**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 02:59:57 2008
Aug 05 05:56:54 <railer> anyone know how to add icons to qt, I have a bunch of programs installed but no icons I can play? 
Aug 05 08:12:39 <lpotter> like what apps? 
Aug 05 08:12:50 <lpotter> the package manager will install qpk's
Aug 05 08:14:17 <lpotter> I didnt know there were a bunch of programs to install in qtopia 
Aug 05 08:14:36 <lpotter> are they openmoko apps? if so, they wont work in qtopia
Aug 05 08:14:44 <lpotter> openmoko uses x, qtopia does not
Aug 05 10:31:28 <emacsen> ljp, is bluetooth working in the current builds?
Aug 05 10:31:33 <emacsen> bluetooth headsets?
Aug 05 10:34:03 <lpotter> not that i know of. but I dont think its working in openmoko either
Aug 05 11:01:42 <emacsen> k, then I won't spend morre time debugging why my headsets don't work :)
Aug 05 11:06:56 <emacsen> I should try the physical headphones too at some point
Aug 05 11:07:05 <emacsen> I just don't like putting cell phones up to my eat
Aug 05 11:07:08 <emacsen> ear either
Aug 05 13:22:01 <chouimat> the latest qtopia snapshot for the gta02 works ok?
Aug 05 14:11:26 <chouimat> what is the sd card device in the qtopia image?
Aug 05 14:11:33 <chouimat> for the freerunner
Aug 05 14:43:25 <kizzza> hi all, can anyone help me with finding qtopia sync agent?
Aug 05 14:47:04 <BabelO_> kizzza: it is in the build
Aug 05 14:49:52 <kizzza> I am looking for the desktop side - what do I have to build for that?
Aug 05 15:05:53 <chouimat> hmmmm 
Aug 05 15:21:57 <chouimat> I can't mount the sd card :(
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 16:02:02 2008
Aug 05 17:14:58 <railer> qtopia installs qpk's?
Aug 05 17:32:16 <railer> nm figured it out, is their any other package locations for the neo other than http://qtopia.net/packages/feed/4.3.2/neo/
Aug 05 17:55:10 <leinir> railer: None official, one containing a very simple wifi scanner, but they are quite simple to create if you have some qpks that aren't included there :)
Aug 05 18:02:13 <chouimat> hehe just put master of puppet as my ringtone :)
Aug 05 18:44:03 * lpotter thinks kde 4.1 leaks memory
Aug 05 18:52:28 <chouimat> hi lpotter
Aug 05 18:52:38 <lpotter> hi
Aug 05 18:53:43 <BabelO> hi
Aug 05 18:54:44 <BabelO> lpotter: no memory leak for me , i use 4.1 with effetcs
Aug 05 18:56:02 <lpotter> odd. mine slowing consumes all ram and sawp
Aug 05 18:57:09 <BabelO> lpotter: computer running all the day, and only 384b used, now with kopete + firefox +konversation + kmail, i m at 741 b stable
Aug 05 18:57:28 <BabelO> only leak is flash player plugin in firefox
Aug 05 18:57:36 <BabelO> as useal
Aug 05 19:56:42 <leinir> lpotter: i have found another way to get the powermanagement thing to act correctly - plug in a headset while it's charging :)
Aug 05 19:57:03 <lpotter> hmm
Aug 05 19:57:23 <leinir> And this one is 100% reproducible :)
Aug 05 20:01:40 <leinir> Oh yeah *giggles* an unrelated, dunno if you noticed or not, but the cursor in the terminal thinks that the font is mono-spaced ;)
Aug 05 20:03:01 <lpotter> yep
Aug 05 20:03:34 <leinir> thought you might've, it /is/ kinda obvious ;)
Aug 05 20:14:18 <weatherhead> hey
Aug 05 20:17:30 <railer> leinir- i would like to create some for some ipkg games
Aug 05 20:18:03 <leinir> railer: i'm not the one to ask :)
Aug 05 20:18:15 <leinir> i'm simply a user fror now :)
Aug 05 20:20:41 <jott> speaking of, it would be great if sdl would be included in the default images. :)
