**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 01 02:59:58 2010
Oct 01 12:59:27 <civodul> Hello!
Oct 01 12:59:41 <civodul> any idea whether u-boot for the GuruPlug needs CONFIG_MMC or some such?
Oct 01 12:59:55 <civodul> i read it's supposed to view the SD card reader as a USB device
Oct 01 12:59:59 <civodul> but that doesn't seem to work for me
Oct 01 15:58:49 <bkero> it does need config_mmc for the sdio card
Oct 01 16:04:34 <civodul> bkero: ok, thanks
Oct 01 16:04:56 <civodul> however, it fails to read from the SD for me
Oct 01 16:05:16 <civodul> e.g., "usb part" says "unknown partition table"
Oct 01 16:49:50 <Thell> Anyone happen to have the guruplug jtag adapter?  If so, do you happen to know if it will work with the dockstar?
Oct 01 16:51:01 <civodul> i have the JTAG adapter, but i don't know what the dockstar is
Oct 01 16:51:27 <Thell> It's the Seagate Marvell based server.
Oct 01 16:51:34 <Thell> Cute little systems :P
Oct 01 16:51:57 <civodul> ok :-)
Oct 01 17:48:29 <kerio> a rebranded pogoplug
Oct 01 17:48:44 <kerio> which is, of course, a sheevaplug
Oct 01 17:53:04 * Thell nods
Oct 01 17:55:55 <kerio> as far as i knew the dockstar had no jtag interface
Oct 01 17:57:40 <Thell> it has the 10pin header with TTY and JTAG capabilities, I'm just not sure if the GuruPlug JTAG programmer is specific to the Guruplug or if it is a generic JTAG programmer that _can_ be used given the correct pin connections
Oct 01 17:59:01 <Thell> I was thinking about ordering the Amontec JTAGKey2, but already have the Guruplug JTAG Programmer on order, so if it would work I can just continue waiting...
Oct 01 17:59:43 * Thell is a little perturbed about the long shipping time for the Guruplug and JTAG adapter though. It seems like it is taking forever.
Oct 01 18:00:23 <tinker-f595> JTAG is JTAG
Oct 01 18:01:51 <Thell> tinker-f595: yeah, but there is a difference in what works with what and how it interfaces though, yes?  (/me is a noob to JTAG)
Oct 01 18:01:55 <tinker-f595> no
Oct 01 18:02:09 <tinker-f595> JTAG is a standard interface
Oct 01 18:02:42 <Thell> So as long as I connect the correct pins via an adapter I'm good to go?
Oct 01 18:03:03 <tinker-f595> Thell: if you want to see the connectors on the Guruplug  JTAG programer take a look at http://guruplug.googlecode.com/files/GuruPlug%20Server-Quick%20Start%20Guide-100507.pdf
Oct 01 18:04:03 <tinker-f595> well you will need the correct driver on your host system
Oct 01 18:04:23 <tinker-f595> well I need to go and do some other things
Oct 01 18:04:33 <Thell> thanks for the link tinker-f595
Oct 01 18:26:29 <kerio> what can be done with a programmer that can't be done with openocd?
Oct 01 19:03:49 <Thell> kerio: iiuc you use openocd via the adapter, it isn't a programmer per se`
Oct 01 19:04:00 <kerio> oh, so the sheevaplug already has it?
Oct 01 19:04:01 <kerio> cool
Oct 01 20:33:46 <Thell> eeek - interesting article =>  http://1wt.eu/articles/guruplug-slow-heater/
Oct 01 20:38:00 <Bryanstein> Thell, that is not interesting...interesting is if you could run the tests yourself and see if they are objective or not
Oct 01 20:38:47 <Md> hint: the author is a widely respected member of the community
Oct 01 20:38:52 <Md> and you could read most things here
Oct 01 20:39:03 <Thell> good point, I guess concerning is more the word I should have used.
Oct 01 20:39:27 <Thell> Guess when I finally receive the unit I can see for myself
Oct 01 20:39:58 <Bryanstein> Thell, well they do get hot...no doubt about that
Oct 01 20:40:29 <civodul> FWIW, mine died after 20mn; i got a new unit, which works, but has a fan noisier than my hair dryer, and a slower ethernet port too
Oct 01 20:40:43 <Bryanstein> I have one here right now...I don't have my infrared thermometer I could give you some numbers
Oct 01 20:40:52 <Thell> Yeah, I read quite a bit about that.  Louder than a hair dryer?!?!?
