**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 02 02:59:57 2010 Jun 02 04:34:16 PaulFertser: ping Jun 02 05:20:36 raster: will you have news any time soon? Jun 02 05:36:23 burrp Jun 02 06:00:53 undrwater: pong Jun 02 07:23:00 underwater pong? now that might be an interesting sport :) Jun 02 07:23:35 Most probably he's asleep already, living on the other side of Atlantic. Jun 02 07:25:23 hehe Jun 02 07:26:32 how much force to you have to use to fire that small ball over Atlantic? Isn't it burning in atmosfere? Jun 02 07:26:58 * JaMa smells some burning plastic over CR Jun 02 07:40:15 JaMa: probably it's so lightweight that it wouldn't reach big speeds on landing. The question is how to fire it. Jun 02 07:41:15 yeah IRC launcher for imaginary balls seems to work better, pitty, it would be fun Jun 02 10:05:33 is it jus me or is debian on phonomoko missing the fundementally important feature of MAKING AND GETTING PHONE CALLS ? Jun 02 10:08:45 Deathzor: You can can get those working. Maybe. Jun 02 10:08:50 Deathzor: But mostly, yes. Jun 02 10:09:23 thrashold: some how it has priority for me that i can make calls with my phone for some reason running openoffice seems less important. Jun 02 10:09:53 Running OpenOffice would be a bad idea anyway, when there's Abiword and Gnumeric Jun 02 10:10:12 People who run OOo do it to show off Jun 02 10:10:36 thrashold: i use debian on openmoko Jun 02 10:10:53 thrashold: on freerunner, and i'm using it as my only cellphone for 1.5 years Jun 02 10:10:54 Zhone can make phone calls, and it's the only thing that is in the repositories that it allows you to do this. It doesn't work for me. Jun 02 10:11:19 thrashold: it's not like that nowadays. Debian has SHR apps packaged since long. Jun 02 10:11:39 That's true, it took me a month to get them working, though Jun 02 10:11:50 thrashold: i'm not sure why you had such a dire problems Jun 02 10:11:52 And with the same success as with Zhone (no address book or messages) Jun 02 10:11:52 PaulFertser: could you give me a link to a list of packages that allow me to make phonecalls on debian ? would be intrested.. Jun 02 10:12:03 thrashold: because here it worked out of the box Jun 02 10:12:09 PaulFertser: Because there's no documentations mentioning that you need to install phoneui-shr manually Jun 02 10:12:38 thrashold: hm, yes. But somehow i guessed that. Probably after looking at the list of the project at shr repo or something. Jun 02 10:12:54 Deathzor: yes, that's basically phoneui-shr and it'll pull all the deps. Jun 02 10:13:01 Deathzor: and of course Zhone is there Jun 02 10:13:05 Well, yes. But looking at those was the last thing I did :) Jun 02 10:13:36 Deathzor: but i'm currently using a self-compiled FSO directly from git repo, to be as close to upstream as possible. Jun 02 10:13:40 Deathzor: and my Emacs UI to it. Jun 02 10:15:11 PaulFertser: so effectively there is some sort of tool there just no gui for it ? Jun 02 10:15:24 Deathzor: There are two GUIs Jun 02 10:15:40 And more, if you count those that aren't in Debian yet Jun 02 10:15:50 Deathzor: SHR apps, Zhone, and Emacs UI are interfaces to the middleware -- FSO. Jun 02 10:16:35 so techinical there is a lib to do the stuff that you can speak to aah oke its less worse then i toucht may just buy a openmoko as a second phone .. Jun 02 10:17:13 Deathzor: FSO currently is a set of daemons doing stuff you need and controllable via Dbus. Jun 02 10:18:02 so techinically i could write a python app to do the interfacing ... Jun 02 10:18:08 Of course Jun 02 10:18:14 In fact Zhone is just that Jun 02 10:18:46 In fact, it should be trivial to write one, although I haven't attempted yet :P Jun 02 10:18:53 But Zhone doesn't use opimd to store contacts and messages. Jun 02 10:19:02 aah oke :) so it sounds like its all to a point where i could exactly use the phone. Jun 02 10:19:21 as a sort of beta product that is but still use it Jun 