**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 23 02:59:56 2008
Mar 23 05:44:03 <rwhitby> tonymy01: ping
Mar 23 05:44:12 <tonymy01> ping respond
Mar 23 05:44:21 <tonymy01> hi rod
Mar 23 05:46:08 <rwhitby> tonymy01: do you know of a tap which records the last viewed time of each recording on the toppy?
Mar 23 05:46:25 <rwhitby> or a tap which will update the date on the file each time it is played?
Mar 23 05:46:44 <tonymy01> nope
Mar 23 05:46:45 <rwhitby> I want to know which programs have not been watched forever (e.g. kids programs that they don't watch any more)
Mar 23 05:47:07 <tonymy01> only the libfirebird later releases even allow the datestamps of files to be manipulated
Mar 23 05:47:21 <tonymy01> have you tried the tapworld/whatever websites
Mar 23 05:47:31 <tonymy01> i don't really follow much tap development
Mar 23 05:48:07 <tonymy01> sounds like a niche thing you are after though, I would suggest a tap doesn't exist for what you want
Mar 23 05:48:12 <rwhitby> yeah, I just looked at the decription of each tap at tapworld.cc
Mar 23 05:48:16 <rwhitby> tapworld.net I mean
Mar 23 05:48:30 <tonymy01> i keep forgetting which is the biggest tap site
Mar 23 05:48:44 <tonymy01> is this zanilxx site?
Mar 23 05:48:48 <rwhitby> how hard would it be to knock up a tap which sets the timestamp on the file each time you play it?
Mar 23 05:48:59 <tonymy01> not sure
Mar 23 05:49:12 <tonymy01> i am *struggling* big time to try to make the TZ code work on the TOpfield
Mar 23 05:49:23 <tonymy01> i don't think i have the ability really
Mar 23 05:50:14 <tonymy01> thing is that the tap will have to sample the environ, or you need a new filemanager tap to launch the files from, but apart from that it doesn't sound too hard
Mar 23 05:51:47 <rwhitby> can a tap sample each 5 mins to see which file is playing, and set the timestamp on that file?
Mar 23 05:52:05 <tonymy01> that is what i mean by sample the environ really
Mar 23 05:52:31 <rwhitby> who would be the best person for me to approach to do this for me?
Mar 23 05:52:35 <tonymy01> the api doesn't support file dates
Mar 23 05:53:07 <tonymy01> firebirds library is the only way to do it, have a look at libfirebird, it has a HUGE myriad of options, including lots of file manipulation ones
Mar 23 05:53:26 <tonymy01> he could possibly knock something out in minutes
Mar 23 05:53:27 <rwhitby> where do I find that?
Mar 23 05:53:46 <rwhitby> and where do I contact him - I'd be willing to shoot him at least $20 for such a tap.
Mar 23 05:54:04 <tonymy01> i think it is at tapworld, well, the link
Mar 23 05:54:34 <tonymy01> he is finnish i believe
Mar 23 05:56:09 <tonymy01> i am attempting to polish the EPG_uploader code for timezone stuff, to eliminate confusing options, and then once that is churned out, start looking at porting perlTGD to also set timers for the Wiz using Erics Wizremote stuff.
Mar 23 06:15:57 <rwhitby> HDD_SetFileDateTime
Mar 23 06:15:57 <rwhitby>  - Sets the date and time of an open file
Mar 23 06:16:23 <tonymy01> yep, the libfirebird library
Mar 23 06:16:52 <tonymy01> i have just been playing with the library thus learnt some of the goodies it provided
Mar 23 06:17:02 <rwhitby> HDD_PlaySlotGetAddress
Mar 23 06:17:02 <rwhitby>  - Returns the address of the tPlaySlot structure in the memory
Mar 23 06:18:09 <tonymy01> but are you sure this is what you really want, all your files will be reordered all the time as you play them, will make it not very fun trying to find yesterdays Top Gear for example
Mar 23 06:18:28 <rwhitby> HDD_TouchFile
Mar 23 06:18:28 <rwhitby>  - Sets the file date to the current time
Mar 23 06:19:17 <rwhitby> I'll have to perhaps only do it in a specified folder.
