**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 30 02:59:57 2007
Jan 30 08:18:47 <CIA-6> nbd * r6229 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/ (2 files in 2 dirs): add a limit on the number of new connections per second to prevent hosts on the lan from being able to fill the conntrack table in just a few seconds
Jan 30 14:20:37 <crazy_imp> nbd: any progress?
Jan 30 14:22:11 <crazy_imp> nbd: if i'm bugging you too much, just say that you will tell me if you have something to test for me :)
Jan 30 14:30:40 <armijn> crazy_imp: you can also just follow what CIA-6 says
Jan 30 14:31:12 <crazy_imp> ? /me checks the changelogs :)
Jan 30 14:31:33 <armijn> whenever there is a commit CIA-6 will tell so here
Jan 30 14:32:22 <crazy_imp> armijn: yes, but i'm sure nbd would like some testing & feedback before the commits it
Jan 30 14:33:20 <armijn> huh?
Jan 30 14:33:21 <armijn> nah.
Jan 30 14:36:16 <nbd> crazy_imp: purely considering the protocol overhead, what do you think is more efficient - you constantly polling the status by asking again and again, or me telling you when i have something for you?
Jan 30 14:38:24 <crazy_imp> nbd: you telling me if it's done, but maybe you need me polling the status so you don't forget it again ;)
Jan 30 14:38:55 * crazy_imp promises that he don't ask nbd again about the rt2x00 module :)
Jan 30 14:39:19 <armijn> yeah, let's ask nbd about the Sitecom WL-105b instead...
Jan 30 14:40:13 <loswillios> no let's ask about the new brcm-2.6 first
Jan 30 14:40:20 <loswillios> ;-)
Jan 30 14:40:51 * thepeople_work polls about the nbd cloning machine
Jan 30 14:42:32 * nbd chooses to deal with the (hopefully final this time) 0.9 test snapshot
Jan 30 15:39:37 <CIA-6> nbd * r6230 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/toolchain/gcc/3.4.4/ (900-integer_overflow.patch 910-enable_wrapv.patch):
Jan 30 15:39:37 <CIA-6> Backport GCC changes to fix integer overflow detection and enable -fwrapv by default.
Jan 30 15:39:37 <CIA-6> See http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30477 for more information on this...
Jan 30 17:55:12 <CIA-6> mbm * r6231 /trunk/include/verbose.mk: fix colors when compiling with some newer versions of bash
Jan 30 22:27:30 <armijn> something tells me Linksys didn't get it...
Jan 30 22:27:32 <armijn> ftp://ftp.linksys.com/opensourcecode/efg250/2.5R29
Jan 30 22:27:37 <armijn> look at the size of that tarball!
Jan 30 22:27:58 <nbd> wtf?
Jan 30 22:28:09 <armijn> what I mentioned to them is that they shipped way to much
Jan 30 22:28:17 <nbd> what kind of device is that?
Jan 30 22:28:18 <armijn> so I made it clear to them that they should trim
Jan 30 22:28:21 <armijn> efg250 :S
Jan 30 22:28:33 <armijn> I told them that the toolchain was incompliant
Jan 30 22:28:44 <nbd> ah, a nas system
Jan 30 22:28:46 <armijn> but that was mainly because they also shipped binaries of rpm, php, python, etc.
Jan 30 22:28:59 <armijn> which are completely unnecessary I think...
Jan 30 22:29:05 <armijn> I mean, it was ridiculous
Jan 30 22:29:23 <armijn> but instead of trimming and removing the unnecessary part, they provided mor
Jan 30 22:29:26 <armijn> +e
Jan 30 22:29:27 <armijn> oh my.
Jan 30 22:30:23 <[mbm]> heh
Jan 30 22:30:33 <nbd> gpl spamming :)
Jan 30 22:30:58 <armijn> this is ridiculous
Jan 30 22:31:14 <[mbm]> they probably did that just to shutup those stupid gpl whiners
Jan 30 22:32:06 <armijn> oh yeah, they suck
Jan 30 22:32:07 <armijn> I hate them
Jan 30 22:32:27 <[mbm]> they always bitch about not getting the source to something
Jan 30 22:32:29 <armijn> probably they never had a girlfriend and were teased back in school
Jan 30 22:32:48 <[mbm]> the only way to shut them up completely is just to mail them the harddrive of the machine used to build the firmware
Jan 30 22:33:16 <armijn> and the machine.
Jan 30 22:33:17 <nbd> no, because then they will complain about too much data :)
Jan 30 22:33:45 <armijn> *downloading*
Jan 30 22:33:51 <[mbm]> nbd: gpl didn't say anything about too much data or being too annoying to gpl whiners
Jan 30 22:33:52 <armijn> :-P
Jan 30 22:35:29 <[mbm]> I hate stupid #openwrt questions
Jan 30 22:37:07 <[mbm]> I'm hoping that I have more stupid answers than their stupid questions
Jan 30 22:37:52 <[mbm]> sarcasm probably gets lost somewhere in translation
Jan 30 22:38:06 <armijn> if they are german, yes.
