**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 05 02:59:56 2011 Aug 05 04:18:03 core/shr-full-20110727-om-gta02.rootfs.ubi Aug 05 04:18:21 ore/uImage-2.6.39-r1-oe4-om-gta02-20110607080325.bin Aug 05 04:34:21 linuxxr: whats the difference between ubi and jffs2 images? Aug 05 04:37:23 requires ubi Qi Aug 05 04:38:21 qi-s3c2442-1.0.2-r5+gitr0+c38b062a609f1442e6a9e13005cfbdfd59a5ac0d.udfu Aug 05 04:38:30 qi-ubi-s3c2442-1.0.2-r5+gitr0+c38b062a609f1442e6a9e13005cfbdfd59a5ac0d.udfu Aug 05 04:38:35 see Aug 05 04:39:10 that install didnt work Aug 05 04:44:51 http://www.at91.com/linux4sam/bin/view/Linux4SAM/FAQ_9x5 Aug 05 04:51:57 http://www.at91.com/linux4sam/bin/view/Linux4SAM/FAQ_9x5 Aug 05 04:52:09 i guess u know aLREADY Aug 05 04:54:13 have u used v35 qtmoko? Aug 05 04:59:46 nnnnkkk Aug 05 09:42:06 Hello. Aug 05 09:43:26 Is openmoko working on any htc, nokia or samsung phone? Aug 05 09:45:00 michaelis: htc g1, nokia n900, palm pre -- the work is ongoing. Aug 05 09:46:15 michaelis: check the SHR project. Aug 05 09:46:34 No low/midrange phones then? Aug 05 09:47:23 michaelis: like what? Aug 05 09:47:59 PaulFertser: Like something below $200. Aug 05 09:48:47 michaelis: openmoko freerunner would be the only choice then. Aug 05 09:49:08 And still the only really usable for a daily cellphone. Aug 05 09:49:17 Others are more WiP. Aug 05 09:50:18 PaulFertser: What I really need is just a cell phone and a digital organizer running FLOSS software. Aug 05 09:51:25 michaelis: then openmoko freerunner gta02. But it's gprs (no edge) only. Still the only real free software-supported cellphone. Aug 05 09:52:08 michaelis: for voice calls you need to have a buzzfixed version (or do the buzzfix yourself, it's moderately easy for anyone who can solder). Aug 05 09:53:05 PaulFertser: And where can I buy this phone? Aug 05 09:54:13 michaelis: e.g. pulster.de , http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributors Aug 05 09:57:01 michaelis: also golden delicious. Check the distri's websites, the prices and information on the openmoko wiki is outdated. Aug 05 09:58:24 PaulFertser: Maybe I'm forced to buy a cheap android phone, which gives me the shiverings, and wait untill the openmoko project is working properly on some other phones. Aug 05 10:02:46 PaulFertser: I wish I was able to contribute in some way. Bringing FLOSS software to the mobile market is crucial. Aug 05 10:10:11 michaelis: (cheap android) unfortunately, chances of proper support of some (random) android phone by free software stack are low. Aug 05 10:11:45 PaulFertser: Really? I was thinking that as long it has a Qualcomm chipset, which I'm guessing is fairly common, then all is well. Aug 05 10:15:33 michaelis: Qualcomm is such a PITA, morphis spent enormous time reverse-engineering the protocol (as part of his palm pre effort) and there're no guarantees it's not changing. Aug 05 10:16:31 michaelis: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Research_Pre_GSM_Modem_Protocol Aug 05 10:19:26 PaulFertser: PITA? Aug 05 10:19:39 Pain in the as? Aug 05 10:21:52 michaelis: yep Aug 05 10:24:21 PaulFertser: Sigh. Then I don't know what to buy. The Freerunner is to expensive. Maybe a non-smartphone cell phone with fairly good organizing capability, whichever that may be. Aug 05 10:25:52 michaelis: the freerunner is not expensive, check the current prices. Aug 05 10:26:02 michaelis: it is and always was among the cheapest smartphones on the market. Aug 05 10:26:11 michaelis: you can consider buying it used too. Aug 05 10:26:49 michaelis: as to the featurephones, i was quite satisfied with nokia 1100, it's damn sturdy and just works. And it can go on one charge for almost a week. Aug 05 10:30:32 PaulFertser: It's 200EUR for the Freerunner and that's much to me. And I want a digital organizer feature phone if any. Aug 05 10:33:59 michaelis: an alternative would be to buy some old PDA such