**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 22 02:59:57 2009
Aug 22 03:00:09 <rektide> theres no registers for enabling or disabling the RTC, as far as i can see... only r/w'ing the date/time.
Aug 22 03:00:31 <rektide> so if mine's really not working, as it appears, it is a hardware issue
Aug 22 03:04:09 <tinker-f595> rektide: how did you determine that?
Aug 22 03:04:28 <rektide> Appendix 20 of the Functional Spec
Aug 22 03:04:33 <rektide> Appendix A.20
Aug 22 03:05:16 <tinker-f595> ah
Aug 22 03:06:35 <tinker-f595> or it could be your software install
Aug 22 03:07:18 <rektide> u-boot and the bundled 2.6.22.18 both tell me the same thing
Aug 22 03:07:25 <rektide> that i can r/w the RTC
Aug 22 03:07:31 <rektide> but that it doesnt actually advance
Aug 22 03:07:51 <rektide> and it doesnt persist either
Aug 22 03:13:21 <[g2]> congrats on the news on hackaday !!
Aug 22 03:13:56 <[g2]> are you guys set on the optware model or is there thought of straight Ubuntu ?
Aug 22 03:15:12 <rektide> [g2]: i think pogoplug is news to most of us
Aug 22 03:15:40 <rektide> [g2]: we're dominantly using SheevaPlug, which uses Ubuntu by default, with a couple loons (like myself) using OpenRD, which is Fedora/Ubuntu
Aug 22 03:15:49 <rektide> i myself am using Debian armel.
Aug 22 03:16:55 <rektide> pogoplug looks like OpenPlug with closed source... just use OpenPlug.  I dont see the need for OpenPogo.
Aug 22 03:18:03 <[g2]> rektide: cool.  I've got 2 pogos, one is ripped open the other is running Ubuntu 9.04 in a chroot
Aug 22 03:18:59 <[g2]> I haven't built and reflashed the kernel because I've been to lazy and haven't really needed to reflash.  I'm just running a web server (and screen/irssi) from Ubuntu
Aug 22 03:19:11 <[g2]> it's been running for a few months
Aug 22 03:19:40 <rektide> nice.  sounds like its working swimmingly.  wish i could say the same for my openrd. ;)
Aug 22 03:20:04 <[g2]> I've considered getting and OpenRD
Aug 22 03:20:28 <[g2]> that's box with PCI/SATA right ?
Aug 22 03:20:44 <rektide> yes
Aug 22 03:21:04 * [g2] wonders what's not working well
Aug 22 03:21:30 <rektide> RTC, which makes ext3 very very very unhappy.
Aug 22 03:21:48 <[g2]> ntpd ?
Aug 22 03:21:50 <rektide> RTC is r/w'able, but doesnt advance, and doesnt perisst across reboots.
Aug 22 03:21:59 <rektide> its for a car computer, one without a net connection
Aug 22 03:22:06 <rektide> and ntpd typically launches after / mounts
Aug 22 03:22:26 <[g2]> do you know which RTC chip ?
Aug 22 03:22:30 <rektide> honestly if its not just me having this issue (which i dont think it is) i really dont understand how anyone has ever used this board successfully
Aug 22 03:22:37 <rektide> its integrated into the kirkwood processor, afaict
Aug 22 03:23:11 <[g2]> I wouldn't think so, but it's possible
Aug 22 03:23:55 * [g2] looks at the pogo which has a battery iirc
Aug 22 03:24:51 <[g2]> rektide: on the board I had built, the RTC needed to be kicked if it hadn't been used in a few months
Aug 22 03:26:34 <rektide> battery plugs into VCC1V8_RTC_AVDD
Aug 22 03:26:55 <rektide> i've set the date in quite a few wys
Aug 22 03:27:08 <rektide> linux hwclock from various systems, as well as via u-boot's date command
Aug 22 03:27:16 <rektide> it accepts setting or reading the date fine
Aug 22 03:27:23 <rektide> but the date doesnt move if you read back from it latter
Aug 22 03:27:38 <rektide> and more troublingly, if you reboot its reset back to the stock 2000-1-1
Aug 22 03:34:26 <tinker-f595> rektide
Aug 22 03:34:34 <tinker-f595> rektide: you there?
