**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 10 03:00:06 2008
Oct 10 03:00:39 <abram> rohanpm, I've tested it
Oct 10 03:01:04 <rohanpm> abram: and?
Oct 10 03:01:05 <abram> rohanpm, disabling animation works, but there's issue with GFX_USE_QT
Oct 10 03:01:20 <rohanpm> abram: please reply to the last email with your findings
Oct 10 03:01:23 <abram> but that's another story... :)
Oct 10 03:01:24 <abram> ok
Oct 10 03:10:39 <abram> rohanpm, it's very strange; it started working ok just when i wanted to make a screenshot :-D
Oct 10 03:26:20 <wurp2|gone> Is there a known performance problem with mediaplayer in qtext?
Oct 10 03:27:23 <rohanpm> wurp2|gone: what's the problem?
Oct 10 03:31:40 <wurp2|gone> consistent stuttering
Oct 10 03:31:48 <wurp2|gone> I may have been only running at 200 mhz
Oct 10 03:31:51 <wurp2|gone> (gta01)
Oct 10 03:31:59 <wurp2|gone> restarting at 266 mhz
Oct 10 03:32:10 <abram> rohanpm, i've made screenshots and sent bug-report
Oct 10 03:32:14 <wurp2|gone> sorry, doing 2 or 3 other things at once :-)
Oct 10 03:42:42 <wurp2|working> It's better at 266 mhz, but still barely worth listening to :-(
Oct 10 03:44:01 <wurp2|working> I reniced mediaserver to -10, which sounded as if it helped a little.  It's still bad, though.
Oct 10 03:44:19 <ljp> wurp2|working: yes. mediaplayer in 4.4.1 is cruddy
Oct 10 03:44:41 <ljp> media guys know about it
Oct 10 03:44:51 <wurp2|working> OK, I'll stop fiddling with it, then
Oct 10 03:45:11 <wurp2|working> What I saw of the web browser is pretty great
Oct 10 03:45:28 <wurp2|working> Bugs in scrolling, but no big deal
Oct 10 03:46:12 <ljp> a good starting point though
Oct 10 03:46:33 <wurp2|working> yeah
Oct 10 03:46:39 <wurp2|working> worth switching from 4.3.2
Oct 10 03:46:44 <wurp2|working> which, given the bugs, is saying a lot
Oct 10 03:47:59 <wurp2|working> it's weird - increasing my cpu speed helped, but it wasn't taking more than 45% cpu before
Oct 10 03:48:39 * mwester smells buffering problems then
Oct 10 04:03:26 <ljp> me - "but it works in 4.3", them -"oh.."
Oct 10 04:05:28 <ljp> :)
Oct 10 04:11:03 <wurp2|working> I will :) when I can listen to my music at work again :-/
Oct 10 04:11:27 <wurp2|working> I could burn 2007.2 again, but I got to the point where I want my phone to actually work
Oct 10 04:15:58 <ljp> soon :)
Oct 10 04:16:14 <ljp> we are near to getting snapshots again
Oct 10 04:20:56 * mwester jump for joy
Oct 10 11:41:18 <FilipLinux4> I'm trying to cross compile a Qt4 app  (navit) to qtext for Neo; building seems to finally work but I get 'libgraphics_qt_qpainter.so: undefined symbol: _ZTI7QWidget' when trying to run on the FR. Anyone got a clue what might be wrong ?
Oct 10 14:11:32 <Tm_T> hmmm
Oct 10 15:33:54 <malik1972> ping
Oct 10 15:36:17 <mwester> Usage: ping [-c count] [-i interval] [ -Q tos ] [hop1 ...] destination
Oct 10 15:38:39 <malik1972> pong
Oct 10 15:38:43 <malik1972> ;-)
Oct 10 15:38:59 <malik1972> no answer to that, hehe
Oct 10 15:40:13 <malik1972> mwester: any news related to deregistering issue
Oct 10 15:41:29 <malik1972> how the hidden atm commands will be implemented?
Oct 10 16:16:03 <wurp2|working> I just installed qtext on my gta01, and I only have 9% space left.  Is there some recommended set of things for me to move off flash to improve it?
Oct 10 16:16:44 <wurp2|working> Or should I just start uninstalling packages I think I can live without?  I'm too lazy to back up SD, install to SD, restore my backup on top of SD
Oct 10 16:18:25 <fale> are there dates for 4.4.2?
Oct 10 16:23:54 <mwester> wurp2|working:  the rootfs needs a trim; I suspect there are things that can be eliminated but I don't know which they might be!
