**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 20 02:59:57 2009 Sep 20 03:00:44 32 bit addressing limitations.... ridiculous Sep 20 03:01:00 i think the freescale cores have similar if not quite so dreadful limitations Sep 20 03:01:15 has a single-precision and double-precision IEEE compliant FPU Sep 20 03:01:48 dual isue at that Sep 20 03:01:54 aint no altive Sep 20 03:02:06 but its better than noothing Sep 20 03:02:28 i dont even remember the ARM SIMD name Sep 20 03:02:31 from the functional specs "The SDRAM controller supports up to four DRAM banks. It supports different DIMM configurations Sep 20 03:02:31 and on-board topology with up to 4GB DRAM space." Sep 20 03:03:28 eventually these micros are going to have to go 64 bit Sep 20 03:03:58 depends on what they are being used for Sep 20 03:04:01 P.A. Semi had an incredible 64 bit PowerPC ... before they got baughbought by apple Sep 20 03:04:20 hmmm Sep 20 03:04:33 so what is apple doing with that? Sep 20 03:04:39 sure theres plenty of places whre 4GB is more than enough, but there needs to be an option Sep 20 03:05:25 bring back 4k ram ;) Sep 20 03:05:25 no one really knows. its fairly certain they're making ARM chips for MID/Tablet and maybe eventually iPhone Sep 20 03:05:50 yes but what happened to the PPC Sep 20 03:06:08 i'd like to see xservers with 8 or 12 quad core PPC's, which PA semi would've been capable of doing in a 1u 2 years ago Sep 20 03:06:14 but it'll never happen Sep 20 03:06:16 PPC is dead Sep 20 03:06:22 I think apple jumped too quickly to Intel Sep 20 03:06:42 well, pa semi was trying to sell ppc to apple Sep 20 03:06:52 and for a while it seemed like a sure thing Sep 20 03:07:32 the pa semi chip was amazing. quad core 2ghz with integrated _everything_ in a 25w poewr budget. insane altivec for mad fpu. huge ram pipe, 10g ethernet, ... Sep 20 03:07:44 this was in 2007 Sep 20 03:07:51 but apple got cold feet Sep 20 03:07:58 gees and they went to intel Sep 20 03:08:25 and a year latter, aftergoing totally intel, apple goes back and buys the company outright and shuts down the ppc Sep 20 03:08:42 dumb Sep 20 03:09:10 theres a sense to it all, but it a very very tragic tale for the embedded world. great loss. Sep 20 03:10:39 and if it have been invested in it would of been even better Sep 20 03:10:56 and it would've sparked immense competition Sep 20 03:11:17 arm would be fighting, hard, against a bleeding edge SoC Sep 20 03:11:39 and i think atom would be a joke, with its craptacular chipsets Sep 20 03:12:09 well intel I think is in for some surprises. They have an incredible arrogance Sep 20 03:12:53 theres just not competition anymore unfortunately Sep 20 03:13:30 ARM is trying but its such a bloody simple architecture Sep 20 03:13:38 well intel stuff is too power hungry and throws off too much heat so it needs cooling Sep 20 03:13:44 in order, hell, it only just went superscalar Sep 20 03:14:07 atom is dead simple, and its fairly power efficient itself Sep 20 03:14:14 but intel doesnt have any big picture sensibility Sep 20 03:14:30 teeny cpu, plus a northbridge, plus a southbridge, both of which suck large power Sep 20 03:14:30 there is a big pent up demand for systems that do not consume too much electricity Sep 20 03:14:53 yep Sep 20 03:15:39 they're realizing that SoC is important Sep 20 03:15:47 that everything needs to be on package Sep 20 03:15:58 and that total power budget, not just cpu power budget, is important Sep 20 03:16:08 but man, they just suck horribly at building platforms. Sep 20 03:16:37 their graphics are god awful, they refuse to implement the most primtiive platform essentials (command based switching -- FIS-- for sata) Sep 20 03:16:55 