Oct 01 20:40:57 <Bryanstein> civodul, really lol
Oct 01 20:41:01 <civodul> Thell: yeah, really
Oct 01 20:41:09 <Thell> That's not good at all!
Oct 01 20:41:10 <civodul> i mean, i used to have old sparcstations running
Oct 01 20:41:15 <civodul> and this thing is noisier
Oct 01 20:41:20 <Bryanstein> hahahaha
Oct 01 20:41:55 <civodul> i'm in 220V land, and it seems that things may be better in 110V land
Oct 01 20:42:06 <civodul> (the power supply doesn't heat as much there)
Oct 01 20:46:16 <Bryanstein> civodul, my issue wasn't power supply
Oct 01 20:46:33 <Bryanstein> I actually bypassed my psu and I'm running on various other sources
Oct 01 20:47:43 <Bryanstein> Thell, how long before you get yours?
Oct 01 20:48:33 <Thell> Bryanstein: darn good question!  No word back from GlobalScale as of yet beside the purchase itself
Oct 01 20:49:01 <Thell> That was Sept 8
Oct 01 20:49:17 <Thell> So hopefully within the next week or so
Oct 01 20:50:16 <NightMonkey> When something on the outside of a case gets so hot that you retract your hand by instinct rather than by choice, it's probably too hot to sell.
Oct 01 20:50:17 <Bryanstein> Thell, I'm going to run some tests on my plugs too
Oct 01 20:50:42 <Bryanstein> lol NightMonkey
Oct 01 20:51:01 <Thell> ha!
Oct 01 20:51:10 <Thell> Yeah, that would be a good indicator
Oct 01 20:51:32 <Bryanstein> Thell, the thing I don't like is that he's(the guy in the article) basically saying it's Marvell's fault when they are a silicon company...they didn't make the guruplug
Oct 01 20:51:50 <NightMonkey> I need to turn my Gurus back on and measure with my new IR Laser thermometer.
Oct 01 20:51:52 <Bryanstein> I'll email him so I can run his tests as well on my sheevaplug and my guru
Oct 01 20:52:12 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, I had one but left it at OSCON...never to see it again
Oct 01 20:52:14 <NightMonkey> Haven't bothered once I saw how useless they are in anything but an experimental hobby environment.
Oct 01 20:52:18 <Bryanstein> paid almost 100 for it
Oct 01 20:52:58 <NightMonkey> Having much more fun with the Sheeva, though, since that's useable other places than my desk.
Oct 01 20:53:21 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, you'll have to remove it from the case and I've found there are a few hot spots on the sink...well at least with the sheeva...the guru I haven't checked temp yet
Oct 01 20:53:54 <Thell> I can't imagine the sheeva gets very hot at all, my dockstars sure don't
Oct 01 20:54:28 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I don't have to remove the case on the Guru to know it's hot. That's the problem.
Oct 01 20:55:10 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, well it's all about getting it the laser closer to the actual heat source than the radiated temp
Oct 01 20:55:39 <NightMonkey> Failure due to internal heat is one thing. Not being able to have the Guru around small children or pets due to case heat is another.
Oct 01 20:56:30 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I'm not as interested in internal temps as felt temps on the unopened case.
Oct 01 20:57:47 <Bryanstein> Well I see your point, but it's actually quite cooler on the outside...even though it's intangible
Oct 01 20:57:59 <Thell> My biggest concern is long term heat decreasing the life of the unit.  It'll be a bummer if it is considered a throw-away unit after a year.
Oct 01 20:58:08 <Bryanstein> Hmm maybe I'll try to fry and egg with it ...I'd have to leave it on for a while
Oct 01 20:58:32 <NightMonkey> I'd like to get them recalled, myself. They can't be safe.
Oct 01 20:59:42 <Thell> looks like the author of that article is also the project lead on haproxy, so I'm guessing he would have repeatable tests on that throughput
Oct 01 21:01:39 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Idle vs. under network and/or CPU load should be a good comparison. For me, the NIC metal was too hot to touch at idle.
Oct 01 21:02:38 * Bryanstein plugging in his Guruplug
Oct 01 21:04:47 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, so what do you do with your plug now?
Oct 01 21:04:58 <NightMonkey> Sheeva?
Oct 01 21:05:36 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: The Sheeva I'm going to use as a LAMP server, and an asterisk server for my small office.