Oct 10 16:37:18 <wurp2|working> mwester: :-/
Oct 10 16:38:04 <mwester> I think GTA01 owners need to come to terms with their SD cards...
Oct 10 16:38:34 <mwester> E_NEFM  (Not Enough Flash Memory)
Oct 10 16:47:13 <wurp2|working> mwester: Yeah, I need to set up some scripts to make it reasonable to install to SD
Oct 10 16:48:00 <mwester> we need a consistent framework for doing SD-based installs.  It's much too ad-hoc right now.
Oct 10 16:48:09 <wurp2|working> i.e. set up a structure that holds my data, and automatically back it up before a burn & restore it afterwards
Oct 10 16:48:13 <mwester> Providing a "tar.gz" file is just too sloppy.
Oct 10 16:48:35 <mwester> I'm leaning toward the technique used for Linux on the Palm devices.
Oct 10 16:49:03 <wurp2|working> I dunno what that is :-)
Oct 10 16:49:31 <mwester> The SD card is a vfat device, contains all your media, etc. files --- also has a kernel image, an initrd, and an ext3 rootfs image.
Oct 10 16:50:04 <mwester> You boot the kernel w/initrd, that mounts the SD card, loopback mounts the ext3 rootfs, and runs.
Oct 10 16:50:07 <wurp2|working> So just multiple partitions?  Makes sense.
Oct 10 16:50:14 <mwester> No, single partition.
Oct 10 16:50:16 <mwester> VFAT
Oct 10 16:50:27 <wurp2|working> Oh, I see now
Oct 10 16:50:48 <wurp2|working> the rootfs is opaque unless you mount it on some compatible OS
Oct 10 16:50:50 <mwester> So you take the SD card out, put it in an SD reader on a windoze box, and copy in the files you need -- mp3, video, and an updated kernel if you want -- it's all the same to the SD card.
Oct 10 16:51:09 <wurp2|working> Of course, I guess I don't want to futz with the rootfs most of the time unless I'm doing it from the device
Oct 10 16:51:20 <mwester> Exactly.  So if you want multiple installs, you just have multiple rootfs ext3 images.
Oct 10 16:51:40 <mwester> If you need to backup a rootfs, put it in a card reader and make a copy.
Oct 10 16:51:43 <wurp2|working> Switching to headphones still doesn't work for me in 4.4.1 :-(
Oct 10 16:52:17 <wurp2|working> As embarassingly demonstrated by Weird Al's 'Polkarama' blasting in my contractor corral a minute ago
Oct 10 16:52:26 <mwester> Of course, it gets even better if instead of using u-boot, you boot up a small kernel from the flash that does the usb gadget stuff so that when you boot from flash the phone appears as a USB mass storage device.
Oct 10 16:52:44 <mwester> Could be worse, Weird Al is ok!
Oct 10 16:53:38 <wurp2|working> I like him... but polka is not generally my cup of tea.
Oct 10 16:54:50 <wurp2|working> Of course, you can do worse than "don't you wish your girlfriend was freaky like me" set to accordian.
Oct 10 16:55:52 <wurp2|working> "when you boot from flash, the phone appears as a USB mass storage device" - do you mean, appears that way to a PC it's plugged into?
Oct 10 16:56:00 <mwester> Yep
Oct 10 16:56:26 <wurp2|working> Yeah, I was hoping for an app to let us do that w/ the neo
Oct 10 16:56:37 <wurp2|working> I'm not sure I see why I want that on flash, particularly
Oct 10 16:56:52 <mwester> The really neat part of all this -- all the infrastructure already exists in OE to build this.  We just need to adapt it to the OM images.
Oct 10 16:57:16 <mwester> You want that on flash because otherwise you can't access the SD card (the rootfs is on it)
Oct 10 16:57:31 <wurp2|working> Oh, sure
Oct 10 16:58:03 <mwester> You can do it from a running image, but only if you partition the SD card -- that's not a bad way to go either, though.
Oct 10 16:58:08 <wurp2|working> I see what you're saying, this is the alternative to booting with USB console and using dfu-util
Oct 10 16:58:17 <mwester> Exactly.
Oct 10 16:58:27 <mwester> Especially since u-boot and all that is GONE with the 03
Oct 10 16:58:36 <wurp2|working> ?!?
Oct 10 16:58:44 <wurp2|working> Is there 03 info floating out there?
Oct 10 16:58:53 <mwester> Honestly, I don't know why even have more than 16MB of flash on any device anymore.
