**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 24 02:59:56 2008
Jul 24 08:21:53 <BabelO_> hi
Jul 24 08:26:51 <lpotter> hi
Jul 24 08:27:24 <ljp> hi
Jul 24 08:45:43 <BabelO_> lol double potter today ?
Jul 24 09:41:38 <lpotter> :)
Jul 24 09:46:18 <Morge> lpotter: I guess you guys are aware that the "save to contacts" not always works? I just saw the bug while trying to save to contacts from my sent items box.
Jul 24 09:46:43 <lpotter> can you reproduce it?
Jul 24 09:50:41 <Morge> I think so. Send an sms to a number that is not in your contacts. Then go to the sent items box, open the message you just sent, and choose add to contacts.
Jul 24 09:50:45 <Morge> nothing happens.
Jul 24 09:54:10 <Morge> Just made a dummy message to 9995 (not an actual number in norway), opened it from the outbox and chose "Save to Contacts". Nothing happens. BTW, it seems as if that message failed to be sent. Should there be a warning or error message or something?
Jul 24 10:08:13 <Morge> lpotter: So, can you reproduce it?
Jul 24 10:48:55 <lpotter> i think it keeps trying to end it
Jul 24 10:56:39 <cbmuser> lpotter: hey, do you know where to put additional dictionaries on the Greenphone ? according to the Greenphone-wiki I must put them in the /opt/Qtopia/etc/dict-directory, but thats under / and thats read-only
Jul 24 10:56:47 <cbmuser> can I also put them at /etc/dict ?
Jul 24 10:57:09 <lpotter> hmmm
Jul 24 10:57:30 <lpotter> need to be in /opt/Qtopia 
Jul 24 10:58:12 <cbmuser> can I remount that rw ?
Jul 24 11:07:51 <lpotter> its cramfs, so its read only
Jul 24 11:10:53 <cbmuser> ok, as I expected
Jul 24 11:11:17 <cbmuser> so, the only way putting new dicts into the system is by building a custom cramfs-Image ?
Jul 24 11:20:09 <lpotter> ya ;(
Jul 24 11:20:30 <lpotter> we really should have used jffs2
Jul 24 11:26:44 <cbmuser> hehe, can change that in the future :)
Jul 24 11:27:17 <cbmuser> once I'm more into the SDK, I'll try things like that, I'm quite good with kernel-stuff
Jul 24 11:45:08 <lpotter> kernel is old, and we are stuck with that version.
Jul 24 11:45:22 <lpotter> the mDoc is the problem.
Jul 24 11:46:06 <lpotter> a new kernel would be superb. :)
Jul 24 13:49:38 <cbmuser> lpotter: do you know what patches are necessary against (2.4-) vanilla-kernel to make it run on QTopia-Plattform ?
Jul 24 13:49:50 <cbmuser> is just drivers or more ?
Jul 24 14:24:49 <leinir> ljp, lpotter: An progress on that funkiness with no screen dimming? :)
Jul 24 18:53:38 <rx_shorty> Hello
Jul 24 19:15:04 <rx_shorty> Anybody here?
Jul 24 19:20:21 <cbmuser> I think there is something wrong with the battery-charge-status display when using Qtopia 4.3.2 on the Greenphone
Jul 24 19:20:24 <cbmuser> it
Jul 24 19:20:37 <cbmuser> 's been charging for like 7 hours now
Jul 24 19:41:43 <lpotter> you need to flash the bootloader. and its a windows only app that can flash the bootloader ;(
Jul 24 19:47:48 <lpotter> dont overcharge it, as the battery can swell, and possibly burst
Jul 24 19:48:02 <lpotter> *sigh*
Jul 24 20:09:13 <RXShorty> Hello people
Jul 24 20:09:31 <RXShorty> Can anybody help me with the Freerunner and Wifi?
Jul 24 20:13:32 <lpotter> can try
Jul 24 20:13:44 <lpotter> wpa is broken in openmoko i believe
Jul 24 20:14:45 <RXShorty> That isn't a problem, I am aware of that. Using WEP right now :P
Jul 24 20:14:49 <leinir> There's something on the topic on the openmoko wiki...
Jul 24 20:14:54 <leinir> wep != wpa
Jul 24 20:15:21 <RXShorty> hmm
Jul 24 20:15:26 <RXShorty> it just 128 bit hex code
Jul 24 20:15:50 <RXShorty> And how about GPRS... is that working correctly?
