**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 03:01:14 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 06:57:07 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 07:11:04 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 07:23:58 2020 Jul 01 07:37:40 blogic: neat. to help in adding support? Jul 01 07:38:28 we just bought a house and i'll need to wire it up. so gotta look for networking gear as well :D **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 07:44:26 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 07:46:25 2020 Jul 01 07:47:25 Thinking of wiring up the whole flat in cat.6… **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 07:50:43 2020 Jul 01 07:50:56 Borromini, rsalvaterra, had the same issue a few years back, ended up running fiber all over the flat Jul 01 07:52:33 Nah, not going for fiber yet… the switches are still expensive and you can't bend fiber the same way as copper… Jul 01 07:52:57 Besides, all my machines are still GbE. Jul 01 07:53:04 fiber is much more resilient than you'd think Jul 01 07:54:34 * nitroshift agrees with Redfoxmoon Jul 01 07:55:14 Anyway, cat.6 should be Good Enough™ for 10 GbE at very short distances. Jul 01 07:56:28 I was quite surprised how rougly the ftth technicians treated the fibre and the rather sharp bends Jul 01 07:58:32 slh64: indeed. I had FTTH installed in another flat, and watched the whole thing like a horror movie. Jul 01 08:06:19 It does become brittle after ~30 years Jul 01 08:06:30 at which point you have to be careful with them Jul 01 08:09:46 rsalvaterra: cat6 is fine for 10GE up to 30-55 meters or so. So it's not even "short distances" Jul 01 08:09:59 fiber is not that sensitive, less sensitive than most people think Jul 01 08:11:00 SwedeMike: yeah, I'm not expecting to have connections longer than 15 m. ;) Jul 01 08:11:03 the sensitive part is the exposed connector, than can easily be scratched. However the fiber itself isn't too sensitive Jul 01 08:11:34 rsalvaterra: I did the same thing in 2014 when I wired up my home, I went CAT6 because CAT6A is so stiff and hard to work with Jul 01 08:14:26 I wired up this flat where I'm living in around 2003, when all my stuff was 100BaseT at best, and at the time I used cat.5 (not even cat.5e). **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 08:20:48 2020 Jul 01 08:20:51 wouldn't surprise me if 10GE worked as well Jul 01 08:20:59 at 6 meters Jul 01 08:21:39 Yeah, it's not like I'm exactly worried about 10 GbE over cat.6 in a flat. ;) Jul 01 08:23:45 So, while fiber would be great, it's just too expensive, at the moment. Jul 01 08:30:54 Guys, honest question (even if it sounds stupid)… how do we get objective and comparable performance numbers in OpenWrt, even if synthetic? Jul 01 08:32:05 I want to compare ARM vs Thumb-2 on mvebu. Jul 01 09:06:44 Redfoxmoon: SwedeMike: if one would run fiber, would that mean just the backbone? ie between switches and modem/router but the last few meters to the regular cat6? Jul 01 09:07:38 well to endpoints likely copper yeah Jul 01 09:07:48 unless your device has fiber connectivity Jul 01 09:07:49 at this point gigabit is enough for me, and my internet plan is 100/40 Mbps, so... but if we switch to AX at some point gigabit will become a bottleneck probably. Jul 01 09:08:20 Redfoxmoon: ok, thanks. Jul 01 09:14:24 Borromini: my thoughts exactly. I use my home network mainly for internet connectivity. I have a LibreELEC media player connecting to an NFS server, but even GbE is overkill for this use case. Jul 01 09:15:50 Borromini: I would have wanted a fiber between the place where I have my wiring closet and my work room. Jul 01 09:16:05 Borromini: would've been easier/cheaper to get 10GE between switches then Jul 01 09:21:09 SwedeMike: ok :) Jul 01 09:21:26 rsalvaterra: i might consider 2,5 Gbps, but we'll have to see Jul 01 09:21:50 i see us living in that place for 25 years if not more, so it makes sense to future proof it a bit. Jul 01 09:22:35 running 10GE over copper requires a lot more power compared to over fiber Jul 01 09:24:25 too bad you can't PoE over fiber :) Jul 01 09:24:34 SwedeMike: and fiber requires powered transceivers at every endpoint, if your machines don't have fiber cards. ;) Jul 01 09:26:20 yep, but if one has switches that are powered locally anyway, fiber is nice. Jul 01 09:26:54 I'd like to see 2.5GbE become a lot more common. It's a nice compromise between cost, power and speed Jul 01 09:27:56 SwedeMike: totally agree. But this new standard is for 2.5 and 5 GbE, right? Jul 01 09:28:22 yes. Jul 01 09:28:55 5 GbE would probably be the sweet spot, for me. Jul 01 09:29:07 my 10GbE switch supports 1, 2.5, 5 and 10 Jul 01 09:29:19 "multi-gigabit" is the marketing name I believe Jul 01 09:30:51 NBASE-T is also used Jul 01 09:31:39 it's quite nice actually, even on the crappy cabling in my building it linked on 5Gbps Jul 01 09:31:55 https://www.netgear.com/landings/multi-gig/ MS510TXPP is an interesting device, it has 4x1GE, 2x2.5GE, 2x5GE and 2x10GE Jul 01 09:31:56 Multi-gigabit switches tend to be a bit crazy. For example: https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/MS510TX.aspx#tab-techspecs Jul 01 09:31:56 and I just bought some better quality wall sockets and now it does at 10Gbps Jul 01 09:32:42 SwedeMike: yes! :D Jul 01 09:33:00 does netgear have a cli-based config nowadays? I have a GS510TP and the web interface is horrible Jul 01 09:33:07 but I've been traditionally drawn towards fanless and it'd be nice to get 2.5GbE fanless devices Jul 01 09:33:10 But I'd rather have 8 x 5 GbE ports. Jul 01 09:34:10 Yes, being fanless is also a hard requirement for me. Jul 01 09:34:21 10g copper get hot Jul 01 09:35:30 merbanan: even small ones, with 8 ports? Jul 01 09:36:34 I have a GS810EMX the complete hardware is a heat sink Jul 01 09:36:42 8+2 device Jul 01 09:37:21 it's like the Huawei AP7060DN (8x8 802.11ax with 10GbE PoE++ uplink), the rear part of the case is just a heatsink Jul 01 09:37:37 I think heat will limit the amount of posts available of copper switches Jul 01 09:37:55 merbanan: does it get ouch-level hot? Or can you still touch it while operating? Jul 01 09:38:49 rsalvaterra: for your perf question, I'd look at thingslike iperf, have a look perhaps at someof themetrics thecerowrt projectwas using Jul 01 09:38:55 maybe 40C with one 10g copper port and 1 gig post active Jul 01 09:39:28 https://download-hk.huawei.com/mdl/imgDownload?uuid=7d06e56cb9664acc9c017defc8d9d220.png **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 12:39:29 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 01 12:42:18 2020 Jul 01 13:08:19 rsalvaterra: i'm at 100 now but i suppose that will be scaling up in the years to come. Jul 01 13:08:29 ldir: yeah, i was afraid so. Jul 01 13:08:51 i thought gl.inet had an arm router in their range no? with 3 ports total or sth. Jul 01 13:09:10 since i'd be installing switches and whatnot that wouldn't be too much of an issue. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 02 00:16:15 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 02 01:01:13 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 02 01:19:15 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 02 02:01:34 2020 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 02 02:48:55 2020 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 02 02:59:57 2020