Aug 22 03:36:42 <tinker-f595> rektide: firing up my test setup
Aug 22 03:39:28 <[g2]> rektide:
Aug 22 03:40:24 <[g2]> rektide: sounds like the chip needs to keep the data across reboots or be in a low-power mode
Aug 22 03:40:35 <[g2]> rektide: which kernel are you running ?
Aug 22 03:43:17 <tinker-f595> rektide: my clock updates
Aug 22 03:54:44 <Md> if it does not advance it really looks like it's broken
Aug 22 08:23:06 <rektide> tinker-f595: well, i'm glad openrd's arent _all_ broken
Aug 22 08:23:27 <rektide> thanks for checking
Aug 22 08:23:43 <rektide> what did you use to check ?
Aug 22 12:49:00 <Plax2> hello
Aug 22 14:35:05 <Plax2> is the sheevaplug reliable? I read the forums and saw that some people had reboots caused by USB devices and corruption of the internal flash and memory cards preventing the sheevaplug from booting. are these common issues or are they caused only by some USB devices or the sheevaplug losing power while writing data?
Aug 22 14:53:12 <tinker-f595> Plax2: If you read more carefully you will find the corruption was caused by them incorrectly flashing.  Any system will have problems with bad quality USB devices.
Aug 22 14:53:26 <tinker-f595> Plax2: Here is my uptime
Aug 22 14:53:29 <tinker-f595> top - 14:52:03 up 24 days,  7:16,  2 users,  load average: 0.08, 0.06, 0.00
Aug 22 14:54:11 <tinker-f595> I am booting my sheevaplug from a hard drive in a USB enclosure
Aug 22 14:54:36 <tinker-f595> In my experience the sheevaplug is very realiable
Aug 22 14:55:08 <tinker-f595> rektide: I followed your steps
Aug 22 16:16:33 <Xion345> Hello
Aug 22 16:27:09 <Xion345> Does someone know if it's possible to disable the DDR2 device test in uBoot ?
Aug 22 19:23:55 <rektide> i wish it were possible ot disable all the tests.  i'll take my 5-second speedup in boot time. ;)
Aug 22 19:29:07 <christoph_debian> hm where was that reset button on the plug again?
Aug 22 20:38:30 <acoc> has anyone successfully used the script from https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ARM/RootfsFromScratch to build the rootfs for the sheevaplug
Aug 22 20:44:50 <Xion345> It doesn't work if you use debootstrap and mkfs.jffs2 ?
Aug 22 20:45:06 <Xion345> (That's what I currently trying to do with debian
Aug 22 20:46:07 * christoph_debian has emdebian on the plug's flash but used (nearly) installer-6's script
Aug 22 20:46:13 <christoph_debian> and ubi
Aug 22 20:47:24 <Xion345> What is that installer6 ?
Aug 22 20:49:45 <christoph_debian> the installer from openplug.org ;)
Aug 22 20:49:48 <acoc> has anyone had issues with ldap, that is what I see referenced with this type of failure
Aug 22 20:50:44 <christoph_debian> http://openplug.org/plugwiki/index.php/SheevaPlug_Installer
Aug 22 20:52:28 <Xion345> And you hacked this script to use emdebian instead of ubuntu ?
Aug 22 20:54:11 <christoph_debian> it was basically replacing the mirror + replacing upstart with md's script to get the serial terminal ;)
Aug 22 20:54:48 <christoph_debian> in ubuntu-sheevaplug.sh
Aug 22 20:55:05 <Xion345> Thanks, I will have a look at it, if I can't get debian running
Aug 22 20:55:12 <christoph_debian> s/md's script/md's inittab/
Aug 22 20:56:08 <christoph_debian> unfortunately that script got lost when I was flashing the debian on the plug (was creating the rootfs on the ubuntu on the plug and didn't backup properly)
Aug 22 23:09:44 <rektide> tinker-f595: why are there two buttons on OpenRD ?
