**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 02 02:59:57 2007
Jan 02 07:56:55 <CIA-6> florian * r5963 /trunk/target/linux/brcm63xx-2.6/config: Enable pcmcia for brcm63xx (#1125)
Jan 02 08:08:09 <CIA-6> florian * r5964 /trunk/target/linux/ixp4xx-2.6/image/apex/Makefile: Add another download source, also mirror it to openwrt mirror (#1124)
Jan 02 08:11:11 <rwhitby> [florian]: thx
Jan 02 08:13:17 <rwhitby> (any other stylistic/corrective comments?)
Jan 02 08:14:17 <CIA-6> florian * r5965 /packages/net/netpipe/Makefile: Change category
Jan 02 08:21:16 <[florian]> rwhitby: for other things it's great
Jan 02 08:27:58 <[florian]> rwhitby: does it work out of box on devices you tested ?
Jan 02 08:28:47 <rwhitby> well, it boots, but there is some problem with the jffs2 that requires exactly three boots before rootfs loads.
Jan 02 08:29:12 <rwhitby> once you've booted it the third time (and it needs that any time you write to jffs2) it's fine.
Jan 02 08:29:33 <rwhitby> (except the /etc/resolv.conf being a real file instead of a symlink to /tmp/resolv.conf)
Jan 02 08:29:39 <[florian]> rwhitby: why three times ? does this trigger something particular ?
Jan 02 08:30:16 <rwhitby> dunno yet - I remember something similar back in the early days of nslu2-linux 2.5 years ago, but can't remember well enough to know what it was.
Jan 02 08:30:35 <[florian]> maybe kernel config ? or the way image got generated ?
Jan 02 08:30:40 <[florian]> or even mkfs.jffs2 version ?
Jan 02 08:31:12 <rwhitby> no, there's nothing wrong with the jffs2 image itself, it seems as though it's not readable in the hardware until the third boot
Jan 02 08:31:53 <rwhitby> the jffs2 works fine on the nas100d, so it's an nslu2-specific thing.
Jan 02 08:32:10 <[florian]> ok
Jan 02 08:33:02 <rwhitby> I'll have a look through the generic 2.6 patches to see if there is something there which is overriding something, cause normally the nslu2 works from mainline kernel.org with jffs2 fine.
Jan 02 08:33:38 <rwhitby> there's obviously other tweaking required in userland, but that'll come in time.
Jan 02 08:33:48 <[florian]> ok
Jan 02 08:34:20 <[florian]> rwhitby: have you tried pushing your patches to the arm-linux mainline branch ? if so, was there anything blocking, regarding licensing or platform stability ?
Jan 02 08:35:13 <rwhitby> we've pushed a number of nslu2 patches for the platform.  The ones that are in openwrt now are waiting on the open source ixp driver to be pushed into mainline, or for the new i2c platform configuration options to be pushed.
Jan 02 08:36:10 <[florian]> ok
Jan 02 08:36:21 <[florian]> I think many people are waiting for that driver :)
Jan 02 08:36:39 <[florian]> was it closed source, or under intel special licensing before an open source iniative existed ?
Jan 02 08:41:41 <rwhitby> intel public license - any distribution requires a click-through
Jan 02 08:41:54 <[florian]> ok, so it is not really open source
Jan 02 08:42:01 <rwhitby> and must not be encumbered by GPL or any other license
Jan 02 08:42:30 <rwhitby> the new open source one is GPL, but the microcode that needs to be loaded is still under the same Intel license.
Jan 02 08:42:30 <armijn> click-through...awkward on embedded platforms
Jan 02 08:42:46 <[florian]> so how do you proceed to get rid of this special licensing ? you have to rewrite the whole driver + ucode ?
Jan 02 08:42:50 <rwhitby> Intel relicensed their driver as BSD, but not the microcode.
Jan 02 08:43:14 <[florian]> the work of openixp is to rewrite the microcode ?
Jan 02 08:43:28 <rwhitby> Christian Hohnstaedt has rewritten the driver from scratch, not the microcode.
Jan 02 08:43:33 <rwhitby> never heard of openixp.
Jan 02 08:43:50 <[florian]> well, I don't think this is the right project name, but the guy behind
Jan 02 08:44:18 <rwhitby> http://openixp.devel.phj.hu/cgi-bin/trac.cgi - ok, I've never seen that before.
