**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 17 02:59:56 2009
Aug 17 03:10:28 <tinker-f595> rektide: I am back.  Did you get it workinng?
Aug 17 03:11:11 <SDuensin> Evening tinker-f595
Aug 17 03:11:24 <tinker-f595> hi
Aug 17 03:11:29 <rektide> i did.  welcome back, thanks for inquiring.  it ended up being the cable.
Aug 17 03:11:31 <tinker-f595> just got home
Aug 17 03:11:35 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 17 03:11:50 <tinker-f595> cable broken or not plugged in?
Aug 17 03:12:04 <rektide> it works plugged into my laptop!  but plugged into openrd it does.
Aug 17 03:12:12 <rektide> *doesnt
Aug 17 03:12:33 <tinker-f595> does your laptop do gigabit?
Aug 17 03:12:49 <rektide> i was moving the board and happened to use a diferent nearby cable and *whamo* connection.  yes laptop does gigabit.  but the switch its always plugged into doesnt.
Aug 17 03:13:02 <tinker-f595> hmmm strange
Aug 17 03:13:21 <tinker-f595> probably a glitch in the plug
Aug 17 03:13:32 <tinker-f595> is this the cable that ships with the openrd
Aug 17 03:13:40 <rektide> uh huh i really dont get it.  but it works now, and i'm >50% of the way to having a working debian on this system.
Aug 17 03:13:58 <rektide> no i was using my own.  its non shielded.
Aug 17 03:14:13 <tinker-f595> hmmmmm that does not help
Aug 17 03:14:26 <tinker-f595> having it non-shielded
Aug 17 03:15:03 <SDuensin> Stop talking about OpenRD.  You're going to cost me money!  :-P
Aug 17 03:15:11 <tinker-f595> once I found out if the patches for the OpenRD Client have been pushed upstream I am go to build fed 11 for it
Aug 17 03:15:41 <tinker-f595> yes we should start an OpenRD channel
Aug 17 03:15:57 <rektide> mainline upstream?  yeah it _just_ made it to the kernel in last week.
Aug 17 03:16:14 <tinker-f595> I think that was the patch set for the OpenRD Base
Aug 17 03:16:29 <rektide> yes... you have -client then?
Aug 17 03:16:38 <tinker-f595> yes I have the client
Aug 17 03:16:44 <tinker-f595> lot more I/O
Aug 17 03:16:50 <rektide> SDuensin: unless you need SATA.... or a boatload of IO.... uh never mind
Aug 17 03:16:56 <rektide> yeah i have usb for my io
Aug 17 03:17:14 <SDuensin> I need CPU right now.  My emulated ARM build never did finish last night.  I finally killed it.
Aug 17 03:17:22 <tinker-f595> rektide: you have sata on the Base
Aug 17 03:17:36 <tinker-f595> but only 1 ehternet port
Aug 17 03:17:56 <tinker-f595> plus you have a free pci port
Aug 17 03:18:20 <tinker-f595> the open RD client uses the pci for the video and has 2 ethernet ports
Aug 17 03:18:26 <rektide> is it pci or pci-e?
Aug 17 03:19:11 <rektide> sata is all i really need.  sata with command switching, which those morons at Intel have yet to implement.
Aug 17 03:19:26 <rektide> my openrd is for a car computer with a 4 disk SATA enclosure plugged up to it.
Aug 17 03:19:37 <tinker-f595> pci express
Aug 17 03:19:39 <rektide> yeah its pci-e.  i dont really have a use for it, at the moment
Aug 17 03:20:00 <tinker-f595> well if you decide to add video
Aug 17 03:20:08 <tinker-f595> or some such
Aug 17 03:20:31 <rektide> *nod*
Aug 17 03:20:59 <tinker-f595> but then the volari on the open rd does not use much electricity....I got it for a low power consumption server application
Aug 17 03:23:45 <rektide> i want a E4690 with HDMI out and a badass PPC core
Aug 17 03:23:49 <rektide> also, a pony
Aug 17 03:26:02 <rektide> is the serial out not good enough for your server app ?
