May 06 19:43:57 mickey|sports: hey :) So do you probably have any suggestion what else should i rebuild with your latest vala tarball? May 06 20:50:54 Hi there. I'm using SHR-t and, from time to time, the keyboard doesn't send the keys being pressed. Any hint about it?, please **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 07 02:59:56 2010