**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 21 02:59:56 2008
Jun 21 03:11:50 <Yuv422> bbl
Jun 21 03:11:54 <Yuv422> time for lunch
Jun 21 04:59:31 <peteru> I think that the Beyonwiz hardware platform has now reached the sell-out commodity price point. One of many examples: http://www.mwave.com.au/newAU/mwaveAU/productdetail.asp?sku=29030105&RID=weekend-04
Jun 21 05:02:22 <Yuv422> Hi Peter
Jun 21 05:02:27 <Yuv422> what do you mean by that
Jun 21 05:02:42 <Yuv422> they are running out stock of that chip
Jun 21 05:03:39 <peteru> No, I mean that the 862x based hardware is now in the domain of cheap mass produced Chinese products that are now being sold at reduced prices because the market is saturated.
Jun 21 05:03:50 <Yuv422> ah k
Jun 21 05:04:22 <peteru> It means that the 862x product line has plateaued and it's all downhill from here. ;-)
Jun 21 05:04:24 <Yuv422> that would mean good news for bw in terms of unit pricing
Jun 21 05:04:41 <Yuv422> why so
Jun 21 05:04:54 <peteru> Bad news in terms of profit margins.
Jun 21 05:05:02 <Yuv422> ah k
Jun 21 05:06:02 <Yuv422> what about the IP in creating a good PVR interface
Jun 21 05:06:07 <Yuv422> ;-)
Jun 21 05:06:07 <peteru> It means that people will be able to get a $200 PVR and a $200 media player rather than an $800 combo unit.
Jun 21 05:06:24 <Yuv422> yeah
Jun 21 05:06:55 <Yuv422> I'm thinking about going back to a standalone dvd player
Jun 21 05:07:10 <tonymy01> hi
Jun 21 05:07:11 <Yuv422> I gave up an oppo for the bw
Jun 21 05:07:24 <peteru> In terms of pricing, it's easier to get people to spend two times $300 than one payment of $550
Jun 21 05:08:32 <peteru> I reckon we will see the 862x based players flooding the market as of now and the 863x based players will slowly mature and peak before Christmas.
Jun 21 05:08:59 <tonymy01> that thread peter that i showed you the other day, that dodgy limHD was 400pounds!!
Jun 21 05:09:08 <tonymy01> 1year ago mind you
Jun 21 05:09:27 <peteru> The mwave special is $250
Jun 21 05:09:35 <tonymy01> just looking now
Jun 21 05:09:55 <peteru> http://www.sarotech.com/english/product/dvp-570.html for more detail.
Jun 21 05:10:20 <Yuv422> what's the next step from 862x generation of devices
Jun 21 05:10:23 <Yuv422> 1080p
Jun 21 05:10:27 <Yuv422> blu-ray
Jun 21 05:10:28 <tonymy01> but people won't realise that the wiz has the same guts as this i don't think, as there really isn't many pvr based 862x units (is there any apart from teh wiz?)
Jun 21 05:10:38 <tonymy01> 1080p is capable from the 862x
Jun 21 05:10:51 <tonymy01> but bandwidth is pushing it
Jun 21 05:11:36 <peteru> http://www.sarotech.com/english/product/dvp-570s.html is even more interesting.
Jun 21 05:12:10 <tonymy01> sata could mean 863x or simply an adapter
Jun 21 05:13:06 <tonymy01> ok, 8621
Jun 21 05:15:30 <peteru> I think this one may be 863x based: http://www.midte.com/English/Products/MDT-PM398.html
Jun 21 05:15:48 <tonymy01> mwave is the bunch that kept screwing up my WD5000 HDD delivery
Jun 21 05:15:54 <tonymy01> they are at lidcomb
Jun 21 05:15:56 <tonymy01> e
Jun 21 05:16:12 <peteru> Either way, it's being made in Shenzen, which means that it's reached the commodity status.
