**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 03 11:01:27 2009 Mar 03 13:13:01 morning Mar 03 13:56:56 no more qtopia ! Mar 03 13:57:01 http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/news/qt-software-discontinues-qt-extended Mar 03 13:57:25 CVirus: time to fork? Mar 03 13:57:39 wtf are they doing ! Mar 03 13:58:24 jreznik: I wish I was fit enough to fork it Mar 03 13:59:27 or better word than "fork" is "continue"... Mar 03 13:59:28 wtf is nokia thinking Mar 03 14:00:05 I really don't like Java and Android hype Mar 03 14:03:27 i asked yesterday but the channel has been dead since then, so perhaps someone else will know now Mar 03 14:03:39 I believe that qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/painting/qwindowsurface_qws.cpp is leaking memory and wondered if anyone could explain to me why its not? Mar 03 14:03:44 memlock = (lockId == -1 ? 0 : new QWSLock(lockId)); Mar 03 14:22:42 I think it could be actually benefit for qtopia. The development was in my opinion very closed. I mean there was no public git repositories with lastest snapshot, there was no public bugzilla. Mar 03 14:35:24 joejoe: I hoped that after Qt is going to be more open (finally!!!), Qt E will be opened too and not terminated... but I understand it - develop more stacks in one company... but why shutdown the best one? :D Mar 03 14:35:37 let's hope there will be some kind of roadmap what features will be backported to qt. Mar 03 14:36:33 so we can see what parts of qt extended would need community maintenance Mar 03 15:48:44 Hmm... i'm rather interested in seeing what will happen now that Qt Extended has been discontinued... :) Mar 03 15:50:27 probably the same thing that's happened in the past couple of months. :p Mar 03 15:50:31 I'm interested finding out which parts of Qt Extended will be incroporated in Qt core Mar 03 15:51:16 FilipLinux4BE: That's what i'm wondering too :) Mar 03 15:51:32 it's question which part we need in Qt core? I'd like to see running some Qt UI on top of freesmartphone.org stack Mar 03 15:51:36 And I still think that even today it is the best choice for the FR. Mar 03 15:52:22 Closest to a 'finished product': most reliable, best battery life, fast suspend/resume.... Mar 03 15:52:28 jreznik: i'd be interested in seeing what can come out of fso + gallium3d + a simplistic, qt-based windowing system... :) Mar 03 15:52:51 *nods* Yeah - there's some good progress in other areas, but they're just not really there yet :) Mar 03 15:53:46 FilipLinux4BE: yes, for FR it's still best one stack... so I waited for 4.5 and ... Mar 03 15:53:46 leinir: indeed, and that progress in most areas will make QtE even better as well (like battery-life, boot-time, ...) Mar 03 15:54:27 *nods* :) Mar 03 15:54:58 well, nobody is going to stop us from using/improving it. Mar 03 15:55:18 FilipLinux4BE: yes, +1! Mar 03 15:55:38 but it should be more cordinate effort, I'd like to help with it Mar 03 15:55:45 well only thing that might stops one, is not to know which parts go to qt... Mar 03 15:56:10 i.e. reduce redundancy... :) Mar 03 15:56:11 I think most of the hackers/dev were waiting for a 4.5 release (well, at least that's the case for me) Mar 03 15:57:00 mootuu: they promised that qt will be more open - and repository will be public available, so you can continue work on it and once you see they are moving it to qt repo, you can send patch with improvements Mar 03 15:57:09 I'm currently using a 4.4.3 snapshot (23/2/2009) on my FR. Mar 03 15:57:31 jreznik: but I don't think they will maintain an open repo for QtE Mar 03 15:58:07 FilipLinux4BE: I was waiting for public repositories - it's bad when you don't know what's happening behind closed doors so you don't have motivation do and probably duplicate work Mar 03 15:58:28 indeed. Mar 03 15:58:31 jreznik, that's exactly my point.. Mar 03 15:59:28 i hope they'll try to communicate a bit about the issue... Mar 03 15:59:47 So, action point 1, register it as aproject on SF/Savannah/... ? Mar 03 16:00:03 github? ;) Mar 03 16:00:24 FilipLinux4BE: SF after latest