Aug 05 20:42:24 <weatherhead> roughly how often do new qtopia images for freerunner get put up on qtopia.net
Aug 05 20:43:20 <leinir> weatherhead: Roughly once a week or so :)
Aug 05 20:43:29 <weatherhead> really, that's great
Aug 05 20:43:53 <weatherhead> but there ahsn't been a new one since the 24th ;-)
Aug 05 20:44:11 <leinir> Well, it's up and down ;)
Aug 05 20:44:32 <leinir> i'm waiting until thursday to see what happens, then i'm flashing (traveling to Belgium at that time :) )
Aug 05 20:44:50 <weatherhead> the current image is great though, just a few flaky bits
Aug 05 20:45:02 <weatherhead> I got a response from trolltech about my queries yesterday
Aug 05 20:45:35 <weatherhead> they said that "the calendar application is just meant to demonstrate the calendar API and is not meant to be a proper application"
Aug 05 20:45:58 <lpotter> yep :)
Aug 05 20:46:10 <weatherhead> even so, I wasn't complaining about that
Aug 05 20:46:23 <weatherhead> I was just saying that some stuff in their onboard "help" file doesn't in fact exist in the program
Aug 05 20:46:43 <lpotter> new images are made when something substantial changes worth puttin g anew image up
Aug 05 20:56:33 <lpotter> weatherhead: those responses dont mean you cannot report a bug to task tracker
Aug 05 20:56:54 <weatherhead> 'm sorry I'm new to trolltech bug reporting, how do I find that
Aug 05 20:59:42 <lpotter> http://trolltech.com/trolltech/bugreport-form
Aug 05 21:00:26 <weatherhead> that was where I sent the last query
Aug 05 21:01:05 <weatherhead> the problem is, all the "bugs" I have found are basically related to stuff like that.
Aug 05 21:01:30 <weatherhead> If I send  a bug report saying "when a new SMS is received the message pops up "would you liek to read it now?". If I press yes, nothing happens
Aug 05 21:01:46 <weatherhead> thn they could just say "the messaging app isn't meant to work it's just meant to demonstrate the API
Aug 05 21:08:03 <railer> I've been using qtopia for a couple days now it seems MUCH more advanced then any other FR distro
Aug 05 21:09:28 <leinir> Well, it /has/ had a couple of years head start ;)
Aug 05 21:11:13 <leinir> (that, and it doesn't suffer from schizophrenia ;) )
Aug 05 21:11:39 <weatherhead> yes
Aug 05 21:11:48 <weatherhead> I installed qtopia and thought..... why the HELL aren't they just using this?
Aug 05 21:12:09 <weatherhead> why didn't they just fork it, sort out the comparitively tiny issues and destroy the iphone ;-)
Aug 05 21:12:55 <jott> if qtopia had gone gpl sooner this might have happened :)
Aug 05 21:13:03 <railer> well I think concentrating on wifi and gps and it's very usable, need to research qpk packages
Aug 05 21:13:14 <weatherhead> it's been gpl for a while though hasn't it?
Aug 05 21:13:47 <railer> anyone know why qipkg is not working it just sits there Please Wait.....
Aug 05 21:13:57 <jott> weatherhead: well not long enough unfortunately.
Aug 05 21:14:14 <weatherhead> yes but the point is
Aug 05 21:14:14 <leinir> They don't want gpl, they want "shaft us if you want to do closed source"gpl (aka lgpl ;) )
Aug 05 21:14:30 <jott> (the actual phone libs where closed quite some time)
Aug 05 21:14:46 <weatherhead> even now they've "moved " to qtopia officially, they have only managed to break everything that was working
Aug 05 21:15:02 <weatherhead> with the only advantage being the abiility to run gtk apps on it....
