**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 10 02:59:56 2010
Jan 10 13:13:50 <mtaht4> I figured there was a channel for this, just woke up and saw a message on the openrd list about it.
Jan 10 17:51:04 <Brandano> Good evening all
Jan 10 17:58:11 <Brandano> is there any tool I can use on the sheevaplug to claim a port mapping from an upnp router?
Jan 10 18:18:35 <dev> Brandano: I'm actually working this very moment on it
Jan 10 18:19:36 <Brandano> Actually, I find it odd that there should not be such a tool for Ubuntu already. Looking around I only found GUI tools
Jan 10 18:19:45 <Brandano> in Java, of all things...
Jan 10 18:20:00 <Brandano> dev: any way I can help?
Jan 10 18:20:21 * Brandano only knows how to code badly in python
Jan 10 18:20:58 <dev> Brandano: that's fine -> http://coherence.beebits.net/wiki/UPnP-Inspector#InspectorcontrollinganInternetGatewayDevicesooninsvntrunkversionuiunpolished
Jan 10 18:21:24 <dev> this is a first GUI attempt, will add a command-line option too
Jan 10 18:21:50 <Brandano> I just found this: http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,54/topic,3052.msg14264/
Jan 10 18:21:56 <dev> actually everything is there already, it jsut needs some glue code
Jan 10 18:22:22 * Brandano always forgets to check for python modules...
Jan 10 18:23:48 <dev> ah, interesting, that's the stuff armijn was working on
Jan 10 18:25:01 <dev> anyway, I'll check in the stuff for Coherence this evening or tomorrow and add an example to the wiki
Jan 10 18:26:04 <dev> so if you are interested in some Python coding, give us a hand :-)
Jan 10 18:26:05 <Brandano> I suspect it does much more than what I actually need
Jan 10 18:26:32 <Brandano> I'll have a look at it, but more for my desktop box than for the sheeva :)
Jan 10 18:26:52 <dev> it runs on the Sheeva, have one here
Jan 10 18:27:05 <Brandano> seems a tad overkill
Jan 10 18:27:31 <dev> why? it runs only the things you tell it to do
Jan 10 18:28:15 <dev> you can use what ever you want - just curious why you get that impression
Jan 10 18:31:01 <Brandano> because it's a full GUI implementation on a headless system?
Jan 10 18:32:03 <dev> ah, that's 'only' the Inspector, the core stuff is in Coherence
Jan 10 18:32:25 <Brandano> I mean, I don't really need to browse a media server
Jan 10 18:32:44 <Brandano> I just need to obtain a port mapping from the gateway
Jan 10 18:33:27 <Brandano> or do that sort of "mindless" task from a shell script
Jan 10 18:33:33 <dev> and for that you need to speak UPnP, that's what Coherence does
Jan 10 18:34:24 <dev> anyway, it is ~30 lines of Python code plus getting some options from the command line
Jan 10 18:34:58 <Brandano> ah, that sounds more reasonable :)
Jan 10 19:59:13 <cemc> what do you guys think of this: http://www.newit.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5 . should I get this?
Jan 10 19:59:25 <cemc> and can I put debian on it later?
Jan 10 20:05:38 <Brandano> cemc: it's what I got
Jan 10 20:05:47 <Brandano> and it's running Linux ATM
Jan 10 20:06:17 <Brandano> if you plan to boot from SD you may as well get the slightly cheaper one without UbiFS
Jan 10 20:06:22 <cemc> or maybe I'll get the basic version and get a SD card separately and install it myself
Jan 10 20:07:36 <Brandano> anyway, apart from the uboot ext2 bug, it's working perfectly
Jan 10 20:10:26 <Brandano> cemc: I think Debian will run on it without too much fiddling, but in any case Ubuntu runs fine
Jan 10 20:11:13 <cemc> can I use that ubifs stuff with debian too ? I mean can I install on it ? it's faster because the ubifs, or because it's on sd ?