Jan 30 22:39:16 <armijn> whoops.
Jan 30 22:39:21 <armijn> did I piss off some Germans now?
Jan 30 22:42:48 <[mbm]> is installing openwrt really such a traumatic experience that they need to validate every step?
Jan 30 22:42:52 <armijn> yes
Jan 30 22:43:00 <armijn> it was scary for me the first time
Jan 30 22:43:03 <armijn> seriously
Jan 30 22:43:10 <armijn> joke-mode=off
Jan 30 22:43:28 <armijn> I mean, if you don't do the right thing, you might brick your router
Jan 30 22:43:33 <[mbm]> well, the worst that happens is you brick your router and you're out $100 or so
Jan 30 22:44:00 <armijn> which is still quite a bit of money to be honest
Jan 30 22:44:42 <armijn> I think the most trouble people have is chosing the right filesystem
Jan 30 22:44:53 <[mbm]> we don't give a choice anymore
Jan 30 22:45:06 <armijn> not even with whiterussian?
Jan 30 22:45:13 <[mbm]> only squashfs images
Jan 30 22:45:18 <armijn> ok
Jan 30 22:45:24 <[mbm]> got sick of that question
Jan 30 22:45:36 <armijn> but people asked that for a reason :)
Jan 30 22:45:51 <armijn> a good one too
Jan 30 22:46:03 <armijn> because if you're not into this stuff, it is tough
Jan 30 22:46:22 <[mbm]> because no matter how many times you explained it in careful detail and went over the pros and cons of each filesystem, at the end of your 3 hour speech it was always "... so, um, wich should I use?" as if they hadn't heard a word of it
Jan 30 22:46:59 <armijn> uh-huh
Jan 30 22:47:25 <armijn> well, there might be room for improvement there, in the documentation
Jan 30 22:47:45 <armijn> eventually
Jan 30 22:47:51 <[mbm]> documentation for openwrt is a mess
Jan 30 22:48:03 <[mbm]> everyone keeps mangling it with heresay
Jan 30 22:48:42 <armijn> it is one of my ideas to do a book
Jan 30 22:48:52 <armijn> about OpenWrt and self-publish via lulu.com
Jan 30 22:48:56 <[mbm]> there's already books being written
Jan 30 22:49:06 <armijn> oh?
Jan 30 22:49:08 <armijn> that's cool :)
Jan 30 22:49:12 <armijn> saves me the trouble
Jan 30 22:49:26 <[mbm]> actual books which you might see on bookshelves
Jan 30 22:49:42 <armijn> do you know which publisher?
Jan 30 22:50:04 <[mbm]> yes, but since it's not published yet I'm really not keen to give out details
Jan 30 22:50:17 <armijn> I understand
Jan 30 22:50:30 <[mbm]> although I can probably put you in touch with people if you want to write sections
Jan 30 22:50:49 <armijn> well, I am a freelance journalist
Jan 30 22:51:54 <armijn> whoops
Jan 30 22:51:56 <armijn> did I say that?
Jan 30 22:52:03 <[mbm]> I really don't think it matters how well the documentation covers everything and explains it
Jan 30 22:52:24 <[mbm]> people just want someone on hold who can be instantly accountable
Jan 30 22:52:39 <[mbm]> because it saves them the trouble of actually thinking
Jan 30 22:52:54 <armijn> yes...you should think about adding a virtual-nbd
Jan 30 22:53:15 <[mbm]> heh, that's what I should name the next irc bot
Jan 30 22:53:24 <armijn> virtual-nbd?
Jan 30 22:53:32 <[mbm]> or vnbd for short
Jan 30 22:53:38 <nbd> lol
Jan 30 22:53:38 <armijn> heh
Jan 30 22:54:50 <[mbm]> seriously though - how to deal with end users?
Jan 30 22:55:03 <armijn> [mbm]: don't
Jan 30 22:55:19 <armijn> you should train an army of fanboys to deal with end users
Jan 30 22:55:23 <[mbm]> umm, don't think ignoring them will make them go away
Jan 30 22:56:03 <armijn> I think there might be some ways...
Jan 30 22:56:09 <armijn> it will take some investment though
Jan 30 22:56:11 <crazy_imp> maybe something like _o_penwrt _u_ser _g_roups -> oug?