Jan 02 08:45:17 <rwhitby> guess I need to get in touch with that guy.
Jan 02 08:45:24 <rwhitby> does he frequent IRC?
Jan 02 08:45:38 <[florian]> I don't know
Jan 02 08:45:46 <[florian]> I guess so
Jan 02 08:46:55 <rwhitby> is he contributing back into openwrt?
Jan 02 08:47:23 <[florian]> never heard or such things, or not directly
Jan 02 08:48:53 <armijn> at least he is inspired by it
Jan 02 08:49:09 <armijn> according to the logos on his site
Jan 02 08:50:48 <rwhitby> last checkin was 10 months ago.
Jan 02 08:51:03 <rwhitby> it's either *very* stable ;-) or dead,
Jan 02 08:53:51 <[florian]> I think it is unfortunately dead
Jan 02 08:54:35 <wigyori> 'morning
Jan 02 08:54:45 <[florian]> mornin' wigyori
Jan 02 08:54:58 <wigyori> hi [florian], rwhitby
Jan 02 08:55:05 <wrt> welcome to #openwrt-devel!
Jan 02 09:02:11 <[florian]> so many files to mirror to openwrt :(
Jan 02 09:03:32 <CIA-6> florian * r5966 /trunk/package/yamonenv/Makefile: Was not selected by default actually :/
Jan 02 09:05:20 <wigyori> hm, openbsd goes embedded? ;p
Jan 02 09:05:48 <[florian]> why not, the day they will have decent mips support ;)
Jan 02 09:08:03 <wigyori> :)
Jan 02 09:09:41 <rwhitby> hi wigyori
Jan 02 09:09:47 <wrt> rwhitby: what?
Jan 02 09:10:09 <[florian]> shut up wrt
Jan 02 09:14:44 <rwhitby> [florian]: maybe it's dead due to Intel lawyers.  The ixNpeB and ixNpeC files in http://openixp.devel.phj.hu/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/target/linux/linux-2.6/wrv54g/files violate the intel license.  Not a very smart thing to do, given Intel's expenditure on lawyers.
Jan 02 09:18:29 <CIA-6> florian * r5967 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/rules.mk: Backport INSTALL_CONF to wr
Jan 02 09:18:52 <[florian]> rwhitby: ah, so it might be stuck with lawyers :(
Jan 02 09:19:51 <armijn> OpenBSD goes embedded? sweet
Jan 02 09:19:59 <armijn> might need to get routers for them too then
Jan 02 09:22:16 <CIA-6> florian * r5968 /packages/net/igmpproxy/Makefile: Fix executable bit on igmpproxy
Jan 02 09:22:38 <[florian]> armijn: doh !
Jan 02 09:24:00 <armijn> [florian]: no worries, I'm busy arranging some AR7 routers
Jan 02 09:24:20 <[florian]> armijn: I am not worried, you are very generous, this is a very kind way to support projects
Jan 02 09:24:37 <armijn> [florian]: I know
Jan 02 09:24:47 <wigyori> armijn: it's the landisk i was surprised at
Jan 02 09:25:02 <armijn> [florian]: but I can also get nasty...
Jan 02 09:25:08 <wigyori> though i would be curious what they would do if they have to fit in 4/8m
Jan 02 09:25:20 <armijn> [florian]: for example, did you know that you actually violate the GPL?
Jan 02 09:25:30 <armijn> wigyori: you mean the netgear thingie?
Jan 02 09:25:55 <[florian]> armijn: me personnaly, or the openwrt project ?