Jan 10 20:20:28 <Brandano> cemc: it's probably faster because it's on UBIFS, but you won't be using the UBIFS if you boot from SD anyway
Jan 10 20:20:39 <Brandano> so it's irrelevant
Jan 10 20:22:24 <eFfeM1> btw good news, I submitted patches for the angstrom builder for openrd-base and openrd-client; guess they will be there in a day or two as they are accepted
Jan 10 20:22:30 <eFfeM1> (sheeva is already there)
Jan 10 20:23:09 <eFfeM1> cemc you can install ubi on your nand if you want to, provided your kernel supports it
Jan 10 20:23:25 <eFfeM1> ubi on sd is afaik not possible
Jan 10 20:25:57 <Brandano> also not really useful
Jan 10 20:26:05 <Brandano> since SD is not a flash device
Jan 10 20:26:18 <Brandano> I believe SD have their own controller
Jan 10 20:27:26 <eFfeM1> yes
Jan 10 20:29:33 <Brandano> they implement wear level balancing on their own, transparently to the user or OS
Jan 10 20:30:34 <cemc> now comes a n00b questios: which is faster, the built-in flash or a say class6 sdhc SD card?
Jan 10 20:31:31 <eFfeM1> no idea
Jan 10 20:32:27 <Brandano> I believe they are approximately the same, however...
Jan 10 20:32:49 <Brandano> 1: once the internal NAND is worn, that's it. you can't replace it
Jan 10 20:32:56 <Brandano> 2: it only holds 512 MB
Jan 10 20:33:16 <cemc> mhm
Jan 10 20:33:25 <Brandano> I have a class 10 SD in mine, and works well as far as I can tell
Jan 10 20:33:30 <eFfeM1> it won't wear that quickly, what you could do is put the os on it and the user data if any on sd
Jan 10 20:33:37 <eFfeM1> or usb flash or usb hd
Jan 10 20:33:50 <Brandano> in any case it's "disk access" rather than memory access, so it's in both cases faster than an HD
Jan 10 20:33:51 <eFfeM1> btw iyou can also boot from usb hd
Jan 10 20:34:09 <cemc> and usb flash I guess
Jan 10 20:34:34 <Brandano> yep. But then you'd be wasting some USB bandwidth and have an empty SD slot :)
Jan 10 20:35:57 <Brandano> the SD card protrudes from the slot and doesn't lock in, that's one design issue that I think ought to be fixed
Jan 10 20:35:59 <cemc> and for external storage you can use something from the network, if any (like with nbd, or AoE etc)
Jan 10 20:36:10 <cemc> after the os is up of course
Jan 10 20:36:42 <cemc> Brandano: protrudes like how much? couple of mm ?
Jan 10 20:36:46 <Brandano> yep, but I wouldn't store /var/logs on the nand anyway
Jan 10 20:36:53 <Brandano> nope a cm or so
Jan 10 20:37:09 <cemc> mhm
Jan 10 20:37:15 <Brandano> it's like those slots you get in USB card readers
Jan 10 20:37:34 <cemc> I have one on the laptop, but I don't think that's a cm :)
Jan 10 20:37:35 <Brandano> not the "click" kind you get in laptops
Jan 10 20:37:40 <cemc> ah
Jan 10 20:37:41 <cemc> :)
Jan 10 20:37:55 <cemc> righty. but that's not a real show stopper anyway :)
Jan 10 20:37:56 <Brandano> if it had been one of those it would have been perfect
Jan 10 20:38:13 <cemc> if the whole plug is under the furniture :)
Jan 10 20:38:14 <Brandano> yep, not a show stopper. Works perfectly as it is
Jan 10 20:38:40 <Brandano> but for a commercial product it would be nice if you could seal it using a different box or a sticker
Jan 10 20:40:30 <cemc> uhum
Jan 10 20:40:55 <cemc> so it supports booting from nand, sd, usb flash/hd
Jan 10 20:41:00 <cemc> what else? network boot?
