**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 28 02:59:57 2010
Feb 28 19:48:03 <syadnom> hello all
Feb 28 19:48:35 <syadnom> cut and paste from #ubuntu-arm a few minutes ago so excuse the double question if you are in both chans:
Feb 28 19:48:36 <syadnom> I'm considering an experiment with running a guruplug to start a basic vbulletin site, and then splitting that to a MySQL guruplug+webserver, then mysql+2 web servers etc etc with apache load balancing.  Before I invest in a couple plugs and wanted to know if anyone had run php and mysql on one of these plugs yet.
Feb 28 19:56:21 <chemicaloliver> syadnom: yes but ubuntu >9.10 wont run on them
Feb 28 19:56:43 <chemicaloliver> * >9.04
Feb 28 19:56:56 <suihkulokki> for php/mysql/apache usage debian is effectively identical to ubuntu
Feb 28 19:57:05 <chemicaloliver> yeah I know
Feb 28 19:57:17 <chemicaloliver> I just wondered if you knew when asking in two ubuntu channels
Feb 28 19:58:47 <chemicaloliver> sorry not two channels
Feb 28 19:59:19 <chemicaloliver> but yes it should work fine as long as the php load isn't too high
Feb 28 20:03:31 <syadnom> chem: when you say no ubuntu over 9.04 is that because its targetting arm v9 rather than v7?  I am assuming that this is specifically a *plug issue because the marvel chip is arm v7 right?
Feb 28 20:04:57 <chemicaloliver> syadnom: I thought sheevaplugs were ARMv5 and they dropped support for that after jaunty...but yes you have the right idea
Feb 28 20:05:36 <syadnom> chem: is debian do the same? does debian5 run on the marvel chip?
Feb 28 20:05:51 <chemicaloliver> debian still have ongoing support
Feb 28 20:06:02 <syadnom> nice
Feb 28 20:06:06 <chemicaloliver> I think ubuntu are trying to target the new netbooks comming along
Feb 28 20:06:50 <syadnom> Im sure that when canonical made the decision they didnt expect to have this marvel cpu as a target.
Feb 28 20:08:42 <syadnom> google wont tell me what kind of php or mysql performance I should expect.  My thought here is to start with one and then just expand out as necessary.  With that scheme in mind, I should be able to just add a plug whenever performance is becoming an issue.  Even do master>slave mysql replication and round robin mysql connections as well as web.
Feb 28 20:09:26 <chemicaloliver> would it not just be easier to use something more powerful from the start
Feb 28 20:10:27 <chemicaloliver> a dual core atom server would be quite low powered and totally outperform several plugs
Feb 28 20:10:42 <syadnom> chem: this is as much an experiment in low power servers as anything else.  I can get a dual xeon dell 2650 on ebay for $250 rack-ready.
Feb 28 20:11:17 <chemicaloliver> are you planning to run them from hard disks
Feb 28 20:11:40 <chemicaloliver> I think it would be a good idea
Feb 28 20:11:54 <syadnom> chem: all from flash memory.  small site, very little data.
Feb 28 20:12:33 <chemicaloliver> if you run debian you can't use the internal ssd currently
Feb 28 20:13:46 <syadnom> chem: I would prefer to run external media anyone, for testing anyway.  easier to duplicate a config by dd'ing a flash key and then just setup the plug to boot USB.
Feb 28 20:14:17 <syadnom> I was reading that the SD slot is pretty slow right now also so I would probably do it all with a fast USB key.
Feb 28 20:14:59 <chemicaloliver> I've used an ssd and currently a usb hd and haven't noticed a significant speed difference
Feb 28 20:15:14 <chemicaloliver> but I don't do much that is disk intensive
Feb 28 20:15:24 <chemicaloliver> *sd
Feb 28 20:18:56 <syadnom> I'd be most concerned about the MySQL database files and performance on SD.  I could get an SD class 6 card but I dont know if the SD slot will use the speed or not.  From what I read it was just a driver issue or something in the stock linux and that debian might be able to utilize the controller better due to a newer kernel
Feb 28 20:19:49 <syadnom> I think that this kind of setup would almost require a php cache and a reverse proxy to maximize performance.
Feb 28 20:21:25 <chemicaloliver> I ran a test wordpress site on mine and it was noticeably slow in its default state, on the local network slower than my live site which not on my local netwoork
Feb 28 20:22:53 <syadnom> chem: do you think that slowness was caused by disk speed or php?  apache/html should be very quick and I think mysql would be totally IO bound but PHP is heavy.
Feb 28 20:23:37 <chemicaloliver> I don't think it was the disk, on loading the page the cpu usage for apache was 50%
Feb 28 20:24:10 <chemicaloliver> most people use lighttpd rather than apache on plugs
Feb 28 20:24:23 <syadnom> where subsequent load of the same data just as slow?
Feb 28 20:24:45 <chemicaloliver> yes,
Feb 28 20:25:11 <syadnom> hmm, then i would think PHP.
