**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 23 02:59:58 2011
May 23 03:32:19 <linuxxr> planet says "None of the range-specifier values in the Range request-header field overlap the current extent of the selected resource."
May 23 10:01:13 <FelixJongleur> Hey, does anyone know where to find the layout of the test points of/around the debug/jtag port of the gta02? Couldn't find it anywhere :(
May 23 10:04:00 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 23 10:04:11 <SpeedEvil> You've looked for the schematic?
May 23 10:18:37 <FelixJon`> yepp. I got the schematics, also for the debug port, but there are 21 test points, only 16 shown in the schematic (with 17 ports). So I don't know which is which. I know up right is a gnd...
May 23 10:21:34 <SpeedEvil> hmm.
May 23 10:21:50 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer
May 23 10:40:56 <PaulFertser> I know the answer too.
May 23 10:41:12 <PaulFertser> PCB layout PDFs, they have all the available testpoints.
May 23 10:42:37 <SpeedEvil> ah - you diddn't appear on the chanlist for some reason. yes - that would be a good idea.
May 23 10:42:49 <SpeedEvil> I should have thought of that - not propelry awake yet. :)
May 23 10:45:04 <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: long time no see, how's life?
May 23 10:45:29 <SpeedEvil> Much the same - still trying to sort out the house and grounds - though I'm further along.
May 23 10:45:33 <PaulFertser> FelixJon`: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/GTA02/lindi-searchable/
May 23 10:46:04 <SpeedEvil> Currently I'm trying to get one side of the house well insulated, to slash my heating bills, and installing a solar-thermal panel for hot water.
May 23 10:46:37 <PaulFertser> HiTech all around :)
May 23 10:47:10 <SpeedEvil> Decidedly low-tech in some ways, but vacuum solar collectros from china are getting very cheap.
May 23 10:47:28 <SpeedEvil> I'm just rather annoyed at the moment that in the UK, it's not poweible to net-meter with solar-pv.
May 23 10:48:19 <SpeedEvil> It's only possible to either install panels for massive subsidy (twice what you pay normally in electricity per kWh) - if they are approved panels, by an approved fitter, for maybe 4* the market rate.
May 23 10:48:46 <SpeedEvil> Or to get 'generation' payments of about a fifth of what you normally pay, for nonapproved panels.
May 23 10:48:46 <FelixJon`> thanks, searching for schematics and pcb guided me to the docs I needed :)
May 23 10:49:17 <SpeedEvil> And of course, the subsidies are paid disproportionately by the poorest in society.
May 23 10:52:14 <DocScrutinizer> oh well, same as it ever was
May 23 10:52:44 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 23 10:53:23 <SpeedEvil> And of course 'the solar industry' - by which the UK government means the army of people that go up roofs - lobby hard for this position to carry on. 
May 23 10:53:42 <SpeedEvil> As it's a nice little earner to be approved panel-fitters.
May 23 10:53:43 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, sure
May 23 10:53:59 <PaulFertser> Sick world :/
May 23 10:54:28 <DocScrutinizer> hope you must use the nice german solar cells ;-D
May 23 10:54:56 <DocScrutinizer> ex-gdr need your money ;-P
May 23 10:55:45 <SpeedEvil> I priced some panels by the palletload earlier I can get them at around a quarter of the approved, installed price.
May 23 10:56:44 <SpeedEvil> To the point that if it was viable to simply net meter - that is - run your normal meter backwards - it would be a financially viable propsect, with no subsidy.
May 23 10:58:05 <DocScrutinizer> here you get ~2..3 times the normal cost of kWh when you feed back by PV
May 23 10:58:46 <DocScrutinizer> the energy suppliers have to pay that, and they get it back from all those using electric power
May 23 10:59:00 <SpeedEvil> Same here.
May 23 10:59:09 <DocScrutinizer> I always thought of loppback :-P
May 23 10:59:22 <DocScrutinizer> loop back*
May 23 10:59:31 <SpeedEvil> I find it depressing that a pointless industry is subsidised.
May 23 10:59:42 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
May 23 10:59:46 <SpeedEvil> It's so massively cheaper to have large fields of solar panels that people can buy shares in.
May 23 11:00:03 <DocScrutinizer> see desertec
May 23 11:00:16 <SpeedEvil> Well...
May 23 11:00:23 <DocScrutinizer> there's quite a bit of european movement now
May 23 11:00:35 <SpeedEvil> That has sepeerate issues - any time the power crosses borders, there are obvious issues.
May 23 11:00:44 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 23 11:01:00 <SpeedEvil> Some places are quite well placed and moderately stable - Spain, for example.
May 23 11:01:11 <DocScrutinizer> we got same issues with the piplines from russia thru belarus
May 23 11:01:37 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - it's bad when you hear about energy issues as the headline on the news.
May 23 11:01:41 <SpeedEvil> It should be boring.