Jan 30 22:56:18 <rwhitby> heh - for nslu2-linux, we created #nslu2-general, and I just never go there :-)
Jan 30 22:56:47 <[mbm]> rwhitby: well, that's why I have several other openwrt channels
Jan 30 22:57:13 <rwhitby> [mbm]: nod
Jan 30 22:58:49 <armijn> it is a good question
Jan 30 22:59:01 <armijn> maybe it is part of growing up for the project
Jan 30 22:59:12 <armijn> good documentation would definitely help
Jan 30 22:59:25 <armijn> in a better form than a wiki, in this case
Jan 30 22:59:42 <[mbm]> we haven't yet gotten to the point that the users are skilled enough to help eachother
Jan 30 23:00:02 <[mbm]> and if left unchecked they will say the worst things possible
Jan 30 23:00:56 <armijn> myeah
Jan 30 23:01:03 <armijn> btw, nbd getting famous:
Jan 30 23:01:05 <armijn> http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37292
Jan 30 23:01:09 <[mbm]> yeah, saw
Jan 30 23:01:47 <[mbm]> http://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=41840#p41840 .. users saying the wrong thing
Jan 30 23:02:50 <armijn> yeah, you're not fixing stuff
Jan 30 23:02:51 <armijn> :S
Jan 30 23:03:41 <armijn> it is kind of sad, you're doing your best and they say you're not fixing anything
Jan 30 23:05:01 <[mbm]> I suppose I probably should jump in there, say exactly the right thing and become a hero to all the wgt634u users
Jan 30 23:06:02 <[mbm]> for once I just can't think of anything to say
Jan 30 23:06:19 <armijn> "STFU"
Jan 30 23:06:26 <armijn> that would probably cover it
Jan 30 23:06:40 <armijn> at least, emotionally
Jan 30 23:06:41 <[mbm]> would just cause more hostility
Jan 30 23:07:24 <[mbm]> hmm
Jan 30 23:07:58 <[mbm]> there. that should cover it.
Jan 30 23:08:29 <armijn> heh
Jan 30 23:11:06 <[mbm]> and mod25 is going on my ignore list
Jan 30 23:12:39 <armijn> hm
Jan 30 23:12:47 <armijn> still have to pick up that WRAP for Kaloz
Jan 30 23:12:58 <armijn> and make pictures of a device
Jan 30 23:14:02 <armijn> hm, I wish my package from netgear would arrive...
Jan 30 23:14:19 <armijn> there is some IXP stuff in there for OpenWrt...
Jan 30 23:14:27 <armijn> would like to have it before FOSDEM
Jan 30 23:14:33 <[mbm]> cool.
Jan 30 23:15:02 <rwhitby> armijn: which IXP stuff?
Jan 30 23:15:12 <armijn> rwhitby: WG302 and WAG302
Jan 30 23:15:25 <armijn> business series access points
Jan 30 23:15:30 <armijn> but I might keep one myself :-P
Jan 30 23:16:23 <rwhitby> armijn: any knowledge of the internal ram and flash, and specific ixp device?
Jan 30 23:16:52 <Kaloz> rwhitby: only one ethernet, ixp425@266
Jan 30 23:16:53 * [mbm] suddenly remembers he has a pxa stub to commit
Jan 30 23:17:14 <rwhitby> Kaloz: how much ram and flash?
Jan 30 23:17:25 <Kaloz> armijn: yeah, i bring the stuff you wanted in exchange of the wag :)
Jan 30 23:17:33 <Kaloz> rwhitby: 4/32 maybe
Jan 30 23:17:39 <Kaloz> rwhitby: don't have one, yet
Jan 30 23:18:14 <armijn>  /msg Kaloz stuff I wanted? The palinka and the hungarian beauties?
Jan 30 23:18:16 <armijn> whoops.
Jan 30 23:18:18 <Kaloz> :D
Jan 30 23:18:37 <Kaloz> the level shifter and stuff.. you get the palinka anyways :)
Jan 30 23:18:41 <rwhitby> Kaloz: thx - not interesting to me then :-)
Jan 30 23:18:47 <Kaloz> or better say both you and you brother :)
Jan 30 23:18:58 <Kaloz> your*
Jan 30 23:20:00 <crazy_imp> do we have a list with requestst for howto's? so someone can write them or put the pieces together from the forum into the wiki
Jan 30 23:21:45 <crazy_imp> or a pool of interesting questions to solve
Jan 30 23:21:53 <armijn> "why are we here?"
Jan 30 23:21:59 <armijn> "why do we exist?"
Jan 30 23:22:08 <Kaloz> to drink palinka
Jan 30 23:22:08 <Kaloz> :P
Jan 30 23:22:22 <armijn> "where is the serial port connector to my brain?"
