**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 14 02:59:56 2010 May 14 10:06:50 hi May 14 10:44:50 djp_: I solved the problem.... May 14 10:45:54 djp_: It was the bootloader...I've installed u-boot 1.3.1 back and now suspend works again... May 14 11:24:38 hi May 14 11:28:17 leosaeba: ah, good to read. :D i think your issue was different to mine. shr-unstable (latest version) appears to have a suspend bug. i've turned auto suspend off for now. May 14 15:26:53 anyone know how you move to an open app using shr-illume2? it doesn't appear tapping on the top shelf presents you with left and right arrows for moving between open apps... is this a current bug? May 14 15:27:42 yes, there seems to be a problem to start the softkey switcher May 14 15:28:00 just kill the softkey process and restart it in a terminal and it comes back May 14 15:28:02 Fox_Muldr: ah, thanks. back to shr-illume then. :) May 14 15:28:36 i think illume2 is better than illume1. like i said. just restart the process and you get the switcher bar at top May 14 15:28:55 Fox_Muldr: ah, ok. how do i do that from the terminal? May 14 15:29:11 seartch for the shr_softkey process pid May 14 15:29:25 Fox_Muldr: of course. sorry. May 14 15:29:30 Fox_Muldr: thanks May 14 15:29:41 and kill it's pid and restart it into background May 14 16:06:09 Fox_Muldr: tried "ps -e | grep shr_softkey", but no pid is listed? May 14 16:06:28 Fox_Muldr: where am i going wrong ^? May 14 17:44:24 hi. took me a couple of years but i finally have a free phone. May 14 17:45:22 now im trying to figure out what best to do with it. X seems to be horribly slow compared to directfb? May 14 17:45:55 if that ist true, are there any frontends running on directfb except qtextended? May 14 17:47:16 which version? May 14 17:47:23 neo1973 or freerunner May 14 17:52:06 quitte: who told you X is slow? May 14 17:57:35 PaulFertser: misinterpreted http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neoqplayer#Known_Problems . But it seemed to fit my experience with qtmoko compared to shr May 14 17:58:02 SpeedEvil: freerunner May 14 17:59:34 The fundamental issue is that anything on the freerunner can be quite slow, as the graphics card has a 7 megabyte/second bus. May 14 18:04:04 that's half the bus speed of isa iirc and should be enough for about 75 fps according to some quick calculations May 14 18:04:17 umm - no May 14 18:04:25 24 bit remember May 14 18:04:50 i used 24 bit but will do the math again May 14 18:04:53 Also - the transfers to the CPU blocks. May 14 18:05:29 i wouldn't mind using 16bit May 14 18:05:30 7*10^6/(640*480*3) May 14 18:05:31 7.59548611111111111111 May 14 18:06:20 quitte: if you ask google you'll most probably find the lengthy and detailed explanations by Raster busting the "X is inherently slow" myth. May 14 18:07:49 i don't exactly care wether it is inherently slow. will i get anywhere near the snappiness of qtmoko with a x based distribution? May 14 18:08:39 quitte: have you tried SHR-u with 2.6.32 kernel? May 14 18:13:10 PaulFertser: I tried lite-om-gta02 yesterday with the kernel image that looked newest. but ill give it another try looking for the -u and the 32 May 14 18:17:11 PaulFertser: the -u means micro sd? i had two and it seems the one i didn't loose at once is broken. so ill have to flash. for kernel .32 i guess that means remastering a jffs2 image? May 14 18:17:28 also where can i find the kernel you are talking about? May 14 18:19:22 quitte: -u means shr unstable May 14 18:19:34 quitte: and now, you do not need to do anything with rootfs. May 14 18:19:38 s/now/no/ May 14 18:19:39 PaulFertser meant: quitte: and no, you do not need to do anything with rootfs. May 14 18:20:13 quitte: sorry, but questions about the suitable kernel is not something i'm currently able to answer, wait