Oct 01 21:06:15 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, so you have the Sheeva and the Guru?
Oct 01 21:06:27 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: The Gurus were to be a remote network monitor and filter for clients..
Oct 01 21:06:46 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: (The two NICs allow the filtering part)
Oct 01 21:07:12 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I have a Sheeva, Guru Server and Server +.
Oct 01 21:08:16 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I will say that the other purpose is to just get my feet wet with ARM arch and making appliance-type embedded systems.
Oct 01 21:08:38 <NightMonkey> (That's the really fun part :) )
Oct 01 21:09:13 <Bryanstein> lol sure is...though these things are huge for embedded...512 is huge
Oct 01 21:09:30 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Yah, like having training wheels. ;)
Oct 01 21:09:46 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I know they're not truly limited enough to be embedded. ;)
Oct 01 21:09:49 <Bryanstein> So that server + how is it with temp? the same?
Oct 01 21:10:06 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: That's the one that triggers instictual pain response.
Oct 01 21:10:30 <NightMonkey> s/instictual/instinctual/
Oct 01 21:11:10 <NightMonkey> I will measure it soonish
Oct 01 21:13:34 <Thell> I wonder if since the Ubuntu 10.10 has an ARM branch if the Server edition could also be compiled for ARM...
Oct 01 21:14:08 <Bryanstein> Thell, well that is not for arm5
Oct 01 21:14:21 <Thell> :(
Oct 01 21:14:59 <Bryanstein> well the most aggressive development on these is on going on with Debian
Oct 01 21:15:33 <Bryanstein> Though...for Arm7...Ubuntu did a lot with thumb mode and rebuilding their whole repo
Oct 01 21:15:48 <Bryanstein> beyond that...Debian is just the way to go
Oct 01 21:16:16 <roxfan> you probably mean armv5 and armv7 (there's a difference)
Oct 01 21:16:40 <Bryanstein> roxfan, yes i just didnt want to type it all out
Oct 01 21:16:51 <roxfan> heh
Oct 01 21:32:03 <comradekingu> Thell ubuntu uses arm>v5 code, so you cant run it on a openplug, besides, debian works
Oct 01 21:32:54 <comradekingu> everyone agrees :)
Oct 01 21:33:09 <Thell> :)
Oct 01 21:34:51 <Bryanstein> comradekingu, not the latest version of Ubuntu
Oct 01 21:35:17 <Bryanstein> comradekingu, only up until 9.04
Oct 01 21:41:11 <comradekingu> over v5, now
Oct 01 21:41:32 <comradekingu> Server build uses the LTS, right?
Oct 01 21:41:42 <comradekingu> So debian on openplug
Oct 01 21:46:31 <Bryanstein> yes but the whole point is that Ubuntu no longer supports v5 for the latest version only karmic and jaunty
Oct 01 21:48:14 <tinker-f595> Thell: there is also a fedora 12 for ARM http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM#Getting_Started_with_the_Fedora_ARM_Port
Oct 01 21:48:37 <Thell> Fedora suites my purposes much better
Oct 01 21:48:53 <Thell> Thanks!
Oct 01 21:49:11 <tinker-f595> Thell: so you like software that has actually been tested ;)
Oct 01 21:49:29 <Thell> My VPS is CentOS ;)
Oct 01 21:49:34 <Bryanstein> well you can run everything on it...arch gentoo what ever wets your whistle.
Oct 01 21:49:43 <tinker-f595> Thell I have been running my sheevaplug for over 18 months and it does not get hot
Oct 01 21:50:13 <Bryanstein> tinker-f595, sheevaplug and guruplug are very different
Oct 01 21:51:10 <Thell> Yeah, I reallly need dual ethernet ports for the end result.  The wireless is a definite+ too.
Oct 01 21:51:37 <tinker-f595> My guruplug server plus is currently turned off but would get hot to the touch.  I plan on booting it up and turning off the bluetooth and one off the ethernet ports so it will have wireless and 1 ethernet port active.  It should run cooler then
Oct 01 21:51:45 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein:
Oct 01 21:51:59 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein: I know they are very different
Oct 01 21:52:28 <Bryanstein> tinker-f595, I thought you figured he was talking about sheeva and not guru
Oct 01 21:52:55 <Thell> Think I could possibly do with one ethernet and wireless but then I have to be both a router and proxy vs two thernets and just the proxy sitting between the router and the homes net connection
Oct 01 21:53:05 <tinker-f595> I was just giving him a comparison of the diffrence in heat generation between the 2
Oct 01 21:53:47 <tinker-f595> Thell make sure you keep the guruplug in a cool area
Oct 01 21:53:57 <Thell> Has anyone heard anything about when someone will have the Marvell 3.0 out on the market?