02 10:19:30 Deathzor: provided it has buzzfix, and you're ready to face occassional breakage, yes. Jun 02 10:20:32 PaulFertser: so your saying i can use it as long is i don't try to get 100% uptime ? Jun 02 10:20:33 Deathzor: If you're that easily frustrated, you might consider SHR over Debian, too. :) Jun 02 10:21:09 contacts_default_backend = SIM-Contacts-FSO # Is this known to work? Jun 02 10:21:23 thrashold: but i want to run real linux on my phone like something i worked with before linux ;) Jun 02 10:21:47 Deathzor: Me too, but then I don't use the Freerunner as a phone Jun 02 10:21:53 i run gentoo on my desktop so i'm used to waiting btw :P thats not a big problem :P Jun 02 10:23:23 thrashold: well personally i want more then a pda so i would like the calling features to work ... Jun 02 10:23:58 Deathzor: the hardware is pure crap Jun 02 10:23:58 it's more than just PDA, it's (a bit slow) handheld computer Jun 02 10:24:06 Deathzor: if you can tolerate that Jun 02 10:24:35 PaulFertser: wait the hardware specs don't look to horrible to me considering its a mobile device Jun 02 10:24:35 Deathzor: and ready to hack somewhat to get things working... Jun 02 10:25:03 You can play point & click games, view all kinds of documents (text, images, PDF, ODF, MS Office), browse the internet, IM Jun 02 10:25:04 Deathzor: no EDGE, old slow SoC, huge bottleneck because of using multimedia decellerator for uSD access. Jun 02 10:25:19 read email Jun 02 10:25:31 PIM is something I wouldn't use it for, but you can do that, too Jun 02 10:25:35 And slow graphics performance, due to the stupid decelerator again (and big VGA screen) Jun 02 10:25:49 Deathzor: and btw, screen is hardly readable in direct sunlight. Jun 02 10:25:56 that too Jun 02 10:26:09 PaulFertser: why do i get a feeling i'm better of putting debian on a n900 ? Jun 02 10:26:15 But you can get used to it, I can use TangoGPS in direct sunlight Jun 02 10:26:23 then again i need to find out if i can make phonecalls with that .. Jun 02 10:26:27 Deathzor: Does this work already> Jun 02 10:26:50 Deathzor: n900 lacks usb hostmode (but it'll be hacked soon) Jun 02 10:27:03 Deathzor: n900 lacks easy connectivity for I2C or SPI devices Jun 02 10:27:14 Deathzor: n900 is damn expensive comparing to FR Jun 02 10:27:35 Deathzor: you can't get any telephony support currently on n900 at all (only proprietary shit there available) Jun 02 10:27:49 Deathzor: n900 kernel is old and unmaintained. Jun 02 10:27:58 so i'm better of with a freerunner then ... Jun 02 10:28:03 Cryptic bme and other proprietary shit etc etc Jun 02 10:28:19 Deathzor: it's a nice device but it's not free, and not as hacker-friendly as FR. Jun 02 10:28:56 thats kinda the hole point of getting a linux phone having a hack friend device so i can have a phone that can run my code and i can just generally mess around with .. Jun 02 10:29:53 Would a fuse mount manager (allowing to mount sshfs, obexfs with a GUI) be useful? Jun 02 10:30:28 I wrote one, but I'm lazy to test if it works, and to add more nice way to find an OBEX device and enable bluetooth and things :) Would it be useful to anybody? Jun 02 10:31:12 PaulFertser: lets put it this way using it as a phone whats the major issues i'm gonna run into with a freerunner ? Jun 02 10:31:32 Deathzor: a buzzfixed one? Jun 02 10:32:06 If not -- gsm buzz. Jun 02 10:32:37 2010.06.02 13:30:22.711 frameworkd.resource INFO setting resource status for GSM from disabling to disabled # Is there any way to find why GSM doesn't work at all? Jun 02 10:32:51 Deathzor: If yes -- you'll probably need to tweak alsamixer settings used during GSM calls and you'll get some result, but probably it won't be "ideal" sometimes. Jun 02 10:33:10 Deathzor: you'll probably need to restart telephony daemons sometimes. Jun 02 10:33:22 PaulFertser: the ons that are currently for sell, then again wasn't the bussfix just disconnecting a wire in