**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 25 02:59:57 2011
Feb 25 05:50:25 <DocScrutinizer> people.om was dead
Feb 25 05:57:08 <Infoport> if the guy on ebay would sell more OM screens again, I'd be happy
Feb 25 06:16:13 <linuxxr> thanks doc
Feb 25 13:09:03 <michelem> hello folks
Feb 25 13:09:12 <PaulFertser> Hey
Feb 25 13:10:02 <michelem> I'm trying to clone a SSD to another and I'm having some issues. DST is bigger than SRC and with compatible geometry. dd didn't work, so I now copied via dump/restore, but I need help for figuring out the boot part
Feb 25 13:10:52 <michelem> what else should I mirror? the MBR (512 bytes) I guess, the partition's bootblock (also 512)? More?
Feb 25 13:12:07 <lindi-> michelem: "didn't work"?
Feb 25 13:14:41 <michelem> it would fall back to boot from NAND
Feb 25 13:15:06 <lindi-> michelem: what exact command did you use?
Feb 25 13:15:09 <michelem> I now fucked up updating uboot, so I can't tell the exact behavior until I fix it
Feb 25 13:15:22 <michelem> lindi-: for dd?
Feb 25 13:15:25 <lindi-> michelem: yes
Feb 25 13:15:36 <michelem> dd if=x of=y bs=1m
Feb 25 13:15:41 <lindi-> michelem: and x is?
Feb 25 13:15:58 <michelem> _ /dev/sde
Feb 25 13:17:01 <lindi-> michelem: so you are copying a uSD on a PC and trying to boot it in freerunner?
Feb 25 13:17:32 <michelem> I dup a uSD on a PC, stick it into the GTA02 and try to boot
Feb 25 13:19:02 <lindi-> michelem: your new uSDHC card might not be supported at all?
Feb 25 13:19:34 <michelem> let's go with order
Feb 25 13:19:49 <michelem> I'll fix the bootloader thing first
Feb 25 13:20:14 <michelem> I have two devices, one I fucked up
Feb 25 13:20:23 <michelem> how can I tell if the other one ran uboot or qi?
Feb 25 13:21:12 <lindi-> michelem: sudo strings /dev/mtdblock1 |grep -i u-boot
Feb 25 13:21:25 <michelem> thanks
Feb 25 13:24:57 <michelem> lindi-: while fixing bootloader on the fucked up device, I can repeat the boot on the ok device
Feb 25 13:25:23 <michelem> this is with the dump/restore image. Any possible to fix bootloader with that, without repeating dd?
Feb 25 13:25:34 <michelem> they are 16GB uSD, so they'll take forever
Feb 25 13:26:06 <lindi-> michelem: hmm?
Feb 25 13:26:15 <lindi-> michelem: you can read/write boot loader with DFU
Feb 25 13:27:13 <michelem> I'm underperforming today, I slept like 3h, so go slow :)
Feb 25 13:27:48 <michelem> that SD has debian. In the back of my head Debian used a partition layout other than the standard
Feb 25 13:27:54 <michelem> let me look it up
Feb 25 13:28:32 <michelem> ah OK, I think that was Qi
Feb 25 13:30:28 <lindi-> michelem: I have no idea what standard partition layout on freerunner means :)
Feb 25 13:32:05 <michelem> lindi-: they should sort you out as special case on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel-developers-are-not-polite
Feb 25 13:34:15 <michelem> tell me if I get it right
Feb 25 13:34:57 <michelem> nevermind, I think I got it
Feb 25 13:36:09 <michelem> bottom line is, with this boot scheme the content of anything other than the uSD partition itself should be irrelevant. Correct?
Feb 25 13:37:16 <michelem> uboot takes kernel from NOR, Qi takes it from uSD data partition, MBRs and bootblocks on uSD are irrelevant
Feb 25 13:37:38 <PaulFertser> michelem: MBR has the partition table, so it is relevant for Qi.
Feb 25 13:39:10 <michelem> PaulFertser: yes, but that's taken care of by fdisk before "restore"
Feb 25 13:39:34 <michelem> I got it anyway.