Jan 30 23:22:36 <armijn> I think that one is pretty important
Jan 30 23:22:39 <Kaloz> heh, the stewardess will go crazy when she will see the bottles :p
Jan 30 23:22:52 <armijn> oh, bring here too
Jan 30 23:22:57 <armijn> s/here/her/
Jan 30 23:23:01 <armijn> if she's nice enough
Jan 30 23:23:19 <Kaloz> are there not enough nice ladies in brussels? :p
Jan 30 23:23:26 <armijn> of course not.
Jan 30 23:23:30 <armijn> they speak french
Jan 30 23:23:49 <armijn> weird french.
Jan 30 23:23:51 <Kaloz> well, amke sure they don't have time to speak :)
Jan 30 23:24:06 <armijn> the Dutch they talk in Belgium is often mind blowing though...
Jan 30 23:24:09 <armijn> beyond cute
Jan 30 23:24:22 <Kaloz> haha, i don't speak either, so :)
Jan 30 23:24:51 <armijn> yeah, well...I think it's cute...at least, when a female speaks it...when a male speaks it it just sounds silly
Jan 30 23:26:46 <[mbm]> crazy_imp: if you're bored we could use more tex documentation for kamikaze
Jan 30 23:30:30 <crazy_imp> [mbm]: about which parts of it?
Jan 30 23:30:35 <[mbm]> all
Jan 30 23:30:44 <crazy_imp> :D
Jan 30 23:34:32 <crazy_imp> well, i'll take a look at it later and see what i can explain and where i would need some help - is there someone who would correct my mistakes? my english isn't the best :|
Jan 30 23:36:19 <CIA-6> mbm * r6232 /trunk/target/linux/pxa-2.6/ (10 files in 2 dirs): basic pxa support; likely broken
Jan 30 23:36:56 <armijn> [mbm]: it would be nice if you could hook me up with the book people, but you don't have to, of course
Jan 30 23:37:12 <[mbm]> armijn: sure send an email to mbm@openwrt
Jan 30 23:37:22 <armijn> I would just stop giving hardware :-P
Jan 30 23:37:27 <armijn> no! I did not say that!
Jan 30 23:38:27 <armijn> [mbm]: will do, first finish more GPL mails
Jan 31 00:14:07 <armijn> why do people make gzipped tar archives of a gziped tar archive?
Jan 31 00:14:29 <armijn> that efg250 thing is a tar.gz archive of two other tar.gz files
Jan 31 00:17:59 <[mbm]> armijn: obviously when you compress something that's already compressed it becomes even more compressed :P
Jan 31 00:18:09 <armijn> ehr
Jan 31 00:18:21 * armijn steps away slowly from [mbm] 
Jan 31 00:19:37 <[mbm]> once, I got this file that was like 1 byte; inside it was another tar.gz, and inside that was another tar.gz .. there were so many levels that I had to write a script to uncompress it
Jan 31 00:20:01 <[mbm]> but it was like a gigabyte worth of stuff
Jan 31 00:20:06 <[mbm]> :)
Jan 31 00:20:40 <[mbm]> and if you think that's amazing compression you should see lzip
Jan 31 00:20:52 <[mbm]> slightly lossy but amazing compression
Jan 31 00:23:34 <[mbm]> ...
Jan 31 00:25:46 <armijn> wtf did they put into this tarball? :S
Jan 31 00:26:15 <[mbm]> um, a self referencing symlink
Jan 31 00:28:29 <armijn> I actually meant the linksys thing, but...
Jan 31 00:28:42 <armijn> I can see where I was being ambigious
Jan 31 00:29:38 <[mbm]> hmm actually what the hell did they put into that linksys tar?
Jan 31 00:29:45 <[mbm]> that's one big mess
Jan 31 00:30:29 <armijn> you downloaded it too?
Jan 31 00:30:31 <armijn> the 500 MB?
Jan 31 00:30:44 <armijn> the sad thing is that they are *still* not GPL compliant
Jan 31 00:30:49 <armijn> the sources for binutils are missing
Jan 31 00:30:55 <[mbm]> no, I looked at the size and said "I'm not downloading all that crap"
Jan 31 00:31:46 <armijn> ah yeah
Jan 31 00:31:59 <armijn> definitely
Jan 31 00:32:06 <armijn> the toolchain is in there two or three times
Jan 31 00:32:15 <[mbm]> really wouldn't be surprised if they're just using a toolchain from montavista and the engineers had no idea that they were supposed to keep the sources for the gpl release
Jan 31 00:32:35 <armijn> full build directory for gcc
Jan 31 00:32:51 <armijn> well, it is a montavista toolchain
Jan 31 00:33:41 <[mbm]> maybe at this point their source tree is so much of a mess they're hoping the gpl zelots will clean it up and produce a set of patches for them
Jan 31 00:34:11 <armijn> nah
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 31 02:59:59 2007