**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 06 02:59:58 2011 May 06 10:13:27 hi, I buy an old freerunner. Can someone tell me what I must update? gsm firmwar, ... May 06 10:14:08 GSM firmware + distribution of your choice May 06 10:14:15 Exactly May 06 10:14:30 kilae: also if you're going to use it for gsm telephony, make sure you have "buzz fix" applied. May 06 10:14:44 kilae: when in doubt, search site:wiki.openmoko.org and ask here. May 06 10:14:49 kilae: and yeah, welcome :) May 06 10:14:58 khorben: hi :) May 06 10:15:03 hi :) May 06 10:16:34 thx May 06 10:18:44 what you think about shr and android on sd? May 06 10:18:56 not too bad May 06 10:19:22 asthro better idea? May 06 10:20:37 I have only SHR(u), and Froyo on SD to show people what can be done on openhardware May 06 10:20:39 kilae: many endusers are happy with qtmoko afaik May 06 10:21:11 I like QtMoko, but only if you want to use it "out of the box" May 06 10:21:29 the "tuning" is a bit tricky May 06 10:22:22 and I'm still working on hackable:1 May 06 10:23:26 I use Debian with FSO from git and Emacs. May 06 10:23:49 H:1... fast and reliable May 06 10:24:00 kilae: i would suggest that you just try all distris and choose the one that you like the most May 06 10:26:31 That is the best things to do May 06 10:26:46 and perhaphs you'll manage to install archlinux and keep it ? May 06 10:26:48 ;-) May 06 14:41:38 hey how is it going? May 06 14:42:03 Are you waiting for GTA04 or maybe experimenting with Moko+BeagleBoard hybrid already? May 06 14:44:27 Still using my trusty ol' gta02. May 06 14:49:16 great to know, Paul; and hey it's true - a knowhow-bunch of old fixed bugs is way better than a vast amounts of new headaches :) May 06 14:52:38 however I can't wait to get my hands on GTA04's OMAP3530 which is a round-well-tested one, has no glamo-like sluggishness and is faster and bells-and-whistles`fuller board in general May 06 14:52:47 +the camera 8)) May 06 15:13:20 sledges: indeed. And has a hopefully sane gsm chipset. May 06 15:13:23 hi May 06 15:14:26 sledges: as i already have n900 but can't really use it due to numerous issues which do not allow one to really enjoy it. But the guys are very active and doing an awesome job, so there's a hope. May 06 15:22:04 PaulFertser: yes, a no-brainer GSM stack would finally be great (think of UMTS and HSDPA benefits you'll get with GTA04 !...) May 06 15:23:02 PaulFertser: my friend is using N900 here; what issues are you having? Pity Nokia sold its soul to M$ .. and exposed itself as a not really good upkeeper of linux phones farm :( another burden left to an already-busy community out there.. May 06 15:23:11 hi PBeck May 06 15:46:13 hey sledges May 06 16:45:07 sledges: n900 issues? No gsm connectivity, no power management, no gps... May 06 16:46:43 strange, PaulFertser, my mate here is using it as his daily phone.. with Maemo on it May 06 16:47:19 sledges: my friend does that too. But for me maemo is not an option at all. May 06 16:48:25 why? May 06 16:48:35 i see :))) May 06 16:50:13 i think maemo is the best way so far for using a free and usable phone May 06 17:04:06 but maybe that's why Paul is on this channel, PBeck :) May 06 17:04:17 due to his personal hacky choice May 06 17:06:11 PBeck: maemo makes me sick, it's neither free nor cool. May 06 17:06:58 sledges: we are all in this channel, because we want a free phone. But in time we have to use a not so open phone that is usable or we use a freerunner and that is in my opinon not comparable with a n900 and maemo May 06 17:07:25 PaulFertser: oh i think it's cool - why not? May 06 17:08:25 PBeck: I think PaulFertser uses some OM distro on his N900 just for a different flavour for the spare-time; that's like voiding warranty - have fun, but don't complain about N900 being useless :) May 06 17:09:51 have a good weekend, fellas! May 06 17:10:00 PBeck: too many gotchas all around, including random issues with power-eating applications (like Categorise), gtk incompatibilities, general pain