**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 25 02:59:56 2009 Oct 25 07:43:57 So many troubles over the past few days. I'm only getting stuff back up now. Oct 25 07:44:27 I noticed my web server was not using virtio so I will take that migrate that tonight too. Oct 25 08:00:16 nick ron_ Oct 25 14:33:21 Hi, my plug currently runs Ubuntu from the internal flash, I have seen many people going to great pains to get stuff running from SSD, why? The reason I ask, is I want to switch to Debian, with Ubuntu binning ARMv5 support in a couple of weeks. Oct 25 14:34:27 Well, running from SD or USB offers you much more space, and if something goes wrong you can always remove the SD or USB device and fix it with a computer Oct 25 14:35:10 Space has not been an issue (60% used currently of my 512MB) Oct 25 14:36:17 what is the performance of SSD based systems compared to using the internal flash? When I hear people saying it takes their plug 60seconds to reboot, that sounds horrible compared to where I am (about 20seconds to reboot) Oct 25 14:43:56 well JFFS on the internal nand can be slow to mount Oct 25 14:44:00 ubifs is probably better Oct 25 14:44:49 this probably makes bootup faster on SD/USB, but unless you have a real SSD like OCZ Vertex or Intel X25 type thing involved, I/O is probably slower overlal Oct 25 15:15:50 MarkGil: How often do you boot? I have not needed to boot my sheevaplug in months Oct 25 15:18:18 Not that often, but It's not really the boot times that worry me, more the performence hit that SDHC booting may bring, indicated by the slow boot times. Oct 25 15:18:42 I have not seen any benchmarking of the onboard flash in the plug compared to a SD card speed. Oct 25 15:20:26 but I have just benchmarked by internal flash and getting 37MB/sec write speed and 27MB/sec read speeds, which seem pretty respectable. Oct 25 15:21:02 so I am trying to work out where SD card speeds would put me. (witha Class6 card) Oct 25 15:21:08 (which I don't have right now) Oct 25 15:21:22 MarkGil: take care performing benchmarks otherwise you'll just be benching the linux cache Oct 25 15:21:46 37 MB write suggests you write only to cache and the cache is not flushed Oct 25 15:21:52 do a sync after your test Oct 25 15:23:12 I did sync. This is the benchmark I used: sync; time sh -c "dd if=/dev/zero of=./test bs=1000k count=1000; sync" Oct 25 15:23:45 and for reading back: sync; time sh -c "dd if=./test of=/dev/null; sync" Oct 25 15:28:17 MarkGil should try that with my setup as I am using an old hitachi 2.5 inch drive I had in my junk box and placed it in a 2.5 inch enclosure. Oct 25 15:33:34 1024000000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 66.7704 s, 15.3 MB/s Oct 25 15:33:48 read 1024000000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 65.1953 s, 15.7 MB/s Oct 25 15:34:10 might be worth me upgrading to a modern HDD Oct 25 15:34:15 Write and read speeds are irrelevant. IOPS matter. Oct 25 15:34:24 Actually looking on the forums SD card booting seems like a whole world of hurt. I think I'll wait for someone to tar up a minimal Debian Squeeze than I can use :-) Oct 25 15:36:29 ShadowJK: true Oct 25 15:36:51 in my case the weak link may not be the drive but the enclosure electronics. Oct 25 15:37:17 even a SD card with 35megabyte/s write speed degrades to some 100kbyte/s random write speed :) Oct 25 15:37:22 need to see if I have a different enclosure I can be put the drive in and see what would happen Oct 25 15:38:12 yes Oct 25 15:38:20 that can happen Oct 25 15:38:23 My western digital MyBook Mirror: 33.3MB/Sec write, 32.1MB/sec read Oct 25 15:38:55 the onboard flash is rather fast it seems (UBIFS in my case) Oct 25 15:38:57 MarkGil: idea idea what drive they use in that? Oct 25 