Jan 02 09:26:00 <wigyori> armijn: no, the iodata one, it's an sh4-based nas
Jan 02 09:26:05 <wigyori> http://www.openbsd.org/landisk.html
Jan 02 09:26:14 <armijn> [florian]: you
Jan 02 09:26:39 <[florian]> armijn: I see one thing I do which is not good
Jan 02 09:26:49 <[florian]> I removed the makefile sources on my old openwrt repository
Jan 02 09:26:50 <armijn> [florian]: you are having these packages for OpenWrt on your website, but where are the scripts to control compilation? ;-)
Jan 02 09:26:58 <armijn> [florian]: exactly :)
Jan 02 09:27:07 <armijn> [florian]: and I am pretty desperate for those Nagios buildfiles
Jan 02 09:27:23 <armijn> :)
Jan 02 09:27:23 <[florian]> armijn: I don't get my hand on my old nagios makefile
Jan 02 09:27:47 <[florian]> maybe I have them here
Jan 02 09:28:02 <[florian]> got it :)
Jan 02 09:28:46 <armijn> heh
Jan 02 09:28:57 <[florian]> I will put them back online for a while, the time I move this stuff to the official repositor
Jan 02 09:29:01 <[florian]> y
Jan 02 09:29:52 <armijn> cool :)
Jan 02 09:31:44 <[florian]> ok, done
Jan 02 09:32:19 <armijn> thanks :)
Jan 02 09:32:49 <[florian]> np
Jan 02 09:33:06 <armijn> so, that was my nasty side...I will go back to being friendly me
Jan 02 09:33:21 <[florian]> I don't exactly remember why I removed those sources, maybe too much emails about makefile that did not work with whiterussian sdk
Jan 02 09:33:40 <armijn> so, I actually can get a few AR7 machines, which probably need serial and JTAG to be revived
Jan 02 09:42:08 <Kaloz> rwhitby: that guy was on irc for a few weeks only
Jan 02 09:42:42 <Kaloz> rwhitby: they hacked up some whiterussian with kamikaze packages and hardcoded everything.. when i've asked him to resync with kamikaze, he disappeared
Jan 02 09:43:20 <Kaloz> rwhitby: so i've did everything myself, and ignored their work - one of the reasons were the fact that they are violating intel's licensing
Jan 02 09:44:33 <Kaloz> [10:48:44] < armijn> OpenBSD goes embedded? sweet
Jan 02 09:44:49 <Kaloz> armijn: you have to be kidding.. bsd and embedded in one sentece is more then a joke
Jan 02 09:45:08 <Kaloz> they have no embedded libc and utilities.. and they even deny to make something like that
Jan 02 09:45:34 <Kaloz> i know one of the openbsd devs and he said they hate the "crippled" stuff like busybox and uclibc
Jan 02 09:46:10 <Kaloz> and he wasn't able to understand why did i keep telling him that something with more then 4MB flash isn't that embedded
Jan 02 09:46:29 <Kaloz> basically the current openbsd embedded hype makes me remember the netbsd hype a few years before
Jan 02 09:46:58 <nbd> 4 mb flash is fine with bsd, they'll just mount the rootfs over nfs :)
Jan 02 09:47:22 <Kaloz> sorry, forget that "real use scennario"
Jan 02 09:47:28 <Kaloz> :P
Jan 02 09:47:58 <nbd> well, if you hype something, it doesn't matter if it's actually usable :)
Jan 02 09:48:05 <rwhitby> Kaloz: ok, so we'll do it right this time around :-)
Jan 02 09:48:20 <rwhitby> (ixp4xx port of openwrt)
Jan 02 09:49:17 <Kaloz> nbd: oh, come on, gimme $20 :PP
Jan 02 09:49:23 <nbd> lol
Jan 02 09:49:33 <Kaloz> rwhitby: yep.. i hope someone will RE the microcode as well
Jan 02 09:50:44 <nbd> maybe we should ask marvell about the microcode licensing
Jan 02 09:50:50 <Kaloz> nope
Jan 02 09:50:53 <Kaloz> marvell has pxa
Jan 02 09:50:55 <Kaloz> not ixp
Jan 02 09:51:06 <nbd> i thought they bought all xscale stuff from intel...
Jan 02 09:51:09 <Kaloz> intel kept ixp and iop
Jan 02 09:51:14 <nbd> ah, ok
Jan 02 09:51:16 <[florian]> nbd: I was planning on writing ralink plugin for wifi, do you think we should use the RTchipset.dat file or use wirless tools to push commands ?
Jan 02 09:51:19 <nbd> then i misread that press release
Jan 02 09:51:25 <wigyori> Kaloz: it was me actually who said 'openbsd goes embedded' first, i got surprised they're going on the landisk platform ;p
Jan 02 09:51:38 <nbd> [florian]: what's RTchipset.dat?