Oct 10 16:58:56 <wurp2|working> I mean, I know a couple of things about target hw
Oct 10 16:59:25 <wurp2|working> except as it gets so cheap that there's no reason not to :-)
Oct 10 16:59:30 <mwester> 03 info has been discussed on the MLs -- hardware and kernel -- also you have to read the commit logs to see some of the details :)
Oct 10 16:59:38 <wurp2|working> ah
Oct 10 16:59:39 <mwester> yeah, but it's also limited.
Oct 10 16:59:45 <wurp2|working> I've seen some hw info
Oct 10 16:59:52 <wurp2|working> or at least, hw rumor
Oct 10 17:00:04 <mwester> We're stuck with 64MB on the 01 -- but it has a captive SD card that can be 8GB in size!!!
Oct 10 17:00:39 <mwester> So just put a small flash for a smart bootloader, and let the user decide how big they want the captive flash card.  Then add an changable SD card as well.
Oct 10 17:00:43 <mwester> (Like the N800 did)
Oct 10 17:01:50 <wurp2|working> sure
Oct 10 17:06:12 <wurp2|working> So, didn't I hear that the earphone detection issue was supposed to be fixed in 4.4.1?
Oct 10 17:23:15 <nyu> wurp2|working: I have that one
Oct 10 17:24:52 <wurp2|working> That defect?
Oct 10 17:24:56 <nyu> yes
Oct 10 17:25:01 <wurp2|working> OK, thanks
Oct 10 17:25:03 <nyu> how do I check which version of qtopia I'm running?
Oct 10 17:25:16 <wurp2|working> Oh, you mean it's broken for you too
Oct 10 17:25:27 <wurp2|working> If you have a web browser, it's 4.4.1
Oct 10 17:25:34 <wurp2|working> Otherwise it's probably 4.3.*
Oct 10 17:25:48 <wurp2|working> There is also a sysinfo app in settings, but that doesn't work very well for me
Oct 10 17:25:54 <nyu> ah, 4.3.2
Oct 10 17:26:00 <nyu> is 4.4.1 stable now?
Oct 10 17:26:04 <wurp2|working> Yeah, that's a known problem in 4.3.2
Oct 10 17:26:07 <wurp2|working> Sort of
Oct 10 17:26:22 <wurp2|working> Some minor bugs with scrolling, and battery charge indicator
Oct 10 17:26:28 <wurp2|working> Nothing else I've noted so far
Oct 10 17:26:43 <nyu> nice
Oct 10 17:26:50 <nyu> can I reuse my config by copying /home over?
Oct 10 17:27:01 <wurp2|working> I have yet to get gprs working consistently or get the gps app to work :-(
Oct 10 17:27:08 <wurp2|working> nyu: Sorry, dunno
Oct 10 17:27:19 <wurp2|working> I didn't try that :-)
Oct 10 17:27:27 <wurp2|working> You are on an FR?
Oct 10 17:27:33 <nyu> uhm I don't like the sound of "daily kernel"
Oct 10 17:27:36 <nyu> wurp2|working: yes
Oct 10 17:27:48 <wurp2|working> nyu: I just didn't switch kernels
Oct 10 17:28:03 <wurp2|working> I'm still using the mwester one that was recommended to me for 4.3.2
Oct 10 17:28:19 <xhr17> hey everyone...
Oct 10 17:28:37 <wurp2|working> Anyone remember the link for setting up GoPhone gprs on Qtopia?
Oct 10 17:28:41 <xhr17> i am trying to get qtopia on my openmoko to play mp3 files...
Oct 10 17:29:06 <nyu> play ogg :-)
Oct 10 17:29:19 <xhr17> i see there is a package that adds mp3 support to the cruxis media engine, but i cant figure out how to install it.
Oct 10 17:29:24 <xhr17> lol, ogg.
Oct 10 17:29:30 <nyu> more quality and no patent crap
Oct 10 17:29:33 <wurp2|working> xhr17: Playing mp3s worked fine out of the box for me
Oct 10 17:29:46 <wurp2|working> xhr17: What's wrong with ogg?
Oct 10 17:30:07 <nyu> okay I'll try 4.4.1 later today
Oct 10 17:30:07 <xhr17> ogg is fine. i use it in all my games.
Oct 10 17:30:15 <nyu> bye
Oct 10 17:30:26 <wurp2|working> later
Oct 10 17:30:27 <xhr17> it is just most my music collection is mp3.
Oct 10 17:30:34 <wurp2|working> xhr17: Me too
Oct 10 17:30:37 <xhr17> playing both is more flexable.