15:39:13 in the MyBook Oct 25 15:39:14 western digitals I would hope :-) Oct 25 15:39:21 running the test now on my openrd board Oct 25 15:39:24 It's the "green" series Oct 25 15:39:34 but for reading back you most likely will get data from teh cache Oct 25 15:40:04 Uses a pair of these: http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&q=western+digital+1TB+green&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=17088818321558722509&ei=OHHkStm7GcKC4Qbsydj-AQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers Oct 25 15:41:06 with the write I get 29.7 on a hard disk (toshiba if i recall correctly) Oct 25 15:42:01 Just had a thought, if I were to pickup a cheap and nasty (and slow) 1GB SD card, I figure I could install Debain, and the tar up the filesystem and deploy it on my internal flash. Oct 25 15:44:50 http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=336 ok so they are SATA Oct 25 15:45:11 so a good SATA to USB subsystem in the enclosure Oct 25 15:46:20 MarkGil: i think it is quite possible to directly install debian Oct 25 15:46:31 on the internal flash Oct 25 15:46:53 MarkGil: http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/ Oct 25 15:47:21 eFfeM: I was jsut going to post that link ;) Oct 25 15:47:41 :-) Oct 25 15:48:18 btw anyone an idea on the feasibility to run an iscsi initiator on the plug ? Oct 25 15:48:19 only Lenny, not Squeeze Oct 25 15:48:38 "The Debian installer doesn't currently support installations to flash, but you can use it to install to a USB stick or disk as well as to an SD card." Oct 25 15:49:31 Just gonna get one of these, and have a tinker. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000RHWBUI/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2/275-5093010-7068162?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_r=1GP3DXHHH0HT3MYT3PB1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=471057153&pf_rd_i=B000HABBFQ Oct 25 15:49:43 ah ok, thought it did, but I probably installed to hard disk then just install to an SD card Oct 25 15:50:07 that is expensive Oct 25 15:50:12 overpriced Oct 25 15:50:19 I avoid Lexar out of principle Oct 25 15:51:21 Lexar purposely makes it difficult to use certain of their products with Linux Oct 25 15:54:19 any recommended brands/cards? Inexpensive and small capacity (2-4GB) Oct 25 15:55:00 a-data 4gb sdhc is eur 10 at my local compu store Oct 25 15:55:13 and i have very bad experiences with kingston sdhc Oct 25 15:55:39 2gb is eur 7 Oct 25 15:56:04 thougth they were class 6 Oct 25 16:03:43 MarkGil: Here are instructions for creating a jffs image http://www.openplug.org/plugwiki/index.php/Flashing_an_Operating_System_onto_the_Plug Oct 25 16:04:11 there should be similar instructions for creating a ubifs image. I think I saw those in the docs on the cd Oct 25 16:06:57 was hoping I could just run the installer as documented and install to SD, tar it up, and then log into my Ubuntu system, delete the existing root filesystem, and then untar the debian one. Is this a flawed plan? Oct 25 16:07:54 MarkGil not sure if it is flawed or not. Raw flash can be strange...try it and see Oct 25 16:08:08 MarkGil: by the way http://www.openplug.org/plugwiki/index.php/Debian Oct 25 16:09:13 The other plan I had, was to download the SheevaInstaller 1.0 and just replace the rootfilesystem in that package with my debian one, and then flash it that way Oct 25 16:10:14 MarkGil: that sounds like a decent plan. I actually prefer the .6 installer Oct 25 16:12:51 at least the .6 worked, the 1.0 was a major F-up, it was broken in almost every respect.. Oct 25 16:18:00 I'm gonna have a crack at that, using that link you gave me a moment ago, setup on debian x86 using debootstrap and then flash using the installer Oct 25 16:18:43 MarkGil: well .6 and earlier was made by someone from marvell I think. 