Oct 01 21:54:16 <Bryanstein> Thell, supposedly this quarter
Oct 01 21:54:24 <tinker-f595> do you mean the Marvell Plug 3.0?
Oct 01 21:54:43 <Thell> tinker-f595: I won't really have a say over wher people put them, so it is a major concern.  Perhaps the 3.0 will resolve the issue since it seems a littl larger for heat dissapation
Oct 01 21:54:53 <Thell> tinker-f595: yeah
Oct 01 21:54:54 <Bryanstein> I have access to 3.0 and they solve all the issues...no heat issues and internal storage
Oct 01 21:55:07 <Thell> Bryanstein: How the hell did you manage that?
Oct 01 21:55:19 * Thell REALLY needs on for prototyping.
Oct 01 21:55:24 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein: what is the 3.0 case made from?
Oct 01 21:55:25 <Thell> s/on/one
Oct 01 21:55:39 <Bryanstein> plastic on both the USI and Ionics
Oct 01 21:56:00 <Bryanstein> but the run fine...the Ionics gets a little hotter because of the internal 1.8
Oct 01 21:56:01 <Thell> I waited and waited and waited and finally decided to order the seagates and server+ out of sheer panic I was running out of time
Oct 01 21:56:11 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein: so what networking capabilities does it have?
Oct 01 21:56:12 <Thell> Bryanstein: is the 3.0 ARMv7 or v5?
Oct 01 21:56:31 <Bryanstein> Same...giga, wifi, bluetooth
Oct 01 21:56:43 <tinker-f595> 1 or 2 giga?
Oct 01 21:57:07 <Thell> I'd even order a full dev board for the 3.0 setup if I could find one
Oct 01 21:57:21 <Bryanstein> 1 on each
Oct 01 21:57:27 <Bryanstein> USI and Ionics both have just 1
Oct 01 21:57:34 <Bryanstein> but a 2Ghz CPU
Oct 01 21:57:47 <tinker-f595> which SOC ?
Oct 01 21:57:54 <Bryanstein> kirkwood
Oct 01 21:58:09 <tinker-f595> oh so next iteration of kirkwood
Oct 01 21:58:31 <Bryanstein> Well Armada 300
Oct 01 21:58:37 <Thell> I thought they are Armada
Oct 01 21:58:39 <Thell> yeah
Oct 01 21:58:49 <Thell> Armv7 too iirc
Oct 01 21:58:56 <Bryanstein> no v5
Oct 01 21:59:15 <tinker-f595> well there are a lot of different SOC families in the marketing guise of Armada
Oct 01 21:59:21 <Thell> really?  That sucks
Oct 01 21:59:30 <tinker-f595> kirkwood is v5
Oct 01 21:59:53 <Thell> so Armada is Kirkwood?  /me is confused
Oct 01 22:00:10 <tinker-f595> ARMADA 610 is actually is an mmp2
Oct 01 22:00:41 <tinker-f595> no Armada is a branding that has a lot of different SOC lines in it with new marketing names
Oct 01 22:01:02 <tinker-f595> so the 300 is from one soc line
Oct 01 22:01:10 <tinker-f595> the 610 is from another
Oct 01 22:01:49 <tinker-f595> I think they decided it was getting confusing referring to kirkwood, mmp2, discovery etc
Oct 01 22:02:10 <tinker-f595> so they came up with one name to cover a bunch of different things
Oct 01 22:02:21 <Thell> that makes sense... but why stick with Armv5?  Is there a benefit?
Oct 01 22:02:33 <tinker-f595> because that is what kirkwood is
Oct 01 22:02:42 <tinker-f595> mmp2 is 6
Oct 01 22:04:46 <tinker-f595> Thell http://www.marvell.com/products/processors/embedded/armada_300/armada_310.pdf
Oct 01 22:05:05 <Thell> just found this:: http://www.marvell.com/products/processors/armada.html
Oct 01 22:05:41 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Re: your access to MP 3.0, you mean you have held it in your hands? Have you run it through some paces?