Aug 22 23:46:55 <Xion345> This is damn stupid ! I lost one hour understading why my kernel was not booting
Aug 22 23:47:31 <Xion345> Apparently, it's necessary to use the included mkimage and not the one tou can find in your distribution
Aug 22 23:48:44 <ShadowJK> I used mkimage on the plug :/
Aug 22 23:48:52 <ShadowJK> uh, mkuimage maybe
Aug 22 23:49:35 <Xion345> Apparently, it's necessary to use the marvell one anyway
Aug 22 23:50:09 <Xion345> (And note the version you can find in ubuntu or debian)
Aug 22 23:51:15 <rektide> an hour?
Aug 22 23:51:31 <rektide> if you only lost an hour, you are doing better than most
Aug 22 23:52:02 <rektide> Xion345: i've used Debian's own mkimage just fine.
Aug 22 23:52:14 <Xion345> Really ?
Aug 22 23:52:41 <Xion345> I used the same command line inside debian lenny (nfs boot) and the marvell one
Aug 22 23:52:49 <Xion345> One works, the other doesn't
Aug 22 23:52:52 <Xion345> ...
Aug 22 23:53:06 <Xion345> Maybe you updated your uBoot ?
Aug 22 23:54:24 <Xion345> Mmh, now I get a "Kernel Panic, couldn't mount root"
Aug 22 23:54:26 <rektide> i still have stock uboot.
Aug 22 23:54:51 <Xion345> Err... it's black magic
Aug 22 23:55:01 <rektide> yes, yes it is
Aug 22 23:55:27 <Xion345> Do you know if debian kirkwood kernel supports nfsroot ?
Aug 22 23:55:53 <rektide> i cant imagine it wouldnt
Aug 22 23:56:02 <rektide> check the /boot/config for it
Aug 22 23:57:37 <Xion345> It's a module
Aug 22 23:57:45 <rektide> thats bogus
Aug 22 23:57:59 <rektide> i wonder if it'll work if you use initrd ?
Aug 22 23:58:09 <rektide> it should be in the initrd
Aug 22 23:58:23 <rektide> i just dont know if thats going to be soon enough for a root fs
Aug 22 23:58:32 <Xion345> Yes, but I don't know how to flash an initrd in the nand
Aug 22 23:59:40 <Xion345> I would be possible but tricky
Aug 22 23:59:58 <Xion345> I could create another mtd partition
Aug 22 23:59:59 <rektide> nand seemed like such a hastle; i'm just doing everything via a usb stick
Aug 23 00:00:18 <Xion345> It's not fun ! :-)
Aug 23 00:01:22 <rektide> yeah i got that impression very quickly
Aug 23 00:01:26 <rektide> hence why i fled.
Aug 23 00:01:31 <rektide> usb is easy as hell
Aug 23 00:01:54 <rektide> mount that into memory, mount that other thing into memory, ok now start.
Aug 23 00:02:55 <Xion345> nand isn't much more complicated
Aug 23 00:03:16 <rektide> yeah i guess you'd just need another mtd partitino for the uInitrd
Aug 23 00:03:45 <Xion345> I think so
Aug 23 00:04:16 <Xion345> But, my goal was to have the rootfs inside the nand
Aug 23 00:04:27 <Xion345> NFS was just for testing
Aug 23 00:04:43 <Xion345> I'll directly jump to the final step :-)
Aug 23 00:05:19 <rektide> having your only OS be in NAND is hardcore
Aug 23 00:05:21 <rektide> theres no fallback
Aug 23 00:05:38 <rektide> NFS, at when things go pear shaped you have somewhere else to go
Aug 23 00:06:06 <Xion345> That's right
Aug 23 00:06:20 <Xion345> But NAND should not fail
Aug 23 00:06:32 <Xion345> ?