1.0 was a complete rewrite using php!!!!! It should of been called something else and not 1.0 Oct 25 16:23:41 MarkGil: forget about deleting the existing rfs Oct 25 16:24:16 ok, misread, it might work if you boot from the card Oct 25 16:24:32 you cannot boot from the internal flash and then delete it Oct 25 16:24:41 that was a longshot... I'm hoping the flashing with the installer will work thou. Oct 25 16:25:16 the installer is not that good, spent some time on it yesterday but could not get it working (from linux) Oct 25 16:25:49 me neither. I had to use it from Win in the end, which did work. Oct 25 16:26:00 you might want to have a look at this: http://nil-techno.blogspot.com/2009/10/upgrading-factory-sheevaplug-nand-to.html Oct 25 16:26:00 the 0.6 worked from Linux for me,. Oct 25 16:31:18 the 1.0 installer was created by a different person than the .6 and earlier Oct 25 16:31:35 Very weird creating an installer using php Oct 25 16:34:04 have either of you posted to the forum that you have problems with the 1.0 installer Oct 25 16:34:24 I wonder if the .6 installer would work with cycgwin Oct 25 16:42:19 i haven't, i just bumped into this yesterday and thought it could be at my side Oct 25 16:43:10 php runme.php just ended up echoing all of runme.php Oct 25 16:43:22 and being a php n00b I reverted to the page I gave above Oct 25 16:46:21 eFfeM: it is ridiculous having to have php to run an installer Oct 25 16:51:01 yes, i fully agree Oct 25 16:51:43 btw remember the discussion we had on kernels the other day ? Oct 25 16:51:55 my sheeva is running the same kernel als the openrd client Oct 25 16:52:16 you can configure the kernel to support multiple arcNumbers Oct 25 16:53:18 eFfeM: I knew that about the kernel Oct 25 16:54:16 eFfeM: do you have Xgi driver working? Oct 25 16:57:18 nope Oct 25 16:57:33 was hoping dhaval would come up with something he had a .28 version Oct 25 16:57:52 i have been peeking at sound, but that also needs more time Oct 25 16:58:30 got the code from that spanish/portuguese guy but that was for a differnet board, need to add i2s (but never did that before and didn't have enough time yet) Oct 25 17:07:06 eFfeM: I would of though that eInfoChips would of made an effort to get all the latest bits out. It is a good idea just from a marketing point fo view Oct 25 17:07:48 yeah, but they are fairly slow, actually what they delivered a week or so ago was the same as they gave in aug Oct 25 17:08:05 yep Oct 25 17:09:56 well I have been held up for several months on what I was doing proof of concept of. It is going to be eInfoChips loss as a successful proof of concept would of resulted thousands of orders Oct 25 17:10:56 thought marvell would also have some interest to push them to complete things Oct 25 17:11:09 then again, i know where they are and i know how things work over there Oct 25 17:12:02 hah! Oct 25 17:15:00 eFfeM: now if the board designs are Marvell's property, Marvell could move to a different board supplier and provide the necessary system software support. I am not sure though what the relationship between Marvell and eInfoChips is exactly. Oct 25 17:17:24 tinker-f595: i have no real info on this either, but as they feature the board fairly prominently on their web site, I thought there is a link Oct 25 19:22:31 it's developer prototypes, not consumer hardware. all the bits will get done as the people who can do them get them done. Oct 25 19:23:11 the people who can't do that, have plenty of time to learn, if they need it enough ;) Oct 25 20:17:44 Does anyone know of a replacement for the Samsung NAND K9F4G flash on the current Sheeva designs? Oct 25 20:18:06 Is Numonyx NAND04G