Aug 17 03:26:45 <rektide> are the drivers passable for the Volari
Aug 17 03:27:54 <rektide> curses!: setenv bootusb_cmd 'setenv bootargs $(bootargs_usb); usb start; ext2load usb 0:1 0x00200000 /boot/uImage; ext2load usb 0:1 0x01100000 /boot/uInitrd; bootm 0x00200000 0x01100000' \ ** Too many args (max. 16) **
Aug 17 03:28:18 <rektide> my desire to do multi-boot!  squashed!  like a small squishy thing! http://www.openplug.org/plugwiki/index.php/Multi-Boot
Aug 17 03:28:42 <tinker-f595> xcurses or just curses ?
Aug 17 03:28:56 <rektide> ncurses in 16 color
Aug 17 03:29:01 <tinker-f595> ha
Aug 17 03:29:11 <tinker-f595> what type of pony ?
Aug 17 03:29:33 <tinker-f595> saw lots of goats today but no ponies
Aug 17 03:29:49 <rektide> i dont know; i just made that one up.  maybe a pinata poney filled with money?  that'd actually be nice.
Aug 17 03:30:03 <SDuensin> Oh, I want that.  I'll even bring my own stick.
Aug 17 03:30:46 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 17 03:31:07 <tinker-f595> I have some old pesos not worth anything...you can stuff into it
Aug 17 03:31:33 <rektide> again forsaken by my lack of specificity
Aug 17 03:31:39 <tinker-f595> ha
Aug 17 03:32:46 <tinker-f595> ran into a couple of people that run robogames.net today.  The controllers in the machines are really primitive
Aug 17 03:34:52 <rektide> http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2009/08/mech-warfare-rules-2010-edition/
Aug 17 03:35:01 <rektide> that promises to have more high tech interfacing
Aug 17 03:37:37 <rektide> i'm waiting for the mecha competition were electronic warfare is permitted
Aug 17 03:37:42 <rektide> where
Aug 17 03:39:43 <tinker-f595> emf pulse generator?
Aug 17 03:40:19 <rektide> i'm hoping eventually software defined radio gets to the point where i can start using it for RF rc airplanes
Aug 17 03:44:57 <tinker-f595> well make your own
Aug 17 03:45:43 <rektide> i'm not that smart yet.  i need gnu/radio and others to lay some groundwork, and i need silicon to get more integrated.
Aug 17 03:45:51 <tinker-f595> I have some software defined radio specs somewhere.  From a startup I was involved with that never got going.  They had some great ideas but bereft of funding
Aug 17 03:46:05 <tinker-f595> silicon is already integrated
Aug 17 03:46:09 <rektide> i did pretty poorly in communication theory to be honest
Aug 17 03:47:02 <tinker-f595> depends what you mean
Aug 17 03:47:06 <SDuensin> Shhh!  Don't scare my funding!
Aug 17 03:47:19 <rektide> thats really cool.  was there any particular sector you guys were trying to serve?
Aug 17 03:48:03 <tinker-f595> extremely long range multi gigahertz
Aug 17 03:48:18 <rektide> coooooool
Aug 17 03:48:33 <SDuensin> Extremely?  Like land-based or space?
Aug 17 03:49:26 <tinker-f595> had one of the top rf guys involved.  terrestrial... a lot the people involved had done some fundamental design on other systems
Aug 17 03:50:13 <rektide> i have to get the ehll out of software.  i love software, dearly, but i think i need to be involved in making real things.
Aug 17 03:50:42 <SDuensin> rektide - I hear ya.  It gets depressing working your ass off on invisible bits.
Aug 17 03:50:55 <tinker-f595> I sometimes think that...but it also would be nice to have a nest egg to be able to retire
Aug 17 03:51:37 <rektide> well hey, you took one shot at building that-- this high flying startup
Aug 17 03:52:11 <tinker-f595> I wish it had gone somewhere...