of using a non-mainline distro... And anyway i won't trade my emacs+fso for some proprietary shit for gsm telephony. And i need gsm telephony, so i've to carry my fr with me anyway. May 06 17:10:18 sledges: i think he is using shr - but i think it's in a alpha state May 06 17:11:03 I'm using Debian May 06 17:11:18 And n900 i do not use at all as i have no usecase for it. May 06 17:11:55 PaulFertser: power eating application is possible on the Freerunner too. Which gtk incompatiblities? I had problems with the python maemo gtk bindings. Now i using qt which looks the same way. May 06 17:13:14 PaulFertser: the freerunner was never a option to me. It was slow and it has problems to connect to the gsm and gps network. And then i had the problems that sometimes a call comes not to me ;) May 06 17:13:49 PBeck: FR has free telephony stack, n900 doesn't. So n900 is not an option for telephony for me. Everything else is secondary to this main concern. May 06 17:14:28 PaulFertser: the gsm stack is not open. So it's 'only' the binding between UI and gsm stack May 06 17:17:00 PBeck: i know that gsm firmware is closed, but it's running on a different chip anyway. And FSO gives me much more control over it than maemo proprietary shit, that's a deal-breaker. May 06 17:17:22 PaulFertser: yes thats true May 06 17:17:49 PaulFertser: we need urgent gta04 and a good ui May 06 17:18:32 PBeck: also, involvment in openmoko made me meet plenty of fine people and to enjoy team work and to get some kernel hacking experience etc etc. That's something one never gets in the sick maemo community. May 06 17:18:52 o/ paul May 06 17:19:34 PaulFertser: oh thats not true May 06 17:19:58 PaulFertser: it gives kernel hacking, too. For example to save power May 06 17:20:09 and i think the MaemoCon is a bit bigger May 06 17:20:27 PaulFertser: so it's not true that the maemo community has no active development May 06 17:21:39 PaulFertser: maemo works on the base of application development, but of course it has to use the closed source api. In Meego it's open May 06 17:21:59 PBeck: (maemo kernel hacking) you probably do not know about my involvement in that area... May 06 17:22:12 DocScrutinizer: hey man, what's up :) May 06 17:23:11 PBeck: i've seen enough of the maemo community on #maemo. And i have no doubt it's not nearly as good as openmoko's. Ask any dev if you think i'm too biased. May 06 17:23:11 just hi, and running to get milk for coffee May 06 17:25:43 PaulFertser: in which area not good as openmoko? May 06 17:26:18 let me put it this way: when #maemo == #ubuntu then #openmoko == #gentoo May 06 17:28:37 PBeck: maemo "community" is mostly a bunch of clowns writing nonsense on talks.maemo.org, totally incapable of anything real. There're rare developers who are actually sane and cool, but not enough to make a community, and they do only application-level stuff anyway. May 06 17:28:50 PBeck: Mer was a reasonable effort but unfortunately too limited too. May 06 17:29:12 DocScrutinizer: it's not the answer on my question ;) We know that it's not as free as openmoko. But for the developer it's not a difference to program for maemo or openmoko when you not use any api May 06 17:30:48 PBeck: fyi i implemented a clean patch for maemo kernel to get usb hostmode. So you guess i have some clue about the maemo community. May 06 17:33:01 PaulFertser: the answer on 19:27 was the right. May 06 17:33:23 PaulFertser: it's right that it gives only application level stuff ;) May 06 17:33:59 PaulFertser: for the normal user as me it's enough to have a debian based linux system that i can all the stuff from my computer on it May 06 17:34:31 PaulFertser: i hope nokia can open the maemo development May 06 17:35:04 i don't know i meego will be do it better May 06 17:55:11 nokia opening maemo development - won't happen May 06 17:55:24 a) there is no more maemo development May 06 17:55:48 b) nokia never opens up some of the old stuff, nobody knows exactly why May 06 17:56:22 probably because it's not even