for the SHR folks. May 14 18:21:20 i'll just flash unstable in the meantime. thanks May 14 18:22:37 quitte: i do not say it's as speedy as qtmoko because i've never seen the latter, all i can say is qtmoko is not really hacker-friendly, hence i have no interest in it. May 14 18:25:30 PaulFertser: i was thinking more of something like using gtk on directfb for my own experiments. May 14 18:25:51 http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB May 14 18:26:57 quitte: i do not think FB is decently accelerated on FR, and the interest of the leading graphics developer (Weiss) is quite low wrt fb. May 14 18:27:58 so there is a xserver that is more than just a layer on top of fb? May 14 18:28:00 quitte: the idea is that: the applications that use X in a good way get roughly the same speed as DirectFB. And then when you start needing window management and such you're starting to reinvent X. May 14 18:28:18 quitte: of course, there's a dedicated accelerated x.org driver for glamo. May 14 18:35:26 out of curiosity: does glamo need fb support, or could a kernel be built without it? May 14 18:35:53 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_steam_announcement&num=1 May 14 18:35:57 quitte: i'm not quite sure, probably the Weiss's kernel can be built without. May 14 18:38:20 you can't have both glamo-fb and glamo-drm drivers coexisting, because they do the same thing May 14 18:39:03 Weiss: i think you have provided some fb support through DRM, or am i confused? May 14 18:39:32 yep, but it's a little limited May 14 18:39:46 And you do not care much May 14 18:40:18 Looks like i was almost right in all i told quitte May 14 18:41:05 Weiss: could you be so kind and tell me which files i'm supposed to flash? as it takes forever i'd be very glad if i didn't have to try too many options until i catch up. May 14 18:42:01 it's limited because in KMS-land it doesn't do much beyond providing a surface for the kernel's console messages May 14 18:42:18 which files? the kernel would be a good start.. (uImage-GTA02.bin) May 14 18:42:44 http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin ? May 14 18:42:47 quitte: i think JaMa|Gone should know better about the kernels he actually compiled and tried with SHR. May 14 18:47:23 quitte: I think that's the 2.6.29 (non-DRM) kernel, but it should work May 14 18:48:51 Weiss: does drm mean there will be 3d and maybe even h.263 acceleration? May 14 18:49:26 "will" in a very loose sense for 3D at least.. there's only about 10% of a driver there at the moment May 14 18:50:56 great! i pretty much assumed there won't be any of gl and video acceleration ever May 14 19:19:11 is anyone else here aware, that when the freerunner goes into suspend, using the latest release of shr-unstable (13.5.2010), it can't come out of suspend? basically, screen goes blank, flashing _ in top left corner and then nothing. May 14 19:41:06 how do i quit programs? May 14 19:41:38 quitte: using shr-illume2? May 14 19:41:56 yes May 14 19:42:28 quitte: open a terminal and type "shr_elm_softkey" May 14 19:42:47 you're kidding? May 14 19:43:05 quitte: then use the top bar to bring up the left, right and exit icons May 14 19:43:28 does that mean i'm supposed to never quit a program? May 14 19:43:31 i gather shr_elm_softkey is not getting launched at boot, so you need to launch it manually May 14 19:43:34 at least i do May 14 19:44:01 quitte: you can then quit programs after launching shr_elm_softkey May 14 19:44:16 quitte: i gather you need to do that each time you boot mind. May 14 19:44:18 ok. ill do that then. May 14 19:44:33 quitte: do you have trouble with suspend? May 14 19:44:33 do you know where i can get a drm enabled kernel and its modules? May 14 19:44:44 quitte: sorry, no idea May 14 19:45:21 quitte: only reason i know about