Oct 01 22:05:59 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Are you under NDA?
Oct 01 22:07:06 <Tootoot222> does the marvell plug 3.0 still have 16bit memory?
Oct 01 22:07:56 <tinker-f595> that is what the summary pdf says
Oct 01 22:07:57 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, I have it here with me now
Oct 01 22:08:03 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Nice!
Oct 01 22:08:04 <Bryanstein> Tootoot222, yes it is 16
Oct 01 22:08:16 <Tootoot222> boo =(
Oct 01 22:08:28 <Bryanstein> but it's 1066Mhz
Oct 01 22:08:45 <Tootoot222> what's the sheeva's memory's clock rate?
Oct 01 22:08:53 <Bryanstein> lol I just said it
Oct 01 22:09:03 <tinker-f595> ha
Oct 01 22:09:04 <Tootoot222> oh, it's the same then
Oct 01 22:09:07 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I'm a little out of touch with that, since it has been vaporware from my perspective (not having the inside track, and all). I'll have to google for the specs.
Oct 01 22:09:24 <Bryanstein> no the other plugs were DDR2 800 which is 400
Oct 01 22:09:54 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Have you run it through any paces? How long have you had it?
Oct 01 22:10:23 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Specifically, have you perhaps done some load testing?
Oct 01 22:11:46 <NightMonkey> I can't wait to live the "Always On Lifestyle".
Oct 01 22:11:58 <tinker-f595> NightMonkey: ?
Oct 01 22:12:38 <NightMonkey> From the Slashgear blurb: 'Powerful Microserver is bolstered with 2 GHz Armada Processor to drive the ?Always-On Lifestyle?'
Oct 01 22:12:41 <Thell> NightMonkey: you'll start having hallucinations after about 3-4 days
Oct 01 22:12:46 <Thell> :P
Oct 01 22:12:58 <tinker-f595> haha
Oct 01 22:13:13 <NightMonkey> Marketing. It's not just a job, it's an Adventure(tm).
Oct 01 22:13:28 <tinker-f595> what a nonsense blurb...
Oct 01 22:13:34 <tinker-f595> NightMonkey: goog one
Oct 01 22:13:38 <tinker-f595> good one
Oct 01 22:13:48 <Bryanstein> lol tinker-f595 how is the fc12 repo for arm...I planned on trying it but was busy trying to build other things
Oct 01 22:13:49 <NightMonkey> Right now, I'd like to live the "Sometimes On Lifestyle".
Oct 01 22:13:58 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, I'll but some things on eventually
Oct 01 22:14:04 <Bryanstein> s/but/put
Oct 01 22:14:40 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein: I was planning on trying F12  this weekend after I cut down some screws so I can mount a drive in my OpenRD
Oct 01 22:14:57 <Bryanstein> ahhh you have the openrd
Oct 01 22:15:11 <tinker-f595> yes I have one of those as well
Oct 01 22:15:21 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Just a netcat run, and perhaps a Linpack, or even a tight loop.
Oct 01 22:16:10 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, I know of several benchmark suites
Oct 01 22:16:32 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Run them all. Please. At the same time. ;) See if it burns.
Oct 01 22:16:40 <tinker-f595> ha
Oct 01 22:16:47 <Bryanstein> It's just sooooooooo liberating having a drive on it
Oct 01 22:16:50 <Bryanstein> in it
Oct 01 22:17:24 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein: well I think ARM is heading back to were it started...and that is the desktop
Oct 01 22:17:32 <Bryanstein> tinker-f595, YES
Oct 01 22:17:54 <Bryanstein> tinker-f595, I've been using the sheeva as a desktop since I got it
Oct 01 22:18:13 <Bryanstein> faster than my p3 700Mhz box lol...just missing flash
Oct 01 22:18:14 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein: later in the year I am hoping to get my hands on a laptop that uses an ARMADA 610
Oct 01 22:18:35 <Bryanstein> tinker-f595, I've had my hands on arm based tablets
Oct 01 22:18:39 <Bryanstein> soooooooooo nice
Oct 01 22:18:46 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: (Thanks for sharing info with us. :) )
Oct 01 22:19:03 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, they are really worth the wait
Oct 01 22:19:21 <bkero> I got my hands on a laptop that uses a Cortex A8. :D
Oct 01 22:19:43 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: I hope so. I just don't want to think I should also take it camping for an "Always On Stove".