Mar 23 06:19:27 <rwhitby> Anyway, my stuff will be on the Beyonwiz ;-)
Mar 23 06:20:55 <rwhitby> either that, or I can put them all 10 years in the past
Mar 23 06:23:05 <rwhitby> so set file to playback date, but 10 years in the past
Mar 23 06:23:32 <rwhitby> it would, of course, be better to store the data somewhere in the file, and then have a tap to list them in that order.
Mar 23 06:23:58 <tonymy01> sounds good for what you need.
Mar 23 06:25:06 <rwhitby> alternatively, if I could record the number of times that a file has been played in the file somehow, or in a separate text file
Mar 23 06:25:44 <rwhitby> catch the playback of a file, record the filename in a common text file, increment the number associated with that filename.
Mar 23 06:26:02 <rwhitby> PBK must know how to catch the playback of a file ...
Mar 23 06:26:11 <tonymy01> now i think any tap can do that, without the libfirbird
Mar 23 06:26:34 <tonymy01> even epg_uploader captures the names of playing or recording files
Mar 23 06:26:49 <rwhitby> ah, can epg_uploader do this?
Mar 23 06:26:56 <rwhitby> (with a small addition)
Mar 23 06:27:09 <rwhitby> BTW, are you willing to put the source for epg_uploader in an svn repo?
Mar 23 06:27:29 <tonymy01> it captures this so applications can determine what is playing or recording
Mar 23 06:27:38 <tonymy01> i don't know the first thing about svn unfort
Mar 23 06:27:51 <rwhitby> do you develop it on windows or linux?
Mar 23 06:27:53 <tonymy01> i know i can have funky web links to some svns
Mar 23 06:28:21 <tonymy01> i develop it in text files which I compile with the dos to cygwin batch file
Mar 23 06:28:28 <tonymy01> that topfield provides
Mar 23 06:28:39 <tonymy01> i have tried makefiles and failed miserably
Mar 23 06:28:41 <rwhitby> do you have some record of previous source code versions that match released versions?
Mar 23 06:28:58 <rwhitby> ok, so you can use tortoise svn to manage the directory in which you do that stuff
Mar 23 06:29:16 <rwhitby> it just looks like normal files, except you right-click->svn commit to commit.
Mar 23 06:29:32 <tonymy01> the only records are that i store the source in each zip file that i release the app in
Mar 23 06:29:42 <rwhitby> I'd be happy to walk you through it.
Mar 23 06:29:55 <rwhitby> are all the previous releases on the web?
Mar 23 06:30:14 <tonymy01> i think i have tried it once before, but it is an annoying hindrance to a quick churn out of code
Mar 23 06:31:32 <tonymy01> the other issue is that i use 2 or 3 libraries (libfirebird and exTAP) and the tap can't really compile unless all of these are used
Mar 23 06:31:44 <rwhitby> those can be stored as binaries, no problem
Mar 23 06:32:02 <rwhitby> as long as you have some self-contained directory structure, you can put the whole lot in svn
Mar 23 06:32:14 <tonymy01> kind of sort of
Mar 23 06:32:21 <rwhitby> then you just work with it as normal, and you only need to do a single command to check it in for a release.
Mar 23 06:32:39 <rwhitby> svn is much better than cvs if you have ever used cvs before
Mar 23 06:33:00 <tonymy01> maybe it was cvs in the past, it was so long ago i can't remember really :-)
Mar 23 06:33:26 <rwhitby> how about I set up a repo, and put all the source code so far in it, and then walk you through using svn while you walk me through building it from source?
Mar 23 06:33:44 <tonymy01> not yet
Mar 23 06:34:13 <rwhitby> ok, how about I just put the source in a repo from your zip file releases, and then you choose the timing of when you want to switch ... ?
Mar 23 06:34:28 <tonymy01> my dog is hassling me to take her for a walk, and i really need to get this done while I am finally focussed on it  (keep putting off this change to epg_uploader), and am about to go overseas
Mar 23 06:34:44 <rwhitby> ok, the source will be in a repo ready and waiting when you return :-)
Mar 23 06:34:57 <tonymy01> in 2 weeks, but i don't think i will be tap coding all that time
Mar 23 06:35:03 <tonymy01> i haven't even thought about what to pack yet
Mar 23 06:35:08 <rwhitby> you just keep putting it in the zip file release, and I'll do the rest.
Mar 23 06:37:23 <rwhitby> hmm - maybe I need a new domain for the topfield stuff - opentoppy.org?