Oct 10 17:30:47 <wurp2|working> yep, that's why I'm glad it does
Oct 10 17:30:50 <wurp2|working> ;-)
Oct 10 17:30:54 <xhr17> what version of qtopia do you use on your openmoko?
Oct 10 17:31:01 <wurp2|working> 4.4.1 now
Oct 10 17:31:03 <wurp2|working> was 4.3.2
Oct 10 17:31:07 <wurp2|working> mp3s worked fine in both
Oct 10 17:31:15 <wurp2|working> well, "fine" is maybe an overstatement
Oct 10 17:31:20 <wurp2|working> but they work in both for me :-)
Oct 10 17:38:34 <xhr17> so i dont see a 4.4.1 image, am i supposed to build it myself?
Oct 10 17:41:45 <xhr17> nvr mind, i found it.
Oct 10 17:49:20 <xhr17> why does the qt extended site suck in konqueror?!
Oct 10 17:50:00 <xhr17> i have to use firefox to download the image. :(
Oct 10 18:33:30 * Tm_T wonders when he gets working gprs and terminal to Qtextended
Oct 10 18:48:06 <wurp2|working> Tm_T: terminal works for me, and I think my only gprs problem is in configuration...
Oct 10 18:49:31 <wurp2|working> Oddly, when I first installed 4.4.1, I couldn't do anything with bluetooth.  Now bt works fine.
Oct 10 18:52:19 <Tm_T> wurp2|working: terminal is unusable with some imortant applications, like irssi (;)
Oct 10 18:53:00 <wurp2|working> Tm_T: Ah, yeah, I haven't seen a terminal on OM that works for something like that :-(
Oct 10 18:53:19 <Tm_T> wurp2|working: xterm
Oct 10 18:53:31 <wurp2|working> And I wouldn't want to chat on my neo, unless I had my bt kbd attached
Oct 10 18:53:42 <wurp2|working> Tm_T: Under debian?  Yeah, I haven't installed it
Oct 10 18:53:50 <wurp2|working> But I figured that one would work :-)
Oct 10 18:53:55 <Tm_T> wurp2|working: no, under Openmoko 2008.x
Oct 10 18:54:06 <Tm_T> but none in Qtextended
Oct 10 18:54:07 <wurp2|working> Tm_T: I didn't know xterm was available under 2008
Oct 10 18:54:18 <Tm_T> it's there (:)
Oct 10 18:54:29 <wurp2|working> I also haven't installed 2008.  Because I hadn't heard anything good about it until maybe 2 weeks ago.
Oct 10 18:55:00 <wurp2|working> I've been 2007.2 & qtopia, with occasional excursions into FSO or underground
Oct 10 18:55:27 <wurp2|working> and crippled versions of SHR... crippled enough that basically they were just broken 2007.2 installs
Oct 10 19:06:49 <xhr17> can i symlink /home/root/Documents to /media/mmcblk0?
Oct 10 19:12:07 <xhr17> hehe, yes, i can.
Oct 10 19:12:11 <xhr17> mp3s work now.
Oct 10 19:12:16 <xhr17> seem to be a bit laggy.
Oct 10 19:14:11 <malik1972> lpotter: ping
Oct 10 19:14:16 <xhr17> and there is like, no bass.
Oct 10 19:14:27 * xhr17 slaps malik1972 around with a small 50lb Unix Manual
Oct 10 19:15:49 <malik1972> xhr17: are you okay?:-)
Oct 10 19:16:00 <xhr17> hehe, i'm ok.
Oct 10 19:16:02 <xhr17> but you...
Oct 10 19:16:10 <xhr17> you just got abused
Oct 10 19:16:16 <xhr17> :P
Oct 10 19:16:20 * Tm_T slaps xhr17 with MS DOS 5.0 User Guide & Reference
Oct 10 19:16:42 <Tm_T> glad I always have this one at hand
Oct 10 19:16:49 <malik1972> i only understand slapstick
Oct 10 19:17:37 * xhr17 slaps malik1972 around with a slapstick
Oct 10 19:17:43 <malik1972> xhr17 & Tm_T: any news concerning bug fixes of qtext 4.4?
Oct 10 19:18:16 <Tm_T> malik1972: sorry nothing I can think of
Oct 10 19:18:40 <malik1972> ok
Oct 10 19:19:33 <malik1972> for me there are 4-5 high priority fixes
Oct 10 19:51:16 <Tm_T> malik1972: what are they?
Oct 10 20:04:55 <lpotter> bugs are getting fixed
Oct 10 20:05:27 <Tm_T> lpotter: how relieving (;)
Oct 10 20:08:45 <nyu> where does qtopia store contacts?