Feb 25 13:52:02 <lindi-> michelem: u-boot reads kernel from nand or uSD
Feb 25 13:52:08 <lindi-> michelem: NOR has only u-boot
Feb 25 13:54:34 <michelem> uhm
Feb 25 13:56:08 <lindi-> michelem: what u-boot does depends entirely on its environment
Feb 25 13:56:49 <michelem> it's ok. uhm was for some else
Feb 25 13:57:06 <michelem> apparently SRC has partition type vfat but actual type ext2
Feb 25 13:57:26 <michelem> that tricked me into making DST vfat too
Feb 25 13:57:33 <michelem> and vfat supports no symlinks
Feb 25 13:57:40 <michelem> uImage.bin was a simlink
Feb 25 14:15:44 <michelem> now the SD is fixed, and /boot/uImage.bin exists, does point to the actual image, and that has same md5 as SRC
Feb 25 14:16:59 <michelem> still, at boot I get "Unable to read uImage.bin from mmc1:1
Feb 25 14:17:56 <lindi-> michelem: what's your u-boot environment?
Feb 25 14:20:39 <michelem> how can I tell?
Feb 25 14:21:10 <michelem> I formatted with mkfs.ext3 , but read uBoot goes fat32+ext2 . Any chance it's that?
Feb 25 14:21:25 <lindi-> michelem: the 'printenv' command in u-boot prints it
Feb 25 14:22:24 <michelem> lindi-: sounds far fetched
Feb 25 14:22:44 <lindi-> michelem: hmm?
Feb 25 14:23:04 <michelem> it boots with SRC. I copy SRC to DST; same device. Why should it not work?
Feb 25 14:23:17 <lindi-> michelem: SRC == uSD?
Feb 25 14:23:44 <michelem> SRC = uSD1, DST=uSD2
Feb 25 14:23:50 <lindi-> michelem: I think the only reason can be that your new uSD car is not supported
Feb 25 14:23:56 <michelem> uSD2 is a tiny bit bigger
Feb 25 14:23:56 <lindi-> s/car/card/
Feb 25 14:23:57 <apt> lindi- meant: michelem: I think the only reason can be that your new uSD card is not supported
Feb 25 14:24:26 <michelem> possible
Feb 25 14:24:40 <lindi-> michelem: does mmcinit u-boot command print any errors?
Feb 25 14:25:50 <lindi-> michelem: I use  http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/uboot.conf  to configure my u-boot
Feb 25 14:25:59 <michelem> I don't know what you're talking about
Feb 25 14:26:19 <lindi-> michelem: you can talk to your boot loader with e.g. picocom
Feb 25 14:26:26 <lindi-> michelem: it supports a huge number of commands :)
Feb 25 14:26:37 <michelem> lindi-: ok, thanks, but again it seems far fetched :)
Feb 25 14:26:45 <lindi-> michelem: well I'd like to see the error message
Feb 25 14:27:14 <lindi-> "Unable to read uImage.bin from mmc1:1" does not yet specify why it fails
Feb 25 14:27:15 <michelem> ok, I'll do since you've been so available
Feb 25 14:27:20 <lindi-> heh
Feb 25 14:27:39 <michelem> will take 10' to finish the restore on ext2
Feb 25 14:27:47 <lindi-> michelem: u-boot commands are described in http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/DULG/UBootCommandLineInterface
Feb 25 14:27:49 <michelem> oh, I can run it anyways itmt
Feb 25 14:28:49 <lindi-> maybe openmoko should have been shipped without software so that all users would be familiar with their boot loader :)
Feb 25 14:30:15 <michelem> honestly I got past the allure of understanding all nitty gritties a few years ago. That bunch of hours I prefer to spend chilling out or having sex :D
Feb 25 14:38:38 <michelem> I get "Wrong image format for bootm command"
Feb 25 14:39:13 <michelem> lindi-: picocom /dev/what ?
Feb 25 14:39:23 <lindi-> michelem: ACM0 probably
Feb 25 14:39:57 <michelem> do I need anything other than uboot prompt?
Feb 25 14:40:09 <lindi-> michelem: what do you mean?
Feb 25 14:40:20 <michelem> I turned on, held power+aux
Feb 25 14:40:22 <lindi-> michelem: you should start by checking what the "mmcinit" command returns, it should identify your card
Feb 25 14:40:36 <lindi-> michelem: did you get to NOR or NAND u-boot?
Feb 25 14:40:54 <michelem> how can I run that if the OS doesn't boot
Feb 25 14:41:03 <michelem> no clue
Feb 25 14:41:10 <lindi-> michelem: it is enough that u-boot boots to its menu
Feb 25 14:41:32 <michelem> this is taking waaaay too long, I guess I'll just give up the fast and expensive flash
Feb 25 14:41:49 <lindi-> michelem: you want to learn u-boot anyway :)
Feb 25 14:42:32 <michelem> ok
Feb 25 14:42:39 <michelem> _ /dev/ttyACM0
Feb 25 14:42:50 <lindi-> michelem: probably
Feb 25 14:43:01 <michelem> you want the env right?