Mar 23 06:37:53 <tonymy01> there is plenty out there already, peteru setup some stuff already
Mar 23 06:38:05 <rwhitby> ah yeah, at sourceforge wasn't it?
Mar 23 06:38:06 <tonymy01> when he made puppy public
Mar 23 06:38:11 <tonymy01> yes, i think so
Mar 23 06:38:42 <tonymy01> i even think my ancient timer_extend tap is there, but no-one had made any contribution to it
Mar 23 06:38:52 <rwhitby> http://puppy.cvs.sourceforge.net/puppy/
Mar 23 06:39:06 <peteru> Berlios
Mar 23 06:39:25 <rwhitby> peteru: so should we stick with that, or set up an analogue to openwiz.org ?
Mar 23 06:39:37 <peteru> http://developer.berlios.de/projects/tap/
Mar 23 06:40:00 <tonymy01> the topfield is (nearly) history afaic, don't put too much effort in
Mar 23 06:40:01 <peteru> I have not had the time to look after the project, but there are a few active people.
Mar 23 06:40:28 <peteru> I have not been running the Toppy for at least 1/2 year
Mar 23 06:41:04 <tonymy01> i can't live without the automated timer setting that TED (and now teh open sourced perlTGD) provides me
Mar 23 06:41:08 <rwhitby> peteru: want to add me as a co-admin ?  my berlios username is 'rwhitby'
Mar 23 06:41:16 <peteru> I think it would be good to get the source code to things like epg_uploader up there, before it becomes abandonware.
Mar 23 06:41:22 <tonymy01> ok, l8r
Mar 23 06:42:10 <tonymy01> it is nearly abandonware for me because I want to add  bits to it but the complexity is a bit much at this point, and care factor is starting to approach zero :-)
Mar 23 06:42:26 <rwhitby> tonymy01: a good reason to put the source code up.
Mar 23 06:42:38 <rwhitby> peteru: I can handle putting the epg_uploader source there.
Mar 23 06:42:40 <tonymy01> it is provided with every tap release (nearly)
Mar 23 06:42:54 <tonymy01> ok, dog is hassling me
Mar 23 06:42:57 <tonymy01> l8r all
Mar 23 06:43:07 <rwhitby> (since I want to add a feature for the Least-Recently-Played list)
Mar 23 06:43:19 <rwhitby> (or number-of-times-played list)
Mar 23 06:44:03 <peteru> rwhitby: Done. You have exactly the same rights as me.
Mar 23 06:44:19 <rwhitby> peteru: thx - I'll see if I get time to put the source up tomorrow
Mar 23 06:44:23 <peteru> Feel free to inject some life into it.
Mar 23 06:50:34 <rwhitby> Is there an IRC channel where I should send the commit messages?
Mar 23 06:50:43 <rwhitby> (maybe just to this one?)
Mar 23 07:06:53 <rwhitby> rwhitby@take:/home/taps/taps$ svn commit -m "Added EPG_upload directory, ready for source code import"
Mar 23 07:06:53 <rwhitby> Adding         taps/EPG_upload
Mar 23 07:06:53 <rwhitby> svn: Commit failed (details follow):
Mar 23 07:06:53 <rwhitby> svn: Can't create directory '/svnroot/repos/tap/db/transactions/538-1.txn': Permission denied
Mar 23 07:06:55 <rwhitby> rwhitby@take:/home/taps/taps$
Mar 23 07:07:00 <rwhitby> peteru: must be a delay on svn permissions
Mar 23 07:07:27 <rwhitby> back later (dinnner)
Mar 23 09:16:03 <rwhitby> yeah, groups doesn't list tap yet
Mar 23 09:33:52 <rwhitby> ok, looking at EPG_upload.c source, I reckon I'll create a epg_allplayed.tsv file, with a list of <filename>\t<numplays>\t<lastdateplayed> fields
Mar 23 09:34:26 <tonymy01> but you will have to scan that file for the orig number to be able to increment it
Mar 23 09:34:31 <tonymy01> it isn't trivial
Mar 23 09:35:45 <tonymy01> you will need an array of program names or something, which can increase as the number watched are increasing all the time
Mar 23 09:45:37 <tonymy01> maybe easier just to log the file play time and name tab seperated, and then when you pull the file to look at it occassionally, simply import into excel/whatever to get a count happening
Mar 23 10:31:15 <rwhitby> I was looking at the Archive TAP, and it stores some information when you *stop* playing a file.  I can do the same.