Aug 17 03:52:23 <rektide> even though it didnt pay out, it must still at least have been an incredibly enriching experience, having so many smart people putting their brains together
Aug 17 03:52:25 <tinker-f595> timing was not right
Aug 17 03:53:38 <SDuensin> Startups are stressful.
Aug 17 03:53:45 <tinker-f595> I have worked for so many different companies. Some were the people were genuinely  brilliant and other places were they were just conceited
Aug 17 03:53:53 * SDuensin has been there, done that.
Aug 17 03:54:15 <rektide> and if only that difference is what gauged success
Aug 17 03:54:22 <rektide> sadly, no
Aug 17 03:55:49 <tinker-f595> well quite often it is the conceited that survive
Aug 17 03:56:13 <rektide> http://pastebin.com/ma676a31
Aug 17 03:56:25 <rektide> i'm trying to setup a multi-boot, to boot from usb, and if that fails, nand
Aug 17 03:56:41 <rektide> all the pieces seem to be there, i can run the usb piece by piece and it works
Aug 17 03:57:13 <rektide> but placed alltogether, `boot` still boots nand, even though the bootcmd should .... ah frak.
Aug 17 03:57:19 <rektide> bootcmd not boot_command?
Aug 17 03:57:55 <tinker-f595> what is panic=10 ?
Aug 17 03:58:06 <rektide> if the kernel panics, give me ten seconds to read about it.
Aug 17 03:58:26 <rektide> /very/ handy when you are me
Aug 17 03:58:43 <tinker-f595> ah
Aug 17 03:59:18 <tinker-f595> how fast does your drive spin up cause you give it only 7 seconds
Aug 17 03:59:20 <rektide> is there a way to unset a variable, short of resetting the entire uboot ?
Aug 17 03:59:55 <rektide> its a Flash stick, not hard drive.  and because i'm using usb start, i'm not sure i even need to wait at all.
Aug 17 04:00:14 <rektide> is there a way i can unset the variable boot_cmd ?
Aug 17 04:00:23 <tinker-f595> good question
Aug 17 04:00:27 <tinker-f595> brb
Aug 17 04:01:40 <SDuensin> what if you set it to nothing?
Aug 17 04:01:45 <rektide> damn i thought i had it.  seems my bootargs arent working
Aug 17 04:01:58 <rektide> SDuensin: i'm not sure, but i suspect it'll still exist in the environment,j ust as empty.
Aug 17 04:05:26 <tinker-f595> set it to empty then printenv to see what is there
Aug 17 04:05:28 <tinker-f595> http://plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/Das_U-boot_plug_support
Aug 17 04:05:45 <tinker-f595> http://plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/Multi-Boot
Aug 17 04:05:49 <tinker-f595> for examples
Aug 17 04:06:19 <rektide> remarkably it did clear it, although i dare not test that cycle across a saveenv/reset
Aug 17 04:08:37 <rektide> awh hell. :(
Aug 17 04:08:56 <tinker-f595> part of the fun
Aug 17 04:09:09 <rektide> i had a kernel/initrd booting from usb
Aug 17 04:09:39 <rektide> now i get 'uncompressing linux.... done, booting the kernel.' and then nothing
Aug 17 04:09:47 <rektide> what have i changed. :(
Aug 17 04:10:42 <rektide> it was fun making it work, now i'm just aggravated
Aug 17 04:13:00 <rektide> not knowing what you're doing is easy.  now i think i know what i'm doing, its just not working.  kernel _is_ booting, and when i booted it before it worked.  now it says the kernel is booting and... nothing
Aug 17 04:21:33 <rektide> Marvell>> printenv mainlineLinux
Aug 17 04:21:34 <rektide> mainlineLinux=no
Aug 17 04:21:39 <rektide> BLAST ME
Aug 17 04:21:54 <rektide> forgot i had to go do stuff
Aug 17 04:22:00 <rektide> and switched that around
Aug 17 04:33:38 <SDuensin> :-)
Aug 17 04:33:54 <rektide> i was about to comit sepuku
Aug 17 04:34:54 * SDuensin is in and out of this chat.  Trying to get his 3 month old and 4 year old to bed.  He is losing.