and they're taking a completely piece-meal approach to integrating pieces on die Sep 20 03:17:01 never particularly cared for x86...they were an accidental success Sep 20 03:17:11 agreed Sep 20 03:17:33 this bipartisan ARM/x86 system is hardly much better though Sep 20 03:17:54 each system plays to its roots, without real market competition Sep 20 03:18:08 a strong PPC would've kept both sides on their toes Sep 20 03:18:31 well if IBM had not chosen intel for the original PC some other would of been popular Sep 20 03:18:32 ppc had gone radically SoC after G4 Sep 20 03:19:44 rektide: so does IBM still have any low end ppc or all their ppc line high end for their heavy duty boxes? Sep 20 03:20:58 ibm doesnt directly do ppc anymore, not really. but its the only architecture they know, so when they have to do processors, its always "ppc inspired" Sep 20 03:21:34 rektide: so they do not even make them for their unix boxes and as400 ? Sep 20 03:22:14 their big iron is Power, which long ago was PPC Sep 20 03:22:57 they made Cell, which has a more or less recognizablnormal PPC processor in it Sep 20 03:23:21 and they made the xbox360 cpu, which has 3 very simple stripped down ppc's in it Sep 20 03:23:32 hmmmm Sep 20 03:24:10 but but to my knowledge, no one is using the workstation ppc970 lines or any lineage from that Sep 20 03:27:04 thats really why pa semi was so damned interesting & cpompetitive Sep 20 03:27:48 they got the guy who lead XScale and MIPS for a while, and a bunch of veteran DEC and XScale and PPC engineers together Sep 20 03:27:54 and rebuilt PPc from scratch Sep 20 03:29:29 whereas freescale is just iterating the ibm/motorola designs Sep 20 03:34:21 interesting team Sep 20 03:35:05 maybe apple bought them just to kill them. Stop an upstart Sep 20 03:37:48 nah they werent a threat to apple;apple was just sitting on a pile of gold and decided to buy an obvious ace, even if they didnt have plans for what to do with the ace Sep 20 03:39:40 it was kind of insurance against intel, & whatever unknowns were out there in the mobile world Sep 20 03:43:05 rektide: apple seems to see themselves as more of a music seller these days Sep 20 03:43:55 music is just the front door Sep 20 03:44:05 apple wants to sell easy to use ecosystems Sep 20 03:44:10 very profitable for them Sep 20 03:44:20 aren't there rumors about an apple tablet with a CPU by pasemi? Sep 20 03:44:22 they want to own your entire technological infrastructure Sep 20 03:44:28 ShadowJK: yes, likely ARM Sep 20 03:44:45 rektide: I am certain it is arm Sep 20 03:45:16 because of a response from a high up at apple to a question I asked them at a party last spring Sep 20 03:46:03 it'd make sense, as apple has invested greatly in ARM Sep 20 03:46:20 they've optimized the hell out of ARM & OpenGL on ARM Sep 20 03:46:35 (via the creation of llvm, and drivers written using llvm) Sep 20 03:47:03 I'm starting to realize that CPU is only half of the work towards low energy use.. Sep 20 03:47:07 the other is in kernel and os :/ Sep 20 03:47:27 but it wouldnt be entirely unreasonable to switch architectures Sep 20 03:47:31 and power bus management Sep 20 03:47:47 ShadowJK: i had a fujitsu p1120 i got down to ~3.5 watts playing mp3's with. Sep 20 03:48:11 ShadowJK: i went from ~2.5hrs to 6hrs of battery life in the first year of owning it, by tweaking my system Sep 20 03:48:39 my NIT sits idling (screen off) with xchat open connected to freenode via wifi, consuming about 20-30mA @ 3.7V Sep 20 03:48:42 and that was a fairly unsophisticated platform. no power bus management to speak of, just a cpu driver. Sep 20 03:48:55 what is a NIT ? Sep 20 03:49:00 nokia internet tablet Sep 20 03:49:11 which