**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 15 02:59:56 2008
Feb 15 05:35:44 <goxboxlive> ljp there?
Feb 15 07:16:40 <ljp> goxboxlive: yes
Feb 15 07:18:57 <goxboxlive> ljp: is 4.3.2 snapshot on it's way, or will there not be any 4.3.2?
Feb 15 08:06:33 <ljp> should have switched over
Feb 15 08:13:20 <Baggy2> Inside KeyPressEvent, the following did not work "if(event->key() == (Qt::Key_Return|Qt::Key_Alt))".. I cannot find ALT-ENTER in the list of standard keysequence events.. Why? and how should I do this?
Feb 15 08:18:05 <Baggy2> Qt.WA_KeyCompression?
Feb 15 09:12:11 <crweb> what needs to be present on the linux system for qtopia-core font sharing to occur?
Feb 15 09:12:27 <crweb> I'm seeing errors in strace for /var/shm not found, is this needed for font sharing?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 15 09:58:04 2008
Feb 15 09:58:28 <izico> Hi,the sqlite3 on Qtopia greenphone is very slow on update
Feb 15 09:58:50 <izico> it's nearly 1.3 second to update a field
Feb 15 09:59:22 <izico> and it's between 0.6 to 1.5 second on my greenphone
Feb 15 09:59:46 <izico> the time consumed is nearly the same no matter how many fields I update
Feb 15 10:00:51 <izico> it seems that one transaction of a SQLIte keeps around the same time
Feb 15 10:01:29 <izico> Insert 100 records is just 2 or 3 times longer than insert 10 records in one transaction
Feb 15 10:10:57 <izico> Anybody know why SQLite on greenphone is so slow in write action?
Feb 15 10:11:37 <izico> it's unbearable to insert or update any one item in more than 1 second
Feb 15 10:12:05 <izico> the GUI looks like freezed sporadically
Feb 15 10:15:52 <izico> writing flat-file on greenphone is fast
Feb 15 10:16:12 <izico> so it's definetely not problem on the speed of flash 
Feb 15 10:16:30 <izico> it's definetely the problem on sqlite3 itself
Feb 15 10:16:42 <izico> but the sqlite3 on my desktop runs very fast
Feb 15 10:17:04 <izico> so it's the problem of the sqlite3 bundled in greenphone
Feb 15 10:17:40 <izico> and I've tested it by the sqlite command line
Feb 15 10:18:11 <izico> it's confirms that the sqlite3 bundled in greenphone is too slow in write operation
Feb 15 10:19:07 <izico> maybe I should try to compile a sqlite myself to test on greenphone
Feb 15 10:19:21 <izico> yes,I'll try now
Feb 15 11:29:22 <izico> my compiled sqlite is still that slow
Feb 15 11:30:01 <izico> how can I improve the write performance of sqlite3 on greenphone?
Feb 15 12:07:22 <izico> nobody uses sqlite on greenphone?
Feb 15 12:07:46 <izico> I just want to know how long will a update/insert on your system
Feb 15 12:08:04 <izico> I think the performance on my greenphone is abnormal
Feb 15 12:08:31 <izico> more than 1 second for a insert/update is unthinkable
Feb 15 12:08:33 <rohanpm> Qtopia uses sqlite on greenphone
Feb 15 12:08:56 <izico> rohanpm:of course,I use it too
Feb 15 12:09:12 <rohanpm> then of course it's not true that nobody uses sqlite on greenphone :-)
Feb 15 12:09:16 <izico> but the update/insert is unexceptionally slow
Feb 15 12:09:20 <rohanpm> > 1 second for an insert/update indeed sounds abnormal
Feb 15 12:09:53 <izico> but I have compiled the sqlite from its website
Feb 15 12:09:56 <izico> it's still that long
Feb 15 12:10:11 <izico> but the flat-file write is fast
Feb 15 12:10:22 <izico> 0.1 second for 1M file copy
Feb 15 12:11:08 <izico> rohanpm: how long will a update/insert takes on your phone
Feb 15 12:11:26 <rohanpm> izico: don't know, do you have an easy way to test?