as hx4700. It's still rather cool and has a larger screen and can be used as a portable player and is comfortable in other respects etc etc. Aug 05 10:37:38 PaulFertser: Can one sync it to the compute? Aug 05 10:37:49 I don't think you can get any smart phone below 200EUR, except with contract, but then you pay the same and more in monthly fees. Aug 05 10:38:24 (Well, at least in my country :) Aug 05 10:39:09 michaelis: if you install OE on it, it'll be just a regular GNU/Linux system, do whatever you want (syncml?); if you keep windows ce on it, it'll be windows ce, activesync etc. Aug 05 10:39:56 Sazius: The Samsung Galaxy Gio goes for 120EUR and then a monthly fee of 8.9EUR for the internet access. Aug 05 10:40:01 TBH, i'm not aware about the current state of support of PDAs by sane distros, i'd be glad if somebody chimes in and clarifies it. Aug 05 10:41:28 michaelis: OK, at least here in Finland such deals also entail being stuck with particular provider for 1-2 years... and here you can get unlimited internet data for 4,9EUR/month... Aug 05 10:41:59 Sazius: That sounds like a good deal, doesn't it? It's better than here in Sweden. Aug 05 10:42:25 PaulFertser: I'll check it out. Aug 05 10:45:10 michaelis: yeah, well it varies from provider to provider, of course, most providers are still 8-9 euros here Aug 05 10:48:03 my current provider has Gio too, seems to be free even, with apparently ~6 EUR/month... but then you're "slaves" to them for 2 years :P Aug 05 10:48:17 Sazius: I see. But being stuck 1-2 years isn't a big deal. Not much happens during those years. Aug 05 10:48:41 I don't like it on principle :) Aug 05 10:49:29 I used to own an iPhone when I started to be more conserned about software freedom issues, and I couldn't wait for my period to end :) Aug 05 10:49:47 fortunately I had only 1 year period then Aug 05 10:50:06 Sazius: I understand. I don't like android by principle. Aug 05 10:50:43 I too would like FLOSS software on my cell phone. That's why I haven't got any personal cell phone. Aug 05 10:51:06 I have a freerunner, but I use it mostly for GPS. Aug 05 10:54:41 Sazius: What is the difference between gprs and 3g? Aug 05 10:55:16 My day-to-day phone for SMS and calls is a 25EUR Samsung dumb-phone :) Aug 05 10:55:36 michaelis: well, gprs is slower than 3g :) Aug 05 10:56:28 biggest problem for me with the Freerunner was to find a distro that works without too much fuss :) Aug 05 10:57:41 I settled for QtMoko, which works OK, but if you expect something like a modern Android or iPhone you're going to be disappointed :) Aug 05 11:00:03 Sazius: Im not much for eye-candy and modernity. I want it plain and simple, stable and working. Aug 05 11:00:32 yeah, but stable and working might be problems as well :) Aug 05 11:00:50 Sazius: Really? Aug 05 11:01:50 I don't know about others in this channel, but I've always had some stability problems, even with QtMoko. Aug 05 11:02:02 Not severe, but some. Aug 05 11:02:45 Sazius: By the way, is there a GTKMoko? Aug 05 11:02:59 Moko based on GTK/GNOME? Aug 05 11:05:35 Hmm, not as far as I know. Aug 05 11:06:06 most popular distributions can be seen here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions Aug 05 11:06:43 of those I've tried SHR, Debian, QtMoko and Android Aug 05 11:08:53 Sazius: Then it's Debian for me, if I will ever afford the phone. Aug 05 11:09:30 Debian is cool, but quite a lot of work to set up. Aug 05 11:09:49 but then you get real debian :) Aug 05 11:10:56 Sazius: Debian is good, yes. And it's also one of the few distros, if not the only one, that calls it's distro GNU/Linux and that's important to me. Aug 05 11:12:23 Sazius: unlimited internet data? Even with tethering? Aug 05 11:13:27 Sazius: I have a Telenor dongle for my internet connectivity, 199 SEK / ~30USD a month with no binding period, and I've pushed up to 90 Gb a month without being throttled. Aug 05 