their own property, but done by contractors who hold the copyright May 06 17:59:41 DocScrutinizer: so we have to find a new good open phone manufacture May 06 18:00:02 DocScrutinizer: i have heard that LG will step into the meego development May 06 18:00:56 nokia actually packed all the middleware into an incredible number of either closed or poorly documented and linked to closed daemons and libs, so you in fact can't so anything about maemo basic May 06 18:05:45 i dont understand the last sentence May 06 18:22:36 PBeck: raster was promising something sane from Samsung. Haven't heard from him for ages... May 06 18:31:29 PaulFertser: hehe May 06 18:35:53 w May 06 21:59:00 PaulFertser: there's been a paper with much too much blue blocks (* closed source) May 06 21:59:17 even maemo is better May 06 22:40:17 DocScrutinizer: speaking of? meego? May 06 22:40:38 nah, that raster samsung linux May 06 22:40:39 ah bada maybe May 06 22:40:46 no, not bada May 06 22:40:51 another one? May 06 22:40:53 wow May 06 22:40:57 how many will it take May 06 22:41:13 bada is nonsense May 06 22:41:39 raster said "a hickup" May 06 22:42:14 ok May 06 22:42:21 so it'll be ditched eventually? May 06 22:42:43 alas first papers of "raster's linux" also were full of blue (=closed source) blocks in the diagram May 06 22:44:18 if you have any pointers to good info I'll be interested May 06 22:44:19 according to raster Samsung is more like 30 independent big companies competing with each other, rather than one Inc with a common strategy May 06 22:44:28 ok May 06 22:44:36 and what's your opinion about meego? May 06 22:44:47 poor fellas May 06 22:45:11 intel is still spending quite a lot of money in promoting it May 06 22:45:27 LG and AMD have said they're joining May 06 22:45:27 yeah, for tablets based on intel chips May 06 22:45:39 not for telephony then May 06 22:45:58 I'll be at their dev event next week in Paris May 06 22:46:04 see what they have to say May 06 22:46:18 dev event of meego next week in paris??? May 06 22:46:25 yeah during solutions linux May 06 22:46:31 wow May 06 22:46:32 intel appup May 06 22:46:50 there was one such event in berlin in april @cbase May 06 22:46:57 with an application contest May 06 22:47:10 seems everybody forgot about Paris while all are gathering in SF May 06 22:47:11 I couldn't join though May 06 22:47:32 and there's linuxtag exactly at the same time May 06 22:47:40 poor scheduling May 06 22:48:51 well, let me put it that way: meego is using upstream no matter what. Nobody is checking if those upstream bits are ok for a handheld May 06 22:49:26 yeah, meego's sdk is libqt+qtcreator+qemu, that's it May 06 22:49:53 if you point them at problems like I did, with e.g. the accelerometer driver polling the chip at 20Hz and thus eating battery like mad, they say they can't do anything as this driver "is upstream" May 06 22:50:06 ... May 06 22:50:30 did they even understand the advantage of going open source? May 06 22:50:48 well, nobody did, or I didn't May 06 22:51:07 I talked with a lot of people about it. larsc for example May 06 22:51:17 as OM has a way better driver May 06 22:51:31 nobody is interested in bringing sth better upstream May 06 22:51:40 that's depressing May 06 22:51:47 yes, exactly May 06 22:51:54 keeps reminding me why I prefer to write my own shit May 06 22:52:13 at least I can fix bugs I find them May 06 22:52:18 +when May 06 22:53:04 anyway, speaking of battery life, my laptop is asking me to go home :) May 06 22:53:22 I'll bbl May 06 22:53:37 actually that whole depressing story during last ~3days made me doubt the concept of linux at large May 06 22:54:39 * khorben <3 BSD, *there* you welcome contributions and they're integrated through the whole base system May 06 22:54:51 (but it's no panacea either) May 06 22:55:22 (I mean, at least there's no open source hypocrisy) May 06 22:55:48 (anyway, really bbl now) May 06 22:55:53 (nice talking) May 06 23:11:05 (back) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 07 02:59:58 2011