**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 26 02:59:56 2011
Dec 26 08:32:42 <eliasp> hi
Dec 26 08:33:47 <eliasp> I just decided to revive my old GTA02 for some OSM mapping... does anyone else use the GTA02 for mapping? which software and which distribution would you recommend? it seems, SHR is the most popular distribution, but development halted more or less more than a year ago...
Dec 26 09:11:41 <Wonka> eliasp: I used a quite old SHR with tangoGPS for mapping
Dec 26 09:12:01 <eliasp> Wonka: ok, I'll give this a try
Dec 26 09:12:23 <Wonka> eliasp: if I wanted to get back into mapping today, I'd probably try to get debian running with foxtrotGPS
Dec 26 09:12:28 <eliasp> now just need to find out why my GTA02 doesn't boot anymore... can't even load the bootloader, it just stays black ;(
Dec 26 09:12:36 <Wonka> ow.
Dec 26 09:12:40 <eliasp> Wonka: oh, never looked at foxtrotGPS.... let's see
Dec 26 09:12:53 <Wonka> eliasp: there even is a debian package
Dec 26 09:13:19 <eliasp> my GTA02 was powered off for 18 months... probably the "full discharge" bug I ran into with my first GTA02
Dec 26 09:13:19 <Wonka> but be prepared to have a mintyboost or something like that...
Dec 26 09:14:11 <eliasp> Wonka: yes, thought about building one anyways.... got a load of rechargable batteries, still need the USB connector... 
Dec 26 09:14:56 <Wonka> I'd like to have some small uC that does USB host...
Dec 26 09:15:17 <Wonka> and allows the profile with the biggest possible power usage...
Dec 26 09:18:06 <eliasp> Wonka: hmm, that'd be cool... don't know, whether such a mintyboost-hack exists
Dec 26 09:18:18 <Wonka> me neither
Dec 26 09:25:26 <eliasp> Wonka: it boots now, using the high-voltage charger of my HP Touchpad
Dec 26 09:27:31 <aloniv> Hello. Does anyone know how to use mplayer with glamo via SSH? 
Dec 26 09:31:22 <Wonka> eliasp: HV? what kind of HV?
Dec 26 09:32:23 <eliasp> Wonka: it's an HP USB power supply with 5.3V 2.0A
Dec 26 09:32:54 <eliasp> obviously a little more, than the regular USB power supply which I already had for my Pre3 as the Touchpad refuses to charge on the old power supply
Dec 26 09:36:53 <eliasp> Wonka: hm, seems like there's no proper way to install Debian without already having SHR installed ;(
Dec 26 09:38:02 <eliasp> ok, more or less any distribution will do... 
Dec 26 11:21:15 <DocScrutinizer> eliasp: you stored it for 18 months with battery inserted? Then definitely your battery is dead
Dec 26 11:22:03 <eliasp> DocScrutinizer: discharged: yes, charging again: yes... I run now on battery again after charging it for 2 hours... now just need to find out why QtMoko doesn't mount its rootfs
Dec 26 11:22:04 <DocScrutinizer> as dead as it can get - you should try to find an electronics hacker who can swap the LiIon cell in the battery
Dec 26 11:22:29 <DocScrutinizer> duh, battery survivied THAT? :-o
Dec 26 11:22:33 <eliasp> yes ;)
Dec 26 11:22:53 <DocScrutinizer> incredible, we built some really awesome hardware bacj when :-D
Dec 26 11:23:15 <eliasp> hehe, yes you did! ;)
Dec 26 11:23:57 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless I guess your LiIon cell has lost lots of its original capacity
Dec 26 11:24:19 <eliasp> probably yes... I'll test this the next days, in the worst case, I'll get a replacement
Dec 26 11:24:51 <DocScrutinizer> luckily it's a smart battery so you can do a full learning cycle and then read out the real current capacity it provides
Dec 26 11:24:56 <eliasp> I also have a charger which does a really great job in refreshing old batteries... but unfortunately it works only with AA and AAA
Dec 26 11:25:12 <eliasp> DocScrutinizer: ah, great... is there a howto on doing this in the Wiki?
Dec 26 11:25:22 <DocScrutinizer> you must not "refresh" LiIon cells!
Dec 26 11:25:31 <DocScrutinizer> sure there is
Dec 26 11:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> well kinda
Dec 26 11:25:40 <eliasp> ok, don't know that much about Lilon specifics
Dec 26 11:25:59 <DocScrutinizer> LiIon *hates* getting stored when discharged
Dec 26 11:26:22 <DocScrutinizer> and there's no way to "condition" LiIon cells
Dec 26 11:26:26 <eliasp> so best is charging it every now and then when storing it...
Dec 26 11:26:27 <eliasp> ok
Dec 26 11:26:35 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly
Dec 26 11:27:04 <DocScrutinizer> that'S exactly what I usually do every 3..7 months and should do right now again
Dec 26 11:27:48 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers
Dec 26 11:27:54 <eliasp> DocScrutinizer: thx a lot
Dec 26 11:28:02 <DocScrutinizer> and my script on people.openmoko.org
Dec 26 11:28:49 <DocScrutinizer> I refined it for new kernels and more detailed output, and also it works on N900 too now - which probably doesn't matter much to you :-)
Dec 26 11:29:24 <eliasp> DocScrutinizer: haven't got a N900, but a friend of mine surely loves this information... thank you ;)
Dec 26 11:29:28 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail2
Dec 26 11:30:09 <eliasp> DocScrutinizer: so if you're running a N900, you probably no a little more about the current status of Mer on GTA02, do you?