11:15:11 xarragon: I have dongle with Tele2 for which I pay 169 SEK/month and for that I get 10GB free download and 6-7 Mb/s download speed. After that it's being throttled. Aug 05 11:17:48 My cell is so overloaded that I can't really use streaming video at evenings anyway, so bittorrent is the natural choice for me. Aug 05 11:20:34 michaelis: I've tried a Tele2 dongle as well, and they have much lighter load overall and better response, but that was on an unlimited pro plan. Aug 05 11:20:47 xarragon: I see. Aug 05 11:21:03 By the way, any automation engineers here? Aug 05 11:23:59 xarragon: well "unlimited", probably there is some limit, but I've never used it that heavily :) Aug 05 11:25:31 michaelis: yeah, like Debian too, it's my only operating system on my main computer Aug 05 11:45:31 Sazius: Yeah, I was deliberately pushing mine to see what happened. Aug 05 13:04:32 hi all. i am thinking to buy some phone, cause of bad call sound quality on my FR and death of original battery. Basically I want some thing where I can install debian and hack it as much as i want, and with HW keyboard. So wondering is N900 still best thing to buy? Aug 05 13:04:59 is fso usable on n900 now? Aug 05 13:06:27 (of course not taking n950 in account) Aug 05 13:10:50 * SpeedEvil looks at his 'your n950 has been shipped' email. Aug 05 13:10:58 More seriously. Aug 05 13:11:07 As I uderstand it - batteries may be on ebay. Aug 05 13:11:32 N900 has meego-ce, which is completely open-source Aug 05 13:11:41 I'm not sure if there is a debian image as such Aug 05 13:12:26 There is easy-debian of course. Aug 05 13:12:55 debian in a chroot Aug 05 13:16:32 i can find battery only on golden delicious, but i guess they will not send it here, even if they send price will be like $100, also i geuss they are quite old and not much better than mine old one Aug 05 13:16:56 Possibly - it was a while ago I last looke. Aug 05 13:17:39 Also - it's getting to the point where it's unlikely you'll be able to fin a n900 for sale neww, with warranty. Aug 05 13:17:44 If that matters to you. Aug 05 13:17:59 and now so many blond girls bought n900 and selling it so cheap Aug 05 13:18:58 Used ones seem to be going 120 to 180 quid on ebay Aug 05 13:19:11 Which isn't bad at all Aug 05 13:23:12 for $200 warranty doesn't matter Aug 05 13:23:42 but anyway, is n900 is still most open phone? Aug 05 13:24:22 REgrettably. Aug 05 13:24:44 (From the point of view of the market, I like mine) Aug 05 13:26:17 I've heard n900s have been getting traded for some other symbian phones in warranty replacements anyway :( Aug 05 13:27:32 Yes - n8 Aug 05 13:27:40 heh Aug 05 13:27:48 They're apparantly not getting new boards made. Aug 05 13:28:06 I hope the n9 comes out, so I can try my luck for a warranty replacement of the n900 Aug 05 13:28:26 comes out before November Aug 05 13:29:08 n9 without keyboard afair Aug 05 13:29:52 without keyboard better to wait gta04 :) Aug 05 13:30:37 why this strange guys not selling n950? Aug 05 13:31:20 Barking madness. Aug 05 13:31:26 Indeed. Aug 05 13:31:51 However, I have a somewhat broken n900 - cellmo is dodgy on 900MHz - and swapping it for a n9 might be useful. Aug 05 13:31:59 Especially if I have a n950 Aug 05 13:32:59 Ok, i'll make that blond girl happy and buy her n900 today... Aug 05 14:12:53 michaelis: are you interested in getting an Openmoko Freerunner? i am thinking of selling mine. where are you located? Aug 05 14:13:16 gkwhc: I'm located in Sweden. Aug 05 14:13:45 gkwhc: May I ask why you are selling? Aug 05 14:13:50 michaelis: oh cool! Im located in US Aug 05 14:14:41 michaelis: I want a smaller phone (not smartphone) :) Aug 05 14:15:01 gkwhc: I see. Aug 05 14:15:19 gkwhc: What do you want for it? Aug 05 14:16:39 michaelis: what do you think about 195 EU? Aug 05 14:17:09 comes with charging, adapters, headphones Aug 05 14:17:51 it looks pretty new as i havent used