Aug 05 21:15:43 <weatherhead> I have no problem with having gtk apps as a goal, but most people who want to buy a smartphone would prefer it to be working 
Aug 05 21:16:07 <jott> hehe well someone should revive the qtopia based xserver :)
Aug 05 21:17:23 <weatherhead> the thing is though, I'm not sure an x server is necessary in the short term.
Aug 05 21:17:30 <weatherhead> I want to carry a phone
Aug 05 21:17:36 <weatherhead> I don't want to carry a full computer in my pocket
Aug 05 21:21:23 <lpotter> jott: except they have rewritting their interface from scratch for the 3rdtime
Aug 05 21:22:16 <lpotter> jott: thats true. I would do it if I had more time
Aug 05 21:22:25 <lpotter> (look into xqt for qtopia 4)
Aug 05 21:22:43 <weatherhead> wow... just flashed today's ASU and kernel, massive decrease in boot time
Aug 05 21:23:02 <lpotter> the next qtopia iamge will be based on the new asu rootfs
Aug 05 21:23:26 <weatherhead> .... ARRRRRGHHHH!! NOOO!!! ASU is broken!!!
Aug 05 21:23:47 <lpotter> not the system.
Aug 05 21:23:57 <weatherhead> no
Aug 05 21:23:58 <weatherhead> I suppose not
Aug 05 21:24:00 <lpotter> I remove all the unneeded gtk/asu stuff
Aug 05 21:24:07 <lpotter> :)
Aug 05 21:24:26 <jott> hah i just saw that qtopia-x which would actually work quite out of the box but is an ugly hack: run a vnc x11 and connect to it with qtopia vnc viewer :)
Aug 05 21:25:14 <leinir> lpotter: How's the ETA on that one? Please say Thursday sometime, so i can have it before i leave for Belgium ;)
Aug 05 21:26:08 <lpotter> ok. will try
Aug 05 21:26:39 <leinir> Don't worry *giggles* if it isn't ready, it isn't ready :)
Aug 05 21:26:55 <leinir> i'll flash the image that's up there Thursday night before i go to bed :)
Aug 05 21:27:19 <jott> hm thinking about it, i could actually release my oxygen icon set now as kde4 is out for quite some time now. wonder if it works with recent snapshots :)
Aug 05 21:28:17 <weatherhead> actually having said what I just did, I have just booted the latest ASU image
Aug 05 21:28:23 <weatherhead> it's incredibe how much progress they've made in a week
Aug 05 21:28:28 <weatherhead> it's still broken, mind
Aug 05 21:29:10 <leinir> Hehe, there's allnighters all round, i guarantee it ;)
Aug 05 21:29:59 <leinir> They /need/ it ready for Tuesday next week, or they'll look really silly at Akademy :)
Aug 05 21:30:41 <jott> leinir: just demo some screenshots :P
Aug 05 21:30:55 <jott> or better mockups :)
Aug 05 21:33:28 <leinir> *giggles* Well, they've gotta upstage Nokia somehow, who's handing out 100 N801 devices ;)
Aug 05 21:33:55 <jott> http://outpo.st/oxytopia-1.0pre.tar.gz <- oxygen based iconset for qtopia. who ever wants to test it with current qtopia versions please do so and tell if it works. (it's actually from nov 07)
Aug 05 21:34:14 <jott> leinir: heh well yeah the nokia thing is hard to beat :>
Aug 05 21:34:35 <leinir> Indeed :)
Aug 05 21:34:50 <leinir> So, to upstage that, they need the stack ready to show off ;)
Aug 05 21:35:00 <jott> and the n810 is a gorgeous device. got one here and love it :)
Aug 05 21:37:52 <leinir> (i managed to get one of those places, looking forward to seeing what it all amounts to :) )
Aug 05 21:38:14 <jott> attract more devs :)
Aug 05 21:38:42 <leinir> Well, of course :) more what the idea for it actually is :)
Aug 05 21:38:55 <jott> idea for what?