Feb 25 14:43:18 <lindi-> michelem: I can take a look
Feb 25 14:43:53 <michelem> exit / quit /ctrld don't work, how do I quit ?
Feb 25 14:44:03 <lindi-> michelem: picocom? ctrl-a q
Feb 25 14:44:21 <michelem> thx
Feb 25 14:44:46 <michelem> ok
Feb 25 14:45:35 <michelem> http://dpaste.de/iMzw/
Feb 25 14:47:10 <lindi-> a sec
Feb 25 14:47:34 <michelem> mmcinit —> http://dpaste.de/htiW/
Feb 25 14:48:07 <lindi-> michelem: what I see:   http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/u-boot.txt
Feb 25 14:48:41 <lindi-> michelem: your bootcmd loads kernel from NAND
Feb 25 14:49:09 <michelem> weird because with the other card it starts automatically from mmc
Feb 25 14:49:24 <michelem> but anyways, with this card I tell uboot to start from mmc
Feb 25 14:49:31 <michelem> manually with pwr+aux
Feb 25 14:49:33 <lindi-> michelem: are you sure you booted from NOR u-boot?
Feb 25 14:49:41 <lindi-> michelem: "pwr+aux" is not clear enough
Feb 25 14:49:50 <lindi-> michelem: aux down, power down => NOR
Feb 25 14:49:54 <lindi-> michelem: power down, aux down => NAND
Feb 25 14:50:03 <michelem> oh god
Feb 25 14:50:10 <michelem> NOR then
Feb 25 14:50:13 <michelem> let me redo it
Feb 25 14:50:20 <lindi-> if you hit them at the same time you get random result :)
Feb 25 14:50:40 <michelem> i push aux first normally, which do you want
Feb 25 14:50:49 <lindi-> michelem: you want to work with NAND
Feb 25 14:51:30 <michelem> thanks for clarifying that
Feb 25 14:52:01 <lindi-> michelem: use NOR only to flash NAND :)
Feb 25 14:52:08 <lindi-> michelem: and then work with software that is in NAND
Feb 25 14:52:48 <michelem> can you clear me on that
Feb 25 14:53:04 <michelem> there is a Qtmoko installation on the NAND, right?
Feb 25 14:53:21 <michelem> how big is that nand?
Feb 25 14:53:55 <michelem> if I push PWR alone which one starts?
Feb 25 14:54:08 <lindi-> michelem: I think qtmoko is typically installed to NAND yes (/dev/mtdblock6)
Feb 25 14:54:31 <lindi-> michelem: NAND in total is 256 MB
Feb 25 14:54:44 <lindi-> michelem: u-boot in NAND is the default
Feb 25 14:54:57 <lindi-> michelem: (/dev/mtdblock1)
Feb 25 14:55:34 <lindi-> michelem: if you hold AUX then the boot code from NOR gets executed instead
Feb 25 14:55:41 <michelem> ok I don't get this. If I hold PWR+AUX (NAND), I don't get a uboot prompt. I get an (old) qtmoko running
Feb 25 14:55:49 <michelem> the device vibrates before starting
Feb 25 14:56:17 <michelem> while with the other uSD, same phone, if I only push PWR it starts from uSD
Feb 25 14:57:08 <lindi-> michelem: maybe you have Qi in NAND then? it does not have a menu
Feb 25 14:57:19 <michelem> yes, that's most likely
Feb 25 14:57:36 <michelem> still, why does it not boot uSD, which from docs appears the 1st choice
Feb 25 14:57:51 <michelem> lindi-: any easy way to tell if the uSD is unsupported?
Feb 25 14:57:59 <lindi-> michelem: I don't know how to debug Qi sorry :/
Feb 25 14:58:09 <lindi-> michelem: I don't know if Qi prints any error messages anywhere at all
Feb 25 14:58:15 <michelem> I already costed some 350$ on this single problem, I don't think they're happy with it :)
Feb 25 14:58:25 <michelem> uhm
Feb 25 14:59:03 <PaulFertser> lindi-: of course, Qi does!
Feb 25 14:59:04 <PaulFertser> ;)
Feb 25 14:59:40 <lindi-> PaulFertser: where?
Feb 25 14:59:52 <PaulFertser> michelem: Qi boots from the first _ext2_ partition, using it for both kernel and root.