changes is bad :( Mar 03 16:00:33 what are the active QtE targets in use today, besides FR (and N8x0) ? Mar 03 16:00:40 google code? github, bitbucket for repo Mar 03 16:00:40 yeah sf has *really* gone bad.. Mar 03 16:01:01 greenphone Mar 03 16:01:26 and some inoffical hacks Mar 03 16:01:30 greenphone still active ? Any idea on how many devices 'in the wild' ? Mar 03 16:01:36 no :) Mar 03 16:02:08 let's roll a dice or two to approximate the number ;) Mar 03 16:02:10 FilipLinux4BE: I think only few... but I liked that green part of this phone, was so extraordinary :D Mar 03 16:02:36 ah, but a bucket of green paint is not that expensive ;-) Mar 03 16:02:57 i wonder how they will proceed with qt jambi... Mar 03 16:03:12 as it will be "given to the community" afaiu.. Mar 03 16:03:25 so might be an approach for qt extended/qtopia too Mar 03 16:03:47 and maybe a convergence between FSO for the lower layers and QtE for the top layers is an interesting path Mar 03 16:04:10 mootuu: hmm, it should be nice if qt soft continues to support web, some machine for repo etc. Mar 03 16:04:43 jreznik, yeah well i think getting a repo and webspace for an open source project is not that critical.. Mar 03 16:04:56 so they will support community but not working on it, or our RH style - they support community, some members are paid but it's not as much official Mar 03 16:05:31 mootuu: no, but it's nice to have some help when they fire their child from house :D Mar 03 16:05:40 hehe Mar 03 16:05:46 any clue about the QtE people ? I supose they will be relocated into the Qt Core dev team ? Mar 03 16:06:15 well they want to rip parts out of the childs body before they let it go :D Mar 03 16:06:31 maybe should consider reverting the name change, back to qtopia. At least is makes this channel back on topic Mar 03 16:06:53 FilipLinux4BE: or maybe startover with another name Mar 03 16:06:59 well i guess qtopia is still a trademark Mar 03 16:07:07 yes, avoid qt in name Mar 03 16:07:09 don't know how nokia would think about such things.. Mar 03 16:07:16 opie :D Mar 03 16:07:38 mootuu: it's different product... Mar 03 16:08:10 FSOpia Mar 03 16:09:23 we will need more attractive name :) all hype about Android is cause it's funny name (and Google of course :D) Mar 03 16:09:39 ok, Andropia Mar 03 16:09:58 FilipLinux4BE: lol :) Mar 03 16:10:07 But I think the product is more important than the name Mar 03 16:10:22 naming is quite important nowadays Mar 03 16:10:36 buzz and hype means more people and more contributors :) Mar 03 16:10:43 FilipLinux4BE: yes, I know, but the name is first step to be succesfull... noone want KDPERDCz v. 2.34.1 Mar 03 16:11:11 mootuu: you are right, unfortunately :( it's about hype... Mar 03 16:11:29 correct, but the best publicity is having the best software stack for mobiles. Make sure everyone want to put it on his FR/Greenphone/whatsoever Mar 03 16:12:01 Omnitopia :O Mar 03 16:12:05 Android on FR still has a long way to go. Mar 03 16:12:14 QtE is useable today. Mar 03 16:12:57 And I ru it on top of debian, giving me the choice to install plenty of other (cmdline) packages and tools. Mar 03 16:13:16 don't see this happening with Android anytime soon. Mar 03 16:13:57 I think, that very famous is nickname "Brokenmoko" for the Openmoko as piece of hardware. So why not to use this name also for distro? (-; Mar 03 16:14:24 I would prefer 'FixedMoko' for a distro Mar 03 16:15:50 MokoMojo Mar 03 16:16:01 'IDAFIJWMPTWmoko' Mar 03 16:16:17 don't forget the other targets as well ... Mar 03 16:16:30 that where omni comes in Mar 03 16:19:52 as I like spanish -> llamame (it means (I hope) call me) :D Mar 03 16:20:04 Kawaiiopia Mar 03 16:21:38 anybody already took a close look at the latest snapshots, with regards to licensing ? There is a top-level GPL license, but might there be any non-free parts in it ? Mar 03 16:22:36 they should release it all as LGPL to give it to community Mar 03 16:24:33 mootuu: omnitopia.