Feb 15 12:11:57 <izico> I have profiles every update/insert of my application
Feb 15 12:12:14 <izico> and I tested the update/insert by sqlite command line
Feb 15 12:12:26 <izico> it's really that slow on sqlite command too
Feb 15 12:12:50 <izico> and I compiled sqlite from the source downloaed from www.sqlite.org
Feb 15 12:12:55 <izico> it's still that slow
Feb 15 12:13:15 <izico> the select works as expected
Feb 15 12:13:27 <izico> about several 10ms
Feb 15 12:14:12 <izico> and the time of update/insert is linear to the field count or row count
Feb 15 12:15:00 <izico> insert/update 100 records of every 13 fields consumes just several times more time than update/insert 1 record of 1 field.
Feb 15 12:15:39 <rohanpm> how many records does your table with ~1 second insert times have?
Feb 15 12:15:45 <izico> it seems that the time is most consumed in the transaction processing but the update/insert
Feb 15 12:16:17 <izico> 600 records with 13 fields
Feb 15 12:16:49 <rohanpm> it takes 0.73 seconds here to start sqlite, insert a single row into an empty table, and exit sqlite
Feb 15 12:17:05 <izico> that's nearly the same
Feb 15 12:17:08 <rohanpm> 1 second seems fairly reasonable for a table of that size actually
Feb 15 12:17:20 <izico> the time varies from 0.6 to 1.5 seconds on my system.
Feb 15 12:17:23 <rohanpm> it's not really nearly the same, because the time to start the sqlite program is significant
Feb 15 12:18:17 <izico> let me try the command overhead now
Feb 15 12:19:39 <izico> hi,rohanpm:
Feb 15 12:19:56 <izico> the command overhead is negligable
Feb 15 12:20:08 <rohanpm> try putting the database file on tmpfs, like /var
Feb 15 12:20:24 <rohanpm> `strace -c' shows that the biggest time wasters are open() and fsync()
Feb 15 12:20:44 <izico> I've tried :inmemory:
Feb 15 12:20:47 <izico> that's fast
Feb 15 12:21:16 <izico> I guess tmpfs is the same as :inmemory: in performance
Feb 15 12:21:16 <rohanpm> what's :inmemory: ?  an sqlite option?
Feb 15 12:21:31 <rohanpm> is there one to disable the journal?
Feb 15 12:21:34 <izico> In memory database
Feb 15 12:21:57 <izico> database in ram disk
Feb 15 12:22:02 <izico> just like tmpfs
Feb 15 12:22:04 <rohanpm> yeah, I get what it means :-)
Feb 15 12:22:20 <izico> no that option in pragma
Feb 15 12:22:26 <rohanpm> ok
Feb 15 12:22:39 <izico> ok,at least I know this is not my problem
Feb 15 12:22:39 <rohanpm> is there a pragma to turn off journaling perhaps?
Feb 15 12:22:50 <izico> it's a general problem
Feb 15 12:23:02 <izico> no pragma to turn off journal
Feb 15 12:23:21 <izico> I began to profile my program from yesterday
Feb 15 12:23:31 <izico> and I've profiled it from 1 day by now
Feb 15 12:24:06 <izico> the only bottleneck in my appilcation now is this sqlite update/insert problem
Feb 15 12:24:29 <izico> 1 sec update/insert will freeze the UI 
Feb 15 12:24:29 <rohanpm> you can move it to a separate thread to avoid freezing the UI
Feb 15 12:25:11 <rohanpm> the greenphone disk is really really slow and I believe there is no way around it
Feb 15 12:26:02 <izico> separate threads will have separate event loop?
Feb 15 12:26:41 <izico> but I have tested the flat file write
Feb 15 12:27:01 <izico> cp a 1M file is only 0.1 to 0.2 second
Feb 15 12:27:36 <rohanpm> that doesn't sync though
Feb 15 12:27:52 <rohanpm> try a cp followed by a sync immediately
Feb 15 12:27:57 <izico> let's test the sync now
Feb 15 12:28:03 <rohanpm> yes, each thread can have its own event loop
Feb 15 12:28:29 <rohanpm> you don't necessarily need an event loop in the second thread though
Feb 15 12:29:25 <izico> yes,you are right
Feb 15 12:29:58 <izico> it's 3 second to sync 1M cp
Feb 15 12:30:12 <izico> 300k/sec
Feb 15 12:30:22 <izico> really bad
Feb 15 12:30:51 <izico> ok,I'll take your advice
Feb 15 12:32:51 <izico> maybe it's just a problem of greenphone
Feb 15 12:32:57 <izico> how about openmoko?