Aug 17 05:01:25 <rektide> tinker-f595: your talk about SDR makes me think about Mojix...
Aug 17 05:01:48 <rektide> its a recent startup from a couple nasa eggheads who spent their days communicating with distant probes
Aug 17 05:02:39 <rektide> they looked at the state of RFID, chuckled a little, and decided to do something a lot better.  they've been building location sensing platforms around rfid that are numerous orders of magnitude better than anything thats come before.
Aug 17 05:06:48 <SDuensin> They've got awesome buzzword skills, too.  Their website leverages best-of-breed nonsense words!
Aug 17 05:07:15 <SDuensin> And for rocket scientists, they put the comma in the wrong place in the number "10,000".  :-)
Aug 17 05:08:59 <SDuensin> They do make neat toys though.
Aug 17 05:09:16 <rektide> man, i followed instructions from http://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_265
Aug 17 05:09:22 <rektide> and for the most part, they've been spot on
Aug 17 05:09:25 <SDuensin> Welp, that's it.  I'm going to try and get the last one in bed.  Talk to you all later.
Aug 17 05:09:31 <rektide> good fortune
Aug 17 05:10:10 <rektide> the one thing i dont follow is
Aug 17 05:10:19 <rektide> # the kernel is able to read the time from the RTC by itself, and this
Aug 17 05:10:25 <rektide> # will allow using a read only root
Aug 17 05:10:31 <rektide> echo HWCLOCKACCESS=no >> /etc/default/rcS
Aug 17 05:11:25 <rektide> i'm not sure if the problem is that exactly or something more, but whatever the issue, it makes debian unable to tell the time. it starts at epoch 0 every time.
Aug 17 05:11:44 <rektide> which in turn makes debian not mount sda1
Aug 17 05:28:43 <tinker-f595> ha
Aug 17 05:29:18 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: rocket science is easy. rocket engineering is hard
Aug 17 05:35:34 <rektide> man, where do i find SLC usb flash drives?  i'm suddenly worried about this MLC drive.
Aug 17 05:35:53 <tinker-f595> ?
Aug 17 05:36:03 <tinker-f595> why worried?
Aug 17 05:37:18 <rektide> its the root fs; i'm worried the damned thing is going to stop working.
Aug 17 05:39:14 <rektide> heh; i guess thats what i'll use the pci-e for; a SLC flash disk. ;) (not really, i'm not shelling out that much money)
Aug 17 05:40:16 <rektide> "only" $170 for a SuperTalent FPD16GRSE 16GB pcie flash disk
Aug 17 05:42:58 <tinker-f595> hmmm good ones are like 800
Aug 17 05:43:25 <tinker-f595> that is good SSD
Aug 17 05:44:03 <tinker-f595> I am going to wait a few years till the kinks are worked out
Aug 17 05:44:48 <rektide> SSD's are still reaping the benefits of Moore's law, so I'm in your boat
Aug 17 05:45:01 <rektide> i was just looking to see what SLC options were available now... not many was the answer.
Aug 17 05:45:54 <tinker-f595> 2.5 inch hard drives are inexpensive
Aug 17 05:46:19 <rektide> too power consuming for my car computer
Aug 17 05:46:42 <tinker-f595> 2 watts max, idle under a watt
Aug 17 05:47:03 <tinker-f595> your cabin lights use more
Aug 17 05:47:33 <rektide> thats better than i thought, for sure.