[com|org|net] all taken Mar 03 16:25:08 :( Mar 03 16:25:39 omniphonia Mar 03 16:25:49 i remember a futurama episode where they realize that only one single name was not registered as trademark ... Mar 03 16:25:57 popplers Mar 03 16:27:50 Two... Mar 03 16:27:52 * mwester remembers popplers. Mar 03 16:27:54 The other was tasteicles ;) Mar 03 16:28:03 yum. Mar 03 16:28:47 yum install popplers :) Mar 03 16:28:51 hehe long time ago Mar 03 16:32:37 mwester: did you plan on releasing any new QtE images ? Mar 03 16:37:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_hosting_facilities Mar 03 16:42:32 FilipLinux4BE: ? Mar 03 16:44:40 yes Mar 03 18:32:57 http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/news/qt-software-discontinues-qt-extended Mar 03 18:34:53 ljp: any hints on which 'selected features will be migrated into the Qt framework' Mar 03 18:34:56 ljp: :'( Mar 03 18:35:35 ljp: i hope your job isn't being 'discontinued' Mar 03 18:35:56 ljp: Yeah... So... are you able to tell us when you'll be releasing the qt based maemo the freerunner? ;) Mar 03 18:36:22 FilipLinux4BE: so far only a few Mar 03 18:36:34 nope. just working on Qt now Mar 03 18:37:02 ok then :) Mar 03 18:37:13 Is there a list of the stuff that'll go into Qt proper, or is that a TBA? :) Mar 03 18:37:17 chouimat|: good news is that it will always be open source, and we can imprive it ourselves Mar 03 18:37:25 TBA Mar 03 18:37:38 *nodnods* Yup! That's what i thought about it too :) Mar 03 18:37:55 A lot of people seem to have a sort of "OHNOES!" knee-jerk reaction, but... it makes pretty good sense to me, really :) Mar 03 18:38:02 I have been working on QTImeZone Mar 03 18:38:03 Right, TBA is ok with me ;) Mar 03 18:38:30 Hmm... QTMIZone... there's an idea for a program right there ;) Mar 03 18:40:20 ljp: so the 4.4.3 will be released in 2 days? Mar 03 18:41:54 ljp: current snapshot (20090303), is that close to what is going to be released ? Or can we expect important changes in the next couple of days ? Mar 03 18:42:54 no imprtant changes Mar 03 18:43:47 Hmm... i'm still using a really old copy of qte (the 20081221 snap, i think) Mar 03 18:46:19 I wish I could release some of the experimental things we had developed Mar 03 18:46:38 interesting stuff? Mar 03 18:47:07 ljp: Looking forward to when it gets shoved into Qt ;) Mar 03 18:47:26 well, some things will, like animation framework Mar 03 18:47:40 *nods* Kinetic stuff? Mar 03 18:47:49 other stuff is shelved Mar 03 18:48:22 lpotter: hey Mar 03 18:48:24 hi Mar 03 18:48:30 hi Mar 03 18:48:38 i hope you are fine Mar 03 18:49:10 Hmm... the shelved stuff would seem prime candidates for a random qt labs release... such a section is really needed ;) Mar 03 18:49:13 yep. a-ok Mar 03 18:49:38 As they put it in Rocky Horror: One from the vaults ;) Mar 03 18:49:41 ljp: i read that qtextended is dead Mar 03 18:50:11 well, as far as Nokia/TT is concerned, it is for now Mar 03 18:50:16 qte is dead, long live qte ;) Mar 03 18:50:28 but, it is open source so we can improve it Mar 03 18:50:29 ljp: will it be integrated in qt? Mar 03 18:50:40 somethings will Mar 03 18:50:44 ljp: do you have any clue on the legal status of the name 'qtopia' and QtE for the 'orphaned' GPL'ed source ? Mar 03 18:51:05 FilipLinux4BE: still trademarked, probably Mar 03 18:51:34 so a continuation will probably require a name-change ? Mar 03 18:51:34 I tried to get them to release it under the LGPL too, but no go on that Mar 03 18:51:53 FilipLinux4BE: possibly Mar 03 18:52:30 ljp: and what about your job? Mar 03 18:52:48 still got it :) Mar 03 18:53:28 ljp: thats fine but on what you will working thereafter Mar 03 18:53:52 ljp: maybe some community pressure should help with LGPL releasing, shouldn't? like we are interested in development, like gift to community? Mar 03 18:54:37 business sucks Mar 03 18:54:42 jreznik: not sure. Nokia probably doesn't want to 'sponsor' competitors Mar 03 18:54:48 BluesLee: on Qt! Mar 03 18:56:15 ljp: okay Mar 03 18:56:35 FilipLinux4BE: few freerunners are not dangerous for such a big company... Mar 03 18:56:38 but we will have a final release:-) Mar 03 18:57:31 jreznik: not the freerunners, but