Oct 10 20:09:07 <Tm_T> people still use Qtopia?
Oct 10 20:10:29 <wurp2|working> nyu: Prolly in ~/Applications...
Oct 10 20:11:05 <malik1972> lpotter: sure, do you have a time horizon for a bug fixed release?
Oct 10 20:11:16 <malik1972> my favorite bugs:
Oct 10 20:11:23 <malik1972> 1. echo
Oct 10 20:11:36 <malik1972> 2. deregistering aka calypso
Oct 10 20:11:55 <malik1972> 3. keyboard messed
Oct 10 20:12:25 <malik1972> 4. import of sim/telephone contacts
Oct 10 20:12:29 <wurp2|working> crappy media playback should be pretty high on that list
Oct 10 20:12:37 <malik1972> wurp2|working: no
Oct 10 20:12:38 <wurp2|working> I would put it #3, personally
Oct 10 20:13:08 <malik1972> i would concentrate on gsm/sms/suspend/resume
Oct 10 20:13:24 <wurp2|working> I agree gsm is higher
Oct 10 20:13:27 <leinir> Surely working phone functionality is more important on a phone than media playback?
Oct 10 20:13:38 <wurp2|working> Are there bugs in suspend/resume on qtopia?  It works pretty great for me
Oct 10 20:13:43 <wurp2|working> leinir: Hence #3
Oct 10 20:14:12 <leinir> keyboard is a vital part of phone functionality, really... as is import of sim/phone contacts ;)
Oct 10 20:14:13 <malik1972> lpotter: what is your favorite feature?;-)
Oct 10 20:14:32 <nyu> Tm_T: erm, at least I suppose many people in #qtopia do?
Oct 10 20:14:42 <wurp2|working> leinir: The keyboard works...  It is sometimes buggy.  Media playback never works well enough to be worth listening to.
Oct 10 20:14:56 <wurp2|working> import of sim/phone contacts is definitely not essential
Oct 10 20:14:59 <nyu> wurp2|working: it's strange, grep didn't reveal anything.  are name strings obfuscated?
Oct 10 20:15:17 <Tm_T> nyu: you mean Qtextended?
Oct 10 20:15:25 <malik1972> wurp2|working: someone wrote to use ogg files did you tried that?
Oct 10 20:15:37 <nyu> there's ~/Applications/addressbook/ but it's empty
Oct 10 20:15:49 <wurp2|working> malik1972: Hrm, actually I didn't.  The commentary I saw about ogg files was someone claiming mp3s just didn't work
Oct 10 20:15:54 <wurp2|working> I will try ogg, thanks
Oct 10 20:16:00 <nyu> Tm_T: I use the images for freerunner, not sure what flavor is that
Oct 10 20:16:12 <malik1972> wurp2|working: will also try
Oct 10 20:16:17 <wurp2|working> nyu: It may be in Applications/Qtopia/qtopia_db.sqlite
Oct 10 20:16:22 <lpotter> malik1972: i am partial to rotation, as i did that
Oct 10 20:16:38 <Tm_T> nyu: see http://www.qtextended.org (;)
Oct 10 20:17:20 <malik1972> lpotter: whats wrong with rotation?
Oct 10 20:18:00 <malik1972> lpotter: maybe one remark on rotation, i didnt expect it that way
Oct 10 20:18:39 <lpotter> what way is that?
Oct 10 20:19:34 <lpotter> malik1972: nothings wrong with rotation except the cruft on the display 
Oct 10 20:19:38 <malik1972> lpotter: i expected a configuration menu where i could tell qtextended "rotate 90 degree in that direction" and some kind of possibility to quick change
Oct 10 20:20:13 <malik1972> maybe from an icon on the "toolbar"
Oct 10 20:21:12 <malik1972> this is much more natural for me
Oct 10 20:21:27 <lpotter> its from an icon in settings :)
Oct 10 20:21:35 <malik1972> for me its the same decision every time to rotate in one direction and back
Oct 10 20:21:57 <malik1972> hehe
Oct 10 20:22:04 <wurp2|working> malik1972: Just put the phone the way you want it oriented, then touch the arrow pointing up
Oct 10 20:22:17 <wurp2|working> malik1972: To me, that's much easier than the OM way
Oct 10 20:22:33 <malik1972> i dont remember the om way
Oct 10 20:22:51 <malik1972> i only remember the one from my zaurus
Oct 10 20:23:02 <mwester> Oh goodness, all we need is an API to cause rotation -- and then one of you guys write the code that detects a double-tap from the accelerometers, and then double-tap the phone on the site that is to be the new bottom.