Aug 17 05:48:01 <rektide> http://is.gd/2kFbj
Aug 17 05:48:23 <tinker-f595> 2.5 inch use a lot less power then 3.5 and spin up faster...less inertial mass
Aug 17 05:48:25 <rektide> 8gb SLC based usb flash disk.... $30.  everything else is >$120
Aug 17 05:48:36 <rektide> and that includes many 4GB drives. :(
Aug 17 05:48:59 <tinker-f595> I like OCZ brand
Aug 17 05:49:56 <rektide> i've been happy with the ram i've bought from them.  overclocked pretty well.
Aug 17 05:52:06 <tinker-f595> I pick up OCZ usb drives from these guys when they have it on sale.  http://www.centralcomputers.com/commerce/ccvr1147-1114-flash-drive-usb-2-0.htm
Aug 17 05:52:28 <tinker-f595> I have abunch floating around with masking tape on them as labels
Aug 17 05:52:34 <rektide> dammmn, rally2 8gb for $23!
Aug 17 05:52:59 <rektide> thats a _nice_ find
Aug 17 05:53:15 <rektide> imagine a raid array those. ;)
Aug 17 05:53:34 <rektide> *For in-store pickup: please call store location for availability
Aug 17 05:53:36 <tinker-f595> oh and that is not sale price
Aug 17 05:54:23 <tinker-f595> I check there prices every day. I have learnt to go in the day the sale goes on for those
Aug 17 05:54:26 <rektide> oh, those arent the turbo.  turbo's are the only one's with SLC. :(
Aug 17 05:54:45 <tinker-f595> well the turbos go on sale
Aug 17 05:54:51 <tinker-f595> but  they go fast
Aug 17 05:55:12 <rektide> that ATV i linked is a ruggedized Rally2 Turbo.
Aug 17 05:55:16 <rektide> $30
Aug 17 05:55:18 <tinker-f595> it is a no BS outfit
Aug 17 05:55:22 <rektide> i think i'll order 3-4
Aug 17 05:55:31 <rektide> its only money, right? :/
Aug 17 05:55:42 <tinker-f595> at work they use the top end OCZ SSD
Aug 17 05:55:43 <rektide> nah i'll get 2.  calm yourself rektide.
Aug 17 05:56:06 <rektide> with SSD's, its not worth going for anything but the best
Aug 17 05:56:40 <rektide> right now at least.  soon a 1/4 decent flash controller will be a standard commodity.  but right now, your random writes either suck, or you have a top of the line drive.
Aug 17 05:57:17 <tinker-f595> they tried other ones but the controllers would fail...not good in a rig for a sales engineer trying to demonstrate stuff
Aug 17 05:58:23 <rektide> no, thats not good at all
Aug 17 06:00:19 <tinker-f595> time for sleep
Aug 17 06:01:12 <rektide> adios.  glad i ran into you; its been good chatting.  hope to see you here again.
Aug 17 06:01:22 <tinker-f595> ciao
Aug 17 06:13:12 <rektide> tasks: cross compile a kernel in debian, one that includes rtc-mv.
Aug 17 09:07:47 <rektide> wow there appears to be a crap ton missing to get OpenRD building
Aug 17 09:11:50 <rektide> just #DEFINE's and crap to make the build know OPENRD exists
Aug 17 09:12:16 <ron_> go to HEAD, go directly to HEAD, do not pass go, do not miss the 2.6.32 merge window
Aug 17 09:12:26 <rektide> i'm on the orion tree
Aug 17 09:12:33 <rektide> http://git.marvell.com/?p=orion.git;a=summary
Aug 17 09:13:04 <rektide> on MASTER
Aug 17 09:15:12 <rektide> i'm just searching for SHEEVAPLUG and basically doing verbatim for whatever the syntactical equivalent is for OpenRD
Aug 17 09:15:23 <rektide> i think this son of a gun is actually compiling
Aug 17 09:15:49 <ron_> it won't work though.  they aren't the same
Aug 17 09:16:02 <rektide> theres a defined MACHINE_TYPE for openrd
Aug 17 09:17:24 <rektide> but i have no idea what that means or how it maps from kernel configuration or how the system knows what to boot
Aug 17 09:17:40 <ron_> and patches on their way to linus for the next window.  not sure what branch nicolas is keeping them on there though
Aug 17 09:18:25 <rektide> ah, so uboot uses the mach-type number to know what to boot, eh?