Oct 01 22:19:50 <Bryanstein> lol
Oct 01 22:19:52 <Tootoot222> XD
Oct 01 22:20:12 <Bryanstein> Well when the multiple core arm devices hit...
Oct 01 22:20:23 <tinker-f595> from my understanding of the architecture the mmp2 (armada 610) will run circles around a cortex A8
Oct 01 22:20:36 <NightMonkey> OK, I'm done with that line of humor. I've reached the saturation point.
Oct 01 22:20:45 <bkero> Bryanstein: they've been saying that for a while now, first it was 'when 1ghz arm devices hit'
Oct 01 22:21:11 <tinker-f595> NightMonkey: you are going to take a guruplug server plus camping?
Oct 01 22:21:18 <NightMonkey> ;)
Oct 01 22:21:31 <NightMonkey> GuruPlug Stove +
Oct 01 22:21:35 <tinker-f595> ha
Oct 01 22:21:50 <Bryanstein> lol bkero trust me...I don't know when they'll be there...but quad core arm is already a reality
Oct 01 22:22:02 <tinker-f595> Bryanstein is correct
Oct 01 22:22:18 <bkero> I know it's a reality, I'm doubtful I'll see it in a consumer product in the next 2 years though.
Oct 01 22:22:43 <NightMonkey> I don't mean to make fun of the engineers - it's the sales and marketing folks who likely shoved it out the door too early.
Oct 01 22:22:47 <Bryanstein> bkero, 2 years...not sure ...maybe sooner...that's up to the powers that be
Oct 01 22:23:30 <bkero> I'm sure by then Intel will have quad core atoms using less than 20 watts. :P
Oct 01 22:23:45 <Bryanstein> bkero, pffff lol I don't think so
Oct 01 22:23:46 <NightMonkey> Making it small *and* powerful to do some interesting things is a tough engineering challenge.
Oct 01 22:24:14 <NightMonkey> s/powerful/powerful enough/
Oct 01 22:24:29 <Tootoot222> i doubt arm will be able to take the market easily
Oct 01 22:24:29 <bkero> Bryanstein: I'm still waiting for dual core arm chips to end up in something, and that's been a bit over a year now.
Oct 01 22:24:31 <tinker-f595> bkero: that is a lot of watts
Oct 01 22:24:34 <Tootoot222> everything is already made for x868
Oct 01 22:24:36 <Tootoot222> x86*
Oct 01 22:24:45 <Tootoot222> even after x64 has been out for so long
Oct 01 22:24:47 <bkero> tinker-f595: I know, but it's still a long ways from where intel is now.
Oct 01 22:24:52 <Tootoot222> people are just *now* starting to support it
Oct 01 22:25:06 <Bryanstein> bkero, where do you think they will end up first?
Oct 01 22:25:07 <tinker-f595> yes but it is a lot more than an ARM quad core
Oct 01 22:25:08 <Tootoot222> and x64 being able to run existing x86 programs helps the transition too
Oct 01 22:25:16 <bkero> Bryanstein: phone or tablet
Oct 01 22:25:16 <Tootoot222> i doubt arm will be able to emulate x64 AND x86
Oct 01 22:25:31 <tinker-f595> Tootoot222: who cares?
Oct 01 22:25:39 <tinker-f595> end users do not care
Oct 01 22:25:40 <Bryanstein> bkero, methinks too...but quads...server of course
Oct 01 22:26:01 <Tootoot222> tinker-f595: end users want to be able to pop in the CD for their printer they bought 3 years ago and have it install
Oct 01 22:26:05 <Tootoot222> not tell them the arch isn't correct
Oct 01 22:26:11 <tinker-f595> I know someone that is planning on setting up a data center running linux servers on ARM
Oct 01 22:26:20 <bkero> End users want to plug their printer in and have it work automatically. :/
Oct 01 22:26:43 <tinker-f595> Tootoot222: that has nothing to do with X86 or not
Oct 01 22:26:47 <bkero> The last time I had to actually use a CD to install drivers was when I used windows, that must have been 7 years ago.
Oct 01 22:27:00 <tinker-f595> printer drivers are written for the printer control language
Oct 01 22:27:02 <Tootoot222> bkero: that's not always able to be accomplished, propritary drivers and all
Oct 01 22:27:09 <Tootoot222> tinker-f595: no, well written ones are
Oct 01 22:27:16 <bkero> Tootoot222: Yea, cups has pretty good support nowadays though.
