**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 04 02:59:56 2008
Aug 04 08:44:35 <Sput> I CAN HAZ FREERUNNERZ
Aug 04 08:44:43 <Sput> hmmm, what's the preferred way to get Qtopia on that thing?
Aug 04 08:45:11 <lpotter> right now is to flash the image at qtopia.net 
Aug 04 08:45:36 <Sput> not recommended to build current Qtopia from git?
Aug 04 08:45:46 <lpotter> or that too :)
Aug 04 08:45:50 <Sput> ok :)
Aug 04 08:46:02 * Sput is gonna have fun with that thing
Aug 04 09:21:59 <Sput> lpotter: do I get a qtopia image that can be used as root fs for the freerunner if I build myself with correct settings?
Aug 04 09:22:14 <Sput> or do I need to fiddle with the bootloader image/debug board/SD card thing?
Aug 04 09:23:00 <lpotter> you can flash the qtopia image and then upload yours, or use the rootfs to create one. but a warning, the dev rootfs is not secure
Aug 04 09:23:15 <lpotter> upload your build, I mean
Aug 04 09:23:26 <Sput> not secure as in...?
Aug 04 09:23:27 <lpotter> upload to the phone
Aug 04 09:23:38 <lpotter> ssh in as root w/o password :)
Aug 04 09:23:44 <Sput> ah :)
Aug 04 09:23:51 <Sput> well, that can probably be set, right?
Aug 04 09:23:59 <lpotter> ya
Aug 04 09:24:16 <lpotter> just change the dropbear arguments in /etc/init.d/dropbear
Aug 04 09:24:59 * Sput is gonna need some time to familiarize himself with that device
Aug 04 09:25:35 <Sput> also, is the original openmoko software really that unusable that you can't even configure things like the keyclick, or did I just not find the configuration screen?
Aug 04 09:26:53 <rohanpm> That wouldn't be surprising, because implementing the checkbox to turn on/off the key click is boring, there are far more interesting problems for a developer to solve
Aug 04 09:28:19 <Sput> rohanpm: well yeah, it's just that I didn't find _any_ configuration screen
Aug 04 09:28:25 <Sput> not even for muting the phone
Aug 04 09:28:54 <lpotter> Sput: just try them all out for yourself
Aug 04 09:29:29 <lpotter> Sput: they are on their 3rd rewrite of the software for openmoko. lots of wasted time and reimplementing things
Aug 04 09:30:28 <rohanpm> I guess you can extend what I said to settings in general
Aug 04 09:30:31 <Sput> yeah, I don't think I'll even do the dual booting thing, I'll build myself a Qtopia image tonight and will flash that
Aug 04 09:30:52 <rohanpm> Unless a developer has specifically been given the job to write boring settings apps, why would s/he do it when there are more interesting things to be done?
Aug 04 09:30:59 <Sput> btw, do we have a way to play mp3s with Qtopia?
Aug 04 09:31:06 <lpotter> yes
Aug 04 09:31:30 <Sput> good. calling and texting worked fine with the greenphone already, so I should be all set to use the phone on a daily basis then :)
Aug 04 09:31:40 <lpotter> the unoffical git should have cruxus and libmad plugins
Aug 04 09:32:07 <lpotter> Sput: there are still al lot of suspend.resume issues on the freerunner
Aug 04 09:32:27 <lpotter> problems like no waking on getting sms
Aug 04 09:32:32 <lpotter> have been reported
Aug 04 09:32:55 <Sput> lpotter: that a Qtopia problem or a problem with the freerunner in general?
Aug 04 09:33:20 <lpotter> pretty sure its a problem swith the frereunner
Aug 04 09:34:09 <Sput> hmmm... the Qtopia image I build does not include a kernel, right? i.e. I'll continue to use openmoko's kernel and then start Qtopia on top of it
Aug 04 09:34:14 <lpotter> once its in suspend, qtopia does not do anythingwith it until it resumes
Aug 04 09:34:51 <lpotter> if you use the image at qtopia.net, you get mwesters kernel that suspends/resumes better
Aug 04 09:36:35 <Sput> is mwester's kernel also available separately, so that you combine it with a self-built qtopia image?