model? Sep 20 03:49:16 810 Sep 20 03:49:22 I have an 800 too Sep 20 03:50:04 My SmartQ7 eats so much power at idle (screen off, no CPU load, wifi off, usb off) that it chews through its 4000mA battery in a day Sep 20 03:50:15 hmmm Sep 20 03:50:38 I wonder what the performance of the nokia n900 will be like Sep 20 03:50:39 i'm excited for maemo5 Sep 20 03:50:50 The kernel has no code afaik for the power gating features of the samsung CPU in it, and no "sleep while idle" support like there is for TI Omap... atleast it seems like that Sep 20 03:51:03 tinker-f595: its a pretty normal OMAP3 cpu; you can buy a beagleboard dev kit for $150 and find out Sep 20 03:51:07 rektide: I was thinking about maemo5 earlier today. Sep 20 03:51:28 rektide I know about BB Sep 20 03:51:51 the one lament i have is that none of the OS's are thinking about multi-monitor support in mobile Sep 20 03:52:06 OMAP4 has 1080P output support Sep 20 03:52:19 yes it certainly does Sep 20 03:52:32 we really need to start thinking about how to use these systems as desktop replacements Sep 20 03:53:00 and maemo, by actually being linux, unlike that bastard child Android, ought have the easiest path forward Sep 20 03:53:02 I have been wondering if the maemo base has any dependencies on the omap hardawre or if it can be built successfully for other arm Sep 20 03:53:20 well Sep 20 03:53:31 rektide: I never understood the fuss about android Sep 20 03:53:41 There's a community edition of Maemo without the nokia proprietary bits, it's been built for various devices Sep 20 03:54:16 maemo would be so much more interesting if they'd try and go open source, try and support diverse platforms. Sep 20 03:54:52 tinker-f595: well, it is a decent mobile/consumer electronics development suite, and its free. thats kind of the story. Sep 20 03:54:55 Nokia is kinda solution/experience oriented on it. They collect use cases, build the software for it, then check what hardware they'll need to run it on Sep 20 03:55:30 I thought maemo was open source? Sep 20 03:55:41 There are some specific bits that aren't Sep 20 03:55:42 it just seems like Nokia is limiting Maemo adoption by keeping the reins on hardware, and that they're missing the greater network externality Sep 20 03:55:44 Like, um, themes Sep 20 03:55:47 and fonts Sep 20 03:55:48 heh Sep 20 03:56:07 it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Qt shift Sep 20 03:56:20 wonder how difficult it would be to get maemo working on the openrd client Sep 20 03:56:25 if Nokia really is re-invisioning the platform, maybe it wont be quite as locked in Sep 20 03:56:59 With the community edition, Nokia has opened up alot of bits that was closed before Sep 20 03:57:41 and they GPL'd QT Sep 20 03:58:08 the community edition, Mer (MaEmo Reconstructed) is API compatible with Maemo5 :) Sep 20 03:58:18 link? Sep 20 03:58:40 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Sep 20 03:58:41 has anyone got angstrom on the openrd? Sep 20 03:58:49 ShadowJK: thank you Sep 20 03:59:53 i cant tell whether angstrom is a kernel buildroot, or a platform buildroot Sep 20 04:00:04 Oh, yeah, the nokia connectivity daemon is closed and probably wont be opened. Mer is using NetworkManager instead Sep 20 04:00:13 it certainly doesnt appear to be anything nearly as flushed out as a distribution Sep 20 04:00:14 seems like there's a constant struggle with NM :) Sep 20 04:00:37 networkmanager is an abomination. /etc/network/interfaces is the one true way. ;) Sep 20 04:01:25 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed Sep 20 04:01:26 this is cool Sep 20 04:01:32 haha Sep 20 04:02:53 that page is kinda outdated, but tells you a bit how they got started Sep 20 