Jun 21 05:16:41 <tonymy01> why are all these silly media players in tall profile, not very entertainment unit friendly
Jun 21 05:17:21 <tonymy01> but you are right about the commod. status.   My friend bought a media player recently, and he knows nothing about PCs etc, and is raving about it.
Jun 21 05:17:59 <tonymy01> they have to put wirelessN in these things to support 1080 anything (i or p)
Jun 21 05:18:22 <tonymy01> mine is doing network things like a dream now with the cat5 rather than 802.11g
Jun 21 05:18:46 <tonymy01> jpg slideshows only have a brief gap between them for example too..
Jun 21 05:19:43 <tonymy01> problem with the chinese units is communication to get bugs fixed is poor, if that thread about the limHD is anything to go by
Jun 21 05:20:01 <tonymy01> mind you, we don't really have very good comms to the Koreans at the moment either
Jun 21 05:20:40 <peteru> I don't think you should expect any firmware updates at all ever. You buy cheap Chinese products as they are. There is no support and no guarantee of performance.
Jun 21 05:21:06 <tonymy01> yep, they produce to sell, not support
Jun 21 05:21:28 <tonymy01> make a batch of 10,000 units, then move on (or whatever the numbers would be)
Jun 21 05:27:59 <peteru> With some luck, you can plonk alternative firmware on there - perhaps that's one reason why Beyonwiz do not want to let go of the GPL source - they are afraid that it could be used with cheap hardware.
Jun 21 05:28:36 <peteru> But, Beyonwiz are in a unique position of having very different hardware to all the other reference designs, so the risk is minimal.
Jun 21 05:29:12 <tonymy01> when i get the motivation, I am going to attempt to boot some of the gpl kernels
Jun 21 05:29:28 <tonymy01> easy to do with serial access
Jun 21 05:33:52 <peteru> One benefit of uclinux is that because of the lack of mmu, the application can act as the device driver.
Jun 21 05:34:07 <peteru> Well, when I say benefit, I mean a two edged sword.
Jun 21 05:34:24 <Yuv422> and third party apps can snoop all memory
Jun 21 05:34:49 <tonymy01> yeah, no memory protection can mean (eventually) patches like the 5K has
Jun 21 05:35:17 <tonymy01> but without a global presence, i am not sure how much we can move forward any tweaks or hacks on the wiz
Jun 21 05:35:33 <peteru> It allows Beyonwiz to put a lot of the hardware specific code into their application, which also means that replacing their application with a better alternative becomes extremely hard, since there are no device drivers.
Jun 21 05:36:32 <tonymy01> i am asuming the dvb-t side and hdmi side won't work with another solution, but if there is a better media player out there, it would be nice to provide an option to boot and/or launch the newer app
Jun 21 05:38:12 <tonymy01> this is their current "WIN" solution by the way:
Jun 21 05:38:13 <tonymy01> RMDCCSetTempTvType to 16:7
Jun 21 05:38:13 <tonymy01> RMDCCResetTempTvType
Jun 21 05:38:33 <tonymy01> must be enough to fool the Sigma SDK to not try to letterbox
Jun 21 05:38:51 <tonymy01> (that was zooming, and returning from zoom)
Jun 21 05:39:29 <tonymy01> it is strange though, it causes normal 16: 9 material to pillarbox
Jun 21 05:40:07 <tonymy01> so buggered if i know how that manages to work in with fixing the WIN issue, but it does seem to do the trick on the 10second WIN sample I have.
Jun 21 05:40:51 <peteru> I doubt that it would be impossible to get the behaviour right, it just may not fit too well with existing software architecture.
Jun 21 11:48:54 <Yuv422> ok I've just connected via upnp on my wizmac app
Jun 21 11:49:09 <tonymy01> did you get the serial going?