May 23 11:01:49 <DocScrutinizer> in the end all want money, all will play nice
May 23 11:02:55 <DocScrutinizer> and it's rather hard to wiretap 1MV DC lines ;-D
May 23 11:04:06 <SpeedEvil> It is not hard to destroy them though.
May 23 11:04:12 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 23 11:04:27 <SpeedEvil> Or to shut them off if you have a governmental disagreement.
May 23 11:04:28 <DocScrutinizer> except for the fact they are underground 
May 23 11:04:44 <SpeedEvil> See russia/gas.
May 23 11:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> nobody wnat to shut them down
May 23 11:05:04 <DocScrutinizer> except for weirdos
May 23 11:05:16 <SpeedEvil> Problem is that in some places, they elect wierdos.
May 23 11:05:20 <DocScrutinizer> it's a money source
May 23 11:05:49 <DocScrutinizer> seems they stopped that purpose now in north africa
May 23 11:07:23 <DocScrutinizer> Marokko is even taking leadership and building desert solar without the EU :-D
May 23 11:07:47 <SpeedEvil> If I was Iran, I would actually be heavily investing in nuclear power.
May 23 11:08:00 <SpeedEvil> Simply as storage is a massive problem for solar.
May 23 11:08:07 <SpeedEvil> And someone needs to make baseload power.
May 23 11:08:29 <DocScrutinizer> not for desertec, they store thermal
May 23 11:08:37 <SpeedEvil> True.
May 23 11:08:58 <SpeedEvil> http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M/en_GB/electronics/home/productsandservices/products/ProductNavigator/TapeAdhesives/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20KHO6_nid=8NBTLH65Q6beL4S7689SR8gl - I recently found.
May 23 11:09:12 <SpeedEvil> After 20 years outside - it has a reflectance of 95%
May 23 11:09:14 <DocScrutinizer> way more power available from sun than you need, ground is dirt cheap
May 23 11:09:20 <SpeedEvil> It's a bit more expensive though.
May 23 11:09:29 <SpeedEvil> 30e/m^2
May 23 11:10:23 <SpeedEvil> Then all you need is a nice bit of curved plywood, and you've got a really great solar collector.
May 23 17:10:19 <trev2> Does anyone know how to convert my old qtmoko-package to a valid .deb I can install on the new qtmoko version using debian packages? Is there a simple approach?
May 23 20:44:34 <ShenLong> hi
May 23 21:51:38 <Hydrant_> what's going on with the openmoko project these days?  I've been out of the loop for a few years, and since my cell contract is expiring I might finally go to an openmoko for my "production phone"
May 23 21:51:42 * Hydrant_ has a freerunner
May 23 21:53:22 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately little.
May 23 21:53:35 <SpeedEvil> Well - there is some efforts on the sW side
May 23 21:53:40 <SpeedEvil> But OM corporate is out of it.
May 23 21:54:00 <SpeedEvil> There are efforts to make a GTA04 type device.
May 23 21:55:17 <Hydrant_> it's too bad... I really liked giving money to support the hardware development, it's why I bought one
May 23 21:55:45 <Hydrant_> I just want a phone that doesn't spy on me... Android is out, so is anything Apple
May 23 21:55:46 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 23 21:56:00 <SpeedEvil> I'm happy with my nokia n900 at the moment.
May 23 21:56:05 <Hydrant_> nokia is now MS tho
May 23 21:56:10 <Hydrant_> otherwise I probably would have gone with them
May 23 21:56:13 <SpeedEvil> Nokia has claimed they will release one more meego device.
May 23 21:56:18 <SpeedEvil> This year.
May 23 21:56:32 <SpeedEvil> Seemingly a phone.
May 23 21:58:58 <Hydrant_> I don't know why it seems to be a prerequisite to be evil to sell mobile phones
May 23 21:59:05 <Hydrant_> the "app store" model bothers me immensely
May 23 21:59:17 <Hydrant_> as does a lot of the attitudes regarding privacy / GPS
May 23 21:59:28 <Hydrant_> if it's open software, I know exactly what my GPS is doing
May 23 21:59:46 <Hydrant_> it's really too bad they aren't making new openmoko's, I had hoped to upgrade since it's been a few years
May 23 22:00:03 <Hydrant_> even if the phone is more money, I don't mind so long as it's open you know?
May 24 00:19:16 <DocScrutinizer> Hydrant_: there's never been a break even for building OM FR, so while you might be willing to pay even more than the already somewhat high price, you're probably not changing this basic fact that there's not been enough money in it the long term, at least the way OM did (or not did) it
May 24 00:38:34 <Hydrant_> DocScrutinizer: I understand, but I can still be a tad disappointed :-)
May 24 00:39:36 <Hydrant_> also, to be fair, no "production" phones were ever made afaik anyways, it was always marketed toward "developers" so it is a bit difficult to know how the general market would have responded to a "stable release" of thephone
May 24 00:41:10 <SpeedEvil> It's sort-of-depressing in that FR was supposed to be 'production' - and that held up dev sales enormously.