Aug 04 09:37:35 <lpotter> yes
Aug 04 09:37:42 <Sput> cool
Aug 04 09:37:54 * Sput will start with qtopia.net's image first, and then see how it goes
Aug 04 09:38:17 <lpotter> http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html
Aug 04 09:40:10 <Sput> uh, konqueror can't download the image
Aug 04 09:40:42 <Sput> that's not nice :)
Aug 04 09:47:19 <Sput> hmm, so flashing the rootfs can't brick the freerunner, correct?
Aug 04 09:48:04 <leinir> Indeed :)
Aug 04 09:48:21 <leinir> In fact it should be impossible to brick a freerunner witout a debug board :)
Aug 04 09:48:29 <leinir> (as the NOR area is unflashable)
Aug 04 09:48:32 <Sput> oh, that is good to know :)
Aug 04 09:48:42 <Sput> and if you have a debug board, you can unbrick it anyway
Aug 04 09:49:06 <Sput> cool, gentoo has openmoko-dfu-util in portage
Aug 04 09:49:36 <Sput> well in sunrise, but still :)
Aug 04 09:49:38 <leinir> *nods* :)
Aug 04 09:50:37 <Sput> oh, /me needs to figure out the MAC too so I can use wlan at akademy
Aug 04 09:51:11 <lpotter> ifconfig
Aug 04 09:51:23 <Sput> yep
Aug 04 09:51:31 <Sput> as soon as I have a decent terminal going
Aug 04 09:53:25 <lpotter> there is one on the qtopia image :)
Aug 04 09:53:35 <Sput> lpotter: I am sure of it :)
Aug 04 09:53:46 * Sput liked Qtopia on the greenphone already, and that has been half a year ago
Aug 04 09:55:40 <lpotter> oh he updated the kernel
Aug 04 10:02:08 <Sput> leinir: hmmm, dfu-util can flash the boot loader as it seems... that's not a way to brick?
Aug 04 10:02:21 <leinir> Nope, it flashes the NAND version :)
Aug 04 10:02:38 <leinir> If you trash that one, there's a copy of the factory-installed one in NOR :)
Aug 04 10:03:00 <Sput> oh, so I can always get into the boot menu using the AUX/Power buttons
Aug 04 10:03:09 <Sput> even if I flashed a garbage uboot?
Aug 04 10:06:34 <leinir> Yes :)
Aug 04 10:07:07 <leinir> There are reports of a few devices that've been done wrong (as in the NOR requires something out of NAND), but it seems to be a very low number of devices :)
Aug 04 10:07:51 <Sput> good... not intending to update uboot currently anyway, but it's good to know that I can't brick it whatever I do :)
Aug 04 10:08:46 <leinir> *nods* :)
Aug 04 10:15:55 <Sput> aaaaah, the sweet looks of Qtopia
Aug 04 10:17:09 <leinir> Add an InvisibleSHIELD and the screen gets even more pretty :)
Aug 04 10:17:29 <Sput> what's that?
Aug 04 10:18:13 <leinir> Screen protector :)
Aug 04 10:18:59 <Sput> hmmm... any way to scan for existing WLANs with Qtopia?
Aug 04 10:19:03 <leinir> If you don't wanna lay down the USD10 without seeing it first, i'll of course be bringing mine to akademy :)
Aug 04 10:19:25 <lpotter> Sput: should be, not sure if it works though
Aug 04 10:22:59 <Sput> hmmm... is the WLAN thingy always on? I don't get an icon, and I haven't found an option to enable/disable it yet
Aug 04 10:23:02 <leinir> It's a touch convoluted :)
Aug 04 10:24:02 <Sput> just wondering, since the WLAN Detection doesn't pick up any networks, if I might need to enable the antenna first
Aug 04 10:24:47 <Sput> oh, found something :)
Aug 04 10:29:20 <Sput> hmmm, now to enable ethernet-over-usb
Aug 04 10:30:13 <leinir> Enabled by default, just plug it in and do the ifup usb0 thing on your computer :)
Aug 04 10:40:12 <Sput> yeah, need to put CDC support in my kernel first :/
Aug 04 10:40:27 <Sput> btw, we don't have a webbrowser yet for Qtopia, do we?
