**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 27 02:59:59 2016
Nov 27 20:16:58 <knothurtback> hi
Nov 27 20:17:15 <knothurtback> Does Openmoko have a feature that allows a phone to be remotely turned on?
Nov 27 20:27:02 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: yes
Nov 27 20:27:16 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: log in via ssh and use "shutdown -p now" or "poweroff".
Nov 27 20:27:28 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: like most other GNU/Linux systems out there.
Nov 27 20:28:16 <knothurtback> PaulFertser: the phone has a differ stack than most phones?
Nov 27 20:28:25 <knothurtback> It cant be turned on remotely like how feds do it?
Nov 27 20:28:37 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: oh, you mean turned on, not turned off
Nov 27 20:28:39 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: sorry
Nov 27 20:29:08 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: I think you might want to take a look at http://neo900.org
Nov 27 20:29:20 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: old openmoko phones can't be turned on remotely too, of course.
Nov 27 20:29:29 <knothurtback> really
Nov 27 20:29:32 <knothurtback> why
Nov 27 20:29:32 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: the hardware schematics are available and it's just impossible.
Nov 27 20:29:38 <knothurtback> are you serious
Nov 27 20:29:43 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: yes
Nov 27 20:29:50 <knothurtback> then why is it taking neo900 super big bucks to redo it all
Nov 27 20:29:57 <knothurtback> as it seems thats the only modern phone that will be setup like that
Nov 27 20:30:07 <knothurtback> but most of the money is not in design eg. color, or keyboard, or screen
Nov 27 20:30:10 <knothurtback> but this feature im talking about
Nov 27 20:30:14 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: they're doing much more than gta02 had to offer.
Nov 27 20:30:19 <knothurtback> no remote turn on, as a result from the stack 
Nov 27 20:30:20 <knothurtback> new stack
Nov 27 20:30:25 <knothurtback> hmmm
Nov 27 20:30:27 <knothurtback> fuck
Nov 27 20:30:38 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: there's hardware. If the part is not powered, it can't be turned on, anyhow.
Nov 27 20:30:43 <knothurtback> can old open moko phones
Nov 27 20:30:51 <knothurtback> be bought or sent to small china factory
Nov 27 20:30:53 <knothurtback> for small run
Nov 27 20:30:59 <knothurtback> or only if im super rich lol
Nov 27 20:31:22 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: the problem is with sourcing of old chips. Producing a PCB is not a problem.
Nov 27 20:31:45 <knothurtback> old chips for the modem or video and other stuff
Nov 27 20:31:48 <knothurtback> this sucks man
Nov 27 20:31:50 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: in fact, it's pretty easy with most phones, just take off the battery and the device won't be able to turn on anyhow, including remotely.
Nov 27 20:32:02 <knothurtback> no
Nov 27 20:32:05 <knothurtback> with battery out too
Nov 27 20:32:08 <knothurtback> it can be turned on
Nov 27 20:32:13 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: proof or gtfo
Nov 27 20:32:14 <knothurtback> since dumphones in 2001?
Nov 27 20:32:32 <knothurtback> https://www.cnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/
Nov 27 20:32:43 <PaulFertser> reading
Nov 27 20:33:45 <knothurtback> inhibition has been lost
Nov 27 20:33:52 <knothurtback> fuck the linux communityt for letting this phone die
Nov 27 20:34:00 <knothurtback> fuck android fanboys even more
Nov 27 20:34:15 <knothurtback> for not getting even these chinese assholes making $$$$ to do a budget phone that cant be turned on remotel
Nov 27 20:34:30 <knothurtback> now where are we 10 years later, neo900 will be 550 bucks almost
Nov 27 20:34:31 <knothurtback> wtf
Nov 27 20:34:47 <knothurtback> -end rant
Nov 27 20:35:22 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: where does it say it can work with battery removed?
Nov 27 20:36:05 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: i'm still using my gta02. But I agree, it's the lack of community interest that resulted in it being discontinued.
Nov 27 20:36:29 <knothurtback> I forget 
Nov 27 20:36:42 <knothurtback> the point is PaulFertser ...why the f am i going to be ok
Nov 27 20:36:43 <knothurtback> with taking the battery out dude
Nov 27 20:36:48 <knothurtback> wtf...then the phone is useless
Nov 27 20:36:49 <knothurtback> lol
Nov 27 20:36:52 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: radio transmission needs power. If you remove the power source, then it's the end of transmission.
Nov 27 20:37:00 <knothurtback> yes i understand
Nov 27 20:37:10 <knothurtback> what im treying to say is why does it cost BOOKOO bucks
Nov 27 20:37:17 <knothurtback> to make schematics where modem cant be turned on remotely
Nov 27 20:37:23 <knothurtback> no psuedo power off?