Feb 15 12:33:03 <izico> qtopia runs on it now
Feb 15 12:34:39 <rohanpm> the neo ought to have faster IO
Feb 15 12:34:47 <rohanpm> I haven't tested that though
Feb 15 12:35:24 <rohanpm> applications start up faster on the neo though
Feb 15 12:36:20 <izico> thanks for your information
Feb 15 12:36:59 <izico> I've just written a RSS reader for Qt/Qtopia
Feb 15 12:37:17 <izico> and after I sold that program,I'll buy a new Qtopia phone
Feb 15 12:37:23 <izico> or a Android phone later
Feb 15 12:38:15 <izico> my RSS reader is consumes few resouce and very memory efficient
Feb 15 12:38:34 <izico> the only bottleneck is this update/insert problem
Feb 15 12:39:47 <izico> I'll release my RSS reader online next week
Feb 15 12:39:58 <izico> hope you will enjoy it too
Feb 15 12:40:28 <rohanpm> i thought you were selling it?
Feb 15 12:40:46 <izico> yes,I want to earn some money by my work
Feb 15 12:41:01 <izico> there's no free mobile RSS reader now
Feb 15 12:41:09 <rohanpm> i never enjoy software I have to pay for :-)
Feb 15 12:41:24 <izico> sorry,rohan
Feb 15 12:41:37 <izico> but I'll send a private copy to you
Feb 15 12:41:46 <izico> you have helped me
Feb 15 12:41:52 <rohanpm> ok then
Feb 15 12:42:04 <izico> you can give me your address
Feb 15 12:42:14 <izico> I'll send to you next week
Feb 15 12:42:25 <izico> and I will send it to Trolltech too
Feb 15 12:42:39 <rohanpm> in what way you will send it to Trolltech?
Feb 15 12:42:55 <izico> some guys in trolltech is interested in a mobile RSS reader
Feb 15 12:43:20 <izico> do you know the greenphone grant program?
Feb 15 12:43:54 <rohanpm> yes
Feb 15 12:44:08 <izico> there's no any result by now
Feb 15 12:44:24 <izico> Android has 10M bonus
Feb 15 12:44:57 <izico> I'll take the second Android contest after I see the real Andriod phone
Feb 15 12:45:40 <izico> There's no any bonus in the greenphone grant program?
Feb 15 12:46:15 <rohanpm> I don't know much about the grant program
Feb 15 12:46:44 <izico> what kind of program do you write?rohan?
Feb 15 12:47:04 <rohanpm> I also work for Trolltech :-)
Feb 15 12:47:09 <izico> oh
Feb 15 12:47:34 <izico> you trolls are great at programming,
Feb 15 12:47:39 <izico> but bad at business
Feb 15 12:47:46 <izico> but I'm bad at business too
Feb 15 12:48:08 <izico> you write great program but lose money
Feb 15 12:48:13 <bhughes> i think we're pretty good at business :)
Feb 15 12:48:41 <izico> MySQL is sold in 1 billion
Feb 15 12:48:58 <izico> but troll is only 100M
Feb 15 12:49:21 <izico> though I think Qt/Qtopia is way way better than MySQL
Feb 15 12:49:39 <rohanpm> yeah, "only" 100M... not even enough for every troll to have a huge mansion
Feb 15 12:49:40 <izico> you are great nerd but businessman
Feb 15 12:49:52 <izico> yes
Feb 15 12:50:28 <izico> it's not a good acquisition for any employee
Feb 15 12:50:37 <izico> no one earn money in it
Feb 15 12:50:59 <izico> Yahoo is offered by MS at 40b
Feb 15 12:51:18 <izico> though I think TT write better program than Yahoo
Feb 15 12:51:38 <izico> nerds only can not earn money now
Feb 15 12:51:59 <izico> the businessman control the world now
Feb 15 12:52:25 <rohanpm> if you don't care about money then the businessman does not control you
Feb 15 12:52:44 <izico> no,I must eat and live
Feb 15 12:53:04 <izico> so I must be controlled by businessman if I'm not good at business
Feb 15 12:53:16 <izico> I'm learning to do business myself now
Feb 15 12:53:25 <rohanpm> i'm sorry to hear that
Feb 15 12:53:41 <izico> this is the first time that I write a program for myself and market it myself now
Feb 15 12:53:57 <izico> I write program for internal use in the past
Feb 15 12:54:40 <izico> I want to be free,but I may not be gifted and clever enough to be free
Feb 15 12:55:07 <izico> freedom is a forever dream for me
Feb 15 12:55:26 <izico> ok,rohan
Feb 15 12:55:33 <izico> what's your mail?