shr_elm_softkey is because i had the very same question earlier today! ;) May 14 19:45:34 havent tried,yet. ill give it another try with the drm kernel and if that doesnt make much of a difference ill go back to qtmoko. May 14 19:46:00 quitte: i'm going to attempt another install, as when my freerunner goes into suspend, i can't get out of it! May 14 22:26:30 huh, just booted shr-u image from 13th. it's asking me for PIN2. May 14 22:26:40 Does it really want some-other-pin, or should I just enter PIN? May 14 22:31:26 djp_: http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-user/2010-May/005108.html as you probably found by now May 14 22:42:32 <[Rui]> zub: pin May 14 22:42:58 yeah, I tried and it worked May 14 22:43:12 after upgrade it asks now for PIN anyway May 14 22:43:27 I was just a bit worrid, as I think there is such a think as PIN2... May 14 23:00:32 Hello! I want to buy a modern phone and want it to be as working as possible (in terms of features, battery life, usability) and then as free as possible (in terms of hackability, compiling own kernels, software, ...), in that order. Has anybody recomendations which device to buy? May 14 23:01:20 n900 May 14 23:01:32 <[Rui]> kW_: an OpenMoko Neo Freerunner V7 :) May 14 23:01:36 <[Rui]> or V7+ May 14 23:01:39 kW_: well if you come to this channel asking that question, I have to answer the FreeRunner ;) May 14 23:01:46 :) May 14 23:02:13 <[Rui]> A7 rathern than V7, sorry May 14 23:02:16 I use it as my only phone, and it has not only been reliable and functional, but fun as well :) May 14 23:02:21 kW_, if you want play with phone - n900 May 14 23:02:23 <[Rui]> kW_: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner May 14 23:02:32 if you want a toy, which can makes calls - Neo Freerunner May 14 23:02:42 well, I do own the freerunner May 14 23:02:59 if you want smth between - look at palm pre May 14 23:03:03 <[Rui]> max_posedon: can you use N900 as a phone as well as the Neo with Free Software? No... :) May 14 23:03:23 may be nexus one and so on, depend on Do you want hack gsm or not. May 14 23:03:37 <[Rui]> kW_: have you tried a recent shr-u? May 14 23:04:01 [Rui]: well, I just installed SHR testing yesterday May 14 23:04:21 kW_: +1 [Rui] , I've found the disto you use on the FR to make a *world* of difference in opinion :) May 14 23:04:28 <[Rui]> if only current SHR-u was installed when they finally started selling the Freerunners... it would have been a resounding success! May 14 23:04:56 [Rui]: is there considerable difference between SHR-testing and SHR-unstable? May 14 23:05:04 I use qtmoko, and have been very happy with it :) May 14 23:05:36 <[Rui]> kW_: as long as you keep backups and try to get a gist on the state of things before an upgrade, shr-u may be more interesting, YMMV May 14 23:06:08 <[Rui]> for instance, now in shr-u there's an EFL recent enough for me to move elmdentica from libcurl to ecore_con_url... May 14 23:07:25 I've been running on Om2008.12 and updates quite some time... and the final conclusion is that this is too unreliable for my applications (that is, have a working phone without a low battery and with the assurance that people can actually call you, with no crashed qpe threads in the background) May 14 23:07:58 2008.12? May 14 23:08:13 hm.. may be you even saw dinasours) May 14 23:08:36 yes, I had no time and opportunity to switch distributions, because there is no software to convert the address book... May 14 23:09:08 additionally, for my additional feature|requirement (encryption of storage), it seems that the freerunner is simply too slow (spending more than 50% CPU time in kcryptd when accessing storage...) May 14 23:09:36 try encrypt only important info, not all /usr May 14 23:10:43 max_posedon: well, some distros are happy to consider /usr as