Jun 21 11:49:16 <Yuv422> not yet
Jun 21 11:49:31 <Yuv422> haven't been able to get the wiz out
Jun 21 11:49:38 <tonymy01> ahh, ok
Jun 21 11:49:41 <Yuv422> :-)
Jun 21 11:49:51 <Yuv422> might give it a crack tomorrow
Jun 21 11:49:57 <tonymy01> did you see if your nas will load the driver for the cable though?
Jun 21 11:50:20 <Yuv422> hehe no
Jun 21 11:50:28 <Yuv422> I looked at the list of loaded modules
Jun 21 11:50:34 <Yuv422> but that's as far as I got
Jun 21 11:51:03 <Yuv422> can you cross compile a linux kernel module on a non linux machine?
Jun 21 11:51:23 <Yuv422> it sounds like it would be a bit tricky
Jun 21 11:51:24 <tonymy01> maybe..
Jun 21 11:52:07 <Yuv422> I'll have to give it a go
Jun 21 11:52:42 <Yuv422> I'm just trying to get WizMac out the door
Jun 21 11:52:56 <Yuv422> It's almost there
Jun 21 11:53:08 <tonymy01> i thought it was out weeks ago, or was that the beta & source only
Jun 21 11:53:23 <Yuv422> yeah that's just source
Jun 21 11:53:27 <Yuv422> in subversion
Jun 21 11:53:35 <Yuv422> I haven't released a binary yet
Jun 21 11:53:55 <Yuv422> some guys have been compiling it up and trying it out
Jun 21 11:53:58 <Yuv422> which is good
Jun 21 15:00:39 <CIA-6> openwiz: efry * r11 wizmac/trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
Jun 21 15:00:39 <CIA-6> openwiz: Added UPnP support.
Jun 21 15:00:39 <CIA-6> openwiz: Added new connection dialog sheet.
Jun 21 15:00:39 <CIA-6> openwiz: TODO. I need to fix the auto connect code. It is currently disabled.
Jun 22 00:51:25 <CIA-6> openwiz: efry * r12 wizmac/trunk/ (10 files):
Jun 22 00:51:25 <CIA-6> openwiz: Added 'Auto connect' back in. You can now auto connect using a upnp name.
Jun 22 00:51:25 <CIA-6> openwiz: Tidied up the new connection sheet a bit.
Jun 22 02:51:43 <Yuv422> Yay my serial port works
Jun 22 02:52:10 <Yuv422> Version : 1.0.14.1 build 8
Jun 22 02:52:11 <Yuv422> System ID              : 08080000:0E20BE3E
Jun 22 02:52:11 <Yuv422> init started:  BusyBox v1.00 (2008.04.08-13:14+0000) multi-call binary
Jun 22 02:52:11 <Yuv422> Starting pid 11, console /dev/ttyAM0: '/etc/rc.sysinit'
Jun 22 02:52:11 <Yuv422> PID 32 : code start = 0x92dc0040, code end = 0x92e184c0
Jun 22 02:52:12 <Yuv422> WIZPIMP: vfd_version 01.05.247
Jun 22 02:52:13 <Yuv422> PID 32 : code start = 0x92dc0040, code end = 0x92e184c0
Jun 22 02:52:15 <Yuv422> PID 45 : code start = 0x91c78040, code end = 0x92101700
Jun 22 02:52:17 <Yuv422> dump.dat at 0x90D7EDF0
Jun 22 02:52:19 <Yuv422> HDD : write cache disabled (1)
Jun 22 02:52:21 <Yuv422> HDD : write cache enabled (1)
Jun 22 02:52:23 <Yuv422> sys_up : parsing /etc/config/network/wired
Jun 22 02:52:25 <Yuv422> sys_up : parsing /etc/config/network/wireless
Jun 22 02:52:27 <Yuv422> sys_up : link status off (eth0)
Jun 22 02:52:29 <Yuv422> sys_up : link status off (eth0)... skipping...
Jun 22 02:57:43 <Yuv422> strange that I don't get all the kernel messages
Jun 22 02:57:49 <Yuv422> on bootup
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 22 02:59:57 2008