Jul 24 20:17:17 <lpotter> wep should be working
Jul 24 20:17:27 <lpotter> havent test gprs yet
Jul 24 20:17:31 <RXShorty> ah ok
Jul 24 20:17:33 <RXShorty> Thanks
Jul 24 20:17:45 <RXShorty> but the qtopia way is the same as openmoko os way?
Jul 24 20:19:16 <lpotter> qtopia gui will run the script /opt/Qtopia/bin/ppp-network
Jul 24 20:19:36 <lpotter> i need to set it up for the correct busybox script though
Jul 24 20:19:52 <RXShorty> hmm ok
Jul 24 20:20:12 <lpotter> but i tmight work
Jul 24 20:20:20 <lpotter> might also need some fiddling
Jul 24 20:20:21 <RXShorty> Question? Do you like the Freerunner so far?
Jul 24 20:20:45 <RXShorty> Ok
Jul 24 20:26:17 <lpotter> depends on what you mean by like :)
Jul 24 20:26:43 <lpotter> I do like it. I think the hardware/drivers/system is buggy, so it is a bit annoying trying to develop qtopia for it
Jul 24 20:27:05 <lpotter> but there are always those things on every device you just have to work around
Jul 24 20:28:05 <leinir> What other hardware bugs are there past that sd clock thing? :)
Jul 24 20:29:45 <lpotter> hard to say whats hardware and what drvier issue
Jul 24 20:29:52 <lpotter> driver
Jul 24 20:30:17 <lpotter> the lack of good resume is especially anoying and should be a p1 bug
Jul 24 20:30:42 <leinir> *nods* Yeah, that one's kinda meh
Jul 24 20:31:49 <lpotter> but it seems no one is really trying to fix it
Jul 24 20:37:27 <RXShorty> hello lpotter
Jul 24 20:37:28 <RXShorty> question
Jul 24 20:37:34 <RXShorty> now connected to the wireless he sais
Jul 24 20:37:39 <RXShorty> but how to test if it goes to internet
Jul 24 20:37:44 <RXShorty> I don't have a browser installed
Jul 24 20:37:57 <RXShorty> if I want to install something it nees a server. Do you have adress for Qtopia?
Jul 24 20:39:01 <lpotter> yes
Jul 24 20:39:14 <lpotter> but not all packages are working just yet
Jul 24 20:39:17 <RXShorty> Could you please give it to me
Jul 24 20:39:27 <RXShorty> Ok that's not a problem
Jul 24 20:39:53 <RXShorty> I really glad you working on this. I asked Trolltech if I could translate it... so trying to help out also for a while
Jul 24 20:39:59 <lpotter> qtopia.net/packages/feed/4.3.2/
Jul 24 20:40:09 <lpotter> what language?
Jul 24 20:40:09 <RXShorty> Thanks
Jul 24 20:40:12 <RXShorty> Dutch
Jul 24 20:40:32 <lpotter> how did you enuire about that?
Jul 24 20:40:36 <lpotter> enquire
Jul 24 20:41:05 <RXShorty> through trolltech e-mail
Jul 24 20:41:08 <RXShorty> contact form
Jul 24 20:41:35 <lpotter> ok. 
Jul 24 20:41:51 <lpotter> I will ask the languages guy about it
Jul 24 20:42:10 <lpotter> it is quite a task to translate. there are more than 3000 strings :)
Jul 24 20:42:17 <RXShorty> I had a respond already
Jul 24 20:42:26 <lpotter> ahh ok.
Jul 24 20:42:26 <RXShorty> but there was nobody availabel or so
Jul 24 20:42:35 <lpotter> heh
Jul 24 20:42:46 <RXShorty> I know it is a lot
Jul 24 20:42:49 <lpotter> well, my teamlead is the language guy :)
Jul 24 20:42:59 <RXShorty> but that is the least I can do 
Jul 24 20:42:59 <RXShorty> As I am not that of a programmer
Jul 24 20:43:19 <lpotter> do you know how to use linguist?