Jan 02 09:52:17 <[florian]> nbd: the driver once loaded is reading /etc/Wireless/RT2x00/RT2x00.dat for options to be set automatically
Jan 02 09:52:22 <[florian]> nbd: once the interface is uped
Jan 02 09:52:25 <Kaloz> wigyori: probably it's the same as netbsd on atheros socs.. 4mb is enough for kernel with ramdisk with the drivers and a plain crippled shell
Jan 02 09:52:33 <nbd> [florian]: that's for the legacy driver
Jan 02 09:52:44 <nbd> [florian]: do you think it's worth adding /etc/config/wireless support for that one?
Jan 02 09:52:50 <wigyori> Kaloz: yep, not more
Jan 02 09:52:53 <Kaloz> wigyori: of course it can't really do anything, but hey, it's "embedded")
Jan 02 09:52:59 <[florian]> nbd: if the wireless-dev driver behaves like that, yeah, else no :)
Jan 02 09:52:59 <wigyori> yep ;p
Jan 02 09:53:14 <[florian]> nbd: I just wanted to translate /etc/config/wireless options to a .dat file
Jan 02 09:53:20 <[florian]> nbd: so not much work
Jan 02 09:53:21 <nbd> [florian]: i don't think the wireless-dev driver is going to behave that way
Jan 02 09:53:38 <Kaloz> anyways, i'm sick as a dog so i go and try to sleep a bit, and drink a few liters of tea
Jan 02 09:53:42 <Kaloz> be back later guys
Jan 02 09:53:55 <nbd> see you
Jan 02 09:54:13 <[florian]> see you
Jan 02 09:54:55 <nbd> [florian]: do you want a package directory for rt2x00?
Jan 02 09:55:08 <nbd> [florian]: and do you have test hardware that you can use it on?
Jan 02 09:55:27 <[florian]> nbd: I have a mimo mini-pci card I can use for testing
Jan 02 09:55:38 <nbd> great
Jan 02 09:55:46 <nbd> i'll send you my WiP tree soon
Jan 02 09:55:58 <[florian]> ok
Jan 02 09:56:06 <nbd> i wasn't able to make it work with a specific card on 23c3, but that was probably because i tried to run it on magicbox
Jan 02 09:56:14 <nbd> apparently the driver still has endianness issues...
Jan 02 09:56:26 <nbd> so you should try it on an LE target
Jan 02 09:56:58 <[florian]> I will use the accesscube as hardware to test
Jan 02 09:57:08 <[florian]> nbd: you tried with crazy_imp's card ?
Jan 02 09:57:34 <nbd> yes, i think it was crazy_imp's
Jan 02 09:57:58 <[florian]> we had a try with the legacy driver, I needed to add the pciid to make it dected, but it was not "drivable"
Jan 02 09:58:21 <nbd> the legacy drivers are crap
Jan 02 09:58:47 <[florian]> looks like, yes
Jan 02 10:00:24 <[florian]> anyway, they don't require external firmware to work, which is great
Jan 02 10:03:00 <[florian]> damn, many packages broken
Jan 02 10:05:49 <[florian]> at least : howl
Jan 02 10:05:53 <[florian]> at least : gphoto2
Jan 02 10:05:53 <[florian]> kismet
Jan 02 10:05:53 <[florian]> pwc
Jan 02 10:05:53 <[florian]> shfs
Jan 02 10:05:59 <[florian]> lcd4linux
Jan 02 10:07:35 <nbd> i think at least rt61 does require external firmware
Jan 02 10:07:35 <nbd> dunno which of the other ones do as well
Jan 02 10:08:47 <[florian]> I think rt2500 does not
Jan 02 10:09:19 <[florian]> nbd: did you try a recent build on osx ? looks like the kernel make oldconfig is broken
Jan 02 10:09:27 <[florian]> I will see what happens reallly
Jan 02 10:44:06 <[florian]> how do you guys usually delete files with rsync ?
Jan 02 10:47:55 <rwhitby> --delete ?
Jan 02 10:48:13 <[florian]> in which way ?
Jan 02 10:48:19 <[florian]> rsync --delete local remote ?