Oct 10 20:23:24 <mwester> Anyway, I just wanted to say that registration works fine for me, as does suspend/resume... :p
Oct 10 20:23:28 <wurp2|working> malik1972: well, GUI OM way is that you can only switch between vert & horiz.  I can never remember which way is the horiz setting
Oct 10 20:23:42 <wurp2|working> Or using xrandr to set it by typing in the right #
Oct 10 20:23:58 <malik1972> mwester: new kernel for registration fix?
Oct 10 20:24:05 <mwester> Not a kernel thing
Oct 10 20:24:12 <malik1972> wurp2|working: no
Oct 10 20:24:26 <mwester> Each different distro will have to patch it in their own way... :(
Oct 10 20:24:32 <malik1972> wurp2|working: xrand -o 0,1,2,3
Oct 10 20:24:35 <wurp2|working> malik1972: I didn't ask a question
Oct 10 20:24:48 <mwester> This is the cost of lacking any layering in the various APIs.
Oct 10 20:24:51 <wurp2|working> malik1972: That's exactly what I said
Oct 10 20:25:07 <malik1972> wurp2|working: but its was easy
Oct 10 20:25:11 <nyu> wurp2|working: thanks, seems like it
Oct 10 20:25:20 <nyu> although it's a quite cryptic format
Oct 10 20:25:54 <wurp2|working> malik1972: Easier to type in xrandr -o & the correct # from memory than to turn the device the way you want it pointed & tap whichever arrow points up?
Oct 10 20:26:32 <malik1972> wurp2|working: i mean there is no need for rotating in all directions
Oct 10 20:26:43 <mwester> Yes there is.
Oct 10 20:27:07 <malik1972> but not every time
Oct 10 20:27:14 <mwester> When I'm plunging head-first from an airplane, I need to be able to read the coordiantes from the GPS, as I hold the phone with the GPS antenna to the sky.
Oct 10 20:27:24 <malik1972> for me its landscape and back
Oct 10 20:27:42 <malik1972> hmm
Oct 10 20:28:43 <malik1972> mwester: registering works for you, what did you changed?
Oct 10 20:28:44 <wurp2|working> I think there is
Oct 10 20:28:57 <wurp2|working> The default OM way to rotate doesn't let me plug in the usb cord
Oct 10 20:29:09 <wurp2|working> The other way makes it hard to plug in the headphones
Oct 10 20:29:32 <mwester> Just for curiosity sake, the 4.4.1 qt extended source, when configured for the neo is 1.46 Million non-comment, non-blank lines of code.
Oct 10 20:29:37 <malik1972> mwester: and what about accelerometers and qtextended, is there some code?
Oct 10 20:29:44 <mwester> 10,846 source files
Oct 10 20:29:53 <wurp2|working> mwester: wow
Oct 10 20:30:01 <mwester> 330,000 methods/functions
Oct 10 20:30:11 <malik1972> :-)
Oct 10 20:30:11 <mwester> 165,000 classes/types
Oct 10 20:30:33 <wurp2|working> Average of 16 types per file?  Ouch.
Oct 10 20:30:53 <mwester> This thing is a monster -- just getting a clean compile of this is an amazing feat; it has to take a lot of coordination to get all the bits from the different developers to work all at the same time.
Oct 10 20:30:57 <malik1972> did they avoided comments or did you dropped them out of your calculation;-)
Oct 10 20:31:17 <mwester> hehe!  696,000 lines of comments.
Oct 10 20:31:24 <wurp2|working> comments corrupt the purity of the code
Oct 10 20:31:31 <wurp2|working> as do blank lines
Oct 10 20:32:06 <malik1972> mwester: nevertheless you did it
Oct 10 20:32:12 <mwester> malik1972:  re: registering, I patched (in a very ugly way) qt extended source.  re: accellerometers, there is no api yet.
Oct 10 20:32:48 <malik1972> mwester: is it too ugly for lpotter to include it or not?
Oct 10 20:32:51 <mwester> malik1972:  I didn't do anything, I'm just taking apart what the folks at Trolltech built. :)
Oct 10 20:33:30 <malik1972> lpotter: will you include that patch?
Oct 10 20:34:03 <mwester> My opinion?  It is too ugly to be part of the normal code.   If lpotter feels that it will take too much time to "do it right" (the problem violates the structure of the code right now), then perhaps a device-specific patch temporarily may be a reasonable solution.