04:04:52 hm, or not :) Sep 20 04:05:30 * ShadowJK is going to replace his SmartQ's firmware with Mer eventually... Sep 20 04:05:48 what ARM is Kirkwood? is it a ARMv5/6/7 ? Sep 20 04:06:01 5? Sep 20 04:06:43 ARMv5TE-compliant Sep 20 04:08:34 the N900 is going to set me back half a kiloeuro :-( Sep 20 04:08:48 hmmm Sep 20 04:08:48 this is not a healthy obsession Sep 20 04:08:55 I should go back to collecting old Sun junk. Sep 20 04:08:57 ShadowJK: where are you? Sep 20 04:09:00 .fi Sep 20 04:09:10 hmmmm Sep 20 04:09:24 nokia home turf Sep 20 04:11:25 I passed on the mer link to someone that has a n810. They appreciated the link Sep 20 04:12:25 Let's say the "out of box" experience with Mer is a bit less than with maemo4, about the only thing preinstalled is the application manager :) Sep 20 04:12:29 and xterm Sep 20 04:13:13 no emacs? Sep 20 04:13:44 let's not start :) Sep 20 04:13:51 haha Sep 20 04:13:54 i have both old sun junk (like sun e420r) and new arm thingnies (openrd-client, and i preordered N900) Sep 20 04:14:04 OpenFirmware has emacs Sep 20 04:15:07 i am so /whois arachnist Sep 20 04:15:26 uh oops. Sep 20 04:15:31 ? Sep 20 04:17:02 * ShadowJK has a Sparcstation 5, a Netra T105, and a Sun Blade 150 (iirc, it's a desktop thingy despite the name) Sep 20 04:17:56 Linksys NSLU2, SheevaPlug, N800, N810, SmartQ7 Sep 20 04:17:58 :) Sep 20 04:18:06 too much junk Sep 20 04:18:54 I'm sure there'd be people who'd take the sun gear, but it's not tempting to to consider the shipping costs for the crazy cast iron case they're built in... :) Sep 20 04:19:14 hehehe Sep 20 04:19:32 my e420r seems to weight around 20kg Sep 20 04:23:32 my non-x86/amd64 stuff: Efika, MyCable XXS1500 (MIPS), rackmount netwinder, beagleboard, TinCan Nail Sep 20 04:24:09 and the MV78100 dev board now Sep 20 04:25:54 i have only wrt54gl for mipsel Sep 20 04:26:48 i'm so glad to be out of the mipsel ghetto Sep 20 04:27:17 i had two wrt54gs's and a stack of wgt634u's Sep 20 04:29:02 i'd like to build a Freescale system on my own in the future Sep 20 04:29:27 robbat2|na's Efika brought that to mind Sep 20 04:29:39 i'm looking for a nice 802.11n router on which i could put openwrt and still get all the hardware features (gigabit ethernet and, ofcourse, 802.11n) Sep 20 04:30:48 WRT160NL Sep 20 04:31:24 atheros AR9102 wifi Sep 20 04:31:52 "OpenWrt support Sep 20 04:31:53 WORK IN PROGRESS DO NOT FLASH IF YOU LACK SERIAL CONSOLE" Sep 20 04:31:58 hehe Sep 20 04:32:13 i've got to get my openrd setup as a wifi base station... the rt2x00 kernel tree has support for my usb wifi card in AP mode. Sep 20 04:32:33 unfortunately no one makes a really good USB 802.11n card yet Sep 20 04:33:12 how so? driver support? Sep 20 04:33:30 ralink's rt2800usb has tolerable driver support. Sep 20 04:33:43 its just mimo... Sep 20 04:33:55 no one wants to implement 2T/2R Sep 20 04:34:03 2 transmitter / 2 receiver Sep 20 04:34:35 my Alfa AWUS050NH has 1 transmitter at 500 mW, and 2 receivers, one of which is integrated onboard and one of which connects to the antenna Sep 20 04:34:36 never heard of the nrt160nl till now - that seems like the most powerful router hardware put to linux so far Sep 20 04:35:24 whats really needed is a rt2800usb with two antenna jacks, each at 300+mW, with the receivers coupled to the antennas. directional mimo is necessary. Sep 20 04:35:42 engenius makes a dual jack rt2800usb, but its like 30mW. screw that. Sep 20 04:36:06 looking on there site, whats the difference between dual channel n and wireless n? Sep 20 04:37:42 5ghz band Sep 20 04:37:48 every transmitter/receiver is another connection on a different frequency, each giving you 150mbps and a potential path that wont be