the phone ? Jun 02 10:34:00 Deathzor: Please also note that so far I haven't been able to get any telephone working at all on Debian ever after I removed my compiled SHR apps and replaced them with what's in Debian Jun 02 10:34:14 Deathzor: So there are some issues of unknown origin possible Jun 02 10:34:22 Deathzor: if you do not get #1024 hardware fix, you'll get not more than 70hrs of standby with GSM. And even if you do probably you won't be happy with battery life. Jun 02 10:34:43 Deathzor: buzzfix -- replacing one 0402 resistor and adding a big capacitor. Jun 02 10:35:23 thrashold: i'm sure those telephony on Debian issues can be solved by an experienced tinkerer Jun 02 10:36:09 tbh i'm less worried about software the hardware problems are more of a pain. Jun 02 10:36:13 software can be fixed Jun 02 10:36:31 Deathzor: buzzfix is a must. 1024 fix is optional Jun 02 10:36:37 hardware means asking somebody to help me out because i suck @ hardware hacking. Jun 02 10:36:51 Deathzor: without bassfix you won't probably be able to use it as a music player too. Jun 02 10:37:02 (due to lack of bass) Jun 02 10:37:20 PaulFertser: are these issue still open in the current generation of phones ? Jun 02 10:37:22 Deathzor: buzzfix is ~easy for anybody who did SMD soldering before. Jun 02 10:38:06 Deathzor: buzzfix is included in A7, 1024 and bass fixes never were performed at OM factory (though some distris offer reworked devices iirc). Jun 02 10:39:56 Deathzor: wifi eats battery too, and it sometimes can't connect to some AP at all (probably SSID-related issue, since i was able to connect to one such point after changing its SSID). Jun 02 10:40:56 is the 1024 or the bass fix hard to perform ? Jun 02 10:41:51 Can you do SMD soldering? Jun 02 10:42:58 Deathzor: bass fix is probably harder than #1024, both are ~easy for an experienced guy. Jun 02 10:43:48 1024 fix seems easy to do, I'm even tempted to perform it (although I 'm very bad at soldering) Jun 02 10:43:58 Deathzor: 1024 fix is basically dismounting a can (anybody can do that provided he's careful) and then changing (or soldering in parallel) a 0805 cap. Jun 02 10:43:58 the bass fix looks very hard Jun 02 10:44:12 Deathzor: the bass fix is documented on the wiki Jun 02 10:44:50 thrashold: well, not being really experienced or professional i did the bass fix (my way) without much issues. Jun 02 10:45:55 By not good at soldering I mean I've succeeded in tearing apart the tracks of my mouse :P Jun 02 10:46:06 but that was after replacing a button in it four times Jun 02 10:46:40 It still works woth the track separate from the PCB :D Jun 02 10:46:56 er, they weren't printed if it works Jun 02 10:47:09 but anyway Jun 02 10:47:10 :) Jun 02 10:47:42 Every time I try to fix the GSM on my FR, it gets worse Jun 02 10:50:36 PaulFertser: so it sounds like your advicing me to ask a more skilled hardware hacker to have a look. Jun 02 10:54:19 gsm0710muxd fso-gsm0710muxd which of those two should I install? Jun 02 10:57:13 Hm, it doesn't work with either, but at least the first starts Jun 02 11:07:21 PaulFertser: there is no real diagram of what exactly needs to be added for the bass fix ? Jun 02 11:08:01 OK, so I found the problem -> The GSM works with Zhone, ophoneuid doesn't request the GSM resource Jun 02 11:08:17 On the other hand, SIM messages don't work -> framework is reading them, but phoneui messages gets none Jun 02 11:08:51 And the code for SIM messages looks awful Jun 02 11:15:45 Deathzor: there're full schematics available, and the fix is just adding to caps in parallel to the components mentioned. Jun 02 11:15:54 Deathzor: and anyway both bass and 1024 fixes are optional. Jun 02 11:16:15 thrashold: phoneui wants messages in opimd Jun 02 11:16:21 thrashold: while zhone uses sim Jun 02 11:16:55 PaulFertser: I have configured opimd to use SIM Jun 02 11:17:17 PaulFertser: no messages in either Zhone or PhoneUI messages