Aug 04 10:40:39 <leinir> No, need 4.4 for that one :)
Aug 04 10:40:53 <Sput> current git doesn't use 4.4 yet?
Aug 04 10:42:43 <lpotter> qtopai 4.4 snapshot are not yet released. 
Aug 04 10:45:07 <Sput> lpotter: but being worked on? any ETA?
Aug 04 10:53:33 <Sput> leinir: what was the device IP for CDC ether?
Aug 04 10:54:00 <leinir> 192.168.0.202
Aug 04 10:54:05 <Sput> ah, thx
Aug 04 10:54:25 <leinir> There's a howto on the OM wiki :)
Aug 04 10:54:59 <Sput> yeah, I did it with the greenphone, but I've forgotten the details :)
Aug 04 10:57:10 <Sput> works \o/
Aug 04 11:05:42 <Sput> hummm... does the WPA-EAP thingy not support PAP auth?
Aug 04 11:11:31 <Sput> wow, the phone call quality seems to be amazingly bad O_o
Aug 04 11:15:57 <Sput> anybody got the same issue? I am constantly having white noise and GSM stuff clicking
Aug 04 11:16:11 <Sput> don't think it was that bad when I had it boot with openmoko
Aug 04 11:40:07 <Sput> wow, reclibrating screwed up things amazingly :)
Aug 04 11:41:23 <leinir> Hehe, yeah, watch out with that one :)
Aug 04 11:42:57 <Sput> any way to reset?
Aug 04 11:44:06 <leinir> You can pull it back up again with some magic command that lpotter knows... ;)
Aug 04 11:50:21 <BabelO_> Sput: /etc/pointercal
Aug 04 11:50:29 <Sput> oh thx
Aug 04 11:53:00 <Sput> BabelO_: can I just remove that file?
Aug 04 11:53:39 <BabelO_> Sput: juste rename it :) and do another calibrate or ask someone to send one
Aug 04 11:53:57 * Sput would be happy with the factory-installed one
Aug 04 11:54:05 <Sput> I entered the calibration thingy by accident :/
Aug 04 11:54:11 <leinir> BabelO_: Thing is, there's a command to bring the calibrator up again :)
Aug 04 11:54:25 <Sput> oh, restarting the calibrator isn't the problem
Aug 04 11:54:34 <Sput> but I can't get it to accurately calibrate again :)
Aug 04 11:54:41 <Sput> it's slightly off no matter what I try
Aug 04 11:55:26 <leinir> Ah, right :)
Aug 04 12:01:02 <Sput> leinir: could you by any chance send me your /etc/pointercal (well, its contents) for the freerunner?
Aug 04 12:01:12 <Sput> or do you have one too, BabelO_?
Aug 04 12:01:39 <BabelO_> Sput: pointercal is just one line with numbers, maybe leinir can pastebin it
Aug 04 12:01:47 <BabelO_> Sput: no freerunner or neo for me :(
Aug 04 12:02:55 <leinir> 557 38667 -4654632 -51172 121 46965312 65536
Aug 04 12:04:49 <Sput> thanks, I'll try :)
Aug 04 12:04:59 <Sput> leinir: how is call quality for you?
Aug 04 12:05:29 <leinir> Can't say... i don't really do much calling ;)
Aug 04 12:10:22 * Sput orders an invisibleshield
Aug 04 12:12:56 <Sput> cool, free shipping to europe
Aug 04 12:14:57 <leinir> Remember to use the coupons :)
Aug 04 12:15:08 <leinir> i think it was pcpro20 or somesuch
Aug 04 12:33:16 <Sput> ooh, too late
Aug 04 12:33:45 <leinir> Ah :)
Aug 04 12:34:04 <leinir> Well, it's not so much anyway, 20% off so little is barely a hot dog ;)
Aug 04 12:35:09 <Sput> your pointercal worked, thanks :)
Aug 04 12:36:15 <leinir> Nifty :)
Aug 04 14:52:21 <danw_> hi everyone, I was wondering if the opensync "opie" plugin still vaguely works with current versions of qtopia?
Aug 04 14:53:48 <danw_> and if not, is there any current sync solution between qtopia and a linux desktop
Aug 04 15:49:55 <weatherhead> i'm looking for a way to get qtopia to sync with a linux desktop...