space for configuration, etc.... I cannot enforce the opposite as long as apps are run as root May 14 23:11:46 [Rui]: what is the total achievable standby-time in SHR-unstable on the freerunner? May 14 23:12:10 <[Rui]> kW_: hard to say, I haven't tried with my replacement battery for some time May 14 23:13:04 <[Rui]> kW_: I'm still with the original battery, and I haven't had energy issues *but* I usually keep the phone charging so I seldom am low on energy May 14 23:13:09 kW_, about 2 days May 14 23:13:24 <[Rui]> kW_: if you get the #1024 bug fixed, you get a WHOLE lot better standby-time May 14 23:13:25 (with not fixed #1024 ) May 14 23:13:26 [Rui]: is there any possibility to convert pim-data between qpe-format, SHR-format and maybe some standard format (e.g. vcard...)? May 14 23:13:47 <[Rui]> I don't know if Pisi supports all that, perhaps it does May 14 23:13:57 gpe-format might be can be exported to evolution May 14 23:14:08 which may be can export too google contacts May 14 23:14:10 <[Rui]> I'm using Pisi to keep in sync opimd contacts with a vcf file with all my contacts. May 14 23:14:19 <[Rui]> mind you, the VCF must be format version 3 May 14 23:14:19 and pisi can import google contacts May 14 23:17:16 well, this looks like good news May 14 23:17:23 I suppose SHR builds on opimd? May 14 23:17:57 <[Rui]> kW_: SHR builds on FSO, opim is one part of FSO and opimd one such daemon :) May 14 23:21:36 [Rui]: regarding SHR: what do I do when plugging-in the freerunner into my linux box and its syslog just says " usb 4-2: device not accepting address 11, error -71"? May 14 23:23:00 <[Rui]> kW_: erms... what GNU/Linux are you running? May 14 23:24:36 [Rui]: well, opensuse 11.2 with kernel 2.6.34-rc2 (note that the same device did connect before to the USB host when running Om2008.12) May 14 23:25:14 <[Rui]> kW_: well, you *surely* weren't running 2.6.34 then, much less an rc2 May 14 23:25:47 <[Rui]> kW_: if you compile your own kernel, either you missed something or then there's something new in 2.6.34 that breaks the connection May 14 23:26:26 well, I surely was running a Om2008.12 installation on the freerunner 2 days ago... May 14 23:26:38 until Qi did not want to boot from the SD card anymore... :-( May 14 23:27:10 <[Rui]> kW_: you mean you were running Om2008.12 *recently*? May 14 23:27:23 yes May 14 23:27:25 <[Rui]> kW_: lol, you must've been desperate :) May 14 23:27:35 <[Rui]> kW_: can you try shr-u ? May 14 23:27:52 sure, I can May 14 23:27:56 <[Rui]> or Debian, or qtmoko... whatever... :) May 14 23:28:03 can I upgrade from shr-testing to shr-unstable May 14 23:28:04 <[Rui]> even h:1 :) May 14 23:28:23 <[Rui]> kW_: I'm not sure, a daemon may come out and take your first-born if you do so, or not... May 14 23:28:36 <[Rui]> kW_: perhaps you could install a recent image May 14 23:28:53 <[Rui]> kW_: there's one from yesterday, I believe May 14 23:29:05 well, I can do this too (need to download it over the mobile phone network, though...) May 14 23:29:16 <[Rui]> kW_: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ May 14 23:29:26 <[Rui]> kW_: ouch May 14 23:29:29 a May 14 23:29:52 is it recommended to use the .ubi image? May 14 23:29:55 <[Rui]> kW_: don't you have a ยต-sdhc card reader (and/or an adapter for normal sd)? May 14 23:30:16 <[Rui]> kW_: I don't know... I used to fetch the tgz, but I haven't in a long time... May 14 23:30:28 <[Rui]> I might fetch this one this weekend so I can start with a clean slate :) May 14 23:30:32 currently not, I'm traveling right now... but I do have a USB cable... May 14 23:31:01 <[Rui]> oh May 14 23:33:07 <[Rui]> well, good luck if you do anything... I'm going to bed now... :) May 14 23:34:50 hehe May 14 23:35:21 <[Rui]> ta! May 14 23:35:31 kW_: afaik there are still some problems with UBI wit current