Aug 23 00:07:35 <rektide> nand itself is fine, but who knows what you're going to end up doing to your system
Aug 23 00:07:46 <rektide> ;)
Aug 23 00:08:14 <rektide> some unfortunate accident is going to have you make your image unbootable in some fashion or another and then you'll have no OS to fallback on
Aug 23 00:09:00 <Xion345> In fact my idea was to have a read-only nand and mount the SD card as an overlay FS
Aug 23 00:09:08 <rektide> nniiiicceee
Aug 23 00:09:09 <rektide> stylin
Aug 23 00:09:51 <Xion345> This way, if I do stupid things, I just have to format the SD and restart
Aug 23 00:11:18 <Xion345> This is really black magic ! Now, the original uImage (provided with the dev kit) doesn't boot anymore
Aug 23 00:11:29 <Xion345> While the one I created does
Aug 23 00:14:04 <rektide> you know about the mainlineLinux env variable, right ?
Aug 23 00:14:34 <Xion345> Yes, I do
Aug 23 00:15:09 <Xion345> Do you know if it is necessary to saveenv for this variable ?
Aug 23 00:15:17 <rektide> saveenv AND reset
Aug 23 00:15:40 <Xion345> Mm, maybe I was using it the wrong way
Aug 23 00:16:05 <Xion345> I was just doing "setenv mainlineLinux yes"
Aug 23 00:16:13 <Xion345> and then directly boot
Aug 23 00:16:17 <rektide> that doesnt work
Aug 23 00:16:18 <rektide> no idea why
Aug 23 00:16:29 <Xion345> I can confirm it doesn't
Aug 23 00:16:33 <Xion345> :-)
Aug 23 00:17:27 <Xion345> I have also seen stuff about the arcNumber variable. Is it mandatory as well ?
Aug 23 00:17:46 <rektide> http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/ is the official list of arcNumbers
Aug 23 00:17:53 <rektide> 2097 is SheevaPlug
Aug 23 00:17:59 <rektide> you should be able to set it and forget
Aug 23 00:18:43 <rektide> it should work fine with the original kernel, and any kernel you build will need it to know what platform to boot
Aug 23 00:20:18 <Xion345> Thanks, I had no idea of what it was about
Aug 23 00:20:56 <Xion345> I imagine that it is hardcoded in the original kernel configuration
Aug 23 00:20:59 <rektide> i'm glad to spare the trouble
Aug 23 00:21:11 <rektide> yes i'm almost certain so
Aug 23 00:22:59 <tinker-f595> rektide: one button is harrdware reset. I think the other is eject for the SD slot.
Aug 23 00:23:18 <tinker-f595> I need to double check the sd slot theory
Aug 23 00:23:21 <Xion345> You were right it's not a question of debian mkimage or dev kit mkimage, it's a question of saving the env and resetting
Aug 23 00:23:47 <tinker-f595> Xion345: it is a question of reading the more than ample documentation that is supplied ;)
Aug 23 00:24:27 <rektide> i spent a couple hours on the openplug forum before i even got my system
Aug 23 00:24:41 <tinker-f595> rektide: that is smart
Aug 23 00:24:52 <Xion345> tinker-f595, seriously, I didn't see it in the doc
Aug 23 00:24:55 <rektide> its been pretty invaluable... i didnt know half of what i was reading, but i can make a lot of intuitive leaps that i would've been helpless to do
Aug 23 00:25:48 <Xion345> And some parts of the doc are just... funny
Aug 23 00:26:06 <rektide> i should download the Sheeva docs and compare to the OpenRD docs
Aug 23 00:26:13 <tinker-f595> rektide: I got out an old book of annonated kernel listings to understand some of the stuff uBoot  and uImage are doing
Aug 23 00:26:15 <rektide> <-- actually just has an OpenRD platform
Aug 23 00:26:24 <rektide> ooooh!  that sounds fun
Aug 23 00:26:35 <rektide> uBoot is some deep magic i'd like to know more about
Aug 23 00:27:22 <tinker-f595> both the Sheevaplug and the OpenRD devices have heavily hacked uBoot.  Not sure if all the changes to uBoot have gone upstream
Aug 23 00:27:39 <tinker-f595> rektide: what sounds fun?