Aug 04 16:15:39 <weatherhead> also, I would like to use a bluetooth keyboard with qtopia...
Aug 04 17:18:20 <Sput> hmm, any news on SyncML support? I remember somebody wanted to implement that last year
Aug 04 17:24:26 * jott will wake up one day having working synchronisation across all his devices... realizing afterwards that he was still dreaming.
Aug 04 17:39:55 <weatherhead> also, I noticed that I can send vCards by text
Aug 04 17:39:57 <weatherhead> but not receive them
Aug 04 17:40:22 <weatherhead> lol, I don't want synchronisation accross _all_ my devices, just my neo and my pc
Aug 04 17:45:48 <weatherhead> oh, and my google calendar ;-)
Aug 04 17:46:31 <jott> weatherhead: google calendar sync should work with qtopia.
Aug 04 17:47:34 <weatherhead> jott: how?
Aug 04 17:49:51 <jott> weatherhead: Calendar -> Options -> "Accounts"  (never tried as i do not use google cal)
Aug 04 17:49:59 <weatherhead> oh
Aug 04 17:50:15 <weatherhead> I don't have that option
Aug 04 17:50:53 <jott> mh running an relatively old image on my greenphone ;)
Aug 04 17:51:10 <weatherhead> I see the help item on calendar accounts
Aug 04 17:51:15 <weatherhead> but that option isn't there on my freerunner
Aug 04 17:51:46 <jott> maybe wait for ljp to respond :)
Aug 04 17:52:00 <weatherhead> ok
Aug 04 17:56:06 <weatherhead> ping ljo
Aug 04 17:56:09 <weatherhead> ping ljp
Aug 04 19:05:19 <lpotter> hi
Aug 04 19:07:28 <RXShorty> Hi
Aug 04 19:07:37 <RXShorty> How are things?
Aug 04 19:10:43 <lpotter> busy
Aug 04 19:11:02 <RXShorty> hmm that's no good... 
Aug 04 19:11:34 <RXShorty> Keep it up..
Aug 04 19:19:14 <RXShorty> lpotter: is ASU better the Qtopia at the moment? or Is the practically the same?
Aug 04 19:19:38 <lpotter> qtopia is better. ASU is still very alpha
Aug 04 19:19:56 <leinir> Last i heard a report from someone on it, ASU was horribly broken
Aug 04 19:20:00 <leinir> (a couple of days ago)
Aug 04 19:20:12 <RXShorty> Ahh ok
Aug 04 19:20:17 <leinir> It was likely a between-commits snapshot problem, but still :)
Aug 04 19:20:36 <RXShorty> ok
Aug 04 19:20:40 <RXShorty> and the is also FSO?
Aug 04 19:20:58 <RXShorty> I only tried the stable openmoko 2007.2 and Qtopia...
Aug 04 19:21:37 <RXShorty> So overall Qtopia is the best.
Aug 04 19:21:38 <RXShorty> ?
Aug 04 19:23:40 <lpotter> of course :)
Aug 04 19:23:50 <lpotter> i am not biased either :)
Aug 04 19:24:26 <leinir> At this point in time, yes, Qtopia is the best option :)
Aug 04 19:24:37 <RXShorty> Heh! My experience is also the best with Qtopia so far... so guess you are right :)
Aug 04 19:24:42 <leinir> While you might like the x server's possibilities in the other images, they just aren't ready yet :)
Aug 04 19:24:46 <lpotter> and for the future, qtopia will remain the best :)
Aug 04 19:25:15 <RXShorty> Hehe ok people. I believe you :D
Aug 04 19:25:37 <leinir> Of course, but at that time it'll come down to wether you like the integrated solution (like me) or wether you want an everything device (which basically they are aiming for with the openmoko distributions) :)
Aug 04 19:25:40 <lpotter> what other answers would yo uget? look at the # channel? :)
Aug 04 19:26:44 <RXShorty> lpotter: hehe... true... then again you could be fair to people and say a other distro is better (if it was that way ofcourse) :P
Aug 04 19:26:57 <weatherhead> lpotter: do you know anything about the google calendar in qtopia?