interrupted. Sep 20 04:38:13 oh sorry, yeah, robbat2 is correct. Sep 20 04:38:38 ah i see Sep 20 04:39:42 hmm Sep 20 04:40:20 having distcc set up with my amd64 desktop, really helps getting stuff compiled on my openrd Sep 20 04:40:58 you just compile from openrd and distcc does cross compiling ? Sep 20 04:41:41 i compile with one local job on the openrd and 5 jobs for the desktop Sep 20 04:42:03 i wasnt aware distcc knew how to cross compile, thats pretty cool Sep 20 04:42:21 distcc doesn't care about it Sep 20 04:43:18 all you have to do, is: having a crosscompiler installed (so you get all the armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi-{g++,gcc} etc installed) Sep 20 04:43:37 and proper symlinks in /usr/lib/distcc/bin Sep 20 04:44:22 http://dpaste.com/95757/ Sep 20 04:44:37 nice find Sep 20 04:44:44 i just cross compile from the desktop, but that may be more convenient Sep 20 04:45:09 time to sleep, night night all Sep 20 04:45:12 c'ya Sep 20 04:56:25 distcc and crosscompiling are the two things gentoo was always good at Sep 20 04:56:40 they have a tiny team of brains that keeps that magic going Sep 20 04:57:42 rektide: if you distcc and it works, you get the work of all distcc machines and the work of the arm machine Sep 20 04:58:56 i might also get my core2duo 1.2GHz laptop to work in the distcc... Sep 20 05:00:07 [04:35:57] -looking on there site, whats the difference between dual channel n and wireless n? <--- if you go dual channel N, make sure you get dual radios as well Sep 20 05:00:37 then you can dedicate 2.4ghz to other duties than 5ghz, all on N Sep 20 05:01:10 i got a dual band, single radio router (WRT320N) and i can't even use 5ghz, since it's single radio, there wouldn't be 2.4ghz for my wife's wireless G Sep 20 05:01:43 awe, boo Sep 20 05:03:01 nah, i don't want my laptop in the distcc. i'd have to get portage back in a usable state to make crossdev work Sep 20 05:17:52 why i portage not in a usable state? Sep 20 05:17:59 wb SuperRoach Sep 20 05:23:30 morfic: well... i removed /etc/make.* (which is not very hard to recreate, considering i have paludis configuration files i could base on) Sep 20 05:30:03 oh, goodies: Sep 20 05:30:04 hive ~ # du -shxc /data0/netboot/sys_armv5tel/ Sep 20 05:30:04 467M /data0/netboot/sys_armv5tel/ Sep 20 05:30:14 it'll fit in the internal flash :) Sep 20 05:30:57 Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on Sep 20 05:30:57 /dev/mtdblock1 447M 370M 77M 83% / Sep 20 05:31:01 ok, not yet Sep 20 13:27:59 Hello all Sep 20 13:28:06 I'm trying to get the kernel and u-boot built... Sep 20 13:28:15 i patched u-boot to get it built with an EABI toolchain Sep 20 13:28:20 and I have a .bin and a .kwb Sep 20 13:28:36 They are 4 times smaller than the u-boot.bin I got once. Sep 20 13:28:50 (I'm using the latest git revision from git.marvell.com) Sep 20 13:29:12 Should I be afraid of that u-boot? Sep 20 13:29:22 I wonder if I can test the u-boot running it from DRAM before flashing Sep 20 13:29:27 (without openocd) Sep 20 15:14:53 hah Sep 20 15:15:02 ppl are crazy Sep 20 15:15:17 * armin76 wonders if that was zumbi :P Sep 20 15:51:49 Hi, anyone run spamassassin on SheevaPlug? The faq openly admits it's a memory hog, but how much? Will a single user mail system on a sheevaplug cope? Sep 20 16:05:10 Hi Sep 20 16:05:39 MarkGil: my email VM (x86) has 256M of ram, with spamassassin, and seems to work ok Sep 20 16:50:01 Is there a "lite" spam assassin package? It wants to bring in all sorts of useless crap when I apt-get install spamassassin Sep 20 16:50:12 in Ubuntu (forgot that bit) Sep 20 16:58:16 MarkGil: what sort of useless stuff? Sep 20 17:02:30 cpp cpp-4.3 gcc gcc-4.3 Sep 20 17:02:46 