compatible? Oct 25 20:54:51 ron_: wrong...the business people are more impressed if you can show them a prototype that works fully before committing to support using it for a product based on modifications Oct 25 22:04:06 man its been too long Oct 25 22:04:11 i just erased mtd2 Oct 25 22:04:51 i thought it was for my initrd. :/ Oct 25 22:05:39 this is bad Oct 25 22:05:43 ouch Oct 25 22:07:35 mercifully my usb boot still lives Oct 25 22:08:52 however my docs were not good enough Oct 25 22:09:02 going to take me a while to giure out how to port my buildroot Oct 25 22:12:54 oh openrd-- why do you reset usb so frequently Oct 25 22:14:59 rektide: good luck! What were you trying to do? Oct 25 22:16:33 upgrade my kernel Oct 25 22:16:42 forgot theres no mtd partition for initrd Oct 25 22:19:51 oh hell Oct 25 22:20:00 apparently my usb drive is foobared now Oct 25 22:20:28 from the openrd siezing up from a usb bus reset Oct 25 22:21:25 rektide: which uboot are you using on the openrd client? Oct 25 22:22:01 still stock. and i only have -base. Oct 25 22:22:22 oh base Oct 25 22:22:24 i tried upgrading twice, and never got a compiled/openocd'd copy to do anything Oct 25 22:24:35 rektide: that was from the uboot head? Oct 25 22:30:57 yeah, this was 3 months ago though Oct 25 22:33:25 wow Oct 25 22:33:31 its back Oct 25 22:33:39 linux 2.6.32-rc5 & all Oct 25 22:33:48 man i really need to write more scripts Oct 25 22:35:21 i really need to update my rescue image, but man, so much effort Oct 25 22:35:43 updating the plug's kernel is just like flashing the uImage into the correct mtd slot and placing the modules? Oct 25 22:36:08 * christoph_debian still has some 30-rc$something Oct 25 22:36:09 yes Oct 25 22:36:17 getting that uImage is vaguely non-trivial Oct 25 22:36:26 I once cross-compiled one Oct 25 22:36:42 cross compiling from debian is insanely easy Oct 25 22:36:47 emdebian makes it just work Oct 25 22:36:49 what's the problem with that? hitting a ok config? Oct 25 22:37:11 emdebian + debians kernel package Oct 25 22:37:15 jep the emdebian cross-toolchains rock Oct 25 22:37:56 you still have to manually mkimage Oct 25 22:37:59 to get the uImage Oct 25 22:38:23 and you have to, as i just re-discovered, make sure not to flash_erase a mtd other than 1 Oct 25 22:38:58 well my uboot mtd never correctly disappeared somehow Oct 25 22:39:00 ;) Oct 25 22:40:51 cross compiling is no biggy on fedora either Oct 25 22:41:50 I actually use my sheevaplug to perform my compiles. I use an usb drive in an enclosure Oct 25 22:41:53 make-kpkg is really the debian divine agent Oct 25 22:42:39 it makes not just compiling easy, but distributing Oct 25 22:43:00 AGGG Oct 25 22:43:13 libiw installed just fine Oct 25 22:43:19 but wireless-tools.... Oct 25 22:43:25 getting bizzarree arcane dpkg errors Oct 25 22:43:33 rektide: what was the AGGG about? Oct 25 22:44:08 ok it was just half downloaded Oct 25 22:44:16 aggg was w/r/t/ wireless tools Oct 25 22:48:49 rektide: looks like some openrd base support was added recently to the current uboot tree http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git;a=tree;f=board/Marvell/openrd_base;h=00f8c786e92f9390697cb0319ef642b1975dca93;hb=f3ee25859e3920ee7c7cc519a3e6f60d70d7a53f Oct 25 22:51:38 go simon Oct 25 22:51:39 ! Oct 25 22:52:03 i gotta scram for a bit; talk to you all latter Oct 25 22:58:14 ? Oct 25 22:58:26 oh got ti Oct 25 22:58:28 it Oct 26 01:10:50 tinker-f595: so you've given up completely on openrd as an olpc server ? Oct 26 02:35:42 first wireless connection Oct 26 02:35:42 omg Oct 26 02:35:45 took _forever_ Oct 26 02:36:33 now to try to puzzle together why this rt2800usb tops out at 7dbm, and not 27dbm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 26 02:59:58 2009