kernel, so unles you feel adventurous, don't jump on that just yet May 14 23:35:41 also, you'd need UBI-firendly Qi May 14 23:36:09 zub: ok, I'm fine with jffs, although I'm not afraid of flashing Qi May 14 23:36:44 ubifs (if it works) is much nicer for phone May 14 23:37:08 e.g. imho, neo works much better with it May 14 23:38:04 max_posedon: what kernel are you using? May 14 23:38:15 hmm May 14 23:38:41 I tried few months ago, and it happened to me sevral times that it would fail to mount on boot, after several successful mounts May 14 23:38:42 zub, 2.6.29rc3 (shr-U default) May 14 23:38:46 that was a real showstopper :-( May 14 23:39:06 maybe it's better now, I just had the feeling I saw someone mentioning the issue (dunno if it was ML or irc) May 14 23:39:15 hm, I haven't problems for about a 2-3 months May 14 23:39:27 then I might re-try May 14 23:39:59 few months ago - we find out main problem - 'disabling background thread' fixed ubifs problems for most people May 14 23:40:07 but still, it wasn't very reliable May 14 23:40:22 but since 2.6.32 it should rocks May 14 23:40:42 btw. what's current status of GPS on SRH-U? I noticed there were some issue a week-two back, then I stopped watching the status May 14 23:41:10 I used it every day during bike-travels, updated 2 days ago last time. May 14 23:41:16 ok :) May 14 23:41:37 while you're in a talkative mood - what's status of 2.6.32 kernel? :) May 14 23:41:51 only one issue, for some reason phone can't change time from gps, but not a big problem May 14 23:41:58 2.6.32 have problems with suspend May 14 23:42:08 but X(glamo) much faster on it May 14 23:42:13 so, I use 2.6.29 May 14 23:43:22 if I felt adventurous... what's the best way to get 2.6.32? I have build some arm kernels in the past, but what's the om/shr way? May 14 23:43:28 is there a recipe for it in OE? May 14 23:43:34 I don't know May 14 23:43:44 ok, n/p May 14 23:43:45 I build kernels my own hands, when I want May 14 23:43:59 is there a defconfig for the FR? May 14 23:44:22 I suggest take ones from shr's git repos May 14 23:44:31 ok, sounds reasonable May 14 23:47:17 When I see "Alignment trap: enlightenment (790) PC=0x4026d306 Instr=0x6027 Address=0xbef558b7 FSR 0x813" on my freerunner running SHR-testing, something is wrong, I suppose...? May 14 23:48:29 kW_, yes and no May 14 23:48:44 e.g. its smth wrong in e17 sources May 14 23:48:51 and bug affects all platfroms May 14 23:49:03 but it shouldn't stop running processes May 14 23:49:30 afaik it's unalignet memory access May 14 23:49:34 it's a performance issue May 14 23:49:53 kernel notices it, fixes it... you take perf. hit, but apart form that all works May 14 23:50:20 I've seen this being discussed in -cdevel, so I guess there's some work on this being done May 14 23:50:48 ah May 15 00:12:29 Does anybody know how I can access the SD-card if /dev/mmcblk0 is not available? May 15 00:14:20 Just make it available... May 15 00:15:44 Load appropriate module or something like this May 15 00:39:42 kW_: if you don't see the device... look into dmesg, maybe u find something there May 15 00:40:24 zub: well, the device files were just missing for some weird reason May 15 00:41:27 kW_: I remember PaulFertser mentioned something about decreasing frequency (clock) of whatever chip it is that talks to the card - via some module param. May 15 00:42:20 hm, maybe try with some other card to see if it's hw or sw May 15 00:42:41 if the kernel doestn' May 15 00:43:14 detect/fails to talk to the card, the dev file doesn't show up May 15 00:43:34 thats why I suggested dmesg May 15 00:44:15 anyway, good night May 15 00:51:39 well, after decreasing the frequency and manually re-creating the device files, I can access the card **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 15 02:59:56 2010