Feb 28 20:26:13 <chemicaloliver> I'll have a look now, I still have t set up
Feb 28 20:26:15 <syadnom> I wonder if something like facebooks hiphop webserver/php interpreter would do well on a plug.
Feb 28 20:27:00 <syadnom> All the examples I've seem are apache passing php off to hiphop so apache does the html only.
Feb 28 20:27:19 <syadnom> Im sure that lighttpd or comanchee or nginx could do the same.
Feb 28 20:27:59 <chemicaloliver> if the problem was php why would that not show as using the cpu
Feb 28 20:28:09 <chemicaloliver> (I'm looking at top while loading the page)
Feb 28 20:29:17 <syadnom> what is the system load on that plug?
Feb 28 20:29:29 <syadnom> specifically when your are hitting the wordpress page.
Feb 28 20:31:04 <chemicaloliver> idle its about 0.22% cpu and then everytime I refresh the page the apache process hits ~90% cpu 5% memory
Feb 28 20:31:44 <syadnom> how about the "Load Average", all 3 numbers given
Feb 28 20:32:12 <chemicaloliver> 0.15 0.11 0.03
Feb 28 20:32:42 <chemicaloliver> and that's mostly taken by top
Feb 28 20:32:58 <syadnom> that looks like its totally CPU bound.
Feb 28 20:33:40 <syadnom> with such low load averages there arent any IO waits sloing things down and the momory must have 20%+ free.
Feb 28 20:34:13 <chemicaloliver> well I know it's a 1GHz but it is a very low powered processor in terms of actual speed
Feb 28 20:36:06 <chemicaloliver> 305MB free memory
Feb 28 20:37:22 <syadnom> its pretty well know that current php interpreters are pretty slow.  facebook found this and they re-wrote a php interpretter called hiphop specifically for this slow php performance.  instead of actually interpretting the php and running it, it transforms php into C++ and caches previous transforms making it MANY times faster/more efficient.
Feb 28 20:40:37 <syadnom> its also a webserver so you inform your current server (apache, lighttpd, etc) to pass PHP off to hiphop.  Maybe worth a try.  I think I'll get just one plug and try on that instead of buying a few.
Feb 28 20:40:45 <chemicaloliver> yeah I read about that, I'd wondered about giving it a try but it looks like too much hard work
Feb 28 20:40:53 <syadnom> http://mediakey.dk/~cc/howto-install-hiphop-for-php-on-ubuntu/
Feb 28 20:41:16 <chemicaloliver> but isn't there more to it when it comes to actually using it
Feb 28 20:41:20 <syadnom> I dont know if you have gcc on your plug and cross compiling can be a hassle if you dont do it much.
Feb 28 20:41:45 <chemicaloliver> yeah I have a full build setup on there, I never compile anything big enough for it to take too long
Feb 28 20:43:17 <syadnom> ill give it a shot.  Id like to wait on the marvel plug 3 that has a 2Ghz CPU but I dont know where to buy, what the release date is, and how much.  Might just go with the guruplug which ships in April.
Feb 28 20:43:54 <chemicaloliver> there isn't much difference between the guruplug and the sheevaplug really
Feb 28 20:44:26 <chemicaloliver> I'd like the sheeva 3 but it's rumoured Q4 2010 so probably Q1 2011 and at similar price to the current plugs
Feb 28 20:45:11 <chemicaloliver> it's going to be available from the existing retailers when they get around to making it, rumours say there isn't even a final working prototype
Feb 28 20:46:01 <syadnom> The guru looks like the one then.  is globalscale the place to get it or is there a better vendor?
Feb 28 20:46:18 <chemicaloliver> what country are you in?
Feb 28 20:46:32 <syadnom> US
Feb 28 20:46:52 <chemicaloliver> I think that's the only place then
Feb 28 20:47:24 <chemicaloliver> in europe there is newit who ship next day, compared to globalscales sometime in a few weeks attitude
Feb 28 20:47:40 <syadnom> is debian the choice OS?
Feb 28 20:48:24 <chemicaloliver> it's quite common, there are people running gentoo, fedora, arch and freebsd around too
Feb 28 20:48:51 <chemicaloliver> there are good instructions for installing debian here: http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/install.html if you haven't seen, I think that's partly why its popular
Feb 28 20:49:16 <chemicaloliver> have you seen the openplug forums?
Feb 28 20:49:25 <syadnom> wish pfsense was doing a freebsd8 version that would run on this.  The guruplug plus has two ethernet ports which immediately yells "FIREWALL" to me :)
Feb 28 20:49:34 <syadnom> yes, I have seen the forums
Feb 28 20:50:17 <syadnom> gotta run, busy busy busy.  tahnks for the chat.  I put this chan on my favs so Ill probably be floating around here every now and then.
Feb 28 20:50:30 <chemicaloliver> there are usually more people around!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 01 02:59:57 2010