Oct 10 20:34:26 <malik1972> okay
Oct 10 20:35:02 <nyu> okay, so I suppose if I copy the /home from 4.3.2 to 4.4.1 it'll keep my old settings?
Oct 10 20:35:04 <malik1972> i didnt used the freerunner for some days now, my old nokia 2600 rules
Oct 10 20:35:10 <mwester> The bad way to fix it is easy to do: just always disable deep sleep.  But that means that everyone will suffer poor battery life needlessly.  The challenge then is to detect when the bouncing starts, and to carefully disable deep sleep.  
Oct 10 20:35:12 <malik1972> nyu: no
Oct 10 20:35:48 <mwester> And I've not even attempted to add code to attempt to re-enable deep sleep from time to time, because at the moment I don't know what conditions might make it so that we could use deep sleep again.
Oct 10 20:35:52 <nyu> malik1972: ouch
Oct 10 20:35:59 <malik1972> mwester: with other words w do not know what causes the bouncing
Oct 10 20:36:01 <nyu> malik1972: is there some tool to extract my contact list?
Oct 10 20:36:07 <mwester> The power differential is significant between "big sleep" and "deep sleep"...
Oct 10 20:36:17 <malik1972> nyu: sure sqlite3
Oct 10 20:36:25 <mwester> malik1972:  That's correct, we do not know what is broken.
Oct 10 20:36:31 <nyu> malik1972: ah, good
Oct 10 20:36:37 <nyu> malik1972: no auto-migration though?
Oct 10 20:37:01 <malik1972> nyu: you may try it, but i do not see any advantage
Oct 10 20:37:20 <malik1972> nyu: the installed applications dont work
Oct 10 20:37:28 <nyu> malik1972: what do you mean?
Oct 10 20:37:38 <nyu> 4.4.1 isn't usable?
Oct 10 20:38:09 <malik1972> nyu: if you installed some extra app in 4.3.2 they will not run in 4.4.2
Oct 10 20:38:34 <nyu> ah, no I didn't
Oct 10 20:38:36 <malik1972> mwester: you say its broken. it worked before?
Oct 10 20:38:53 <nyu> malik1972: I just want my contacts to work.  I suppose I'll have to manually add them?
Oct 10 20:39:30 <malik1972> nyu: i imported them via vcf file and the documents list
Oct 10 20:39:53 <nyu> malik1972: vcf?
Oct 10 20:40:09 <mwester> Unknown actually.  It did not exhibit this same problem in very early Moko firmware for the GSM, but it's interesting to note that neither did the GSM enter Deep Sleep in those versions.  So for all we know, the chip never did work in Deep Sleep, even for Texas Instruments.  I'm just assuming that they did test it, and that deep sleep did work for TI at some point, even if it never worked for OM
Oct 10 20:41:24 <malik1972> nyu: you may try to export your contacts from a regular phone and import them in qtext 4.4
Oct 10 20:41:39 <wurp2|working> mwester: It seems to me the first pass policy on re-enabling deep sleep should be just to decide how many re-registration cycles are acceptable per hour or day or whatever, and try deep sleep again that often.
Oct 10 20:41:48 <malik1972> mwester: really complicated stuff
Oct 10 20:42:14 <nyu> malik1972: they're currently in 4.3.2 (an rsync snapshot of the whole filesystem) + sim card
Oct 10 20:42:23 <wurp2|working> Obviously later you might learn that it's related to switching cell towers, or tower strength, or whatever, but at least there is some way for the device to start doing deep sleep again that way
Oct 10 20:42:27 <nyu> malik1972: I just want to recover the part that is not in the sim
Oct 10 20:42:56 <wurp2|working> nyu: I would just try copying the data files over
Oct 10 20:43:04 <mwester> wurp2|working:  That's the direction I went in the "proof-of-concept" patch.  It determes a cycle by a re-register within 10 seconds of loss, and will only permit 3 of those before disabling deep sleep.
Oct 10 20:43:10 <mwester> There needs to be more logic, IMO.
Oct 10 20:43:10 <wurp2|working> I wouldn't think bad data files would cause permanent breakage
Oct 10 20:43:21 <wurp2|working> Just restore from backup if that doesn't work
Oct 10 20:43:40 <nyu> okay
Oct 10 20:43:46 <Tm_T>  hi hoo
Oct 10 20:44:03 <wurp2|working> Of course, I should be clear that I dunno any more than you if bad data files would fubar qtopia somehow :-)
Oct 10 20:44:12 <malik1972> nyu: the problem is that before there were 2 databases, one for sim, one for telephone. now the sim list is loaded on the top
Oct 10 20:44:30 <Tm_T> interesting, no wlan no gprs
Oct 10 20:44:54 <nyu> malik1972: ah, like in openmoko?
