**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 17 02:59:58 2016 Aug 17 13:42:33 i bought a openmoko to run 100% free software on it. Where can i get the fully free baseband for ti-calypso from? I only see this page here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_GSM_Firmware Aug 17 13:46:28 There is a project called Osmocom that develops free baseband. Their free baseband is called OsmocomBB and it supports Neo FreeRunner. The website is http://osmocom.org/projects/baseband. Aug 17 13:53:35 JiiKoo: what have happened with this project? https://www.freecalypso.org/freerunner.html Aug 17 13:57:32 I don't know. I'm not very familiar with these projects. Aug 17 13:57:50 But there seems to be activity: https://www.freecalypso.org/pipermail/community Aug 17 13:58:27 https://www.freecalypso.org/pipermail/community/2016-June/000224.html seems to be active ☺ Aug 17 13:59:03 So apparently there are two choices, FreeCalypso and Osmocom Aug 17 14:01:06 the baseband part does not depend on the firmware itself? I can run SHR, ... , with each free baseband? Aug 17 14:04:10 Is there any active development on any gui-firmware? SHR is the latest? Aug 17 14:04:47 I guess that it doesn't depend on the operating system, but I'm not sure Aug 17 14:06:23 what baseband did you use? Does it support normal, modern A5/3 encryption? Aug 17 14:06:23 FreeCalypso is not free firmware, it's based on illegally leaked sources. Aug 17 14:07:07 aijs, I'm using the default firmware, I don't know what it supports Aug 17 14:07:10 I just got this phone too Aug 17 14:08:05 how many GTA01 have been build? I have never seen one physically. Aug 17 14:10:16 how can i create a username for the wiki? Aug 17 14:10:33 and when would the wiki/whole server switch to https? Aug 17 14:10:53 aijs, 10 000 GTA02 have been built but there doesn't seem to be information about GTA01 manufacturing Aug 17 14:11:17 The project is essentially dead, the community is spread out, why care about switching to https? Aug 17 14:11:53 PaulFertser: because i dont want that someone can inject malicious code into my http traffic when i browse the wiki Aug 17 14:13:25 aijs: well, that's understandable... Aug 17 14:15:37 JiiKoo: did you know how the hardware revisions split those 10000 ? Aug 17 14:16:21 for exampe how many GTA02-A7++ have been produced? Aug 17 14:16:38 aijs, nope, not specified Aug 17 14:16:44 here is the source: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2103754 Aug 17 14:18:32 10000 on 01.2009. Maybe more until end... Aug 17 14:20:48 yeah, maybe Aug 17 14:22:11 PaulFertser: have you used freecalypso(opensource) or osmocom(FLOSS) as a replacement? What are your results? Aug 17 14:25:38 aijs: freecalypso should be about the same as stock firmware. osmocom is not really usable for a phone, it's great for experiments with GSM. I have used neither. Aug 17 14:26:11 does the upstream u-boot support the openmoko without patches? Aug 17 14:27:15 I can't tell as I use Qi. Aug 17 14:29:54 When i flash a bad bootloader, did i have to open up the device and have to (in worst case) solder on the PCB? Aug 17 14:31:41 i have read about devirginator but does it really work when there is no bootloader any more on the device? Aug 17 14:32:23 There are two bootloaders, one in flash memory and one in a little read-only-memory as a backup. Aug 17 14:32:37 So it's hard to brick. Aug 17 14:33:46 JiiKoo: ah, nice. Just as a note: the best solution i think have the BBB(beagle bone black). When you press a button the ASIC search for a bootloader on the sd-card - unbrickable :) Aug 17 14:34:10 cool Aug 17 14:34:55 PaulFertser, how/why is OsmocomBB not really usable for a phone? Aug 17 14:35:43 aijs: you can always reflash gta02 because NOR bootloader is not easy to damage. Aug 17 14:36:26 JiiKoo: it's not implementing all of the GSM stack on Calypso itself Aug 17 14:36:54 PaulFertser: why did the people here use a second bootloader when there is already a bootloader in the device? Aug 17 14:37:14 aijs, there are two by default Aug 17 14:37:30 JiiKoo: cant you just remove the second? Aug 17 14:37:39 yes Aug 17 14:37:40 aijs: the one in NOR flash is old and buggy. But works ok to reflash NAND bootloader. Aug 17 14:40:58 this is the latest SHR binary available? http://build.shr-project.org/shr-core-staging/141/images/om-gta02/ Aug 17 14:40:59 PaulFertser, so how does not implementing all of the GSM stack affect performance practically? Aug 17 14:41:16 like the most common problems Aug 17 14:41:54 JiiKoo: I think nobody even tried using OsmocomBB on gta02 for a regular cellphone function. Aug 17 14:42:12 JiiKoo: and it would drain battery like mad Aug 17 14:42:32 PaulFertser, why the drain? Aug 17 14:42:43 Arent the binary images signed Aug 17 14:43:03 and without https - i cant prove what i am getting. it could be anything ... Aug 17 14:43:07 JiiKoo: optimised firmware running on calypso