not useless per-se, but not great for an embedded system Sep 20 17:24:57 strange Sep 20 17:32:22 heh, thats the down side of binary distros :) Sep 20 17:38:08 armin76: no that is the downside of ubuntu. I have nticed that ubuntu has packages with unecessary dependencies Sep 20 17:45:01 Hello all Sep 20 17:46:21 hi viric, no there's no way to run u-boot on dram without openocd Sep 20 17:46:34 and you should be glad you can use openocd for that :) Sep 20 17:47:09 the only other way i know of testing u-boot without breaking the installed one is flashing the new into the flash on another address Sep 20 17:47:18 and then boot the new u-boot using the old one Sep 20 17:47:42 that was on sh, haven't tried on arm Sep 20 17:48:12 ok Sep 20 17:48:15 Yes, I'm glad Sep 20 17:48:17 I installed opneocd Sep 20 17:48:21 let's see... Sep 20 17:48:37 openocd Sep 20 17:48:45 I'm still building some linux parts... Sep 20 17:48:54 Why some config.guess don't guess I have a gnueabi system? Sep 20 17:49:00 (for example, strace and glibc) Sep 20 17:49:35 no clue :) Sep 20 17:49:42 :) Sep 20 17:49:58 Is the flashable uboot different than the u-boot.bin Sep 20 17:49:58 ? Sep 20 17:50:05 That's what I infere from the wiki... Sep 20 17:50:16 So to try in dram, I should use u-boot.bin Sep 20 17:52:24 viric: because they are too old Sep 20 17:52:39 viric: yes, correct Sep 20 17:53:36 Md: i don't think the .bin works on dram Sep 20 17:53:50 don't you need the elf one? Sep 20 17:55:05 Md: too old? ok, maybe. Sep 20 17:55:10 armin76: elf? Sep 20 17:55:16 u-boot.elf? Sep 20 17:55:56 viric: i don't remember, i think its just called u-boot Sep 20 17:56:14 ah Sep 20 17:56:24 I'll look at the make targets Sep 20 17:58:58 Do you know if u-boot will cope well reading symlinks from an ext2fs, for example? Sep 20 17:59:21 viric: did you look at the instructions in the use guide on the cd? That will give you useful hints on building a custom uboot Sep 20 17:59:32 u-boot-2009.08 # file u-boot* Sep 20 17:59:32 u-boot: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, not stripped Sep 20 17:59:32 u-boot.bin: data Sep 20 17:59:32 u-boot.lds: ASCII assembler program text Sep 20 17:59:32 u-boot.map: ASCII assembler program text Sep 20 17:59:32 u-boot.srec: Motorola S-Record; binary data in text format Sep 20 17:59:36 the first one Sep 20 17:59:40 armin76: great Sep 20 17:59:44 tinker-f595: I looked at them... Sep 20 17:59:51 tinker-f595: but I'm not using their zip files Sep 20 18:00:01 I'm using the git.marvell.com u-boot Sep 20 18:00:07 Btw, I get a 4 times smaller u-boot from that. Sep 20 18:00:18 (with make sheevaplug_config) Sep 20 18:00:33 viric: basic proceure should be the same and extrapolate what you need to change for what your are doing Sep 20 18:01:04 I also like asking and learning from others, what they have to comment, ... :) Sep 20 18:01:09 I hope I don't annoy Sep 20 18:01:33 don't be afraid to experiment Sep 20 18:02:59 meanwhile I have the sheevaplug busy Sep 20 18:03:04 until I'll experiment Sep 20 18:03:55 it is amazing how much time one can spend playing with the sheevaplug. Sep 20 18:04:14 :) yes Sep 20 18:04:23 I'm porting a GNU/Linux OS... Sep 20 18:04:42 let's see if I success. Sep 20 18:04:47 which one? Sep 20 18:05:02 I already spent nearly two months of non-job time on that Sep 20 18:05:09 NixOS Sep 20 18:05:34 Which is the only GNU/Linux OS I want to use since some time ago. Also in the Sheevaplug Sep 20 18:05:36 have not come across that distro Sep 20 18:05:49 It was also my first contact with non-x86 & non-x86_64 Sep 20 18:05:52 so, nice. Sep 20 18:06:51 sheevaplug and openrd client have gotten me to start learning ARM assembly as I wanted to understand