Dec 26 11:30:24 <eliasp> will Mer be available for GTA02?
Dec 26 11:31:48 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not sure if there's a decent wikipage describing how to do a proper full learning cycle: it's simply a full charge-dischargeTo0-charge cycle, and after that your capacity as shown in LastMeasuredDischarge of bq27k-detail should give you a somewhat accurate idea of state of your cell
Dec 26 11:32:23 <DocScrutinizer> mer? probably not. Seems stskeeps is not even supporting N900 any more, for mer-reborn
Dec 26 11:33:03 <DocScrutinizer> but I suggest you do a /join #mer and ask stskeeps directly ;-)
Dec 26 11:34:49 <eliasp> DocScrutinizer: ok, will do this next night, thank you
Dec 26 11:35:33 <DocScrutinizer> (LMD) the chip sometimes needs several learning cycles to adapt to a drastically changed capacity, so you should check (and store to a file) the results from bq27k-detail before and after learning cycle, and compare, and maybe you need to do another one and see if the last one and second last one differ
Dec 26 11:35:43 <eliasp> ok
Dec 26 11:37:59 <DocScrutinizer> and a general advice: better you chage your battery prior to stowing away device for periods of weeks or even months, and also it's wise to remove the battery from the device (applies to *all* electronic units with battery power)
Dec 26 11:38:12 <DocScrutinizer> charge*
Dec 26 11:40:12 <eliasp> yes, in this case, the GTA02 just got more or less "lost" in my storage room... my 1st broke and when I got the replacement, I charged it once and forgot about it... now I "rediscovered" it while doing a X-Mas cleanup ;)
Dec 26 11:43:09 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, if you ever find a gta02 battery's cell gone dead - it's probably wise to refurbish it with a new cell revamped from a Nokia BL-5C rather than discarding the smart bq27000 chip in BTA02 battery and go for a dumb BL-5C as replacement
Dec 26 11:45:50 <DocScrutinizer> I guess there are "accumulator battery service center shops" in every but the smallest towns now, usually they service laptop batteries and powertools batteries, they should be well suited to do a GTA02-battery resurrection with a cell from a Nokia battery
Dec 26 11:47:36 <DocScrutinizer> if you successfully built a AM-radio when you were 14 years old, you for sure can do this DIY
Dec 26 11:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> it's basically not any more complex than repairing a headset cable where the plug broke, or sth like that. Basic soldering skills and a bit of talent with handling tools in general should suffice
Dec 26 11:49:54 <eliasp> ok, then I'll surely get this done ;)
Dec 26 11:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> just one absolutely important advice: never solder directly on the cell's body, rather cut the wires of donor battery's cell some 10..20mm away from cell's body
Dec 26 11:51:25 <eliasp> sure, I wouldn't want to expose the battery to the heat of the soldering iron ;)
Dec 26 11:51:39 <DocScrutinizer> the cell NEVER must heat up, it will brak and even may "explode" when heated to >80°C, even when only heated on a spot
Dec 26 11:51:58 <DocScrutinizer> break*
Dec 26 11:53:21 <DocScrutinizer> doing the operation when cell is discharged is a wise precautionary measure
Dec 26 11:54:30 <DocScrutinizer> where "discharged" means cell voltage <3.7V - never completely discharge a LiIon cell to 0V, it may "explode"
Dec 26 11:56:18 <DocScrutinizer> that's why every battery has a protection circuit that stops discharge @ 3 or maybe 2.5V
Dec 26 11:56:47 <eliasp> ok
Dec 26 11:56:47 <eliasp> I've probably just learned more about (dis)charging batteries than in my whole life before ;9
Dec 26 11:57:08 <DocScrutinizer> well, every smartphone battery. Not all many 16450 have such a circuit
Dec 26 11:57:28 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Dec 26 11:57:49 <DocScrutinizer> I'm always pleased to hear that, it makes me feel less useless
Dec 26 12:01:03 <eliasp> how do I flash the uBoot env using this settings? http://bsdmn.com/openmoko/uboot/config/environment.in  simply by using dfu-util and writing to u-boot_env?
Dec 26 12:38:08 <DocScrutinizer> uBoot env are set and stored via uBoot console. You have to use a serial terminal program like minicom to access uBoot console via ttyUSB
Dec 26 12:38:44 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i think it's possible to flash the whole env via DFU too.
Dec 26 12:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> yep, should be possible, but I wouldn't know how to prepare an image with custom env vars set
Dec 26 12:39:53 <DocScrutinizer> unless you got a master mtdpart to copy
Dec 26 12:40:22 <DocScrutinizer> maybe there are tools to set env vars "offline"
Dec 26 12:40:38 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: hi btw :-D
Dec 26 12:44:14 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: hey :)
Dec 26 13:35:47 <eliasp> PaulFertser: DocScrutinizer: ok, thx... I knew how to use the serial uBoot console, but thought there probably was an easier/more straightforward way... doing it now manually on the serial console
Dec 26 13:38:48 <PaulFertser> eliasp: i personally prefer Qi
Dec 26 13:39:59 <eliasp> me too, but there was a ML thread referring to Qtopia/Qi boot issues, which suggested, that Qi didn't successfull boot because it read some env-vars from the previous uBoot env-vars
Dec 26 13:40:08 <eliasp> so I wanted to reset uBoot completely to the default state
Dec 26 13:50:06 <eliasp> using now another Qi version and it seems to work now...
Dec 26 13:53:13 <PaulFertser> eliasp: Qi doesn't ever read any env veriables.
Dec 26 13:53:55 <eliasp> ok
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 27 02:59:56 2011