while main SoC is sleeping vs. research prototypes running on SoC all the time. Aug 17 14:43:29 aijs: regarding SHR, you'll have to wait for someone from SHR to answer. Aug 17 14:43:45 PaulFertser: what OS are you using? Aug 17 14:44:07 does any OS for openmoko have active development? Aug 17 14:44:08 aijs: I'm using plain Debian + FSO2/Cornucopia + Emacs FSO UI + Xmonad. Aug 17 14:44:14 I do not think so Aug 17 14:44:22 The most usable currently is QtMoko afaik. Aug 17 14:45:37 as openmoko runn on 100% free drivers - why is the kernel 2.x.x and not 4. ? Aug 17 14:46:47 " 99% of the credit for this release goes to Paul Ferster. He managed to find the suspend/resume problem and finally after years we have stable kernel. Many thanks!" Aug 17 14:47:16 nice, so you can probably answer the question with why kernel 2.6 and not 4.x :) Aug 17 14:50:04 aijs: heh, just nobody was interested to move the port forward anymore. My motivation vanished along with the community, and my own device worked okish by that time. Aug 17 14:52:48 the "Debian + FSO2/Cornucopia + Emacs FSO UI + Xmonad" setup run already a new kernel and updates the kernel from time to time with new debian releases? Aug 17 14:53:13 aijs: nope, using old debian with old kernel :( Aug 17 14:53:30 Well, I upgrade packages sometimes but not init system etc. Aug 17 14:57:05 this talk today seems to get the longest conversation for a day in 2016 :D http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ Aug 17 15:00:18 what i did not understand technically is why openmoko support max 16gb of micro-sdhc. Normally when the sd-chip support sdhc you can go up to 200gb(max possible at the moment). sdxc only mean other file system (exfat vs fat32) Aug 17 15:00:30 why does openmoko stop at 16gb? Aug 17 15:06:10 the internal memory of the openmoko have as known just few MB of space. How fast is the sd-chipset? Have someone tested a sandisk extreme pro micro-sd card with its 95MB/s read and 90MB/s write? Is there then any speed difference? Aug 17 15:07:16 because then you can just use the internal nand for bootloader and nothing else. Whole OS on the sd-card Aug 17 15:09:44 Qi seems to already load from mirco-sd only: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi Aug 17 15:10:10 are there any benchmarks of the speed of the internal memory vs really fast micro-sd ? Aug 17 15:10:21 Yep, it's possible to have the operating system on the memory card Aug 17 15:11:24 Those benchmarks would be interesting Aug 17 15:12:35 nax speed of the SD card is quite low. It's an issue of the electrical interface Aug 17 15:12:52 still faster than the flash though Aug 17 15:14:49 larsc: the internal 256MB NAND flash memory is already slower then (older) micro-sd cards? Aug 17 15:14:58 I think Aug 17 15:15:28 the problem with the SD card is that it is not connected to the SoC, but to an external companion chip Aug 17 15:15:50 and this companion chip is connected via a slow 16-bit interface Aug 17 15:16:08 and also takes care of the screen Aug 17 15:16:19 so you have to share bandwidth between SD and framebuffer Aug 17 15:16:30 -.- Aug 17 15:17:03 did you know the reason for this 16GB limit? Aug 17 15:17:51 limitation of the companion chip, I guess Aug 17 15:18:09 at 16gb the addressing scheme changes Aug 17 15:18:14 and you need support for the new one Aug 17 15:21:04 and this is part of the ASIC and not part of a firmware? New micro-sd cards releases now some times with lowest version at 32gb. So slowly the smaller cards are running out Aug 17 15:22:12 you also cant address just 16gb of a 32gb card as a solution? Aug 17 15:22:45 I believe it needs hardware support Aug 17 15:23:08 Probably "glamo" (that media decelerator) runs some firmware internally, who knows. It's not likely you can anyhow affect it. Aug 17 15:24:18 it is unfortunately bad hardware design Aug 17 15:24:47 That said, I'd be surprised if 16Gb SDHC would use different addressing scheme from a 32Gb SDHC. Aug 17 15:26:06 did someone know if you can still buy ti-calypso chips from texas instruments? Aug 17 15:26:15 GB rather Aug 17 15:26:25 GB? Aug 17 15:26:40 aijs: that was complicated even during the times Openmoko needed that for gta02 production. Aug 17 15:26:51 GigaBytes Aug 17 15:27:53 how much would it cost to buy up the whole ti-calypso platform from ti to produce everything by ourself... Aug 17 15:28:13 I think that's just impossible, TI won't sell. Aug 17 15:28:58 tp-link also didnt sell the things you need for production from devices that are not build any more and i dont understand why. Aug 17 15:30:55 aijs: freecalypso person is trying to build his own hardware Aug 17 15:31:27 yes, i have heard from Aug 17 15:32:37 he is "das signal"? Aug 17 15:34:17 or Spacefalcon ? Aug 17 15:53:49 ok, i find it out Aug 17 18:46:45 spacefalcon sounds about right **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 18 02:59:58 2016