**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 19 02:59:56 2011
Jul 19 06:36:41 <pabs3> how does one find the GPRS APN/etc info for a network (at DebConf11, wondering how to get data access)
Jul 19 06:48:39 <PaulFertser> pabs3: from a network provider.
Jul 19 06:48:56 <PaulFertser> pabs3: sometimes they have those settings exposed on their website
Jul 19 06:49:23 <PaulFertser> pabs3: sometimes they can send you a special message via sms. Sometimes it's easier to ask the folks who's already using it. Or just google.
Jul 19 06:51:46 <PaulFertser> pabs3: usually only APN matters, and any values for login/password work.
Jul 19 06:52:41 <PaulFertser> pabs3: even when website has only stupid examples (e.g. for windows xp), you can see the relevant data on the screenshots anyway.
Jul 19 13:01:55 <ttyS3> DocScrutinizer: 
Jul 19 13:01:56 <ttyS3> Hab eine Antwort vom Support der SD-Karte bekommen.
Jul 19 13:01:58 <ttyS3> DocScrutinizer: Prinzipiell kann Ihr Entwickler durchaus Recht haben, je grösser die Kapazität einer Karte ist, je länger dauern einige Initialisierungen / Überprüfungen, die innerhalb der Karte vorgehen. Diese werden bei jedem "Einschalten" erneut durchgeführt.
Jul 19 13:33:56 <PaulFertser> ttyS3: is it possible you get more feedback by writing in English?
Jul 19 13:43:16 <ttyS3> PaulFertser: ohh. sorry. wrong channel. (this was not #openmoko-de) ;-)
Jul 19 13:45:39 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: it's been about a 32GB card that refused to work in funny ways. My suspicion been it takes the card too long to initialize on power-on
Jul 19 13:46:19 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: ttyS3 just confirmed the card manufacturer agrees on the basic property of larger cards taking longer to initialize
Jul 19 13:46:25 <DocScrutinizer> no surprise
Jul 19 13:46:36 <ttyS3> DocScrutinizer: thx, for translation. ;-)
Jul 19 13:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> seems ths mmc driver fails to read in the partition table on init
Jul 19 13:48:21 <DocScrutinizer> my idea been we might need a longer delay to let card initialize after power-on
Jul 19 13:48:42 <ttyS3> Maybe it's possible to use the card, if the card whould not disabled (if not used).
Jul 19 13:49:05 <ttyS3> yes. good idea.
Jul 19 13:49:07 <DocScrutinizer> nah, we need to fix the root cause which is delay on init
Jul 19 13:49:27 <DocScrutinizer> *probably* is...
Jul 19 13:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> there's no use in running a fdisk against the card each time the uSD VDD gets enabled
Jul 19 13:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> and to keep VDD enabled to avoid having to redo the whole botch
Jul 19 13:51:26 <DocScrutinizer> if driver fails to read in the partition table, then we need to find *why* and fix it
Jul 19 13:52:14 <DocScrutinizer> my bet is on changing/increasing the delay in driver, to give card enough time to initialize
Jul 19 13:52:35 <pabs3> is there no event fired when the card is ready?
Jul 19 13:53:01 <DocScrutinizer> also I'm not even sure if we really power down the uSD slot - probably during suspend we do though
Jul 19 13:53:54 <DocScrutinizer> pabs3: I do not know details, last time I looked into it was wheh that GPS+uSD issue came up
Jul 19 13:54:10 <DocScrutinizer> i.e several years ago
Jul 19 13:54:46 <DocScrutinizer> I know uSD is controlled on a IF that lives on glamo - bad enough
Jul 19 13:55:17 * pabs3 finds it weird to have uSD and GPU on one chip
Jul 19 13:55:39 <PaulFertser> pabs3: the devs needed SoC's sdio for the wifi module.
Jul 19 13:55:52 <DocScrutinizer> well, probably it's just great to playback media from uSD without using CPU to decode it
Jul 19 13:56:27 <pabs3> I guess mplayer/etc doesn't support that yet?
Jul 19 13:56:33 <DocScrutinizer> alas glamo is so braindamaged this probably just can not work in real life
Jul 19 13:57:17 <PaulFertser> pabs3: it doesn't, yes.
Jul 19 13:57:24 <DocScrutinizer> plus glamo has the powers to stop the CPU when it wants to talk to glamo
Jul 19 13:58:07 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: it's interesting that those 32Gb still work with other cardreaders... something seems to be wrong with our driver. If only larsc would find some time (and the card) to work on this...