Jul 24 20:43:55 <RXShorty> Nah... sorry
Jul 24 20:44:38 <lpotter> probably the easiest way to get strings to tr
Jul 24 20:44:39 <RXShorty> but always willing to learn ;-)
Jul 24 20:45:02 <lpotter> there should be good docs on it
Jul 24 20:45:15 <leinir> Damn... Can't play cutemaze ;)
Jul 24 20:45:35 <RXShorty> hahaha
Jul 24 20:45:58 <leinir> Crap... can't quit it either, not so good ;)
Jul 24 20:46:54 <RXShorty> hehe speak ya soon then, i will wait
Jul 24 20:47:38 <leinir> Well, restarting qtopia does the trick *giggles* :)
Jul 24 20:47:48 <leinir> a touch overkillish of course ;)
Jul 24 20:48:22 <RXShorty> hehe offcourse
Jul 24 20:48:26 <RXShorty> ahh well can't have it all
Jul 24 20:50:44 <leinir> The scribble app is surprisingly good, though :)
Jul 24 20:51:00 <leinir> Could do with a bit of further work, but mostly it looks good :)
Jul 24 20:52:49 <RXShorty> hehe ok
Jul 24 20:52:58 <RXShorty> So the server adress should be http://qtopia.net/packages/feed/4.3.2/
Jul 24 20:53:00 <lpotter> thats an example from qt :)
Jul 24 20:53:04 <lpotter> yes
Jul 24 20:53:23 <lpotter> i need to make that default for neo
Jul 24 20:53:49 <RXShorty> hmm
Jul 24 20:53:54 <RXShorty> my wireless sais online
Jul 24 20:53:57 <lpotter> i need to make that default for neo, at maybe a sub dir
Jul 24 20:54:00 <RXShorty> but it gives a download error
Jul 24 20:54:08 <RXShorty> make sub dir ;-)
Jul 24 21:03:13 <leinir> Yeah... i'd say sub-dir... So you can remove stuff that doesn't work on it, like e.g. cutemaze :)
Jul 24 21:03:32 <RXShorty> yups!
Jul 24 21:03:36 <RXShorty> you make one stable
Jul 24 21:03:37 <RXShorty> one testing
Jul 24 21:05:35 <lpotter> not that many apps out there to put in it
Jul 24 21:06:16 <RXShorty> nah true
Jul 24 21:06:21 <RXShorty> but then agan
Jul 24 21:07:38 <RXShorty> man my qtopio keeps crashing when I try to delete wireless profile
Jul 24 21:09:55 <leinir> lpotter: There *is* a good argument for putting the broken ones in for now... otherwise they won't get noticed and potentially fixed ;)
Jul 24 21:24:58 <RXShorty> lpotter
Jul 24 21:25:08 <RXShorty> in the logging it sais no version information available
Jul 24 21:25:18 <RXShorty> that is why the connection with package server failes I think
Jul 24 21:26:37 <lpotter> thats just a warning 
Jul 24 21:26:44 <leinir> lpotter: There's a slightly odd thing going on it seems with that power management thing
Jul 24 21:27:10 <RXShorty> ok strange
Jul 24 21:27:12 <RXShorty> so he sees it
Jul 24 21:27:16 <RXShorty> but it doesnt download
Jul 24 21:28:02 <leinir> i've found out that by restarting qtopia after the device is turned on, it fails to recognise the charger entirely - the battery indicator doesn't show that it's charging and the power management seems to work
Jul 24 21:28:34 <lpotter> ya. thats a known issue
Jul 24 21:28:54 <lpotter> apm is broken on the system, so I had to jerry-rig the battery status
Jul 24 21:28:59 <leinir> Ah, right :)
Jul 24 21:29:22 <RXShorty> lpotter i set my wireless WLAN through the wizard and it seems to work
Jul 24 21:29:26 <RXShorty> sorry for al the questions
Jul 24 21:29:40 <RXShorty> but it gives the error connecting to server
Jul 24 21:29:43 <RXShorty> check url... etc
Jul 24 21:45:31 <RXShorty> lpotter thanks for all the info so far
Jul 24 21:45:37 <RXShorty> I am off to bed :P
Jul 24 21:45:44 <RXShorty> Speak ya latur! 
Jul 24 21:55:03 <lpotter> check the route and make sure there is not two default gateways set.
Jul 24 22:37:15 <lpotter> hmm resolve.conf isnt getting updated :(
Jul 24 23:20:07 <chillywilly> hola
Jul 24 23:28:42 <chillywilly> lpotter: is it safe to add the packages repo?
Jul 24 23:29:15 <chillywilly> then I can work on fixing my openwrt router and testing wifi...oh wait I have to check on something at work first...bleh ;P
Jul 24 23:31:00 <chillywilly> I wish I could run citrix on qtopia
Jul 24 23:32:02 <chillywilly> then I can get a terminal server session on my phone for remote access at work
Jul 24 23:32:17 <chillywilly> did I mention that I hate citrix?