Jan 02 10:48:33 <nbd> there's no sane way to do delete
Jan 02 10:48:36 <[florian]> I want to delete a directory on the repository
Jan 02 10:48:43 <nbd> you need to sync the whole repo
Jan 02 10:48:46 <nbd> delete the local file
Jan 02 10:48:48 <rwhitby> "rsync -avr --delete localdir remotedir" will delete anything in remote that is not in local
Jan 02 10:48:50 <nbd> then sync the other way again
Jan 02 10:50:13 <[florian]> humm
Jan 02 10:50:19 <rwhitby> (and will also update remote from local - which you may not want to do)
Jan 02 10:51:15 <[florian]> humm
Jan 02 13:16:45 <crazy_imp> missed i something to enable in menuconfig? no telnet is open, ssh is also down :/ (rev 5968)
Jan 02 13:22:07 <nbd> crazy_imp: is it a fresh checkout or an upgrade?
Jan 02 13:23:31 <crazy_imp> i rm'ed tmp and also done make clean, so i think it should be ok, or?
Jan 02 13:26:03 <nbd> you need to reset your config
Jan 02 13:26:15 <nbd> (busybox config breakage...)
Jan 02 13:27:24 <crazy_imp> ack
Jan 02 13:38:03 <armijn> Kaloz: I'm not kidding
Jan 02 13:38:19 <armijn> Kaloz: the BSD libc is quite a bit smaller than glibc (no denying there)
Jan 02 13:38:41 <Kaloz> armijn: and way bigger then uclibc ;)
Jan 02 13:39:41 * armijn throws Kaloz a bone
Jan 02 13:39:52 <armijn> you said you were sick as a dog, so...
Jan 02 13:40:50 <Kaloz> yeah... woke up at 4am, had to vomit...
Jan 02 13:41:02 <Kaloz> once it was strong enough to have some blood in it as well...
Jan 02 13:41:17 <armijn> Kaloz: TMI
Jan 02 13:41:53 <armijn> :P
Jan 02 13:41:56 <Kaloz> :P
Jan 02 13:42:16 <armijn> Kaloz: does it help you if I say there will be a few more AR7 devices for OpenWrt at FOSDEM?
Jan 02 13:43:35 <Kaloz> not really this time, but nice try :p
Jan 02 13:45:39 <armijn> hm
Jan 02 13:45:41 <armijn> k
Jan 02 13:46:23 <Kaloz> i will be happy if i won't have to "take that trip" again i did in the morning
Jan 02 14:36:52 * crazy_imp is happy, ssh is working now :) thanks nbd
Jan 02 14:42:10 <armijn> hm
Jan 02 14:42:14 <armijn> ehr
Jan 02 14:42:21 <armijn> 20 AR7 based routers OK?
Jan 02 14:43:50 <armijn> there's a catch though
Jan 02 14:44:07 <armijn> they are RMA routers (so might be dead) and PSUs are missing
Jan 02 15:15:09 <Kaloz> :)
Jan 02 15:15:21 <armijn> how am I going to tell my mum
Jan 02 16:46:20 <armijn> and how will I be able to get them to FOSDEM...
Jan 02 18:47:00 * crazy_imp plays around with the ralink 2561t
Jan 02 18:51:58 <crazy_imp> hm: Downloading http://openwrt.org/downloads/snapshots/brcm-2.4/packages/Packages
Jan 02 18:52:01 <crazy_imp> wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
Jan 02 19:07:43 <CIA-6> nico * r5969 /trunk/target/linux/x86-2.6/image/grub/Makefile: fix grub segfaults on hosts where gcc is built with stack smashing protection
Jan 02 19:09:59 <CIA-6> nico * r5970 /trunk/target/linux/x86-2.6/image/gen_image.sh: tweak grub install in x86 ext2 images
Jan 02 19:11:19 * crazy_imp isn't sure about using the rt2500 module for the rt2561t because the rt2500 is just for b/g and not for a/b/g afahk
Jan 02 19:41:18 <h3sp4wn> crazy_imp: try using rt2xx
Jan 02 19:47:22 <armijn> I talked to the rt2xx lead developer a few days ago
Jan 02 19:47:38 <armijn> he says there are no Ralink cards on the market that do a/b/g
Jan 02 19:47:41 <armijn> there are chips
Jan 02 19:47:43 <armijn> but no cards
Jan 02 22:13:10 <crazy_imp> armijn: i have a minipci card with a rt2561t on it, also printed on the board that it's a a/b/g card and finaly it was sold to be as one by a openbsd guy
Jan 02 23:09:07 <armijn> crazy_imp: really?