Aug 04 19:28:25 <RXShorty> leinir: I must say the openmoko distro kinda disappointed me. I thought they were a lot further, it is not even very usable, I mean the menu and stuff, it isn't logical or stable.
Aug 04 19:28:42 <weatherhead> no, 
Aug 04 19:29:02 <weatherhead> none of the stuff is labelled. It;s next to impossible to work out how to send an SMS
Aug 04 19:29:23 <RXShorty> yeah
Aug 04 19:29:59 <RXShorty> I don't get it... they are working on it for a while now. Maybe over a year or 2... I am going to try it again. For now Qtopia.
Aug 04 19:30:19 <RXShorty> The only thing I am really waiting for is getting my Wireless working with the GUI :P
Aug 04 19:30:36 <lpotter> RXShorty: true. I rightly will say Maemo is better on n810 than qtopia
Aug 04 19:30:47 <lpotter> weatherhead: nope
Aug 04 19:30:53 <weatherhead> if they seriously want to compete with other platforms, the iunterface needs to be more responsive
Aug 04 19:31:05 <weatherhead> RXShorty: I had wifi working through the qtopia interface the other day
Aug 04 19:31:10 <weatherhead> now it is broken again
Aug 04 19:31:27 <RXShorty> Sigh... it sais connected al the time... but it doesn't download the packages server list
Aug 04 19:31:44 <RXShorty> lpotter: I know ;-) 
Aug 04 19:31:52 <lpotter> in qtopia, the default route is not getting set correctly
Aug 04 19:32:33 <lpotter> I might just rewrite lan-network to use interfaces
Aug 04 19:32:44 <RXShorty> Ohh lot of work I guess
Aug 04 19:32:54 <lpotter> not especially, its a bash script
Aug 04 19:33:04 <RXShorty> hmm ok
Aug 04 19:33:32 <RXShorty> I hope you will find some time soon :)
Aug 04 19:33:33 <RXShorty> brb
Aug 04 19:34:08 <weatherhead> In what ways is "freerunner" qtopia different than "stock" qtopia?
Aug 04 19:34:39 <lpotter> well, the binary image you can flash for the Neo, contains terminal app
Aug 04 19:35:00 <lpotter> apart from that, it is al lin qtopia
Aug 04 19:35:03 <lpotter> all in 
Aug 04 19:35:07 <weatherhead> it's just that I'm reading some stuff, and it's telling me that you can find an "accounts" page under calendar
Aug 04 19:35:17 <weatherhead> which I cannot find on my neo
Aug 04 19:35:32 <lpotter> reading stuff where from?
Aug 04 19:35:52 <weatherhead> the help on the device itself :-)
Aug 04 19:36:53 <weatherhead> it also says you can enter letters to filter the contact list, which you can't, but I'm assuming that's because there is no hardware keyboard
Aug 04 19:36:55 <lpotter> heh
Aug 04 19:37:15 <lpotter> ya. thats kind of fixed in 4.4
Aug 04 19:37:41 <weatherhead> also, I cannot connect a bluetooth keyboard
Aug 04 19:37:44 <weatherhead> I did it through hidd
Aug 04 19:37:48 <weatherhead> and it is fine,
Aug 04 19:37:51 <weatherhead> but no data entry from it
Aug 04 19:38:02 <leinir> lpotter: Has it got a proper filter bar now? Or does it just do that old fashioned jump-to-entry type filtering? :)
Aug 04 19:39:09 <lpotter> its just letters on the side that scrolls. not sure about filtering, will check on that today
Aug 04 19:39:42 <weatherhead> mine also does not list alphabetically
Aug 04 19:39:54 <weatherhead> it goes to the end of the alphabet with some contacts, then starts again with some more...
Aug 04 19:40:18 <weatherhead> I would have filed a few bugs, if I knew where...