Feb 25 15:00:00 <PaulFertser> lindi-: serial console, of course.
Feb 25 15:00:14 <lindi-> michelem: do you have a debug board?
Feb 25 15:02:09 <michelem> no
Feb 25 15:02:12 <michelem> forget it :)
Feb 25 15:02:36 <michelem> I'll try to clone SRC to an identical uSD and see if it works
Feb 25 15:02:40 <lindi-> PaulFertser: Qi probably doesn't support usb so michelem can't really see the error without a debug board?
Feb 25 15:03:37 <PaulFertser> lindi-: sure thing.
Feb 25 15:03:47 <lindi-> michelem: so, can't debug Qi without debug board sorry :/
Feb 25 15:04:38 <michelem> bummer, I'll use the slow card
Feb 25 15:05:27 <michelem> curiously, the new fast class card was bought to avoid spending a day in OS optimization, but getting it to work took half day anyway :)
Feb 25 15:05:58 <michelem> I'll test with the clone uSD to make sure it's an unsupported card problem, as you said
Feb 25 15:43:49 <michelem> for the archives
Feb 25 15:44:07 <michelem> following the same procedure (dump / restore) with the identical SSD works
Feb 25 15:44:24 <michelem> I conclude that the faster-class uSD is actually unsupported.
Feb 25 15:44:44 <PaulFertser> michelem: by Qi? All cards should be supported.
Feb 25 15:45:05 <michelem> PaulFertser: yes, Qi
Feb 25 15:45:08 <PaulFertser> michelem: the problem is you do not have the serial console...
Feb 25 15:46:19 <michelem> PaulFertser: whatever POV you want to take. The new uSD is identical, just bigger, has consistent data, everything in place, but does not boot
Feb 25 15:46:43 <michelem> the slower class uSD, identical 1:1 to SRC, same duplication procedure, boots
Feb 25 15:47:01 <PaulFertser> michelem: sorry but that doesn't tell me much, i'd need Qi's output to say anything meaningful about it.
Feb 25 15:47:28 <Bert_2> Hi, I think I have a failing LCD, I'm trying to free the mainboard of my freerunner from the case but it seems stuck (I removed the screws etc.), it seems like I can't get it off the small plastic hooks on the sides, anyone know what I should do (video, instructions, pictures, whatever) ?
Feb 25 15:47:29 <michelem> I understand. All I'm saying is, from my PoV the problem is in Qi, so out of my reach.
Feb 25 16:00:10 <SpeedEvil> Bert_2: Basically, - from memory - you need to gently splay the case, while gently pulling up on the PCB
Feb 25 16:00:18 <SpeedEvil> (this is with a neo1973)
Feb 25 16:00:50 <Bert_2> SpeedEvil: yeah, I just found out what's wrong, I didn't noticed a HUGE crack on the screen
Feb 25 16:00:55 * Bert_2 is very sad :(
Feb 25 16:00:57 <SpeedEvil> :/
Feb 25 16:01:19 <Bert_2> is anyone still selling the Freerunner LCDs ?
Feb 25 16:02:03 <SpeedEvil> Check ebay?
Feb 25 16:07:20 <Bert_2> SpeedEvil: 69€, isn't that a lot for a display ?
Feb 25 16:47:01 <SpeedEvil> Bert_2: suppy and demand
Feb 25 18:24:17 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: (michelem) MMC/SD size:        3MiB  .oO(???) o.O
Feb 25 18:26:26 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: also there's rumours / reports about MOKO11-calypso-update failing on HC cards, for unknown reasons
Feb 25 18:26:54 <DocScrutinizer> possibly uBoot doesn't know how to access them
Feb 25 18:29:57 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: looks like a known but harmless bug in uboot.
Feb 25 18:31:16 <DocScrutinizer> looks like a vartype / maxint problem
Feb 25 18:32:45 <DocScrutinizer> maxint(sint32) == 2GB
Feb 25 18:32:48 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: he said he's using Qi and i know for sure Qi works with most SDHC cards.
Feb 25 18:33:23 <DocScrutinizer> to me it sounded like he's not aware about using anything particular for bootloader
Feb 25 18:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> and odds are he booted a smaller uSD via uBoot which now fails, and Qi doesn't boot same card due to known small differing requirements (name of kernel img etc)
Feb 25 18:35:57 <DocScrutinizer> or even larger diffs, like VFAT boot partition for uBoot
Feb 25 18:36:28 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, just felt like adding my 2€ct
Feb 25 18:37:01 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: yep, probably
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 26 02:59:57 2011