Jun 02 11:17:20 thrashold: sim backend support was removed quite some time ago. Jun 02 11:17:35 thrashold: so probably it simply doesn't work in your version Jun 02 11:17:40 Oh, so I'll have to use my other phone still Jun 02 11:17:51 thrashold: the only supported backend currently is sqlite db. Jun 02 11:18:08 PaulFertser: the bass fix sounds kinda important to me. then 1024 fix i seem to care less about Jun 02 11:18:42 Deathzor: probably you can use some nice A2DP headphones instead of doing the bass fix. Jun 02 11:19:20 Deathzor: and if you do the bass fix, do 1024 too, because you've already device opened, and GSM can shield is easier to dismount and you have everything prepared for work etc. Jun 02 11:19:29 PaulFertser: by looking at the code, I find it unlikely that it ever worked Jun 02 11:19:40 :) Jun 02 11:21:51 PaulFertser: wait is the bass issue effecting head phones or isn't it ? Jun 02 11:22:18 PaulFertser: Is the same true about SIM contacts? Jun 02 11:22:29 because from what i read it is effecting headphones .. Jun 02 11:27:55 Deathzor: headphones, yes. Jun 02 11:27:59 Deathzor: but not bluetooth Jun 02 11:28:27 aah oke i guess thats a workaround :) Jun 02 11:31:38 hi. is there a reason other than typos that all the fb.modes lines that i found in the wiki and in qtmokos filesystem are weird? according to the manpage the first line is xres yres vxres yres depth - and i'd assume that the virtual resolution should be the same as the physical resolution? Jun 02 12:06:27 do we have SHR wallpaper? :) Jun 02 12:06:45 I mean for desktop ie 1920x1200 Jun 02 12:09:45 PaulFertser: you don't happen to know a shop that sells pre fixed phones btw ? ( somewhere in europe ) Jun 02 12:19:39 Deathzor: i'm not sure, probably it was Pulster or Golden Delicious. Jun 02 12:19:52 Deathzor: you can try to search it on the ML archives. Jun 02 12:20:07 golden delicious seems to have a broken webpage :P Jun 02 12:20:17 JaMa: any news? did you make the unstable kernel? Jun 02 12:27:22 ? please remind me what we talked about before Jun 02 12:28:27 and btw there are newer gta0[12] images built few mins ago (if there is someone willing to test) Jun 02 12:29:12 but not much changed from user POV, maybe faster text rendering with newer cairo, calibration should work on all kernels but not after rotation Jun 02 12:29:57 and nothing new on 2.6.3x front (except fix for gcc-4.5.0 which wasn't pushed as nobody is probably building shr with gcc-4.5 execpt me) Jun 02 12:30:41 whatever news you can track on http://gitorious.org/~jama/angstrom/jama-shr-experimental Jun 02 12:31:32 PaulFertser: i may just call the shop in belgium and ask them :) ( i speak flemish well kinda so should not be a big deal ) Jun 02 12:32:52 JaMa: that's all we sayd yesterday that I'll try the latest kernel for gta01 Jun 02 12:33:11 I'll download those lastest and try Jun 02 12:36:54 dTb: not kernel.. but whole image please Jun 02 12:37:08 dTb: ah so you've changed nick, haven't you? Jun 02 12:37:45 dTb: and pointercal.xinput should be provided for om-gta01 too Jun 02 12:38:01 dTb: in image as well as pointercal-xinput package Jun 02 12:38:14 ops sorry Jun 02 12:39:21 JaMa: you said yesterday that I should try pointercal.xinput from gta02 Jun 02 12:41:14 Tembos: it's not needed anymore Jun 02 12:41:19 ok Jun 02 12:41:29 http://git.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/commit/?id=fb641200b65b3d3c465332efb1febab7001eff47 Jun 02 12:41:44 but still would be great if you confirm it works for you Jun 02 12:42:37 I mean not needed to use it from gta02.. but that file is still important :) Jun 02 12:44:15 I'll do it once I got everything downloaded. Jun 02 12:44:33 this is the third world so bandwith is expensive Jun 02 12:47:30 today I have read about zsync, not sure how it works, but it would probably help a lot as images are from big parts the same Jun 02 13:20:22 downloaded the uImage Jun 02 13:20:29 