Aug 04 19:40:19 <weatherhead> lol
Aug 04 19:41:17 <lpotter> http://trolltech.com/trolltech/bugreport-form
Aug 04 19:41:34 <weatherhead> oooohhhhhhhhh
Aug 04 19:41:40 <weatherhead> silly me
Aug 04 19:41:44 <lpotter> :)
Aug 04 19:41:54 <RXShorty> always willing to help lpotter :P
Aug 04 19:42:52 <RXShorty> lpotter: found some time to put the binaries online so I can translate some things
Aug 04 19:43:09 <RXShorty> Also still didn't get any reply from trolltech about the translation to Dutch :S
Aug 04 19:46:10 <lpotter> can you forward or resend that meail to me? lpotter at trolltech dot com
Aug 04 19:46:18 <lpotter> email that is
Aug 04 19:48:52 <RXShorty> send :) and thanks
Aug 04 19:52:48 <lpotter> you can always out your files on qtopia.net too
Aug 04 19:52:53 <lpotter> put that is
Aug 04 19:53:02 <RXShorty> True...
Aug 04 19:53:35 <RXShorty> Well I asked trolltech if I can translate, they asked some information about me and they would send a PDF kind of NDA I guess.
Aug 04 19:54:10 <RXShorty> That why I ask.
Aug 04 19:57:02 <RXShorty> Sorry I bugged you with it.
Aug 04 19:58:09 <lpotter> no worries, its my job :)
Aug 04 20:00:51 <RXShorty> heh ok still thanks
Aug 04 20:06:47 <RXShorty> Goodnight people
Aug 04 20:15:04 <lpotter> NDA for translating?
Aug 04 20:29:33 <jott> lpotter: copyright assignment agreement i suppose 
Aug 04 20:40:56 <yagabey> Hello..
Aug 04 20:41:18 <yagabey> Anybody using kdevelop and qtopia 4 together
Aug 04 20:41:20 <yagabey> ?
Aug 04 20:41:33 <lpotter> sometimes yes
Aug 04 20:42:15 <yagabey> i am trying to set env params from run options and make options..
Aug 04 20:42:26 <yagabey> but i am having trouble
Aug 04 20:42:59 <yagabey> can you suggest me some references about that,?
Aug 04 20:44:08 <lpotter> I will have to look into that. I need to write up a qtopia 4 kdevelop doc
Aug 04 20:44:43 <lpotter> hmm and its going to get even trickier for 4.4, as we use qbuild and not qmake/make
Aug 04 20:45:05 <yagabey> yes actually, i mean 4.4
Aug 04 20:46:06 <yagabey> i could use kdevelop for qtopa1.7 but for 4.4, i couldnt manage to setup the ide
Aug 04 22:20:49 <tsdogs> ljp: any news about qtopia 4.4? don't want to bother you that much about this, though knowing if it'll be soon or later would be apreciated :)
Aug 04 22:27:40 <zchydem> Hi, is it possible to use QWSEmbedWidget to embed a top-level widget from another process if I know its winId? 
Aug 04 22:38:27 <zchydem> never mind the question. Now it works
Aug 04 23:17:43 <ljp> tsdogs: still a few more weeks
Aug 04 23:18:35 <tsdogs> ljp: thanks :), was wandering if it's worth a try to port arora/webkit to 4.3.2 or not (or even possible)
Aug 04 23:27:04 <jott> tsdogs: i had webkit running on my greenphone quite some time ago. 
Aug 04 23:28:02 <tsdogs> jott: so it should be trivial to port :) I'll give it a try tnx (any special requirements?)
Aug 04 23:29:19 <jott> tsdogs: i used a webkit svn snapshot. but i am not sure if they dropped 4.3 compatibility now.
Aug 04 23:30:09 <tsdogs> well, I should have a 4.3 version around from merkaartor
Aug 04 23:31:13 <jott> otherwise it where just some trivial hiccups afair.
Aug 04 23:31:30 <tsdogs> ok thanks
Aug 04 23:31:31 <jott> do you work on merkaartor?
Aug 04 23:31:49 <jott> (i just ran it today on my n810 ;)
Aug 04 23:32:28 <tsdogs> not really (only done translation right now, I'm following it's development though)
Aug 04 23:32:32 <tsdogs> ;)
Aug 04 23:34:12 <jott> tsdogs: http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9837/merkaartorvq8.png
Aug 04 23:35:05 <tsdogs> cool :), font looks big though
Aug 04 23:35:33 <jott> default maemo/hildon font on n810 :)
Aug 05 01:44:56 <chouimat> evening :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 02:59:57 2008