Nov 27 20:37:26 <knothurtback> or whatever the term is
Nov 27 20:37:47 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: designing any smartphone costs plenty of money, unfortunately.
Nov 27 20:38:20 <knothurtback> why are the stacks not modular where community can source that one asshole part
Nov 27 20:38:24 <knothurtback> that is different 
Nov 27 20:38:31 <knothurtback> the modem or whatever
Nov 27 20:38:51 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: I can imagine a malware that just sets an alarm to wake up every 30 minutes and to connect to C&C to check if it's the time to start listening.
Nov 27 20:39:15 <knothurtback> whats c and c
Nov 27 20:39:25 <knothurtback> malware like an android app
Nov 27 20:39:26 <knothurtback> or what
Nov 27 20:39:41 <PaulFertser> command and control
Nov 27 20:40:15 <knothurtback> oh gotcha
Nov 27 20:40:19 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: for android that would be android app, for other os, some other app. My point is that if it can be done on software level without anything special about schematics and modem. 
Nov 27 20:40:33 <knothurtback> huh
Nov 27 20:40:38 <knothurtback> but if its all open
Nov 27 20:40:40 <knothurtback> it doesnt matter
Nov 27 20:40:45 <knothurtback> software level wise
Nov 27 20:40:47 <knothurtback> right?
Nov 27 20:40:57 <PaulFertser> All software has bugs. Bugs can be exploited. In open software too.
Nov 27 20:41:13 <knothurtback> so you are saying be pessimistic
Nov 27 20:41:37 <PaulFertser> I'm saying remove the battery to be sure
Nov 27 20:41:46 <knothurtback> no man, I want to play games or go on youtube
Nov 27 20:41:52 <PaulFertser> Use scrap phones and scrap simcards.
Nov 27 20:42:24 <PaulFertser> And use any given simcard in only a single phone.
Nov 27 20:42:32 <knothurtback> so freerunner...if someone was to redo that
Nov 27 20:42:39 <knothurtback> you would have to raise over 500,000 bucks or what
Nov 27 20:42:54 <knothurtback> what would be an ideal crowdsource goal wild guess
Nov 27 20:43:01 <PaulFertser> You know the freecalypso person?
Nov 27 20:43:18 <knothurtback> nope, googling him now
Nov 27 20:43:30 <knothurtback> PaulFertser: you are cool btw, thanks for replying to me
Nov 27 20:43:34 <PaulFertser> He's after building a featurephone based on calypso chipset with illegally open sourced firmware.
Nov 27 20:43:48 <knothurtback> lmao
Nov 27 20:43:51 <knothurtback> yes im reading
Nov 27 20:43:55 <knothurtback> it says basebadn adapter stuff
Nov 27 20:44:01 <knothurtback> this is what i was told years ago which is not available
Nov 27 20:44:08 <knothurtback> or which is the key part to this topic
Nov 27 20:45:27 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: realistically, the way to somehow manage security is compartmentalisation. If you can't reliably do it in software, do it in hardware. Use an android phone for youtubing, and scrap featurephones for other purposes.
Nov 27 20:45:30 <knothurtback> also can you help me find a phone for sale
Nov 27 20:45:32 <knothurtback> the one you have
Nov 27 20:45:40 <PaulFertser> You might be interested in running Qubes OS on your laptop.
Nov 27 20:46:13 <knothurtback> huh...
Nov 27 20:46:16 <knothurtback> i see a new mobo...
Nov 27 20:46:18 <PaulFertser> Unfortunately, I have no idea. Probably GoldenDelicious or Pulster still have some new.
Nov 27 20:46:19 <knothurtback> gta04?
Nov 27 20:46:27 <knothurtback> can I just get that mobo?!
Nov 27 20:46:31 <knothurtback> and do the rest of the parts?
Nov 27 20:47:07 <knothurtback> why is all the phone stuff done by euro people
Nov 27 20:47:09 <knothurtback> i never got this...
Nov 27 20:47:17 <knothurtback> always some dudes who have huge accents and super euro
Nov 27 20:48:07 <knothurtback> dude is selling it for 150
Nov 27 20:48:27 <PaulFertser> Seems free software movement is stronger in that part of the world. More people interested, more universities doing research etc.
Nov 27 20:49:42 <PaulFertser> Why the USA still has software patents and EU doesn't?
Nov 27 20:50:41 <knothurtback> hmmm
Nov 27 20:50:42 <knothurtback> no idea
Nov 27 20:50:47 <knothurtback> do you think 150 is a rip off
Nov 27 20:50:51 <knothurtback> gta02
Nov 27 20:51:00 <knothurtback> its my bday
Nov 27 20:51:04 <knothurtback> maybe i want to buy it 
Nov 27 20:51:05 <knothurtback> now
Nov 27 20:53:01 <knothurtback> android assholes
Nov 27 20:53:04 <knothurtback> ruined firefoxos
Nov 27 20:53:08 <knothurtback> i hope android dies
Nov 27 20:53:12 <knothurtback> and Google too eventually
Nov 27 20:53:35 <PaulFertser> Depends on what you expect from the device really.