Jul 24 23:32:36 <lpotter> chillywilly: well, its a testing feed. some of the packages do not run, or work
Jul 24 23:32:47 <chillywilly> hmmm, if I could run X on my phone I could forward a desktop session from my home machine and use citrix from there
Jul 24 23:33:01 <chillywilly> or some type of RDP stuff
Jul 24 23:33:06 <chillywilly> perhaps VNC/
Jul 24 23:33:07 <chillywilly> ?
Jul 24 23:33:26 <lpotter> someone could port xqt from qtopia2 :)
Jul 24 23:33:49 <chillywilly> what is xqt?
Jul 24 23:34:16 <lpotter> http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/
Jul 24 23:34:35 <chillywilly> I really wish I could test GPRS but I don't have a data package at the moment and I have no idea what to enter into the config screen to get it working with my service
Jul 24 23:35:10 <lpotter> you can usually get them to give out the manual configuration instructions
Jul 24 23:36:37 <chillywilly> how does xqt work?
Jul 24 23:37:07 <chillywilly> does it replace the existing "display" server stuff?
Jul 24 23:37:29 <lpotter> its like an xserver in a qtopia window
Jul 24 23:37:37 <lpotter> but it is only for qtopia 2
Jul 24 23:37:44 <chillywilly> ok
Jul 24 23:37:49 <lpotter> you can run matchbox and xthings
Jul 24 23:38:01 <chillywilly> that would be nice
Jul 24 23:38:31 <chillywilly> is there a reason you are not using QT on X like some of the openmoko stuff?
Jul 24 23:38:36 <chillywilly> ASU, etc.
Jul 24 23:38:53 <lpotter> dont need X, and qtopia is developed for use without it
Jul 24 23:39:07 <chillywilly> ok, but why not use it?
Jul 24 23:39:18 <lpotter> why use it?
Jul 24 23:39:18 <chillywilly> open the possibility of some many more applications
Jul 24 23:39:26 <lpotter> not really
Jul 24 23:39:39 <chillywilly> because there's 1000s of X apps and I can display my desktop remotely through ssh with it :)
Jul 24 23:39:48 <lpotter> its slow, and uses resources
Jul 24 23:39:58 <lpotter> there's vnc
Jul 24 23:40:24 <chillywilly> well the desktop version of QT uses X, right?
Jul 24 23:40:25 <chillywilly> true
Jul 24 23:40:27 <lpotter> there is keypebble I am going to add to the feed
Jul 24 23:40:32 <lpotter> yes it does
Jul 24 23:40:32 <chillywilly> is there a qtopia VNC client?
Jul 24 23:40:38 <lpotter> yes
Jul 24 23:40:44 <lpotter> 'keypebble'
Jul 24 23:40:48 <chillywilly> cool
Jul 24 23:40:51 <lpotter> not uploaded yet
Jul 24 23:40:57 <chillywilly> then perhaps I'll give that a shot
Jul 24 23:41:21 <chillywilly> does it do the winders RDP thing too?
Jul 24 23:42:33 <chillywilly> like the gnome terminal server client does RDP, RDPv5, and VNC
Jul 24 23:42:58 <lpotter> dont knoe, probably just vns
Jul 24 23:43:01 <lpotter> vnc
Jul 24 23:44:04 <chillywilly> so is there a big effort to port certain apps to qtopia?
Jul 24 23:44:31 <lpotter> not really that I have heard
Jul 24 23:45:36 <chillywilly> what's a qpd and qpk file?
Jul 24 23:46:06 <chillywilly> btw, is the terminal supposed to work with the predictive keyboard because only the tiny full keyboard seems to work
Jul 24 23:46:28 <chillywilly> and that is annoying as I don't like to use a stylus as the freerunner has no stylus holder
Jul 24 23:46:38 <chillywilly> I just use my fat fingers
Jul 24 23:47:09 <chillywilly> even if I select 'ls' manually with the magnifying glass and then touch the "word" it just disappears into the abyss
Jul 24 23:47:26 <chillywilly> and does not enter those chars into the terminal
Jul 24 23:48:02 <lpotter> known issue
Jul 24 23:48:08 <lpotter> :)
Jul 24 23:48:12 <chillywilly> ok :)
Jul 24 23:49:09 <chillywilly> lpotter: what is a qpd and qpk?