the ARM linux kernel boot sequence Sep 20 18:07:05 what is openrd? Sep 20 18:07:21 just a second Sep 20 18:07:30 I learnt arm assembly mostly for debugging, so I read it, but I don't speak it. Sep 20 18:08:07 http://www.open-rd.org/ Sep 20 18:08:28 another set of kirkwood based systems Sep 20 18:09:21 ah ok Sep 20 18:10:19 viric: I have a few different assembly languages under my belt so it was fairly easy to get to the stage of understanding arm enough to read it. Found some good tutorials online Sep 20 18:10:32 me too. Sep 20 18:11:19 have any tried to make u-boot follow symlinks loading images from a fs? Sep 20 18:12:31 viric: that is on my to do list Sep 20 18:13:16 Are you a person who would implement that in u-boot because it's lacking, and that's what you plan to do? Sep 20 18:13:25 nah Sep 20 18:13:29 ok Sep 20 18:13:36 If it did not work I would report it as a bug Sep 20 18:13:48 ah, so let's expect it works. Sep 20 18:14:13 there are people out there with more free time and actually being paid to do those sort of things Sep 20 18:14:38 maybe. Sep 20 18:14:39 but they need the feedback if it is not working Sep 20 18:14:44 sure. Sep 20 18:14:46 Btw Sep 20 18:14:56 I wondered, how to get the tagged releases from git.marvell.com ? Sep 20 18:15:10 most of the hardware mnaufacturers seem to have people working on these sort of issues Sep 20 18:15:22 getting 'snapshots' from their git web viewer provides a targz with a changing md5sum every time Sep 20 18:16:32 viric: well sym links are in the linux file systems feature set so should be supported Sep 20 18:16:38 else it is a bug Sep 20 18:16:42 ok Sep 20 18:17:36 so, what u-boot versions are you using in the sheevaplug? Sep 20 18:17:43 and why those? Sep 20 18:17:54 I simply took the HEAD of the git repo. Sep 20 18:19:24 I am using the one that came with the alapha 6 installer Sep 20 18:19:56 what is that? Alpha 6 installer? Sep 20 18:20:33 hmmmm sounds like you don't read the forum Sep 20 18:20:42 ah, not at all Sep 20 18:20:51 I came here today for the first time Sep 20 18:21:17 http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?action=forum Sep 20 18:21:31 http://plugcomputer.org/ Sep 20 18:22:35 Look in the General Discussions first Sep 20 18:31:10 ah ok Sep 20 18:31:13 found it. Sep 20 18:31:32 it doesn't fit much my needs, but I can get knowledge from the scripts in the installer Sep 20 18:32:38 how big is your u-boot.bin, or u-boot.kwb? Sep 20 18:32:41 172KB here Sep 20 18:32:45 isn't that small? Sep 20 18:43:29 why? Sep 20 18:48:28 viric: the marvell u-boot that comes with the sheevaplug is a really old version and is heavily patched Sep 20 18:48:37 code tend to get optimized, and so does the size :) Sep 20 18:49:01 168k here, but i used upstream u-boot Sep 20 19:07:24 ok. Yes, me too, with upstream uboo Sep 20 19:07:24 t Sep 20 19:30:08 Hi guys, I just got a SheevaPlug and there's lots I don't know. I'm exploring options for running the system from an SD card rather than flash, and wrote this post on PlugForum (and another a little farther down): http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=183.msg4656#msg4656 Sep 20 19:30:39 It seems like the newest SheevaPlug installer can automatically configure the plug to boot from/use an SD card? Sep 20 19:31:01 I'm not sure how that's different than the custom patched U-Boot discussed in the thread I linked Sep 20 19:31:06 any thoughts? Sep 20 19:31:17 I haven't tried the SD boot from any of them Sep 20 19:31:27 tinker-f595 uses one of those installers Sep 20 19:31:33 I don't know if from sd card Sep 20 19:31:41 there is a wiki page for the installers Sep 20 19:32:02 I've seen it Sep 20 19:32:37 the instructions