Oct 01 22:27:22 <bkero> barring that, hplip
Oct 01 22:27:29 <Tootoot222> some bad printers use their own 'standard' sometimes
Oct 01 22:27:30 <tinker-f595> cups has better support than Windows
Oct 01 22:28:10 <NightMonkey> Tootoot222: Yah, just use CUPS.
Oct 01 22:28:23 <tinker-f595> it will just work
Oct 01 22:28:27 <Bryanstein> well apple owns cups now...maybe sincce 3 years?
Oct 01 22:28:45 <Bryanstein> yea 2007
Oct 01 22:28:46 <tinker-f595> and it is still GPL and they still supply updates
Oct 01 22:28:53 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: True. But it's still OSS.
Oct 01 22:28:55 <Bryanstein> yes, they have no choice
Oct 01 22:29:06 <Bryanstein> that is the beauty of it all
Oct 01 22:29:29 <bkero> Pretty sure if they own the code they can dual license it.
Oct 01 22:29:34 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: If Apple tries to crush it, it'll be forked into the Uncommon UNIX Printing System. (UUPS).
Oct 01 22:29:49 <Bryanstein> lol NightMonkey
Oct 01 22:29:59 <tinker-f595> apples main concern is to sell their hardware and shepp\ard people to their on line itune store to spend money
Oct 01 22:30:04 <bkero> Apple's been greedy little shits lately, trying to migrate from gcc to llvm so they don't have to contribute patches back to gcc.
Oct 01 22:30:40 <tinker-f595> NightMonkey: I will fix that for you. If Apple tries to crush it, it'll be forked into the Universal  UNIX Printing System. (UUPS).
Oct 01 22:30:47 <NightMonkey> bkero: Yah. The GPL is nice in that it can route around "bad actors".
Oct 01 22:31:00 <NightMonkey> tinker-f595: There you go. :)
Oct 01 22:31:04 <Bryanstein> well one reason I'm not too keen on atom is this whole icc gimmick they are trying to pull and get everyone to use their proprietary compiler
Oct 01 22:31:18 <tinker-f595> NightMonkey: the way mandriva is forking to mageia and open office is forking to libreoffice
Oct 01 22:31:56 <Bryanstein> mandriva, lol
Oct 01 22:32:33 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: They've been trying to pull that ICC stuff for a lot longer. In my experience, people try ICC when they think they need an extra 5% or so potential performance boost.
Oct 01 22:33:06 <bkero> Fuck, I just use acovea when I want an extra 5-20% from my atom.
Oct 01 22:33:10 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: But the impact on productivity among teams doesn't usually merit it.
Oct 01 22:33:24 <bkero> http://staff.osuosl.org/~bkero/dell/rawresults.html
Oct 01 22:33:28 <Bryanstein> NightMonkey, that boost has really been eaten away dramatically ...a few years back it was plausible , no longer
Oct 01 22:34:08 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Just taking the same amount of wall-clock time to performance tune the code usually brings the same boost.
Oct 01 22:34:37 <NightMonkey> Bryanstein: Same time, that is, to configure the ICC stuffs.
Oct 01 22:34:58 <Bryanstein> bkero, you have anything to do with OSWALD?
Oct 01 22:35:45 <bkero> Bryanstein: I have one in my bag right now.
Oct 01 22:37:25 <Bryanstein> bkero, were you at OSCON? those are really neat little devices.
Oct 01 22:37:36 <Thell> OSWALD?
Oct 01 22:38:08 <bkero> Bryanstein: I wasn't as oscon this year, down in the bay area on an internship instead.
Oct 01 22:38:46 <Thell> ahhh, this?  http://beaversource.oregonstate.edu/projects/cspfl
Oct 01 22:38:52 <Bryanstein> Thell, yes that
Oct 01 22:42:25 <Thell> looks pretty darned cool
Oct 02 01:02:11 <noidea> Hey guys, have any of you seen these symptoms before? My sheevaplug's psu is ok, and when it turns on the ethernet LEDs just turn on and the green power light also turns on, but the blue OS-loading light doesnt come on. I also cannot access the serial console
Oct 02 01:02:37 <noidea> It happened while I was sleeping :/ Tried to access it the next day and I couldnt get it
Oct 02 01:02:41 <noidea> get in*
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 02 02:59:57 2010