May 24 00:41:47 <SpeedEvil> I am of the opinion - and was at the time - that they should have just polished the neo1973, and got it ready for xmas sales to slightly-less-core devs.
May 24 00:42:19 <SpeedEvil> Where polished was limited to a basic working phone, working powersave, bugfixes on the hw, and that's it.
May 24 00:42:27 <SpeedEvil> SMS too.
May 24 00:42:39 <SpeedEvil> But almost only that + X + gtk
May 24 00:43:02 <Hydrant_> when I bought the FR... I remember it was marketed as a "developer release"
May 24 00:43:08 <DocScrutinizer> indeed before I joined OM I pndered to buy a gta01 NEO with that nice suitcase, and had to learn they were completely out of stock
May 24 00:43:28 <Hydrant_> if it had 3G I would be using this phone right now... GPRS is a bit too slow for my greedy data needs
May 24 00:43:31 <SpeedEvil> The FR was marketed as a developer release - yes.
May 24 00:43:38 <SpeedEvil> However.
May 24 00:44:14 <SpeedEvil> During the time from neo1973-> FR, much of the effort was supposed to be going into getting something consumer-ready.
May 24 00:44:32 <SpeedEvil> Negecting the fact that apple and android were hurtling over the horizon.
May 24 00:44:54 <DocScrutinizer> that's always what I thought the FR been all about. 1973 been the 'developer' device
May 24 00:45:13 <Hydrant_> well, apple and android have done very well for themselves recently... the whole "we like to watch you everywhere" thing has made ditch my iPhone now, and just reuse my sim card with the openmoko
May 24 00:45:20 <SpeedEvil> :/
May 24 00:45:32 <Hydrant_> I was pretty happy having a "phone that just works" out of the box with the iPhone... but I'm not happy anymore
May 24 00:45:50 <SpeedEvil> TO be fair - if you want to do geolocation on cell, and wifi - there is no real other choice.
May 24 00:45:50 <Hydrant_> I bought an openmoko, played with it... and decided I needed a production phone that just worked
May 24 00:46:04 <Hydrant_> I don't need geolocation, I'd rather keep my privacy
May 24 00:46:13 <SpeedEvil> Other than to have _lots_ of survey vans.
May 24 00:46:13 <Hydrant_> or have an option
May 24 00:46:25 <Hydrant_> "would you like to have really slow location services... or send data"
May 24 00:54:44 <Hydrant_> what is involved with getting 3g on the openmoko, or is it relatively hopeless at this stage?
May 24 00:55:12 <SpeedEvil> Duct tape a USB battery, 3G modem, onto the back.
May 24 00:55:25 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately.
May 24 00:55:28 <Hydrant_> okay
May 24 00:55:35 <SpeedEvil> Or use a wifi-3g device
May 24 00:56:00 <Hydrant_> so is openmoko completely dead, just resting or what is the real situation?
May 24 00:56:47 <SpeedEvil> The company is dead/resting.
May 24 00:57:14 <Hydrant_> hrrm
May 24 00:57:14 <SpeedEvil> There is activity going on in the community - SHR on other platforms, and there is a project to do a phone that fits in the OM case.
May 24 00:57:49 <Hydrant_> I assume the hardware manufacturing is the expensive part?
May 24 01:06:22 <SpeedEvil> yes.
May 24 01:06:48 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_revisions
May 24 01:07:47 <Hydrant_> okay
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 24 01:08:22 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 24 05:32:15 2011
May 24 07:47:48 <PaulFertser> larie: hi there
May 24 07:47:55 <larie> PaulFertser: hello
May 24 07:48:28 <PaulFertser> larie: ebay would be a good option, but pay attention to 950/800 difference, you need EU (950) version.
May 24 07:49:30 <PaulFertser> larie: also i'd try posting to forums at linux.org.ru, chances are, plenty of people who have FRs now switched to something else, so they have it available.
May 24 07:50:23 <PaulFertser> larie: if you want it for GSM telephony, you'd need a "buzzfix" but it's ~trivial for anybody who occassionally does SMD soldering.
May 24 07:50:31 <larie> PaulFertser: i can't find it on ebay
May 24 07:50:55 <larie> PaulFertser: hmm hmm
May 24 07:51:46 <PaulFertser> larie: and no, i won't sell mine, that's still my only (and beloved) cellphone ;)
May 24 07:52:21 <larie> PaulFertser: haha! i want it too! ))
May 24 07:53:27 <PaulFertser> larie: it doesn't work that well in fact...
May 24 07:53:43 <larie> PaulFertser: what is wrong with FreeRunner?
May 24 07:55:46 <PaulFertser> larie: immature software
May 24 07:56:36 <larie> PaulFertser: if i will use gentoo on it?
May 24 07:57:57 <PaulFertser> larie: what middleware are you planning to use?
May 24 08:08:58 <larie> PaulFertser: idk yet.. 
May 24 14:42:55 <fmari>  what's the better mobile with skype client and gps?
May 24 15:45:34 <max_posedon> fmari, I think n900
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 25 02:59:57 2011