it much Aug 05 14:17:53 gkwhc: Maybe there's something I'm missing here but I can get a new one for 200 EUR. Aug 05 14:18:13 (throw away original headphones in advance) Aug 05 14:18:47 michaelis: oh really?! hmm, what did you have in mind? Aug 05 14:18:49 (ask which hw patches applied, buzzfix is must have) Aug 05 14:19:28 (#1024 fix is also extremly useful) Aug 05 14:21:18 gkwhc: What hw patches have you applied? Is there buzzfix? What about #1024 fix? Aug 05 14:21:33 pulster.de has new FR for 199 EUR Aug 05 14:23:44 michaelis: i have not touched the hardware in any way. as i said, i havent used it much. the FR has android on it atm and #1024 isnt a problem, probably because it disabled deep sleep Aug 05 14:24:48 gkwhc: Well, you must understand that I cannot buy the phone when I can get a new one for the same price. Aug 05 14:25:42 michaelis: i understand, so thats why i was asking what you had in mind. Aug 05 14:26:26 gkwhc: To be honest I don't know. I have to go now because I have quit work but I'll get back to you some other day, if you haven't sold it by then. Aug 05 14:26:46 michaelis: no problem. bye! Aug 05 14:26:48 I'll have to think about it. Aug 05 14:26:53 sure thing Aug 05 14:26:55 Bye and thanks for the offer. Aug 05 14:27:00 :) Aug 05 15:12:10 in shr how can i start contacts or dialer from command line? Aug 05 15:24:47 chomwitt: iirc phoneui-dialer Aug 05 15:24:55 well thats in debian Aug 05 15:48:05 hrmpf Aug 05 15:49:03 what can be wrong when my debugboard's serial port tries to do TX with about 1V only? Aug 05 18:22:15 hi Aug 05 22:03:51 hi ppl Aug 05 22:43:16 the platin of the freerunner is somehow big... but theres no simular device like it -.- Aug 05 23:16:00 N900 is about it. Aug 05 23:16:04 At the moment. Aug 05 23:16:26 GTA04 in the nearish future ideally. Aug 05 23:16:41 There is nothing else as open on the horizon. Aug 05 23:18:41 hm ya... Aug 05 23:25:03 lol this bug labs handys... too big and ugly xD Aug 05 23:27:13 f##k! so i have to solder mini-usb in advance on my 'new' n900?.. Why in hell it can't accept hex wifi PSK??? Aug 05 23:27:38 o.o Aug 05 23:28:04 why in hell you using hex wifi psk :P Aug 05 23:28:19 cause this is only way to have secure wifi Aug 05 23:28:29 ~usbfix Aug 05 23:28:30 Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< Aug 05 23:28:37 rofl Aug 05 23:29:05 micro-usb! Aug 05 23:29:34 and wtf is hex more secure than a simple ascii passphrase? Aug 05 23:29:43 Because it is Aug 05 23:30:03 Passphrases with limited length have a constrained entropy Aug 05 23:30:11 meh Aug 05 23:30:31 Allowing hex too doubles or more the entropy per bit Aug 05 23:31:26 maybe per byte Aug 05 23:33:14 anyway I don't think it's a difference if you need 10^7 or 10^11 years to run a succeeding brute force attack Aug 05 23:34:42 passphrases can also allow rainbow tables. Aug 05 23:34:44 the aliens would brute force your password in seconds xD Aug 05 23:35:00 and copying the 64digit hex key via internet and web browser as it's too complex to copy it manually, well I think that more than compensates for any "added security" by such a complex key Aug 05 23:35:16 never forget to wear your aluminium helmet :P Aug 05 23:35:37 Abyssum: indeed Aug 05 23:36:42 There are also logging threats. Aug 05 23:37:02 Of people randomly who go round logging your data, and then accidentally lose it. Aug 05 23:37:17 for sure and they will sell it to the pentagon Aug 05 23:37:20 yeah and all of this gets cured by copying a 64hex key via brwoser and internet Aug 05 23:37:30 Which increasing technological advancement and CPU ... Aug 05 23:37:47 SpeedEvil: please stop kidding us :-D Aug 05 23:37:51 and never use a cellphone... we are not alone xD Aug 05 23:37:59 cellphone Aug 05 23:38:02 ehh Aug 05 23:38:26 sharing your location with goverment Aug 05 23:38:31 lol Aug 05 23:38:52 stop using phone (sharing your talks with goverment) Aug 05 