Feb 15 12:55:55 <izico> I'll send to your next week when I send to some other guys in your company too
Feb 15 12:56:17 <rohanpm> rmcgover@trolltech.com
Feb 15 12:56:18 <izico> tt is full of nice nerds
Feb 15 12:57:41 <izico> ok,rohan,see you 
Feb 15 12:57:52 <rohanpm> goodnight
Feb 15 12:58:03 <izico> you trolls are nice guys/girls
Feb 15 12:58:20 <izico> I'd like to chat with you
Feb 15 12:58:50 <rohanpm> :-)
Feb 15 14:35:18 <chouimat|work> morning
Feb 15 17:04:54 <mndar> hello good people.
Feb 15 17:07:28 <mndar> Opie is based on Qtopia. Opie is an open source project. So, does this mean that I can develop commercial applications based on Opie without having a Qtopia commercial license?
Feb 15 17:22:17 <Sput> mndar: what's Opie's license?
Feb 15 17:24:25 <Sput> mndar: I'm quite sure that Opie is GPL'ed (as are Qtopia and Qt), so you'd have to adhere to the GPL
Feb 15 17:29:15 <mndar> I thought so too...just wanted a confirmation 
Feb 15 17:33:22 <mndar> say I write a wrapper around Opie or Qtopia and release it under LGPL
Feb 15 17:33:32 <mndar> now can I develop commercial applications using this wrapper ?
Feb 15 18:32:04 <Sput> mndar: ask your lawyer, but in general you are not allowed to use Qt under the GPL if you are developing commercial applications with it
Feb 15 18:32:20 <Sput> mndar: that does not go away by wrapping stuff around it
Feb 15 18:32:24 <Sput> plus, LGPL != GPL
Feb 15 18:37:54 <mndar> ok..so something as simple as wrapping might not do it...
Feb 15 18:38:51 <mndar> can u develop commercial applications based on KDE libs ? 
Feb 15 18:42:22 <Sput> mndar: no
Feb 15 18:43:04 <Sput> mndar: and you probably won't find a legal or morally acceptable way to (ab)use other peoples' work done for the community without giving back either money or code.
Feb 15 18:43:35 <mndar> i thought KDE libs were LGLed
Feb 15 18:43:50 <Sput> where commercial == closed source with restrictive licenses, nobody stops you from selling opensource software of course.
Feb 15 18:44:20 <Sput> you'd still need Qt for that.
Feb 15 18:44:56 <Sput> you can't write a KDE app without using Qt.
Feb 15 18:45:12 <mndar> my app won't be using Qt directly...
Feb 15 18:45:59 <Sput> ask your lawyer, or maybe in #qt
Feb 15 18:46:05 <Sput> doubt they will tell you something different though.
Feb 15 18:46:08 <Sput> anyway, off
Feb 15 18:48:56 <mndar> k
Feb 15 19:03:52 <ljp> heh
Feb 15 19:09:29 <tsdogs> ljp: I have a problem showing a dialog :(
Feb 15 19:09:56 <tsdogs> when it pops up it's small, then if I select a combo it goes full screen (?)
Feb 15 19:51:45 <neuschi> Hi ljp, its me again ;-) Any news about the grennphone 4.3.1 sdk?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 16 02:59:57 2008