if they release as LGPL , anyy competitor (think Motorola, Samsung, ...) can use the current QtE as a base without problem Mar 03 18:58:57 ya, like Apple too! Mar 03 19:04:38 FilipLinux4BE: they can use right now too - but open source is difficult to understand for managers... even here in Red Hat :( Mar 03 19:05:25 with current license they are obliged to release the version they adapt as opensource as well. Mar 03 19:06:25 and all future version as well. With LGPL it is much eaier to keep parts 'closed' Mar 03 19:07:15 jreznik: I know ... I'm starting to be tired of fork and exec for plugins Mar 03 19:08:43 FilipLinux4BE: you can keep part closed if you use GPL stuff and it's simple you just need to make sure you don't link with the gpl stuff ... thing like fork and exec can be used Mar 03 19:10:21 chouimat|work: yes, but fork&exec are like 'cheats' to get around a legal issue. And those are expensive operations (on a mobile) Mar 03 19:10:52 FilipLinux4BE: it's what the FSF told us to use Mar 03 19:11:31 hmm, didn't FSF in the first place suggest to release *all* as GPL ? Mar 03 19:11:55 FilipLinux4BE: yes but some of their lawyers understand the real world ;) Mar 03 19:22:44 * chouimat|work wonders if he tries gentoo for freerunner Mar 03 19:23:01 bah! Mar 03 19:23:12 go ahead, try it! Mar 03 19:23:20 ljp: Mar 03 19:23:59 hope distcc is working... Mar 03 21:52:13 Q: who is responsile for setting /Hardware/UsbGadget/cableConnected ? Mar 03 22:18:09 qpe in server/neohardware.cpp Mar 03 22:18:38 signal gets generated from teh keyboard handler, as it comes in there Mar 03 22:18:54 err devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp Mar 03 22:39:44 lpotter: thx. Doesn't seem to work using recent kernel... is it using a sysfs path for detecting connect/disconnect ? Mar 03 22:40:07 it does detect corectly the inital state when starting, but doesn't notice changes Mar 03 23:03:01 well, they might have changed things like they do Mar 03 23:07:49 a lot of sysfs paths have been moved around... Mar 04 00:08:49 lpotter: FYI: just tried other kernel (2.6.29-rc2) with 4.4.3 snapshot, and now UsbGadgetcableConnected is triggered correclty. Mar 04 00:10:51 oh ok Mar 04 00:14:57 I am using Freerunner. Has anyone try to fix the power source status in power management settings? Since when I boot up the device using only battery, while the power source still shows "Plugged In". Any help? Mar 04 00:15:25 KaraDog: what kernel & what QtE versions ? Mar 04 00:16:15 I did pathc 4.4.3 snapshot to use kernel >2.6.28 sysfs changes (battery indicator etc) Mar 04 00:16:48 qt-extended snapshop 20090224, built by myself. Using rootfs and kernel from openmoko testing 20090120 Mar 04 00:17:25 so the kernel is 2.6.24 Mar 04 00:18:03 or should I change to kernel 2.6.28? Mar 04 00:18:26 2.6.28 is supposed to solve several issues (power managment, wifi) Mar 04 00:19:03 Ok. did you commit your patch to the snapshot?? Mar 04 00:19:08 but as a result several sysfs path have changed. Needing changes in NeoBattery.cpp and NeoHardware.cpp Mar 04 00:20:37 thanks for the clue. I will sort it out later. Mar 04 00:21:02 just rebuild and installed. Looks ok, but need more testing. If it proves to be stable, I'll post an update/patch/image Mar 04 00:22:01 cool. thank you. Leave home to office now. see you later. I am happy to get the community here. Mar 04 02:06:50 Just curious does qtopia have a rss parser? Mar 04 02:09:00 icefox: no Mar 04 02:09:19 poking around in the code, looking for useful stuff to save :) Mar 04 02:17:57 I wrote one for qtopia 4.1 Mar 04 02:18:12 not sure if I ever released it though Mar 04 02:18:41 I am looking to write one for Arora Mar 04 02:19:09 maybe it could go on labs? Mar 04 02:22:16 hmm.. perhaps Mar 04 02:22:22 if I can find it Mar 04 02:37:45 oh dear. its for qtopia 2 or qt 3 Mar 04 02:39:40 thats ok Mar 04 02:39:46 some place to start Mar 04 02:40:01 Guess I would want to redo it with the xmlstreamreader Mar 04 02:43:47 heh #include **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 04 02:59:57 2009