**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 09 03:00:00 2017
Oct 09 04:45:29 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: 1. yes, mostly used; 2. no, but there's a leaked sources baseband firmware, "freecalypso"; 3. nearly impossible
Oct 09 04:45:40 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: I suggest you check the neo900 project
Oct 09 04:46:18 <vitaminPaani> hi PaulFertser 
Oct 09 04:46:47 <vitaminPaani> PaulFertser: so just for the open source baseband adapter, I will need to pay $700 for neo900 or librem purism?
Oct 09 04:46:51 <vitaminPaani> this is bullshit
Oct 09 04:47:16 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: is librem providing open source baseband?
Oct 09 04:47:32 <vitaminPaani> I think so
Oct 09 04:47:36 <PaulFertser> I doubt so
Oct 09 04:47:41 <vitaminPaani> Android fans have ruined everything
Oct 09 04:47:59 <PaulFertser> Or use freecalypso illegal fw on gta02.
Oct 09 04:48:14 <vitaminPaani> so openmoko phones can be remotely turned on? eg. famous FBI backdoor
Oct 09 04:48:19 <vitaminPaani> via baseband as im told
Oct 09 04:48:40 <vitaminPaani> gta02 boards are out of stock for long time and wont come back im guessing
Oct 09 04:48:42 <PaulFertser> Check the schematics, calypso has no control over the PMU, so no.
Oct 09 04:48:48 <PaulFertser> You can buy used gta02
Oct 09 04:49:21 <vitaminPaani> I wanted to get many
Oct 09 04:49:50 <PaulFertser> You might get some boards from gta04 guys I think.
Oct 09 04:50:42 <vitaminPaani> is it possible to just make a DIY phone with the phone parts, and put together the rest?
Oct 09 04:50:57 <vitaminPaani> phone parts, baseband adapter, modem or wahtever they are in order to have a secure phone
Oct 09 04:50:59 <PaulFertser> But you say you need open source baseband...
Oct 09 04:51:01 <vitaminPaani> dont care about the size...
Oct 09 04:51:45 <vitaminPaani> freecalypso on gta02, but if gta02 is unavailable, can the board be remade in a DIY way ?
Oct 09 04:51:58 <vitaminPaani> eg. not spending 100's of thousands or millions for the pcb development
Oct 09 04:52:19 <PaulFertser> There was gta02-core project. But the hardest problem is sourcing the components, not manufacturing itself.
Oct 09 04:53:13 <vitaminPaani> hmmm if gsm/cdma is out of the question, can you use a sim card and a phone w/o modem or break the modem and just be secure via wifi? eg. openvpn or soemthing
Oct 09 04:53:35 <PaulFertser> You do not need a simcard then :)
Oct 09 04:53:50 <vitaminPaani> need sim card so I can have wifi access wherever I go
Oct 09 04:53:58 <PaulFertser> But, wifi, hm. Have you read about the broadcom fullmac firmware vulns yet?
Oct 09 04:54:00 <vitaminPaani> i mean net access*
Oct 09 04:54:08 <vitaminPaani> lol no
Oct 09 04:54:31 <vitaminPaani> all wifi chipsets are backdoored im guessing
Oct 09 04:54:47 <vitaminPaani> broadcom has known to be an asshole
Oct 09 04:54:59 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.nl/2017/09/over-air-vol-2-pt-1-exploiting-wi-fi.html
Oct 09 04:55:32 <vitaminPaani> sheesh
Oct 09 04:55:41 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: wifi can't use any simcard anyway.
Oct 09 04:56:25 <vitaminPaani> hmmm
Oct 09 04:56:26 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: it's either you really need the connectivity "everywhere" and thus find a way to deal with gsm/umts/lte or you structure your activities in a way that doesn't require it...
Oct 09 04:56:42 <vitaminPaani> structure in way, meaning like meshnet?
Oct 09 04:57:20 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: if you really care, I suggest using Qubes OS on laptop + USB UMTS/LTE modem. That would be close to reasonable, verifiable and controllable security measures.
Oct 09 04:57:44 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: no, I mean rethinking your activities so they do not depend on cell network operators.
Oct 09 04:58:42 <vitaminPaani> usb lte modem with sim card?
Oct 09 04:58:46 <PaulFertser> Yes
Oct 09 04:59:06 <PaulFertser> But with Qubes OS you can sufficiently isolate it from the rest of the system.
Oct 09 04:59:30 <vitaminPaani> hmmmmmmmm so a rpi with qubes os with usb modem would be the DIY portable version im guessing?
Oct 09 04:59:42 <PaulFertser> You clearly haven't read about Qubes OS yes ;)
Oct 09 05:00:15 <vitaminPaani> damn its got snowden recommneding it lol, to me thats a flag
Oct 09 05:00:24 <PaulFertser> A flag of what?
Oct 09 05:00:27 <vitaminPaani> the matrix has no heroes
Oct 09 05:00:33 <vitaminPaani> honeypot or something
Oct 09 05:00:44 <vitaminPaani> to think people are fighting for you
Oct 09 05:00:55 <PaulFertser> Just get more familiar with the devs. They're real security researches, lots of work published.
Oct 09 05:01:03 <PaulFertser> Check commit log. Etc.