Jan 02 23:09:10 <armijn> crazy_imp: that's interesting
Jan 02 23:09:42 <armijn> well, rt2x00 should work
Jan 02 23:09:52 <crazy_imp> armijn: yes, bought it on the 23c3 :)
Jan 02 23:10:29 <armijn> the belgian openbsd guy sold it to you?
Jan 02 23:11:31 <crazy_imp> maybe he was belgian, he spoke german to me, think he was called vim (if its the right way to write his name/nick)
Jan 02 23:12:00 <armijn> wim
Jan 02 23:12:22 <crazy_imp> ok
Jan 02 23:12:24 <crazy_imp> :)
Jan 02 23:12:33 <armijn> http://www.kd85.com/wim.html <-- that guy?
Jan 02 23:13:25 <crazy_imp> yes
Jan 02 23:13:56 <armijn> ok
Jan 02 23:14:00 <armijn> then I know whom to bug :)
Jan 02 23:14:09 <crazy_imp> good :D
Jan 02 23:14:18 <armijn> it's just that I'd need to come up with some interesting stuff to trade with him
Jan 02 23:20:07 <crazy_imp> at the moment the card /runs/ with the rt2500 module but it only shows up in if/iwconfig and doesn't do anything like showing up the essid on air
Jan 02 23:20:50 <armijn> have you tried rt2x00?
Jan 02 23:21:05 <armijn> I know they are massively rewriting it and porting it to that new stack
Jan 02 23:21:40 <armijn> pretty sad they didn't have that much hardware to test with, so I arranged that the lead developer (also lives in .nl) got some :)
Jan 02 23:21:54 <armijn> he should also play with that a/b/g card...
Jan 02 23:22:32 <crazy_imp> ok i will give it a try but it's not included into the trunk atm (afaik). so i maybe need some help to get it building the module :)
Jan 02 23:22:55 <crazy_imp> armijn - the big hardwaresource? :D
Jan 02 23:25:03 <armijn> crazy_imp: well, yes, looks like it...
Jan 02 23:25:26 <armijn> I haven't told my mum yet I will get another 20 routers :|
Jan 02 23:26:33 <crazy_imp> :D
Jan 02 23:26:50 <armijn> let me see what model it was again
Jan 02 23:27:16 <armijn> Conceptronic C54APRA
Jan 02 23:27:18 <crazy_imp> armijn: rt2561t
Jan 02 23:27:19 <armijn> that's AR7 based
Jan 02 23:27:32 <armijn> crazy_imp: I meant the routers :)
Jan 02 23:27:45 <crazy_imp> i see :D
Jan 02 23:29:24 <armijn> and hey, why not try to get that hardware
Jan 02 23:29:37 <armijn> that model has actually been replaced by another one
Jan 02 23:30:12 <armijn> it's not like they will lose on these 20
Jan 02 23:30:36 <armijn> these were all RMA devices anyway
Jan 02 23:30:59 <armijn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_Merchandise_Authorization
Jan 02 23:32:37 <armijn> for me it's good, because I will get a better OpenWrt
Jan 02 23:32:43 <armijn> hopefully
Jan 02 23:34:04 <crazy_imp> i'm sure they will make the best of it :)
Jan 02 23:34:36 <armijn> just hoping I'm not flooding them with too much hardware, so they will spread attention
Jan 02 23:35:22 <armijn> I haven't yet mentioned the phones and IP cameras...
Jan 02 23:35:24 <armijn> whoops.
Jan 02 23:36:01 <armijn> there are quite a few interesting IP cameras on the market, with enough flash and RAM (4/16)
Jan 02 23:40:28 <crazy_imp> so i'll be able in the future to monitor my pizza with openwrt ;D
Jan 02 23:41:51 <armijn> crazy_imp: I hope so...the software that is on it right now is kind of crappy
Jan 02 23:42:06 <armijn> the thing is that most sources you get online are horribly incomplete
Jan 02 23:43:57 <crazy_imp> thats the case by many firmwares :/. btw [mbm] the small programm called "setup" isn't in the sources but still in there scripts for completing the ramdisk
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 03 02:59:58 2007