Jul 19 13:58:12 <DocScrutinizer> which largely defeats the purpose of glamo offload of tasks all together
Jul 19 14:01:29 <DocScrutinizer> you can make glamo do some GFX for the CPU, but then when CPU wants to write some new bytes to glamo, for next position of that sprite or whatever, glamo tells via hw line "please wait, I'm using my memory so you can't", and CPU gets halted. lost battle
Jul 19 14:02:15 <DocScrutinizer> IIRC
Jul 19 14:03:11 <ttyS3> DocScrutinizer: but, glamo can say, when it is finished. or not?
Jul 19 14:03:16 <DocScrutinizer> for accessing uSD from CPU via glamo this is really nasty
Jul 19 14:05:19 <DocScrutinizer> ttyS3: glamo can do an IRQ on certain events I guess. That doesn't make it much better, as for e.g start of next frame glamo again will access own memory and CPU sits waiting on MEMHLT
Jul 19 14:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> and, as mentioned above, for uSD access from CPU via glamo things get really nasty, as that's not related to video in any way
Jul 19 14:06:28 <DocScrutinizer> logically unrelated
Jul 19 14:06:35 <DocScrutinizer> layering etc foo bar
Jul 19 14:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> I guess
Jul 19 14:06:45 * pabs3 pokes Sean about finding out if glamo NDAs expired with SMedia going away
Jul 19 14:07:15 <DocScrutinizer> ask larsc
Jul 19 14:10:55 <DocScrutinizer> pabs3: you'd think it should be moot now
Jul 19 14:11:52 <DocScrutinizer> also there usually has to be an expiry date in a NDA as you're not supposed to obey that contract to yur grave and your children inherit it
Jul 19 14:12:10 <DocScrutinizer> standard exoiry durations is some 3 to 5 yeras
Jul 19 14:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> if you want to go the path you suggested, you first have to find out who inherited SMedia's IP and contracts and patents et al
Jul 19 14:14:26 <pabs3> DocScrutinizer: yeah, I'm hoping so
Jul 19 14:16:07 <DocScrutinizer> then you have to find out if this successor in law of SMedia is able to fulfill the obligations of SMedia arising from the NDA contract, and if not then if that's rendering the contract moot
Jul 19 14:16:59 <pabs3> indeed, its a long shot but something to try in any case
Jul 19 14:17:19 <DocScrutinizer> I don't see anybody standing up and doing it
Jul 19 14:17:26 <DocScrutinizer> Sean? hahaha
Jul 19 14:18:28 <DocScrutinizer> sure, go and send him an email about it - don't miss to inform us about the answer :-D
Jul 19 14:21:57 <pabs3> yeah, definitely will report back
Jul 19 14:22:14 <pabs3> about 10 days ago he said he would try to dig up the NDAs
Jul 19 14:22:22 <pabs3> so I send a ping
Jul 19 14:24:20 <pabs3> I expect it will go similar to my Atheros pings (silence) :(
Jul 19 14:38:17 <DocScrutinizer> ooh he actually replied? :-D
Jul 19 14:39:46 <DocScrutinizer> maybe you should ask wolfspraul in #*devel
Jul 19 14:40:32 <DocScrutinizer> he has no access to OM internals anymore, but *might* recall details about the glamo deal, and where the contracts might be, how to find them etc
Jul 19 14:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> but I guess he won't bother about glamo
Jul 19 14:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> Weiss: could you at least share the exact filenames? :-D
Jul 19 14:42:10 <DocScrutinizer> iirc you should have access to that stuff
Jul 19 14:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> Weiss: so pabs3 could apply for a "NDA" with OM/Sean
Jul 19 14:44:50 <DocScrutinizer> pabs3: I think I even can find a standard NDA form to send to you, so you could sign it and send to Sean
Jul 19 14:44:55 <DocScrutinizer> if you're interested
Jul 19 14:45:32 <DocScrutinizer> OM standard NDA
Jul 19 14:46:20 <pabs3> lets try the NDA-less route for now, see what happens
Jul 19 14:46:26 <DocScrutinizer> k
Jul 19 14:48:44 <pabs3> DocScrutinizer: he replied quickly: "We did. It's in our lawyer's hands now. I'm hoping they get back to us soon. When they do I'll let you know."
Jul 19 14:49:01 <DocScrutinizer> wow
Jul 19 14:49:09 <DocScrutinizer> didn't expect *that*
Jul 19 14:50:40 <DocScrutinizer> didn't even know OM ever had a lawyer, even *plural* :-)
Jul 19 14:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> seems things changed a lot at OM since I left ;-)
Jul 19 14:51:20 <pabs3> I think his mail implies one lawyer
Jul 19 14:51:31 <DocScrutinizer> ooh yes, misread
Jul 19 14:52:11 <DocScrutinizer> though "they".. meh
Jul 19 14:52:57 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, a promising answer
Jul 19 14:53:12 <pabs3> we'll see
Jul 19 14:53:22 <DocScrutinizer> you wouldn't believe how much I love to see this crap opened finally
Jul 19 14:54:18 <DocScrutinizer> though it's guaranteed to not make your world a better place when opened :-)
Jul 19 14:54:36 <DocScrutinizer> wtf???? DocScrutinizer51 offline?