Oct 09 05:02:25 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: snowden also recommends GPG and strong TLS, so are you ignoring https websites now? ;
Oct 09 05:02:28 <PaulFertser> )
Oct 09 05:02:58 <vitaminPaani> I dont ignore them, but I think its all brroken
Oct 09 05:03:25 <vitaminPaani> so qubes...im not familiar with XEN and all that stuff
Oct 09 05:03:40 <vitaminPaani> but im guessing it a VM? meaning it runs on top of whatever OS you want
Oct 09 05:03:51 <vitaminPaani> I mentioned rpi re: portable
Oct 09 05:04:01 <vitaminPaani> vs laptop (bigger)
Oct 09 05:04:30 <vitaminPaani> did you see taht psyop with openbsd and FBI
Oct 09 05:06:21 <vitaminPaani> linux community let openmoko die...
Oct 09 05:06:25 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: rpi cpu doesn't support facilities that Qubes relies on to provide isolation.
Oct 09 05:06:25 <vitaminPaani> cant believe this shit
Oct 09 05:06:36 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: what psyop, no?
Oct 09 05:06:46 <vitaminPaani> not die but how Android is supported...openmoko should have gotten it
Oct 09 05:07:03 <vitaminPaani> its just that Google uses open source and abuses it and spends money on marketing to make it seem they give a shit
Oct 09 05:07:05 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: duh, those that need cell networks are happy enough with android and other shit.
Oct 09 05:11:15 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: btw, interesting to note that despite all the research regarding firmwares, there's lots of signs that they're very low quality code, and zero signs of explicit backdoors.
Oct 09 05:15:22 <vitaminPaani> its all controlled
Oct 09 05:15:57 <vitaminPaani> Google sealed the deal with getting people not to demand open hardware
Oct 09 05:16:01 <vitaminPaani> via marketing
Oct 09 05:16:39 <PaulFertser> I do not think it works like that.
Oct 09 05:16:59 <PaulFertser> The hardware is sufficiently open for research.
Oct 09 05:19:34 <vitaminPaani> im not a one man army
Oct 09 05:19:35 <vitaminPaani> lol
Oct 09 05:21:46 <vitaminPaani> sneakernet like johnny nemoninc i guess
Oct 09 05:37:58 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: you can get a smartphone where you can physically cut the power to avoid tracking.
Oct 09 05:38:17 <vitaminPaani> its not about tracking
Oct 09 05:38:23 <vitaminPaani> its about remotely being turne don
Oct 09 05:39:16 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: and that too, as no power -> no chance to be turned on anyhow. Anyway, if you're into real security and not conspiracy theories, start with preparing a detailed sophisticated enough threat model. Then use it to evaluate the possible solutions.
Oct 09 05:39:16 <vitaminPaani> i bet sneakernets will take off
Oct 09 05:40:14 <vitaminPaani> its not conspiracy theory, its called not being fooled
Oct 09 05:40:23 <vitaminPaani> and naive
Oct 09 05:40:49 <PaulFertser> However you call it. A phone can't work without a battery.
Oct 09 05:41:24 <vitaminPaani> true
Oct 09 05:42:01 <vitaminPaani> but need battery on
Oct 09 05:42:04 <vitaminPaani> to get calls
Oct 09 05:42:10 <vitaminPaani> but thats how they got the mafia dude
Oct 09 05:42:13 <vitaminPaani> turned his mic on
Oct 09 05:42:25 <vitaminPaani> https://www.cnet.com/g00/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D
Oct 09 05:42:45 <PaulFertser> So do not count on getting calls, do not plug in the battery until you really need to make a call yourself.
Oct 09 05:45:23 <PaulFertser> You won't be carrying a gun in the open where it's prohibited, right, so you make a policy for yourself to avoid that. Same can be done regarding IT security, i.e. establish good reliable policies when technical measures alone are not trustworthy enough.
Oct 09 05:45:40 <PaulFertser> But you need a threat model first regardless.
Oct 09 05:46:18 <vitaminPaani> hmm true
Oct 09 05:47:46 <vitaminPaani> PaulFertser: thanks for talking to me
Oct 09 05:52:38 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: good luck man
Oct 09 05:53:03 <vitaminPaani> thanks
Oct 09 05:53:11 <vitaminPaani> PaulFertser: have you seen the movies SNEAKERS and JOHNNY NMUMONIC?>
Oct 09 05:57:13 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: probably yes for the latter, but I can't really remember. Guess I should watch then when I get bored.
Oct 09 05:58:23 <vitaminPaani> do you remeber cray computer
Oct 09 05:58:26 <PaulFertser> vitaminPaani: have you seen Wag the Dog? ;) At least it has Knopfler's tunes in it.
Oct 09 05:58:26 <vitaminPaani> computers
Oct 09 05:58:40 <vitaminPaani> yes, i have seen wag the dog, and i believe they do they every month
Oct 09 06:02:34 <vitaminPaani> im going to go watch tv
Oct 09 06:02:37 <vitaminPaani> and get programmed
Oct 09 06:02:39 <vitaminPaani> goodnight
Oct 09 23:24:41 <vitaminPaani> PaulFertser: sup
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 10 03:00:00 2017