Jul 24 23:53:21 <chillywilly> http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=725 <-- that would be nice to have with a freerunner
Jul 24 23:54:52 <chillywilly> http://www.hackerstickers.com/products/frogpad-bluetooth-mini-keyboard.shtml or that
Jul 24 23:55:08 <lpotter> i have an apple bt keyboard
Jul 24 23:55:19 <chillywilly> cool
Jul 24 23:55:26 <lpotter> unfortunately, qtopia does not have support for HID
Jul 24 23:55:29 <lpotter> at this time
Jul 24 23:55:39 <chillywilly> bah
Jul 24 23:55:48 <lpotter> i like this keyboard very much though, I take it with me to work, its my main keyboard
Jul 24 23:55:52 <chillywilly> why wouldn't it be more of a kernel thing?
Jul 24 23:56:21 <lpotter> needs some way to be inutted into the gui. probably wont take much, but it just has not been done yet
Jul 24 23:56:24 <chillywilly> I suppose you still need to handle it at the app layer at a certain point
Jul 24 23:56:27 <lpotter> inputted
Jul 24 23:56:29 <lpotter> yes
Jul 24 23:56:42 <lpotter> i will talk to the bt guy when he gets back
Jul 24 23:56:47 <chillywilly> cool :)
Jul 24 23:57:40 <chillywilly> could also support a USB keyboard
Jul 24 23:58:09 <chillywilly> they would both be HID devices wouldn't they?
Jul 24 23:59:58 <chillywilly> all I really need is a thin client type access to a linux desktop that I can run the citrix crap on
Jul 25 00:00:29 <chillywilly> I suppose VNC will have to do...I remember a buddy of mine setting up some remote desktop service/terminal client thing but I forge the name
Jul 25 00:00:40 <chillywilly> it actually saved your desktop session
Jul 25 00:00:48 <chillywilly> the state of your desktop session
Jul 25 00:01:15 <chillywilly> was based on LTSP I think but it was not the same
Jul 25 00:04:19 <lpotter> an qpd is a package descripton (control file) and qpk is like a ipkg but qtopia has added some security features such as not running scripts
Jul 25 00:16:08 <chillywilly> that seems silly
Jul 25 00:16:16 <chillywilly> why not just use opkg
Jul 25 00:17:32 <lpotter> because opkg is not compatible with our commercial  licensing
Jul 25 00:17:41 <lpotter> and opkg runs unsecure scripts as root
Jul 25 00:17:52 <chillywilly> you mean proprietary?
Jul 25 00:18:29 <lpotter> well libipkg was gpl, I assume there is a libopkg which is also gpl
Jul 25 00:18:48 <lpotter> so we could not link the packagemanager with that
Jul 25 00:18:51 <lpotter> :)
Jul 25 00:19:10 <lpotter> our customers dont want to release their code
Jul 25 00:19:23 <chillywilly> bleh
Jul 25 00:19:25 <lpotter> besides, ipkg and opkg are insecure
Jul 25 00:19:44 <chillywilly> so can I make qpk's?
Jul 25 00:19:47 <lpotter> i imagine that we will have deb support sometime in the future
Jul 25 00:20:10 <lpotter> yes, they are jus tthe same as old ipkg.. two tarballs in a tarball.
Jul 25 00:20:24 <lpotter> if you use the sdk or qtopia to make a package it will do it for you
Jul 25 00:21:01 <lpotter> buut qpk's needs a few more descriptions for the security checks
Jul 25 01:42:26 <chillywilly> everything runs as root on the phone right now
Jul 25 01:42:32 <chillywilly> how much more insecure can it be?
Jul 25 01:42:56 <chillywilly> ok, almost everything ;P
Jul 25 01:43:19 <chillywilly> root@om-gta02:~# ps aux | grep -v root
Jul 25 01:43:19 <chillywilly> USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
Jul 25 01:43:19 <chillywilly> daemon    1196  0.0  0.3   1508   380 ?        Ss   Jul24   0:00 /sbin/portmap
Jul 25 01:43:19 <chillywilly> 44        1273  0.0  0.6   2112   760 ?        Ss   Jul24   0:01 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
Jul 25 01:43:22 <chillywilly> avahi     1299  0.0  1.0   2696  1340 ?        Ss   Jul24   0:00 avahi-daemon: running [om-gta02.local]
Jul 25 01:43:47 <chillywilly> wonder what uid 44 is supposed to map to
Jul 25 01:43:51 <chillywilly> er, username
Jul 25 01:44:35 <chillywilly> anyway, you can't really get much more insecure than that
Jul 25 01:44:44 <chillywilly> hell I can ssh in as root with no password
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 25 02:59:57 2008