Aug 05 21:39:02 <leinir> Well, the whole day, really :)
Aug 05 21:40:03 <jott> awareness that kde might be useful in embedded space and that devs should consider resource constraints again :)
Aug 05 21:40:27 <leinir> *nods* At any rate, i'm very much looking forward to it :)
Aug 05 21:53:40 <railer> anyone know where the log of this chat room is 
Aug 05 21:54:11 <railer> and is there a wiki specific to qtopia + open moko?\
Aug 05 21:57:30 <jott> railer: i only know of http://greenphone-wiki.org which is partly outdated 
Aug 05 22:12:48 <railer> I think I'll start a wiki just for OM and qtopia
Aug 05 22:13:58 <railer> or start and addition to http://wiki.openmoko.org
Aug 05 22:14:19 <weatherhead> that wiki is awful
Aug 05 22:14:34 <railer> I know
Aug 05 22:14:39 <jott> i think making in generic to qtopia would be better.
Aug 05 22:14:50 <jott> it
Aug 05 22:14:54 <railer> I dont have the heart to tell the guys who make it that it just sucks
Aug 05 22:14:57 <weatherhead> in fact, most wikis are awful
Aug 05 22:15:07 <weatherhead> you can't ever find anything on them, even though a really useful page is there
Aug 05 22:15:09 <jott> not as awful as forums but still :)
Aug 05 22:15:15 <weatherhead> no, not as awful as forums
Aug 05 22:15:28 <weatherhead> but what is actually wrong with "proper" websites where users can submit article type thigns
Aug 05 22:15:31 <weatherhead> joomla et al
Aug 05 22:15:51 <railer> Difference is I'm an computer instructor with education training, I'm hoping that sould help
Aug 05 22:16:06 <railer> cant spell though
Aug 05 22:16:09 <jott> weatherhead: it's not as collaborative and entry barriers are actually higher.
Aug 05 22:16:22 <weatherhead> I was looking at a wiki page the other day, and someone had put "this doesn't work as of ____"
Aug 05 22:16:30 <weatherhead> thensomeone else had put under it "is this still true?"
Aug 05 22:16:36 <weatherhead> and someone else put "I think so"
Aug 05 22:17:05 <weatherhead> jott: that may be true, but ordinary end users absolutely do NOT want wikis to find their information
Aug 05 22:17:06 <jott> heh. well good wikis still need some sort of maintainer or someone feeling responsible for articles.
Aug 05 22:17:26 <weatherhead> for developers and collaborative writing I see the use
Aug 05 22:19:42 <jott> yeah well, writing *good* and *comprehensive* documentation is usually not a that easy and wikis atleast increase comprehensiveness due to collaboration.
Aug 05 22:20:38 <railer> the problem is with a actually web site openmoko right now is such a moving target
Aug 05 22:20:40 <jott> but yeah, a good, well written documentation is probably better for endusers.
Aug 05 22:21:03 <railer> things change literally from day to day
Aug 05 22:21:07 <weatherhead> yes I know,
Aug 05 22:21:10 <weatherhead> so I see the problem
Aug 05 22:21:19 <weatherhead> but someone needs to think about this when they actually decide to aim for a proper market
Aug 05 22:21:55 <jott> i would claim qtopia was actually never targeted at enduser market :)
Aug 05 22:22:17 <jott> (atleast the upstream trolltech version)
Aug 05 22:22:47 <weatherhead> jott: fair dos, but in fact as far as the openmoko is concerned it's far and away the closest thing to an end user release there is
Aug 05 22:24:38 <jott> no objections :)
Aug 05 22:25:39 <railer>  jott: i would claim qtopia was actually never targeted at enduser market - then what's the point? Without an end use there is no market
Aug 05 22:25:56 <jott> railer: sell it to system integrators.
Aug 05 22:26:38 <railer> but with the end users in mind the system integrators won't touch it
Aug 05 22:27:08 <railer> the question is is qtopia OS?