downloaded the modules Jun 02 13:20:42 now downloading the shr-full-rootfs Jun 02 13:21:01 got a Kingston microSD 4G Jun 02 13:21:24 had partitioned vfat=100M ext3=the rest Jun 02 14:08:01 shr-rootfs downloaded Jun 02 14:08:09 now untaring Jun 02 14:08:53 now untaring modules Jun 02 14:09:17 syncing Jun 02 14:09:56 eject Jun 02 14:19:31 repartition formating again neo1973 doesn't reconize the microsd Jun 02 14:31:37 going to a 2G micro doesn't reconize the 4G Jun 02 14:36:38 strange.. all my 2g/4g/8g cards worked in my gta02 Jun 02 14:45:05 quick question: how can i check the status of the signal in tangogps? till it gets a fix. Jun 02 15:01:37 JaMa: remember this is a gta01 Jun 02 15:02:15 JaMa: first thing different from testing branch Jun 02 15:03:07 JaMa: I got booted the cell with the 2G card and on the first boot I got the ssh to try xinput, on test I allways had to power off and on the second ssh started Jun 02 15:04:36 JaMa: really I need the xinput_calibrator? I clicked next and worked without running xinput Jun 02 15:06:04 finished the wizard Jun 02 15:06:21 see the local gsm network signal 100% Jun 02 15:06:25 will try a call now Jun 02 15:10:51 Tembos: xinput_calibrator_once.sh is called from Xsession.d script and as I've pushed updated pointercal-xinput package containing /etc/pointercal.xinput (used by that script to restore calibration) you don't need to change anything Jun 02 15:17:10 first resume: without touching anything at all (only local area network), first boot, reconize the gsm network, send sms fail, receive sms works, cell call fail, receive a call ok second try but heard nothing, gps is not working, will try more without touching anything and tell you later Jun 02 15:20:25 good that's better than I expected... for particular issues would be better to fill tickets in shr trac Jun 02 15:20:31 Tembos: thanks for testing Jun 02 16:11:39 it seems that with new kernels mplayer-glamo doesn't work on fbdev anymore. is that also true for x? Jun 02 16:18:45 mplayer-glamo = mplayer -vo glamo? Jun 02 16:18:49 yes Jun 02 16:19:00 then both are wrong, both should work Jun 02 16:19:06 and X works even better Jun 02 16:20:11 i gave shr another try. it's so slow compared to qtmoko that i'm having trouble believing that the graphics bus is the root cause. Jun 02 16:20:19 JaMa: I have installed uImage, sh-full-rootfs, modules Jun 02 16:20:29 JaMa: i'll try to build my own kernel then Jun 02 16:20:48 JaMa: should I update all with opkg update? Jun 02 16:20:57 JaMa: or no need? Jun 02 16:21:07 Tembos: you can, but only cairo is newer then last image Jun 02 16:21:15 ok Jun 02 16:21:36 ah and that's not built yet (still running) Jun 02 16:21:49 so opkg upgrade won't upgrade anything Jun 02 16:21:54 ok Jun 02 16:22:53 any other pkg you suggest? Jun 02 16:23:03 that is not on the roofs? Jun 02 16:24:30 to test? Jun 02 16:24:58 there is only a few (if any) gta01 specific packages outside full image Jun 02 16:25:57 http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/om-gta01/ shows gta01 specific pingus :) Jun 02 16:26:16 * JaMa off to go home.. bbl Jun 02 17:01:05 hi Jun 02 17:01:10 stupid quedtion Jun 02 17:01:21 Openmoko GTA02 already have a default battery Jun 02 17:01:25 no ned for another one Jun 02 19:55:44 hi! How much problems 2.6.34 have? Does it usable if I'll disable suspend? Jun 02 19:57:30 and which branch should be used? (may be some gdrm from 2.6.32 better?) Jun 02 20:07:40 can anyone point me to the right direction (url) to get wifi wpa2 working with shr in FR? Jun 02 20:36:49 the qtmoko v24 shows to be fot gtao1 Jun 02 20:36:58 gta01 Jun 02 22:46:04 JaMa|Zzzz: just for your known, today I started the latest shr, was working (with the problems you know) but, then I power off then reboot the phone and all gsm stuff didn't work again, tomorrow I'll try to redo everything **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 03 02:59:57 2010