Oct 10 20:45:05 <malik1972> nyu: dont know about om
Oct 10 20:46:00 <lpotter> mwester: how many lines of translated strings?
Oct 10 20:46:28 <lpotter> :)
Oct 10 20:46:34 * mwester scratches his head and wonders how much scripting it will take to compute that one.
Oct 10 20:46:47 <lpotter> tr(
Oct 10 20:54:16 <wurp2|working> I found my new favorite Qtopia background image
Oct 10 20:54:19 <wurp2|working> http://www.boingboing.net/images/rydenobammmm.jpg
Oct 10 21:08:12 <Tm_T> I made my own: http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/mokoback_01.jpg
Oct 10 21:09:02 <nyu> malik1972: fsck, it says the home database is corrupt
Oct 10 21:09:18 <nyu> malik1972: how does this vcf method you mentioned work?
Oct 10 21:11:23 <malik1972> nyu: i have one adressbook file on my desktop, on my zaurus and on my freerunner
Oct 10 21:12:12 <malik1972> nyu: do you have a normal mobile phone? check if there is an option like "export as vcf"
Oct 10 21:12:50 <nyu> malik1972: I don't understand;  I'm trying to migrate contacts from one version of qtopia to the other
Oct 10 21:13:06 <nyu> can I export as vcf from qtopia 4.3.2?
Oct 10 21:13:56 <malik1972> nyu: i dont know
Oct 10 21:14:08 <nyu> :-/
Oct 10 21:14:13 <nyu> I guess I'll do it by hand
Oct 10 21:14:57 <malik1972> nyu: how did you handled it before on your phones, manually?
Oct 10 21:26:57 <lpotter>   /me starts testing the first build of 4.4.1 neo sdk
Oct 10 21:27:09 <lpotter> dumb space
Oct 10 21:28:29 <wurp2|working> Tm_T: I wanted something to show off the near-photographic resolution a bit
Oct 10 21:28:54 <Tm_T> wurp2|working: ah
Oct 10 21:30:43 <nyu> malik1972: yes
Oct 10 21:31:08 <nyu> malik1972: uhm actually, I mostly used the SIM for storing contacts
Oct 10 21:32:36 <malik1972> nyu: that maybe a problem. think of editing all your contacts on your linux box and importing them into qt extended or whatever
Oct 10 21:35:40 <malik1972> nyu: the columns in the db have changed, you may try to manipulate the sql db
Oct 10 21:39:41 <malik1972> nyu: maybe you can wait and lpotter helps you out with a release fix;-)
Oct 10 21:45:01 * mwester wonders why everyone waits for Trolltech to make a fix; the source code for both old and new versions is downloadable.
Oct 10 21:46:06 * BabelO agree with mwester
Oct 10 21:58:14 <lpotter> there is a Qtoia task called dbmigrate which gets run when qtopia starts, perhpas its not working
Oct 10 21:58:57 <nyu> what does dbmigrate do?
Oct 10 22:00:36 * mwester bets that it migrates the db.
Oct 10 22:02:44 <lpotter> its supposed to
Oct 10 22:02:48 <lpotter> i think
Oct 10 22:07:21 <Tm_T> you think?
Oct 10 22:13:04 <lpotter> ya, who know what it really does. :)
Oct 10 22:15:48 <lpotter> certainly would think it would migrate the old db to a new one
Oct 10 22:19:33 <Tm_T> lpotter: (:)
Oct 10 22:23:36 <wurp2|working> nyu: It sounds like what he's saying is that putting your old home contents in your 4.4.1 home and restarting should import your contacts
Oct 10 22:23:55 <wurp2|working> mwester: But are there instructions on how to build the qtopia code?
Oct 10 22:26:15 <mwester> Yep.
Oct 10 22:28:17 <nyu> wurp2|working: let's see...
Oct 10 22:59:20 <wurp2|working> Time to go home
Oct 10 23:19:03 <nyu> great, earphone works now
Oct 10 23:43:36 <lpotter> :)
Oct 11 00:47:15 <wurp2|gone> nyu: Earphones work for you on 4.4.1?
Oct 11 00:47:21 <wurp2|gone> They didn't for me.  I'll try again.
Oct 11 00:49:53 <wurp2|gone> It works great now.  I don't know what was going on earlier.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 11 02:59:57 2008