Aug 05 22:27:33 <weatherhead> it's GPL and hence open source
Aug 05 22:27:39 <jott> sure, but usually a system integrator wants to make changes to differntiate and also provide enduser support (like documentation etc)
Aug 05 22:28:32 <weatherhead> OTOH, the world doesn't need another symbian
Aug 05 22:28:49 <railer> well I'll catch up later, off to work for a bit
Aug 05 22:30:28 <jott> weatherhead: well we'll see qt on symbian in a not too distant future i guess :)
Aug 05 22:30:51 <weatherhead> hmmm yes
Aug 05 22:31:06 <weatherhead> as long as they don't kill off qtopia I'm happy
Aug 05 22:33:57 <jott> yeah, i really wonder what nokias plans are. well moving times ahead in the mobile world anyway.
Aug 05 22:37:47 <ljp> nokia is not planning on killing off qtopia
Aug 05 22:38:23 <ljp> just not trying to sell it as an end solution.. i.e. the apps are example applications to test the Qtopia APIs
Aug 05 22:38:24 <weatherhead> when companies say "not planning on" something they mean "not until next financial year" often
Aug 05 22:39:19 <ljp> they cannot kill of qtopia anyway, its gpl
Aug 05 22:39:23 <ljp> kill off
Aug 05 22:39:36 <jott> but they could kill your job ljp :P
Aug 05 22:40:24 <jott> for now i also doubt they would kill qtopia. so little investment for an good asset.
Aug 05 22:41:40 <weatherhead> yeah by kill off I meant kill the pro development
Aug 05 22:44:05 <ljp> and make 40 talented developers jobless? i dont think so
Aug 05 22:45:36 <jott> (with "good asset" i meant the product AND the brisbane team btw :)
Aug 05 22:48:40 <ljp> more qtopai apis will be moved into qt.
Aug 05 22:49:10 <ljp> so Qtopia wil lbecome more of a platform like Qt is
Aug 05 22:50:48 <jott> hm interesting. which apis? 
Aug 05 22:58:07 <ljp> libraries :)
Aug 05 23:24:40 <break_free> is there a good browser for qtopia? 
Aug 05 23:28:58 <ljp> not available yet
Aug 06 01:28:55 <chillywilly> bah
Aug 06 01:29:00 <emacsen> baa!
Aug 06 01:36:49 <chillywilly> so do I need an arm toolchain to buils qtopia or do you build one as part of the process? Also anyone have any configure options handy to build fro the freerunner?
Aug 06 01:36:59 <chillywilly> for*
Aug 06 01:39:29 <ljp> there should be a toolchain at qtopia.net. the configure line is $QTOPIA_DEPOT_PATH/configure -device ficgta01
Aug 06 01:43:55 <chillywilly> ok
Aug 06 01:44:03 <chillywilly> thank you
Aug 06 01:45:33 <chillywilly> found it
Aug 06 01:46:13 <chillywilly> um, the device is gat02 though...does that matter?
Aug 06 01:46:17 <chillywilly> gta02
Aug 06 01:51:35 <emacsen> ljp, don't you love the situation with the glamo?
Aug 06 02:03:55 <chillywilly> what about the glamo?
Aug 06 02:04:10 <emacsen> well from what I heard, they found it may have extra cores
Aug 06 02:04:24 <emacsen> but the company won't provide specs on it w/o an NDA
Aug 06 02:04:40 <emacsen> (ie it could be a lot faster or used for other processing)
Aug 06 02:04:54 <chillywilly> well that would heklp 3d accel wouldn't it?
Aug 06 02:06:33 <ljp> chillywilly: nope. its for both, despite the name
Aug 06 02:07:34 <chillywilly> ok, thanks
Aug 06 02:07:59 <chillywilly> ljp: where do you have the toolchain installed? /?
Aug 06 02:08:05 <chillywilly> home directory?
Aug 06 02:18:37 <ljp> needsto be in /
Aug 06 02:18:45 <ljp> it lives in /opt/toolchains/...
Aug 06 02:38:26 <chillywilly> ok
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 06 03:00:02 2008