23:38:57 SpeedEvil: sorry my calculator failed to evaluate the size of a rainbow table for 26^32 Aug 05 23:39:15 and that was only for lower case characters Aug 05 23:39:51 for a key consisting only of lowercase and length 32char Aug 05 23:40:01 BWAHAHAHA Aug 05 23:40:02 stop talking because your friend may work for goverment Aug 05 23:40:14 and why should someone be interested in your data... Aug 05 23:40:28 why should it be open for everyone? Aug 05 23:40:31 An english passphrase is not 26^32 Aug 05 23:40:35 to see your porn cause hes lonelier than you are? xD Aug 05 23:41:06 SpeedEvil: please stop nitpicking! Aug 05 23:41:21 i can give you simple reason Aug 05 23:41:29 the original question was "why the f*ck do you need 64hex key?" Aug 05 23:41:50 imagine someone connecting your wifi and breaking few bank accounts. Aug 05 23:42:14 More simple solution. Aug 05 23:42:19 woho this can be in usa maybe :P Aug 05 23:42:26 but in switzerland never xD Aug 05 23:42:29 You already have a hex key set on other devices. Aug 05 23:42:50 lol Aug 05 23:42:51 MEH Aug 05 23:42:58 SpeedEvil, buy a girlfriend :P Aug 05 23:44:17 I can't find the right category on ebay. Aug 05 23:44:18 honestly a 14 random ascii key is just save enough, even for CIA and NSA Aug 05 23:44:53 SpeedEvil, you have to use the thai-version of ebay xD Aug 05 23:45:20 as in "it's WAY SIMPLER to penetrate the system by other means than to crack the key" Aug 05 23:45:42 hey guys i were talking about serious issues :) Aug 05 23:46:02 and copying the key via browser, sorry I stll gasp Aug 05 23:46:09 lol Aug 05 23:46:12 from laughing Aug 05 23:46:41 And a 14 random ascii key assumes a sensible underlying algorithm. Not WEP forex Aug 05 23:46:54 WTF? Aug 05 23:47:23 how would you even USE a 64hex key on WEP?? And HOW THE F*CK would that help? Aug 05 23:47:37 Well - you can use a 26 hex Aug 05 23:47:38 wep xD Aug 05 23:47:41 As I did. Aug 05 23:47:43 cracked in seconds :P Aug 05 23:50:15 puh... Aug 05 23:50:20 cant stop laughing :P Aug 05 23:51:36 Abyssum: killing you now! ;-P Aug 05 23:51:47 >>I just bought one, and want to setup wifi password, it's a 64 characters and seem i can't enter it without mistakes :) so, i push it into file into web. question is - it has no wget, how to paste contents of file from web into clipboard with default installation?<< Aug 05 23:52:30 lol Aug 05 23:53:13 i sense doc here Aug 05 23:53:27 let's look into logs... Aug 05 23:54:25 you better don't lookinto logs, to work around your own /ignore settings! :-P Aug 05 23:54:29 ahehe, yes doc, i thought i am doing mistakes in my wifi password, but actually it is just not possible to enter it at all Aug 05 23:55:30 so, i found this very funny procedure: http://micxer.de/blog/archives/42-How-to-use-your-existing-HEX-key-for-WPA2.html which involve xml generation Aug 05 23:56:41 lol Aug 05 23:57:03 stop using hex keys and start living as humans :P Aug 05 23:57:34 ok, now i can have fun to see your wrinting again Aug 06 00:05:21 hm im still searching for a really small mobile device... Aug 06 00:06:15 in GTA02 trying to boot with Qi the SHR in the first partition (i marked it as bootable with gparted) AUX turns on fow 5 sec and then neo turns off again with no que in the screen as what is happening.. Aug 06 00:06:37 ..in the first partition of my microsd card.. Aug 06 00:08:05 qi is made for extrasenses, because you have (almost) no way to see kernel logs without debug board. Aug 06 00:09:23 :-O Aug 06 00:09:43 good qi paranormalist will always tell you what's going on Aug 06 00:10:15 thanks Aug 06 00:28:25 maybe try NOR uBoot? aah no, that one prolly doesn't know how to boot from uSD Aug 06 00:29:58 or try nand u-boot Aug 06 00:29:59 ... Aug 06 00:30:23 and have a good night anyway Aug 06 00:38:28 whats the diff between qi-ubi-xxx and qi-s3c2442-1... ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 06 02:59:57 2011