Mar 23 10:31:53 <rwhitby> and at that point, I can read through the file, line by line, and write out to a new file, incrementing the line which matches the file just played, or adding it to the end.  no need to keep an array in memory.
Mar 23 10:33:10 <rwhitby> See https://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/tap/trunk/taps/Archive/PlaybackDatFile.c
Mar 23 10:34:10 <tonymy01> good idea
Mar 23 10:34:19 <rwhitby> (but it stores the file in memory, and has a fixed number of files.  I need to store *all* files on the system, and unless I get smart and periodically clean up the file by deleting lines which correspond to files which no longer exist I will need more than the number of files on the machine)
Mar 23 10:34:53 <rwhitby> depending on how much time it takes, I could check for the existence of each filename as I step through the file
Mar 23 10:35:05 <rwhitby> and just not write back out files that no longer exist
Mar 23 10:35:18 <tonymy01> well thought out
Mar 23 10:35:40 <rwhitby> I figure memory footprint is more important than a delay at play stop, right?
Mar 23 10:36:48 <rwhitby> do you have anywhere in EPG_upload where you read and write a file, or is it all reading into data structures, modifying the data structures, and then writing out a completely new file from the data structures?
Mar 23 10:37:19 <tonymy01> i tend to read into ram, increase size if needbe, then write ram to file
Mar 23 10:38:02 <rwhitby> updating the epg_allplayed.tsv file would be optional, and would default to OFF.
Mar 23 10:38:43 <tonymy01> i don't have the security cert for  the svn
Mar 23 10:38:51 <rwhitby> then another "cleanup" tap could delete enough files that haven't been played much, and/or haven't been played recently.
Mar 23 10:38:58 <rwhitby> try with http instead of https
Mar 23 10:39:17 <tonymy01> that helped
Mar 23 10:39:37 <rwhitby> (instead of at the moment, where archiving taps just delete old files without regard for whether they are played often)
Mar 23 10:39:57 <rwhitby> so I think this data would be useful for those taps to read too
Mar 23 10:41:01 <rwhitby> ok, I'll write up some pseudocode in the next couple of weeks and run it by you.
Mar 23 10:41:31 <rwhitby> was 3.17 the first release which included source code?
Mar 23 10:41:46 <tonymy01> i can't remember that far back
Mar 23 10:41:58 <rwhitby> ah, 3.15rls2 did as well.
Mar 23 10:42:12 <rwhitby> I'll start at 3.17, and add tags for each version from there that has source.
Mar 23 10:43:22 <rwhitby> I've kept the 'source' dir, cause you have all these other files in your build area in the directory above.  is the directory actually called 'source' or is it called something else on your disk?
Mar 23 10:45:54 <rwhitby> back later ...
Mar 23 10:46:43 <tonymy01> please don't go to such a huge effort, no-one will be looking at it anyway
Mar 23 10:51:28 <tonymy01> i actually copy my working files to a source directory as I have about 50 files in the directory i work in, so the source can easily be dragged into the zip file
Mar 23 23:33:06 <rwhitby> morning
Mar 23 23:34:27 <tonymy01_> how do i stop trillian/irc from putting an underscore after my name
Mar 23 23:35:46 <rwhitby> tonymy01: I use an IRC bouncer/proxy (bip) which keeps my nick connected and replays me the backlog when I connect to bip with my client
Mar 23 23:36:00 <rwhitby> I could set it up on irc.openwiz.org for you if you like
Mar 23 23:36:41 <tonymy01> don't worry too much rod
Mar 23 23:36:50 <tonymy01> i just don't quite understand why it happens
Mar 23 23:37:03 <tonymy01> it has been happening ever since connecting to irc
Mar 23 23:37:21 <rwhitby> I see the following:
Mar 23 23:37:22 <rwhitby> * tonymy01_ (n=Tony@d58-104-128-153.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #openwiz
Mar 23 23:37:22 <rwhitby> * tonymy01 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Mar 23 23:37:39 <rwhitby> first one at 21:52, second at 22:08
Mar 23 23:38:18 <tonymy01> yesterday my machine had an instant reboot crash, so i can understand that without properly quitting how when logging in again, it will still see the old user, so will append an underscore, but it is really annoying
Mar 23 23:38:45 <tonymy01> but i see this happen without any reboots or crashes
Mar 24 00:49:38 <rwhitby> tonymy01: http://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/tap/trunk/taps/EPG_upload/
Mar 24 00:50:35 <rwhitby> shall I start with that for my epg_allplayed.tsv changes, or do you want to send me 3.26beta2 source for the starting point?