Jan 10 20:41:27 <eFfeM1> guess so, never tried it
Jan 10 20:43:11 <Brandano> cemc: yes, it can boot from network
Jan 10 20:43:23 <Brandano> uboot includes a dhcp client
Jan 10 20:43:40 <Brandano> I have seen the commands, but haven't used it
Jan 10 20:44:34 <Brandano> btw, perhaps this could work: http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/upimg1%5CSD-Card_77301.jpg
Jan 10 20:46:12 <cemc> ;)
Jan 10 20:47:25 <Brandano> not sure the sheeva can read them
Jan 10 20:47:30 <Brandano> expecially at boot
Jan 10 22:51:53 <tinker-f595> Brandano: there is no official class 10 SDHC, see http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdhc/
Jan 10 22:52:48 <Brandano> tinker-f595: fair enough
Jan 10 22:52:56 <tinker-f595> and see http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/speed_class/
Jan 10 22:53:06 <Brandano> tinker-f595: this one is a panasonic 8gb, marked 10
Jan 10 22:53:19 <tinker-f595> so someone is doing false advertising then
Jan 10 22:53:26 <Brandano> could well be
Jan 10 22:53:45 <tinker-f595> SDHC sets the standards and the algorithms used
Jan 10 22:53:50 <Brandano> boot time is well under 30 seconds, but so it seems to be for class 6
Jan 10 22:54:16 <tinker-f595> boot time is well under 30 seconds from the nand as well which is an MTD device
Jan 10 22:54:24 <tinker-f595> and also is very quick from a HDD
Jan 10 22:54:31 <roxfan> panasonic (matsushita) is one of the founding members (or something) of sd card association...
Jan 10 22:54:51 <Brandano> perhaps they just assure 10 mb per second? :)
Jan 10 22:55:31 <tinker-f595> roxfan I know that... but it still does not mean that  calling it Class 10 is valid, when the SDHC association has not published a class 10 standard
Jan 10 22:55:48 <roxfan> On 21 May 2009, Panasonic announced new "class 10" SDHC cards, claiming that this new class is "part of SD Card Specification Ver.3.0"
Jan 10 22:56:10 <Brandano> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10246593-1.html
Jan 10 22:57:03 <tinker-f595> oh gee cnet.  Now citing cnet is a big F.
Jan 10 22:58:23 <Brandano> that's the first article that I found. Probably there's press releases from panasonic
Jan 10 22:58:57 <Brandano> but never mind me, I am obviously just boosting the size of my p.. the speed of my card
Jan 10 22:59:54 <tinker-f595> yes that is basically what cnet does...regurgitates press releases. There writers tend to be clueless about technology.
Jan 10 23:01:11 <Brandano> odd, because if you had read the article they are not being very kind with panasonic
Jan 10 23:01:36 <tinker-f595> Now I would like to see SDXC http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdxc/ , but then current systems would not be able to support it without some changes
Jan 10 23:01:39 <Brandano> anyway, it's on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital
Jan 10 23:02:01 <roxfan> why not? i think it's just removing some limits on addressing or something?
Jan 10 23:06:34 <tinker-f595> yes but depends on if the controller can address that much space and has enough throughput to support the speed
Jan 10 23:07:37 <Brandano> isn't the controller on the card?
Jan 10 23:09:30 <tinker-f595> there is controller on the card just like there is on a hdd, but also a host controller
Jan 10 23:09:46 <tinker-f595> from what I remember of reading the spec a long time ago
Jan 10 23:12:08 <tinker-f595> Brandano: You can read it here http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/host_controller/simple_spec
Jan 10 23:17:21 <Brandano> do you know if the sheeva can support mmc cards?
Jan 10 23:17:48 <Brandano> from wikipedia it seems that it is pin compatible. Must be supported by the firmware, though
Jan 10 23:20:28 * Brandano is tempted to get one of these: http://cgi.ebay.it/2GB-RS-MMC-mobile-Speicherkarte-Nokia-9210_W0QQitemZ370296523505QQcmdZViewItemQQptZHandy_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item5637648af1
Jan 10 23:20:41 <Brandano> mmc plus should go up to 56 mb per second
Jan 10 23:21:24 <Brandano> no idea what is the sustained rate, though
Jan 11 00:11:46 <timtimred> zzzmmph... hmm samba bug wha
Jan 11 00:11:58 <timtimred> ahhh
Jan 11 00:13:40 <timtimred> oops wrong window
Jan 11 02:38:22 <timtimred> ping rabeeh
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 11 02:59:57 2010