Aug 23 00:27:48 <rektide> i dont see any compelling reason to upgrade to mainline uBoot
Aug 23 00:27:58 <rektide> but at some point, after I know its been merged, its on the todo list.
Aug 23 00:28:21 <rektide> tinker-f595: old book of annotated kernel listings for divining what uBoot & uImage are doing
Aug 23 00:28:28 <tinker-f595> well it would be pointless to go to mainline you boot until it gets patches from the Marvell devs etc
Aug 23 00:28:31 <rektide> tinker-f595: how did your OLPC-XS meeting go ?
Aug 23 00:28:59 <tinker-f595> It went OK.  Took a while of fiddling to get the floor mounted power sockets open (:
Aug 23 00:30:09 <tinker-f595> there were a group of south africans there talking about a deployment in a remote village there. Sounds like the south African schools are very top down with much rote instruction
Aug 23 00:30:55 <rektide> hard to imagine how something that encourages experimentation like an OLPC really fits that agenda
Aug 23 00:31:48 <tinker-f595> well people are trying to change that.  A society can only go so far without encouraging curiosity
Aug 23 00:32:27 <tinker-f595> Used my XO as a serial terminal when I was booting the plug so I could find out which ip address it was using.
Aug 23 00:32:39 <tinker-f595> XO and minicom makes a good serial terminal
Aug 23 00:34:23 <rektide> i used to be a pretty big OpenWRT nutter
Aug 23 00:34:47 <rektide> before realizing that a overheating power sucking 200 MIPS box was not really that useful
Aug 23 00:34:57 <rektide> *200MHz MIPS
Aug 23 00:35:01 <tinker-f595> I had dd-wrt on my spare router...had not booted it in a few years and forgot the password
Aug 23 00:35:08 <rektide> hehe
Aug 23 00:35:26 <rektide> i have quite a few hardware units I got off ebay bulk really cheap; WGT634U's
Aug 23 00:35:39 <tinker-f595> what cpu ?
Aug 23 00:35:59 <Xion345> rektide, yes but before kirkwood based appeared, WRT were very attractive platforms
Aug 23 00:36:03 <rektide> one of em has some prehistoric install, and basically the only thing it gets used for is microcom to talk 3.3v serial/rs-232 to the other units, for flashing &all
Aug 23 00:36:04 <tinker-f595> also can you reflash them with foss router software?
Aug 23 00:36:06 <Xion345> *devices
Aug 23 00:36:22 <rektide> tinker-f595: some god awful broadcom crap
Aug 23 00:36:24 <Xion345> tinker-f595, yes, like openWRT
Aug 23 00:36:36 <tinker-f595> so enough storage
Aug 23 00:37:36 <rektide> and yes, the boards run OpenWRT.  8mb flash/ 32mb ram.  it has USB2.0 and hardware crypto onboard, but the usb2.0 is cpu limited to ~2MB/s and no one's gotten the crypto working
Aug 23 00:38:06 <rektide> http://wiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/openwrtdocs/hardware/netgear/wgt634u
Aug 23 00:38:14 <rektide> Broadcom 5365P
Aug 23 00:39:26 <tinker-f595> hmmm
Aug 23 00:39:56 <rektide> again, it was fun till i realized it was a slow power sucking hog
Aug 23 00:40:14 <rektide> 11w, for no apparent reason.
Aug 23 00:40:47 <rektide> i was using one as a car computer with usb audio, usb hd, gps, ati remote wonder
Aug 23 00:41:03 <rektide> until i got sick of its flaky underperformant BS
Aug 23 00:41:40 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 23 00:49:53 <Plax> I'd like to use a sheevaplug as an access point: are there USB wi-fi dongles that can supply a good enough amount of power to the antennas to have a decent range?