Mar 24 00:51:20 <tonymy01> beta2 isn't really ready
Mar 24 00:52:28 <rwhitby> BTW, it hangs for me on Nov firmware
Mar 24 00:52:41 <rwhitby> so I've stayed with 3.25 for the moment
Mar 24 00:52:57 <tonymy01> is that with the firmware.dat file copied across also?
Mar 24 00:52:58 <rwhitby> (I know you said you haven't actually had time to test with Nov firmware yet)
Mar 24 00:53:05 <rwhitby> yes, I put firmware.dat in ProgramFiles
Mar 24 00:53:14 <rwhitby> (same dir as 3.26 tap)
Mar 24 00:53:32 <tonymy01> this is the first time the tap uses this
Mar 24 00:53:45 <tonymy01> oh, i see what you mean
Mar 24 00:53:59 <tonymy01> i don't test the taps running from programfile
Mar 24 00:54:26 <rwhitby> where do you test?  I test from ProgramFiles rather than ProgramFiles\Auto Start
Mar 24 00:54:35 <tonymy01> i test from auto start of course
Mar 24 00:55:15 <rwhitby> do you think that will make a difference here?
Mar 24 00:55:34 <tonymy01> not sure, i have only just begun using the new firebirdlib
Mar 24 00:56:36 <rwhitby> can you put a tarball of your complete build area up on openwiz.org - just for my personal use to see how you compile things, not for putting on berlios ?
Mar 24 00:56:52 <rwhitby> (I want to work out how to compile epg_upload for myself, so I can test my changes before sending to you)
Mar 24 00:57:10 <tonymy01> it is a huge setup really
Mar 24 00:57:25 <tonymy01> i installed the topfield compiler from years ago, dunno if it is avail any more
Mar 24 00:57:31 <rwhitby> yes, that's why I need the tarball, so I don't have to recreate it from scratch :-)
Mar 24 00:57:41 <tonymy01> it is in winblows
Mar 24 00:57:50 <tonymy01> so tarballs won't help much
Mar 24 00:58:00 <tonymy01> as environment variables are set etc
Mar 24 00:58:16 <rwhitby> yeah, but I can work them out from the scripts etc
Mar 24 00:58:26 <rwhitby> (and then ask you the ones i can't work out for myself)
Mar 24 00:58:57 <rwhitby> BTW, I run windows natively on my main laptop, with cygwin, etc.
Mar 24 00:59:10 <rwhitby> Linux development I do on a server or on vmware on the laptop.
Mar 24 00:59:20 <tonymy01> i don't actually run cygwin, but the topfield apps were compiled for cygwin
Mar 24 00:59:32 <tonymy01> i compile from a .bat file, which i believe i provide with the source
Mar 24 00:59:58 <rwhitby> yep
Mar 24 01:00:10 <tonymy01> the topfield api 1.22 tells you how to get setup
Mar 24 01:00:16 <tonymy01> pdf doc
Mar 24 01:00:24 <tonymy01> is avail on itopfield.com.au
Mar 24 01:00:39 <rwhitby> I'm looking for ../Flash.o, ..\Firmware.o, ../exTAP.o, ../patches.o, etc
Mar 24 01:01:29 <rwhitby> (that's why I'm asking for a tarball of your build area, so I don't need to bug you about all these little things - I can work them out for myself)
Mar 24 01:01:37 <tonymy01> i ditched all that actually for 3.26beta2/3, using lib files instead
Mar 24 01:02:30 <rwhitby> ok, can you send me that new setup?
Mar 24 01:02:32 <tonymy01> except for patches.o, which is simply a gcc.bat of the patches.c that is created by the exTAP generate patches (which uses f/w revisions to build patches)
Mar 24 01:03:04 <tonymy01> it is not easy, as i have about 30 subfolders off c:\work\tap
Mar 24 01:03:14 <tonymy01> but the main libraries are in c:\work\tap
Mar 24 01:03:28 <tonymy01> and the cygwin compiler is in c:\cygwin
Mar 24 01:03:34 <rwhitby> yep, I'm asking for a zip of that whole area, including all subdirs, in the state it is in right now.