bundled with the installer are worthless, and there are a few scattered forum posts containing more intelligble instructions, but I can't tell if the installer will accomplish what I want Sep 20 19:41:15 So I guess I'll ask directly: Anyone know if the custom U-Boot SD boot solution in the forums is different than what the SheevaPlug installer MMC install accomplishes, and if so, how? Sep 20 19:41:28 tidalwav1: you need to actually actively read the instructions, not just skim them Sep 20 19:41:35 and read the wiki page Sep 20 19:41:52 tinker-f595: not sure what you're getting at, I've read those Sep 20 19:42:07 the instructions bundled with the installer are very hard to follow Sep 20 19:42:18 well from you said it seems like you skimmed and did not read the details Sep 20 19:42:29 they are very step by step Sep 20 19:42:45 plus their is more info in the forum Sep 20 19:42:57 yes, I've looked through that as well Sep 20 19:42:59 and the wiki Sep 20 19:43:30 the one thing I do not like about the latest installer is that it uses php Sep 20 19:43:48 previous alpha versions used shell Sep 20 19:44:03 it seems like the installer can do an installation that boots from and uses an SD card for the root FS, which leaves me wondering about the purpose of the U-Boot on the forums Sep 20 19:44:19 yeah, I noticed that, weird choice to use PHP Sep 20 19:44:33 tidalwav it still uses u-boot Sep 20 19:44:59 I understand Sep 20 19:45:23 but it seems like the capability discussed in the forums is now built in to the installer Sep 20 19:45:42 I'm asking if that's true, or if there's something I'm missing Sep 20 19:45:54 I would of left it using shell and suggested to people that wanted to use Windows as a host to install the cygwin base Sep 20 19:46:08 yeah Sep 20 19:46:17 well looking at the script, it'd be pretty easy to port back to shell Sep 20 19:46:27 well need to get going -- be back in a few hours...off on a hike Sep 20 19:47:04 k, thanks for the discussion but I still have no answers :'( enjoy your hike Sep 20 19:47:31 tidalwav1: you may find the u-boot.bin file in the installer, and try it Sep 20 19:47:40 tidalwav1: and similar with that in the forums Sep 20 19:48:04 I guess I'm not asking clearly Sep 20 19:48:06 When I have to use Windows I always install cygwin...makes it usable Sep 20 19:48:25 well off on my hike...so chat later Sep 20 19:49:36 what about jffs2,yafs and ubifs? Sep 20 19:49:46 viric: if the installer can create a system that boots from SD, does the forum thread have a point anymore? Is it for people that don't want to blatantly wipe/reinstall? Sep 20 19:50:03 tidalwav1: do you suggest removing forum threads? Sep 20 19:50:15 tidalwav1: for example, I only wanted an u-boot, and I didn't want the installer at all. Sep 20 19:50:21 viric: No, I'm asking if the thread is relevant Sep 20 19:50:36 I took the u-boot from that thread Sep 20 19:50:48 it helped me Sep 20 19:50:59 but it seems like there's a more "official" u-boot bundled with the installer that does the same thing? Sep 20 19:51:14 I don't know. Sep 20 19:51:47 btw, with that u-boot, I could not boot from my usb device! :) Sep 20 19:51:57 ha Sep 20 19:52:06 I'm still very very new to U-Boot Sep 20 19:52:12 I wonder if I will be able to boot with another u-boot. I built one new Sep 20 19:52:30 for instance, wonder what the installer will do to flash if I do an MMC install Sep 20 19:54:32 I don't know at all how the installer works Sep 20 19:54:37 I wouldn't trust it. Sep 20 19:54:50 I prefer getting my hands dirty. Sep 20 19:55:08 But hey, I've never even seen it. So you may trust it. :) Sep 20 23:53:52 viric: **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 21 02:59:56 2009