Nov 27 20:53:44 <PaulFertser> By modern means it's awfully slow.
Nov 27 20:54:01 <PaulFertser> GSM support does not even have EDGE.
Nov 27 20:54:45 <PaulFertser> Voice communications quality is so-so. 
Nov 27 20:54:57 <PaulFertser> I doubt it can playback youtube videos with that old SoC.
Nov 27 20:55:04 <knothurtback> f it
Nov 27 20:55:07 <knothurtback> im going to save my money
Nov 27 20:55:11 <knothurtback> and put it towards a project
Nov 27 20:55:11 <PaulFertser> It can barely run Midori to watch OSM.
Nov 27 20:55:17 <knothurtback> man firefox os...
Nov 27 20:55:18 <knothurtback> did you try it
Nov 27 20:55:19 <knothurtback> ?
Nov 27 20:55:29 <PaulFertser> No, I do not like web technologies, so haven't even considered.
Nov 27 20:55:31 <knothurtback> so wtf is everyone doing here then?
Nov 27 20:55:35 <knothurtback> why not keep it going
Nov 27 20:55:46 <knothurtback> PaulFertser: what do you prefer to make an app
Nov 27 20:56:52 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: for the regular GUI I'd probably recommend Qt and C++14.
Nov 27 20:57:26 <PaulFertser> I'm not into GUIs though but that seems at least sane.
Nov 27 20:57:40 <PaulFertser> Openmoko lost momentum many years ago, unfortunately.
Nov 27 20:58:20 <knothurtback> dude
Nov 27 20:58:23 <knothurtback> neo900
Nov 27 20:58:27 <knothurtback> i mean
Nov 27 20:58:28 <knothurtback> this sucks
Nov 27 20:58:40 <knothurtback> so the calipso dude
Nov 27 20:58:44 <knothurtback> question
Nov 27 20:58:48 <knothurtback> he said TI said here is a chip and its open and free
Nov 27 20:58:50 <knothurtback> then they left markey
Nov 27 20:58:52 <knothurtback> market
Nov 27 20:58:54 <PaulFertser> The task at hand was pretty hard. The resources scarce. Big players were soon offering plenty of features that just were impossible with this hardware and software, so people started to go away.
Nov 27 20:58:56 <knothurtback> and then tried making it closed?
Nov 27 20:59:03 <knothurtback> and he got all the info and made it public?
Nov 27 20:59:33 <PaulFertser> The calypso dude found leaked sources for baseband processor.
Nov 27 21:00:24 <PaulFertser> These sources were never available as open or free.
Nov 27 21:00:57 <knothurtback> damn thats a crazy story
Nov 27 21:01:03 <knothurtback> thats dope
Nov 27 21:01:06 <knothurtback> did they try gfucking him
Nov 27 21:01:07 <knothurtback> like legally
Nov 27 21:01:11 <knothurtback> or death threats
Nov 27 21:01:26 <PaulFertser> afaik, no, TI just doesn't care about some ancient sources.
Nov 27 21:05:22 <PaulFertser> knothurtback: you should read about Qubes OS man
Nov 27 21:05:48 <knothurtback> its got edward snowden on the front
Nov 27 21:05:55 <knothurtback> lol...automatic sign this is a fed project
Nov 27 21:06:07 <knothurtback> i trust only netbsd and openbsd
Nov 27 21:06:16 <knothurtback> the rest are backdoored and i dont have the money to audit the code to prove it
Nov 27 21:06:34 <knothurtback> and neither do typical 9-5 linux slaves in cubicles
Nov 27 21:09:23 <PaulFertser> http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.nl/2012/09/introducing-qubes-10.html
Nov 27 21:11:55 <knothurtback> god
Nov 27 21:11:57 <knothurtback> reading this stuff
Nov 27 21:12:03 <knothurtback> makes me feel despair
Nov 27 21:13:46 <PaulFertser> Read https://blog.invisiblethings.org/2015/10/27/x86_harmful.html and that will make you even more despair.
Nov 27 21:21:13 <knothurtback> lol
Nov 27 21:21:14 <knothurtback> you are funny
Nov 27 21:21:17 <knothurtback> are you euro
Nov 27 21:28:32 <PaulFertser> Kind of, I'm russian.
Nov 27 21:59:18 <knothurtback> like Zangief
Nov 27 21:59:21 <knothurtback> from SFII
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 28 03:00:00 2016