Mar 24 01:03:42 <rwhitby> (not cygwin, just \work\tap)
Mar 24 01:04:08 <tonymy01> it is a right pain really, i have every tap in there
Mar 24 01:04:15 <tonymy01> and pdf docs
Mar 24 01:04:17 <tonymy01> and readmes
Mar 24 01:04:27 <tonymy01> and... just all junk accumulated over 4 years
Mar 24 01:04:45 <rwhitby> yep, I can deal with that.  Can you upload it to your dir on openwiz.org?
Mar 24 01:05:12 <tonymy01> what do i use for transfer, i presume not ftp
Mar 24 01:05:31 <rwhitby> have you used winscp before?
Mar 24 01:05:48 <rwhitby> (allows transfers over ssh)
Mar 24 01:05:54 <tonymy01> ok
Mar 24 01:06:24 <rwhitby> If you have PuTTY set up with your private ssh key, then winscp uses the same settings.
Mar 24 01:08:21 <tonymy01> that's right, i forgot winscp is one of those things i downloaded with putty eons ago
Mar 24 01:13:17 <rwhitby> bbiab, let me know if there are any problems with the upload - it should work fine with the key you sent ( rsa-key-20080218 )
Mar 24 01:13:38 <tonymy01> i am in now
Mar 24 01:14:24 <tonymy01> i will leave a directory or zip in there
Mar 24 01:16:45 <rwhitby> thx
Mar 24 01:17:10 <rwhitby> don't worry about trying to sort anything out - just upload the lot and I'll sort through it at this end
Mar 24 01:18:46 <tonymy01> i purged all the non-epguploader directories
Mar 24 01:19:09 <tonymy01> and even the epguploader subdirectories that has all my junk and backups etc in
Mar 24 01:19:23 <tonymy01> 3meg file transferring now
Mar 24 01:19:39 <tonymy01> tonymy01\tap.zip
Mar 24 01:20:09 <tonymy01> 50secs before transfer completion
Mar 24 01:20:48 <tonymy01> this is the latest as of 30mins ago, i am trying to read a timezone structure at the moment, so have a sample line in the main part of the tap to call my timezone read routine
Mar 24 01:21:07 <tonymy01> is transferred
Mar 24 01:22:53 <tonymy01> as per the topfield api documentation:
Mar 24 01:23:00 <tonymy01> set (snip)
Mar 24 01:23:01 <tonymy01> CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=C:\WORK\TAP;C:\CYGWIN\INCLUDE; C:\CYGWIN\USR\INCLUDE
Mar 24 01:23:01 <tonymy01> C_INCLUDE_PATH=C:\WORK\TAP;C:\CYGWIN\INCLUDE; C:\CYGWIN\USR\INCLUDE
Mar 24 01:24:02 <tonymy01> i also see C:\CYGWIN\USR\LOCAL\BIN; in my path list
Mar 24 01:25:08 <rwhitby> thx
Mar 24 01:26:49 <tonymy01> you will need to install the berlios api i think, as the topfield gcc compiler is no longer avail
Mar 24 01:29:22 <rwhitby> got it, thx.
Mar 24 01:29:44 <rwhitby> Do you see any reason why I shouldn't be able to get this to build on Linux with the Berlios API?
Mar 24 01:29:46 <tonymy01> actually i didn't mean api, as all the api libraries are in the zip file i gave you
Mar 24 01:29:54 <rwhitby> s/api/toolchain/
Mar 24 01:30:23 <tonymy01> (the api is the libtap.a)
Mar 24 01:30:32 <tonymy01> and associated tap.h
Mar 24 01:30:34 <rwhitby> (I'll get it to build on windows first, but would like to try on linux after that)
Mar 24 01:31:03 <tonymy01> i had a go on linux, but had enough errors and issues that i decided to go back to tried and true
Mar 24 01:31:17 <rwhitby> ok, so I'll expect a rocky path when I try then :-)
Mar 24 01:31:26 <tonymy01> maybe not
Mar 24 01:31:59 <rwhitby> ok, off to the hardware shop now - got some outside jobs to do today
Mar 24 01:32:01 <tonymy01> i haven't tried on a "true" linux system, only a cygwin
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 24 02:59:57 2008