Aug 17 09:18:26 <rektide> hm
Aug 17 09:24:13 <rektide> sweet there is a machine type for openrd
Aug 17 09:24:14 <rektide> just no patches in the kernel
Aug 17 09:24:18 <rektide> http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/
Aug 17 09:29:33 <ron_> that just means they requested a number in the database, and that file has been synced
Aug 17 09:30:00 <suihkulokki> iirc there are openRd patches on the linux-arm-kernel list
Aug 17 09:30:00 <ron_> initial patches won't go mainline until 2.6.32-rcX starts most likely
Aug 17 09:30:23 <ron_> they should be in the orion repo somewhere too
Aug 17 09:31:29 <ron_> not all interfaces are supported yet, just the basic set.  depending on what you need, you'll either need to get your hands dirty, or stick to their old kernel they supplied with it
Aug 17 09:32:02 <rektide> the master marvell git tree seems to have all the patches
Aug 17 09:32:57 <rektide> i was just confused because it has an old arch/arm/tools/mach-types, which is easy enough to update
Aug 17 09:33:31 <rektide> going through the kernel's menuconfig, it seemed to have all the relevant device peripherials
Aug 17 09:34:44 <ron_> depends on your definition of relevant :)  I should have patches to send off for a few more in the next week or two if testing goes well
Aug 17 09:35:39 <ron_> there's quite a bit in their sample code that isn't implemented for mainline yet
Aug 17 09:36:36 <rektide> i'm not familiar enough with linux to understand how modules and the contents of arch/arm/mach-kirkwood come together
Aug 17 09:37:12 <rektide> i'm assuming whats missing is init code for specific platforms?
Aug 17 09:37:18 <rektide> not so much the actual device drivers themself?
Aug 17 09:37:52 <ron_> mostly peripheral code is missing.  but the board code isn't in linus' tree yet either
Aug 17 09:38:31 <ron_> there's support for some periperals that they've been using on older chipsets though
Aug 17 09:47:38 <rektide> arch/arm/plat-orion/include/plat/gpio.h:32: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘orion_gpio_init’
Aug 17 09:47:51 <rektide> on: void __init orion_gpio_init(void);
Aug 17 09:50:34 <rektide> gcc magic; where are you
Aug 17 09:58:18 <rektide> man this takes me back to the first days of compiling kernels, having no idea what the hell i was doing
Aug 17 09:59:03 <rektide> i just #include <linux/init.h>'d in the file... whether thats a workaround/kludge/cardinal-sin or fix, i have no idea.
Aug 17 09:59:14 <rektide> took a while to figure out where the macro lived
Aug 17 10:01:19 <rektide> hot shit, look at that, a .deb file.  lets see what she does!
Aug 17 10:01:39 <rektide> linux-image-2.6.31-rc5-thuban-thuban-00477-g4b596cf-dirty_1.001_armel.deb
Aug 17 10:53:50 <rektide> damnit still no RTC
Aug 17 10:53:57 <rektide> blimer still thinks its epoch time 0
Aug 17 10:56:41 <rektide> and i still havent figured out how to tell ext3 not to care; it throws me into maintence mode. :(
Aug 17 10:57:20 <rektide> CONFIG_RTC_DRV_MV is compiled into the kernel... what gives. :/
Aug 17 10:57:59 <rektide> maybe its just some kind of udev magic i dont understand or know
Aug 17 11:17:22 <rektide> time for bed; rtc issue posted at http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=618
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 18 02:59:56 2009