Jul 19 14:56:26 <ttyS3> :-)
Jul 19 14:57:12 <DocScrutinizer> HELL, my box is down
Jul 19 15:00:55 <DocScrutinizer> meh, hetzner routing borked
Jul 19 15:01:13 <DocScrutinizer>  16:55:01 up 96 days, 20:44,  2 users,
Jul 19 15:01:21 <gkwhc> can one view the NAND flash usage of a FR?
Jul 19 15:01:43 <DocScrutinizer> specify "usage"
Jul 19 15:02:17 <gkwhc> DocScrutinizer: how much the NAND flash is filled up
Jul 19 15:02:22 <zear> gkwhc, df?
Jul 19 15:02:24 <gkwhc> like df
Jul 19 15:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> df -h I guess
Jul 19 15:03:00 <gkwhc> would that be /dev/root?
Jul 19 15:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> in a "normal" system your / is on NAND
Jul 19 15:03:19 <gkwhc> i see
Jul 19 15:03:31 <gkwhc> thanks!
Jul 19 15:03:34 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Jul 19 15:05:05 <DocScrutinizer> mount should tell you details
Jul 19 15:05:30 <DocScrutinizer> NAND == /dev/mtd*
Jul 19 15:05:55 <DocScrutinizer> also jffs or ubifs
Jul 19 16:19:47 <michelem> hello folks
Jul 19 16:20:20 <michelem> I'm comparing with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_host#Providing_power_to_run_and_charge_the_Neo_while_in_host_mode
Jul 19 16:20:45 <michelem> apparently most of the /sys knobs have changed paths in my kernel (2.6.34)
Jul 19 16:21:08 <michelem> how can I find out how to shut down USB power, yet remain in host mode
Jul 19 16:21:11 <michelem> ?
Jul 19 16:22:33 <PaulFertser> michelem: hi
Jul 19 16:22:40 <PaulFertser> michelem: i suggest using omhacks
Jul 19 16:23:03 <michelem> im looking into that
Jul 19 16:23:24 <michelem> om usb mode host && om usb charger-mode charge-device
Jul 19 16:24:25 <PaulFertser> michelem: or (if you want to do it manually) find /sys -name power_on | grep usb
Jul 19 16:30:30 <michelem> I'm fiddling with a Y-cable
Jul 19 16:30:45 <michelem> I managed to get it work 5 minutes ago, but cannot reproduce it anymore
Jul 19 16:31:01 <PaulFertser> y-cable is cool, should work just fine.
Jul 19 16:36:34 <michelem> in kernel logs I get "Cannot enable port 2.  Maybe the USB cable is bad?"
Jul 19 16:36:43 <michelem> after a bunch of "unable to enumerate USB device on port 2"
Jul 19 16:36:58 <michelem> there is a plain usb stick attached
Jul 19 16:37:26 <PaulFertser> michelem: are you surely providing power to it?
Jul 19 16:38:00 <michelem> the green light on a device is on, but let me double check with tester
Jul 19 16:38:45 <michelem> also, cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/status says Charging @moko
Jul 19 16:51:27 <Linuxxr> hey doc , any hardware news?
Jul 19 18:10:02 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ping
Jul 19 18:10:04 <apt> ~pong
Jul 19 19:48:40 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs#GTA02_Kernel_sysfs_highlights_for_kernel_2.6.28
Jul 19 19:56:17 <DocScrutinizer> echo 500 >$(find /sys/class -name usb_curlim)  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Forcing_fast_charge_mode  -- adapt accordingly
Jul 19 19:58:23 <DocScrutinizer> it seems it's almost the recommended method that is sugested even by those kernel hackers that love to change sysfs filenames with each new kernel revision
Jul 19 19:59:07 <PaulFertser> I'd call omhacks package the recommended method :)
Jul 19 19:59:17 <DocScrutinizer> whatever that is
Jul 19 19:59:21 <DocScrutinizer> never heard of it
Jul 19 20:10:18 <DocScrutinizer> I seem to recall SHR settings dialog had a proper switch for hostmode at very least - should also have or get one for charging hostmode
Jul 19 20:12:28 <DocScrutinizer> note that recommended sequence is: enable normal hostmode, attach (externaly powered) peripheral, attach power wallwart to Y-cable, only then switch to charging hostmode
Jul 19 20:32:08 <b0rf> .
Jul 19 21:41:09 <gkwhc> anyone use debian on FR? im trying to apt-get install zhone and other fso files (install.sh didnt work so well), but it is telling me that the package is not availabel, but is referred to by another package, etc
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 20 02:59:57 2011