**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 13 02:59:57 2010 Oct 13 17:31:30 are Om.2008 (GTK) phone applications being ported to FSO? Or they are deprecated and discontinued? Oct 13 17:35:00 2008 was Qt & Enlightenment, 2007 was gtk. both are discontinued. SHR/FSO is where most folks are working with, and then QtMoko and Debian. Oct 13 17:36:13 does installing SHR phone suite make sense? Oct 13 17:36:17 on debian. Oct 13 17:40:26 i'm not sure whether SHR packages exists for debian Oct 13 17:40:40 wrt. FSO debian is cursed with very old packages I'm afraid Oct 13 17:41:13 since the debian model doesn't work well for stuff in development Oct 13 17:41:23 then again, worth a try Oct 13 17:43:37 i remember FSO or other unofficial repo contains shr phone apps Oct 13 17:46:41 adiblol: the largest problems with FSO vrt. debian are that it depends on a new compiler that is not in debian yet Oct 13 17:47:14 mickeyl: couldn't you just publish released versions that contain generated C code so that debian would not need to run valac? Oct 13 17:47:33 lindi-: valac is not in debian?!?! Oct 13 17:47:51 adiblol: afaik FSO depends on bug fixes that are only in newer versions Oct 13 17:48:02 lindi-: yes, i can cut a set of releases Oct 13 17:53:31 so... is there any GTK/QT (not e17) FSO-compatible phone GUI? Oct 13 17:54:10 adiblol: I some for my own use but they probably won't work with vala based fso Oct 13 17:54:31 adiblol: wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/user:lindi documents some of it Oct 13 17:55:35 ... or any way to make e17 apps look like the rest of GUI? i mean - to use GTK as backend? Oct 13 17:56:52 adiblol: that sounds hard Oct 13 17:57:12 no, i dont want to write my own wrappers Oct 13 17:58:40 adiblol: what do you mean? Oct 13 17:59:16 if there is no method, i dont want to think and code one. Oct 13 18:00:21 adiblol: I'm afraid thinking is required on a development platform :) Oct 13 18:00:57 but not about GUI :) Oct 13 18:03:17 well, someone could always take the old 2007 apps and port them to use a better middleware Oct 13 18:03:37 BTW, I got a new HTC Desire Oct 13 18:03:54 it's interface and usability is outstanding Oct 13 18:04:06 i sincerely hope it's better than the Nexus One Oct 13 18:04:08 (compared to SHR for example) Oct 13 18:04:12 which is merely crap Oct 13 18:04:23 i can't understand why they released such a bad phone Oct 13 18:04:26 *shrug* Oct 13 18:04:48 Gabrys: is the interface free software? Oct 13 18:04:53 mickeyl: and what do you mean? hardware or software of Nexus one? Oct 13 18:05:08 lindi-: I'm not sure, it's Android + HTC stuff Oct 13 18:05:12 Gabrys: both, in fact. the hardware feels cheap, the sensor buttons are a nightmare, the software is sluggish Oct 13 18:05:13 Froyo BTW Oct 13 18:05:20 Gabrys: better check it out before advertising on freenode :) Oct 13 18:05:58 the software is very liberal for user (maybe not for developer though) Oct 13 18:06:14 it finally allows you to do a 3G-over-wifi hotspot without any hacks Oct 13 18:06:35 I love my n900. Oct 13 18:06:36 so I haven't rooted my phone and still have no reason to do so Oct 13 18:06:54 the software doesn't restricts the user Oct 13 18:07:03 No rooting required, and you need about 3 commands to install gcc if you want to. Oct 13 18:07:10 after debian upgrade launching apps from ancient Om 2007 no longer works... Oct 13 18:07:37 My neo1973 is awaiting recycling into a microwave oven controller when I get round it. Oct 13 18:07:38 yes, the n900 is not bad. i still feel they missed some opportunities wrt. hardware quality, but it's solid Oct 13 18:07:55 With internet enabled webcam of the inside. Oct 13 18:08:00 nice idea Oct 13 18:08:02 mickeyl: In what way? Oct 13 18:08:25 and feature that just rocks is that it can last for 5 days on suspend with wifi on, still getting e-mail and notifying about them Oct 13 18:08:44 Gabrys: n900 is more or less the same. Oct 13 18:08:54 keyboard could be better, and the case material doesn't harmonize with my feelings Oct 13 18:09:14 mickeyl: Fair enough. I got up to about 35wpm on it when my laptop broke. Oct 13 18:09:20 which is plenty for me. Oct 13 18:09:45 SpeedEvil: true. i just wish it had the HTC Touch Pro's keyboard Oct 13 18:10:02 best keyboard since psion jumped the shark Oct 13 18:10:04 Never played with one. Oct 13 18:10:09 HTC Desire keyboard is pretty cool too Oct 13 18:10:41 also N900 is more expensive than Desire Oct 13 18:10:43 I'm adding a compass and gyro to mine, to add direction info to pictures I take. Oct 13 18:11:06 I managed to get to under half price with rebates - so it wasn't so bad for me. Oct 13 18:11:45 nice Oct 13 18:13:06 I'm not sure what to do with my FreeRunner now Oct 13 18:13:54 Gabrys: run the android + htc stuff on it? Oct 13 18:14:00 http://ukhas.org.uk/ Oct 13 18:14:24 lindi-: on FreeRunner? Oct 13 18:14:45 Gabrys: yeah Oct 13 18:15:17 I tried to improve android on freerunner, but I need to sadly say it sucks Oct 13 18:15:29 Gabrys: any particular reason? Oct 13 18:15:47 lindi-: development is hard for many reasons Oct 13 18:16:14 I didn't manage to compile any working (non-static) C program for Android >1.5 Oct 13 18:16:37 I wanted to have the bluetooth fix/workaround on Android Oct 13 18:17:02 there's non-standard C compiler, non-standard "make", non-standard stdclib Oct 13 18:17:22 for some reason programs compiled for 1.5 are not compatible with 2.0 Oct 13 18:17:31 Gabrys: ignore android ;] Oct 13 18:17:59 for, say, "low-level" developer android for freerunner is quite messy Oct 13 18:18:25 but ports of android for other HTC phones originally running WinMo Oct 13 18:18:29 are quite successful Oct 13 18:18:46 so probably there's either something wrong with android-on-freerunner project Oct 13 18:19:02 or the hardware is too different from originally-android-phone Oct 13 18:19:12 Gabrys: they are succesfull probably because winmobile is such crap :) Oct 13 18:19:21 (while those WinMo models are close to some Android phones) Oct 13 18:19:43 FreeRunner is ARMv4 Oct 13 18:19:47 which sucks badly Oct 13 18:20:42 i think android would need decent rootfs - e.g. debian Oct 13 18:20:42 after that many years of development we still don't have support for it in mainline kernel Oct 13 18:20:45 which also sucks Oct 13 18:21:00 android as a userspace package for Debian would be cool Oct 13 18:21:19 yup that was my idea :) Oct 13 18:21:37 Gabrys: what about framework daemon compatibility? Oct 13 18:21:39 in fact I believe it's not that hard to write apk-runner Oct 13 18:21:41 android uses its own. Oct 13 18:22:25 apk-runner would be an application that let's you run apk application, display them and have them access some resources of the phone Oct 13 18:22:37 Gabrys: would that really be so useful? Oct 13 18:22:39 not necceserily all of them, some may be harder to translate than others Oct 13 18:23:02 sure, many android applications are cool Oct 13 18:23:10 and they are designed to be run on small device Oct 13 18:23:25 Gabrys: I understood many are not free software though? Oct 13 18:23:25 in contrary to plenty of apps we can run on FR Oct 13 18:23:32 lindi-: who cares Oct 13 18:23:36 Gabrys: I do Oct 13 18:23:41 many are BTW Oct 13 18:23:50 maybe enough are to make it worth it Oct 13 18:23:51 there are plenty of open source applications and libs for Android Oct 13 18:24:21 FR is cool because it can run plenty of open source apps there are available Oct 13 18:24:38 but how many of them is it really cool to run on FR Oct 13 18:24:59 and how many Android apps it would be cool to have running on FR even without having them make calls for you Oct 13 18:25:07 just GUI + internet Oct 13 18:25:25 and calls, SMS, contact list in future maybe Oct 13 18:26:22 Android infrastructure would allow you to make wrappers for calling, volume control, SMS and probably other functionality to other frameworks if you need Oct 13 18:27:01 adiblol: so it's still possible to have "most" of android running on top of GNU/Linux Oct 13 18:28:26 Gabrys: hmm, is there some way to find Free Software android apps? Oct 13 18:28:30 majority of android apps is shit like window$ apps Oct 13 18:28:43 trial, adware, paid... Oct 13 18:28:49 proprietary Oct 13 18:29:13 lindi-: there are a bunch of them under http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/ Oct 13 18:29:16 majority of debian/SHR/whatever apps are FLOSS programs. Oct 13 18:29:50 sound works at all, but i cant enable the speaker Oct 13 18:30:15 Gabrys: yeah but is it easy to find them if most are non-free? Oct 13 18:31:20 lindi-: I am not sure, never tried Oct 13 18:31:53 why do you mind android at all? it's crap ;] Oct 13 18:32:21 even if it's crap, it's usable Oct 13 18:32:38 the only usable distribution for FreeRunner was QtMoko Oct 13 18:33:02 SOUND WORKS... Oct 13 18:34:31 f&^*ing pulseaudio... Oct 13 18:34:50 who installed it in this image?!?! Oct 13 18:35:19 but on PC pulseaudio does _NOT_ suck. Oct 13 18:37:32 i even thought about creating my own GUI library for mobile devices, which would be fast, not pretty ... but _another_ API is not what we want... Oct 13 18:38:15 Enlightenment should be banned from SHR. It's too pretty :-) Oct 13 18:38:52 "my GUI library" would provide GTK backend, that's the difference. Oct 13 18:39:35 or pure X window controls ;D Oct 13 18:42:21 but.... actually regular GTK is fast enough. Oct 13 18:42:40 the problem is with app that uses it (openmoko-today) Oct 13 19:21:52 how do I blank screen using xset? Oct 13 19:24:36 badcloud: xset s activate Oct 13 19:24:55 badcloud: if dpms is supported then xset dpms force off Oct 13 19:25:30 PaulFertser: thanks, dpms doesn't seem supported in qtmoko Oct 13 19:25:50 and xset s activate works, but something causes the screen to go right back on Oct 13 19:27:19 no clues in dmesg Oct 13 19:27:26 badcloud: try sleep 0,1 ; xset s activate Oct 13 19:27:34 (or 0.1 if your locale prefers that) Oct 13 19:28:38 PaulFertser: nice! that did the trick! Oct 13 19:28:41 thanks so much Oct 13 19:28:45 :) Oct 13 22:05:49 whathell Oct 13 23:14:17 slaxxer: what? Oct 14 00:13:43 Boing. Oct 14 00:14:41 Is there anyone here present who can talk about the design/rationale behind FSO's GPS support? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 14 02:59:57 2010