Aug 23 00:52:50 <rektide> Plax: http://rokland.com
Aug 23 00:53:10 <rektide> yes, but which in particular i should recommend depend on what you are looking for
Aug 23 00:54:09 <rektide> if at all possible, wait for the Realtek RTL8192U chipset based units to appear; its Realtek's first 802.11n next-gen-at-large wifi chip
Aug 23 00:55:51 <Plax> the problem is finding dongles with chipsets compatible with linux, where the drivers support master mode and also that support external antennas
Aug 23 00:56:28 <rektide> Realtek's current hardware is fairly well supported
Aug 23 00:56:53 <rektide> http://rokland.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=294 has stellar linux support and is the absolute best hardware on the market today.
Aug 23 00:57:00 <rektide> its based on a Ralink chipset
Aug 23 00:57:23 <rektide> err, thats the Alfa realtek, my mistake, wrong link
Aug 23 00:57:41 <Plax> how much do you think it would take for products with the new realtek chip to be released?
Aug 23 00:58:23 <rektide> original release date was this past week... still no word unfortunately. :/
Aug 23 00:58:33 <rektide> http://rokland.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=336 <-- the N3 I intended to link
Aug 23 00:59:13 <Xion345> Since we are talking about wifi, does someone know if it is possible tu use olsrd with intel 3945 chipset ?
Aug 23 00:59:29 <rektide> 350 mW, RP-SMA antenna jack, superlative sensitivity
Aug 23 01:00:43 <Plax> is it normal for a 802.11n device to have just one antenna? I thought the standard required all devices to have at least two
Aug 23 01:01:07 <rektide> Plax: I have never seen an USB wifi device with >1 antenna jack
Aug 23 01:09:24 <Xion345> Good bye everybody
Aug 23 01:09:29 <rektide> *wave*
Aug 23 01:09:41 <Xion345> And thanks rektide for the help
Aug 23 01:09:48 <rektide> *bow*
Aug 23 01:09:51 <Xion345> (I have to sleep)
Aug 23 01:10:18 <Plax> they don't seem to be shipping in italy :(
Aug 23 01:10:57 <rektide> Plax: the Alfa unit I linked is the next best thing.  500mW, aka even more power, but not quite as good a receiver sensitivity.
Aug 23 01:11:06 <rektide> and it should be more readily available.
Aug 23 01:24:42 <Plax> yes a lot of people is selling the alfa dongle on ebay but I'd really like having wi-fi n so I think I'll wait for a dongle with the new realtek chipset
Aug 23 01:25:11 <Plax> I saw there's one on sale on dealxtreme but it doesn't support an external antenna
Aug 23 01:26:41 <rektide> tinker-f595: have you tried using a Marvell git tree?
Aug 23 01:27:30 <rektide> I think the only thing wrong with mine is that the RTC doesnt load.  the driver for rtc-mv checks to see if the clock is ticking, which mine doesnt appear to do anywhere, so it dies.
Aug 23 01:27:46 <rektide> (i'm just a bleeding edge kind of guy... that and better wifi support. :)
Aug 23 01:28:24 <rektide> Plax: if its an Alfa awus036h, it has an anetnna jack.
Aug 23 01:36:14 <Plax> I'll keep waiting for a while to see if anything with the newer chipset is released and in case it isn't I'll buy the Alfa that seems to be easily available
Aug 23 01:36:24 <Plax> thanks for the info
Aug 23 01:36:49 <Plax> tinker-f595: thanks for your info earlier too
Aug 23 01:36:49 <rektide> good luck
Aug 23 01:59:32 <rektide> have you seen the QNAP- TS-219P?'
Aug 23 01:59:49 <rektide> its a NAS built on kirkwood
Aug 23 02:01:32 <rektide> 2x internal SATA and 2x external from a JMB362.
Aug 23 02:04:03 <rektide> $400, which isnt bad for a NAS that doubles as a decent computer
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 23 02:59:56 2009